GT5 2.0: Why You Need To Go Back

By Martin Robinson Published 21 October, 2011

12 months on, what's changed in Polyphony's racer?

Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness patched upon 'em. When it launched last November, Gran Turismo 5 was certainly marked with brilliance; a work of slavish endeavour, its dedication to recreating the automobile in many of its forms elevated the simulator to a form of art, with a poetry at the heart of Polyphony's game that its peers have failed to emulate.

This single-mindedness did more than bless Gran Turismo 5 with a certain genius, though. So studied was the studio in its craft, so obsessed with its work, that it seemed to take its eye off of the fast evolving word of driving games around it, and when it launched Gran Turismo 5 was as archaic as it was artful.

An online mode crippled by an obtuse front end, an interface that was willfully difficult and a spread of content obscured under a dense lattice of menus all suggested that Polyphony's attention was elsewhere.

But the past year has seen Polyphony turn its attention to the community, compiling feedback and slowly chipping away at its creation, fine-tuning it with iterative tweaks. Nearly twelve months after the initial release playing Gran Turismo 5 is a markedly different experience, and undeniably a better one.

Since day one the updates have been steady and constant, reaching a head with last week's Spec 2.0 release that's the most serious overhaul yet. Placing such a weighty patch up against the release of Forza Motorsport 4 was endearingly combative if a little crude, and it brazenly invites comparison between the two.

On-track it's still Gran Turismo that's the superior game - and it helps that Polyphony has recently adopted one of the world's greatest circuits in the long overdue first batch of DLC. Spa Francorchamps provides the perfect arena to highlight Gran Turismo's handling supremacy, and this famed stretch of tarmac that runs through the Ardennes has arguably never been so well adapted in a game.

1

Gran Turismo's cars certainly bite, but they don't quite have the bark of Forza's garage. It's a problem that's unlikely to be remedied in Gran Turismo 5, and the raw timbre of Forza Motorsport 4's cars puts Polyphony's efforts to shame.

The fast uphill sweep of Eau Rouge highlights how Polyphony have managed to convey a tangible sense of weight through mere code and plastic, the car's balance shifting perceptibly as you reach the kink and the tarmac sucks you in. Elsewhere, Pouhon shows how well Gran Turismo communicates the differences between cars - you'll need to show your intent a couple of hundred yards beforehand in a Lotus Elise, unbalancing the rear end with a dab of brake before sending it to the apex, while in one of the newly added race-spec GTRs sweeping left hander can be handled in the moment.

Meanwhile Les Combes and La Source show where Gran Turismo 5's real genius lies. It's in the braking zones, where cars dance and skitter with an alarming intensity, that Polyphony's work really marks itself apart from Turn 10 whose Forza 4 feels comparatively timid.

Gran Turismo 5, now as ever, demands wide-eyed attention at every turn, and in this regard it's very much the Dark Souls of driving. It's got its own Blighttown too, in the form of a drive around the Nordschleife in the dead of night, an experience that's as terrifying and as challenging as anything in From Software's game.

It's a combination that featured in the original, unpatched release of Gran Turismo 5, but now it's more openly accessible. Gran Turismo 5 was once infuriatingly coy about its offerings, hiding its variable time and weather options and limiting them in their implementation.

They're front and centre now (or at least they are on the handful of tracks they're available on), adjustable in the race menu that precedes an event. Track conditions can be set, as can the time of day and the speed with which time passes - and these simple options work together to unlock much of Gran Turismo 5's potential, allowing you to attack Le Mans under a setting sun or to burst the clouds that hang over Spa Francorhamps.

It also unlocks the diversity that's Gran Turismo's own, an aspect that's been boosted by the introduction of in-car cockpits for the game's 800 plus standard cars. Lacking the splendor of the premium cars', they're admittedly little more than a silhouette for the majority of models - though it certainly helps bridge the gulf between the standard and premium, and makes the prospect of driving some of Gran Turismo 5's curios a little more palatable.

It's a diversity that's acknowledged in the downloadable car pack. Yes, it's clogged by the inclusion of another batch of Skylines and an assortment of Japanese racers that fail to stir the heart, but in the X2011 - a slight tweak of the imagined supercar designed by Red Bull's Adrian Newey - and the trio of new karts it goes to illustrate the breadth of this automotive encyclopedia.

Those karts are bolstered by the addition of Kart Space II, an all-new indoor track that, with its excess of colour and neon, has something of Fun House about it. It's as lurid in its design as it is in its aesthetic, a pleasing collection of fast right angles perfect for clipping through and a central loop that can be taking in one long, lazy slide.

It's unfortunate, then, that neither new tracks are included in any meaningful way in Gran Turismo's A or B Spec campaigns. They're yet to be acknowledged in the Seasonal Events either, though that's certain to change shortly.

2

Replays can now be rewound or fast-forwarded, making it easier to pinpoint photo opportunities.

In the twelve months since Gran Tursimo 5's launch it's those Seasonal Events that have provided the incentive to return on a regular basis, with the rewards ramping up to the point where, quite recently, it was possible to become a multi-millionaire on the back of one quick race. A broken economy, yes, but one that was certainly entertaining to indulge in.

The overblown Seasonal Event rewards of recent months have now been replaced by a consecutive log-in bonus and a renewed emphasis on online races that Gran Turismo 5's multiplayer suite still struggles to support. Despite a constant trickle of updates and the slightest of overhauls, Gran Turismo 5's online racing remains deeply flawed, its convoluted Lounge system a poor replacement for half-decent matchmaking.

It's one area that makes Sony's decision to place Gran Turismo 5 toe-to-toe with Forza 4 seem particularly unwise, as put in relief to Turn 10's broad and compelling online aspects Polyphony's game feels criminally lacking - and a large number of the issues raised just after release are yet to be addressed and likely never will.

