Sony, MS don't understand console MMOs

By Robert Purchese Published 9 October, 2009

Cryptic says business side to blame.

Star Trek Online captain Craig Zinkievich has explained that the MMO is delayed on console because of "the business side of things". The game itself, he said, already runs on the machines.

"When it comes to the business, I'll be honest, the business part of bringing MMOs to consoles has been really sticky," Zinkievich told Eurogamer in an interview published today. "Trying to get Sony, trying to get Microsoft to really understand MMOs; really understand what needs to happen for MMOs, and then figure out all the business aspects of those games, has really been a difficulty for all of the MMO developers."

He said Final Fantasy XI - the sole MMO on 360 - was only possible because "so many exceptions were made" while Microsoft tried to establish market share. Getting the platform-holders to understand the technologies needed network-wise have been "the really big hangups".

"In terms of actually developing the game on the consoles?" asked Zinkievich. "I mean Champions runs on the console right now; Star Trek Online runs on the consoles right now; our engine - the Cryptic Engine - runs on the consoles."

"So I can guarantee that internally I can have Star Trek Online running on the consoles because I know I can, and we've done it. But it's that [business] side that I can't speak for.

"I can give you guarantees that if you really, really want, someone can come here and play it," he added.

Cryptic hasn't announced which consoles Star Trek Online will appear on, although you can probably rule out Wii.

The PC version of Star Trek Online is due out early next year. Check out our full interview with Craig Zinkievich to find out much more.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (37) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Xerx3s #1 2 years ago

    I don't think that it is interesting to have to pay extra money for people who already pay for live. MMO's on live should probably opt for a different money making model than subscriptions if they want any chance of becoming popular.

  • Toothball #2 2 years ago

    I play a lot of Phantasy Star Universe, and while it isn't particularlly MM it's definitely an ORPG. From what I gather getting updates and various clearances takes longer than would be preferred on the Xbox side of things due to all the certification issues. And with the way these games progress over time that doesn't seem to be the ideal way to manage games like this.

  • muscleblade #3 2 years ago

    I dont care. MMOs isnt my kind of thing. Borderlands with 4 player coop suits me better.

  • easychord #4 2 years ago

    I'm not sure why console owners would want MMOs on their platform. The most attractive thing to the MMO maker is that the customer regularly gives their cash directly to them. Sony and Microsoft would rather the customers bought lots of new games that they get a licence fee from. A hugely successful MMO would be like poison to them.

  • M_of_the_sys #5 2 years ago

    @easychord

    It's easy to play an MMO and other games as well.

  • easychord #6 2 years ago

    @M_of_the_sys: No it isn't. They are very time consuming and to say otherwise is symptomatic of something or other.

  • M_of_the_sys #7 2 years ago

    @easychord

    Maybe it's easier for some of us than it is for others then.

  • Collymilad #8 2 years ago

    "@M_of_the_sys: No it isn't. They are very time consuming and to say otherwise is symptomatic of something or other. "

    Yeah, it's symptomatic of playing an MMO but not wasting your entire life on it. It is possible, you know.

  • WinterSnowblind #9 2 years ago

    @lord
    How so? PC MMO's are constantly having to make concessions for lower end models, leaving us with games that look like Old Republic, a style that is horrible unfitting for the Star Wars Universe, it has to look simplistic to ensure it'll run on a wide array of machines.

    If it were a console game, there'd be no fear of that.

  • beastmaster #10 2 years ago

    Just charge a sub. How else would it work? The game would have to be 'not shit' though.

  • 52pickup #11 2 years ago

    The only Star Trek game i ever liked was Elite Force, that was a decent FPS, every other Star Trek game before and after that wasn't very good. The space combat on this game looks okay, just not sure about ground combat.

    As for which console(s) this is getting released on, who knows? I know there were talks about Paramount (Star Trek's liscence holders) merging with Sony a few months ago, those rumours may have died now though. I probably wouldn't buy it on any console, MMO's are better suited to PC's.

  • Chazmeister #12 2 years ago

    Why do some people seem to assume that folks paying for an XBox Live sub won't be prepared to pay for an MMO sub on top of that? I mean I already pay for my TV license, my broadband connection, my cable TV package, all of which cost much more than my XBL sub. So why would I suddenly balk at paying for an MMO sub?

  • miiiguel #13 2 years ago

    How so? PC MMO's are constantly having to make concessions for lower end models

    I'd go even further and say that's one of the reasons of their success.

  • easychord #14 2 years ago

    @beemoh: I imagine that needing to collect a full monthly fee without the platform holder taking a cut is one of the little details that companies like Microsoft and Sony "just don't understand."

  • Miths #15 2 years ago

    @Chazmeister

    I'm guessing even many gamers themselves must be guilty of subscribing to the old stereotype of most gamers being kids with the need for begging their parents for money, because otherwise I'm certainly also struggling a bit to see why €15 a month to play an MMO (quite possibly making you spend so much time that you'll often buy one or two fewer €60 regular games than you normally would) should be such a big issue for a console gamer.

    While I'm still quite happy using my PC for MMOs (currently playing Fallen Earth and occasionally Champions Online), I'm definitely looking forward to the day where I can also play an MMORPG on my PS3. I happen to love a comfortable chair, a 40" TV and a gamepad :).

