Marketing rules Wii, not quality - report

By Robert Purchese Published 17 June, 2009

"It's fools gold," say industry speakers.

World of Goo developer 2D Boy, Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter and an industry-leading developer all support Peter Moore's claims that review scores are not as important to the success of Wii games as enormous advertising budgets.

"A lot of these games that you think are the perfect game for Wii don't sell because companies don't have the money to market them," a high profile member of an industry-leading developer explained to Eurogamer. "Whereas Nintendo is spending gazillions of dollars marketing their games.

"It's fool's gold, the Wii. It looks great, but it's very hard to get money out of it. It's an empty mine for most software developers, including the big ones. It's Nintendo games that people buy on those platforms, and a few others.

"If you spend the money to go after the audience on Wii, it's pure risk," the source added.

There are notable examples of Wii games reviewing well but falling on deaf wallets - even Nintendo titles. Punch-Out!! still hasn't broken into the UK All-Formats top 40, and MadWorld, Okami and Boom Blox all quickly sunk without trace.

Peter Moore argued that Metacritic averages are "less critical" to the success of a Wii game than they are to PS3 or Xbox 360 titles; he said he can generate just as much interest for an EA Sports title from a well-placed advert on a website for a women's magazine.

"Peter is a wise man. I would never question anything he says, as I was taught to respect my elders," Michael Pachter told Eurogamer.

"I think that Metacritic scores are irrelevant for people who don't look at them - how's that for obvious? While there are many Wii owners who are hardcore and who care very much about scores, there are many - perhaps half - who are quite casual, and wouldn't know Metacritic if it fell on them.

"Clearly, somebody's buying Carnival Games, Jillian Michaels Fitness Ultimatum, etc.," he added. "A well positioned game with an interesting concept can sell well on the Wii regardless of review scores, and I think that is what Peter's talking about."

But not everyone has the luxury of bottomless banks. 2D Boy, developer of World of Goo, explains that from an indie perspective, Metacritic scores matter "a lot".

"It sounds totally reasonable that reviews don't matter for AAA blockbusters and sports game franchises, just like reviews don't matter for Will Smith movies," 2D Boy co-founder Kyle Gabler told Eurogamer. "The audience already knows what they are going to get.

"But for indie guys like us, Metacritic and review scores matter a lot. In fact we link directly to them from our web site. So does Steam. It makes a lot of sense - potential players don't feel comfortable dishing out cash for some random unknown indie game without an aggregate thumbs-up from solid reviewers."

At least we're not out of a job just yet.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (56) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • MBar #1 3 years ago

    At least we're not out of a job just yet.

    They said "solid reviewers".

    lolpwned etc.

  • mega7ech #2 3 years ago

    "It's Nintendo games that people buy on those platforms, and a few others"

    As has always been the case with Nintendo consoles since the N64 days!

  • Anthony_UK #3 3 years ago

    Surely that's just stating the obvious?

    The Wii is a casual/mass market console, and I would say a huge part of it's audience people don't visit the likes of Eurogamer on a daily basis. In that case then, how else will people they know about these games? Especially with the Wii game market flooded with so much dross...

  • SG #4 3 years ago

    Same could be said of the PS1 too. Ah how I ine for tbe golen days of gaming when it was a hobbyist's hobby and games were all made for gamers and tended to sell based on mag review scores. Damn you casual gamers, damn you all. :(

  • MBar #5 3 years ago

    Casual game: Developed easily, review scores don't matter.
    Hardcore game: Developed thoroughily, review scores do matter.

    It's nice that whatever quality of game you put out, it has the chance to sell, but as before, if all you're developing is casual, cash-in, easy rubbish, expect the people that have been playing games for decades to tell you exactly how crap you are.

    Edit: The growing trend does seem to be that developing minigame collections etc. for the casual market is quick, easy and cost effective, leading to a growing reduction in actual quality of games. It's nice to see a developer say that people need to stop looking at the Wii as an easy route to free money.
    Edited by 1 at 17/06/09 @ 14:00

  • SliderNL #6 3 years ago

    Finally some sense, you indeed need a lot of money to get sales going on the Wii because of the Casual audience

    they don't buy a lot of games, are not actively looking for them, play a long time with their existing games, only read about them in mainstream media like television guides, newspapers for info. And buy them in classic stores, so packaging is very important.

  • Darren #7 3 years ago

    It seems to me that a Wii advert depicting a group of people (family and friends) laughing and waving the Wiimote around with a few splitsecond blink-and-you'll-miss-it snatches of the game in question is all that is needed to sell *ANY* game on that platform regardless of its quality. It isn't the video footage of the game that sells it to people, it's the fact that it is depicted as being fun to play and sociable.

