Yamauchi responds to GT5 controversy

By Ellie Gibson Published 25 August, 2010

Removing flags possible, but "regrettable".

Gran Turismo Kazunori Yamauchi has responded to the row over one of the tracks in his latest game.

Earlier this week, it emerged that officials from the city of Siena were hacked off about the representation of the Piazza del Campo in Gran Turismo 5.

The piazza is the venue for the Palio di Siena, a giant horsey race which takes place every year. Riders from 17 different districts participate, each wearing unique flags and colours. The Siena officials weren't happy with these flags appearing in footage released of the game.

So will they end up in the finished product? "We can remove them in an instant," Yamauchi has written on his Twitter page (translated by Kotaku).

He doesn't sound too keen, mind: "Erasing them is somewhat regrettable."

Sony has yet to say whether the flags will be removed. Better make a decision quick - Gran Turismo 5 is out in Europe on 3rd November.

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (57) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • VandelayIndustries #1 2 years ago

    - 1 for pettiness.

  • Rodchenko #2 2 years ago

    Delayed for another year then due to meticulous flag removing.

  • Silvergun-Blue #3 2 years ago

    Surely having your flag appear in an extremely high profile game is far from a bad thing?

  • Shikasama #4 2 years ago

    It's not petty, just the way the system works. GT5 uses these flags without permission then so does say a Hollywood film. Siena wants to get some money for the use of their branding or trademarks or whatever but the directors turn around and say 'but look, GT5 used them and didnt have to pay anything). It weakens their trademark if they don't aggressively defend it.

    Its a weird system.
    Edited by Shikasama at 25/08/10 @ 14:41

  • covfan #5 2 years ago

    Amazed that the officials representing the city of Siena are so short sighted they cannot see the positive promotion the game will give their city and their horse racing event.

  • Hypercube #6 2 years ago

    If these flags are on display in a public space, is there any legal need to remove them? Obviously it would be good PR in some country in Europe to do as requested, but it's not like the whole "Resistance" church thing.
    Edited by Hypercube at 25/08/10 @ 14:54

  • Metalfish #7 2 years ago

    the obvious solution is to replace the flags with a load of rotting horse heads on pikes.

  • X201 #8 2 years ago

    Best suggestion so far was on a poster on VG247

    "Change them to Gay Pride flags"

    The Siena flag people sound like a welcoming and inclusive bunch of people so that would be the perfect swap

  • Vice.Destroyer #9 2 years ago

    Yes, Salentino. Spain. The piazza is in Spain. Palio di Senta is held in Spain too. As a matter of fact, it is a popular misconception that it is in Italy. Last time I was there, I bumped into a man, expecting him to drop his plate of pasta, scream out Mama Mia and fall out of his gondola. Didn't happen though. Because, clearly, this piazza is in Espana.

    /failed at geography

  • nasanu #10 2 years ago

    This is ridiculous. You should not have to license a city. I can see the day when images will be taken down from sites like photobucket due to infringing on the copyright of some tourist attraction.

  • JohnnyWashnGo #11 2 years ago

    So are they gonna stop the presses on GT5 or are they just gonna issue a mandatory update to the game which removes the offending flags?

  • Hypercube #12 2 years ago

    Alright, I got the fucking country wrong, ha ha, just drop it, OK?

    /geography fail

  • JahB #13 2 years ago

    Amazed that the officials representing the city of Siena are so short sighted they cannot see the positive promotion the game will give their city and their horse racing event.

    you're joking, right? The horse race down there is vastly more popular than the grand turismo franchise, and has been a tradition for hundreds of years. It's actual history. Featuring it in a videogame does nothing to add to this, and is no promotion to Siena at all, other than a lot of people connecting it to kart racing, which has nothing to do with what actually goes on there.

  • mumblyjoe #14 2 years ago

    If this town has copyrighted/trademarked the flags then Polyphony would have to remove them? If not then surely its fair game?

  • UncleLou #15 2 years ago

    I find it rather amusing that people here (and in the other thread) seem to think Siena or the Palio would need or should be thankful for any promotion. This isn't a startup enterprise. It is a local, albeit world-famous, event that's been going on for 500 years, and Siena isn't exactly suffering from a lack of tourists anyhow. Not that the Palio is for tourists in the first place.

    Maybe they don't want to be associated with something as short-lived and relatively unknown as a bloody videogame? Who are we to judge?

    And it's not exactly like Sony are happy if anyone waves Sony or PS3 flags around without their permission...
    Edited by UncleLou at 25/08/10 @ 14:59

  • ShiftyGeezer #16 2 years ago

    @nasanu : There is no copyright on the externals of buildings, making it legal to take holiday snaps, and so GT can merrily model any city they like (though with attention to advertising, logos etc. that may be trademarked). The copyright infringement here is the flags. Personally I say change the flags to some random flags, maybe international flags, or spell out something humorous like "Siena smells" in nautical flags. GT buyers won't know any different from the official flags, that track won't lose its visual appeal, and copyright issues will be negated.

  • JDub #17 2 years ago

    Flagged as inappropriate.

