GT5 Time Trial 720p/1080p analysis

By Richard Leadbetter Published 16 December, 2009

Digital Foundry takes it for a spin.

It's the must-have download this Christmas. Polyphony Digital is on the brink of launching a brand new Gran Turismo 5 demo, and we've got an early preview. Already its treasures have been plundered with a 1080p screenshot gallery and an HD edit showing off the intro screen, gameplay and replay quality. Now it's time to put the code up to the usual DF image quality and performance tests.

First things first, there has been some talk about this sampler not actually being a GT5 demo. This is true in the sense that it is a one-circuit, lap-time-driven time trial: an extremely small, very limited and ultra cut-down version of what promises to be one of the most content-rich games seen on console. However, the wording on the splash screen itself confirms that - in the eyes of Polyphony Digital at least - this is indeed a "GT5 demo", representative of the driving experience of the full game.

'GT5 Time Trial 720p/1080p analysis' Screenshot demo1
'GT5 Time Trial 720p/1080p analysis' Screenshot demo2

The demo's splash screen confirms that this is indeed a GT5 demo, though content and options are limited for the purposes of the time trial competition.

In terms of actual rendering spec, not much has changed at all from the GT5 Prologue code. Limit your PS3 to 720p mode and you get native resolution with 4x multi-sampling anti-aliasing (MSAA). Invoke the might of 1080p, and the framebuffer is set at 1280x1080. That's a 50 per cent resolution increase over 720p mode, with AA dropped to 2x. The RSX scaler then presumably kicks in with its horizontal bilinear resize to 1920x1080, and the HUD elements are overlaid on top of that. While GT5P ran its menu screens at full 1080p, it appears that the new demo's intro screens stick with the same resolution as gameplay.

'GT5 Time Trial 720p/1080p analysis' Screenshot 720p1
'GT5 Time Trial 720p/1080p analysis' Screenshot 720p2
'GT5 Time Trial 720p/1080p analysis' Screenshot 1080p1
'GT5 Time Trial 720p/1080p analysis' Screenshot 1080p2

Rendering tech looks mostly unchanged from the GT5 Prologue. Top shots give examples of the 720p mode in action, while the bottom shots showcase the 1080p display.

Content-wise, there's just the one track - the Indianapolis racing circuit - and a mere brace of cars. Well, just the one really: the Nissan 370Z, but selectable in both road-going and racing-spec. The various race options found in GT5 Prologue, including driver-aid selection, are off-limits in order to make sure that everyone faces the same driving challenge. This is an online time trial, after all, and times need to be like-for-like.

For those not used to the simulation settings of Gran Turismo, this makes the two vehicles included in the demo something of a handful. The road version of the 370Z in particular feels like an absolute lump, while keeping the rear end of the race-spec version under control takes some doing, especially if you've conditioned yourself to Forza Motorsport 3's arcade handling options in recent months.

So, in terms of stuff to render at any given point, this GT5 demo is fairly simplistic: just a single car (two if you count the ghost), and a fairly unambitious track. In theory this should be a walk in the park for the GT5 engine - the very best conditions for the engine to shine. Two performance tests were in order. We ran laps in both in-car and external views, and we also ran them both at 720p and 1080p. Where possible we tried to keep the ghost vehicle in our sights as much as possible to add that extra level of stress to the engine. First up, the 720p performance test:

Performance analysis of the game running in 720p mode.

Around five per cent of the total 60Hz output consisted of torn frames, with a minimum frame-rate of 52FPS. It's interesting to note that the combination of rendering the fence and the ghost car simultaneously appears to have the most impact on frame-rate, but it is a touch concerning that such a basic-looking track with just one other car in view should affect performance at all. Switching to 1080p, the same test was re-run.

GT5's 1080p mode really is very impressive, with only a small performance penalty over the 720p mode, which isn't noticeable at all within this demo.

Results were fairly similar: the same low of 52FPS, though the torn frame count elevated to around 12 per cent of the system's output. Overall, this seems to be in keeping with the approximate performance level that we saw in GT5 Prologue in much the same conditions. Whether it will be improved in the final game out next year remains to be seen, though it should be pointed out that the gamescom demo we saw earlier in the year also ran in a very similar fashion to Prologue.

It's interesting to note Polyphony's approach to the ghost lap. Rather than render the car as a transparency, an interlaced approach is used in order to lower bandwidth and fill-rate. Maintaining 60FPS is a tough call and while Forza 3 is probably the better example of a game that cuts down its alpha textures to an absolute minimum, GT5 too uses similar tricks in order to maintain frame-rate. Alpha-to-coverage (a cheaper transparency technique) is used in both games, though the use of MSAA does mitigate the screen-door effect.

As you would expect from a Polyphony Digital game, overall image quality is outstanding, although it is rather odd that the low-quality shadow filtering should look quite as jaggy as it does considering that (certainly in 720p mode), GT has plenty of MSAA to make things look smoother.

Content-wise, obviously the demo is rather limited. It is what it is: a one-circuit time trial. In that respect, it works rather well. Racing against your own best lap-time via the provided ghost driver is great fun and having Kazunori Yamauchi's personal best on-screen at every given moment offers plenty of encouragement to refine your skills.

Picture of Richard.

About Richard Leadbetter

Rich has been a games journalist since the days of 16-bit and specialises in technical analysis. Commonly known around Eurogamer as the Blacksmith of the Future.

Read more articles from Richard by visiting the Richard Leadbetter archive page.

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Comments (179) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • darren1976 #1 2 years ago

    Looking forward to trying the demo. Lucky enough to own both consoles and I play Forza 3 with all aids off whereby the cars are a handful. Interesting to see how the handling on GT5 compares, the amount of time in development means GT5 should be outstanding, lets hope they have spent the time wisely.

  • dsmx #2 2 years ago

    Digital foundry needs to get a member of staff who can drive.

  • berelain #3 2 years ago

    Yoink. Some of those visuals look pretty awful- the trees are woefully basic, look like they could have come out of Forza 2 or GT4. I hope the full game does manage to keep a rock solid 60fps; it makes such a difference in a racer. Forza 3 might not have the looks to match GT5, but it does at least stick to its framerate.

    Also really hope they've worked on the AI a lot since GT5:p when the full game comes around. But thats neither here nor there for this feature, really (:

  • Milk #4 2 years ago

    I'm guessing that this comments thread is going to get quite messy.

    I hope GT is worthy of the build up when we get to play it next summer(?), and I wonder how far we will all be off the winning lap time . . .

  • wizlon #5 2 years ago

    Is this one of those time trial challenges where after hours of pushing yourself, cutting down your time inch by inch and memorising the exact location of every bump and camber in the road, you'll still be a couple of seconds off the best time, with no idea how they managed to get it.

  • Beano #6 2 years ago

    "Digital foundry needs to get a member of staff who can drive."

    It's hard to drive AND draw a graph on a piece of paper at the same time - you try it!

  • tachometer #7 2 years ago

    Bland Turismo !

  • linea #8 2 years ago

    Nice. The 1080p mode is very impressive.

    I like the touch of having Kazunori Yamauchi's best time on screen. I had the pleasure of besting Che Chou from Turn 10 at Forza 3 in an online race a couple of weeks back- very satisfying. It's not often you get to say you've literally beaten someone at their own game :)

  • LordVonPS3 #9 2 years ago

    I'm not sure what DF's point is with that opening statement... Why comment that this "sampler" is a demo of GT5? Is GT5P a demo of GT5 as well... or not?

    What should the splash screen text say if it doesn't mention GT5? It is not as if the engine comes from GT4, GTHD or GT5P - is it? The time trial demo is mere showcase advertising for the GT5 game but that doesn't imply and I don't agree that it means the demo is "representative of the driving experience of the full game" (DF's term).

    The time trial uses a very limited and reduced feature set of the GT5 engine, the textures & sound assets are compressed for the purposes of getting the PSN download to as many people as possible. No damage, no day / night or weather. No confirmation that the physics engine - or car simulation physics won't change further. This demo doesn't aim to confirm anything other than *who will qualify for the national finals to compete in the GT Academy*. That is the main purpose of this taster.

    As interesting as these performance statistics are, I find it confusing that DF would claim that GT5 will handle / play exactly like this demo. It is logical that when damage, day / night cycles, etc are implemented, that there may be a hit on performance and game play. Improved textures and sound on the Blu-ray will make for a better all round experience. The final GT5 engine will no doubt see significant performance improvements if it should account for all these mid-race feature changes.

    Verdict: GT5 is subject to change.

  • cianchristopher #10 2 years ago

    It may well be subject to change - but they'd better sort the fucking framerate and tearing out before they release this game!

    Slowdown and tearing? In a game that took 6 years and $60million to make? Fuck off!
    Edited by 2 at 16/12/09 @ 13:53

  • E2K #11 2 years ago

    First of, it's funny that you keep mentioning the lowest framerate that is possible in the demo.
    This tells me the framerate is 59.9 frames per second overall, if it was lower, you would have stated something like:

    "It's a shame that the GT5 demo cannot maintain 60fps, unlike Forza3 which has a rock steady 60fps at all times" ;)

    (You cannot compare those two technically btw, one has true HDR, the other fake hdr. One has 100-400k ingame car models, the other one has not. I'm letting you guess which one, lol)

  • freakzilla #12 2 years ago

    I'm sure the real game looks much better, The tokyo track looked really impressive. Tomorrow can't come soon enough.

    I wonder what offended those 4 people who down voted me. I actually made a bit of effort not post anything inflammatory lol.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 22:58

  • El-Dev #13 2 years ago

    Hope this is put up early tomorrow on PSN.

