Homefront dev defends 10-hour days

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 17 January, 2011

Kaos working to the bone, is part of the job.

The boss of Homefront developer Kaos Studios has defended crunch – the act of working 10-hour days seven days a week to get a game ready for launch.

An insider working at the New York studio told Develop that crunch has been underway at Kaos for around half-a-year.

"Over the holiday many of us were on call and unable to leave to see our family," said the anonymous source.

Responding to the accusations, Kaos general manager David Votypka said 10-hour shifts were common among many industries, and denied staff were forced to work over the holiday break.

"If this seems unique or abhorrent, I would have to suggest that any assessment regarding a 10-hour work day would need to consider a much larger segment of the American workforce," he said.

"Digital media companies, marketers, PR, even accountants in various industries throughout the nation, work 10-hour days regularly, 52 weeks per year."

Last week THQ's outspoken core games boss Danny Bilson visited the studio and tweeted, "At Kaos studios in NY sitting with a team that's finaling on 7 day weeks for a couple of months. Talk about that 'thousand yard stare'."

Votypka said Bilson's tweet was incorrect. "Unfortunately, it was misstated that this [seven-day crunch] has been going on for two months. That's simply not the case. For the record: no Kaos developer has worked 60 days without a break. That will never happen here."

Homefront, due out on 8th March, has been in development for three years. THQ hopes it will prove a critical and commercial success – and lay the groundwork for sequels that will eventually challenge the likes of Call of Duty and Medal of Honor.

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (60) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • MrChuckles #1 1 year ago

    Next Article about Kaos will probably be along the lines of 'Homefront Dev sheds workforce just after release'. These companies that treat people like this usually dump them asap to maximise profits.

  • metalangel #2 1 year ago

    Most studios have a crunch, don't they? What's special here?

  • TeaFiend #3 1 year ago

    He is correct in saying nobody is forced to take overtime. It is just that if you do not they will make life a bit hellish for you, you will hinder you chances of promotion and be told you are the reason for everyone else working so hard to pick up your slack. You will be made to feel guilty for not working it.

    Same as most games companies.

  • teabagger #4 1 year ago

    Ten hour days, seven days a week for six months is not crunch.

    It is bad management.

    (edit)

    Also, I love my job and accept that sometimes crunch in some form is sometimes necessary. But really, do I want to watch and be a part of my 1 year old learning how to walk, talk and all those kinds of meaningful things or do I want to sacrifice all that for something that will be forgotten about and/or £10 in the bargain bin eight months after launch?
    Anyone who constantly chooses the latter should feel a fool when they hit old age and look back their life.
    Edited by teabagger at 17/01/11 @ 12:26

  • sneetch #5 1 year ago

    Yeah, and you will be first out the door when the inevitable post release lay-offs come around. So while you're not being forced directly the threats are all there.

    "Well of course you don't have to work in the salt mines, you're not slaves but of course if you don't then you'll be shot."

  • Cronan #6 1 year ago

    Talk about living the dream.

  • SomaticSense #7 1 year ago

    It shit, yes. But it is so far from the only industry that forces 10 hour days on staff that it is pointless criticising only the games industry.

    I'm sure there are a lot of people on this site and the forums who work in call centres? A lot of them have those shifts all year, every year, not just in 'the crunch'.

    At least these devs are getting paid over minimum wage to do a job they don't hate.
    Edited by SomaticSense at 17/01/11 @ 12:24

  • paulf #8 1 year ago

    Just because lots of companies do it doesn't make it right. Nor does it make it healthy for the employees. Nor does it make it productive.

  • MrChuckles #9 1 year ago

    All crunch is one of the 3 following things:

    1. A decent company having a terrible production or design department which completely underestimates the development time for the design and then can't afford to cut anything.
    2. A slightly dubious company having a decent production department which correctly estimates the development time for the original design, but then the design changes and production & design decide not to cut anything or change the date.
    3. An asshole company knows the design will not get made in time and decide to make it anyway, and decide that 'crunch will be standard'.

    What we have here is a case of number 3.

    I have worked for all 3 and in some cases companies where production and design departments are screwed at the same time.. Boy, that was fun.

