Apple "so far ahead" with digital platform

By Robert Purchese Published 21 April, 2009

Rivals will need to act quick - Rolando man.

Rolando creator Simon Oliver reckons Apple's App Store for iPhone and iPod Touch is "so far ahead" that rivals Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft will have to react quickly or risk being left behind.

"The thing about the iPhone is that the distribution is phenomenally good as well - the cut that Apple takes is great, and is so streamlined. You compare it to WiiWare, or even XBLA, it's such a streamlined process. You can do it via computer, via your phone, it's very easy and the automatic updating system is just fantastic," Oliver told GamesIndustry.biz.

"Nowadays, I think there's a certain amount of response from guys like Sony and Nintendo to this, and there are rumours of what's going to be on PSP 2 in terms of digital downloads, plus there's the DSi and DSWare, WiiWare, etc.

"But I think Apple's placed so far ahead that there's going to have to be a rapid reaction from the others - just in terms of the sheer amount of the content that's produced," he said. "Obviously there's not the same level of quality control that you get on XBLA or WiiWare, but I think you'll get so many more interesting games on the iPhone because the barrier to entry is so unbelievably low."

The fallout of this emerging competition to DS and PSP, Oliver argued, will push each company down different avenues in search of the winning formula.

Oliver went on to reveal that he looked at XNA and PC development platforms for Rolando, but had his mind made up when Apple announced the iPhone SDK, which anybody could use and cost just USD 99.

"All these people with ideas, people that have been wanting to make games for years - like me - they can finally realise that idea and get it out there," he said.

Another key selling point for Oliver is that the App Store is "infinitely large", meaning Apple doesn't have to remove smaller games to make way for the big hitters.

"Obviously there's a certain amount of space in which they can showcase products, but I think due to the nature of the way that digital distribution works now, it means that the effect of people picking up on a unique and interesting game, once it catches on it has the ability to go absolutely huge via word of mouth, blogs, social media - people can discover things, and they can be a wild success," added Oliver.

"A lot of games that people are developing, they're not necessarily doing it to make loads of money - they're doing it to share their content. In the indie scene the process of creating and sharing is just as important as financial success. There will always be people doing interesting things out there, even if they don't become million-selling games."

Rolando publisher Ngmoco confirmed two sequels for Rolando when speaking at the Game Developers Conference in March. Rolando 2 will arrive in June and Rolando 3 is planned for November. Meanwhile, in between, we'll be treated to more free Rolando levels.

Rolando was released at the beginning of the year and looks a bit like LocoRoco - proving that iPhone games can compare to the best on DS and PSP. Head over to our Rolando review for an in-depth analysis.

Alternatively, head over to GamesIndustry.biz for the full interview with Simon Oliver, in which he talks about taking an idea from brain to the App Store.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (61) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • mcbi4kh2 #1 3 years ago

    proving that iPhone games can compare to the best on DS and PS

    I wouldn'y say rolando comes anywhere near to being as good as GTA:CW or GOW:COO. Its not bad when I'm on the commute and have nothing better to do, but I certainly wouldn't play it at home.
    Edited by 1 at 21/04/09 @ 11:34

  • Sunyavadin #2 3 years ago

    Apple have never been ahead on anything. They just rip shit off, producing substandard versions of what others are making, and charging ten times the price.


    Good business strategyas long as they keep pumping millions into aggressive marketing of their products, but as macs proved back in the late 90s, the moment your marketing fails, people abandon your products for the better alternatives in droves....

  • Eraysor #3 3 years ago

    I certainly don't see why Apple's method is any more streamlined than PSN (XBLA possibly, due to Microsoft's insistence on using its magical invisible currency) and there certainly aren't any excellent full-sized iPhone games that even remotely compare to DS/PSP games.

  • Venkman90 #4 3 years ago

    Show me anything like Disgaea on the iphone, or anything that isnt a simple flash game frankly.

    I agree their distribution method is good and I see why devs love it (cheap to make, low but constant returns, high userbase they can use to market their products to) but fo actual gaming on the go its currently shit imho.

  • Red-Moose #5 3 years ago

    "We have 2% market share, and our phone technology is 18 months behind.....WE IZ MARKIT LEEDERS"

  • skillian #6 3 years ago

    Surely, the App Store is basically just a web page from which you can download software.