  • Alkeno #14 2 years ago

    To be honest, if I were a PD executive and had to do this time trial add for Nissan, I'd take the easy route: Get Prologue and remove the unnecessary cars and circuits. So I believe this demo is likely to be more representative of GT5P than GT5.

    The tough part for PS3/PD fans is that I also don't think it won't make a difference at all. It seems logical that Prologue was launched once PD had their engine up and running with enough cars and tracks. Since then, most of their effort is likely to have been spent in doing assets like crazy for the remaining hundreds of cars and circuits. Touching the engine? A little maybe, a few tweaks, adding the infamous damage models... not much more. There isn't really a point in working on the engine, it was good enough in Prologue.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 14:19

  • cianchristopher #15 2 years ago

    But the engine wasn't good enough, though, was it?

    I noticed slowdown and screen tearing in GT5:p which I've never noticed in Forza 2 or 3....

    That's more important than resolution, to me...

    They need to sort it out, big time! This is Sony's Big Game™, it has to stand head-and-shoulders above the competition (and, by the way, I'm hoping it will!)

  • lukaz #16 2 years ago

    Hopes for solid 60fps without tearing in GT5 didn't improve with this "demo".

    I don't want to think about 16 cars on track, damage...

  • Beano #17 2 years ago

    "That's more important than resolution, to me... "

    Agreed - have you tried GT5:p in 720p ?

  • davisorle #18 2 years ago

    It was dumb seeing the fanboys trashing Forza 3 as a bad looking game but even worst seeing some now saying that this isnt GT5. Just do yourselves the favor and if you insist on doupting someone that iis talking in his own article so higly of such a bad demo ( who probably likes the franchise or whatever the reason he sounded so favorish to the demo ) at least click on the damn picture and see it saying "This is a demo of GT5 Time Trial". Specially talking to ppl in denial like LordVonPS3 ignoring the given facts.

    You will be getting the exact same freaking demo by Xmass. Wil you NOT dl it cause you deny to accept it being the demo it claims? FFS.... Anyhow. Its odd seeing so many ppl dissapointed from the looksof it and their reactions. Ill admit that even personally I expected it to be better graphically by now. Specialy after all this praise and hype and delays since they dsold to poor ppl Prologue I seriously didnt expect this. Since prologue the game's engine acording to the article hasnt really improved... Till a while back it was said that their damage model wasnt even as good as Forza 3 ( personally I dont care cause im not a racing lover in gaming just in RL i love speeding but thats it.. My Forza 3 isnt being used anymore already. Was great. bought it, enjoyed it a couple of weeks and thats it more or less ). What Im trying to do is understand how to excuse personally Polyphony;s delays of GT5 and nothing else.

    Im not flaming, even though im glad that the tards are dissapointed that were talking shit ever since Forza was announced. Really this is like perfect boomerang to them but when you think to the real hardcore gamers and racing / GT lovers its tough to see this. So long for no real improvements?

    @Richard. Dude ok, you did the article and analysis. There is way much more to say than just the FPS ( which is really a bad hint seeing a poor ghost car with FPS effected ). Id even expect you to compare and tell us how much better or worst it really is from Forza 3. just like you kept mentiioning KZ2 in Halo's Reach video etc. Poor analysis.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 14:36

  • Diomedes #19 2 years ago

    Uh ,its a 200Mb dowload created specifically for Gt Academy and with most of the data compressed .....are you serious to even analize this Richie?

  • GoldLightan #20 2 years ago

    Data compression is no excuse for terrible lighting, shadows and a dodgy framerate with just two cars on the track.

    In fact if anything, it can only get worse from here.

  • ronuds #21 2 years ago

    You guys are still denying this is GT5? Is it really THAT bad that you all want to deny that it's even the game? :D

    So Sony, DF and every other gaming publication has lied to us? That's what you're trying to have us believe? Even in the Sony statement about this demo, it clearly states that it's a taste of GT5. Stop it. Just stop it.

  • GreyBeard #22 2 years ago

    Terrible lighting? In a GT title?

    Hmmmm....

  • GoldLightan #23 2 years ago

    The TV refreshes at 60hz, so it needs to be that or a simple divisible factor, otherwise it will tear, so 60,30,20,15,12,10

  • tufty #24 2 years ago

    We all want GT5 to be great. If this demo is the current evolution from GT5P code, then perhaps GT5P is not so different to final release quality, with some minor improvements and damage, and of course, a TON of content. In that case, it would be a great game, though the screen tearing and frame dips are a bit of a damper.

    Frankly, it would be surprising if the final GT5 is somehow streets better than what we are seeing now.

    As for "CAR WARS" with Forza, I have Forza 3 and while it can be a sight to behold, it can also put out some dodgy visuals. No tearing or frame skips, but ugly shadows from cars abound, and something just doesn't look quite "real" most of the time. But I can't imagine anyone who likes driving games and doesn't like Forza 3. It's just a different set of compromises.

  • M_of_the_sys #25 2 years ago

    I won't be able to see the vids for a while yet. What's so dodgy about the framerate? How bad is the tearing?

  • Dizzy #26 2 years ago

    Are those spectators sprites?

  • penhalion #27 2 years ago

    Worried about this one as the ghost car affecting the framerate was a bit of a shocker. What the heck is this going to be like with 20=30 cars in a race at 1080p. I suspect that the 1080p thisng is simply a gimmick that can't actually be used in proper races without slowing things too much.

    However, 720p looks just fine to me.

  • GoldLightan #28 2 years ago

    @Dizzy

    [link url=http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2775/4186313392_73 b9f06b29_o.png
    ]http://fa rm3.static.flickr.com/2775/4186...[/link]

    :-D rofl!

  • davisorle #29 2 years ago

    @GoldLightan
    lol. Kodak momment indeed. I bet those things will go down the gaming history.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 16:12

  • DrStrangelove #30 2 years ago

    "Is this one of those time trial challenges where after hours of pushing yourself, cutting down your time inch by inch and memorising the exact location of every bump and camber in the road, you'll still be a couple of seconds off the best time, with no idea how they managed to get it."

    Yes it is.

  • LordVonPS3 #31 2 years ago

    @ svd_grasshopper.

    With a 60fps v-locked game, the console renders a complete scene and refreshes the display 60 times per second. If the game fails to update the scene in 1/60th of a second, then it can only update the scene at the next frame. That's a rate of 1 update every 2 refreshes at 60fps, which is 30 frames per second. If the console still hasn't rendered the scene after two refreshes, then it falls to the third refresh, which is 60 / 3 = 20 frames per second. This is classically termed "slow down"...

    If a 60fps game isn't v-locked, you'll see torn frames where the content of the buffer is displayed irrespective of whether the full scene was rendered or not. Digital Foundry considers a torn frame in a non-v-locked game as a frame 'dropped', hence for at 60fps game, if 5 frames are 'dropped' (i.e. torn), they'll state the game has a frame rate of 55fps. Digital Foundry captures thousands of frames and calculates and reports on an average frame rate.

    If the game runs at 30fps, it has twice as long as a 60fps game to render each scene.

    Uncharted 2 runs at 30fps and uses triple buffering. 30fps for a racing game is fine (Wipeout, 2097, Ridge Racer, etc on PS1), but 60 is clearly better. Triple buffering implies increased controller lag (over what's currently there), which is not going to be responsive enough for a racing game running at 60fps.
    Edited by 3 at 16/12/09 @ 16:24

  • ronuds #32 2 years ago

    Can someone explain what exactly a "sprite" is when used in video game terms?

  • GoldLightan #33 2 years ago

    A sprite is essentially a matrix of pixels, typical of avatars in old 2D gaming. In this context, the people in the crowd just look like flat old 2D sprites

  • seasidebaz #34 2 years ago

    Nope, nobody in the world can explain what a Sprite is with regard to computer graphics...

    :D

  • cianchristopher #35 2 years ago

    It's the most refreshing, lemon-and-lime graphic of all...

  • Skurmedel #36 2 years ago

    Maybe I'm high or on drugs, but I must say Shift looks better on my PS3 really. Probably gonna get a ton of negs for this.

    ronuds: A sprite is a single flat 2D image rendered into the world, like Mario in a 2D Super Mario Game. Sprites are quite common in early 3D games as well, for example the trees in Duke Nuke'em. Wherever you observe them from they will always face you head on. And some newer games use them for particles.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 16:33

  • Nebula #37 2 years ago

    "Can someone explain what exactly a "sprite" is when used in video game terms?"

    It is a 2D image. Sprite spectators are 2D iamges usually animated to move in a 2D plane. This is a perfomance solution to having 3D spectators with more complex animation system. Though 2D spectators wont be a deal breaker as one doesnt pay attention to them anyway during races.

    IMHO all racing games should have a on/off switch for spectators as it kinda feels strange to have tons of spectators looking at you while you do hotlaps!

  • LordVonPS3 #38 2 years ago

    @ Dizzy.
    Strictly speaking, the spectators are textured polygons, not sprites. If you look at the back of the poly it'll either be the same bitmap (see through), a different bitmap, an opaque bitmap / coloured poly, or nothing at all... Think I've covered all the options! ;-)

    Sprites are not 3D at all, they're essentially just 2D bitmaps. SEGA might have been the company to introduce the concept of "sprite scaling" back in the 80's with games such as OutRun and Afterburner. That didn't make those objects "as 3D" as the spectators in GT - in spite of how 2D they look... ;-)
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 16:40

  • ronuds #39 2 years ago

    Thanks for all of the responses! :D

  • jag10 #40 2 years ago

    here's a list of file sizes for other PSN demo downloads:

    Colin McCrae rally 916 MB
    Need for Speed 854 MB
    K2 1207 MB
    God Of War 3 2671 MB
    this GT Time trial 200 MB, yeah it's a proper demo for GT5 ...................not!

    it's a representation of the physics, you know how it's a competition for GT Academy to see who can get the fastest times. well the only way to do that is to drive properly by braking properly, taking the correct line etc etc.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 17:11

  • lockload #41 2 years ago

    It is mostly irrelevant to compare to other games as there is only one car and one ghost on the track lets see the performance with more cars , damage in operation and custom paint jobs.