It's a rather large blot on what's otherwise been a remarkable journey for Gran Turismo 5, and one that you have to applaud Polyphony for taking. To choose between this and Forza 4 would be a fool's work; both offer takes on the genre that are now different enough to complement each other, with Forza's emphasis on Community marking it out for one audience while Gran Turismo's precision marks it out for another. If you're looking for a diversity of driving experiences, then Gran Turismo's always been the best - and now it's that little bit better too.

Picture of Martin.

About Martin Robinson

Martin is Eurogamer's features editor with responsibility for commissioning, editing and often writing our feature and preview content. He's also passionate about driving games.

Read more articles from Martin by visiting the Martin Robinson archive page.

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Comments (102) Latest comment 7 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Stu #1 7 months ago

    Too late, I traded mine in a couple of weeks ago - it was just sitting on my shelf because I didn't have the energy to labour through 150 labyrinthine menus before getting into a race.

  • sfp_noodle #2 7 months ago

    GT5 Spec 2.0 should be released on a remastered disc which cuts down install/load times and includes all the updates. If someone bought GT5 today for the first time I would really really feel sorry for them. It would take them an hour to install and then the rest of the day to download and install all the updates.

    Having said that though, the game is absolutely fantastic. It's a completely different game than the one that launched last year and the only thing keeping it from getting formally re-reviewed is because it's just a free patch and not an official disc release. This needs to be released at retail. It's a monster of a game.
    Edited by sfp_noodle at 21/10/11 @ 15:10

  • neosalad #3 7 months ago

    As i've only recently delved into "the fourth place" and GT5 was one of the fist games i got i've only really known the spec 2.0 version... which is probbaly just aswell i guess...
    still find the controls a bit awkward compared to xbox360 triggers for accelerate/brakes, using the thumbstick again instead, reminding me of the PS1 days of GT1. :)
    shame the recently released platinum version hadnt been slightly later and had the spec 2.0 update included though as there's a fair few updates to download before you get to play! and i'd hate to be on a download cap... that would be awful.
    Edited by neosalad at 21/10/11 @ 15:20

  • bluenicks #4 7 months ago

    I did go back, and yes, the complete lack of any sense of speed and non-existent damage modelling means it's going back on the shelf to gather dust. Still, can't argue with the content provided since release, which is great for those that enjoy the game.

  • StooMonster #5 7 months ago

    Hydrophobia 2.0
    Witcher 2 2.0
    Gran Turismo 5 2.0

    Is there a trend here?

  • curryking3 #6 7 months ago

    ^They are all awesome after 2.0.

    Except one of those... no it's not GT5!!! Chavs... lol.

  • cyber_nicco #7 7 months ago

    Who is this writer? Handling supremacy?

    We get it, the author is a Gran Turismo fanboy. I guess I should be glad they have anything new to read on the weekend.

    p.s. I own and enjoy the game.
    Edited by cyber_nicco at 21/10/11 @ 15:23

  • homerramone #8 7 months ago

    "On-track it's still Gran Turismo that's the superior game "
    No it isnt.

  • bratmandu #9 7 months ago

    "It also unlocks the diversity that's Gran Turismo's own, an aspect that's been boosted by the introduction of in-car cockpits for the game's 800 plus standard cars. Lacking the splendor of the premium cars', they're admittedly little more than a silhouette for the majority of models - though it certainly helps bridge the gulf between the standard and premium"

    Is this a joke? How can any reviewer claim that sticking an identical totally black silhouette over the screen boosts diversity? It looks absolutely atrocious and is a slap in the face to customers.

    Your credibility is shot, Martin. If any of you haven't seen it - look it up before you neg me and see the slap in the face that this 'feature' is to whoever bought this. Shame on the writer of this article for not coming down like a ton of bricks on this shoddy piece of software.

  • UncleLou #10 7 months ago

    I did go back, and yes, the complete lack of any sense of speed

    Lack of any sense of speed? Can't confirm that at all. Which camera perspective do you use?

  • King_Edward #11 7 months ago

    @UncleLou He clearly uses the shoddy behind car view. The cockpit view is intense.

  • Dr.Buckles #12 7 months ago

    I update mine, it took me back to the old days :D

    I now remember why I hated GT5 with such a passion, massive disappointment.

  • IronGiant #13 7 months ago

    GT5 is by far the better driving sim, Forza is the better racing sim though this time around the AI has taken a turn for the worse.

  • technicianTed #14 7 months ago

    I'd like to see the game re-reviewed, just to see if it scores as highly as forza 4.

    Just for the sake of it.

  • ruisranne #15 7 months ago

    So its Forzas community features that balances out this fantasticness of true joy of driving splendor that is GT5? I'm not accusing of fanboyism, but hell...

  • homerramone #16 7 months ago

    "As someone who owns both, I will agree with the writer that GT5 is the best experience on track. "
    As someone else who owns both I would disagree and say that it isnt.

    We can argue this from now until GT6 (which is a loooong time) nothing will change. They are both good. But to each his own. Some prefer GT5 and some prefer Forza.

    To say one is better than the other is complete bollocks. Which is my point.

    (And for the record, im playing them both with a Fanatec GT2 wheel, from in car).

  • obidanshinobi #17 7 months ago

    "Meanwhile Les Combes and La Source show where Gran Turismo 5's real genius lies. It's in the braking zones, where cars dance and skitter with an alarming intensity, that Polyphony's work really marks itself apart from Turn 10 whose Forza 4 feels comparatively timid."

    What ?

    I found the braking and handling is a lot more forgiving in GT5 than it is Forza 4 (without using rewinds of course).

  • cloudskipa #18 7 months ago

    @cyber_nicco

    It is the same person (Martin Robinson) who also wrote the horrible Forza 4 review here too. It is obviously to all and sundry he is a GT fanboy, and this was picked up upon by many people with Forza 4 review, so no real surprises here...

    Turn 10 worked with Pirelli and went to huge lengths to include accurate tire data and yet GT5 is more precise?. Maybe those PS2 model cars and blacked out dashboards are a part of this "precision" you speak of? Or is it maybe the fact all the cars sound like vaccum cleaners and kazoo's? Interesting article, but it helps to be non-partial.

