No APB refunds, but EA offers free games

By Oli Welsh Published 27 September, 2010

Administrators and Steam wash hands.

The administrators for Dundee developer Realtime Worlds are not offering refunds to players who bought copies of and subscriptions to its defunct online game APB, and neither is digital distribution service Steam.

Publisher EA, however, is said to be offering discount vouchers and free games to players disappointed by APB's closure after just two and a half months of service.

According to Gamasutra, administrator Begbies Traynor would only refer customers back to their point of sale. "Customers should revert to the entity from which they bought the game in respect of their entitlement to any refund," the firm said.

If that entity was Steam, you're out of luck, with the service's operator Valve simply refusing any refund. "As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges for purchases made online as outlined in the software license."

However, according to a thread on the Steam forums (via Destructoid), EA customer support is more sympathetic. Players are saying they've received $20 discount vouchers or even free games when they've approached EA with complaints.

APB's pay-as-you-go subscription method meant that players were promised 50 hours of online action gameplay with their purchase, and may have purchased additional hours in bulk before the game service was shut down.

Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (42) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Avaloner #1 2 years ago

    EA to the rescue. Honestly... these days I just love EA

  • fknetwork #2 2 years ago

    This game is STILL for sale in Tesco for £25, saw it yesterday!

  • Lionheart #3 2 years ago

    I'd love to have good chat with a big APB fan and see how annoyed they actually are.

  • actionfitz #4 2 years ago

    pricks.
    I still have about 48-50 hours of playtime left on my copy.
    I was saving it for when the game was fixed/got better...
    that worked out well eh?... :/
    harrumph!

  • Squire #5 2 years ago

    Surely the Steam thing is not legal?

  • roz123 #6 2 years ago

    EA were the publisher, Valve would have have given the majority of money spent on the game through steam to EA and realtime. So if they were to give stuff away for free they will probably be making a loss because of someone elses fuck ups.

  • Subquest #7 2 years ago

    fknetwork - you can get PC games in Tescos? Non of the local Asda Sainsburys and indeed Tescos round here (north Leeds) sell PC games any more.

  • fknetwork #8 2 years ago

    @Subquest
    Yeah, our tescos is huge though, feels like a day out just to go shopping lol, half of the third floor is the pc and console section and they do have a pretty big selection of pc games, top 40 chart and cheaper ones too, same for the consoles.

  • mumblyjoe #9 2 years ago

    How exactly is this a valve/steam problem? They only sold the game. Pretty sure you can't take a game back to a shop just because the company running it went bust.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #10 2 years ago

    EA weren't the publisher, they were just the distributor for boxed copies, just as Valve are distributor (and retailer) for the online copies. Realtime Worlds were the publisher, which is why they were exposed to so much risk, which is (partly) why they went tits up.

    There are all sorts of rules about companies in administration that mean they can get away without paying back money owed to people in exchange for stuff they haven't yet received. EA are just playing nice in order to create good public relations. Valve clearly seem to think they don't need to.
    Edited by MENTAL1ST at 27/09/10 @ 09:54

  • roz123 #11 2 years ago

    @actionfitz. Go on the EA support and try and get yourself a refund voucher or another game then.

  • roz123 #12 2 years ago

    EA were the publisher. Heres a quote from the article

    "Publisher EA, however, is said to be offering discount vouchers and free games to players disappointed by APB's closure after just two and a half months of service. "

    If anyone bothers to read the link to the steam forums provided it shows that people who brought through steam are getting discounts from EA

  • kangarootoo #13 2 years ago

    @Squire

    If Steam was based in the UK they (being the point of sale) would have to give refunds.

  • Cronan #14 2 years ago

    I hope we've finally all learned our lessons about paying for premium and long-term access to any online service, especially MMOs. Oh, and Valve can suck my dirk.

  • schnide #15 2 years ago

    Right, that's it - I'm not buying any more Realtime Worlds games from now on.

  • linksdad #16 2 years ago

    Two words, credit card chargeback. Ok three.

