Jordan Thomas: Console wars are "silly"

By Tom Bramwell Published 8 February, 2010

Blames "confirmation bias".

2K Marin's Jordan Thomas has said that the console wars are "silly".

"There's a cognitive effect known as confirmation bias which leads people to latch onto conclusions that support their preferences and ignore data which doesn't," Thomas told Destructoid (thanks VG247).

"This leads to wild, unreasoning loyalty to a chosen platform, sports team, or brand of soda." There's only one Dirk Kuyt.

"From a development perspective, the console wars are a bit silly. Our target is consistency, and it's always kind of sad to see people throwing their energy into platform partisanship, because it seems to flood the critical channels and drown out other creative discourse."

Thomas is creative director on BioShock 2, which is due out for PC, PS3 and Xbox 360 tomorrow, 9th February. Check out the BioShock 2 Eurogamer TV Show for more, and look out for our review at 5pm GMT today.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (63) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • HermitArcader #1 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:17:39 22-12-2011

  • LHH #2 2 years ago

    but they're fun to read !

  • GamerG #3 2 years ago

    I guessing one version is a lot better than the other!

  • acehotshot #4 2 years ago

    Dirk Kuyt is a legend! Handsome devil as well. :p

  • bad09 #5 2 years ago

    Console wars are silly.....

    / hugs PC and looks down on the riff-raff


    Only joking! 360 rulez but not for long because the power of the cell is kicking their bums but big N are still the ONLY people who actually make good games anyway but then who cares when Steve Jobs is god in jeans and his games are bestest because they are only 59p and on things that have an apple logo on the front.

    Amiga FTW you fanboy noobs.....

  • Retroid #6 2 years ago

    There seem to be an awful lot of people who seem to think that the only reason anyone could possibly disagree with them is because those people must be fanboys.

  • thesombrerokid #7 2 years ago

    @Retroid you're clearly a objectivity fanboy.

  • bad09 #8 2 years ago

    With all the ads Retroid gets from objectivity I'm not surprised at the bias. He is clearly on the objec£ivi£y payroll.

  • Grom #9 2 years ago

    I was watching a Youtube video of some old Amiga game and people were STILL seriously arguing in the comments about the ST and Amiga. And that's 25 years later! Some people just like to argue.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #10 2 years ago

    on things that have an apple logo on the front

    I think you'll find they have the apple logo on the back.

  • kinky_mong #11 2 years ago

    Jordan blames confirmation bias, I blame buyer's remorse.

  • bad09 #12 2 years ago

    "I think you'll find they have the apple logo on the back. "

    Ah I don't care really just mucking around, well apart from the Amiga FTW. :)

    Seriously though it's always gone on not only in games either. Cars, sport, TV, films, books, politics, righting the world down the pub, the colour of the sky. We all flame on in some shape or form, it's our nature to "debate".

    I always laugh at my mate trying to argue his Amstrad was better than my Speccy. hahahahaha!
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/10 @ 09:53

  • kangarootoo #13 2 years ago

    This guy speaks from my heart.

    Confirmation bias isn't limited to games of course. Religious debate is chock full of it.

  • local_celebrity #14 2 years ago

    Not as silly as releasing your game straight after Mass Effect 2.

    See you on the dole queue!

  • Ryboy #15 2 years ago

    "There's only one Dirk Kuyt"

    Dirk Kuyt is CUNT!

  • Doctor_What #16 2 years ago

    I like to think I'm objective about this. His console war might be silly, but mine is sillier and will last for at least 10 years.

  • loopy #17 2 years ago

    "Helps not to flame the fires of fanboys with blocky textures and challenge rooms that were set to be included suddenly becoming DLC for the year late PS3 port of the original Bioshock doesn't it Mr Thomas. ;) "

    It would also help if Mr Thomas actually had any say in that at all. Unfortunately he was only a level designer on the original game, and not a creative director, but hey, lets not let that fact get in the way of a good counter-argument eh? ;)

  • PlugMonkey #18 2 years ago

    Confirmation bias isn't limited to games of course. Religious debate is chock full of it.

    Indeed. Cognitive dissonance is pretty much the main driving force of all human behaviour, especially all the really irrational and violent stuff.

    Console wars are particularly silly though. Do these people have the same attachment to all their electrical appliances?

    "Dyson sales up 10%, take that Hooverboyz lol!!!"