  • Bombonera #19 7 months ago

    The game was already brilliant when it came out. Now it's better. I actually feel sympathetic towards anyone who has owned GT5 and got rid of it. It's that good.

  • riseer #20 7 months ago

    Been playing everyday since 2.0 hit i love it.It's a flawed game sure but it offers some great sim racing.

  • lcmnick #21 7 months ago

    Post deleted at 12:48:44 14-04-2012

  • chris_ace #22 7 months ago

    Post deleted at 11:55:13 13-12-2011

  • CypherQ #23 7 months ago

    Own both FM4 and GT5 have to say they complement each other really well. FM4 is a great fun game - but even with all the driving aids off the cars still handle a bit to well sometimes - just not twitchy enough. In GT5 the cars feel much more of a handful when you turn all the assists off and you constantly feel that you are on the edge. Hard to explain really. Also GT5 supports a wider variety of wheels than Forza - which is a shame because there is no decent mid-range priced wheel for Forza that has force feedback (ie: equivalent the Logitech GT5 wheel). As for the poster that mentioned a lack of speed in GT5? Have you tried the Red Bull experimental car? :) (free to download at the moment). Also damage is there in GT5 it's just not fully operational until you play through the game a bit.

    Which one do I prefer?.... Forza. Like the community aspects, car customisation, general presentation etc. Just a more fun game. GT5 feels ruthlessly clinical in comparison - which is no bad thing.
    Edited by CypherQ at 21/10/11 @ 16:00

  • Cobalt_Jackal #24 7 months ago

    BTW here is the new GT5 Spec 2 intro. (IMO its the best intro since GT2).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOS4Gan7OH0

  • Widge #25 7 months ago

    The Red Bull car needs to be renamed The Wall Botherer.

  • captain_Carl #26 7 months ago

    @bratmandu


    Around the time of the launch people were all complaining and whining that they should do exactly what they have done in terms of cockpits. "We don't care if they're all the same, just give us cockpits" so PD did as the community asked. Now everyone complains that they're all the same.

  • CypherQ #27 7 months ago

    "The Red Bull car needs to be renamed The Wall Botherer."

    :D Absolutely.... Also for anyone drawing comparisons between the two games. Pick a car and go for a run around the 'Ring on both games. :) The rendition of the 'Ring on GT5 has no equal on a console driver IMHO.

  • GamesConnoisseur #28 7 months ago

    Forza 4's Rivals is a very lovely mode, that got you regularly racing to beat friends and each other updated lap times, the Top Gear one a very good selections of car/courses.

    I also been playing GT5 2.0 games, sure much better but the differences maybe is Turn 10 provided services at launch more effectively and promises regular DLC and Poly caught up after a bit messy start.

    We can argue till we are blue in the face as to which provides better car, race, fun sims etc, I won't touch that other than to agree its wonderful to have choices and down to petson's preferences.

    I m sure that fans won't want Turn 10 or Poly to drop balls and to aim much higher, and sure that Forza 5 and GT6 will be much more close race...

  • Syrok Verified Community Coordinator, Tarsier Studios #29 7 months ago

    bratmandu said:
    "Is this a joke? How can any reviewer claim that sticking an identical totally black silhouette over the screen boosts diversity? It looks absolutely atrocious and is a slap in the face to customers.

    Your credibility is shot, Martin.    "
    By actually having played it and knowing that they are not identical.

    Your credibility is shot, bratmandu. ;)

  • jambii267 #30 7 months ago

    Great article.

  • StolenGlory #31 7 months ago

    bratmandu said:
    "Is this a joke? How can any reviewer claim that sticking an identical totally black silhouette over the screen boosts diversity? It looks absolutely atrocious and is a slap in the face to customers.

    Your credibility is shot, Martin."
    "By actually having played it and knowing that they are not identical.

    Your credibility is shot, bratmandu. ;)"

    Oooh, burn.
    Edited by StolenGlory at 21/10/11 @ 16:19

  • Totza #32 7 months ago

    People that like Forza = casual scrubs

  • cardigait #33 7 months ago

    Updated review sounds quite "funboysh" to me. Just sayn', mind you, got fast bored from both the games, not my kind.

  • butler` #34 7 months ago

    I haven't played either. I want to buy one. I'm not going to ask: WHICH 1 IS BETTA?

    But I will ask: do either have demos?

  • ChuckNorris #35 7 months ago

    "No sense of speed." Lol what is this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEec6GJ8F...

  • Hindle #36 7 months ago

    Post deleted at 23:04:43 04-04-2012

  • technicianTed #37 7 months ago

    I don't know why people are getting upset, it's only one guy's opinion on this website.
    You can see from the various reviews what game is held in higher regard.

    Even if it comes across as the article writer prefering GT over forza(although he didn't really say that), he still goes on to say positives about forza like:

    Gran Turismo's cars certainly bite, but they don't quite have the bark of Forza's garage. It's a problem that's unlikely to be remedied in Gran Turismo 5, and the raw timbre of Forza Motorsport 4's cars puts Polyphony's efforts to shame.

    Doesn't sound too biased to me.

  • BadFlounder #38 7 months ago

    @cypherq The "damage not being there initially in GT5" was proven false after the game launched....even Kaz himself tweeted about that not being the case. GT fanboys still insist on that being the case but the reality is there is no real damage model in GT5 outside of some basic options in one off races.....and that doesn't change by "playing for a bit".

  • lockload #39 7 months ago

    Way too late traded in 6 months ago

  • Zaiz #40 7 months ago

    Why are you comparing GT5 to ...Dark Souls!? Why? Did you pick the most popular, well respected game you could think of?

    Also I find it hilarious that this re-review of sorts only admits, at the end, the most broken feature is still terribly broken. This is after glowing praise for all the work Polyphony has done.

  • bratmandu #41 7 months ago

    Oh I see, some of the black silhouettes are different, good, well done, I'm totally burned to the ground. Miss the point much? It's simply not the level of quality I would expect in game hyped for it's realism and physics, and while the fanboys accept with open arms such shoddy work, developers will keep thinking they can get away with it.