    The onus is always on the retailer. They sold goods or services that could not be obtained/not fit for the purpose. Thats why they make a profit on stuff, and its not always a one way street, you sometimes have to give customer service and take it on the chin.

  • cen4pgb #17 2 years ago

    @link'sdad

    It was fit for purpose when they sold it though, if you could play it at the moment steam sold it to you (ignoring download time) then you'll find it was fit for purpose when sold. So unless they sold it to you after the announcement it was shutting down you have no chance.

  • roz123 #18 2 years ago

    EA as publisher are offering refunds for STEAM users with free games such as Mass Effect 2, Dragon age 2 and Battlfield Bad company 2.

  • BobsUncle #19 2 years ago

    Heh, a while back I jokingly commented that I'd only used 3 of my 50 hours and do I get a refund. I never expected anyone to get one.

    Good for EA I say, Valve are too far up their own arse to care.

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #20 2 years ago

    Sorry to say this but you can't really expect Steam/Valve to give refunds on a game they don't own, digital or not they are still just a retailer - you go into Game, Asda, Gamestation, HMV, or basically most places they clearly state no refunds on games where an account key is used, this is 90% of the time PC games all over and 100% of MMOs have that clause in them, once the key is used, you can't return it.

    If this was TF2,HF, Portal, L4D Valve would instantly sort somthing out, they aren't Activision, but sadly it's not, this is why I only buy pre-purchase with a beta on MMOs with Stream (or really anyone with a MMO I don't know of) at least they offer refunds before the day, but props to EA for at least trying to sort somthing out.

    Oh and the Tesco thing isn't new Tabular Tasa was still on sale in places a year after it closed
    Edited by Kremlik at 27/09/10 @ 10:39

  • Mkwone #21 2 years ago

    I remember when EA used to be Satan.

  • Spekingur #22 2 years ago

    Steam thing isn't legal? Sorry, but where you live, are you able to return a game you buy in a brick-and-mortar store that you have opened and played for some time? Because I sure as hell can't.

    Props for EA though. Well done.
    Edited by Spekingur at 27/09/10 @ 10:51

  • lockload #23 2 years ago

    @roz123 you point is irrelevant as the retailing agent the customer contract is with them and under the sale of good act products need to be fit for purpose and i think it is very reasonable to expect a purchase to be active for more than 2.5 months

    Anyone who purchased from steam in the uk contact trading standards and watchdog

  • TheApologist #24 2 years ago

    People blaming Steam is baffling me. Steam did not promise to provide you with 50 hours gaming and Valve aren't holding your cash. I guess according to the license it was either EA or Realtime Worlds.

    If I went to buy a game at HMV and was sold a defective disk I'd take it back to HMV. But I wouldn't go back to HMV if I'd bought a WoW pack (or whatever) in store and suddenly they went bust or their servers were down. I'd complain to Blizzard or their administrators.

    The equivalent in the digital retail space might be if Steam sent you a download that was somehow corrupt. That isn't what happened. RTW's administrators are screwing you over, not Valve. And they're doing that because RTW blew all their cash and their game flopped.

    Get angry, but not at Valve.

    @lockload - but the product you bought at the point of sale does work. That product gives you access to an ongoing service provided by someone else. Your point isn't relevant. You didn't buy a jumper, you bought a service provided by someone other than the retail outlet, and you knew that at the time you purchased.
    Edited by TheApologist at 27/09/10 @ 11:06

  • IronCladChicken #25 2 years ago

    Game arn't offering refunds either - classic Game!

  • thestjohn #26 2 years ago

    I bet the administrator's costs come to about what it would take to refund everybody who bought a copy and to pay the wages of those ex-RTW staff laid off without pay. I wonder why it costs so much money for a bunch of people to turn around and say "there is no money"

  • Kami #27 2 years ago

    I'd like to see Activision offer something like that, but they're too far up their own arses these days to see problems.

    Sorry, but with Kotick's latest outburst it had to be said.

  • sink257 #28 2 years ago

    Well the game does have the EA logo on the box, so people are bound to assume the game is related to EA. Hence they had to do this lest it tarnish the image of the company.

