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Mizuguchi defends Lumines 360 News
Xbox 360 News by Tom Bramwell
Lumines creator Tetsuya Mizuguchi has defended the decision to offer a lot of the Xbox Live Arcade version's content as downloadable extras rather than including them in the full game.
Lumines Live launched yesterday, and is the joint most expensive game on the service at 1200 Microsoft points (GBP 10.20 / EUR 13.96), but it's the manner in which Q Entertainment asks users for extra investment to customise the game that's drawn early criticism.
An "Advance Pack" (as-yet unreleased) will cost 600 Microsoft points (GBP 5.10 / EUR 6.98) while other game modes feature only a handful of levels, and prompt the gamer to watch out for further downloadable add-ons in future.
Mizuguchi told IGN that one reason for the download/pricing strategy was technical ("We have to include everything in 50MB") but that the other reason was the desire to let people customise Lumines. "We want people to look at Lumines and, depending on the artist, or the season, or the music, we want to give them different reasons to consider buying the game," he explained.
Future updates may add additional features as well as skins (which add new music and backgrounds, and also vary gameplay conditions), he said. "Maybe there will be new ways that we erase the blocks in the future. Maybe we add different shapes or forms or colors; right now there are no limits or boundaries. Maybe users might give us new ideas. We're hoping to hear from users what they would like to see in future updates, in fact. They will help guide us to create new updates," he added.
The veteran designer also said that it might be possible in future to support more than two people in the game's online multiplayer mode. "Maybe in the future four players will work," he told IGN. "We even tested with six to eight players, and we didn't accomplish the ideal scenario with that many players, so at this point we just aren't satisfied with what we came up with. So for now it's a two-player game."
Look out for our review of Lumines Live in the very near future.
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22 June, 2007 [0]
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escapedape
19/10/06 @ 08:28
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He clearly doesn't even get why people are so upset at the underhanded way that this is sold and the shocking lack of content for such an expensive Live game. The 'we want players to customise their game' is all well and good, but to be forced into buying your other game modes - and this is basically what's happening here, content is being deliberately left out - is appalling.
To those who will say 'but I would pay £30 for this as it's essentially a full price title', I say release it as a £30 title, put it in a box with ALL of the content, 1000 achievement points etc. Well yeah, that and the fact that it is NOT a complete product as is. Bankshot Billiards contains a wealth of content for its 1200 points and yet does still feel overpriced next to 800 point games such as Cloning Clyde, Outpost Kaloki X, Mutant Storm Reloaded and Marble Blast Ultra. Lumines, with its 'thanks for playing the few levels we gave you, now buy more', just feels wrong. |
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There's no excuse for failing to clarify that the 1200pt game is not the full game. (calling it a base pack, when no other packs are even available doesn't suffice)
I'm beginning to think the marketplace should be for free content only, this microtransaction/nickel and dime drama will inevitably only get worse. |
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played it and to be honest I didn't love it, Hexic is better and it's free. If it was cheaper it would be a no brainer as I love puzzle games but yeah I feel like I'm being led round the back of Aldi to get my phone nicked.
Next we'll be paying for "options" screens! you just wait and see! Now you can turn the SFX Up and down for 600mp!! |
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spidermanalf
19/10/06 @ 08:33
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It feels like I have paid all those points for a glorified demo.
It is just wrong. The full game should be a proper game, not 5 levels and then 'buy more'. Bag of toss. |
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If Microsoft are aware of this travesty and misuse of the live arcade model, then they should pull this title. It clearly is being sold in a misleading fashion. As others have mentioned, you are paying for a demo!
Microsoft, if you actually pay any attention to your paying public, pull this shite until they see sense and replace it with the new mutant storm or some other product. Unless of course you want to encourage live arcade game writers to rip off your subscribers! |
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escapedape
19/10/06 @ 08:38
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The thing is, it seems to have come from the greediness of Q Entertainment - up until now, Live Arcade has not had anything which has felt like a con.