  • ForburyLion #42 7 months ago

    I get the impression that if the article writer was to take to Spa in an actual Lotus he would probably still rank GT5 as being more realistic.

  • Darren #43 7 months ago

    I don't need to go back to GT5 as I have Forza 4 now and, IMHO, it's a far superior game in every way, especially when it comes to entertainment. The cumbersome menus, laborious loading times and dull single player mode killed off any enthusiasm I had for the series. Sorry!

  • Progguitarist #44 7 months ago

    lol...fanboy this, fanboy that.

    If you are fan of these types of games you'll buy both and play them to
    death.

  • TheDukke #45 7 months ago

    LOL, Eurogamer just forgot to Put in the article something important : Sponsoerd By Sony/Polyphony
    Even i am being a PS3 Player , i know that articicle is "strange", right a week after, or so, of the launch of Forza 4

  • Miths #46 7 months ago

    @obidanshinobi
    "I found the braking and handling is a lot more forgiving in GT5 than it is Forza 4 (without using rewinds of course)."

    You wouldn't happen to have ABS enabled, would you? With all driving aids off and a decent force feedback wheel, many cars definitely demand your attention during braking and down shifting. Although some cars are naturally a lot more stable and forgiving than others of course.

    @review
    "Yes, it's clogged by the inclusion of another batch of Skylines and an assortment of Japanese racers that fail to stir the heart"

    I'm rarely a big fan of Japanese cars - mostly preferring European cars - but some of the DLC cars are fantastic and instantly earned a space among my favourite cars. Most notably the MX-5 Roadster (a little underpowered for my taste, but stage 2 engine tuning and a supercharger helped a lot), the RX-7, The Skyline R33 and R32 and the Impreza.
    Engine sounds - a notoriously weak point of far too many GT5 cars in cockpit/bumper cam - are also strong in most of the DLC cars.

  • Caimbeul #47 7 months ago

    GT3 was the best for me...

  • frazzl #48 7 months ago

    I'll stick to Forza 4. I find it superior on the track, as well as online. After a 6 year development cycle to have to wait a further year to receive a (still lacking) update that should have been available on day 1 is unforgivable. At least now I know to safely ignore any further review from Martin Robinson :).
    Edited by frazzl at 21/10/11 @ 17:37

  • darc #49 7 months ago

    All of the language in this article would indicate that GT would be my franchise over Forza. ("Dark Souls of driving" is the sort of tagline that would generally cause my credit card to levitate out of my wallet...)

    I'm not a big online player, and by all means handling (which admittedly I find a *touch* more convincing in GT5) and "diversity of driving experiences" are - on paper - much more important to me. And yet, GT never seems to gel for me, Forza (mostly) is just more fun to play. Frankly, they're both sufficiently compelling racing sims to do the job for a layman such as myself. I've never driven a Ferrarri at Nordschleife (oh, how I suffer...) and I'm not going to pretend I have a sense of who's modeling tire deformation better. :/

    Before I continue - I think GT5 is an AMAZING technical achievement.

    But for me GT tends to feel like a dog's breakfast: weird hodgepodge of menus, assets modeled with wildly varying resolutions and polycounts and fundamental features. It's often beautiful, but it's just all over the place and it begins to hurt both my brain and my eyes. Forza shoots a touch lower, but it pulls it off consistently and I'm not constantly pulled out of the game by way of annoyances. (Devil in the details e.g. "This menu item is right and down, which way am I supposed to push the damn stick??";)

    And don't even get me started about how suddenly weird the otherwise hi-fi world of GT5 becomes as soon as you bump into another car, or any roadside object. For all the effort otherwise, immersion rapidly approaches zero.

    I also have never liked the way GT drops you directly into a race at pace. I know that's true to the way some classes of racing are judged, but one of my favorite moments of any race is keeping the car in check as you pull away from the line in the pack.

    Having said all of that, the 2.0 effort makes me happy I didn't sell back my copy of GT5. I'm genuinely excited to download the update and see if I can get on with the game now. But Polyphony and I generally seem to operate on different frequencies - I won't be surprised if it's better, but still just a little "off" to me.
    Edited by darc at 21/10/11 @ 18:02

  • frazzl #50 7 months ago

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOGV36EhpnM
    ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOGV36EhpnM
    </a>

    I love the cockpit view for the Bentley Speed 8. 7 years for this? *claps hands*

    And they still haven't gotten rid of the slowdown!
    Edited by frazzl at 21/10/11 @ 17:33

  • Breach #51 7 months ago

    Another well written race game piece from Martin Robinson.

    I put hours into racing games, and nothing is more annoying than a game from this genre being reviewed by someone who just doesnt 'get it'

    I own both Forza and GT and both have their good bits.

    Forza 4 seems to be going for the 'fun factor', its like GT and PGR had a baby.
    Its actually a perfect partnership they have their with Top Gear. Similar attitudes :)
    Really great game especially against friends.

    Gran Turismo 5. Just pure driving quality. If i HAD to choose, Gran Turismo would edge it.
    Edited by Breach at 21/10/11 @ 17:37

  • CypherQ #52 7 months ago

    @BadFlounder

    Apparently the damage is shown on the car models in different fidelity. Ie: Premium cars will have more damage than standard model cars. Premium Race cars apparently have more damage to the models than premium cars. Hence the longer you play the more likely you are to see more damage (as you climb through the ranks and hit race class cars). Anyhow all a bit confusing really and personally damage has never really affected my races in GT5 - has in FM though.

    Both great games for different reasons though. And good that they both are around because more competition = better games!

  • CernaML #53 7 months ago

    @Darren, because Forza doesn't have ridiculously long loading times as well. Spec 2.0 cut GT5's loading times in half by the way.

    Oh, and Forza 4's campaign isn't much different to Forza 3's. Repetitive and very... linear, imo. Everything is handed to you and I noticed that I keep racing on the same tracks over and over again with the same car. What's the point of hundreds of events when the content and variety is lacking?

