Miyamoto says fun is future

By Robert Purchese Published 14 August, 2007

Dismisses difficult games.

Legendary Nintendo designer Shigeru Miyamoto has said the future will be about fun games rather than difficult ones.

But that's not to say there won't be anything for a more hardcore audience to enjoy, because apparently the two audiences have more in common than we think.

"While there are indeed games designed for core and casual markets, core users are also enjoying casual gaming," Miyamoto told Japanese magazine Famitsu (translated by Next-Gen.biz). "It is very hard to tune the difficulty just for the core market."

"Even for us, we would still have difficulty finding the right balance. But I think the future is games that are not difficult and yet very fun to play."

A key example of this is Super Mario Galaxy, which according to Miyamoto is designed to be entertaining even if you only have a brief amount of time to spare.

"There is this concept I always focus on, which is you have to feel the fun of a game by only trying it - and that concerns Super Mario Galaxy, of course," continued Miyamoto. "It is very important that the full fun of the game is being felt in the first stage: 1-1."

Games for Nintendo platforms as well as the hardware itself have dominated charts around the world frequently. The big idea of producing games to appeal to people outside of a core gaming demographic seems to be paying dividends.

Super Mario Galaxy will be released across Europe on 30th November. Head over to our Gamepage to find out more.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (99) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Aretak #1 5 years ago

    So my dog will be able to complete SMG then? Wonderful.

  • skillian #2 5 years ago

    Agreed, challenge is over-rated. Why does every game feel the need to put your (virtual) life in constant peril? Just let me have fun.

  • Triggerhappytel #3 5 years ago

    @ greggywocky

    Yeah, but ditto if it's too hard. Devil May Cry 1 or 3 are about my limit; if a game's much harder than that I can't be bothered to trek through it.
    Edited by 1 at 14/08/07 @ 16:27

  • Blerk #4 5 years ago

    Soon Nintendo games will just play themselves while you watch.

  • spliffhead #5 5 years ago

    Easy games = less dev time = more cash

    Are they building houses from the stuff now?

  • Ceatlan #6 5 years ago

    I'm definitely on Miyamotos side here, fun is definitely where it is at. The trick is to make the gamer feel like they are doing difficult things and facing a challenge, without actually ever making them feel like the game is difficult. Difficult and challenging are 2 very different things, difficult is very easy to achieve, challenging without being difficulty is very hard to do, and is what separates the best games from the rest.
    Edited by 1 at 14/08/07 @ 16:34

  • myiagros #7 5 years ago

    I like my games to be hard but fair.

    If a game is to easy, or it feels like its cheating me, then it is no fun at all.

    I also can't stand games which make you play thorugh huge chunks again because of bad checkpointing, lack of save points ect. Once i've beeten an challenging section i shouldn't be forced into beating it again because of another tough section up ahead.

  • Fernando #8 5 years ago

    Soon Nintendo games will just play themselves while you watch.


    Wii2 to have one button controllers confirmed!

  • Tonka #9 5 years ago

    Fun? Who plays games to have FUN! Hahaha. What a moron.

  • thedaveeyres #10 5 years ago

    He's right you know... :)

  • rashes #11 5 years ago

    I don;t have the time/patience to try the same part of a game over and over again (that's why I didn't like Devil May Cry) but I do find it funny that the makers of New Super Mario Bros. are preaching about hard games.

    If I read in a review that something is bitch hard (e.g. Ninja Gaiden), I won't buy it.

    Something like The Darkness on Medium was close... perhaps a little harder than that.

  • gamingdave #12 5 years ago

    "Easy games = less dev time = more cash"

    What a load of rubbish. Good games, with good levels are the hardest part of game design. It takes a lot of skill to create levels for games that are simple an intuative for the beginner, yet have challenge and depth for those that wish to master them.

  • aldo_14 #13 5 years ago

    Surely there's no argument that games should first and foremost be entertainment, though?

  • Tonka #14 5 years ago

    Whooohaaa hahahaha. That guy is so wrong.
    Soon all games will be fun if Nintendo can have their evil ways unhindered.

    Plays Big Riggers agin just to support the true c0r3 side of gaming.