  • kosigan #10 1 year ago

    Working 7 days a week for a couple of months would be illegal over here: you have to have either 24 hours off in 7 days, or 48 hours off in 14 days. That's quite apart from the mental strain that that kind of working practice will put on the employees.

  • LOLLERS #11 1 year ago

    "Digital media companies, marketers, PR, even accountants in various industries throughout the nation, work 10-hour days regularly, 52 weeks per year."

    A lot of those people charge for the extra hours they work too, especially accountants, I imagine. That's a rarity in games.

    @Somatic, actually for a lot of people in this situation their hourly rate is probably not much over minimum wage. Often they're graduates or have only a few years experience so they're not that well paid to start with, then once you factor in 30-40% of the hours they work are effectively unpaid (hours on top of their contracted and salaried hours) it doesn't look so great....
    Edited by LOLLERS at 17/01/11 @ 12:37

  • MrChuckles #12 1 year ago

    @kosigan - It isn't illegal if you opt out of the European Working Time Directive which we all have to do as soon as you accept a job. Of course, you can choose not to, but you will either not get the job, or instead be given the worst work and see everyone else promoted around you.

  • SomaticSense #13 1 year ago

    @paulf I never said that.

    But it's unfair to criticise only the games industry (which seems to be the case in media), and yet expect others in other industries to deal with it.

    I don't even work these hellish shifts, and yet all to often I hear the ignorant phrase; "if they don't like it, then they can quit". Well, the same can be levelled at developers as well if it's expected that everyone else has to 'deal with it'.

  • muscleblade #14 1 year ago

    Thats illegal here in Norway even if you get compensated for the overtime witch the law also demands over here.

  • tachometer #15 1 year ago

    But chef Michel works 16 hour days!

  • Der_tolle_Emil #16 1 year ago

    10 hours a day is not too bad given the circumstances, even if that includes weekends for a couple of weeks. I've done that before and if it happens once every two years or so then it's fine.

    It's too much if that is going on for 6 months though. I imagine I would be more productive overall if I had at least one day off to regenerate.

  • asphaltcowboy #17 1 year ago

    10 hour days in crunch is not ideal. Less so when the crunch lasts 6 months!

    Actually, that isn't crunch. That's just really bad management.
    Edited by asphaltcowboy at 17/01/11 @ 12:47

  • Olemak #18 1 year ago

    Homefront? The game where North Korea invades the US, right? Well, that game has some issues all right ...

    Overworked and exhausted employees are not really all that effective. Tired employees does not only work at less than half speed, they also make a lot of mistakes. Coders make bugs, and that adds even more work. And all the time, they've got a publisher suit guy barking milestone dates at them, threatening to cut funds or reneg the contract. So then you have to "crunch" even more. Vicious cycle.

  • arcam #19 1 year ago

    Reports suggest 3.2 million people work more than 48 hours per week, and that's just in Britain. From working in an American company I know they have it much worse than us.

    Working long hours sucks, particularly if you don't get paid extra for it, but it's a problem for business in general, not just the games industry. It's a simple question of what's more important - happy workers or increased profits, and you only have to look around you to figure out what's the answer these days.
    Edited by arcam at 17/01/11 @ 12:47

  • Razorus #20 1 year ago

    Aww poor babies have to work big scary 10 hour shifts :(
    I do 10 hour shifts and I work in a cinema. It's normal. But there are people in other countries dying for pennies which they work for in shit conditions for much longer hours.

  • asphaltcowboy #21 1 year ago

    @Razorus Can I ask what you do at the cinema though, because currently I'm imagining you standing around, occasionally serving some popcorn and maybe stealing a few pick n' mix. In which case a 10 hour shift is hardly the most strenuous or technically challenging of days...

  • arcam #22 1 year ago

    That's unfair.

    You could just as easily say a game artist sits in a chair all day messing around with gradients, while a cinema worker is on his feet and dealing with the general public.

  • Retro_ #23 1 year ago

    And that my friends is the reason why I don't work in the Software industry..... well that and the fact that I can't do the job as I'm not a C++ programmer or whatever language today's game's coders use.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #24 1 year ago

    It's especially unfair because personally speaking I'd rather be busy 10 hours than always having about an hour or so with nothing to do in between. I hate my 8 hour days at work when I have nothing to do more than the 10 hour days (which I have at least once a week) where I am busy all the time.

