Apple: DS and PSP "don't stack up"

By GamesIndustry International Published 10 September, 2009

App Store content dwarfs rivals.

Apple VP Phil Schiller has said that over 21,178 "games and entertainment" titles are available for the iPhone and iPod Touch, which he reckons makes them the leading handheld gaming devices on the market.

"They don't really stack up any more," Schiller said yesterday of the DS and PSP, which only have a 3078 and 607 games available, according to his statistics. Wimps!

Speaking at an Apple event in San Francisco, which also saw the announcement of an upgraded iPod Touch, he added that DS and PSP don't have multi-touch screens or anything like the App Store, and that their games are at least twice as expensive as those for iPhone and iPod Touch.

With that said, PSPgo aims to capture the spirit of the App Store when it launches on 1st October with its Minis iniative, also compatible with older PSPs, while the DS has DSiWare. Neither DS or PSP can compete for volume with the App Store, however.

Elsewhere, recovering Apple boss Steve Jobs told the New York Times that the Touch has now become primarily a gaming device after a shaky start with a weak identity.

"Originally, we weren't exactly sure how to market the Touch," he said in an interview. "Was it an iPhone without the phone? Was it a pocket computer? What happened was, what customers told us was, they started to see it as a game machine.

"We started to market it that way, and it just took off. And now what we really see is it's the lowest-cost way to the App Store, and that's the big draw. So what we were focused on is just reducing the price to $199. We don’t need to add new stuff. We need to get the price down where everyone can afford it."

In terms of market share, there are now more than 50 million iPhones and iPod Touches in users' hands - a number that's practically neck-and-neck with Sony's PSP, which boasts numbers of 51 million. The DS has reached well over 100 million, but has been available for six years compared to Apple's two.

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Comments (111) Latest comment 3 years ago

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  • Bigglesworth #1 3 years ago

    Must be something about exposure to games titles that turns company execs into arrogant, blithering idiots.

  • GamesProgrammer Verified Games Team Programmer, Eutechnyx Ltd. #2 3 years ago

    Im sure all those 21,178 are all absolutley amazing games as well, not mostly shit that was knocked up in a week to try and make a quick buck.

  • Vice.Destroyer #3 3 years ago

    Arrogant? Yes. Blithering idiots? No matter how much I may dislike Apple as a brand, I think you have to be a blithering idiot to describe their VP or Steve Jobs as a blithering idiot.

    Just my two cents.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #4 3 years ago

    "Imagine developing an iphone app and trying to sell it in a mass of 21k apps"

    If it's good enough it'll sell enough - numerous iPod games have sold over a million copies. And since the cost of development is absolutely staggeringly smaller than it is on DS or PSP, the potential risk/reward ratio is hugely attractive, which is why games development on DS and PSP is dying a death and the iPod attracts more developers by the day.

    It's also VASTLY easier to get your game seen and played on the App Store. How do you try out a DS game you might have heard of? You have to buy it. High Street game stores stock only the most mainstream titles and there are (almost) no demos available, so your only option is to fork out 20 quid and hope for the best. On the App Store most games have free demo versions, and even if they don't you can just take a punt because it's only 59p. That's an awfully big advantage in terms of getting your game seen and played if you're an independent or new developer.
    Edited by Rev.StuartCampbell at 10/09/09 @ 11:09

  • mingster #5 3 years ago

    Out of that 21,000 items are there more than 10 games that are better than average?
    I can only think of 5 games that are excellent.
    Not worth buying a touch for.
    Edited by mingster at 10/09/09 @ 11:07

  • mingster #6 3 years ago

    I don't doubt if your games good enough it will sell, but the majority are just crap frankly.

  • speedjack #7 3 years ago

    I'm sure DS and PSP users really miss not having easy access to a vast selection of fart apps, and other poorly rendered 'me too' mobile titles with hobbled controls.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #8 3 years ago

    Out of that 21,000 items are there more than 10 games that are better than average?
    I can only think of 5 games that are excellent.

    Then you're not looking very hard. I posted lists of over 60 on another thread just the other day, and every single game in this list is well above average:

    http://s2.zetaboards.com/worldofstuart/t...

  • Ninja_Tino #9 3 years ago

    99% of these games are a waste of time though. The touch screen analogue 'stick' and buttons are ALWAYS a pain, as well. The only games that work are quick arcade games and puzzlers, or ones that really utilize the tilt function. There's only so many games like that til they get boring though.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #10 3 years ago

    "I'm sure DS and PSP users really miss not having easy access to a vast selection of fart apps"

    Woo! Another dick who last looked at the App Store in February 2008! Just what we needed!

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #11 3 years ago

    "The only games that work are quick arcade games and puzzlers, or ones that really utilize the tilt function."

    In which of those categories would you place GeoDefense, Sentinel, Fieldrunners, Wolfenstein RPG, Gangstar, Defender Chronicles, Kill All Bugs...?

    And what's wrong with arcade games and puzzlers anyway? That's what handhelds are good at. 90% of the decent games on DS would fall into those categories.

  • Bigglesworth #12 3 years ago

    @V.D
    Lets just say that they tend to lose a bit of perspective, then. For his next trick, this guy will be comparing actual apples* to oranges.

    *No pun intended.

  • insincere_dave #13 3 years ago

    Yeah, they don't stack up because Apple insists upon pointlessly making their gadgets curvy and shiny to appeal to that hard-to-please pretentious but ultimately dead inside market.
    Edited by insincere_dave at 10/09/09 @ 11:19

  • dog2_99 #14 3 years ago

    but the games is only one portion of the reason to buy a touch.