    OK, I have never used it so I'm probably not the right person to criticise, but it doesn't seem like anything that amazing :/

    edit: OK, I guess the innovation comes from the fact that no handheld or phone has really had such a website to use, but really this isn't some amazing invention. I think EG are guilty of parroting the hype a bit - saying it porves iPhone can compete with the best of the DS and PSP sounds like a line from an Apple press release, not a news story from an independent website.
    Edited by 1 at 21/04/09 @ 11:54

  • DFawkes #7 3 years ago

    It's not a gaming platform. It's something you can happen to buy games for, like any mobile phone.

  • DrDamn #8 3 years ago

    @Sunyavadin
    "Apple have never been ahead on anything."

    Right, so all the other phone manufacturers haven't desperately been trying to put out iPhone copies and definitely aren't playing catch-up with the AppStore then?

  • DrDamn #9 3 years ago

    @Skillian
    It is essentially, but it's the breadth of content it provides and the ease with which it provides it. They make it very sasy to find software, download, install and crucially keep it up to date. So if you visit the AppStore again it checks for updates on all the apps you have installed. It's just a breeze for customers to use and therefore popular and great for devs.

  • kangarootoo #10 3 years ago

    "Apple have never been ahead on anything. They just rip shit off, producing substandard versions of what others are making, and charging ten times the price.


    Good business strategy as long as they keep pumping millions into aggressive marketing of their products, but as macs proved back in the late 90s, the moment your marketing fails, people abandon your products for the better alternatives in droves...."


    /sigh

    All of this seems to utterly ignore the massive success Apple has had with several of its product lines. The iMac and iPod can't be simply dismissed.

    And the Apple of the 90s was barely even the same company. Back then their business strategy was poor, but now it is red hot.

    I am inclined to dismiss your comment simply as anti-Apply fanboy rhetoric, unless you have something more substantial to explain why their massive bank balance is not a good indicator of very good business planning and a strong understanding of the industry.



    On a more general note, a question aimed at everybody, what part of Apple's setup is NOT very well streamlined? We seem to be talking about the quality of their products, or whether they make "real games", and even doing funny little impressions of how they talk.... but I am puzzled as to what that has to do with the article in question.

    I'm not particularly an Apple fan. I don't own any of their PC or phone stuff. But by God if a thread like this won't bring out the devil's advocate in me. All I can see from up here on my high horse is a bunch of anti-Apple zealots calling them playground names when faced with the suggestion that they might be getting things right in lots of ways.

  • jonsaan #11 3 years ago

    If any of you lot don't want your Ipod touches. Feel free to send them my way. Ta.

  • peterfll #12 3 years ago

    Quick question though... isn't one of the biggest problems of the App Store that the content can become buried and difficult to find?

  • Dan234 #13 3 years ago

    They might be ahead of other phone manufacturers in having a centralised app store, but surely they're last if you're grouping Apple with the console manufacturers?

    To be honest I'm not sure if I want any old crap up on XBLA/PSN/WiiWare/DSiWare.

  • sneetch #14 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo
    I'm not particularly an Apple fan. I don't own any of their PC or phone stuff. But by God if a thread like this won't bring out the devil's advocate in me. All I can see from up here on my high horse is a bunch of anti-Apple zealots calling them playground names when faced with the suggestion that they might be getting things right in lots of ways

    A bunch of anti-Apple zealots? Funny I see 9 posts before yours, you sure your eyesight is OK, kanga? ;)

    You see anti-Apple zealots, I see a bunch of people who think the Emperor is butt-naked. And one or two anti-Apple zealots.

    Apple is fine, they trade a lot on their "cool" and that's also fine, it's obviously working for them. However, I don't own or intend to purchase an iPhone or iPod any time soon mainly because I think the phone itself is a bit pants at the moment and my own phone kicks the crap out of it in many ways (I bought a Sony-Ericsson C905 recently, mostly because of the camera; I'm sick of forgetting my camera for family stuff, but it's a great media player too, 16GB and plays all formats).

    Also iTunes is the work of the devil (it's a seriously clunky app on Windows, I don't understand why they didn't Windows-ise it a bit more).

  • Domovoi #15 3 years ago

    Oliver went on to reveal that he looked at XNA and PC development platforms for Rolando, but had his mind made up when Apple announced the iPhone SDK, which anybody could use and cost just USD 99.

    Except, of course, that XNA is also a platform 'anybody could use', and also costs just USD99 to get your games on the marketplace. Oh, and it's available for free.