    A very clever way of selling games really, which is the entire point of advertising granted, but it is grossly misleading IMO. Every single Nintendo game advert that I've seen has used this tactic. I sometimes think that if the adverts only consisted of mostly gameplay footage that those Wii games would sell a lot less copies.

  • Razorus #8 3 years ago

    So true, unfortunately. I feel like crying when I see rare good games on the Wii not doing well, and then all those atrocious mini-game compilations and exercise games being sold by the bucket-load.
    As much as I love Nintendo, they are very strongly to blame for this. In their crusade to attract the casual market, they have forgotten the hardcore gamers, and have lost their pride.
    All games released on Nintendo consoles have a golden logo on it called the Nintendo Seal of Quality. That used to mean something a long time ago, but it seems they're handing them out like nightclub leaflets now.

    As for Punch-Out, the only marketing I saw was the HMV launch with Joe Calzaghe which I attended plus a few TV ads. Madworld just came at the wrong time, when people have left their Wii's to gather dust on the shelf and Okami was never marketed properly....twice.

  • cyacomini #9 3 years ago

    Wii?

    What's a Wii?

  • Les #10 3 years ago

    "As much as I love Nintendo, they are very strongly to blame for this. In their crusade to attract the casual market, they have forgotten the hardcore gamers, and have lost their pride."

    I don't think their investors care much about that. Truth is hardcore gamers want the world but are not willing to pay for it. That's not really a good basis for a sustainable business as MS and Sony are now realising as well.

    As for the poor sales of 'proper' Wii games, again the hardcore are to blame. They are the intended audience and they don't buy the games because the Wii can't generate enough pixels for their taste.

  • Oh-Bollox #11 3 years ago

    "If you spend the money to go after the audience on Wii, it's pure risk," the source added.

    I thought developing for the Wii was low-risk. Who's lying?

    Marketing sells games on every platform, not reviews.

  • MBar #12 3 years ago

    All games released on Nintendo consoles have a golden logo on it called the Nintendo Seal of Quality. That used to mean something a long time ago, but it seems they're handing them out like nightclub leaflets now.

    These days it means "This games runs on a Nintendo console. Probably, anyway."

    From Wikipedia:

    The symbol remained unchanged until 2003 when "of Quality" was removed.

    Yep, sounds about right. :p

  • Darren #13 3 years ago

    @Razorus - I concur with what you wrote.

    I bought my first Wii game in almost a year this week: Klonoa. While it is no classic (it's a remake of an anicent PSone game) it's decent fun and was cheap. It reminded me of what I missed most about the Wii. Personally I'm over the waving the Wiimote like a loon for a laugh stage and just want more quality games like Zelda: Twilight Princess, Klonoa and Super Mario Galaxy. Sadly such games are few and far between. In fact, I think the Wii has fewer games that appeal to me than the GameCube did. It makes me sad that as I love or rather *did* love Nintendo's own games before they released casual crap like Wii Fit and Wii Music.

  • The-Bodybuilder #14 3 years ago

    >"just like reviews don't matter for Will Smith movies"

    AWW HELL N......
    Sorry, but the will smith bashing really is getting old now. They guy's a fantastic actor and has made some great movies (his portrayal of Ali, in the rubbish Ali is still ranked as one of the bests ever).

    As for this article and comments? Only fools will try and argue with it imo.

  • Domovoi #15 3 years ago

    Hey, was that a dig at Will Smith movies?

  • jaguarwong #16 3 years ago

    Fun fact: The Wii has more high quality exclusive games (and exclusive versions) than either of the HD machines.

    It's true.

    It's not the games that's the problem, it's the image of the machine - most consumers don't see it as a games console at all.

    Their loss - I play mine at least as much as my 360 and far more than my PS3.

  • The-Bodybuilder #17 3 years ago

    Although, it really is surprising that it's not a gold mine as many sites (EG included) claimed thw wii to be; minimum cost, maximum profit.

    It seems like, other than ninty, it's minimum costs, minimum reward; moderate costs minimum reward; maximum costs, still minimum reward.

  • cyber_nicco #18 3 years ago

    "Fun fact: The Wii has more high quality exclusive games (and exclusive versions) than either of the HD machines. "

    Hee hee...

  • Garulon #19 3 years ago

    "Their loss - I play mine at least as much as my 360 and far more than my PS3. "

    Why? Do you have learning difficulties?