  • paulf #25 1 year ago

    @SomaticSense

    I wasn't making a dig at you, more at the guy saying that other industries do it so that makes it ok and more the 'crunch culture' that bullies people into accepting this (In any of the industries we are talking about). People shouldn't have to quit if they don't like it, they should have the right to work decent hours for decent pay.

    If the bosses had to pay people for the hours they worked extra I'm sure this culture would soon disappear.

    And the main point is that it just isn't productive, tired grumpy staff with low morale are not going to make better products



  • MrChuckles #26 1 year ago

    @Razorus - Do you get paid for 10 hour shifts though? Or do you get paid for 7 and a pizza?

  • teabagger #27 1 year ago

    Razorus, just because poor working conditions/practices are reported in one industry in no way implies they don't exist elsewhere. Given that this is a gaming website, you might expect such articles to relate to the gaming industry in particular.

    You might also find that people are more receptive to this idea if you resisted the urge to be condescending in your post.

  • mazzl #28 1 year ago

    the stupid thing here is, that (good) programming requires consentration.
    how can you consentrate after 9 hours?
    still 2 to 3 weeks is ok, i mean every business has deadlines... but after a month. it does more damage then good, since you will just get burned up programmers.

  • LOLLERS #29 1 year ago

    @paulf Of course the argument is that they do pay you, because you're paid a salary and your contract says something like you have to do extra hours whenever the project demands it.
    Edited by LOLLERS at 17/01/11 @ 13:02

  • PlugMonkey #30 1 year ago

    @MrChuckles

    Actually, I believe kosigan is right on this one. The Working Time Directive, that they make you opt out of, only covers legislation regarding not working more than 48 hours per week when averaged over a 6 month period.

    The 24 hours per week or 48 hours per fortnight is a totally separate piece of legislation. If you want to come in every day, I don't think the law can stop you, but if your employer is scheduling you for 7 days a week every week, then they are breaking the law.

    There are a few occupations that are exempt from this: military, medical, deep sea rig or freight crew - but video games development isn't one of them. They have to offer you 24 hours off a week or 48 hours off per fortnight, and there is no opting out.

  • local_celebrity #31 1 year ago

    I'm sure it'll all seem worth it when the game gets a 7 out of 10.

  • Olemak #32 1 year ago

    For jobs requiring a lot of focus, like precicion manufacturing specifically, but probably for programming also, you actually get a higher productivity rate from 5 hour days than 10 hour days. Tired works loose focus, and then they make expensive mistakes.

    I just don't think that a prolonged crunch would lead to very high quality in the end. A sprint now and again to meet specific deadlines is good business practice, but when the sprint becomes the norm, then you get burnout. No-one can sprint for the duration of a marathon, and game development is a marathon process.

  • dr_zoidthrob #33 1 year ago

    Only 10 hours a day??

    I've signed contracts that waive my right to working 40 hours a week. Basically, if you don't agree to working more, you don't get the job.

    Oh, and then no bonus at the end of the project. Just a couple of days off..

  • Rack #34 1 year ago

    Working long hours is a problem in general for many industries, but it's only relevant to a games site when games companies do it.

  • SomaticSense #35 1 year ago

    Well, erm, yeah.....

  • kangarootoo #36 1 year ago

    Summary.

    "Its not just us that are shit. Lots of employers are just as bad."


    And.

    "For the record: no Kaos developer has worked 60 days without a break. That will never happen here."

    Don't sound so bloody proud of it, like that is in any way acceptable. 60 days?!? That is ridiculous.
    Edited by kangarootoo at 17/01/11 @ 13:33

  • dadrester #37 1 year ago

    "Digital media companies, marketers, PR, even accountants in various industries throughout the nation, work 10-hour days regularly, 52 weeks per year."

    Doesn't mean it's any less shitty. I'm far more productive when I know I have to be out of the office by a certain time. Also with the European Working Time Directive opt out, there are still regulations that companies need to follow not to get into serious trouble for example...

    "If you are an adult worker you have the right to a break of at least 11 hours between working days. This means as an adult worker, if you finish work at 11.00 pm on Monday you should not start work until 10.00 am on Tuesday."