  • darc #54 7 months ago

    "I love the cockpit view for the Bentley Speed 8. 7 years for this? *claps hands*"

    That one is pretty funny. It's the "I wish I had a smaller TV" option. ;)

    BUT I made the argument when GT5 first shipped that they needed an option like this, to keep the experience consistent for those of us who prefer the cockpit view. And as uninspiring as these may be, they are functional in that regard.

  • darc #55 7 months ago

    "Apparently the damage is shown on the car models in different fidelity."

    I can't say whether this is true because I never managed to clock enough hours into GT5 (the menus and loading just took the wind out of the sails for me.) But it's not really relevant to me either way. The lack of damage modeling isn't really what bothered me, so much as the sounds and physics during the collisions themselves.

  • weebl #56 7 months ago

    @homerramone

    Your contradiction earlier was hilarious

  • TheBrow #57 7 months ago

    I've come back because of 2.0 and it's bleedin' marvellous. I've not bought the DLC yet but it's probably only a matter of time before i crack.

  • Scimarad #58 7 months ago

    The responses in this thread are just hilarious:)

  • cloudskipa #59 7 months ago

    Why is there this underlying sense from some GT5 players that think of Forza as being a dumbed down, inaccurate arcade/sim racer?.. it's evident in people's comments whenever there's discussion comparing the two games. Is it just because Forza 4 has incredibly short loading times? a fun single player game? easy to navigate and sensible menu's etc? Just because it's uncomplicated in the menu's doesn't mean it is on the track.

    In fact Forza 4 is still a more accurate (on paper) simulation of racing than Gran Turismo 5. I know technical restrictions was a factor but Turn 10 didn't even want to put weather in Forza 4 unless they had the 100% correct wet tire data implemented into the game, now if you want precision, there it is.

  • cloudskipa #60 7 months ago

    "To choose between this and Forza 4 would be a fool's work; " ....agreee!


    "with a poetry at the heart of Polyphony's game that its peers have failed to emulate"

    "On-track it's still Gran Turismo that's the superior game" (note: no real reasons given)

    "that Polyphony's work really marks itself apart from Turn 10 whose Forza 4 feels comparatively timid"

    "If you're looking for a diversity of driving experiences, then Gran Turismo's always been the best - and now it's that little bit better too."


    ....oh

  • bionic #61 7 months ago

    GT5 2.0: Why You Need To Go Back

    I never went away ;P

  • tzu #62 7 months ago

    I have to admit, when GT5 was released I wondered whether the boys at Polyphony had literally locked themselves away in a cave somewhere & forgot about just how racing games have evolved over the several years that GT5 has been in development. I wasn't impressed with the finished product, even though I really wanted to be. The AI felt the same, lazy, predictable & familiar. The user interface was, & still is in some respects, laboriously boring to navigate through. The graphics, whilst crisp, seemed of lower quality that Prologue & it felt like somebody had just burst my baloon. The only thing that I enjoyed were the online battles & even that wasn't the greatest of experiences. Fast forward a few months & I began to see where the enjoyment of GT5 lies. Nurburgring, Grand Valley, Le Man's, Suzuka & now Spa for example. All very demanding in their own unique way. The attention needed to stay on the asphalt & doing it in a competitive, clean, fast race has become immense. Setting up a machine seems like a arduous task, wondering whether I'm going the right or wrong way with LSD or suspension, but nonetheless it's an education of some sort.

    The fact that GT5 is an evolving project is unsurprising to me. As games go we are used to having everything all in one package. Reading tweets & interviews with Kaz, its easy to understand GT5 is labour intensive & will more than likely be on slow cook for months, possibly years to come. Ok, maybe it's a little disappointing that all the toys aren't in there to start with, but you have to somehow respect the fact that sometimes people, or developers in this case, all do things differently that will set new precedents & would go so far as to believe that, like the machines developed for racing are living, breathing creations, GT5 could be considered as their silicon equal. such. Perfect, GT5 surely isn't & we know Kaz would agree with us on that. Bugs & inconsistencies, well, like the red sea, they're far & wide. However, you have to admit that as a ongoing development it's surely developing into a purely enjoyable piece of work.
    Edited by tzu at 21/10/11 @ 19:23

  • CernaML #63 7 months ago

    I can't help but feel that the same people who are calling out the author for bias are the same people who roll their eyes when people call out Richard Leadbetter for being biased towards the 360.

  • SavageEvil #64 7 months ago

    I own both of these games and FM4 is still just an update to FM3, it's much prettier but still some courses are carbon copies, Suzuka is the exact same even down to the wrong placement of the grand stands on the front straight. The physics in FM4 are getting closer to GT5's but all that data from Pirelli doesn't mean jack unless it's conveyed correctly(also that tire data would also be wet road data as well; yet no wet tracks and GT was doing this back on PS2) so just saying you got tire data and what not means little if for some reason cars all tend to be so damn easy to drive, with all aid off mind you. I don't drive GT5 much without ABS because it's a little scary in the high speed cars, trying to avoid lock up in heated moments in online racing. I don't even have that fear in FM3 or 4, it's just too easy to avoid lock up and save yourself once you do lock up. Immersion is when you actually feel that "omg, I can't mess up here else I will lose my position" GT5 does that while racing online, FM4 nope doesn't even happen the physics are too forgiving, they are better than FM3 but don't put that on edge feeling in you when racing online to keep your position.

    Honestly I wished that GT5 had the option to black out the premium cockpits as to me there is just too much going on in there and it's a bit of a distraction, unless you are in the McLaren F1 or an open top car, the black cockpits of the standard cars for some reason focus on the driving on where you are, because there is nothing else to look at which to me makes it easier to focus on my lines. When I saw the cockpits of standard cars I was like wow, blah, but after driving around in it, I choose standard cars over the premiums because of the interiors. But those interiors are missing the exterior bits, PD should turn those back on since cockpit is basically moving the camera to the interior driver position.