Games such as Crystal Quest offer extra sound and skin packs which genuinely allow consumers to customise their game if they want to - without crippling the main product by holding back content. It is genuinely optional, and the way that Lumines is structured feels anything but. Likewise, Outpost Kaloki X has downloads for extra scenarios (some of which are free!), so if you enjoy the main game (which is already very fully featured - along with two story modes it has a scenario mode featuring plenty of extra levels) you are given the option of buying the extra stuff to have more to play with. Crucially - and this is where Lumines falls down - the main game does not feel cut down, or that it is missing this extra content. Lumines feels like a demo for the main game, and at 1200 points it is absolutely disgusting that there is such a lack of content in the game. |
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schoozzzmmii
19/10/06 @ 08:39
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Where's the rest of the game!
It's like buying a car and being told that the wheels are optional extras. |
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groovychainsaw
19/10/06 @ 08:41
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There will be extra packs for each of the play modes coming soon, I have read somewhere, so ultimately we will be looking at more than the PSP/PS2 versions for the same functionality. Luckily I only downloadxed the demo first, didnt think too much of it, and decided it was too expensive nayway. There was no way I was going to keep paying for it....
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escapedape
19/10/06 @ 08:43
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@ Bill Door
The problem is that we're being told that the game features lots more than it actually does. The Vs. CPU mode has ONE LEVEL - and if you want to play more of it, you have to shell out for a pack that isn't even available yet. So users can't 'customise' the experience even if they want to, and they are shelling out for a glorified demo which features less content than many of the 800 point (and, frankly, some 400 point) games. |
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I call BS on this too, and I usually buy just about anything on live, have bought most of the arcade titles so far (even scramble!) but the bottom line is- I just didnt see what all the hype was about, its tetris with prettier graphics to me (am I missing something?)
Its hardly a full title as stated earlier, and what there is isnt worth the extortionate price anyway. Keep it mizuguchi-san |
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Sounds just like a big money grab to me.... I think he took it a bit far, no way that Lumines is worth so much money. I can understand his ideas but they really fucked up with this one... next time why not make the base Lumines free and charge for extra packs.
Edited 2 times,
most recently on 19/10/06 @ 09:58
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Wrestlevania
19/10/06 @ 08:57
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"We've recognised it's a cash cow -- we're just going to milk it, that's all."
Kindly sod off. |
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asphaltcowboy
19/10/06 @ 09:04
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Hmm, as much as I want to play Lumines (I'm not buying a PSP) I think I'll wait til they sort this out/release everything in one big pack! I wouldn't mind paying £10 for it... as long as it was the full game!
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Obviously took a look at how GT is going to work on the PS3...
Err... no this pricing structure has been rumoured ever since Lumines 360 was announced (Waaay before TGS), if anything it's the other way round. ;) Polyphony even admitted they were selling a gloriied Demo. A bit of a weak excuse though i'm sure MS has some nice Compression techniques they didn't use. |
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Not to put people down or anything, but why don't all of you who paid for Lumines in full and -rightfully in my opinion- feel cheated, let Microsoft know your feelings by asking for a refund, and encourage others in the same boat as you do likewise? There are more chances to address this by notifing them directly than complaining in EG's comments/forums (even if Peter Moore is reading them :).
This must be rectified and Microsoft is the only one with the responsibility to persuade Mizuguchi and Co. to conform. |
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Stormflood
19/10/06 @ 09:13
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My gf forced me to buy it last night. She loved it on PSP. It wasn't long before we discovered I'd paid for half a ****ing game!
Absolute rip-off. |
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escapedape
19/10/06 @ 09:14
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@JonFE
For the record, I haven't downloaded it. Everything on the Marketplace does come with a disclaimer which states that no refunds are available for the content downloaded. Head over to http://www.majornelson.com and check out how people ARE giving MS a hard time over this! |
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asphaltcowboy
19/10/06 @ 09:18
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@trav:
brought it where?
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most recently on 19/10/06 @ 10:18
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I don't mind at all that they release packs for added content to the different features in the game.