  • rashes #15 5 years ago

    you need a certain amount of risk to get the risk/reward balance that fun gameplay involves.
    If ridiculously easy was fun .. wouldn;t everyone love Pirates of the Carribean?

  • Wayne #16 5 years ago

    I keep seeing this 30th November date. Is that confirmed?

  • Carrybagma #17 5 years ago

    Slow brain death for the win.

    Nintendo have already done 'fun and 'easy' games - it's the reason why so many of their old fans went off and bought Playstations and Xboxes. Still, the new 'non-gamers' will have plenty to be happy about.

    Look! I put the square peg in the square hole while balancing on my wobble-board! Nintendo is so much fun!

  • gmmonkey #18 5 years ago

    How about a compromise? Fun and challenging. Rather than boring and hard? Oh wait, that's what any sensible game developers have been trying to do since they were trying to make games out punch cards.

  • rashes #19 5 years ago

    @gmmonkey

    Yeah.. this is such a non-item. Must be a slow news day.
    Need an article that'll kick off a 300 post grudge match.

  • rock27gr #20 5 years ago

    @ Rashes

    I too found Devil May Cry too difficult/fiddly.

    But NSMB muct be one of the easiest Mario games out there!

  • Genji #21 5 years ago

    "Yeah.. this is such a non-item. Must be a slow news day.
    Need an article that'll kick off a 300 post grudge match."

    I think this might do it. People like to go on and on about how Nintendo is ruining gaming now.

  • Tonka #22 5 years ago

    HAHAHAHA

    You losers can play your fun games. Just don't expect me to join in.
    Ohhh look at me. I'm having fun

    lame

  • rashes #23 5 years ago

    @rock27gr

    Its the first one I've played. Just pick it up on my Girlfriends DS every so often.
    Its fine for the 1st two thirds and I really enjoy it.... just some of the final worlds are hair-pullingly frustrating for me.

  • ZeroAX #24 5 years ago

    depends on the genre for me. i love a hard 2d paltformer. i hate a hard strategy title (which are all zerg fests anyway) (except advance wars but that rocked pc rts who's difficulty is based on the pc knowing where you are and being able to prosses and act many things at one time while you can only 1 is not fair)
    Edited by 1 at 14/08/07 @ 16:56

  • Thornhillboy #25 5 years ago

    I used to be on the side of difficulty, but recently fun has been coming first.

    For example, Okami was a brilliant game, and I enjoyed it a lot more than Zelda:Twilight Princess. However, at no point during Okami was I really really stuck, to the degree that a walkthrough would be required. It was just fun throughout.

  • JetSetWilly #26 5 years ago

    Soon Nintendo games will just play themselves while you watch.

    More RPGS for Nintendo platforms, confirmed :p

  • rashes #27 5 years ago

    @Thornhillboy

    "I used to be on the side of difficulty, but recently fun has been coming first. "

    That's old age for you.

  • bushwod #28 5 years ago

    I think, with the size games are now, it needs to be more fun then hard.

    The only 'hard' game I can think of that I like is Geometry Wars, and that's because it only takes a few minutes to play.

  • Raya #29 5 years ago

    I design games and it's obviously very easy to make games hard. Tis really difficult to get the balance right - progression and playability. Make it too hard and most will get frustrated and give up, make it too easy and the player gets bored. More to do and more content helps (rubbish to say easy games have less dev time) but there has to be some tension in there!

    If you ever played D&D, the best games were in the hands of a dungeon master that guided you, made you feel in danger - not one that tried to kill you - same with games ;-)

  • Gavvie #30 5 years ago

    Is it just me, or have Eurogamer gone and revealed Galaxy's European release date, because nobody else has a date listed for it.

  • JP #31 5 years ago

    "Easy games = less dev time = more cash"

    Spliffhead, you couldn't be more wrong. It's just as easy to give an enemy 500000 HP than it is to give it 2 HP. It takes real dev time and know-how to find the perfect middle ground.

  • Triggerhappytel #32 5 years ago

    @ Genji - "I think this might do it. People like to go on and on about how Nintendo is ruining gaming now."

    I think that!

    The bunch of wankers are favouring dribbling morons over real gamers!

    @ Thornhillboy

    I agree, Okami was awesome but ultimately I felt a little more challenge would have definitely been a good thing.