  • Fab4 #16 3 years ago

    I also have a C905...also bought for the camera :)

    And yes, iTunes (the app, not the store) is the work of the devil, as is iPhoto.

  • skillian #17 3 years ago

    It is essentially, but it's the breadth of content it provides and the ease with which it provides it. They make it very sasy to find software, download, install and crucially keep it up to date. So if you visit the AppStore again it checks for updates on all the apps you have installed. It's just a breeze for customers to use and therefore popular and great for devs.

    Well, none of that seems very different to other digital download services to be honest.

    The best thing about it by far is it's accessibility for devs both professional and amateur, and that is a pretty big step forward. But then you look at Android marketplace where applications don't have to be pre-approved and the App Store seems second best (for me anyway, I know not everyone wants an open system).

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #18 3 years ago

    I think that some of you are missing the point. It's not about games that are Fallout 3 in size, it's about 3 key things:

    a) An installed user base of 30 million iPhones and iPod Touchs
    b) A seemless system for buying new content a low prices that's intrinsically tied to the device
    c) Developers getting paid from day one sales and at an excellent percentage

    So you got a captive audience being offered content at a reasonable price with most of the cash going directly to developers.

    That is what makes if different.

  • JohnnyWashnGo #19 3 years ago

    Apple can stay quite far ahead with regard to digital provision of gaming content for what its worth.

    I know that everybody who is anybody is saying that physical media is soon to be consigned to history but in my opinion, I think that digitally downloading games software is never going to be as good, reliable, cheap and future proof as having the software on something phsyical.

    Having a cartridge or disc or whatever containing the game software guarantees that I can play it anytime I like from the day of purchase 'til the day I die (on the understanding that the hardware doesn't break down of course). I cannot say the same about any of the current crop of digital stores for any of the consoles out now. Who the hell trusts Sony to still be providing the PSN games you bought last year in, say, 20 years time? When have you ever seen a digital version of a game get reduced to a price you cannot resist due to shops competing against each other for custom? If anything, a purely digital distibution service creates a monopoly where prices will never change because there is no competitionn :(

  • schnide #20 3 years ago

    I don't have an iPod touch but it all seems pretty good to me. We're talking about a massively successful distribution method for gaming on the go, so it looks like it's been a great success. I like the fact that a corporation so huge has embraced a relatively low-barriered development model while the usual suspects are still trying (and justifiably in some sense) to rigously control what goes on their service.

  • miiiguel #21 3 years ago

    "If anything, a purely digital distibution service creates a monopoly where prices will never change because there is no competitionn "

    That last one is not true, and even in these early days you already have discounts in Live. The ability to run old software is also a tricky buisness, nowdays maintaining legacy systems is a major pain in buisness and soon will be in home entertainment.
    I can't run my Sepccy games no more, that thing doesn't even power on.
    Edited by 2 at 21/04/09 @ 13:06

  • kangarootoo #22 3 years ago

    @sneetch

    When I see an article about Apple's delivery service responded to with comments about their games, phone technology and "markit leeders" I see anti-Apple zealots, yes.

    And I'm not sure what constitutes "a bunch" in your book. A bunch of bananas might only have 4 bananas in it. In any case, I didn't realise the term was so clearly defined. If I am misusing the scientific definition of "a bunch" then I apologise.


    Anyway, enough of the toys flinging for both of us.

    "Apple is fine, they trade a lot on their "cool" and that's also fine, it's obviously working for them."

    Exactly.

    "However, I don't own or intend to purchase an iPhone or iPod any time soon mainly because I think the phone itself is a bit pants at the moment and my own phone kicks the crap out of it in many ways"

    And this is also fine. But it highlights exactly my point. The article was not about the quality of their phones, it was about the proficiency of their content delivery system. And faced with their content delivery system being one of the best going, it seemed to me that the anti-Apple commentators among us decided that attacking other aspects of Apple was a fair way to respond.

    It like saying "well yes you can run faster than me, but you haircut is shit". It might be fair comment, but it wouldn't hold much sway with the coach of the cross country team. Is that really the way we want the discussion to go?


    If someone can find glaring fault in Apple's content delivery system, THEN I might be interested and will respond in a less know-it-all way :)

    "Also iTunes is the work of the devil (it's a seriously clunky app on Windows, I don't understand why they didn't Windows-ise it a bit more). "

    This is a step in the right direction. Please expand.