    It also handles MP3 and Videos much better than the PSP and DSL currently do; plus it can surf the internet much better as well.

  • swissorc #15 3 years ago

    Seems like someone's hit the Rev's nerve how dare people think anything apples produces is shit. After all they're computer NEVER crash do they hmmmmmmmmm

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #16 3 years ago

    "Seems like someone's hit the Rev's nerve how dare people think anything apples produces is shit. After all they're computer NEVER crash do they hmmmmmmmmm"

    I wouldn't know, I've never owned one.

  • Xerx3s #17 3 years ago

    "over 21,178 "games and entertainment" titles"

    Nice choice of words. Too bad the vast majority of them are not even worth mentioning. They throw these nice sounding numbers around but they don't mean shit.

    "Must be something about exposure to games titles that turns company execs into arrogant, blithering idiots. "

    Not really, that didn't pop up with the games thing.

  • Collymilad #18 3 years ago

    Lol Apple.

    You might be making money but most of that 20 odd thousand is a load of crap.

  • anomagnus #19 3 years ago

    a mountain of shite is still a mountain of shite, no matter what way you cut it, mr. jobs.

    sadly, the app store is still a roaring success, and much like the wii, it doesn't actually pay to make a good game on the iphone. Code some shit up, put it at 99 cents, and rock on.

    this type of low budget, mass appeal shit makes me fear a slow down in games development. Why should companies invest millions making another Batman, when they can make more profit making some wank game about waggling a stick, or some app that tells you how big your penis is by touching the screen?

    I fucking loathe the app store with a passion that is almost holy.And to have that tool jobs up there, preaching about a mountain of shite sends shivers down my spine.

    Heres a request jobs, fuck off out of the games market NOW. We don't need the hand held equivalent of the wii.

  • speedjack #20 3 years ago

    "Then you're not looking very hard. I posted lists of over 60 on another thread just the other day, and every single game in this list is well above average"

    I'm sure that if 21,178 app developing monkeys were put in a room at least ohh... 60 (?) of them might come up with 'above average' games.

  • JohnnyWashnGo #21 3 years ago

    Apple are still new to the wonderful world of games platform hardware so they can be excused for blowing their own trumpet a little bit. Don't forget the hyperbole that sprouted for from Game.com, NeoGeo Pocket and Gizmondo when they released portable gaming platforms. This is little different, albeit Apple have some actual software to talk about ;)

    But they have a long way to go before they can legitimately have a pop at Nintendo, whose dominance of the portable gaming world not only shows that they can give people what they want but also innovate when needs be. They have a heritage which Apple should be applauding not berating.

    If they are around in another 10 years and have several good hardware iterations under their belt, then maybe we should listen to them when that talk about gaming. For now, they are talking BS. A portable gaming device without buttons severally restricts your options Apple. Did you think Nintendo didn't think of that when designing the DS or the DS Lite or DSi? There is a reason they use buttons - tactile feedback and a great response time. Hitting a piece of glass with your finger will never do.

    Oh and in my opinion, if you don't sell games in boxes with instructions, you don't sell games. I am tired of hearing about digital delivery, its soulless and precludes resale of the goods that were purchased.

  • Xerx3s #22 3 years ago

    "And since the cost of development is absolutely staggeringly smaller than it is on DS or PSP"

    Development costs are usually lower because the production values are usually lower. I don't think that games with similar production values as other platforms are that much cheaper off.

  • LazyDan #23 3 years ago

    It's quality over quantity, Apple.

    There may be good stuff, but I guarantee not one title even approaches the gameplay and graphical quality, depth and comfort/precision of control of the top DS titles like New Super Mario Bros, Professor Layton, Pokemon Diamond/Platinum, GTA: Chinatown Wars, Mario Kart: DS or the top PSP titles like God of War, FF: Dissidia, Soul Calibur, Monster Hunter or Little Big Planet.

    It is a multimedia machine and was designed as such, the games are a bonus. Apple are attempting to market it as a gaming device in a deseperate bid to give the Touch an identity now the iPhone is doing so well. I think they'd have done better to market it as simply an iPhone without the phone - noting that it's considerably cheaper for it. I'd buy one if I could get it at sub-£100, but their arrogance in telling us it's something that it clearly isn't is insulting.

  • peterfll #24 3 years ago

    What a silly sausage, saying such silliness.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #25 3 years ago

    "Development costs are usually lower because the production values are usually lower. "

    Bollocks. Just because a game might be simple doesn't mean its "production values" are low. Costs are lower for a variety of reasons, but most strikingly because you don't have to invest millions of pounds in producing tens of thousands of physical cartridges, and pay Nintendo a fat licence fee on every one, before you sell a single unit. On the App Store you make your game, and then any number of people from one to a million can buy it at no cost to you whatsoever. If your game is a stiff you've lost whatever time it took you to write it, and that's it. Nobody ever lost a million bucks making an iPod game.

    Oh, and shock news for Speedjack: 90% of games on ANY system are shit. What's your point?

  • BootLace #26 3 years ago

    Well, sticking with the quantity > quality theme, I seem to recall there were over 10,000 titles available for the Spectrum 48k. Does this mean the iPhone/iPod Touch is only twice as good as a 25year old 8bit machine with rubber keys?