  • nickthegun #33 5 years ago

    Why the hell are 'tough' and 'fun' mutually exclusive?

    Its like the myth that a game can either have good graphics or good gameplay. Its just a load of bollocks.

    Fucking 'fun'.....its just one of those wanky buzzwords that people are starting to bandy around like they are going out of fashion. What does it even mean in this context?

  • JetSetWilly #34 5 years ago

    I want to know the carbon-footprint of this here "fun" before I'm in.

  • sharpfish #35 5 years ago

    I admit these days I can't stand games that are frustratingly difficult, I feel like I've been around games too long to put up with abitrary forced tasks just to elongate a games play time. I see exactly what Siggsy is saying, and i've felt it in the past with a lot of his games (games that DID have a good challenge too).

  • The-Bodybuilder #36 5 years ago

    The only "difficult" game I've loved in the last 10 years was ninja gaiden (on very hard).

    I just do not have the patience for overly-difficult games anymore.

  • sickpuppysoftware #37 5 years ago

    Shigeru prefers the town bike to the classy woman that doesn't put out on the first date.

    You heard it here first!

  • jonsaan #38 5 years ago

    I think. Easy to learn, difficult to master is what all games should aim for. The best NIntendo games have always achieved that. WiiSports is probably a pretty good example of that too, so hopefully Miyamoto isn;t losing the plot, because he's always done what he is talking about anyway if you ask me.

  • evild_edd #39 5 years ago

    I enjoy the sense of achievement that comes from completing/mastering a difficult game - Ninja Gaiden; CoD 2 on max difficulty; a Pro Evo title on 6 stars...

    For me, easy games are like sandbox titles... fun for 5 minutes, but ultimately lacklustre and underwhelming. Looking at Nintendos recent and upcomming titles, I can see how easy games fit in perfectly with their target audience and ideals!!! :D

    Saying games should be easy and fun all the time is like saying football is only enjoyable if your team wins all the time! If you think that, go an support United or f*cking Chelski (you glory seeking c*nts) - the rest of us understand that more enjoyment is ultimately had from taking the rough with the smooth.

  • Gavvie #40 5 years ago

    Fun to me doesn't not equal easy. Easy equals mindless fun, and I don't think that's what Miyamoto has in mind.

    He's always looking for new ways to entertain people, and make them have fun and enjoy his products. The last thing he'll do is release a Mario-lite or Zelda-lite, just for the sake of it appealing to everybody.

  • Carrybagma #41 5 years ago

    @raya: Yes. For example the difference between legendary on Halo and that of Halo2. Or so, I've read. :o)

    I'm hoping (like someone has already said) that this is just a nothing statement that indicates nothing of concequence.

  • Tim #42 5 years ago

    Reading these comments brings a line from 'The Sure Thing' irresistibly to mind:

    "Look at these people! They probably think they're having fun!"

  • messiahtj #43 5 years ago

    Miyamoto????? Nintendo???? Mario´s games???? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZ........i prefer 1 million times, ninja gainden sigma, bioshock, mass effect, gta 4, gt 5, not little games with gay fountainers in it. Miyamoto and mario SUXXXXXX

  • kangarootoo #44 5 years ago

    I find it bizarre that he would suggest the two are even measured on the same scale. Maybe its a translation issue surrounding the exact meaning of "fun" in this context.

    If a game is too easy, it may not be fun. If a game is too hard it may not be fun. Dofficulty and challenge are just part of the larger toolset that can make a game fun to play, its certainly not a case of one of the other.

    @spliffhead

    "Easy games = less dev time = more cash"

    Not sure where you got that idea from. Difficulty balancing is part of the dev cycle, and things almost always turn out harder than expected once moved from "paper" intpo the build. So skimping on balancing almost always ends up in a game being too tough.

  • DUFFKING #45 5 years ago

    Ok Miyamoto, I'll be over here playing Ninja Gaiden and having great fun.

  • alexg #46 5 years ago

    Wait, wait, wait - hold on a second.

    30th November? Europe??

    Seriously???

  • smelly #47 5 years ago

    Well personally, I play games for fun and entertainment. And not to just watch pretty pixels fly by while i point my cursor at the screen and "shoot" a bad guy for the 1 millionth time.