  • Collymilad #20 3 years ago

    "Fun fact: The Wii has more high quality exclusive games (and exclusive versions) than either of the HD machines.

    It's true.

    It's not the games that's the problem, it's the image of the machine - most consumers don't see it as a games console at all.

    Their loss - I play mine at least as much as my 360 and far more than my PS3. "

    I'll have what you're smoking mate.

  • mega7ech #21 3 years ago

    @Les

    "Truth is hardcore gamers want the world but are not willing to pay for it."

    Untrue. I consider myself to be a gamers gamer and more often then not pay the extra for the limited or collectors editions of games I buy but they are games I know I will get a lot out of, ie proper games on the HD consoles, not waggle casual crap on Wii. The reason I wouldnt be willing to pay for something on the Wii is because I know that nearly all the games on that console would bore me after an hour or so, and so, imo, arent worth the asking price. Ive played many of the top selling Wii titles at mates houses and while for half an hours mess around they're ok, thats as far as they would hold my interest and thats why I wouldnt be willing to pay for it!

  • jaguarwong #22 3 years ago

    Fun fact: The word 'Wii' has unique properties as a message-board moron magnet.

    Grow up boys, it's about time no?

  • superdelphinus #23 3 years ago

    "So true, unfortunately. I feel like crying when I see rare good games on the Wii not doing well"

    perspective sale---------------------------->

  • Les #24 3 years ago

    "Although, it really is surprising that it's not a gold mine as many sites (EG included) claimed thw wii to be; minimum cost, maximum profit."

    It is a goldmine for Nintendo as we all know. 3rd party publishers have had a hard time cashing in on it though and TBH I think they're a bit too quick to lay of the blame. The Wii is different and it took them too long to appreciate that. First they thought that just putting shovelware on it would work but it didn't. Then, as Wii's success continued, they approached it like the consoles of old: creating games that the critics would like with the expectation that high review scores are high sales. The Wii however, has it's own public and requires it's own market approach. Just repeating what you've always done won't work.

  • Garulon #25 3 years ago

    "The Wii is different and it took them too long to appreciate that."

    Misspelled "Shit" there.

    "First they thought that just putting shovelware on it would work but it didn't."

    Ignoring massive sales of Jenna Whoever Fitness and Carnival Games there.

  • Les #26 3 years ago

    "But not everyone has the luxury of bottomless banks. 2D Boy, developer of World of Goo, explains that from an indie perspective, Metacritic scores matter "a lot"."

    The problem for Indie developers on the Wii is that the audience that they want to reach doesn't own a Wii as they are obsessed with gameplay and graphics. Or in most cases just graphics.

    Hardcore gamers are a niche but expect the gaming equivalent of the gaming equivalent of the Hollywood blockbuster tailored to their tastes. And those that do appreciate different gameplay (the gaming equivalent of the art house movie) still want it to have the Hollywood blockbuster production budget.

  • smelly #27 3 years ago

    Third party games just dont sell on the wii.

    .. And that's REALLY nothing to do with 99% of 3rd party games on the wii being shite... Honest...

  • smelly #28 3 years ago

    >Or in most cases just graphics.


    Oh.. dear... you sad sad sad sad child.

  • oerhoert #29 3 years ago

    "Marketing rules Wii, not quality"

    As has always been the most prevalent case in the game industry.

    Badly positioned software shouldn't sit in a corner complaining. They should take notice and do better next time. Okami didn't do well on PS2, so it would need some major shift in marketing or image to do well on the Wii.

    Carnival Games was perfectly positioned, referencing the funfairs everyone liked as a child, with concepts that were graspable immediately. EA Active Fitness or what-it's-called too, great positioning, the "red Wii Fit-clone" that has those stretch bands to differentiate it. It's not even clever, it's just working.

    How are people going to appreciate the concept of Boom Blox within the three seconds they look at the box in the shop, really? Anthropomorphized <em>blocks</em>, you say? I mean, really? That's your USP?

    No, I'm not going to feel bad that most game studios "do it wrong". That's their problem, not mine, and certainly not the Wii's.