  • mingster #27 3 years ago

    I too fear that with the advent of 'casual gaming' and sub par low budget 99cent apps.
    That soon a large portion of average size game development companies will go bust as it will be un-economical to produce a high budget , large scale production value game. It is the law of deminishing returns.
    Only a few monster devs will be able to afford to make anything grand ie: EA and Activision everone else will jump on the 'cheap to make' cheap to sell bandwagon.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #28 3 years ago

    "There may be good stuff, but I guarantee not one title even approaches the gameplay and graphical quality, depth and comfort/precision of control of the top DS titles like...,"

    Is that a money-back guarantee?

    I'm tired of this endless parade of ignorant shit from people who've never played an iPod game in their life. Real Racing pisses all over the "graphical quality" of any DS racer from an enormous height. And there's never been a game in history with more "control comfort" than Flight Control.

    I will concede that there are no iPod titles with quite such a soul-crushing weight of knuckle-chewingly tedious cutscenes as Professor Layton, though.

  • Xerx3s #29 3 years ago

    "Bollocks.[+rest]"

    No. Most games on the iphone are simple games (xblig type simple) with one person working on them from his home. That kinda stuff has much lower production values than something like a complete RPG, made by a full team.

  • Horse #30 3 years ago

    None of the posts down-voted beyond the visibility threshold so far should have been. It's basically being used to censor opinions because people don't agree with them.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #31 3 years ago

    "Oh and in my opinion, if you don't sell games in boxes with instructions, you don't sell games. I am tired of hearing about digital delivery, its soulless and precludes resale of the goods that were purchased."

    What a load of tosh. Firstly, you don't need resale value on a game that cost you 59p. Secondly, and clearly it's a matter of taste but to call iPod gaming "soulless" betrays your lack of soul, not the iPod's. I can't remember the last time I was this excited about gaming, or a time I spent so much time playing games since I finished Bangai-O Spirits. Literally every single day there's at least one brand new game I really want to play, and which I can buy for the price of a packet of crisps. It's like Christmas every morning, and if you find that "soulless" there's something seriously the matter with your soul.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #32 3 years ago

    "No. Most games on the iphone are simple games (xblig type simple) with one person working on them from his home. That kinda stuff has much lower production values than something like a complete RPG, made by a full team."

    No, it doesn't. You read too much Edge (ie any Edge). "Production values" doesn't mean the same thing as "budget".

  • aliki #33 3 years ago

    What a load of crap. I have played iPod Touch games and the many of them are crap. I rather save my £1 on something far more useful, like cheap shit beer from Asda. At least with shit beer you get some form of entertainment.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #34 3 years ago

    "Well, sticking with the quantity > quality theme, I seem to recall there were over 10,000 titles available for the Spectrum 48k. Does this mean the iPhone/iPod Touch is only twice as good as a 25year old 8bit machine with rubber keys?"

    Yes, assuming that by the same logic you conclude that the PSP is roughly 1/16th as good as the Speccy...

  • peterfll #35 3 years ago

    Sweeping generalisations on the quality of the games for PSP, DS and iPhone are about as useless as using quantity as a measure of superiority.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #36 3 years ago

    "What a load of crap. I have played iPod Touch games and the many of them are crap."

    Whereas, of course, ALL games for the DS and PSP are brilliant.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #37 3 years ago

    "None of the posts down-voted beyond the visibility threshold so far should have been. It's basically being used to censor opinions because people don't agree with them."

    It happens especially badly on iPhone/iPod stories, because people are really desperate to convince themselves that they're not missing out, since most self-styled "hardcore" gamers don't own one. So you get a flood of negatives on any comment that says anything good about them, regardless of the quality of the post itself, and a flood of recommendations for retards like aliki going "DURR SOME IPOD GAMES ARE BAD I LIKE BEER". It's endemic to "serious" gaming sites, it can't be helped. Stand by for at least -6 on this one.

  • davisorle #38 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 20:44:35 16-04-2012

  • Goodfella #39 3 years ago

    Don't worry about the ignorant retards Rev. I'm giving a plus 1 to all your posts.

  • penhalion #40 3 years ago

    Apple could use a better quality control mechanism but, let's face it, it's not like there are a vast majority of quality titles on any platform. Just look at the dross that came out for PS2 and PS1. I seem to remember back in the day Sony were shouting about the number of titles on their platforms as opposed to Nintendo's and Microsoft's.

    Same shit statistics, different mouth uttering them!

  • metalmike25 #41 3 years ago

    @davisorle

    You're a very angry young man. Take a deep breath and just relax. Not sure if you've noticed but the story is about the Ipod Touch. Now try again...

  • GreyBeard #42 3 years ago

    Yeah, but if 60 worthwhile titles exist out of a pool of nearly 22,000 apps that puts the good stuff to shit ratio at what, .3% ?

    That's a problem, because with numbers like that its hard for punters to find the really good stuff, and its hard for developers to see any profit from their time.

    On one hand I applaud Apple for providing a successor to the bedroom coder platforms of years gone by, and for allowing a truly free pricing policy, but its still a walled-garden and its value to small developers is decreasing as the channel gets more and more flooded.

    If you want to shift numbers now, you need some form of promotion - be it via a top-page listing on the appstore or whatever- and that kind of defeats the whole "level-playing-field" notion that was the platforms original big selling point.

  • Razorus #43 3 years ago

    Are they really surprised that DS and PSPs games are "at least twice as expensive".
    After all, they are ACTUAL games, not short software applications. I have a Touch and I love it, and some of the games are great on it, but these execs need some serious medicine to cure them of retarded comments such as the ones they've made.
    Obviously you have way more titles than PSP and DS. That's because the games you have are made cheaply by small groups of talented developers and they are very short usually.