  • Redeye #23 3 years ago

    People might have a grudge against Apple; for what reasons, I don't know, don't care, and won't even bother to hypothesise. However, the fact remains that Apple have hit the nail squarely on the head when it comes to content accessibility and delivery, and it is going to take some going by rivals to come anywhere near, let alone catch up.

    And Pac-man ate my wife: +1. Absolutely spot-on.

  • JahB #24 3 years ago

    isn't rolando that blatant LocoRoco rip-off?
    Edited by 1 at 21/04/09 @ 13:31

  • Xerx3s #25 3 years ago

    Just curious, how exactly is apples system beating ms's or even sony's system for that matter?

    I mean, just looking at some of his comments, they are the standard "we are doing less or the same but just shout very loudly that we are better" apple comments.

    "The thing about the iPhone is that the distribution is phenomenally good as well - the cut that Apple takes is great, and is so streamlined. You compare it to WiiWare, or even XBLA, it's such a streamlined process. You can do it via computer, via your phone, it's very easy and the automatic updating system is just fantastic,"

    Yes, both psn and xblm can be accessed from their devices and the pc. Next.

    "But I think Apple's placed so far ahead that there's going to have to be a rapid reaction from the others - just in terms of the sheer amount of the content that's produced," he said. "Obviously there's not the same level of quality control that you get on XBLA or WiiWare, but I think you'll get so many more interesting games on the iPhone because the barrier to entry is so unbelievably low."

    Either name some figures or don't name it at all. I highly doubt it's even in the neighbourhood. As for that barrier: XBLcg? Every time I look there's been a fuckload produced and the barrier on that is most certainly much lower than developing on the iphone.

    "Oliver went on to reveal that he looked at XNA and PC development platforms for Rolando, but had his mind made up when Apple announced the iPhone SDK, which anybody could use and cost just USD 99."

    So he didn't look at all then? Otherwise he would have realised that the price from XNA is 0 to 99$.

    "Another key selling point for Oliver is that the App Store is "infinitely large", meaning Apple doesn't have to remove smaller games to make way for the big hitters."

    Another bs point. PSN has never removed a title and while XBLa has the option, I don't think they ever did. Even so, a title will always remain available once bought.

  • CannonAnBall #26 3 years ago

    Wow, people get a bit wound up with Apple don't they?!!

  • MightyMouse #27 3 years ago

    The delivery system is the best there is currently imo, no doubt about it. Apple have a lot of the crowd brought into gaming by the DS though so for a games manufacturer to put all their eggs in the apple basket could be risky if they want to make things more traditionally associated with consoles.

    It's the same as the Wii, say. Sure the install base may be huge but that doesn't mean you necessarily want to develop simply with it in mind.

  • jonbwfc #28 3 years ago

    @Xerxes
    "Just curious, how exactly is apples system beating ms's or even sony's system for that matter? "
    Neither of them are on a phone with always on access that's in 30 million pockets for one. If you 're a developer that's looking to sell your software, that's a pretty huge plus. PSN Store access on the PSP (or the new DSi store ) is a near shot, but both of them rely on you being inside a wifi footprint. The iPhone app store is accessible pretty much 24/7 where ever you are. If you're targeting the casual market with a game that will cost a couple of quid (so you need volume to make profit), that's going to make a big sodding difference to your takings.

    Jon

  • Xerx3s #29 3 years ago

    "The delivery system is the best there is currently imo, no doubt about it."

    I keep hearing the apple fans saying this (about pretty much everything apple really) but I never hear why. Why is it the best?

  • CannonAnBall #30 3 years ago

    From the years I've spent using Apple products and having witnessed friends and family using the Apple technology, three words spring to mind:

    Ease of use

    Honestly, people who use my computer, having used PCs, are thrown by how simple it all is. My priority is getting things done with minimum fuss. I can't afford to fuck about which I previously did with the PCs I owned. I expect to be shot down a little but I can only speak from my experience.

  • Xerx3s #31 3 years ago

    "Neither of them are on a phone with always on access that's in 30 million pockets for one. If you 're a developer that's looking to sell your software, that's a pretty huge plus."

    Like none of the apps are on the 30 million 360's? Or the soon to reach 30 million ps3's? Or the gazillion wii's? Let alone other platforms that still outnumber it by a megaton as well.