  • LordVonPS3 #42 2 years ago

    @ 20charactersmax. Spectator variation is irrelevant to a compressed GT Academy time trial demo.

    I'll say it again, because many of you are doing it already... Don't judge this as representative of the finished GT5 game!

  • Darren #43 2 years ago

    At this point in the current generation we really shouldn't have to put up with tearing at all in a racing game, particularly a prestigious one such as Gran Turismo 5. 5% torn frames on a basic track with no other cars is disappointing so it sounds like the game engine hasn't been improved at all in that respect since GT5 Prologue bar the inclusion of damage modelling. Personally I'm a little disappointed. What's the point in aiming for 1080p if the hardware cannot handle it smoothly?

    This is one area that Turn 10 got spot on with Forza Motorsport 3, which might not look as photorealistic as GT5, but at least manages to run silky-smooth at 60 fps @ 720p at all times. That is far more important IMO than 1080p.

  • LordVonPS3 #44 2 years ago

    @ Darren. That's not true. Forza 3 has been known to exhibit tearing as well, ergo, not 100% 60fps either. Also, Forza 3 outputs at 1080p (not native res). It's pretty clear from reading all the comments on this article that most of you lot not only know nothing about game development, but you also don't even know what you're looking at.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 17:03

  • ronuds #45 2 years ago

    @ LordVonPS3

    You might want to take up your issues with Sony and other gaming publications. That's where we've all heard this was a GT5 demo. Why would they release something and tell everyone it's representative of GT5 when it's not? That would be a pretty dumb business decision, don't you think?

    But thank God people like you are here to speak for Sony and put us on the right track. :rolleyes:

  • LordVonPS3 #46 2 years ago

    @ ronuds. Yes, thank God I am here...!

  • ronuds #47 2 years ago

    You also might want to read some DF articles on Forza 3 and GT5. They pretty much confirm everything Darren's saying.

    So, do we believe someone named LordVonPS3 regarding a 360 game and its technical merits, or people who do that sort of that for a living? Tough choice, for sure.

  • Goodfella #48 2 years ago

    LordVonPS3 anyday.

  • LordVonPS3 #49 2 years ago

    @ ronuds. I suggest you read those DF articles on Forza 3 yourself, because you'll find they only confirm what I've said.

  • ronuds #50 2 years ago

    Oh yeah, I forgot EG and DF are biased.

  • ronuds #51 2 years ago

    @ LordVonPS3

    You mean these remarks:
    "Turn 10 must surely be congratulated for what it has achieved here. Forza 3 is arguably the best-looking racing game on the Xbox 360, looking far superior to the majority of racing titles for the platform than run at half the frame-rate. The team's focus on visual consistency is also laudable: unlike other driving games including even the technologically awesome Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, Forza Motorsport 3 maintains its frame-rate and also employs v-sync. It also does this while maintaining a full, native 720p resolution and also 2x multi-sampling anti-aliasing."

    Forza 3 maintains its frame-rate unlike GT5P. You said that?

    Why am I arguing with you, though? My IQ is dipping with each reply!
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 17:27

  • Dizzy #52 2 years ago

    @lordvonps3 Thanx for explaining what a sprite is to a games developer, I feel better now ;)

    Bit shocked by those spectators tbh, I was hoping for something better especially after PGR. At least the trees are not sprites any more. I know you might not notice it when driving, but it still is a pity when a dev doesn't spend some time on details like that.
    Edited by 2 at 16/12/09 @ 17:33

  • GreyBeard #53 2 years ago

    GT5 Prologue was a taster of GT5 too, so its got to be absolutely representative of the final product too... 2 years ago. D'oh!

    A racing game engine is more than just a rasterizer, the physics system is just as important. For all we know this is just a version of prologue with the new physics engine in-place.

    After all, is it demonstrating all the confirmed new features (like damage modelling) added in the intervening time?
    No. It is not.

    So why are people expecting a finalized, optimized, renderer for a 200mb competition promotional?

    But whatever. Haters are going to hate. When people like Goldlightan moan about GT's lighting model (which remains inarguably the best in the industry) you know you aren't dealing with rational complainants.

  • dsmx #54 2 years ago

    Most driving games can get away with torn frames as most of the time they don't impact on the game, they say there were torn frames in the demo vid but I couldn't really see them. Consistent frame rate is much more important than the odd torn frame.

  • GoldLightan #55 2 years ago

    DF saying Forza 3 employs v-sync is seemingly at odds with certain posters above claiming that it tears.

    Personally I've seen framedrop when a stupid popup message comes on, but never tearing, so I believe the v-sync comment, and think that some people above are just outright lying their asses off. lol.

  • Petulant_Radish #56 2 years ago

    what size download was GT5P?

  • GoldLightan #57 2 years ago

    1.9GB for five tracks and 37 cars.

    But compression cannot explain away the jagged shadows, bad lighting (unless it is pre-baked??? lol?) and slowdown/tearing. Data compression would only really be effective on audio and textures.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 17:42

  • LordVonPS3 #58 2 years ago

    @ ronuds. That's selective copy / pasting from you. Here's some selective copy / pasting from me.

    "In this entire sequence, Forza 3 drops a grand total of just two frames."... That's at 720p ronuds, not at 1080p.

    "Despite these technical wins for Turn 10, GT5P emerges as the classier-looking game, the standard bearer in terms of graphical accomplishment - not just up against Forza, but compared to every console driving game. Arguments about whether the 360 can or will ever match what the PS3 is achieving here will rage on forever, but, as we stressed before, clearly there are a different set of developmental priorities and resources applicable to each developer."

    ;-)

  • GoldLightan #59 2 years ago

    Who is talking about 1080p? Neither game does it.

  • GoldLightan #60 2 years ago

    @Colossus80: this demo has a two car grid and still has torn frames. Talk of GT5 is just speculation at this point.

  • des #61 2 years ago

    So after 6 years we have gone to one track and one car...and that track is not particularly good looking,to put it nicely.

  • inni786 #62 2 years ago

    i remember the days when racing games were all about gameplay and all out fun NOT about nice graphics, framerates and polys

    I'm off to the arcades to play the original Outrun and Chase HQ - quality games!!!

    Bugger, dont seem to be many arcade places around these days :(
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 18:04

  • SAH1977 #63 2 years ago

    I'm not quite sure of the point of featuring a GT5 'demo' when the final game will feature 16 car grids, day/night transitions, weather, dynamic lighting and a new damage model.
    Edited by 1 at 18/12/09 @ 11:58

  • LordVonPS3 #64 2 years ago

    @ GoldLightan.

    Look at the title for this article... "GT5 Time Trial 720p/1080p analysis". GT5P and indeed this demo output at both 720p / 1080p. Forza 3 does too.

    Neither game has a 1920x1080 back buffer (i.e. native 1080p resolution), but GT5P and this demo manage a better resolution than Forza 3. As semitope stated, both games drop frames.

    DF has gone on record as saying GT5P looks better than Forza 3 and the finished GT5 will look better than GT5P.

    Again, this demo does not represent GT5 gameplay. No damage. No day / night. No weather. No car modifications / simulation. Reduced textures and compressed sound. It's a time trial demo for PSN. It is not a Blu-ray release. Even the TGS '09 demo had more features, more functionality and better textures than this time trial, but some of you just don't want to believe it! Incredible!

  • ronuds #65 2 years ago

    @ VonPS3

    Dude...you've only reiterated what I said. Dropping a total of 2 frames over how much time does not = "does not keep a consistent frame rate." You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, so you're taking an extremely insignificant remark and acting like it's a big deal. I'm sure the SDF will fully back you, though.

    I want to tell you to stop making yourself look like a jackass, but I feel I'm doing the same by helping fuel this idiotic conversation. And for that I apologize to everyone. I feel dumb and I will stop now.

  • LordVonPS3 #66 2 years ago

    @ Digital Foundry... As for your twitter - which I've been watching - and to quote you "GT5P, 6 tracks, 80+ cars, 1.5GB. I don't think so. More than that, what possible reason would they have to cut it down anyway? about 5 hours ago"

    You don't think so...? Postulate this... What possible reason would PD have to purposely cut out the damage model that was already included in the TGS '09 demo? What possible reason would PD have to purposely switch tracks from Tokyo 246 to the Indy Road Course?

    I'll tell you... The GT Academy time trial is set to run at Indianapolis, because the U.S. based winner will get tickets to watch the Indy 500. The damage model has been removed because it is a work in progress.

    The whole purpose of the time trial demo is to promote (a) GT5 and (b) the GT franchise as being "realistic" through the GT Academy scheme. It is about marketing the franchise.

    It simply isn't necessary - nor desirable - to include GT5's features in the demo. The aim is to get as many people downloading the GT Academy time trial and playing it, hence all the cut backs, hence the small(!) download.