    I love FM4 for the awesome paintshop so you can really set yourself apart from the competition, cars become my own much more than in GT5. Nothing in GT5 comes close to that aspect of Forza 4, I enjoy the community aspect as well and the rivals mode is fun but I abuse it to gain money quickly as the season mode is one boring grind, sorry it is. Racing a series that just keeps getting longer and longer as you progress, wtf? What's worse is having to race the same course back to back, then rinse and repeat for the next course until you finish the series, that crap is boring as hell. Switching cars can alleviate it, but you are still doing the same thing repeatedly once you near level 50, nothing is new anymore. Thank goodness for the option to forgo that and pick and choose what you want to do.

    I enjoy both games and I play GT5 more because I use a G25 wheel and when I say, you get a better sense of driving with a wheel a controller pales in comparison. FM4 wheel is too bloody expensive right now and it retails in separate parts the hell is that about? Sometimes I just don't understand wheel makers, Logitech sold two wheel versions with wheel pedals and shifters in one package, why can't the rest of you do the same for a budget line. $500 is a lot to plunk down for a peripheral for use on a few games you know.

    Spec 2.0 is excellent, the new intro gives away a few new things, seems like more rally courses are coming back and what looks like the old Rome course as well, will get a video dissect to find out more. DLC coming to GT5, that means we might finally get all the courses from GT's past replaced(finally). Peace and love drivers, hit the road running!

  • betrayerofhope #65 7 months ago

    The reason Gran Turismo is successful is because it offers you something no other games out there can produce. Namely, the thrill of driving on a bumpy track like nordshelife from morning till night. It's magic and you have to experience it to understand.

  • Negotiator1 #66 7 months ago

    Martin Robinson a Sony fan boy I see, he said "on track its still Gran Turismo thats the superior game". Digital Foundry said,"The overall impression we get from playing both games back-to-back is that each has its own strengths: in terms of the handling and audio Turn 10 could well have moved ahead of its competition", and there is the truth.

  • hiscore #67 7 months ago

    They should have done free dlc instead of this. More people would return. In good business not everything is about money, it's also about respect.

  • agent55 #68 7 months ago

    Excellent article, and I agree GT5 is the more hardcore of the 2 franchises. It's laser-focused on what a car feels like and how it behaves when flogged... unfortunately that doesn't necessarily make it the most fun game ever thanks to some shoddy presentation/structuring. Love the Dark Souls comparison btw :D

  • smurphs #69 7 months ago

    I prefer the driving model in GT over Forza. It just feels right. Bumping other cars, however, just feels wrong, which is a great incentive to avoid doing so! Yes, GT's menus are crap, but it's career mode is much more satisfying imo.

    I just wish Forza or GT would adopt the superb cameras in NFS Shift, which give a fantastic sense of speed.

  • vizzini #70 7 months ago

    I think GT5 is one of those games that might be helped if it was completely download only; as like deep fighting games or karting games like Modnation, they need to live juke boxed in the unit so you can dip in and out of them when you have a spare moment, in between large single player campaigns that tend to be discs that live in the machine until complete.

    The other day I decided to downloaded 2.0 update and couldn't help but fire it up for a couple of hours for a quick razz, while the disc was in the drive. I still find the game brilliantly addictive(as my first real outing on a GT game other than HD Concept) and was pleasantly surprised to see the tearing was gone, bar the odd twitch in garage/pit crew scenes when not driving. I'm sure it is possible to stress it further to tear, probably in the Rome license challenge in the 1978 Ferrari, but they've definitely improved the game again.

    Will probably allocate some time for buying the DLC over Christmas, and rollout the steering wheel/pedals set again for a week.

    The biggest issue I'm have getting back to GT5 is that there is way too many good single player story based games coming and ones I've got to complete; there is just so much stuff to do in GT5 to keep one person occupied for far too long, and they are still adding.

  • mattius30 #71 7 months ago

    Am I the only person who isn't playing GT5 properly? I ask only because I have noticed no difference between old GT5 and 2.0. I still find it a joyless, hateful experience with labyrinthine menus, fussy car selection and a ludicrous car painting system that requires you to own a car and its colour before you can even use it - and once used its gone for good.

    I have been playing Forza 4 a week now and I haven't stopped racing. Its a racing game that wants you to race - whereas GT5 makes me feel incredibly alienated. In Forza 4 I am constantly spoonfed races and it always guarantees that I have the right car for the race. And in the race I feel like I am surrounded by real racers who all desperately want to win and are willing to make mistakes to get there. In GT5 I feel like I am the last car on a Scalextic track following last behind a line of driving robots.

    The only thing that keeps me coming back to GT5 is doing time trials on my own on the dynamic time and weather tracks. I can choose any car I like without having to memorise its make, length, BHP, PP etc and I can just soak up the wonderful atmosphere of tracks like Nurburgring. Without all the fuss and bother I find it a mesmerising experience.

  • Marshall2008 #72 7 months ago

    Sorry, waaaaay too much was wrong with this game that it got returned within a few weeks of release. Maybe if the design team actually worked on the game instead of acting like superstars and dicking about with cars (hey, who could blame them, the secrets of good racing games lie in the physics anyway). Anyhoo, they fucked it, it looks like shit, the front end is worse than a game boy game and Sony should fire the lot of hem.

    No 2.0 update will save them, polyphony should be shut down. Fuckwit fail whoooooors.

  • funkateer #73 7 months ago

    This article pretty much reflected my feelings of the game. It's pure genius when you're a driving addict and car lover, but it was flawed as a complete gaming product. But then again, everything that's genius is usually flawed:
    A Lotus Elise is pure genius, but has an impossible and leaky roof. An Impreza is pure genius, but is dog ugly. The Blade Runner movie was pure genius, but the perfect version doesn't exist.

  • Negotiator1 #74 7 months ago

    You have to wonder when GT 6 will be released, I think we will have Forza 5 and 6 before GT 6 on the next gen consoles. It is a joke to think it took them over 5 years and now an extra year on top of that to make a decent game, and still you have people defending them.