  • local_celebrity #19 2 years ago

    Eh? I don't think you know what cognitive dissonance means.

  • Mkwone #20 2 years ago

    War? this isn't a war it's a massacre, there is no competition.

  • Genji #21 2 years ago

    Your mother has cognitive dissonance. Uh huh, that's right.

  • dirk_aircool #22 2 years ago

    Wow Jordan Thomas must be all grown up working out how human minds work.I thought everybody knew about religon ( crap I cant remeber how to spell that )

  • Retroid #23 2 years ago

    @bad09: "With all the ads Retroid gets from objectivity I'm not surprised at the bias. He is clearly on the objec£ivi£y payroll."

    It's true.

    Although I'm intolerant of intolerance.

    ....

    /Explodes in a shower of logical contradiction

  • BritishBlue1 #24 2 years ago

    "There's only one Dirk Kuyt."

    Bless you Tom Bramwell, bless you. :)

  • kangarootoo #25 2 years ago

    @local_celebrity

    A "mental stalling" that occurs when the brain is faced by two contradictory but firmly held beliefs (such as knowing fish can't talk, and witnessing a talking fish).

    I think that is relevant here (and I don't PlugMonkey was saying the two conditions are the same), as when someone rearranges their beliefs to remove the dissonance, confirmation bias will determine which beliefs remain intact and which are discarded.

    Edit: /sat there looking at disgarded, thinking "something is distinctly fishy about that word I just wrote, but I just can't put my finger on it".
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/10 @ 11:51

  • BritishBlue1 #26 2 years ago

    @kinky...mong(??)

    "Jordan blames confirmation bias, I blame buyer's remorse."

    Oooor, it could be buyer's confirmation remorse bias.
    Edited by 1 at 08/02/10 @ 11:35

  • Murton #27 2 years ago

    The console wars are "silly" but certainly not helped by an industry that creates imbalances for the legions of "fanboys" to argue about. Timed exclusives, shitty ports, and "journalists" who analyse the differences between two versions of the same game and then badmouth console rather than the developer for the results all feed fuel to the flames of the "console war"

    I'd love to see the end of MS vs Sony fanboy wars, but as long as 3rd party developers and publishers continue to create these divides we're kinda stuck with it.

  • TonyCocaCola #28 2 years ago

    I spent 300 quid about 4 years ago and i will defend that decision to the death.

  • ignatiusjreilly #29 2 years ago

    Fact is, whether it's games makers or games journalists, fanboys are a profitable thing for the business end of the industry so they don't really want them to go away.

  • themanfromdelmonte #30 2 years ago

    @Retroid you're clearly a objectivity fanboy.

    an objectivity fanboy.

    /is a grammar fanboy.

  • Retroid #31 2 years ago

    :D

  • gaselite #32 2 years ago

    Jordan Thomas: Grass is green; sky, blue

  • Retroid #33 2 years ago

    @gaselite: "Jordan Thomas: Grass is green; sky, blue"

    He obviously hates red and purple! BIAS!

  • local_celebrity #34 2 years ago

    @kangaratoo

    It seemed to me that he was conflating two very different processes. However, having googled it a bit, I'm willing to concede there is a relationship between the two. According to Wikipedia, "[cognitive] dissonance can...lead to confirmation bias, the denial of disconfirming evidence, and other ego defense mechanisms."

    So yeah, maybe you've got a point. As you were.

    ;-)

  • laharl80 #35 2 years ago

    Console wars only started when microsoft started buying PS franchises instead of getting their own.Microsoft have a bit of a record when it comes to causing these sorts of things.I don't remember these problems existing before they launched a console.

  • Retroid #36 2 years ago

    The Amstrad CPC was shit.

    /Strokes C64 with floppy disk drive

  • Stomp224 #37 2 years ago

    "This leads to wild, unreasoning loyalty to a chosen platform, sports team, or brand of soda."

    But Pepsi does taste like crap!

  • laharl80 #38 2 years ago

    Well maybe spectrum vs c64. i had a spectrum and happily played on my mates c64.As i remember(i was young)that rivalry was more on a business level than a fan rivalry.

  • TonyCocaCola #39 2 years ago

    @Stomp224

    No Pepsi is much better than coke.

  • metalangel #40 2 years ago

    I know several people with all three consoles who readily admit they hardly ever use their Wii or PS3. They might fire up Wii Sports Resort or Uncharted 2 on occasion but otherwise they play on their 360.