  • LordVonPS3 #67 2 years ago

    @ ronuds. Yes 2 frames... At 720p. ;-)

    I think it's great how you're comparing the finished Forza 3 against this GT time trial "demo". Classy.
    Edited by 2 at 16/12/09 @ 18:24

  • GamesConnoisseur #68 2 years ago

    Looking foward to the demo n GT5, got all the previous of GT (and Forza), seem perhaps there are still people who believed against anything other than lovely Uncharted that PS3 IS 10 times more powerful and much far capable of doing 1080p?!

    PD is still doing tricks and at costs of other stuff to achieve the game as we see so far, no doubt finished version ll be great as they invested a darned lot. True 1080p 60 fps gaming as standard is only really possible next gen and good PC today may still not always able to do that with certain games!

    I played F3 recently and impressed with the smoothness and believe this to be more crucial for GT5 to do better and no tearings please!!

    How long until the demo out?!

  • Skurmedel #69 2 years ago

    Still, this game has been in the making for how long? What is representative of the final game then? Is there even a final game within a foreseeable future? Two small stripped down demos have been released so far and that's all we've seen, what's the point of them then? A demo that doesn't present the game in the best possible way is totally meaningless from any perspective, it doesn't make any business sense at all.

    Still maybe it's überawesome to play, that cannot be judged by a couple of screen shots, but that is not what this thread is about either. It's about how it looks and performs, currently.

  • El-Dev #70 2 years ago

    This thread reminds me of the time just before KZ2 came out and there was a lot of comments quite similar to this. Why are so many 360 only owners interested in PS3 exclusives? If you want to play it buy a PS3 and please stop moaning about how shit you want it to be.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 18:54

  • GoldLightan #71 2 years ago

    It doesn't sound like this demo manages either 720p or 1080p tbh. 52fps and 5% torn frames in one, 12% in the other. Not really fair to lump Forza 3 in with such significant drops.

    I've seen the tearing in GT5p myself, it happens every time on the first corner of Suzuka. Not good.

  • Skurmedel #72 2 years ago

    Yes, the old "360 owners" blame when there is dissent amongst their own. Let's discredit them as secret trolls! I have a 360, a PS3 and I thought looked Forza 3 looked meh as well.

  • EvilBob_leeds #73 2 years ago

    No no Des, the PS3 had something that looked better than forza 3 some 2 years ago;

    From digital foundry - "Despite these technical wins for Turn 10, GT5P emerges as the classier-looking game, the standard bearer in terms of graphical accomplishment - not just up against Forza, but compared to every console driving game."

    And as for all the other funboys wiffling on in the futile hope that this demo constitutes some kind of finished product and that GT5 being graphically inferior to F3 will give them some kind of deep inner peace, consider a) the above quote and more importantly the images attached to the article b) this. Look at how crappy this grass verge to sand texture looks on this demo. The weird thing is that a texture used in a very similar context was present on GT5P. Maybe Polyphony spent the last two years going over all their textures with a smudge tool, or a new Photoshop plugin called "crappify". Or maybe, *just maybe* , this is a super cut down version of GT based on an old engine build that they've tried to make as small a download as possible. Nah, you're right, I'm deluding myself, I was right with the smudge tool idea.

    And while I'm here, GoldLightian, Richard Leadbetter stated it was 1080p.

    "Switch to 1080p, and you get a 50 per cent resolution boost up to 1280x1080 (expanded outwards to full HD using bilinear scaling) but AA drops to 2x MSAA. That's a pretty good trade-off, to put it lightly, and that additional 50 per cent resolution via the 1080p support does make a difference."

    Good that eh?

    If you like Forza as much as you evidently do, great. Why not go play it now? Or do something else anyway. If you are honestly of the opinion that GT5 won't be graphically be better than Forza, despite it being so 2 years ago you really are deluding yourselves. What remains to be seen is whether GT can get it's a) AI and b) Physics up to or beyond Forza standards. Especially the bloody AI.

    To reiterate, since some of you seem to have difficulty taking it in, the battle for graphics between GT5 and Forza has already been had. Forza lost. Which doesn't mean it's not a great game.
    Edited by 3 at 16/12/09 @ 18:51

  • ronuds #74 2 years ago

    @ El-Dev

    You might find through research that is a very 2-way street. 2 wrongs don't make a right, though!

  • SAH1977 #75 2 years ago

    'Still, this game has been in the making for how long? What is representative of the final game then? Is there even a final game within a foreseeable future?'

    GT5 will be out in Japan in little over three months.

    It will feature day/night transitions, weather, head tracking, comprehensive online play, 1000+ cars and a damage model.

    The damage model is said to simulate mechanical and visual damage, at it's most realistic level your suspension geometry could be put out of line and ruin the handling of your car, you could even end your race after one crash.

    PD are also working on some form of dynamic headlights, but this could have too big an impact on framerate to be included in the final build. There are even rumours of a track editor which have not officially been denied.

    If people can't wait a few months for the final GT5 release, and wish to review it based on a demo, so be it.

  • Skurmedel #76 2 years ago

    Sigh. Yes take it from the head of Polyphony Digital to tell us how great his game his. Seriously? It could very well be extremely great to drive. That's not the point, my opinion is that THIS DEMO doesn't look that good, meaning my brain does not find the images that appear in a sequential fashion in front of my eyes all that pleasing. There are more than enough material for somebody to form a justified opinion in this very article.

    This demo, which is a demo, of a game that is apparently coming out soon. Maybe it's stripped down or not, but it's this demo that is at discussion, not the final product.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 19:06

  • ronuds #77 2 years ago

    Watching the SDF scrambling to make this demo right is hilarity at its best.

    Now we're "taking it from THIS guy" -- the head of PD -- about claims that the game races perfectly? Like he'd say any less!

    Bill Gates says XBOX rules. Take it from HIM! LOLOLOLOL

    Anyway, I've said it a thousand times - the game looks fine. I don't know why people have their panties in such a bunch over this demo. Anyone who actually believed the game would look like the bullshots we've seen from PD (Turn 10 are just as guilty) were really kidding themselves and continue to do so.

  • Murton #78 2 years ago

    A drop from 60 fps to the lowest recorded 52 fps is negligible considering that most people can't see much beyond 30-40 fps. And on the subject of tearing, remember that DF use a computer to detect and count torn frames, in case measuring "around 5%", so around 3 frames in every 60 is torn. Even if it's three frames in a row that are torn you're not likely to notice it at all, blink and you'll miss it I believe the saying goes.

    I think it's a pretty safe assumption that GT5 is going to not only a great racing sim with an unprecedented amount of content but it's also going to be one of the best looking games of this generation by a long way and be solid as a rock where build quality is concerned. Essentially, it's everything that a AAA title should be.

  • ronuds #79 2 years ago

    @ Colossus

    Nobody says the game can't be perfect. But taking it from the head of the company making the game seems a bit foolish to me. What the hell is he supposed to say - it sucks? Seriously.

    What the hell does that have to do with MS? It's common sense.

  • kaerber #80 2 years ago

    I can play both consoles. I think I'll buy Forza.

  • Skurmedel #81 2 years ago

    I'm not insisting it's anything, you are living in some dream world where I say things I don't, I'm saying that you can't trust what a guy says about a product produced by the company he is in charge of. If we flip it over, would you trust Bil Gates if he said Windows was great? The fact that Bill is a former software engineer changes nothing.

    I still haven't claimed anywhere the game is bad.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 19:19

  • GoldLightan #82 2 years ago

    most people can't see much beyond 30-40 fps

    Even though this isn't true (most people are comfortable at that range, they can in fact appreciate much higher framerates) it also isn't the point being discussed.

    Most people can detect a variable framerate, no matter what it is.

  • ronuds #83 2 years ago

    Update: Head of Sony says Sony Vaio's are great PCs.

    /buys

  • ronuds #84 2 years ago

    If you can find anywhere that I've said I dislike GT5, I'll pay you.

    In fact, I've only said the opposite. I keep saying the game looks fine. I just disagree that this demo isn't representative of GT5. I think that's a load of bollocks.

    But, please, indulge me with any comments I've made stating that "I don't like" GT5.

    Also, what's wrong with egging you guys on? It only results in some of the most ridiculous and yet hilarious comments I've ever seen.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 19:35

  • kaerber #85 2 years ago

    @Colossus80 You pop in that every tread to watch him =)

  • sfp_noodle #86 2 years ago

    its amazing how many 360 fanboys are trolling this thread. the amount of negs is astonishing! on the subject of the 2D sprites, load up GTHD concept (the original demo from 2007) or even GT5P. the crowds are full on 3D and animmated. why on earth wud the final game look worse nearly 3 years on?? as many ppl have mentioned, this a is a very small 200mb download and the visuals are intentionally compromised. GTHD concept was an 800mb download nearly 3 years ago. the physics are representative of the final game, NOT the visual quality! go on then, minus me all u 360 fanboys

  • ronuds #87 2 years ago

    No, no...you mistake my disliking for the SDF with a disliking for GT5. I like games like Forza and GT5. I don't like every thread ending up about which looks better, though - because it's retarded and who gives a shit.

    I do like to dangle the carrot a bit too much, though. It's so easy with this game because anything you say that isn't ejaculating over yourself is an instant negative. I like to cause trouble, basically...but there's nothing wrong with GT5. How could I say I like Forza 3 and then turn around and say GT5 sucks? They're basically the same game with different names.

  • myke6699 #88 2 years ago

    "Racing against your own best lap-time via the provided ghost driver is great fun and having Kazunori Yamauchi's personal best on-screen at every given moment offers plenty of encouragement to refine your skills."


    Actually it's a TT competition opened to EU country (and NZ and AU) to qualify for GT Academy.