    <em>"All games released on Nintendo consoles have a golden logo on it called the Nintendo Seal of Quality. That used to mean something a long time ago"</em>

    Did it? I've played some really, really craptacular games on the NES, so I'm not so sure if that was just another marketing trick from Nintendo, to be honest. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing the seal meant was that the game had been approved as stable and bug-free so that only "proper" software got released (as opposed to on the Atari of the time).
    Edited by 2 at 17/06/09 @ 15:32

  • smelly #30 3 years ago

    I do wish some of you guys who keep spouting the word "hardcore" in relation to the wii not being - would actually explain to me what "hardcore" is. Because to me:

    Halo 3 : mainstream
    gta 4 : mainstream
    mario galaxy : hardcore

  • Garulon #31 3 years ago

    No mechanism for downloadable demos doesn't exactly help though. Crackdown and Bioshock on the 360 did amazingly well simply through the buzz generated from excellent demos. Without even basic next-gen infrastructure like demos,

  • CallousB #32 3 years ago

    "a high profile member of an industry-leading developer "

    Hmm. So who is this developer then? I mean the source really should be expained a bit more..as a if it's a dev who only makes 360/PS3/PC games...then they are hardly an unbiased and credible source are they?

  • oerhoert #33 3 years ago

    The hardcore-mainstream dichotomy is largely useless if you ask me.

    <em>"hardly an unbiased and credible source are they"</em>

    No source is ever "unbiased".
    Edited by 1 at 17/06/09 @ 15:34

  • smelly #34 3 years ago

    @oerhört: Well said +1

    Anyone still thinking the "Seal of quality" meant something - go watch avgn on gametrailers.

    And i'm SURE (itchy chin) that hte ps2 never had shit games which sold well.

    The fact of the matter is with the wii - is that 3rd parties keep making shit for it, and when they make something reasonable they dont market it, and THEN they blame that it didnt sell on the machine - rather than their lacklusture efforts... Much to the amusement of the 360 fanboys that hang around threads like these.

  • jaguarwong #35 3 years ago

    @ Smelly

    The definition has changed the more mainstrem video games have become.

    Hardcore used to pertain to the unadulterated form of the medium - hardcore fans were the ones who'd beat Ikaruga not taking a hit, hardcore games were the ones that challenged the player on ever level.

    Now hardcore is used in a mixture of the meanings for 'fanatic' (when referring to people) and 'Explicit' (when referring to games).

  • Salaminizer #36 3 years ago

    A baby seal is killed every time someone list Okami as proof of third-party games not selling on the Wii.

  • penhalion #37 3 years ago

    And this is exactly what I've been saying for ages now (just check my post history when it comes to nintendo dev stuff). It's gamecube 101 all over again. 3rd parties can't make a dime on the blasted thing so sooner rather than later, they will desert the platform in droves. Then it's down to just Nintendo software and once that happens, the platform will go the way of the gamecube and simply stagnate.

    Nintendo don't release new titles frequently enough to fill a release calendar so people will simply forget they have the thing in the first place and move on to other stuff. Nintendo will then release their next console, which I have very little doubt is already wiaitng in the wings.

  • bigbadbeasty #38 3 years ago

    "A baby seal is killed every time someone list Okami as proof of third-party games not selling on the Wii"

    Ok, how about Ico then? Or Amplitude? Rez too? I don't think Shadow of the Colossus did that well either.

    It's always the same. The truly good games often seem to fail. What this analyst is saying applies to all consoles over the last 10 years.

  • kangarootoo #39 3 years ago

    @smelly

    "Halo 3 : mainstream
    gta 4 : mainstream
    mario galaxy : hardcore"

    I'm not sure how you came up with that definition, or just how narrow a bracket you consider mainstream to be. Ask anybody in the street if they have heard of Mario, and then compare the numbers for the same question about Halo and GTA.

    Regardless, compared to Wii Sports and Braintraining, all three are hardcore.

  • Les #40 3 years ago

    "Oh.. dear... you sad sad sad sad child."

    ?!

  • spammage #41 3 years ago

    "While there are many Wii owners who are hardcore and who care very much about scores"

    You can't be playing that much if the Wii is your first choice console.

  • Widge #42 3 years ago

    Yes I didn't quite see why the need for the sad child thing either. I'm guessing a bit of mis-reading of postage.

  • Skywise #43 3 years ago

    That's what you get with such a large percentage of casual players.
    Core players complaining about this should blame the other core players really,
    if enough of them had bought the GameCube then Nintendo wouldn't need this new direction.

    Still this article is a bit unfair, most of the titles mentioned deserved bad sales imo:
    "There are notable examples of Wii games reviewing well but falling on deaf wallets - even Nintendo titles. Punch-Out!! still hasn't broken into the UK All-Formats top 40, and MadWorld, Okami and Boom Blox all quickly sunk without trace."

    MadWorld: lots of reviews criticised this game. It looks old too
    Okami: a port of an old PS2 game released at full price while the PS2 game was many times cheaper
    Boom Blox: a great game but it looks unappealing

    I don't get the bad sales for Punch-Out although for me the lack of online play is a reason not to buy it
    Edited by 2 at 18/06/09 @ 03:24

  • oerhoert #44 3 years ago

    Punch-Out is fan service. I don't think Nintendo expected that one to sell millions.