  • TruWari3r #38 1 year ago

    So despite being delayed to avoid cod etc

    [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-09-17-thqs-homefront-delayed
    ]http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-0...[/link]

    it still needs a big crunch to meet the finish line?

    Oh well, I loved RDR and read stuff like this about the development as well

  • JohnnyWashnGo #39 1 year ago

    Working those hours for that length of time is not normal in any way and is indicative of bad management practices in terms of resource allocation and actual time management. Nobody wants to over promise and under deliver but at the same time nobody wants to spend their time on this planet sat behind a desk missing the important things in life.

    Work smarter not harder people.

  • arcam #40 1 year ago

    All employees are just commodities, and your employers will get as much from you as they can. As long as we keep signing the piece of paper that says "Yes, I do agree to waive all my rights to a healthy work life", we will continue to work unhealthy hours that affect relationships with wives/husbands, affect the raising of our children and make us unnecessarily stressed and ill.

    We all recognise the dangers of working too much, which is why the EU tried to force more reasonable hours into law, but our government rejected it because companies are more important than people now. We can try and stand up and fight for our right to reasonable working conditions, but we don't because the system is set up so that if you don't agree to play the game you get kicked to the pavement. There will always be someone behind you so desperate for money that they will do your job for less pay or more hours.

    Either we all get together and insist that a corporatocracy is not for us, or we accept the world we live in and knuckle down because your employers aren't going to sacrifice anything to make your life better unless they have to.

  • lockload #41 1 year ago

    I don't see the 10 hour day as much of an issue as i regularly work 8 til 6 but 7 days a week no thanks, I wouldn't even do 6

    I'm in application development job but would love to work in the games industry but not in working conditions, pay, job security at present the the games industry

  • Murton #42 1 year ago

    If handled properly and workers are given good terms on crunch it's not anywhere near as bad as the stories make it out to be.

    When I was a QA Tester we got takeout (or receipt reimbursement) paid for by the company if working an additional 3 hours or more on a typical working day and if working weekends. This isn't a legal requirement or set out in contract but a goodwill gesture from the company, you do some overtime, we'll feed you. The overtime wasn't paid, but returned as time off in leiu, which you're free to take once crunch is over or occasionally the company offered to buy the time back from us, developers got the exact same deal, plus a generous bonus on release, some even worked nights under those conditions. At no point did we feel pressured to do extra time, we did it because we enjoyed the job and felt that it was worth doing, a little goodwill can make all the difference.

    Now I'm not sure how Kaos do it, but I'd like to think that workers are compensated for their time in some way, perhaps through favourable terms such as those offered by my previous employer or maybe financially compensated, as long as they get something for their work it's all good. What isn't good though, is the way that the majority of companies within the industry (my previous employer included) tend to cull entry level staff as soon as their game passes console certification. So what you end up with dozens of people working 60 hour weeks for a few months followed by a huge and instantaneous layoff, we were even told that that "is part of the job" and it made me never want to work in the games industry again, crunch was fine but layoffs on that scale are never necessary within a successful business and are down purely to bad management and cynical profit maximisation, I wonder if Kaos will try to claim that they are an exception to that rule also.

  • Ranger101 #43 1 year ago

    @MrChuckles - I hate how right you're going to be :-(

  • arcam #44 1 year ago

    Re: compensation...

    He also revealed that bonuses and time off will be awarded to all staff after the game ships, and that the bonuses are “scaled to reward extra effort put in”.

    Develop’s source claimed, however, that “many people at Kaos are unhappy about the crunch mainly because they assume there will be not be a good reward for it”.

    “THQ does have a bonus program but most people feel that it will not reward the team enough. People assume the way the bonus works it will not fairly reward those that put in the extra time and effort.

  • pinchofsalt #45 1 year ago

    If this isn't Bilson himself interfering, then Kaos should fire their designers and producers and hire people with design and organisational skills before their team falls apart.

  • smithdown #46 1 year ago

    Is one of their designers really called Chris Cross?! Everybody jump jump! I wonder what way round he wears his trousers...