  • chrisjm #29 2 years ago

    another reason why im against steam (

    they say no
    you claim on credit card
    steam disable ALL your games

  • deano2099 #30 2 years ago

    There's a difference between apportioning blame, and legal recourse. It's not Steam's fault at all that RTW went bust. Nor is it the fault of GAME or HMV either.

    However, in UK law, the contract of a sale is between the consumer and retailer. When the retailer purchases items from the publisher or distributor, then sells those items on to the consumer, they take on the risk of the product being faulty or whatever. It's the responsibility of the retailer to make sure what they are selling works and isn't faulty. If it is, the chain goes: customer claims from retailer, retailer claims from distributor. That chain exists entirely to offer extra protection to the customer, if they don't even offer that, what's the point of a middle-man at all?

    Manufacturers may opt to offer warranties and other extended protections, but that's at their discretion. If you purchase goods that are faulty, you can take them back to retailer for a refund.

    Of course, there's two big issues here that muddy the waters:
    1) Is APB 'goods' or is it a service? One could argue either way, as with most MMOs. There's no real good legal precedents for this yet.
    2) What constitutes 'fit for purpose'? There was no inherent flaw at the point of sale: the thing did stop working after three months, but no-one knew that it would. Or did they? How bad were RTW's financials?

    It's muddy, muddy water, complicated by a load of other things: some people will have used all 50 hours' play time, others won't have opened the box, Steam will bypass all your consumer rights by just threatening to disable all your games - which makes them one of the scarier companies out there - can't wait to see that one tested in court.

    This really just highlights the need for new legislation in order to offer consumer protection in this area. EA are likely offering compensation to avoid anyone actually trying any legal claims that will set new precedents. The way things work at the moment is really not okay though - a consumer shouldn't be able to buy a game and have it stop working a week later for no reason. Within the next ten years I expect updates to the relevant laws to clarify this sort of situation, and I'm pretty sure they won't just say "the consumer is screwed". I imagine they'll place the risk with the retailer (a situation where consumers are left claiming from an administrator is generally to be avoided). We shall see.

  • argus_raphite #31 2 years ago

    @Kremlik my local HMV still stocks copies of Tabula Rasa xD

  • roz123 #32 2 years ago

    @deano2009

    I think the whole situation is cleared up by the terms and conditions you agree with before buying the game through steams service

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #33 2 years ago

    I think the whole situation is cleared up by the terms and conditions you agree with before buying the game through steams service

    That's what the operators of Steam would like you to believe, but Deano is right on the money with regards to local trading laws and legal precedent.

    "Your statutory rights are unaffected"

  • coolbritannia #34 2 years ago

    Classic example of consumers not knowing their rights. As a game purchased in the UK, that ceased to function after 2.5 months, you are entitled to a refund. This is exactly the same law that forced retailers to start replacing 360's that RROD'd within the first 12 months.

  • dingo75 #35 2 years ago

    Steam thing isn't legal? Sorry, but where you live, are you able to return a game you buy in a brick-and-mortar store that you have opened and played for some time? Because I sure as hell can't.


    Here in Germany you can bring games back that don't work on your computer due to technical issues.
    Starforce protected (infected) games were taken back opened without many questions and also Ubifail's Ubilauncher games were returned relatively easily when the authentication servers died all the time.

    The law asks for "2 repair attempts the seller can try on faulty products" (impossible if the copy protection is the issue and the developer doesn't patch it quick). After those 2 tries failed or aren't possible to do you can ask your money back.
    Edited by dingo75 at 27/09/10 @ 15:41

  • homerbert #36 2 years ago

    @thestjohn

    @thestjohn

    "I bet the administrator's costs come to about what it would take to refund everybody who bought a copy and to pay the
    wages of those ex-RTW staff laid off without pay."
    I will take that bet.