In fact - I think it is great. I love Lumines on the PSP but I never gotten into the Puzzle Mode. I tried the Puzzle Mode yesterday on Lumines Live and realized I just don't like it. This means I save some cash on a feature I don't want to use. In the end the prize for the "full game" (all packs) seems to be cheaper than what I paid for Lumines on my PSP (or Lumines onmy phone actually) and definitely cheaper than Lumines 2. As for being half a game. Well, I had a fun time yesteray playing the challenge mode and then some puzzle mode and ended up being completely creamed in Multiplayer Battle over Live (it was pathetic to see how bad I was/good that guy was). But .... as much as I don't mind packs etc. - why the hell didn't they at least have everything out yesterday? Now I play the Versus CPU mode and get 1 lousy level and then a message that I can get more by buying a non-existant pack?? It's the way the released this that irritates me. Just clearly on the download page state exactly what is included in the base pack and then have all the other packs ready so that the consumer can pick and choose what he likes? Isntead now we get people wondering why they cannot keep playing the mode they want just becasue the packs isn't out. So - in contrast to many here I neither think it is bad to slice the game up and offer various packs or that the base pack (or the game with all packs) is overpriced. I just find it stupid to release it without the extra content that we need. Oh, and they could include a few more versus CPU modes IMHO. /B |
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Oh, and to everyone saying that you are glad you never bought it. The game actually is good. It's Lumines and if you liked it on the PSP you will like it here (at least I did).
It's not like you cannot play anything in the base-pack. The challenge mode seems to have enough to keep you playing for quite some time (I opened up 3 new skins during the evening) and had some nice games over Live plus it seems to have at least 5 or 6 puzzle levels? So I don't personally feel like it is "half a game". The single versus CPu level though is way to little. And why didn't they just release all the packs at the same time? /B |
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crazyhorse174
19/10/06 @ 09:30
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Downloaded the demo last night, played it a bit and didnt think much of it.
I'll stick with the PSP thankyouverymuch and maybe think about paying for the Live one later if they drop the price or give away some of the addons for nothing. Incidentally, heres a point. Normal boxed games depreciate in price as the age. Will Live games do the same? (i.e. will the first batch of Live games released, be available cheaper, or even for free in the next few months - seeing as how they've been on Live for about a year?) |
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"It still works out cheaper than buying the PSP version, so whats the problem?"
fuck off. you can get the psp version cheap or second hand. thats the problem with these online transaction you pay what they say and shut up. its the way they want it this gen, its to stop games being re-sold ect. every game bought means every penny goes to them. but also this gen is all about squeezing the last penny out of gamers. dont fall for it. basically its a "here is a disk and bare bones game, then pay money to flesh it out" situation which is dressed up as give the gamer a choice. it could be the last gen i am investing if this continues. I can see the PC taking off massive with cheap indy developers. over the next 3-5 years. |
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1200 point version should be 400 points if anything as it's a demo. Other option is to upgrade the demo version to the 1200 point version.
600 point upgrade should be 400 points (or 800 - 1200 if demo is upgraded). The other two should be 200-250 points. This backlash is almost universal and pretty funny. |
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crazyhorse174
19/10/06 @ 09:53
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"It still works out cheaper than buying the PSP version, so whats the problem?"
I got the PSP version for £15 brand new from Game. Could've probably got it cheaper second-hand, but wanted a new copy. Oh, and I dont have to download any of the "extra" levels for it when I advance enough... |
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Carpathian
19/10/06 @ 10:11
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There's a lot of brown-stuff being flung around by people at the moment on this - can I just check I have the facts straight before deciding whether to go with this or not:-
* 5 levels out of the 50 * 1 level out of the 10 * Only 12 skins * No video and other features in the demo version at all * £10 for the things above - pay for the rest. |
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I don't mind EXTRA material. But what we have here is a crippled full version game where I have to keep on paying to recieve it entirely.
It is a case of bullshit and I am boycotting it. Luckely one can enjoy Lumines on other platforms. Free even: http://www.frogtoss.com/verticube
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most recently on 19/10/06 @ 11:17
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@Carpathian - Is that all you get for £10? I've played free demos that had more content than that! /shock
That means that in order to get the full game which has around 5-10 times more content, you're looking at paying at least £50!!! /double shock I like the game but anything over £10 and I'd rather have it on a disc and the COMPLETE game for £20 as it's nowhere near worth £50 in my opinion. Also at least I'd be able to lend the game out, trade it in or play it on a friend's 360. |
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Actually its an even bigger rip off than i first thought.
You aren't even getting a physical item you can resell its locked to you and thats it. At least if you pay £10 for lumines on the PSP you can trade it in for half price when your bored of it. Here your paying full wack for half a product have to shell out an unknown amount more to get access t5o something you already should have and then can't even trade it in ... total ripoff sorry. |
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