    On topic: 10 hour days really aren't that unusual, I work in policy for a central government department and when we have a bill going through Parliament we will frequently be in the Commons or Lords from 8am til 10pm and later. It's tough but you gotta do it to get the job done. There are many organisations that will expect the same of staff, occasionally. But 7 days a week for monhts on end is not reasonable.
    I hope its worth it for these guys. The game does look interesting and a lot of thought seems to have gone in to the back story. I'm worried that all this talk of consequences etc will just end up in a bunch of cut scenes and heavily scripted moments. I'm all for a Half-Life 2 approach to telling a story - a light touch does a lot more than a load of exposition.
    Edited by smithdown at 17/01/11 @ 15:16

  • TitusCrow #47 1 year ago

    I shall say this -

    "The man who gives me employment, which I must have or suffer, that man is my master, let me call him what I will."

    - Henry George,

    Or for the purists among you - Nimia libertas et populis et privatis in nimiam servitutem cadit
    - Cicero

  • dirtysteve #48 1 year ago

    This debate could use some balance, not from Kaos, or EG, but from other developers. Is the crunch endemic? Or can another dev step forward and prove it can be avoided by proper planning and management. It doesn't sound that different from the software industry in general though. People higher up promising more than they have the capacity to deliver, and expecting miracles from their staff.

  • jake-123 #49 1 year ago

    i have good expectations for this game... please fullfil :)

  • PlugMonkey #50 1 year ago

    I've heard that Relentless have a specific Zero Crunch policy.

  • green_nifta #51 1 year ago

    I'm sure there are plenty of devs here who've done far worse than 10-hour days for 6 months. I'm not making excuses for it, or legitimising it as 'acceptable', but I'm not sure why this particular story is headline news.

  • darth_paul #52 1 year ago

    did KAOS studio boss work during the holidays? Are the employees actually getting paid good enough for their efforts? and how many will get axed, if the game doesnt "perform"?
    Edited by darth_paul at 17/01/11 @ 18:21

  • Badassbab #53 1 year ago

    I work 9 hours 5 days a week, most of the time at my office desk job. I've done about 7-8 hours a day, 7 days a week for a few months straight in a previous catering job.

  • anathema #54 1 year ago

    Contrary to popular opinion, there IS a fuckload wrong with 10-hours days when you're only getting paid for 8 of them. I don't work for free, do you?

  • Lusterpurge #55 1 year ago

    So many people work overtime without getting paid just so they can move up in the company. It's sad, but it is very common in businesses.

  • Postumo #56 1 year ago

    What? No respect for the working man rights? this game is a "no buy" for me, as I don't like bosses who think they can force people to work overtime without being paid: more work, more money, that's the only way

  • Murton #57 1 year ago

    @postumo More work = more money is something of a idealistic attitude. Paid overtime raises issues not only in terms of sorting out that money but there's profit/loss and tax to be taken into accout as well. That why industries which do a lot of overtime tend to give time off in lieu in return for the extra hours. Take it from someone who has tried it both ways, I'd much rather get extra paid leave for my time than extra money in my bank but be too busy working to enjoy it.

    Time of in lieu is the simplest way for companies to reward overtime and it's more beneficial to the workforce too as it encourages/provides sufficient rest time. TOIL is the best way for everyone, everyone knows exactly what to expect and everyone's interests are supported, it really is the only way to ensure that everyone gets a fair deal.

  • kongzi #58 1 year ago

    There are too many games, too many developers, not enough publishers, too many people that want to work at developers. So everything becomes a commodity: games, people, creativity. If we don't want that.. we should start paying MORE for games that do LESS and take LONGER to make. It is what it is, and it is what we all made it to be.

    And like i said before, if you want to be mr family man and watch your kid's first steps and all that, don't go work in one of the most competitive, booming, cutthroat entertainment industries around. It's simple, don't be an idiot

  • strangerism #59 1 year ago

    so much work and money wasted for nothing really (a video game). seriously I should start reconsider playing games anymore and do something worth in life
    Edited by strangerism at 18/01/11 @ 19:01

  • kangarootoo #60 1 year ago

    @dirtysteve

    In response to your query, I've worked for a variety of companies over nearly a decade (n00b), and the only significant crunch I did was lates and weekends for a month. Once.