    So i agree with him.

  • Redeye #48 5 years ago

    I don't necessarily agree 100% with Shigsy's statement, but some of you lot make me wonder...what the hell do you play games *for*? To give yourselves a hard time? Or for entertainment? If you're enjoying yourselves while you're playing, you're having FUN, regardless.

    QED.

  • Steroyd #49 5 years ago

    Okay so the challenging games I've bought and played aren't fun?

    That's news to me.

    Thank god I'm not one of those buggers that notices weak textures or whatever those people see that I don't.

  • Zomoniac #50 5 years ago

    Oh look, an old games developer declaring his method is right and everybody else is completely wrong and has no idea what they're doing. At times like this I miss Yu Suzuki, seemingly the only great developer who knows how to keep their mouth shut. Wii Sports isn't fun in single player because it's so damn easy. Prior to that, the last 'fun' original title he did was Pikmin. He should try playing Motorstorm, which is simultaneously painfully fun yet ridiculously difficult.

  • Rash' #51 5 years ago

    Ceatlan: "I'm definitely on Miyamotos side here, fun is definitely where it is at. The trick is to make the gamer feel like they are doing difficult things and facing a challenge, without actually ever making them feel like the game is difficult. Difficult and challenging are 2 very different things, difficult is very easy to achieve, challenging without being difficulty is very hard to do, and is what separates the best games from the rest."

    +1

  • OrangeGoblin #52 5 years ago

    Didn't I recently read that Miyamoto went back to SMG to make it MORE difficult?

  • Aria #53 5 years ago

    "But that's not to say there won't be anything for a more hardcore audience to enjoy."
    It doesn't seem like that'll happen anymore...
    It seems like from now on, almost all the games published by Nintendo are going to be like ‘Cooking Mama’ and ‘Princess Peach and the gang’ crap.
    Well... I think I'd rather stick to ‘difficult’ games.
    And who said difficult games aren't fun? When playing a more hardcore game, you progress by solving more difficult problems and that gives you a sense of achievement and is good for your brain. Now some people's brains can't handle that. Fine! They can stick to ‘Pony Friends’ and if they can smell their brains rotting, go and play some ‘Brain Training’. But not everyone enjoys doing that and I really think to be fair and indeed to survive in this industry, videogames publishers should have something for everyone.

  • TRUTH #54 5 years ago

    If games are to easy then the temptation is lost and no thought or form of strategy is needed to complete the game. If the game is difficult it will take more planning, strategy, and thought to complete. You'll also end up with a better feeling of achievement.

  • smelly #55 5 years ago

    Oh come off it people!!!

    Games are easier now than they have ever been!

    Go back and play an 8-bit spectrum game, i owned hundreds of them, but can count the ones i completed on one hand. Comparing that to every playstation game i've owned....

    This isnt even anything new anyhows. To get to the ending of mario 64 - it was easy fun. To complete it 100% is a challenge.

    That's what he's promoting, nothing more, nothing less.

    Besides, i'd rather have fun playing a game, and sit back at the end and go.. oooh.. i enjoyed that (see any gta game). Than play something like metroid prime, where i gave up on ones of the bosses as it was so hard i wasnt having fun.

  • kangarootoo #56 5 years ago

    I'll say it again. The two are simply not on the same level of the pyramid, and for sure they are not mutually exclusive. A game can fail to be fun because it is too difficult, or too easy. Challenge is just one thing that can serve fun, but it has to be done in the service of fun rather than for its own sake.

    "Games are easier now than they have ever been!"

    Agreed. And thats a good thing. Some modern games are hard, and fun because of it. But a lot of old games just rock hard and suffered as a result (maybe not back then, because we had little to compare to).

  • PlugMonkey #57 5 years ago

    Oh for god's sake, some of the people on here are pathetic. Where does he say that difficult games can't be fun? He doesn't! He says he thinks the future is in games everyone can enjoy. Although, to be fair, he's probably only saying that as Nintendo is built on the idea of making great games that everyone can enjoy.

    Sound the alarms!