  • HermitArcader #41 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:17:39 22-12-2011

  • kdoggdayton #42 2 years ago

    If there weren't console wars what the hell would we talk about in these forums? games? yeah sure.

  • 1Dgaf #43 2 years ago

    I like the way you put confirmation bias in quotes because, clearly, no gamers would have heard of it.

  • bad09 #44 2 years ago

    "No Pepsi is much better than coke. "

    Stupid carebears. Dr Pepper is what the "REAL" beverage drinkers go for.

  • sfp_noodle #45 2 years ago

    ive been playing bioshock 2 all day and its bloody amazing! if EG give it less than a 9/10 i declare EG an anti fanoby of an amazing game!...tht didnt make much sense, but bioshock 2 is AM-AZ-ING :D

  • TonyCocaCola #46 2 years ago

    @bad09

    Mountain Dew

  • bad09 #47 2 years ago

    "Mountain Dew"

    Last gen taste. Actually being British and all that never actually tasted it dear boy.....

    / sips tea.

  • M_of_the_sys #48 2 years ago

    i declare EG an anti fanoby of an amazing game

    How does one become a fanoby?

  • Rodchenko #49 2 years ago

    Wilkinson > Gillette

  • Bravestinsane #50 2 years ago

    thank you for visiting<a href="http://www.sta tethefuckingobvious.com
    ">http://www.sta tethefuckingobvious.com
    </a>

    Not supposed to be a link so ignore it =P

    Neg me all you wish but come one everyone knows this even the fanboys.

    Of course there will be bias because you need to justify what you bought.
    Edited by 2 at 08/02/10 @ 15:22

  • kangarootoo #51 2 years ago

    "How does one become a fanoby?"

    I think maybe you have to train as a Jedi first, then get really pedantic in discussions about how the force actually works.

  • spekkeh #52 2 years ago

    I like Dirk Kuyt no matter what team he plays for. What does this say about me?

  • RobotRocker #53 2 years ago

    Lets just do it now

    lol Spectrum with 3 colours and crap music
    lol C64 muddy as hell with crap Chase HQ port
    lol Amstrad for being bland as hell
    lol Amiga Disk Swapping
    lol SNES kiddy as hell
    lol Megadrive no Mode 7 or good version of Street Fighter
    lol Jaguar because lol Jeff Minter made the only good game for it
    lol N64 Kiddy as hell and £60 games
    lol Playstation Load times and disc swapping
    lol Saturn because looooooooooooool Saturn
    lol XBox is heug
    lol Gamecube still kiddy
    lol PS2 full of crapware
    lol 360 RROD and only FPS Games
    lol PS3 NO GAMES
    lol Wii Waggle
    lol DS IMAGINE BABYZ
    lol PSP UMD SUCKS

    Game.com supremacy bitches

  • Rodriguez #54 2 years ago

    [Blue Option] I'm Commander Shepard and the 360 is my favourite console on the Citadel......[discount/fanboy points]

    [Blue Option] I'm Commander Shepard and the PS3 is my favourite console on the Citadel......[discount/fanboy points]

    [Blue Option] I'm Commander Shepard and the Wii is my favourite console on the Citadel.......[discount/fanboy points]

  • IneptPercy #55 2 years ago

    I remember back in the mega drive days arguing that Sonic was better than Mario (I still stand by that)

    I do actually think the fanboy ways started when you could chip a PS1, everybody bought one was you could get games from the guy in the pub for £5.

    They all went on to buying PS2's and basically the Sony monoply started, what happens when something is at the top and nothing can beat it, people start to support it, love it, grow strangely loyal.

    Meanwhile the 360 then got supporters for being the underdog as such, much like people will support something big, there is those who will always go against it.

    I would say I have supported the 360 uprising as I don't think Sony's monoply was good for the industry, so really which every side you sit on you both have to agree that this competition between the 2 has brought prices down and pushed quality up.

    Basically if you like the PS3 exclusives, buy a PS3. If you like the 360 exclusives buy a 360. If you mostly want multi format games buy a 360. If you want 1080p games buy a PC. If you want your Gran to play buy a Wii... etc etc etc

    There is a reason to buy each platform its just what suits you the best.

    We all love games so lets all exist in peace.

  • GamesConnoisseur #56 2 years ago

    Seem perhaps some days that threre are too few truely agnostic voices who just admires games which appears on any platform, I loved Uncharted 2, Mass Effect 2 and looks forward to Heavy Rain and Alan Wake.