  • vizzini #75 7 months ago

    @mattius30

    When I play GT5, I use the traditional exam technique, start the first question, stick with it util it is done, move onto the next question. So basically I don't move onto anything else, until etiher the race, license challenge or special event I start goes gold.

    Getting gold with the lotus challenge on the top gear test track was worth the price of the game and logitech wheel alone for me. Power sliding that slipper eel with all that torque under foot and then going flat out on the straights and undertaking was the point I started to consider a dedicated room(the garage) in the house just for GT5, a projector, wheel/pedals and the 5.1 surround.

    Like every game GT5 has issues, but for playability, when it is good, it is tough to switch off imo.

  • Xardan #76 7 months ago

    Popular in here isnt it?

    Its the Gran Turismo brand people love as much as the game itself.

  • TheEnd #77 7 months ago

    I think some of the GT advocates in here are confusing 'awkward' with 'realism'.

    Frankly, as a long time sim-racer, Forza and GT are both very good sims, to the point where the differences in their physics come down more to perception that to anything else, especially in comparing FM4 (which has finally caught up to GT in terms of suspension modelling) and GT5 (which finally ditched ABS and unrealistic tyre grip). Both games manage to simulate the fine balancing act needed to control a car squirrelling towards the apex under brakes, and the careful modulation of accelerator to feed power through the tyres on the way out. Both games model tracks with fine detail, so that every small undulation is passed to the driver.

    Where they differ is how they serve that content up to the driver. GT (even in Spec 2) is slow and awkward, and simply setting up races requires far too much shuffling through menus. The quality of the cars is inconsistent, and even gaining access to the car you want can be an awkward experience if it isn't premium. Forza focusses on keeping you on the track, driving different cars and simply enjoying the experience. Apart from unicorns and some super rare classics, cars are readily available and every last one is carefully modelled. In terms of sound, GT still suffers from sounding like a vacuum cleaner factory, where as FM4 gives an unparallelled experience. As an experience, FM4 is the superior game.

    In the end, that is why, with both games in front of me, one gathers dust, the other has been played non-stop since launch. If I only had a PS3, I would be overjoyed with what is arguably a fantastic set of tweaks and improvements to the game, but having the choice... it's a no-brainer.

    The article should be retitled: GT5 - Why you need to go back (If you don't have an Xbox)

  • BuckEntropy #78 7 months ago

    Careful EG, you're really putting your reputation for Xbox bias in jeopardy here! ;-)

    Ahh who am I kidding, it wont change anything. lol

  • cloudskipa #79 7 months ago

    @TheEnd

    Very well said and a fair summary of what players of both games generally agree on, the internet over. I would personally love to know what set up Martin Robinson used for both this article and the Forza 4 review. Going by his comments in both it leads me to think it was Logitech G27 for GT5 and an Xbox 360 controller for Forza 4. Just a guess..

  • svenjl #80 7 months ago

    Love GT and Forza, nothing better for car lovers. But I'm not ashamed to say that the racing in the Shift series has me hooked. That's some fire and brimstone stuff if you have the skill.

  • ToAks #81 7 months ago

    my god,what is the world coming to....
    forums all over the net is littered with people bitching and complaining just about anything there is.
    Games,movies,cars,people,tv,magazines,goverment,food,prices,schools,hospitals and so on..



    so i will follow the trend and say WHAT THE FUCK guys, GT5 and FORZA4 are both awesome games so just shut up go play which ever you prefer of the 2.


  • Hamalot97 #82 7 months ago

    If you Enjoy Games where you can Hardly go round corners Thats up to you. By the way im talking about GT

  • ToAks #83 7 months ago

    @hamalot97

    never had such a problem with that, not even on the nordschleife complete track, but then again i know how to drive a car :p.


  • Diomedes117 #84 7 months ago

    Look at all the fanboys!! Commenting articles made EG so much better...
    Also, I'd really wish Martin Robinson didn't write reviews on EG, and racing games where reviewed by Oli Welsh or/and Tom Bramwell.
    Just sayin'...

  • Robm612 #85 7 months ago

    I would understand if the writer had said that GT5 was more fun on track or something of that nature, but unless he moonlights as a car reviewer, he could never know which handles more realistically as he hasn't driven 800 cars. I think that so long as a car reacts how you expect it to (ford mustang - like a boat, 458 - like a point shoe), feels unique and sounds right (which they certainly do in Forza, can't speak for GT5) then it is a pointless and long debate to argue which is more realistic as nobody can ever really know for sure. I just bought Forza 4 and it is a great game but the lack of weather effects is disappointing, so i might have to try out GT5 given the update as the menus is why i didn't buy it after playing at a friends.

  • betrayerofhope #86 7 months ago

    I bought the DLC pac and my word. Spa is just fantastic. This is what i like about Polyphony. They manage to convey the steepness of Eau rouge and the awesome corner of blanchimon. Truly awesome Devs. Ofcourse when you factor in that the track also has weather effects and you can tell PD are a master in their crafts.


    One thing Martin forgot to mention is the new SPEC 2.0 INTRO. Even if you don't like GT you owe it to yourself to watch it

  • Triggerhappytel #87 7 months ago

    I've never been a big fan of Sim racers, but recently I have found myself tempted to get GT5 now its dirt cheap. I like how with many first or second party Sony games they support them really well post release - such as MAG or Dead Nation, as two other examples.

    Sony also ought to release this on disc with all patches built in. Having to wait a whole evening to play any game is utterly crap.

  • Drygore #88 7 months ago

    @homerramone

    Simulation-wise, on console, it sure as hell is.

  • Uncompetative #89 7 months ago

    So, let me get this straight.

    1. Gran Turismo Classic
    2. Gran Turismo Premium
    3. Gran Turismo HD Concept 1.1
    4. Gran Turismo HD Concept 2.0 - announced, then cancelled
    5. Gran Turismo HD Concept 1.1 - bundled with...
    ... Gran Turismo 5 Prologue PlayStation Première HD video trailer
    6. Gran Turismo 5 Prologue
    7. Gran Turismo 5
    8. Gran Turismo 5 2.0

    WTF?
    Edited by Uncompetative at 22/10/11 @ 14:41

  • Widge #90 7 months ago

    Failing to see a point in that mess of a comment.