    "Qualify in the top twenty within your country and you will be invited to a national final event, where you will pit your wits against the best Gran Turismo drivers in the country. If you make it from there only then will you join the elite 20 that will be taken into the GT Academy 2010."

    For NA:

    "And of course the Gran Turismo 5 Time Trial Challenge is your entry method for a chance to win round trip airfare and hotel accommodations for two (winner and guest) to attend the Indianapolis 500 Mile Race, a.k.a. the Indy 500, in May. Each winner also gets a VIP package that includes two all-access passes for Carb Day (final Indy 500 practice, pit stop competition, special concert festivities, special event car rides in the 2010 Indy 500 event vehicle), all-access passes to the garage, pit area, and Victory Lane for pre and post-race celebrations for the race, and two VIP suite tickets to enjoy the race. The fastest players from both the US and Canada will represent their fellow GT fans at this exciting historic race. That’s a pretty sweet way to spend a weekend."

  • davisorle #89 2 years ago

    @LordVonPS3
    You are a high class dumbass. Who the fuck are you to tell and judge anyone here about their knowledge on developing and coding when you are a first class morron that has been telling that this isnt repressenting the visual qquality of GT5 which either you are like i said too stupid to realise it or you think that Sony and Polyphony Digital are that dumb and incapable of promotion in game that they release as a demo somethign that isnt even finished code. Are you THAT damn stupi that yo have actualy posted the same retarded opinion about 15 times so far in the same comment section? Are you aware of wtf you are talking about? Not only you are the one that has no clue about programming in any level but your fanatism about GT5 or just your console has turned you into a complete jackass trying to talk shit to ppl like Ronuds who are saying their opinion. Which is more valid since its based on fucking facts. Thing simple for you to understand.

    1) The visual quality wont improve. THIS is the damn game's demo. NOT beta . FINISHED engine.
    2) The tearing and edgy FPS at times with just a ghost car of the kind, sprites and empty track can only mean that the game when with more cars will only have chances to be negativly affected and no good news to it.
    3) This is a DEMO like its called itself, yeah its a a freaking taste of the actual game. dont need a sientist to explain us what a demo is neither you heled anyone understand any better. This is the time trial of the game.The time trial of the acual game will be no different. This is it. Its one track, one car ghost car. No shit. This IS the game. This IS GT5. Deal with it or we will be expecting you after the release of GT5 to comment all over and see your story later on.

    Nuf said to you. Cheers.

    @ronuds
    Stop responding to tards like that. Iritates me and you made me open my mouth. He is clearly blinded due to fanboism and nothing else. Its like talking to a freaking brick, seriously.

    LOL @ all the "sprite" explanations.. XD How thoughtful :)

  • Dizzy #90 2 years ago

    What I don't understand is why would they release such a weak looking "demo" (they wanne promote their game no?) and if it contains so few assets and weak textures/geometry, why doesn't it run butter smooth? Releasing this on a supposedly old graphics engine surely is more work than using their latest engine????

    >most people can't see much beyond 30-40 fps

    BTW the human eye can see differences in "framerate" even up to 250 fps.
    Edited by 1 at 16/12/09 @ 20:10

  • davisorle #91 2 years ago

    @Dizzy
    They arent stupid o not release the final game engine.. Do you have them for that amateurs and specially for when it comes to such a strong name for the PS3 its just not the case. The thing is that right now they are going to release it for Xmass which is good promotion and taste for the fans. Nothgin wrong with it. The downside is only for the ones too hyoped on websites ( i.e. here lol ) and the ones that kept yelling about how superior to competitior's offerings it would be and why it doesnt look so much appealing right now. Hype is a bad thing if it doesnt deliver by 101% as the built up hype. Underdelivering to hype has huge impact. The game will be good one way or the other. I personally dont care if it will be any better or not from Forza 3 like the subject was expected to turn into. but like i said, competition and hype is the top layer of impression on such games.

  • Dizzy #92 2 years ago

    "They arent stupid o not release the final game engine.. Do you have them for that amateurs "

    Err... when I release demos of games I always try to use our latest bug-free engine.

  • jag10 #93 2 years ago

    all this over a 200mb download LMAO! well played PD!

  • davisorle #94 2 years ago

    @Dizzy
    Exactly.. Im not saying anything different. Im not english neither its my first language but I dont think this time im not making it vlear of what im trying to say :/ So doesn't that mean that this is the latest version? Why on earth wouldnt it be the latest one? Then again the truth is, like i also said, that I would also expect it to be better. I mean FPS wise its fine according to the article other than the tearing and yeah its a bad sign in empty track feeling unstable but I can only speculate that in actual race full of opponents it will run slower. I really cant be sure of anything though till I see it I guess. Arent we talking about ther same thing? Might be my mistake here. If so , sorry I guess o.O

  • davisorle #95 2 years ago

    @jag10
    For the love of God , one person said about the 200MB size of the DL and you all started throwing it around without even knowing why. The demo includes only data of one car and a track. How big did you expect it to be? Also the sounds included, compressed or not , not only it doesnt really matter at this point but they are as well of only a single car's. There is nothing wrong with the demo nor it's size. Actually I find it a good thing cause they arent forcing ppl to download a huge pile of data that wouldnt be used in the demo. Whats the problem with it?

  • shotgun44 #96 2 years ago

    @
    "I'm not quite sure of the point of featuring a GT5 'demo' when the final game will feature sixteen car grids, day/night transitions, weather, dynamic lighting and a new damage model."

    Yea, what's the point in a one level UC2 multiplayer demo, the full game has a single player game, 8 MP maps and a different looking menu...

  • Skurmedel #97 2 years ago

    Colossus80: Obviously you've dealt with it for so long that you can't tell the difference anymore. There is no careful "wording" putting it down, I said the images looked bad and they do in my eyes. It's my opinion and it's not subtle. If you would actually care to read what I said instead of just labeling me as something I'm not maybe this discussion could be a bit more enlightened.

    Anyway I'm tired of this, it's like debating with a fanatic. In the end you always end up being stealth this, stealth that, hidden agenda blabla just because the other person won't take any time discussing the actual matters. There is no need to discuss anything if you can insta-label that person.

    I do acknowledge this fact that this may be a "stripped down" demo, it still doesn't change anything. Hopefully this game will turn out good so we can have another good game for the PS3. But I guess that will be a whole another shitstorm and a lot of "I told you so's" from the fans.
    Edited by 2 at 16/12/09 @ 21:37

  • El-Dev #98 2 years ago

    Who will be downloading this tomorrow then?

  • Skurmedel #99 2 years ago

    You can't download demos on a memory stick can you and transfer them? Like you can with the firmware?

    (wow -2 for this, it must be really evil to wonder these kinds of things. What happens if I open the manual, does it explode? Mind you I've only had my PS3 for a couple of months.)
    Edited by 3 at 17/12/09 @ 01:02

  • Skurmedel #100 2 years ago

    Okay... then I can't patch my games either I guess. Mobile broadband is awesome... :(

  • Welsh_Red_Devil #101 2 years ago

    cant w8 for the demo, even if its ment 4 tht GT academy. ive got the prologue n loved it, but i expected the demo wud av been from da final game not a exact look-a-like of the prologue.

  • Welsh_Red_Devil #102 2 years ago

    disapointed tht it looks da same as the prologue unless its a demo of the prologue!
    looking forward 2 playing it even though it is ment 4 da GT academy

  • SAH1977 #103 2 years ago

    Has the definition of photo realism changed in the last 24 hours?

    Quite why people, who's only flirtation with GT5 are articles on EG every other month, are so insistent 'this is it, don't get excited', is quite bemusing.

    GT5 enthusiasts are reading up on this title every day, they know what is planned, as opposed to what has been shown publicly, and have higher expectations than anyone else.

    Am I being too cynical if I suggest this is another case of people getting in criticism of a PS3 exclusive before it is released, as happened with LBP, Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2, and is now being applied to GT5, Heavy Rain and God Of War 3, rather than people being genuinely interested in this title.
    Edited by 2 at 17/12/09 @ 00:05

  • SAH1977 #104 2 years ago

    'Yea, what's the point in a one level UC2 multiplayer demo, the full game has a single player game, 8 MP maps and a different looking menu... '


    This GT5 'demo' is equivalent to releasing an Uncharted 2 demo with no weapons, no enemies, no destructable environments, and running on the Uncharted engine.

    Apart from that it's exactly the same.............

  • TTP #105 2 years ago

    I was expecting some analysis of the new "Sharpen" an "Reduce Flickering" filters accessible in the Display > IQ options screen (IIRC). Come on DF.

  • Law07 #106 2 years ago

    Why are people arguing over a 200mb download file? Indianapolis is a large track so I assume some things had to be cut down to make it as largely accessible as possible cos it is primarily used for competition purposes, not for gaming graphics whores etc.

    Everyone just calm the halm and wait until the final game then judge?

  • milky_09 #107 2 years ago

    i find this really funny. forza fans cast ur mind back to october n the forza demo was released. that demo was 1.2 -.5 gb. gt5 time trial demo has a few less cars. same number of tracks and the demo is over a gb smaller. you can understand that things would be compromised due to size of download compression /reducing texture size/ features etc! i think we all know when gt hits it wont let us down . gtpsp looked flippin awesome for a portable. gt prologue looked great too.

  • JamieR #108 2 years ago

    This Demo Looks boring, but it is a demo after all i expect the full game will be a lot better. I think the game looks graphically good if you ignore the lack of cars and the crowd the game looks to have good AA. I have tried the forza 3 demo and that gives you a lot more to see i wonder if gt will give a demo with a race in it before the game is out. a lot of gt is been hidden from us still that could be awesome. and stop calling each other fanboys so stupid if your offended when someone say bad of a game that isn't even out yet then you of all people shouldn't calling someone a fanboy.