    I'm guessing he means stuff like Guitar Hero, which I really like, and so does my girlfriend, and so does her mum. It's based around the really fun experience of playing a musical instrument, which can be as easy or as hard as you like. And frankly, the really hard songs just piss me off and aren't nearly as much fun as the slightly easier and cooler sounding songs.

    Or like Pokemon. Deep enough for me to play it, easy enough for a four year old to get. Or like every zelda ever made. Engaging, exciting but you don't need the reflexes of a cat to get past the first dungeon. Nintendo making games for the whole family? Well fuck me, that's news!

  • FooAtari #58 5 years ago

    Surely fun is subjective. And surely not every game should be made for everyone?

    For example I like my racing games to be as realistic as possible. I enjoy the challenging of mastering a car and track, getting my lines perfect and shaving tenths off my lap time. Something like Grand Prix Legends. Now that game is difficult and most people probably wont enjoy it, but does that mean it should be made easier or not be made at all? No, it simply means that those who dont like it go and find something else to play, there is plnety choice.

    I was totally hopeless at Ninja Gaiden, found it way to hard. But I wouldnt want them to change the difficulty for my benefit, it wouldnt be Ninja Gaiden other wise and I know people that loved the challenge of mastering it. I didnt like it, fiar enough I traded it and got something else.

    There needs to be games thats are easy, games that are easy to pick up but difficult to master and games that are just bloody hard etc etc, as different people have different tastes. I hope the future doesnt mean games that are not difficult, It depends on the person what they find to be fun, and I dont think anyone can claim to make a game that is fun for everyone, it isnt possible. The future is fun, of course it is, but fun is different for everyone.

  • GingerNathan #59 5 years ago

    Can't believe some of you think you know better then Miyamoto in what it takes to make a good game that appeals to to a large audience, having said that I'm sure he won't lose much sleep over it when you're on the way to your next Burger King shift!I'm guessing some of you work their or in similar jobs on the basis that you keep on harping on about you not wanting easy games, yet in all the quotes I couldn't find the word 'easy'. He's just saying that it's better to make a game which appeals to the core audience, yet is enjoyable by the casual. That doesn't mean easy, just playable.


    "Ninja Gaiden; CoD 2 on max difficulty; a Pro Evo title on 6 stars... "
    I personally find NG to be fairly easy. COD2 on the hardest setting is also easy, the check points are so generous that it's a case of perseverance rather then skill. PE6, you've got me there, yet another iteration of the same game stopped me playing through all the harder setting due to boredom kicking in. But that's the point, we're all different with different skill levels (at different genres for that matter as well), at a certain point everybody will get to a stage where the difficulty is so hard that the game no longer becomes fun, unless of course I'm in a comments section surrounded my uber gaming ninjas who can play Geometry Wars for an infinite amount of time.

    "........i prefer 1 million times, ninja gainden sigma, bioshock, mass effect, gta 4, gt 5,"
    Congratulations, you prefer games that aren't even out yet (with the exception of NGS) which are at this moment in time are of unknown quality.


    "This isnt even anything new anyhows. To get to the ending of mario 64 - it was easy fun. To complete it 100% is a challenge.
    "
    Exactly, 100 coins on Rainbow ride was hard as nails. SM64 could be played by anybody and had levels of difficulty to suite people of all skill and experience.

  • Aria #60 5 years ago

    And why do some people on here think they have to be rude towards others in order to score a point? I don't see why you're so angry all of a sudden Monkey.

    "Oh for god's sake, some of the people on here are pathetic. Where does he say that difficult games can't be fun? He doesn't!"

    If you're referring to what I said earlier, well I must say I never said HE said that. I was talking about what many people on here are directly saying or implying.

    "He says he thinks the future is in games everyone can enjoy."

    Well I would be very optimistic if I said there's a 1/10 chance that would happen. There are gamers of various age groups, cultures and backgrounds; therefore they have different expectations, views and budgets.
    There should be different games for different gamers. One game cannot please all people.

  • tobsen #61 5 years ago

    Note to Miyamoto and to Nintendo: Me dismisses formulaic games. Especially if they rehash 16-bit gameplay archetypes to death. This includes the latest Zeldas, and the latest Super Marios (Paper Mario explicitely excluded). Thanks for listening!

  • dustrat #62 5 years ago

    The Metroid games have always been both fun and challenging, in my opinion anyway.