  • busboy33 #91 7 months ago

    @butler:

    FM4 does have a demo up on XBL. Its three different versions of their Bernese Alps track, with three different cars.

    Can't say one way or another with GT5, as I don't use PSN.

  • azic #92 7 months ago

    @obidanshinobi
    Yes because forza has no conception of grip.

  • IvorB #93 7 months ago

    I couldn't think of anything worse than playing either of these games. Just from reading about GT5 it sounds like a real hack job. At least the Forza guys are actually focused on making a great, complete product and not dicking around. I'm more a Wipeout and Twisted Metal kinda guy. Not sure I fit in here...

  • DoctorFraud #94 7 months ago

    Forza 4 is more realistic on track, better looking, better presented, not just a bunch of skylines and has a proper community and community tools.

    It's better in pretty much every way.

  • obscured021 #95 7 months ago

    Its great game made better with 2.0 but it still dose not hold a candle to live for speed or the GTR games on pc for proper handling.

  • UkHardcore23 #96 7 months ago

    Roll on 3.0 when they finally get rid of the PS2 cars.

  • Lucodeath #97 7 months ago

    Dont mention Forza in a positive way cos you get demonized by the SDF! An thats just an observation on this thread.

  • StoneHeart #98 7 months ago

    I am an avid Gran Turismo man, from the PS1 days, and even though GranTurismo5 was not what we all were expecting, it still delivered on its main goal, which was according to Kaz himself, trying to get you as close as possible to what it would be like to really drive these cars, which is the whole reason why I ever played Gran Turismo. Always the gameplay was never what you would consider fun, it was slow, bland, uneventful, but what it did right, was giving you that feel that you were close to the real thing. Now this comment is for the people that may argue you havent driven these 1000 cars, or you havent driven a ferrari at the Nurb, so how could you know if it's realistic with better physics, than this game or that game... My answer to you is this. I own two cars in real life, a CitroenXsara04, and a DodgeNeon03, both cars are in GT5 as standard models. They both handle EXACTLY as my cars do in real life, from the Citroens floaty suspension at 100KH on a smooth road, which starts to make the car kind of bob and lean left and right gently, but never letting the car settle on the road, a little thing like that, that I haven't noticed in any other car in all of GT5, that is exactly the same as my own personal car, is amazing to me. Not only does it do 0-100 in like 6 days just like my real car does, but it also has the problem I keep complaining about to the garage on my routine service visits. Which the mechanic assures me is normal, which now from GT5 I know to be true. :)... My Citroen has something like 120 HP or less(piece a shit), but if I release the clutch just slightly quickly while trying to accelerate, I get constant tire spin with out picking up hardly any speed, not just that but the torque always pulls the steering to the left. In GT5, with a G27 wheel, I get the same easy tire spin, with pull to the left... And this is a Standard car, not the premium models that have been obsessed over. My neon in real-life has painfully hard suspension in the rear, which makes going over simple bumps that feel small and insignificant as I go over them with the front tires, feels sudden and severe in the rear, plus it has horrible braking and strong understeer, all present in the GT5 version of the NEON which is also a Standard car. Two cars that I'm sure no one would ever drive, unless they actually owned them like I do, and they hold true to their true life counterparts in the smallest ways! If these 2 standard cars prove true to what I know is right, than I can be pretty sure that the Premium cars that have been loathed over, are pretty close to real-life as well... In closing, I would just like to mention that everyone that complains about the engine sound of the cars in GT5 in the inside cockpits and bumper cam views sound muffled or like hoovers,,, I can tell you that both of the cars that I own, in GT5 engine-sound is almost identical from the bumper cam, to the sound of my cars while I'm driving with the windows closed... People don't seem to understand that when a car drives by you in the street your hearing the sound from the exhaust, which is nothing like what the car would sound like if you were driving it. And to reinforce this point, I have a friend that owns a 07 GTR, and he swears to me that the cockpit sound of the GTR in GT5 is 100% identical to the sound of his car while he drives flat out...
    Thanks for reading.
    Edited by StoneHeart at 23/10/11 @ 10:33

  • basiclee #99 7 months ago

    I downloaded the (stupidly large) update and gave it a go, it's nice the developers have listened to players concerns over the last year and most of the complaints have all been sorted now.

    What didn't impress me was the fact that when I bought the DLC pack it just unlocked the content I'd clearly already downloaded in the update, for people who aren't going to buy the DLC this is a massive waste of storage space, time and bandwidth.

  • milky_09 #100 7 months ago

    only thing that gives forza any excitement in terms of racing is the ridiculous rubber banding. i drove the enzo on nurburing...was like driving a truck on an ice rink... cant imagine an enzo would understeer so bloody badly. jagged visuals.... not quite on par with gt5 im afraid... spa is incredible with a ferrari f1... hoping for donnington or silvestone.

  • JensonJet #101 7 months ago

    Just in time! I'm getting rid of it next time I buy a game. Charging customers for cars and tracks. They've taken the worst thing about Forza and added it to GT!! Before I bought the game I asked around and a few gamers assured me people played the game as a sim online. Really?? I had no idea every car in GT had ABS, traction control and electronic stability! Again, the same problem with Forza... people can't tune cars and rely on arcade settings to be able to compete. Finished with this series.

  • bcom77 #102 7 months ago

    I must admit, I am quite underwhelmed by the car pack offered by Polyphony. They had the chance to offer up some cars that have been released to the market in the year that the game came out (I'd kill for the chance to drive the new Lambo Aventador around the 'ring in GT5) instead we get numorous rehashes of Skylines. Hopefully more car packs will be released in the coming months. Don't get left behind Polyphony, you have SERIOUS competition from Forza now. It's time to reclaim the meaning of your tagline of "The real driving simulator".