  • dsmx #109 2 years ago

    It isn't supposed to be a demo of GT5 how many times must this be said. This is a single track with 2 cars that is for the GT challenge thing they're doing. This demo is not supposed to give you an idea of what to expect from GT5 it is only for the challenge.

  • foamy #110 2 years ago

    when the fuck is this up?

  • Skurmedel #111 2 years ago

    SAH1977: You can express your non-positive opinion about it without being a warmongering 360-fanboy.

  • JamieR #112 2 years ago

    To the people saying this isn't a demo. read the advert for it on the Eurogamer page "the free Gran Turismo entry demo" advert.

  • nasanu #113 2 years ago

    I see DF are still going on about this being a demo of GT5. Let me ask you this. Will the GT Academy TT be in GT5? No it wont. I dont care what is says below "Gran Turismo 5 Time Trail Challenge", it is NOT a demo. Demos feature sections from the actual game, this does not.

  • lagoonalight #114 2 years ago

    Some of you guys are just pathetic. For the love of anything good just wait until the entire ******* game is out before you lapse into some retarded state of fanboy. Please. If you guys could only read half these messages far and away from caring about anything on this subject you would see just how pathetic all of this really is. Forza 3 is a great game with some crap graphics for the most part IMO. Also, I don't think anything on these limited systems is going to BLOW your mind at 60fps. Not possible. GT5 is not done and I have seen nothing to actually grade it on. If it would remain one course and one car and still be tearing then the game would be trash. Why don't we all wait and see.

  • Darren #115 2 years ago

    @LordVonPS3 - "@ Darren. That's not true. Forza 3 has been known to exhibit tearing as well, ergo, not 100% 60fps either."

    The tearing, as explained by Digital Foundry, is limited to camera angle changes during the replay (or game itself I believe) but I've never seen it once myself, while playing or in the replay so if it does occur it is not a problem. As for the framerate drops, again I've never noticed them. Turn 10 obviously prioritised performance over visuals for Forza Motorsport 3 (though the graphics are fine) and that's exactly right in my book as that is an important part of a simulation along with handling and physics.

  • oupe #116 2 years ago

    Forza 3 is a great game with some crap graphics for the most part IMO.

    I'll take forza over this ugly mess anytime. No troll intended but it just looks very, very meh.

    EDIT: Just played it. I'll stick with Forza. Gives a better thrill and looks about the same.
    Edited by 1 at 19/12/09 @ 15:36

  • Jay-ITFC #117 2 years ago

    I own both consoles. I'd happily buy/play GT4 if they'd just release the damn thing! Including downloads and prologue this is the 3rd or 4th demo of GT5? That's ridiculous! I've been playing Forza 3 since October. Sadly I don't think the months of extra work will produce a VASTLY superior game (when they really should).

  • Petulant_Radish #118 2 years ago

    Shouldn’t a racing game be about racing? All you wannabe techies are arguing about things that most punters will not notice nor care about. Your average person who will buy GT5 or Forza will not know the difference between 720 or 1080p, or really think twice about screen tearing or jaggies. What is really matters about is how they feel to drive, both of which do incredibly good jobs.

  • El-Dev #119 2 years ago

    "ugly mess", if there was a Eurogamer stupid comment of the day award I reckon Oef! would be a cert for it. You can say a lot about the 5% of torn frames, clearly there's over 100 posts about them, but the game is far from ugly.

    Forza 3 doesn't have rubbish graphics, it's also a good looking game that has a couple of minor defects that don't take away from the overall experience. If most of you had played it instead of talking about it you would all know that.

  • hiscore #120 2 years ago

    5 to 12 per cent torn frames in 720p, respectively 1080p is unworthy of Polyphony Digital. A gfx engine which hasn't improved since GT5P? Why not go for less effects and maintain vsync + 60fps? This is a mystery to me. GT5 should radiate craftsmenship. With this demo, it seems Polyphony is telling us it can't solve this problem. Once the masters of gfx, now one of the many in the row of developers which can't handle vsync and/or 60 fps. It's a shame.

  • inni786 #121 2 years ago

    all this talk about torn frames...do you guys actually see this when playing the game or are you intentionally looking for them ingame as I've played the time trail and havent noticed it tbh
    Dont understand how you guys see them as I thought you would be to busy playing the game and trying to keep the car on track rather then anally looking for torn frames while driving
    just enjoy the game and dont think about these so called torn frames and just drive - that car is a beast to handle at times!!

  • altitude2k #122 2 years ago

    To those who say this isn't a demo: having played let me reiterate the text directly from the menu, "This is the demo version of the upcoming Gran Turismo 5, due for release in 2010."

  • SAH1977 #123 2 years ago

    It is quite obviously a version of GT5, just as GT5P was, but it is a mere taster of a new physics engine.

    Personally I would have been more excited to see a video of Le Mans with day/night transitions, a WRC stage in the rain or a NASCAR multi-car pile-up with cars rolling and being crushed.

  • Bazfrag #124 2 years ago

    "all this talk about torn frames...do you guys actually see this when playing the game or are you intentionally looking for them ingame as I've played the time trail and havent noticed it tbh"

    I doubt anyone would notice at all. Thanks DF for providing fuckwits with their regular chance to sound off about things the human eye cant even pick out.

    Good demo btw.

  • El-Dev #125 2 years ago

    I'm in work, is it up on the UK PSN yet?

  • metalmike25 #126 2 years ago

    Anyone using the phrases 'The SDF' or 'Xbots' needs to be brutally beaten as often as possible

    Game looks good by the way
    Edited by 1 at 17/12/09 @ 14:23

  • jag10 #127 2 years ago

    @altitude2k

    it's a demo of the physics of the game, perfect for the GT Academy competition to see who can get the fastest times. why can people not grasp this! a 200mb download isn't going to have the updated visuals and stuff is it.

  • tnt_2008smum #128 2 years ago

    a 200mb download isn't going to have the updated visuals and stuff is it.

    i hope you're right because lets be honest this doesn't look that great!

  • Jay-ITFC #129 2 years ago

    "I own both consoles. I'd happily buy/play GT4 if they'd just release the damn thing! Including downloads and prologue this is the 3rd or 4th demo of GT5? That's ridiculous! I've been playing Forza 3 since October. Sadly I don't think the months of extra work will produce a VASTLY superior game (when they really should)."

    Okay scrap that. After downloading the demo I wouldn't happily buy/play this game. It's dull and lifeless beyone belief.

  • Josh128 #130 2 years ago

    LOL at anyone engaging in this fanboy war claiming to be a developer!! Are you completely retarded? BTW theres no excuse for a system with a 3.2Ghz multicore CPU and a 550Mhz GPU to not be able to run a racing game at a rock solid 60fps. Sega was doing it on their Model 2 arcade boards (Daytona, etc.) some 14 years ago. Hell, Sony did it on PS1 in "high res" with the demo remake of RR1. Thats right, a 33Mhz PS1!

  • Josh128 #131 2 years ago

    semitope- In case you missed it, 3d texture mapped polygon racing games are being discussed here. The two examples I gave are of 14+ year old 3d texture mapped polygon racing games, not sure why you are bringing up 2d games other than for the sake of trolling? Were my examples not clear enough? You ignorantly bringing up 2d games is useless and irrelevant.

    There is no reason that the devs cant crank out a racing game with a solid 60fps rate. PS1, Model 2, N64, Model 3, Dreamcast, PS2, GC, and Xbox all had at least one or more. All they need to do to accomplish that is trade geometry/lights/textures/resolution for framerate. There is no reason that could not be done. Are you denying that?
    Edited by 2 at 17/12/09 @ 16:24

  • funkateer #132 2 years ago

    I just dug up my Logitech DF GT wheel, downloaded the demo and took it for a quick spin.

    1) Stop claiming this is not a GT5 demo. It's clearly saying itself that it's the demo for the upcoming GT5 in big bold characters. If that's not true than either Sony is backpedaling, or this is just really bad PR, which is not good either way.

    2) The new physics engine seems somewhat more realistic indeed, although grass fields seems to be made of ice sometimes.

    3) The framerate is just... horrible! It seems mostly solid vsync'ed 60fps, true, but every 10 seconds or so it judders REALLY BAD, like it's losing at least 4 frames at once or something. GT5:p doesn't do that, so I still have a slight bit of hope left that this isn't a sign of things to come. But if GT5 will do that, it's a sure game breaker.

  • El-Dev #133 2 years ago

    Downloaded it, looks superb. The cockpit shadows are a bit rough round the edges. Handling is tricky to get the hang of but brilliant when you do. Overall very impressed. Need to work on laptimes though, everytime I nail one corner I mess up the next one. Went to press select a few times only to find it changes the view and isn't a time travelling button.

  • Retroid #134 2 years ago

    Fanboys are amusing.

    No, wait, they're bastard annoying.

  • man.the.king #135 2 years ago

    @farticusmaximus

    "...and there is no sensation of speed whatsoever..."