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #44 3 years ago

    Are people really slating the choice, quality and delivery method of iPhone?!

    I'm somewhat reluctant to use a list but I'm thinking most of the people in this thread are posting comments through ignorance rather than experience so here goes:

    The iPhone is home brand-new games of immense quality that rival anything on the PSP or DS such as Real Racing, Doom Resurrection, Let's Golf, Hero Of Sparta, Rolando 2, X2 Soccer 2009, Spider and Modern Combat: Sandstrom.

    It's also home to cheap, fun games that you can have a quick blast of on the bog or waiting for the missus such as Melon Golf, Aqua Globs, Ragdoll Blast, Monospace, DrawRace and HarborMaster.

    There's also a heap of brilliant/creative/insane craziness that you just don't find anywhere else such as Eliss, One Dot Enemies, Passage and Envirobear 2010.

    Lastly there's great ports and retro titles such as Monkey Island, Peggle, Myst, Tiger Woods and Civilisation Revolution all for prices that are a 1/3rd or less of what you'd pay for the DS/PSP versions.

    All delivered wirelessly and saved on the device.

    If you want to find good games you go to games sites and forums and read about them, just like you'd do for a home console. I

    It's fucking brilliant.

  • speedjack #45 3 years ago

    I think Joystiq made an interesting point on this :-

    Although Apple considers this grand number a triumph, it should be noted with cautious optimism. The great video game crash of the early '80s had a little bit to do with the lack of quality control happening in the industry, which was an issue Nintendo rectified with its "seal of quality" soon after.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #46 3 years ago

    "That's a problem, because with numbers like that its hard for punters to find the really good stuff, and its hard for developers to see any profit from their time. "

    No it isn't. You evidently didn't read the previous posts. It's much easier to find good stuff on the App Store, because the nature of using it is so different. You wake up in the morning, you rub your eyes, you switch on the TV for the news and you check AppSniper to see what's new or reduced in price today. If something sounds interesting you take a look at the Lite version, or if you're feeling daring you just splurge 59p and buy it. 21,000 apps isn't a problem because you're only ever looking at one or two days' worth of releases at a time.

    And it's actually easier for developers to see profit, because the threshold for profit is much, much, much, much, much, much lower, due to the absence of any physical costs whatsoever. After all, those 21,000 apps were all developed by someone, and evidently devs DO think there's money to be made, or they wouldn't be developing all those apps in the first place.

    The PSP, meanwhile, died as a gaming platform about 18 months ago (PSP Minis will be interesting, if rumours of the almost-iPod-low prices are true, but I think PSP owners are far too pompously "hardcore" to buy them in big numbers), and the DS is going rapidly downhill this year, with barely any interesting or worthwhile titles amongst a biblical flood of My Kitten's Make-Up Hospital slop that makes the average iPod game look like Metal Gear Solid 4.

  • monkeylite #47 3 years ago

    This retard seem to have forgotten about the GBA games available for the DS and DS Lite and the number of PS1 games available for the PSP. Not as many as App Store granted, but seriously, how many of those are worth paying/playing?

    Now compare them to the classics available for either platforms (Advance Wars, Metal Gear Solid, Metroid Fusion, Final Fantasy VII, Golden Sun, Xenogears, Parasite Eve, Resident Evil, Minish Cap, Vagrant Story etc. - many available for less than a cost of a meal and offers tens of hours worth of entertainment) and new games (Dissidia, Layton, Wipeout, Patapon, God of War, Loco Roco, Ace Attorney, NSMB etc.) and future titles (Dragon Quest IX, LittleBigPlanet, Gran Turismo etc.) and you will understand why people disagree with the hyperbole being spouted by the likes of Steve Jobs and his followers.

  • Alkeno #48 3 years ago

    People are missing the point I believe. The iPod touch is a great platform for some kind of games, as many have stated before. It doesn't compete against the DS or the PSP because the focus is quite different.

    Just spend 10 minutes on the net and choose 25 great games from the App Store valued 1€ each. A good, solid little game that entertains for 2 hours is a bargain if shipped at 1€!!! Now compare the value you are getting compared to just one high-budget 25 quid PSP game... They are not incompatible, some may prefer the longer more elaborate 10 hour experience of a high budget PSP title, some may prefer the simpler experience of smaller games.

    Apple has a solid point. So many people with an iPod touch or iPhone bored while commuting... so many people could be just spending a quid every week just to get a new game to burn the underground time with. It's a lot of money to be made.

    All in all, Apple should really start to harden the approval process so as garbage doesn't keep entering the Store.

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #49 3 years ago

    Finding games should get easier thanks to Apple now implementing the genius function for apps:
    http://appadvice.com/appnn/2009/09/need-...

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #50 3 years ago

    Thanks for pointing out the obvious and why I say 'finding games' as opposed to 'finding good games'.

  • TopKatt #51 3 years ago

    @Rev

    I normally mark your posts down because they come across as rude and aggressive.
    Edited by TopKatt at 10/09/09 @ 12:41

  • YoshiMcTaggis #52 3 years ago

    I dread to think what AppSniper looks like the first time I switch on a new iPhone.

    "21,000 new apps. Good luck."

  • bdaggers #53 3 years ago

    What a bunch of up tight tossers, defending the DS and PSP.

    Pacman said it best, and the success of the App store is it's own best defence. PSPGO is Sonys way of aping the App store convenience and accesability.

    Nintendo will do whatever they want, regardless.