    Sorry but the entire argument is just shaky at best.
    Edited by 1 at 21/04/09 @ 14:07

  • smoothn00dle #32 3 years ago

    who is this guy? another marketing dude..

    I don't think they have idea of how strong PSP and DS are! Game price > 40 dollars, 99 percent sold on PSP and DS. Iphone has short battery life, not suitable for long term play and most of the game on IPhone is free, pay by adv.

    Iphone has no first party developer that create games for IPHone exclusive. Sony and Nintendo game studios are in a class of it own.

  • DrDamn #33 3 years ago

    @Xerx3s
    Accessibility and price are big things in it's favour. It works really well and is designed really well. The interface encourages use where the NXE 360 interface keeps encouraging me to put my foot through the TV every time I use it - it's a mess of design. (Very feature rich but very crap to use).

    It's a hard thing to explain without people thinking "pfft that's obvious, everyone does that already!" - but it's only obvious when you think it through properly or with hindsight. It all makes a big difference though. Look at the sheer number of apps available and how many get downloaded and used - it is obvious from that they have clearly done something very well.

    Small example I already mentioned above. Every time you go to the AppStore it checks whether there are updates for all your Apps quickly and effectively. Simple and small idea. Everyone else does this by checking when you start apps up. The complete check for all apps is much more useful though. It effectively lets you know about updates which may bring you back to apps which you had stopped using.

    The frequency of the updates to apps is also very good - much more so than alternatives - devs listen to feedback (which you can give through the AppStore) and update their software to get better reviews and more sales.

    One final big factor is cost. Thousands of apps are free, loads more are priced sensibly at around £1. This makes a huge difference to what people put out and what you end up buying.

  • Goffee #34 3 years ago

    Jeez, hope Apple isn't about to release a games console, the level of bitchiness would force most sane folk to leave the web altogether

  • GreyScale #35 3 years ago

    who is this guy? another marketing dude..

    I don't think they have idea of how strong PSP and DS are! Game price > 40 dollars, 99 percent sold on PSP and DS. Iphone has short battery life, not suitable for long term play and most of the game on IPhone is free, pay by adv.

    Iphone has no first party developer that create games for IPHone exclusive. Sony and Nintendo game studios are in a class of it own.

    Wut. iPhone games are mostly < 5 dollars, never mind 40. My iPhone battery lasts twice as long as my PSP and DS. Plus 90% of iPhone games are exclusives, possibly due to the unique control method.
    Edited by 2 at 21/04/09 @ 14:41

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #36 3 years ago

    The fanboyism in this thread is worse than Wii related articles!

    It's really very simple.

    The iPhone makes it really, really easy to buy cheap games wherever you are. Developers get paid.

    Wiiware doesn't, DSi Software doesn't, XBLA doesn't, PSN doesn't. They have things like points, living-room based consoles, wifi hotspots, crap navigation and more that get in the way. That's before arcane repayment structures (such as Nintendo's) punishing developers.

    Edited by 1 at 21/04/09 @ 14:59

  • Dan234 #37 3 years ago

    @GreyScale

    Plus 90% of iPhone games are exclusives, possibly due to the unique control method.

    Um, why's that a strength for the iPhone but a weakness for the Wii?

  • hiddenranbir #38 3 years ago

    Sort out your Quality Control please.

  • Freek #39 3 years ago

    A bit odd to compare a phone designed for quick and cheap gaming experiences with the console and PC platforms designed for more expensive and involving gaming experiences.
    They offer different opportunities and limitations to developers, depending on the kind of game you want to make you'll choose the platform that suits your needs best. But to claim one is superior above all others is silly considering the vastly different things they offer.

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #40 3 years ago

    @ Freek

    It's about the distribution model, not about the quality of the hardware.
    Edited by 1 at 21/04/09 @ 15:38

  • GreyScale #41 3 years ago

    Um, why's that a strength for the iPhone but a weakness for the Wii?
    Didn't say it was a strength or a weakness, was just responding to the claim that Sony and Nintendo are better because they create first-party exclusives.

    but now you mention it...Wii shovelware might be a strength if all those cruddy games cost from free to 60p to £3.50 like the iPhone, but as most of them actually cost between £20 and £40 its a slightly different matter...

  • skillian #42 3 years ago

    A bit odd to compare a phone designed for quick and cheap gaming experiences with the console and PC platforms designed for more expensive and involving gaming experiences.