  • Walshicus #63 5 years ago

    Fuck you Miyamoto. I'm going to go play Bioshock on hard.

  • WiseNail #64 5 years ago

    I think Miyamoto is wrong on this one, the future is choice. Every game should have a sliding difficulty scale (like Oblivion), so that you can set it to whatever difficulty suits you.

    Nintendo games generally seem to be stuck in the dark ages, you either get the likes of Metroid Prime 2 (pretty hard) or Twilight Princess (too easy), why not let the gamer choose how much challenge they want?

  • Kengro #65 5 years ago

    If he's on the money with this utter bullshi* i'll stop playing games...
    I'm done with Nintendo, i'll get a Ps3 to go with my 360.
    Nintendo can stick theyr "casual" games where the sun never shines...
    Forza 2 with no aids and hard AI is the most fun i've had in a long time. It was hellish hard but great fun
    Edited by 1 at 14/08/07 @ 20:44

  • TimiW #66 5 years ago

    The more games that have difficulty settings, the better.

    For example, I enjoyed Halo 2 coop a lot more on the hardest difficulty, as the cavalier attitude of pure run and gunning on normal wouldn't work. But it was great to play through it on normal first, without getting too held up.

    Zelda four swords on the cube was good fun with 4 people, but a more challenging mode would have been good fun to play through afterwards (although the amount of team damage that went on in normal mode would say perhaps this wouldn't be a good idea!).

    Resi 4 got extra play throughs on the harder difficulties (and with the infinite launcher!).

    In short, let the punters choose how they want to play the game - just give them the option to do so. =)

  • CitizenGeek #67 5 years ago

    Oh, you gotta love Nintendo!

  • RexRunti #68 5 years ago

    How fun a game is doesn't come down to difficulty. How challenging a game is can have a (in my opinion huge) effect on how fun a game is. If the game is too easy you get bored too hard you get frustrated. Sliding AI and good difficulty curves are just one way of creating the perfect "easy to pick up, difficult to master" scenario, but to be honest the game that does the best is probably Soul Calibur as the game and controls are pretty intuitive but getting to competition level is a real slog. Bit like football really.

    Incidently I have noticed an annoying trend in games that are "easy to pick up" but think that the way to add a challenge for the hardcore is to go on a bloody easter egg hunt for 5000 rare coins which you will only ever know where they all are if you get a walkthrough from somewhere. Making me play the same piss easy level 14 times is a challenge of patience not skill, completing the same level with ultra hard AI and extra mission requirements is another matter. (That said I' not that keen on being forced to play a game on brain-made-from-wet-sponge difficulty just so I can make it fun.)

  • Machetazo #69 5 years ago

    Nintendo dislikes anything it doesn't make itself. Surprised?

  • WJF #70 5 years ago

    Games should be about 'Gameplay'




    Again.

  • smelly #71 5 years ago

    @tobsen.. then obviously by default you dont dismiss mario.. as it's one of the least fomrulaic games out there..

    As you'd know if you'd played any of them...

  • Twincoil #72 5 years ago

    "Fun" games are as such for but a brief period of time.

    "Challenging" games require a longer and more spiritualy rewarding path to be trodden.

    As if someone descended from Samurai doesn't 'get' that. Westernisation FTL.
    Edited by 1 at 14/08/07 @ 23:27

  • Twincoil #73 5 years ago

    @smelly

    "fomrulaic"

    Is this what happens to peoples minds when they play too many 'easy' Nintendo games?

  • dredd97 #74 5 years ago

    Miyamoto can be wrong sometimes you know, he's not perfect, and somtimes he's not right... and this time he's not right, all he's preaching here is that nintendo will make no more hardcore games because the soccer moms won't buy them... expect more cooking mama and animal crossing from the big n...

  • GingerNathan #75 5 years ago

    "all he's preaching here is that nintendo will make no more hardcore games because the soccer moms won't buy them"

    I'll tell you what, why don't you ignore the quotes from him and just make up what you think you want him to say! That's a massive jump from what he said to "no more Hardcore (I can't stand that word) games", he never said that all Nintendo are going to make are casual games, and he never said Nintendo are going to make all of their game 'easy' for their new casual audience. A lot of you either can't read or just enjoy trolling.