    Five years from now I predict the iPhone/iPod Touch will be the dominant hand held for adults, with the DS seen as a toy for kids, and the PSP will be a quaint memory of times gone by when PS2 shovel ware could be ported and sold for £30.

  • secombe #54 3 years ago

    I've had my iPhone 4 weeks and am entirely new to 'Apple' as a concept...but I've not had any trouble in finding 15 great games already, which cost me a grand total of less than £20. When I say great, I genuinely mean great, GeoDefence has been eating my time in epic amounts lately, FlightControl is simple perfection in gaming form, Peggle is Peggle. I've literally not played my DS since it arrived, I was shocked at how good it is.

    Sure they could implement a better system to trawl through 21,000 games, but the good ones usually head to the top of the various charts somehow. There may be 21,000 games, but I've only really looked closely at 100 or so, and found 15 games I really really like within that 100.

    And to the guy who knocked the graphics, I assume you haven't seen/played Real Racing?

  • JohnnyWashnGo #55 3 years ago

    'What a load of tosh. Firstly, you don't need resale value on a game that cost you 59p.'

    RSC, I wasn't isolating my comment about digital delivery to just the Apple hardware. I was including the DSiWare as well as whatever we call the crap sold for PSPGo from PSN. Those games most certainly do not cost just 59p and, in fact, most of the PSP downloadable software costs more than the corresponding boxed version from Play.com.
    Edited by JohnnyWashnGo at 10/09/09 @ 13:26

  • jonsaan #56 3 years ago

    Rev. We get it ok? You like the iphone. You've switched all you previous handheld love to that platform and we understand that.

  • Rubarack #57 3 years ago

    I can definitely see the appeal of this kind of games delivery system, but I'm not going to buy a £300 phone or £150 mp3 player with a battery that lasts 2 hours for the first few months before needing replacing (except it can't) to get to it. Linking up to a system that hates your PC is unlikely to help long term either.

    This is going to be big, but I don't think Apple have even begun to tap the market for it.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #58 3 years ago

    "I normally mark your posts down because they come across as rude and aggressive."

    That's because you're a cunt.

  • Mnia786 #59 3 years ago

    JOBS can check nuts.Out of them 20k apps, how many can go on an actually sell well past their release date?

  • TopKatt #60 3 years ago

    @Rev

    Okay, I had to give you a plus one for that.

  • des #61 3 years ago

    I think that Apple will dominate handheld scene in few years...hate and denial around the net tells how big and influential Apple is(or will be) in handheld gaming...
    Whole philosophy of small,cheap,easy to get games is a perfect strategy for a handheld.

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #62 3 years ago

    @Mnia786

    Loads. Have a look at the top 25.

  • Nithron #63 3 years ago

    It's pretty retarded to compare the quality of two platforms on numbers of releases alone.

    On the other hand, I basically haven't turned my DS on since I got my ipod touch. I only bought it as a replacement for my old ipod(which broke), but since then the prevalence of pick-up-and-play handheld games, typically for less than two quid, has caused me to totally forget about the other handhelds.

    In my opinion though, a decent DS game hasn't come along in a long, long time anyway.

  • Goffee #64 3 years ago

    If only one or two brave journos would stand up and call "BULLSHIT" at an Apple event, then we could all get on with our lives and they'd stop spouting such crap.

  • hiddenranbir #65 3 years ago

    Tactile response for the win.

  • Batfink #66 3 years ago

    I own a wii, an xbox360 and an ipod touch. In the last 3 months I have done more gaming on the ipod touch than both my 'proper' consoles. It's fantastic. Cheap software, incredibly portable, friendly to use and it's got loads of my music, my email, my calendar, web access (wifi only but pah) and all sorts of non-gaming apps. A computer in my pocket I can actually use. I've had all sorts of pocket gadgets and gizmos since 2000 when I bought one of the first ipaqs. The touch/iphone is the first one actually worth taking with me everywhere.

  • Bigglesworth #67 3 years ago

    I own a wii, an xbox360 and an ipod touch. In the last 3 months I have done more gaming on the ipod touch than both my 'proper' consoles.
    You need a PS3 ;)

  • speedjack #68 3 years ago

    I too think most people are missing the point here.

    Apple are claiming MORE GAMES = BETTER.

    also...

    Touchscreen alone = better interface than D-pad/Nub - so they ARE trying to compare the itouch/phone with DS/PSP.

    This is obviously corporate PR rubbish perpitrated by non-gamers who have most likely never even used the app store for gaming.

    ...and yes I have an 8GB iPod touch, have downloaded a selection of games from the app store and with the exception of Peggle (which I paid 59p for), found them all to be average at best... I also own a DS, and once owned a PSP, so I think I meet the stipulated requirements to be able to form an opinion.

    By all means if you are happy with your iphone experience for quick fix 2hr cheap games - great,... but Apple are trying to tell the general public that as a gaming system iphone is better than DS or PSP. This is plainly wrong.

    (IMHO)




  • Arwin #69 3 years ago

    I really like the iPhone in general, although each time I've considered getting one something got in the way (like that the waiting list over here is 4 weeks for the 3GS, or like that I can only program on it using a Mac, which I don't have)

    However, I just saw Assassin's Creed 2 for the iPhone, and somehow I get the feeling that the PSP version will be a LOT better. I also don't quite see Soul Calibur IV on the DS, or GT PSP / Motorstrom, etc. So they're exaggerating a little there I think. ;)

    However, games that really make good use of the system or games like Civilisations are pretty cool, and in the context of gaming on a phone, iPhone games are of exceptional quality. ;)

  • Dizzy #70 3 years ago

    TBH I do most of my mobile gaming on an iPhone now... only packing in my DS on those long flights.