    That's the way I see it too, but some people think the iPhone is a huge step in the gaming industry and will compete directly with handhelds and consoles.

    As our discussion concluded the other day, no-one really knows who is right yet so we will have to wait and see...

  • Emth #43 3 years ago

    Just to respond to snarky comments comparing the game size/quality vs the DS and the PSP.

    Firstly, DS and PSP games don't cost £3.

    Secondly, the app store does the style of portable gaming that a lot of people want. I was chuffed when I heard Disgaea was coming out on PSP, but frankly it just doesn't seem to work in pratice for most peoples lives. The fact is most hardcore gaming sessions are going to be at home where I'll be playing on my PS3 instead. It's easy to dismiss games like geoDefense, Flight Control, Rolando, WordFu and Trism, but these are ideal portable gaming experiences in my view.

    In regards to people saying nothing on the iPhone compares to China Town Wars or God of War, I'm not bloody surprised, the app store has been out for less than a year. Let's think back to what the DS and PSP catalogues were like when the consoles had been out for that amount of time.

    A large number of the good games on the app store at the moment are indie projects, often created from scratch by a single person. Realistically this is the only way these people would have been able to bring their games to people, and some of them are pretty damn good. The app store has probably done more for indie devs than Sony or Microsoft have ever done, and I fail to see how that can be a bad thing.

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #44 3 years ago

    Of course it'll complete directly.

    All those people who bought a DS for Brain Training and Nintendogs can be easily pulled away from the platform. I amazed the
    intransigence of people of this forum. If something doesn't fit into their narrow definitions of what a game/console is it's immediately dismissed as unimportant or considered not worthy of serious consideration and they won't even begin to entertain the idea that it might be actually be fun.

  • UncleLou #45 3 years ago

    Said it the other day, I'll say it again:

    I have a phat DS and a DS Lite, and about 30 games. I've not bought a single one since I bought a Touch 18 months ago, but bought tons of games in the Appstore.

    There you have it. Direct competition.

  • skillian #46 3 years ago

    PMAMW, the large majority of people playing nintendogs are kids. If they want to play games on iPhone they'll have to wait another ten years and then pass a credit check.

    But I've already given up on this debate once, and kanga will get annoyed if we go off-topic again ;)

    edit: Again though, I love the idea that small developers and guys coding in their bedrooms can easily(?) get their stuff on the app store. For me that's what games and software are all about, and many of the best ideas come from that direction.
    Edited by 1 at 21/04/09 @ 16:09

  • UncleLou #47 3 years ago

    Sort out your Quality Control please.

    No, please don't. There's little I dislike more about the console gaming model than the control of the platform holder. Let the market regulate that, not the platform holder. There's eough reviews, and a star rating system, and videos, and whatnot. I don't need to be patronised by Apple.

    Unless you mean just technical control. Don't know enough about how Apple handles this, other than that it seems a little slow at times till a new version gets the approval.

  • sneetch #48 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo
    @sneetch

    When I see an article about Apple's delivery service responded to with comments about their games, phone technology and "markit leeders" I see anti-Apple zealots, yes.

    And I'm not sure what constitutes "a bunch" in your book. A bunch of bananas might only have 4 bananas in it. In any case, I didn't realise the term was so clearly defined. If I am misusing the scientific definition of "a bunch" then I apologise.


    Anyway, enough of the toys flinging for both of us.

    You're right, of course, that it isn't a precisely defined term however when it's applied to people it usually means a "considerable amount" (I know, considerable is also poorly defined) of those 9 posts there were only two posts that I would say were from "anti-Apple zealots" which I wouldn't say is a "bunch" (YMMV). For example, I'd go one person, a couple of people, a few, a bunch.

    Not a precise term though, no.

    "However, I don't own or intend to purchase an iPhone or iPod any time soon mainly because I think the phone itself is a bit pants at the moment and my own phone kicks the crap out of it in many ways"

    And this is also fine. But it highlights exactly my point. The article was not about the quality of their phones, it was about the proficiency of their content delivery system. And faced with their content delivery system being one of the best going, it seemed to me that the anti-Apple commentators among us decided that attacking other aspects of Apple was a fair way to respond.

    It like saying "well yes you can run faster than me, but you haircut is shit". It might be fair comment, but it wouldn't hold much sway with the coach of the cross country team. Is that really the way we want the discussion to go?