    /coat

  • Rodchenko #18 2 years ago

    God, some of you people really need to loosen up and let silly joke just slip by. I am looking forward to this game as much as the next guy. With or without flags.

  • disappointed #19 2 years ago

    Call that a controversy? It's hardly gunning down civilians in an airport now is it? Shame on you Polyphony Digital. Must try harder.

  • Freek #20 2 years ago

    The whole "you have to defend your trademark" thing is an exaduration. You only have to defend the trademark if the use makes it more generic. Simply representing the flags in the correct context doesn't fall under that and requires no action.

    But it is a nice oportunity to get some attention or get payed by Sony.

    And if they aren't looking for attention? Why makes this a public statement and not settle with this privatly via Sony directly?
    Edited by Freek at 25/08/10 @ 15:24

  • Tyronne #21 2 years ago

    Could they not just replace the whole lot and set the level in a glue factory whilst the black beauty theme song plays in the background?

  • ant72 #22 2 years ago

    Who's up for RE6 set in Italy?

  • Gromit #23 2 years ago

    How many people had heard of the place or event before reading about it here, the maybe going on to Wikipedia?

    If Polyphony haven't directly infringed any trademarks, then the petty beaureucrats in the local government concerned should be either indifferent, or pleased that more potential tourists will be hearing about their town. It's a car game as well, nothing tasteless is likely to be included which will blacken the image of the place.

  • Hypercube #24 2 years ago

    How many people had heard of the place or event before reading about it here, the maybe going on to Wikipedia?

    I think, from my initial comment of incompetence, you can safely assume I hadn't heard of the place before!

  • Shikasama #25 2 years ago

    Freek - entirely probable, I'm don't really know much about the subject, thats just what ive picked up after a couple of years of reading similar games/tm related bullshit

  • UncleLou #26 2 years ago

    How many people had heard of the place or event before reading about it here, the maybe going on to Wikipedia?

    Are you really saying you haven't heard of Siena before? It is obviously famous enough for Polyphony...

  • El-Dev #27 2 years ago

    Was this the horse race in Quantum of Solace?

  • kangarootoo #28 2 years ago

    @Freek

    Exaggeration, not exaduration. I wouldn't normally be so petty, but for a moment there I thought you'd taught me a new word and I was peeved when I realised I'd just missed the spelling mistake :)


    Things also don't seem to be as simple as you suggest.
    [link url=http://www.businessknowledgesource.com/blog/what_is_trademark_infringement_extended_entry_026165.html
    ]http://www.businessknowledgesource.com/b...[/link]

    Specifically,
    The courts have decided on 8 factors that can determine trademark infringement:
    1. The strength of the mark
    2. The proximity of the goods
    3. The similarity of the marks and goods
    4. The evidence of actual confusion
    5. The similarity of marketing promotion
    6. The degree of care that is exercised by the typical purchaser
    7. The intent of the defendant
    8. The expansion of product lines

    None of those seem to particularly apply here. Normally trademark infringement is when someone else has a symbol or mark that looks too much like yours. In this instance, GT is using the original with the full intention that it represents the original.

    Tbh, I'm not sure it differs much from any other trademark complaint. If I made a game featuring the PizzaHut logo, they would probably be annoyed, even if my use replicated it perfectly and didn't make it more generic. I doubt we would be surprised in such a case, so I'm not sure why we are so surprised in this one.

  • MoGamer2006 #29 2 years ago

    I love it when people use their own ignorance as 'proof' of someone else's idiocy.

  • Bahumet #30 2 years ago

    They aren't represented by the same team if lawyers as Edge Software perchance?

  • HistoryTeller #31 2 years ago

    Reading history at uni, I'm fed up with people claiming "their historical right on this and that". Get over it - petty little horse people.

  • Felwyn #32 2 years ago

    Petty little horse people? You have no idea how seriously it's taken. Each district has its own church where before the race the horse is taken to be blessed.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC1zV5IKMeQ
    ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC1zV5IKMeQ
    </a>
    go to 2:10 and watch till the end

    You bunch of ignorant pricks have no idea what you're dealing with.
    Edited by Felwyn at 25/08/10 @ 16:22

  • messiahtj #33 2 years ago

    "Some very thick people reading Eurogamer. -7(lol)

    How about leaving the control pad where it is at the weekend and get out and see the world "

    Its seems you did hurt some "hardcore gamers'" feelings xD

  • drumbaby #34 2 years ago

    "Each district has its own church where before the race the horse is taken to be blessed. "

    Presumably the horse has a better quality of blessing if certain flags don't appear in a video game?

  • Shikasama #35 2 years ago

    Kanga - I think the 'strength' of the makr is where the idea of 'aggresive defence' comes in doesn't it? I seem to remember that was one of the main motivations behind Marvel suing CoH back in the day, to maintain a strong mark over their characters image rights.

  • MasterNameless #36 2 years ago

    There's a lot of long faces in this thread.

  • TheRealBadabing #37 2 years ago

    Just be thankful Yamauchi didn't do a double take and say "Horse racing, eh? Delay by another year!"