    " I wonder why it costs so much money for a bunch of people to turn around and say "there is no money" "

    Maybe because it is more complicated than that. In this case there is money, in the form of intangible assets (IP, code etc), tangible assests (furniture, PCs, office space), debts, future income streams (royalties etc)
    Edited by homerbert at 27/09/10 @ 16:05

  • hiddenranbir #37 2 years ago

    EA > Steam

    So glad EA didn't decide to lock their games to a single distributor, instead they've neutralised it with game codes that can link to their EADM whether you bought from Steam, Impulse, GG, D2D, retail etc.

  • sneetch #38 2 years ago

    @deano2099
    There's a difference between apportioning blame, and legal recourse. It's not Steam's fault at all that RTW went bust. Nor is it the fault of GAME or HMV either.

    However, in UK law, the contract of a sale is between the consumer and retailer. When the retailer purchases items from the publisher or distributor, then sells those items on to the consumer, they take on the risk of the product being faulty or whatever. It's the responsibility of the retailer to make sure what they are selling works and isn't faulty.

    Surely the game did work. Only for a few months perhaps but the game worked. If Steam were still selling the game after the servers went down (or even after the announcement) then I think they'd be liable, but surely it's not their responsibility to compensate you after the company shuts down the service?

  • deano2099 #39 2 years ago

    @roz123
    Terms and conditions can never override your statutory rights. For an example, imagine if I were to put a clause in some Terms that said you had to hand over your first-born to me after playing the game for six months. And you agreed because you didn't read through the Terms properly. Would you just shrug and say "well I agreed to it, there's nothing I can do". Or would you say "don't be silly, there's no way that can be legal!"

    This is the same thing, though obviously on a much smaller scale.

    @sneetch
    If you bought a TV and that stopped working after 3 months you'd just be okay with that? It's different, as if a TV breaks after 3 months, it must have been a manufacturing defect. Hence I say, it's a grey area. But yes, the responsibility is with the retailer. Again, say you bought a TV from Tesco, a Samsung TV. And then Samsung went bust, and your TV broke down a month later. Would you just shrug that off, or would you get a refund from Tesco? Because you'd be entitled to one.

    It's this strange thing with games, and even other technology, that is blurring the lines. Apple resellers will often send people to Apple for support and so on. But the reality is that the laws are set up so that, if a product is broken, the customer should only ever have to go back to the retailer. The customer should never be dealing with the manufacturer directly unless they bought it directly

    It all seems silly to argue it over a £30 game, especially when most people got at least some play out of it. It's not really a big deal. But the wider ranging implications are. What amazes me is the amount of people that seem desperate to throw away any consumer rights and say "tough luck, hahaha" to people that bought APB. If we ignore our consumer rights, then when the new laws on digital distribution platforms and online games do get drafted, we're going to get screwed.

    (For the record, I didn't buy APB, and while I think Steam is 'scary' I still own hundreds of games on there. I'm not some bitter pissed-off hater).

    (edited to add: of course it's unfair that retailers are responsible to the consumer when a manufacturer goes bust. But it's set up that way as they have a much better chance getting some of that money back from the administrators than any individual user has. It's also that way to put the onus on the retailer to ensure they're not selling substandard or faulty goods - obviously without that it's hugely exploitable - "what, the TV I sold you doesn't work, don't talk to me mate, ask the manufacturer"
    Edited by deano2099 at 27/09/10 @ 18:20

  • Seehuusen #40 2 years ago

    It's funny to see how EA turned from beast to beauty since riccotello took over as boss, now we can go troll activision, or maybe even valve, they havn't been doing any good stuff lately, only things like this, charging europeans extra cause 1 $ = 1 euro, etc.

  • linksdad #41 2 years ago

    Since when did EG become the home of the corporate apologist?

  • hobojebus #42 2 years ago

    As someone who's had to deal with people from trading standards i know a little about this and i can tell you the shop is legaly obliged to help a customer if the product fails within 5 years of purchase provided its failure is not due to the user.

    When shops tell you that you have 12 months to return the item thats actually a lie, which is why them selling you insurance is such a big con they are bound by the law.

    Steam sold you a product that stopped working in months through no fault of yours, under UK law they cant refuse to refund you.