    Actually, in that case I would say they are being very accurate, the way a sim should be. Tell me, whenever we drive our cars on roads that are not narrow or traffic-filled streets, do we feel as if we are going very fast? For example, when driving through highways of Michigan (I-94) or Indiana (hwy 80), I usually go as fast as 90-100 mph (yes, I drive faster than the speed limit, as I'm sure most folks on here do :) ) and, unless the road is curving sharply or filled with traffic, I don't feel as if I'm going too fast. Of course, you may experience things differently, but I hope you understand what I was trying to convey.
    Edited by 2 at 17/12/09 @ 18:41

  • Josh128 #136 2 years ago

    @ semitope

    The point of my statement is that if they want to release the game with a solid framerate, theres no reason they cant. Its a matter of priority. They have to first make a conscious decision as to what is more important-- solid 60fps gameplay (of course at the highest detail levels at which that is still possible), or uncompromising photo realistic visuals (which would most likely require a locked 30fps). You can't have both and it would just be sloppy to release it with a stuttering framerate. GTs have been 60fps games since 3. That said, as the owner of a neither a PS3 or Xbox, I hate to burst anyones bubble who is hating on the unreleased GT5 because this demo drops frames when the ghost car is on the screen, but there is no way the final game is going to be released with that same problem-- the engine will HAVE to be capable of rendering multiple, non-interlaced cars onscreen at once without dropping to 30fps. Theres no way that thats not going to happen-- the game is way too high profile.

    @ funkateer

    I dont think you have anything to worry about, if the developers have any sense at all, they wont release the final game full of slowdown and frame hiccups. To do so would be financial suicide.

  • funkateer #137 2 years ago

    "I dont kow how to break this to you. But I think your PS3 is about to crap-out. "

    Hm I hope not, you don't even notice the really big stutter at the start/finish line? That's the most noticable but it happens everywhere at seemingly fixed points. It doesn't happen on GT5:p though, this timetrial demo seems to be the only game that behaves like this.

    I have to say after spending some more time with it, the physics are not 'somewhat more realistic' as I mentioned earlier, but they're really MUCH improved.

  • fknetwork #138 2 years ago

    Just tried the demo, NOT what I was expecting at all, not impressed!
    It took more than 5 years to make a game with graphics as basic as this? the track detail is poor and I mean poor! the framerate is all over the place too, not silky smooth like forza 3 that's for sure!

  • fknetwork #139 2 years ago

    @ Colossus80, your an idiot
    Even the DF test showed the framerate as skipping and slowing down with only one ghost car on track yet "yours" is perfectly fine, of course it is lmao, the framerate on mine is far from "silky smooth" and many others are saying the exact same thing, not good really....
    Edited by 1 at 17/12/09 @ 19:14

  • Law07 #140 2 years ago

    I can't honestly comprehend how people are complaining about frame rate drops, I noticed nothing apart from the start/finish line.

  • JamieR #141 2 years ago

    those of you who have had the time to download the demo you should see what the trees look like they look like they from a playstation 1 game. the crowds on the other hand look alright a lot better than the they looked in the video and the textures are a lot more detailed than they looked in the video also the game is smooth and i noticed no problems with frame rate and the handling is the worst I've ever come across in a game ever.

  • El-Dev #142 2 years ago

    I think those who are coming from Forza over to play this will struggle, you have to be a hell of a lot more precise with the analogue movements in this demo than you do in Forza 3. It may make it a bit inaccessible for some, but then again the full game will use a learning curve by starting you off in slower cars and building up your skill as you go along and moving on to better cars.


    Haven't spent too much time looking at the trees though if I'm being honest. Was a bit busy playing the game. Though I may go back and look at them at some point in the future. Could be the difference between me buying this game and me not buying this game.

  • funkateer #143 2 years ago

    "Also, turn off or down the traction control and the car feels much more alive and the back actually steps out a bit more realistically."

    Absolutely! Turning off traction control is the first thing I do since GT4, because otherwise it handles like a turd.

    "Still no sign of tearing or slowdown though, I fear you might have an issue with your PS3 or setup somewhere funkateer. "

    I'm not experiencing any tearing (unlike GT5:p), just horrible framerate hickups. To be honest I prefer tearing to these hickups, but who knows, maybe my PS3 is on the verge of being buggered.... Strange though that this demo is then the only game to show problems.

  • ronuds #144 2 years ago

    @ Colossus

    I don't think 943rd is anything to be ashamed of! Unless there are only 944 rankings...

    :p

  • Skurmedel #145 2 years ago

    Can you tune the stick sensitivity? That should make it a bit more accessible. I could barely drive some cars in Shift for example, before tweaking the sticks and the dead zones.

    As I just saw this will be wheel compatible, I more or less assume there are options for that.

    I can't spell today...

    (lol -1 for this too, friendly bunch this.)
    Edited by 4 at 18/12/09 @ 15:42

  • Badassbab #146 2 years ago

    I've just played the demo and will wait till we get a proper demo or the full release before I pass judgement on GT5. As for the 'demo' that was released, well apart from the resolution and AA not impressed really. Not a good start. You can tell the frame rate is not a steady 60 like Forza which is very surprising considering the track is just plain looking and with only one car. Also the handling feels really light and floaty. Forza just feels better and sounds more exciting. It's more loud and proud. Of course this is just a 212mb demo so will wait till GT5 for a real comparison. PD really don't have an excuse to not better FM3.
    Edited by 1 at 18/12/09 @ 00:47

  • Badassbab #147 2 years ago

    Actually having played it more...I do like the way the car feels in the cockpit view simply because the bumps in the road are accentuated to a much higher degree than before and I like that a lot. I felt that was missing in Forza 3 and I'm glad to see it here.

  • o_ci2007 #148 2 years ago

    After all the bashing that this demo has received GT5 will delayed indefinitely. Polyphone had an opportunity to showcase what they have been up to in the last 5 years and they give us this. Its not bad but our expectations have not been met by a long shot. I was simply expecting everything GT5 to pulverise Forza 3. Demo, game and all but this is a bit of a disappointment. When are the excuses going to stop, GT5 Prologue was just a "demo" not representative of the game and the demo is also not representative of the game, just bring out the game.
    Edited by 1 at 18/12/09 @ 04:14

  • Edwin #149 2 years ago

    Played the demo, thought it was pretty good... well good enough for me to go round and round and round the stupid track trying to better my lap. So it must be quite good, now must try to get under 4000th!!! yep, I am shit.

    @farticus

    Have you joined the darkside and purchased yourself a slim in recent weeks?

  • Edwin #150 2 years ago

    @farticus

    goodman, and about time.

  • SaberEdge #151 2 years ago

    I actually downloaded the demo and, well, I was disappointed to be honest. I have Forza 3, but after the way it was constantly attacked and people were proclaiming GT5 to be so much better I thought it would surpass Forza 3.

    However, not only does it not surpass Forza 3, but it isn't even as good in my opinion. The textures and detail are better in Forza 3 and the whole game just looks and runs better.

    Now, don't take this as me attacking GT5 because I love both series and I am a fan of both consoles. I just hope that the people claiming the full game will be much better are right, because right now it is not that impressive. It will still be a good racer, though, so in the end I guess it's not too big of a deal. After I get over my disappointment I will probably just enjoy it like Forza 3.

  • milky_09 #152 2 years ago

    for fucks sake forza 3 demo was a+ 1.25 gb in size featured a track and a handful of cars. the time trial gt academy demo yes is running off the gt5 engine but it is mainly a showcase of the physics... come on ppl do the math... a 220mb time trial with a few less cars. theyve clearly cut things out to keep it as quick as possible for people to get while keeping the visuals looking acceptable.

    i think either ur tv is fucked or you cant see. i didnt think it look half as bad as whats being made out for a 220mb demo vs a fully fledged over 2 dvds xbox game. us your head chaps... polyphony arent gonna release a bad final looking game... take gtpsp for example looks fucking awesome for a psp game. granted no gt mode but still cant take away from what they ve achieved on each platform theyve worked on.

    look at the videos of from tgs 09 and the visuals look far far better for gt5... march cant come soon enough to shut you fucking fanboys up.

  • SAH1977 #153 2 years ago

    When you read of people talking about a 'plain' track, which happens to be 99% realistic, and the lack of a sense of speed, with cars that in the grand scheme of things are desperately slow, you realise sims are probably of no interest to them.

    Complaints about the handling are understandable as GT5 is now a sophisticated sim, where as most people commenting come from an arcade, sim-lite perspective, were a control pad is good enough.

    As for complaints about technical issues, it's a pointless discussion, GT5 will feature 16 car grids, a sophisticated damage model, day/night transitions, weather, head tracking etc. Extrapolate these technical issues to the full title, as some would like you to, and GT5 would be running at 15-20 fps!

    Of course we all know GT5 will be silky smooth, even with all of the extra features, that's the PD way.
    Edited by 2 at 18/12/09 @ 12:00

  • Rodchenko #154 2 years ago

    Outright surprised seeing farticus make balanced, factual and altogether unagitated comments on a PS3 exclusive. Hasn't always been that way ;)

    ronuds on the other hand...

  • dsmx #155 2 years ago

    I put farticus on my ignore list months ago, is he actually starting to say things that contribute to a conversation and actually have merit. Or is he still spewing nonsensical bullshit that has no bearing on reality?

  • El-Dev #156 2 years ago

    It appears he's bought a PS3, Sony must have listened to his stinging criticism of them and repaired everything he wanted. Or else he realised he was getting on like an idiot and wised up. Who knows, it's nice to see him not calling everyone who owns a PS3 a c**t though.

  • DrStrangelove #157 2 years ago

    Played the demo now, and I'm very pleased. It looks and feels very real, control and response have improved enormously. Force feedback feels totally different from Prologue, so much better. Music is as rubbish as ever, but I turn it off anyway.

    They did it all right in my book. Can't wait for the full game.

  • dsmx #158 2 years ago

    I'd point out that the psp version had mp3 playing ability so chances are GT5 will as well.