  • skx #76 5 years ago


    don't forget folks, this is the reason why you all love movies...

  • smelly #77 5 years ago

    I think if some of you guys spent more time having fun playing games, you'd spend less time on forums moaning about them.

  • smelly #78 5 years ago

    Besides.. If anyone has ever been "pro" hard/challenging/hardcore games.. its miyamoto.

    Most people say they didnt like sunshine because it was too hard.

    if anything nintendo's games have gotten easier over the years to conform with the "playstation" generation of "hardcore" gamers who want easier games, and want to complete every game in their collection.

    Remember, it is possible to have fun on a game and never complete it, or indeed - it doesnt even need to end...

    Geometry wars par instance? Do you play that for fun? Or do you play it to complete it?

    Personally anyone who's arguing here that games shouldnt be fun.. well i pitty them, and i feel sorry for their choices in games personally.. But if that's what floats their boats - thats up to them.. But they ARE in the minority.. The rest of us play for fun.

    (thus the word "play" and indeed "game";)

  • FooAtari #79 5 years ago

    @ Knegro
    "Forza 2 with no aids and hard AI is the most fun i've had in a long time. It was hellish hard but great fun"

    Hard? You want to pick up a real racing sim ;-)

  • InternetRed #80 5 years ago

    I like fun, and i've played games where it's a breeze from start to end, but the game's feel and cinematic-like sequences carried it through...

    But most games, the fun is actually getting through an area that you was stuck on. Like, in Call of Duty 2, in the grain silo with the sniper rifle. Oh gods that was tough on Veteran mode! But when it was done, i can say that i was so damn proud of myself (yeah yeah, proud of playing a game ;P).

    I think the two need each other. We need games that are one short yet blisteringly fun ride through, and ones that make us scream at the TV. it balances out

  • mkreku #81 5 years ago

    Now this is a weird article. Fun for me is conquering a seemingly impossible goal, developing my weak newbie from the grounds up until he is ready to take on the final boss. I want to be challenged, I want to feel the resistance, or else the goal won't be worth anything. The challenge IS the fun!

    Of course, ArmA had a bit too much of the "fun" for me..

  • ChocNut #82 5 years ago

    Go Miyamoto. I dont have the freaking time to play the same level or boss over 50 times. i just wanna play through the game in the limited gaming time i have these days.
    I understand people want harder game but thats what HARD mode is for. They should be easier by default with HARD increasing the enemy AI and damage etc.

    i dont have time

  • Mindstorm #83 5 years ago

    How can you even think to make such a general statement about something as subjective as "fun". This guy (like all the other guys in the business) is just pushing his own shit "fun is MY idea of fun, and you shut up!".

  • EmiliasHorse #84 5 years ago

    I just checked the Oxford dictionary for the word "fun". I was shocked to see the pronunciation as Nin-Ten-DOH!

  • Razz #85 5 years ago

    I'm definitely on Miyamotos side here, fun is definitely where it is at. The trick is to make the gamer feel like they are doing difficult things and facing a challenge, without actually ever making them feel like the game is difficult. Difficult and challenging are 2 very different things, difficult is very easy to achieve, challenging without being difficulty is very hard to do, and is what separates the best games from the rest.

  • SEVQA #86 5 years ago

    I’ve never been a massive fan of Nintendo games, though always respected their heritage as one of the founders of our industry. Until recently, due to Miyamoto comments and statements over the past 12 or so months have just been what I call stupid.

    In true Eurogamer fashion:

    I hope mushrooms of every sort infest his body and then gets raped by a giant crocodile.
    Edited by 1 at 15/08/07 @ 10:12

  • EmiliasHorse #87 5 years ago

    @SEVQA Firm but fair.

  • Fairlane #88 5 years ago

    Is he saying that fun can not be challanging...... in that case - I disagree

  • aabyssx #89 5 years ago

    In most cases I like games that are not that challenging and focus on story or new ideas, no frustraion, just fun to play.

    But somehow I value Devil May Cry, God Hand or Ninja Gaiden much much more. I also come back to theese hard and deep games from time to time.

  • alexg #90 5 years ago

    Ooh, so you like it hard and deep?