  • ps3owner #71 3 years ago

    Rev. Stuart Campbell is on a crusade. all non believers have to be converted to the iReligion. watch out ppl

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #72 3 years ago

    "its not about quantity its about quality "

    Wow, thank fuck you were here to enlighten us all with such a nugget of profound fucking wisdom that hadn't ever occurred to anyone before ever.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #73 3 years ago

    "but Apple are trying to tell the general public that as a gaming system iphone is better than DS or PSP."

    Er, yes, that IS what they're trying to do. Nintendo and Sony, on the other hand, are famous for their even-handed and unbiased appraisals of the various competing platforms, often advising people to buy a rival's machine if they think it will offer a game experience more suited to their individual needs.

    APPLE BASTARDS.

  • dr_faulk #74 3 years ago

    Expect Ubisoft to release a ton of garbage for this new iPod touch.

  • Sanxo #75 3 years ago

    My god the 'moderation' system here is pants. Take it away, for the love of god.

    On topic - if you haven't come across Job's trademark Reality Distortion Field before, well you have now.

    Competition is good and keeps companies like Nintendo and Sony honest - let's face it, they've both been pretty sociopathic in the past.

  • IP #76 3 years ago

    Highly amusing to see so many people suddenly calling the Rev an Apple fan-boy. He doesn't care for Macs and hates iTunes. The main reason he got an iPod touch seems to be because a bunch of us kept wittering on about it in various places and he saw that the games were exciting and vibrant, mostly created by indies rather than soulless developers. Given the number of games he's played and how long he's been in the industry, it's a bit sad to see so many people dismissing his arguments out of hand, but then, as we all know, APPLE SMELLS OF WEE, regardless of what it does.

    Funnily enough, I was also making the same anti-Apple-gaming argument a year ago on Cult of Mac. However, I today finally got around to writing an article reacting to the knee-jerk anti-Apple bullshit and also admitted how astonishingly wrong I was a year ago. Why Apple is Right to Pitch iPod touch as a Games Console to Beat the DSi and PSP Go details the main complaints most people have about the platform - complaints I also made 12 months ago - and explains why they're all a load of bollocks.

    As for people here yelling that Apple is awful without having ever played an iPod game, or having played one once in a pub for three seconds, you sound like people who bitched about the fact the DS would never amount to anything because it dared to do something a bit different.
    Edited by IP at 10/09/09 @ 16:54

  • Bazfrag #77 3 years ago

    Ignore poster button is getting worn out! It takes massive balls to insult people on the internet....

  • Ryze #78 3 years ago

    Willy waving?!?

    We're better, because we have more games!

    Great, so where's Street Fighter II, and how do I play it again? Maybe they need a bluetooth classic controller!

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #79 3 years ago

    "Great, so where's Street Fighter II,"

    It's in 1992.

  • TopKatt #80 3 years ago

    It's in 1992.

    And yet it's still too demanding to run on an iPhone.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #81 3 years ago

    "And yet it's still too demanding to run on an iPhone. "

    Er, where on Earth do you get that from? The iPod is perfectly capable of running 3D fighters like Blades Of Fury, what makes you think it couldn't handle SF2?

    Incidentally, where can I purchase SF2 for the DS?

  • drumbaby #82 3 years ago

    Glad I have the choice to go with the wimps.

  • SAH1977 #83 3 years ago

    I've owned an iPod Touch for a couple of months and it is an oustanding piece of hardware. On the software front it's easy to keep up with the top rated Apps on the App Store, plus websites like Touch Arcade.

    It's also great to go searching for hidden gems, especially when most are either free or have demos, this is entertaining in itself, like a mini game shopping spree every couple of days.
    Edited by SAH1977 at 11/09/09 @ 21:54

  • Rens11 #84 3 years ago

    Yea but how many games off the app store are actual games? and can any compete with gta psp, tekken, god of war,final fantasy, super mario, chrono trigger plus many many more in any way other than price? I know I'd rather pay £20 for a game that would give me 100hours of entertainment than £6 for 4 hours of medicore controls and tilting!
    Edited by Rens11 at 12/09/09 @ 13:07

  • lucky_jim #85 3 years ago

    I think Stuart Campbell is destined to have the minus button next to his posts clicked by people on EG, even if he came on here with a recipe for a drink which gets you pissed while curing aids and cancer and making you irresistible to the opposite sex, people would still bitch at him for it. But he's right on the money here. Sony and Nintendo are shitting bricks over the Apple's devices, and you can trot out the same tired "Apple suxxors" arguments all you want, the fact is that it's successful because there's such a low barrier of entry for both the consumer and the developer.

    I mean, even Microsoft has had to re-think its Indie Games pricing in light of the App Store's success. The DS and PSP both suffer from piracy in a way iPhone doesn't, even though it's arguably easier to jailbreak an iPhone than to pirate on a DS or PSP. Why? Because there isn't a layer of parasitic publishers and retailers sucking money from the product, meaning devs can charge prices gamers are happy to pay.

    You don't have to be an Apple fan to think it's a good thing to have the big three running scared.