  • funkateer #159 2 years ago

    Weirdly enough the weird framerate judders I was experiencing yesterday seem to be gone, except the one at the finishing line... I was downloading a lot in the background at the time, perhaps that had anything to do with it? Who knows...

    Anyway, now that's out of the way I think this demo is very promising of the real thing. It feels great, looks great and plays great. Add an overdose of content, and GT5 might become a winner after all.

    Since I'm not at all done with the fantastic Forza 3 yet, it's be easy for me to be patient until the release :-)

  • El-Dev #160 2 years ago

    Good point funkateer, if GT5 comes out in July/Aug time that means there will be at least 10 or so months to play Forza without having disrupt it for another top quality driving game. So no need for "I like one so the other one has to be shit" as it's pointless and is a lie because they are quite similar as some may have noticed.

  • Aenima_pt #161 2 years ago

    PPl that are concerned with the difficult showed in this demo, should note that the "demo" is locked in Professional driving style. GT5 will for sure come by default in Arcade driving Style, with the option to switch to Professional. Same thing as GT5 Prologue.

    In prologue i drived in Arcade style, but with all assists off, that gave me a good sense of realism without being too unforgiving. The Profissional driving style is a though cookie, but after some laps i got the hand of it and start enjoyed the realism and the challenge.

    Cant wait for the final release.
    Edited by 1 at 19/12/09 @ 06:31

  • gnrlstuart #162 2 years ago

    it looks fantastic, but sadly it hasnt won me over to buying a ps3. ill stick with gt-psp and forza i think.

  • Chiem #163 2 years ago

    Very dissapointed about this demo. Its far from the kickass-shit PD promised us. Sure the physics are nice but it was about time the GT-series finally got physics. Still curious about the AI cause the GT series always had scriped AI, which aint AI tbh.

    But its very sad to see the engine has troubles to render at 60fps whilest there is only one (ghost) car on the track. What if there are 16 cars on the track and adding some real AI and dmg....? I hope we all are wrong and the final build will kickass, but I seriously doubt it. Too bad though cause I was really looking forward too a superb racer.

  • DrStrangelove #164 2 years ago

    It seems to be much harder rendering a translucent ghost car than a normal one. When I played Prologue again yesterday, there was little trouble with 16 cars, less than with the ghost car in sight at least. When I came close so that it occupied a great part of the screen (which means most of the scene had to be rendered through a transparent 3D model) there was considerable slowdown.

    I'm sad to tell I have no Xbox, can anybody tell me how well Forza 3 handles the ghost car?

  • zErOb_cOOl #165 2 years ago

    Hmmm, Polyphony Digital seemed to be more 'at one' with the PS2 than Yoda was with the force...what they graphically got out of the PS2 was astounding.

    Doesn't seem to be quite the same case here with GT5, but the game is looking pretty stunning.

    Also interesting to see the 1080p mode doesn't run at the full 1080p resolution, 1920x1080 px, and the native resolution of the game is stretched horizontally to meet the full HD resolution....not that any other games output at pure native 1080p resolution to my knowledge!

    Will any games manage this in this generation?!

  • DrStrangelove #166 2 years ago

    I think Pixeljunk Shooter does ^.^

    But no game with showcase 3D graphics will I guess, let alone one that runs on 60 fps.
    Edited by 1 at 20/12/09 @ 14:51

  • zztopp #167 2 years ago

    Look at what the GT5 fanboys have been reduced to...with no GT game to be had within the past 5 years, GT fanboys are left salivating at what could be, staring and analyzing videos and screenshots and cash-in demo launches, while Forza fans have been enjoying one of the finest sim games released in years.

    For the sake of argument, even though I dont agree with it, let DFs statement that GT5Pro looks 'classier' (whatever that means) than Forza 3 hold. I tried the new time trial demo and if its meant to showcase physics, then Polyphony has a heck of a lot of work to do to match Forza 3s incredible physics and sim calculations system. Taken as a package, the graphics + physics of Forza 3 smack anything shown in any of the GT5 demos out of the ballpark.
    Edited by 1 at 20/12/09 @ 19:07

  • jag10 #168 2 years ago

    @zztopp

    oh yeah lets just forget the fact that PD have been working with REAL racing drivers and the likes of NISSAN. 206 comments on a PS3 exclusive 200mb time trial, half of the comments by retarded trolls just copying what Greenberg said.

  • El-Dev #169 2 years ago

    /reads zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzztopps post...falls asleep.

  • milky_09 #170 2 years ago

    @ zztopp.

    for fucks sake are you a total wank stain? this is a fucking demo to showcase the physics... a 200mb demo at that. its not final yet and regardless of what digital foundry state the game is not complete yet...

    a 200mb demo with a car, network features, textures, ui, audio and a full track. pesonally thats pretty darn good for a hd demo.

    some photoshop textures can be huge, 3d files of a full car/ high or low poly will still be pretty big. and then the fucking track.

    im actually suprised the demo was so small.

    forza 3 full game demo had a 50 second long track and 3-5 cars... how big was that? thats right almost 6 times bigger...

    if anyone here had the ability to head over to gt website in the us language... it fucking states its a demo to showcase the physics and was purposely made for gt academy. so digital foundrys claim this is final final build is bullshit. if it was wheres the damage... if it was why are most audio settings removed... why the visuals toned down. lower res textures etc. because it was to showcase the fucking physics.

    stick your head up ur ass you know sweet fuck all about game developement.

    forza 3 physics are nice yes... witha pad. to keep it acessible to sell as many copies as possible. that baton has been passed to forza 3...thats why its fucking dropped from sales chartz... wow 1 mill sold...wont even top gt5 prologue overall sales.

  • Mentor73 #171 2 years ago

    milky_09 - let us be more real.
    After information of 1 milion copies sold, Forza 3 is still holding steady position in game charts; UK charts even in 10 best selling games.

    And Forza 3 physics are nice even with wheel and with assists turned off.

    BTW as a potential GT 5 buyer I would like to know, why plain graphics in a demo, that represents in one or another way finall product? And even if it's just for physics, why unstable frame rates with only 2 cars?

  • aphexstwin #172 2 years ago

    forza 3 with a wheel is a very weird place to be. it doesnt align for camber, gt4/5p does. it doesnt detect bumps in the road, gt4/5p does. le mans, nurburgring and sebring are hard, challenging and very bumpy circuits, all totally absent on forza 3, but is there (except sebring) on gt4. the nurb on f3 is also wrong in many ways: no gravel traps, the concrete is wrong on the karrussel's, the touristfahrten road is too short and adenauer forst has the wrong profile. ive said this before. gt4/5p shits all over f3 when using a wheel.

  • LordVonPS3 #173 2 years ago

    On the point of whether the GT Academy time trial represents the finished game...

    You can see the difference between the high-res and low-res textures used for the first two road side grass tiles / textures and the rest of the grass at this link courtesy of Taxigamer.com. here

    It's also worth comparing the track in the in-field sector... here... With the oval section of the track, where you can see the grooves in the track surface... here.

    It's easier to see the difference yourself on a decent 1080p TV. Assuming of course that you have one to see it with.

    Will things change for the finished version of the game? Refer to Sony's blog statement in the lead up... here. N.B. "To enter the Academy racers will have to post their best overall leaderboard times negotiating a *specially created section* of a new Gran Turismo 5 circuit."

    Specially created for what? ;-)
    Edited by 2 at 23/12/09 @ 03:05

  • TRUTH #174 2 years ago

    Hope they sort the boomerang 16 car effect - this happened in all previous GTgames... though racing 14(+) cars only seven or less are actually in view onscreen at any one time!...cars usually followed behind you out of view then caught up if you slowed. Cars ahead of you disappeared. This method never really uses 14(+) cars onscreen, only a certain amount of cars a displayed at one time either in front or behind - but never the full amount together...Though Grid managed to show 14 cars with excellent crash damage quality graphics and physics, good AI - I believe the game ran at 30fps. I would prefer this rather then 60fps but the loss of proper damage, less cars in view (boomerang), and drone AI.

    Dirt 2 still looks like the best looking driving game with realtime damage, particle effects and graphical touches (though the game was ruined by Americanism X-Sports instead of real rally).

    Edited by 2 at 25/12/09 @ 23:32

  • Keivz #175 2 years ago

    Need for Speed Shift owns all:

    [link url=http://www.needforspeed.com/S peedAPI/ws/game/1.0/nfsps2-pc/photomode/44417291/image ]http://ww w.needforspeed.com/SpeedAPI/ws/...[/link]

    [link url=http://www.needforspeed.com/S peedAPI/ws/game/1.0/nfsps2-pc/photomode/44968652/image ]http://ww w.needforspeed.com/SpeedAPI/ws/...[/link]

    [link url=http://www.needforspeed.com/S peedAPI/ws/game/1.0/nfsps2-pc/photomode/44969030/image ]http://ww w.needforspeed.com/SpeedAPI/ws/...[/link]

    Superb lighting and unmatched car models at 60fps on the PC.

  • Roarrr #176 2 years ago

    @Keivz
    I like shift, but imho you're wrong. The handling model is without question the worst this gen. It sits firmly in neither arcade or sim. A no mans land of meh.

    Graphically yes its great but no, the game still is poor. If buy 'ownz' you mean graphically, then perhaps. Though the lighting model on the cars still needs work.

  • El-Dev #177 2 years ago

    Well I was playing Forza online, had a bit of a crash and the car went like the ghost car in the demo and the frame rate definately stuttered.

  • belziah #178 2 years ago

    Pole Position - Atari 400 pisses on this and Forza

  • LordVonPS3 #179 2 years ago

    Ha-ha-ha... http://ww w.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5s-...