    Anyways is this November 30th release date actually confirmed for Europe? Europe, like? Really?

  • Dermoth #91 5 years ago

    Excellent. Hopefully Nintendo will take over the world, and return gaming to what it used to be.

    You lot are like prog rock fans. It's not worth listening to if it ain't a concept triple album about orcs or spaceships, and as far as you're concerned, people who play games for *fun* are as bad as thirteen year old girls screaming at the Bay City Rollers.

    I hope Miyamoto succeeds, and all you beardy flare-wearing spods end up in the tip. Nintendo = Punk Rock, and you're all going down, hippies.

  • Sebo #92 5 years ago

    So is Miyamoto saying no 8-red coin levels in Mario Galaxy?? Hoorah, that would be brilliant. That is the most non-fun in gaming. There was a similar bit in Twilight Princess. Note to Nintendo, I don't like searching.

    Fun is totally subjective. I totally agree with him if he's saying developers should aim for something that, at the most basic level, everyone can find an interest in. I don't take his quotes to mean that he wants to remove challenge from games.

    There's a very fine line between challenge and difficult. I never completed Metroid Prime cus it was just too hard and monotonous.

    I do reckon some gamers just want to punish themselves, that I find weird.

  • drunkymonkey #93 5 years ago

    I find it surprising that games weren't fun before the Wii. I thought I played games because they were fun. The fact that I only have an N64 and GBC from Nintendo makes me wonder if I've had any fun with gaming systems other than those two.

    It's also always nice to be dictated what fun is, as if we didn't know.

  • Sebo #94 5 years ago

    Right, I've read his quote again to make sure I wasn't missing anything. The flannel eurogamer has put around this has clouded it somewhat and there's definitely things that can be misinterpreted if you don't pay close attention.

    I reckon what Miyamoto means by "fun" is something that is instantly accessible and keeps its charm throughout. I think he wants intuitive stuff, not stuff that is hard to learn.

    With that I agree. You need an instant hook in a game.
    Edited by 1 at 15/08/07 @ 14:33

  • Lov3 #95 5 years ago

    "At times like this I miss Yu Suzuki, seemingly the only great developer who knows how to keep their mouth shut."

    I love Yu Suzuki, but the amount of crap that came out of his mouth about Shenmue and FREE was pretty amazing. However I do miss him - his philosophy was the exact opposite of this, which is providing a game that players would have to strive and better themselves to complete, and reaction speed and timing ruled the roost. Fun through challenge. Yep, I do miss him :(.

  • knocker #96 5 years ago

    @Sebo

    thats how I read it as well - but it's hard to tell that from the Eurogamer fluff. My intended response kept coming back to the "seconds to learn, lifetime to master" cliche.

  • carrotcake #97 5 years ago

    Okay, I think what he means is, to make games more accessible they shouldn't require you to be very skilled to get anything out of them. A game should make you smile rather than bring frustration and anger and shouting. A game should allow you to make some kind of progression even if you aren't playing well. A lot of people don't play games because they just aren't very good at them and don't have the time to put in practice - they won't be able to get past level 1. Miyamoto might be saying that they should make games that are enjoyable to everyone, that don't rely on insane difficulty to get your concentration. You monkeys.

  • VMerken #98 5 years ago

    Free tips:
    * Finetuned the game to make it tick for your target consumer base? Let them play in the "Normal" setting which has the full quest and unlocks tons of stuff at completion.
    * Wanna make the hardcore crowd happy too? Add a "Veteran" setting, and a special reward for completing it.
    * Absolutely Everyone wants to have fun? Add a "Rookie" setting which ends the main quest a few chapters early to get casual players to give "Normal" a spin. Some unlockables are okay, but don't go overboard yet.

    Wait, this has been done already, and with success? Well I never.

    Oh, and "fun" (as observed the user)? If a game isn't "fun" (as observed by the user), why should the user bother playing it in the first place? I believe bottling "fun" (as observed by the user) and selling it in volume has always been a primary goal for the entertainment industry, of which the video game industry is a part of. And in that sense, not only is "fun" the future, it is also the past and the present.

  • smelly #99 5 years ago

    >I find it surprising that games weren't fun before the Wii.

    did he say that? no.