  • kangarootoo #38 2 years ago

    @Shikasama

    I think you are right.

    Its a bit like those pointless patent infringement cases we see, if you don't defend it every time you set a precedent, that makes it easier for someone to pinch when it really matters.

    What if a rival city started using the same flags, and cited GT as part of their defense? :)

  • ChuckNorris #39 2 years ago

    @Felwyn "Petty little horse people? You have no idea how seriously it's taken. Each district has its own church where before the race the horse is taken to be blessed.... You bunch of ignorant pricks have no idea what you're dealing with."

    I love how some gamers here regard this flag non-sense coming from Siena representatives as an actual issue that's worth defending. But "realistic" depictions of high end military destruction and gruesome slaughter through accurately designed farming villages (and their [former] inhabitans, however evil they might have been) raises no quarrel.

    Ban the sick filth that is GT5!

  • spekkeh #40 2 years ago

    Every time I see the name of Yamauchi on Eurogamer I think "I wonder what the old dictator Hiroshi is up to now". Can't GT5 Yamauchi change his name or something?

  • Shikasama #41 2 years ago

    It's as much an issue as any other intellectual property infringemet. Just because it hapesn to be about flags doesn't make it any less worth defending than a company logo or whatever. I've merely been trying to point out why this isn't simple pettyness on behalf of Siena.

    Looks like there's someone going down and negging posts. Honestly, if I, or Kanga or whoever is wrong, instead of hiding behind the neg button, or a dickhead comment like EarlBasset, say why, especially if you like, actually know.

  • ChuckNorris #42 2 years ago

    All I meant was that even if Siena may have a point, there is absolutely no reason for people here to care. Unless they live in Siena and take great pride in the horse race. It's a non issue to the rest of the world, or at least it should be.

    Ps. I never neg anyone unless they're acting like twats.
    Edited by ChuckNorris at 25/08/10 @ 18:22

  • UncleLou #43 2 years ago

    May aswell remove the whole track if they can't use the correct flag. It'll be the city's loss.

    I am sure they'll cry bitter tears and sink back into oblivion after this short bit of fame. :D

  • SavageEvil #44 2 years ago

    Kaz get the flags gone now, put up GT flags instead. I don't want to miss out on getting my hands on GT5 this Nov. I don't care who the flags belong to, they can keep it. Now they can fade back to relative obscurity from whence they came, if it weren't for this controversy we would have never know about it. Only the Italians who take part and are around it would know, maybe they can strike a deal with PD, but I think that Sony will thumbs down that idea as those flags and what have you aren't going to be bringing in the money. Lose em and keep the game development going.

  • UncleLou #45 2 years ago

    Now they can fade back to relative obscurity from whence they came, if it weren't for this controversy we would have never know about it.

    Speak for yourself. Being ignorant is one thing, taking pride in it though, shameful shit.

    The historic centre of Siena has been declared by UNESCO a World Heritage Site. It is one of the nation's most visited tourist attractions

  • ziggy_played_guitar #46 2 years ago

    I'm all for taking the gaming industry serious, but belittling a event that is +500 years old, and finding weird that their promoters have some pride in it, is quite frankly, very small-minded.
    This ghetto-ish attitude do us no good.

  • FuzzyDuck #47 2 years ago

    Horse racing for GT6 so?

  • drumbaby #48 2 years ago

    Yes, but they'll have to put paper bags over the horses' heads, in case Siena start saying neigh.

  • Spekingur #49 2 years ago

    Does this mean that GT5 might have a hidden horse-race feature?

  • Farzlepot #50 2 years ago

    "giant horsey race"

    I demand to see these prodigious equines immediately!

  • Red-Moose #51 2 years ago

    Yeah like Parma Ham.

  • Shikasama #52 2 years ago

    drumbaby - Genius

  • mcmothercruncher #53 2 years ago

    Don't rush the decision- take another year and think it over fella.

  • HistoryTeller #54 2 years ago

    @Felwyn. You are a prime examble on why people start wars and wreck havoc on the smallest and not important matters.

    I really do feel sorry for you.

  • darkmorgado #55 2 years ago

    Change them to Gay Pride flags

    Why exactly?

    Oh I get it, you are insinuating that the rainbow flag is somehow ridiculous and something to be ashamed of.

    Bravo for your non-discriminatory attitude! (/sarcasm)

  • Gromit #56 2 years ago

    I think it was being implied that if Siena is promoted as a homosexual hotbed, then there will be more and more gay tourists visiting there, which would in turn annoy the seemingly stuffy people who are upset about the flags.

    It's really all a big deal over nothing though...

  • nasanu #57 2 years ago

    "you're joking, right? The horse race down there is vastly more popular than the grand turismo franchise, and has been a tradition for hundreds of years"

    I, like most, have never heard of the little animal race. GT on the other hand is a phenomenon loved by millions across the globe. GT could do a lot for the little city square, but the little city square does very little for GT. Hell by the time GT5 is out I may even know the name of it.
    Edited by nasanu at 30/08/10 @ 07:12