  • UncleLou #86 3 years ago

    Arrogant tone aside (they sure learned quickly how people talk in the gaming industry), he's right. Apple is in the process of rolling up the handheld gaming market like they did with music distribution all these years ago, and I am sure Sony and Nintendo know this pretty well. "Quantity over quality" moaners miss the point. Not only is that ratio particularly on the DS absolutely appalling as well, the bigger picture is just how well Apple's distributions system works, and that although it's still extremely early days.

    Going into a store to buy a boxed copy of a DS game at an extortionate price, without even being able to play a demo usually, feels positively ancient to me already.

  • firm3d #87 3 years ago

    So many people seem to think it's clever to respond to the 21k figure with "Yeah, but 98% of 'em are shit!". First of all, a lot more than 2% are good. Second of all, most of the shit ones are free. Third, for the cost of a good DS or PSP game you'll have gotten a lot more than 1 good iPhone/iPod touch game. Between "lite" and free games there's much more fun to be had out of the box than with the PSP or DS.

    I still love my PSP and I even have fun with my DS... occasionally (whenever there's a new Castlevania or Layton), but Apple have simply found a better way through the iPhone and iPod touch.

  • Numbat #88 3 years ago

    I have had an iPod touch since they were first launched and I still think it is fantastic. But I hope Apple don"t start to see it primarily as a gaming device. For me, it is like the ultimate blend of an iPod and a Palm. I've been impressed by the games as a diversion, but am just not into mobile gaming - I stick to my Xbox for this, But I think Apple may be starting another revolution.

    PSP and DS fans shouldn't be ranting against Apple - they should be ranting at Sony & Nintendo to come up with a way of obtaining games that is as good.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #89 3 years ago

    "I know I'd rather pay £20 for a game that would give me 100hours of entertainment than £6 for 4 hours of medicore gaming! "

    Clearly. We all would, but then those aren't the options. For the price of ONE new-release DS or PSP game, you could get ALL of these iPod games:

    Flight Control
    Parachute Panic
    Kill All Bugs
    Mr Driller
    Mr AahH
    Run
    Football U
    Racer
    Cluck It
    Dropsum
    Minigore
    Ferrari GT Evolution
    GeoDefense
    Arcade Bowling
    Pajatzo
    Dropship
    Let's Golf
    Paper Toss World Tour
    Shift
    Super Marble Roll
    Car Jack Streets
    Pinball Dreams
    Must Eat Birds
    Pool Rebel
    Death Ball
    Poker Superstars 3
    Giant Metal Robot
    Harbor Master
    3D Vector Ball
    Wolfenstein RPG
    Droplitz
    Sentinel: Mars Defence
    Siberian Strike
    Papi Jump+
    Lux Touch
    Cartoon Wars

    And considering that I've had 20+ hours each out of GeoDefense and DropSum alone, the one thing you can't argue is that you're getting short-changed by iPod games. (How many DS games actually offer 100+ hours anyway, that isn't 5 hours of game and 95 hours of grinding?)

  • secombe #90 3 years ago

    Funny how the majority of games mentioned by the haters in this thread are generally conventional console games (or handheld offsprings of), that's entirely missing the point. The majority of really popular games have been pretty much unknown outside of iPhone/Touch circles, mention how wonderfully designed DrawRace is here and it seems the response is "yeah but where are the real games".

    History tells us that the most popular handhelds are not slimmed down consoles, but genuine portable devices with dedicated portable games. The app devs know this and play to the strengths of a handheld device, that's why extremely small devs can and have outsell EA conversions of their popular console franchises, for example.

    The irony of the hatred is that the good games sell on iTunes, not the big, publisher driven licenses. What's happening is what most of the so-called hardcore would love to see in the conventional charts.

  • Slipstream #91 3 years ago

    It never crossed my mind that Apple would think to place their mobile games next to PSP and DS in such a way, fools.

  • Vroom #92 3 years ago

    Jeez rev. Agree with all your points but relax the cacks.

  • Widge #93 3 years ago

    Be interesting to see how things advance when the Mini's store opens up for PSP. Especially if they start giving dev kits away for free.

  • andromeda #94 3 years ago

    many games are just ridiculously trying to force the poor device to be something its not..
    Take Gangstar for example. Its an incredibly impressive package that offers pretty much what a 3d gta has to offer, albeit with a performance and visual stepdown.

    And then you try to play it.
    Oh dear.

  • secombe #95 3 years ago

    many games are just ridiculously trying to force the poor device to be something its not.

    Gangstar, Real Racing and Modern Combat are not indicative of the majority of iPhone games, yet they are always mentioned by anyone wanting to knock it (despite 2 of them being pretty solid games). They may be the sort of games that EG likes to cover, and be the more 'conventional' console game that certain type of gamers look for, but they really are a drop in the ocean if you spend some time looking through the App Store.

    For every poorly executed 'console-like' game there are at least 5 that play to the systems strength. You've just got to look past the conventional stuff...thankfully most buyers do, as the chart is full of fantastic titles with beautiful fluid controls.

  • el_pollo_diablo #96 3 years ago

    Having just read through this comments thread I feel like I've been physically violated.

  • Balfa #97 3 years ago

    Didn't Nintendo realise over 20 years ago that the Atari died because it had waaay too many games and no quality control? Sounds like a step backwards for Apple.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #98 3 years ago

    The difference being, all those poor-quality VCS games cost the equivalent in today's money of about £70. Buying the occasional stinker in 1980 was a rather bigger issue than blowing 59p on a bad iPod game is.

  • poopmonster #99 3 years ago

    Imagine developing an iphone app and trying to sell it in a mass of 21k apps.

    That's 21k games. Games account for approximately 1/3 of app sales, and there's a lot more "non-game apps" than games.