    Yet there are too many rabid comments designed to SULLY the name of the rival console as if scoring points would indeed counts toward winning the overall war?! Nintendo already won it silly!!

    Apparently no thanks to majority of the EG readers, as I guess that while a good number of us owns Wii but would perhaps be more of us are regular PC/HD Gen consoles owners.

    Still we made a very little difference, so why not just appreciate fully any deserving game AND console whenever they comes along?!

  • loopy #57 2 years ago

    "@loopy if you're involved in a game that came out a year late with issues for another console, and broke promises over additional content, regardless of your position at the time, its provocative to fail to admit failings in the past at the company on this issue and dismiss any concerns people have over formats as silly."

    @ Vertical Stand - Ah, but was he involved in that PS3 port at all? Seems to me that he was moved straight onto the Bioshock 2 director job immediately after having completed development duties on the original game. In that case how could he be accused of breaking promises over content he had no hand in whatsoever?

    He can hardly admit failings to extra game content which he had no developmental input to, for all we know that content was farmed out to a 3rd party while the original team started work on the sequel. Look at Half Life 2 on the PS3, that port wasn't done by Valve, and didn't turn out so well from what I understand. If you want to blame someone, I suggest you turn your attention to the publishers, and their shoddy farming out of ports and extra content to 2nd rate, 3rd party development teams.
    Edited by 7 at 08/02/10 @ 23:23

  • warbo #58 2 years ago

    Kuyt wars > Console wars.

    Dirk Kuyt is cooler than the Fonze, and always scores in the derby.

  • Wyrm #59 2 years ago

    He's right.

    Like music CDs are, there should be one format.

    You want competition to drive innovation? Do that with the software please.

    Natal/Wii motion style gimmicks can just be optional add-ons.

    I like games, not consoles.

  • gaselite #60 2 years ago

    pathetic attempt to stir up some controversy ahead of their new game release.

    how is his comment in any way controversial? it's common sense

  • zedzee #61 2 years ago

    And what is his suggestion then? Gamers should buy ever console on the face of the planet, to ensure that they have access to all games, such as exclusives?!

    Why shouldn't the games industry and products within it (be they games or consoles) have 'fans'?

    Why do we need to sit on the fence? It's a human right, surely, to have an opinion? Why does this industry feel like they need to strip us of it?!!

    I think sitting on the fence, as he's clearly doing here, is an even worse position to take; at least by siding, it means you have balls to stand by your decision...unless you're Mr Thomas, of course, who'll fly in any direction you like, as long as his bread is buttered from that direction.

    Pathetic.

  • Retroid #62 2 years ago

    @RobotRocker: "lol C64 muddy as hell with crap Chase HQ port"

    Replace that with "lol Ocean games and their strangely muddy palette choices" and I'll agree. And yes, the C64 conversion of Chase HQ was shite!

  • loopy #63 2 years ago

    "And what is his suggestion then? Gamers should buy ever console on the face of the planet, to ensure that they have access to all games, such as exclusives?!"

    You'll have to do that anyway, console manufacturers will always want their exclusives (limited, at least) in an attempt to persuade more people to buy their particular console.

    "Why shouldn't the games industry and products within it (be they games or consoles) have 'fans'?

    Why do we need to sit on the fence? It's a human right, surely, to have an opinion? Why does this industry feel like they need to strip us of it?!!"

    Well of course they will always have fans, it's not a right as such (poor choice of word in my opinion), but it is human nature, even if it is over what in the end amounts to a disposable lump of plastic containing assorted random metal objects that will be out of date in 3 - 4 years time. He's just pointing out that it's a pretty silly and trivial thing to be zealously fanboyish about in the end, after all, the companies who make this stuff don't give a shit about it ultimately (even if they pretend to to the press), they just want your hard earned cash.

    "I think sitting on the fence, as he's clearly doing here, is an even worse position to take; at least by siding, it means you have balls to stand by your decision...unless you're Mr Thomas, of course, who'll fly in any direction you like, as long as his bread is buttered from that direction."

    Balls to stand by your decision? Don't make me laugh. How about you go fight for human rights or freedom in a hostile environment for real, now that takes balls. Being a fan of a console or computer game really doesn't.

    "Pathetic."

    Yup, your argument really is, get some perspective in your life please.
    Edited by 2 at 09/02/10 @ 13:53