  • scouserfuller9 #45 3 years ago

    The problem for third parties with the Wii is coming up with decent games for the system is not a simple task. Even though Nintendo have most their games in the Wii's top sellers they also have a few games that have done extremely poor too so even they don't succeed all the time.
    This sums Miyamoto's comment on how Nintendo have five years experience compared to MS and Sony. Yes they both have created great motion controls but is there great games out there being created for it with motion controls being new to them? He's pointing out Nintendo already know how to please the gaming world as the charts have shown us the past two years!

  • mega7ech #46 3 years ago

    @penhalion

    "It's gamecube 101 all over again. 3rd parties can't make a dime on the blasted thing so sooner rather than later, they will desert the platform in droves. Then it's down to just Nintendo software and once that happens, the platform will go the way of the gamecube and simply stagnate."

    Agree completely, as also happened with the N64.

  • CallousB #47 3 years ago

    3rd party games do sell well on the Wii..they just happen to be casual for the most part (but frankly that's what most devs are releasing)

    More 3rd party software was sold on the Wii in 08 than any other platform...unfortunately 3rd parties have flooded the market with so much software that the quality stuff is drowned out on the shelves. They all need to be more focused.

    I would love to see Nintendo putting a halt to some 3rd party shovelware releases..but ironically doing that back in the NES days is what caused many of the problems with 3rd parties in the first place.

  • electrolite #48 3 years ago

    I'm reading this again, trying to find the revelation. PS1, PS2, Wii, it's 3 generations now where the leading machine has been weighed down with generic shovelware and the only way to stand out from the crowd is marketing. How did Kurushi, Kula World, Vib Ribbon, Jumping Flash, ICO, Frequency, Rez, Sly Raccoon do?

    'Twas ever thus

  • smelly #49 3 years ago

    @beemoh - i'll shorten that for you:

    Third-party games don't sell on Wii for three reasons:

    1) they're shit

    or

    2) they're good albeit obscure games which wouldnt sell on any machine.

  • bad09 #50 3 years ago

    The thing is...it's all marketing. RE's bloodbath for example, even us "hardcore" buy through marketing (don't kid yourself, you do). The problem the Wii has is it's overkill of marketing (and content) image. The huge media blitz as a fashion item for people WHO DO NOT PLAY GAMES means it's now a fashion item for people WHO DO NOT PLAY GAMES (please. Don't give me the "we are all gamers if it's a game" speech software these days is a joke even if there is people to buy it).

    / goes and "plays" go walk somwhere using his brain to count steps to the cooker for some body shaping while down the carnival.......

    EDIT:
    / Corrects. Thrice (Is that how you spell it it? I need "Let's Spell words!" or something). Wonders if there is a Wii game "lets - Learn to type after a 2006 Shiraz"?

    Edited by 3 at 17/06/09 @ 20:55

  • Arwin #51 3 years ago

    I like World of Goo, but its developer's comments are not relevant to the article, which refers to people who wouldn't know what steam was if hit fell on them, even IF steam was on their platform, which it isn't and very likely won't ever be.

  • Diomedes #52 3 years ago

    1)They have forgotten the hardcore gamer and lost their pride.

    2)Their shareholders are very happy about that .

    3)Soccer moms and senior citizens will keep buying the fitness games whatever metacritic says.

    4)Things will keep like this ,specially because 2 .This is the end of the old Nintendo .

  • damascus #53 3 years ago

    as usual, nintendo hate and anecdotal 'i sold my wii' replies.

  • #54 3 years ago

    lol....
    Hey guys..what do u think about this? just chat with me --I am an open-mineded single girl and I love sports. I want to end my single life by meeting a guy who likes sports too. Let's mingle at the big&tall dating club ___ TallMingle.com _____" which is a popular meeting site for tall singles and admirers!

  • jaguarwong #55 3 years ago

    "3/ Titles aimed at the core market tend to be late ports of other formats' titles, with tacked-on motion control gimmickry."

    NEWSFLASH - It's not 2007 any more.

    Regardless of the quality (or otherwise) of the software this point ceased to be true a good while ago.

  • Ryze #56 3 years ago

    @MBar

    :D

  • Ryze #57 3 years ago

    Save yourselves the annoyance and just ignore smelly.

    1st class stupid fanboy arsehole.

    Seriously.
    Edited by 1 at 18/06/09 @ 14:31