  • DirtyDubs #16 2 years ago

    Who says there has to be a monthly fee to charge people? The most obvious route I would take is the micro transaction model. Everyone can play for free (if you bought the game of course) but if you want items without grinding, people can purchase them.

    (Re: Edit - Oh yeh, from the article they said that they have they games running on the console's and that you can see it if you really want to. How about you do go and see it and let us know what they're like?)
    Edited by 1 at 09/10/09 @ 16:27

  • optimusprym8 #17 2 years ago

    @miiiguel case in point - Guild Wars. Runs on the shittest of shit PCs, is still playable and looks not too bad

    I would probably play more MMOs if they were available on consoles, sitting at a PC/desk really puts me off PC gaming these days

  • kangarootoo #18 2 years ago

    Seems to me that the business side of things is the only barrier to putting an mmo on consoles. The hardware is up to the job, the chat services are all present and correct, the network is already there for you. Ideally, all 3 platforms would share the same world space so it wouldn't even matter what your client was running on. I know Blizzard have no plans to go onto consoles, so the opportunity is there for some dev to create a platform spanning mmo.

  • UncleLou #19 2 years ago

    If it were a console game, there'd be no fear of that.

    Yes, there would. MMOs do not only look a bit sparse to compromise for lower-end PCs, but because you need to be able to display and sync dozens upon dozens or even hundreds of characters at once. An MMO can't possibly look like Gears of War. Not on PCs, and a lot less so on current consoles.
    Edited by 1 at 09/10/09 @ 16:41

  • miiiguel #20 2 years ago

    I would probably play more MMOs if they were available on consoles, sitting at a PC/desk really puts me off PC gaming these days

    Me too, I'd love to see a "living room friendly" MMO.

  • Shikasama #21 2 years ago

    The ironic thing is, if you wanted to play an MMO on a console you would have to play with a keyboard and mouse to use the chat funciton in a decent manner.

  • ant72 #22 2 years ago

    Sony are completely on the money with Home of course. Cough. Splut :o/

  • mkreku #23 2 years ago

    Unless you use the voice chat function that at least Xbox Live supports very well..

  • kangarootoo #24 2 years ago

    @Shikasama

    Voice chat surely?

  • Drakron #25 2 years ago

    Voice chat works but its limited on how it should be used, since I played WoW I think that I can say that Lag Forge with voice chat would be "audio hell".

    I do not think MMO works in consoles, after all they have been attempts of doing and none really worked.
    Edited by 1 at 11/10/09 @ 04:28

  • makeamazing #26 2 years ago

    I am not convinced of MMO on consoles, certainly for people like me who have the console in the living room, if i had it on my office desk then perhaps.

    BUT.. if i was Sony or MS at this point, I would certainly try to understand MMOs and get STO as a console exclusive *(still with normal pc release mind)... Dont think it would be that expensive or costly for them to get it.

  • Pirotic #27 2 years ago

    I think they know all too well about MMO's, that most of them get green-lit by telling investors it'll be the next WoW and ends up getting shelved after 18 months.

  • Shikasama #28 2 years ago

    kangarootoo

    Oh aye. When I game I want to hear constant shouts of 'LFG HGTY 1M Needed' in my ear.

    Voice chat is for friends. Before they are friends they are strangers. If I wanted strangers in my living room I'd leave my door open.

  • shotgun44 #29 2 years ago

    @ lord

    lord of the gays. Hehehehe

  • hiddenranbir #30 2 years ago

    But MS surely must understand! Look at all those MMOs on the Microsoft Windows console!

  • freakzilla #31 2 years ago

    Sony probably doesn't even want the cryptic games, they've got their own games lined up for release. (no need for the extra competition)
    Edited by 1 at 10/10/09 @ 01:04

  • Emmit_Assassin #32 2 years ago

    When he says they (MS, Sony) don't understand the business side what he's actually saying is that they don't want to miss out on too much money. The publishers and developers get the monthly fee's, not MS or Sony. Sure, they get their share, but it's all of it they want, so to give up all that revenue to a third party must be the problem. If they can get an in-house dev to do it, and publish themselves, then they can grab a bigger cut.
    I mean, come on, MS don't understand about networking? The people that invented it don't know how to do it?

  • metallicorphan #33 2 years ago

    i was with FFXI for 2 years on the 360,loved it and that was after i gave up on it after 3 months on the PC

    and FFXI isn't the sole MMO on the 360,there is also Phantasy star universe

  • BaggyAnt #34 2 years ago

    Considering SOE are developing 3 MMO's for the console right now (Free Realms, DCU and The Agency), I think they get it...

  • AphoticCosmos #35 2 years ago

    CCP seems to have enough faith in both consoles to want to make a ground-breaking MMOFPS on them, I think that to write both companies off as not understanding console MMOs is a little silly.

  • kangarootoo #36 2 years ago

    @Shikasama

    Points well made.

  • jefranklin18 #37 2 years ago

    @Emmit_Assassin

    Suggest you read http://en.wikipedi a.org/wiki/TCPIP to swat up on history of TCP/IP, which is the basis for most network traffic nowadays.

    Microsoft did not "invent networking", at best you could say they came up with the concept of Live but that is dependent on existing technologies, nothing particularly new.

    Also regarding your comments on revenue, Sony (and I suspect Microsoft) publish third party games via online and they will receive a percentage of the revenues. I am sure that if someone comes to them and says "I want to publish a Coronation Street MMO on your network", they will quite happily take a percentage of the revenue for doing so.