    And you're more likely to find those rare gems Indy devs come up with on the App Store, with it's low cost of entry and pretty damned good market access & clear profit cut, than on DS or PSP. One contract for all games...now if only other companies could do that.

    99% of these games are a waste of time though

    Funny, because I'd say the same for DS and PSP games.

    Edit: Actually, I'd probably go as far as to say 99% of ALL GAMES are a waste of time, period. But then there's no accounting for taste.
    Edited by poopmonster at 11/09/09 @ 14:58

  • Mchief22 #100 3 years ago

    Fuck off apple, all the shit on the app store isn't worth a second look!!

  • Banjax #101 3 years ago

    I take it the 22 in your username is a reference to your IQ then :|

  • zedzee #102 3 years ago

    That's right, Mr Jobs, the DS and PSP don't stack up because they're far more versatile for the money, have better controllers and more versatility in the range of games, more on-line capabilities and of course, don't cost the earth.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #103 3 years ago

    "and of course, don't cost the earth"

    LOLZ.

    RRPs of the "current" models of all three platforms:

    iPod Touch - £149
    DSi - £149
    PSPgo - £229

  • IP #104 3 years ago

    Yeah, but Rev, you also have to take into account the cost of the games, which are usually £20-odd plus on the DS and PSP, and yet they're usually a fiver or less on iPod.

    Oh.

  • GreyBeard #105 3 years ago

    iPod Touch - £149
    DSi - £149
    PSPgo - £229

    Bit of a skewed list there, putting the cheapest version of the Touch next to the most expensive offerings from Nintendo and Sony.
    At least use the 16gb version of the Touch in comparison with the 16gb PSPgo.

  • IP #106 3 years ago

    Ultimately, it's a case of "what can you get"? The PSP Go minimum price is £225, according to Amazon. You can't get a cheaper version. Also, the 16 GB iPod touch no longer exists, so the only comparison is:

    PSP Go 16 GB: £225
    iPod touch 32 GB: £229

    It's still only four quid more for the middle-of-the-range iPod, which has twice the built-in memory.

    As for Nintendo, you could argue that the DS should be used for comparison, and that's £100 - 50 quid less than the iPod. However, if you start looking at last-gen tech, you could also start grabbing prices from Apple's refurb store for the touch, which brings it closer (£119 for a second-gen); even if not, the pricing aligns pretty quickly once you've bought a few games.

    Still, from what I've seen online, most of the Apple rip-off argument stems from people not realising that you don't need an iPhone on an expensive contract to play all these games, and that a capable £150 device will fit the bill.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #107 3 years ago

    "Also, the 16 GB iPod touch no longer exists, so the only comparison is:
    PSP Go 16 GB: £225
    iPod touch 32 GB: £229 "

    Well, not really. If we're talking games machines then the 8GB Touch is more than adequate. It only has enough space by default to display 11 pages of apps, or a maximum of about 162 games at a time. (You can get round that restriction and have more, but it's a bit of a faff and you're not meant to.) 162 average-sized App Store games will take up no more than 3 to 3.5GB, still leaving you over 4GB free for music and movies and the like, which is plenty for most people's purposes. (It's around 1,200 songs at 128kbps, for example.)

    And I picked the 8GB Touch because it's also the model that Apple have specifically and explicitly identified as their attempt at a gaming-focused iPod. 32GB is massive, massive overkill if you want a Touch primarily as a gaming device.
    Edited by Rev.StuartCampbell at 12/09/09 @ 21:10

  • IP #108 3 years ago

    @Rev: I meant "the only comparison" in the sense of "the only 'direct' comparison, regarding the logic GreyBeard was using". As you're aware, I've also recommended the 8 GB model for most people.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #109 3 years ago

    Oh, sure. I just don't think it's the most appropriate comparison even on GreyBeard's terms. The PSPgo might have twice the memory of the 8GB Touch, but comparing the average game sizes on the two devices, you'll get a lot more iPod games into 8GB than you will PSP games into 16GB. And I suspect that'll even be true when the Minis appear.

  • GreyBeard #110 3 years ago

    My point was just that for a budget-conscious gamer, a PSP 3000 or a regular DS offers a lower cost entry-point for the same software.

    No question that the 8gb touch is good value, but its only fair to point out that it is the cheapest member of its family and the two devices that Stu was comparing it with are the most expensive ones in theirs.

    That's not a dig at the touch, its just pretty obvious that if someone was in the market to buy a £220 pspGo, they'd probably also be interested in getting a 16gb Touch as they are around the same price!

  • IP #111 3 years ago

    In the current climate, if you only look at hardware, then the DS is the lowest entry-point for mobile gaming. However, it is also effectively a last-gen product - the DSi is clearly where Nintendo's focus lies now. As for the PSP, the slim's around £130-£140, so about the same as Apple's cheapest.

    Of course, once you start taking into account the price of the games, Apple jumps ahead pretty quickly, even when you compare a DS with an iPod. On the NDS, you can get new games at bargain prices from the likes of Amazon, but the cheapest typically clock in around £10 - maybe £8 for stock dumps. On iPod, primarily due to the distribution model, that would be the high-end for games (apps, on the other hand, being anything up to £60 at the moment).

    From a pure value standpoint, the people who don't see the value proposition from the iPod touch appear to be the ones who never buy games and instead choose to copy them. (And while it is possible to jailbreak an iPod and load cracked software, only a complete and utter tosspot arsehole would rip-off some indie dev's 59p iPod game.)