    Yeah, I see what you mean. However, my comment wasn't about the article, it was about your comment, I was just stating my position on the whole thing at the start: I don't have any Apple products either but like you I think they're fine. I'm playing Devil's Advocate as well. I agree that Apple are fine just not for me so I'm not an anti-Apple zealot.

    However, to address the article, I'm a little sceptical when "Rolando man" starts raving about great features when many of those great features are old hat and already on, say, Live or Steam. For example "You can do it via computer, via your phone [i.e. console], it's very easy and the automatic updating system is just fantastic," now those are great features but not really "far ahead" as they already exist in Live's case. In fact, just to be pedantic: I can buy a Live game from my PC, my console and my phone (all three of which are "computers";): all I need is a browser (or my Xbox).

    I get the feeling that these things are new and innovative to "Rolando man" so he assumes they must be new to the rest of us. He's displaying his ignorance of the situation more than anything. "Another key selling point for Oliver is that the App Store is "infinitely large", meaning Apple doesn't have to remove smaller games to make way for the big hitters." is he familiar with digital methods of distribution at all? Does he think there's a limited amount of "shelf-space" on Live? (I know they were planning on removing old/poor selling games but didn't in the end, IIRC).

    If someone can find glaring fault in Apple's content delivery system, THEN I might be interested and will respond in a less know-it-all way :)

    "Also iTunes is the work of the devil (it's a seriously clunky app on Windows, I don't understand why they didn't Windows-ise it a bit more). "

    This is a step in the right direction. Please expand.

    Well, for a start it violates the look and feel (which sounds more dramatic/anal than I intended it to) of Windows and it just doesn't fit: one of the big "sells" of windowing systems is the standardisation of keys, menus and the way applications operate, back in the dawn of time (i.e. the 70's/80's) every app did things its own way which meant you had a learning curve with every app. Apple apps on Windows operate in the Mac standard fashion not the Windows one. This means things like no right-click menus, non-standard hotkeys, that kind of thing, it just doesn't work like a Windows app. This makes it "clunky", IMO and is as "bad" as apps like GIMP (with its Linux/UNIXisms).

    As a simple example Windows applications tend to use Alt-Enter to go to full screen (although Firefox just made a liar out of me there), Apple QuickTime uses a different method (but I can't remember what and I don't have it installed at work).

    Plus it had some severe stability issues before, probably sorted out by now and it runs sneaky services on my PC at home. Perhaps it's better now, maybe it's like a native Windows app now, I notice you no longer have to download it to get QuickTime (a practice I hate; I don't want iTunes I only want QuickTime but I have to install both).

    PS You're no longer invited to my birthday party. There will be a bouncy castle and face painting. And you can't come. So there. And I want my Action Man back.
    Edited by 2 at 21/04/09 @ 17:19

  • wired009 #49 3 years ago

    If you have ever used an iPhone or talked with people who use it a lot, you would realize how right Simon Oliver is. There is a really great library of applications that have sprung up in a very short amount of time that continues to grow at an amazing pace. It's a mixture of fun and practical apps that you don't normally find on any other portable device. Apple is very far ahead in the success of the adoption of their platform (to be clear, that would be mainstream smartphone) and developer and user support for it.

  • untitled #50 3 years ago

    Oh so it was the Rolando guy?
    I thought this article was about that chap who was ex SCEE.... just seems to be a lot of em about these days saying the same thing.

    For the ones complaining about the quality of the games (although not really related to this article). Guys, the games are like £3. Something tells me though with the new 3.0 software update giving access to the dock connector, we're going to see a load of peripherals d-pad/analogue stick type controllers coming out for it, leading to a burst of real high quality games being developed for the platform. But then this will only really work if Apple can get big developers like Konami, Square Enix, Sega, Capcom, EA and the like to develop for it...

  • kangarootoo #51 3 years ago

    @sneetch

    /snaps head off Action Man, knowing sneetch can see me do it

    All good points dude. I don't think we really disagree about some of the issues iTunes has. My point was really just about some of the grumpy comments that felt attacking Apple was more important than saying something relevant or interesting.


    I think its not unreasonable to assume that Rolando man represent the majority of the public. One of the great strengths that the iPhone has is that it... well, ITS A PHONE :) Most of the people that bought it didn't buy it for the same reasons they might buy a 360 or PS3. And yet that have a delivery system that gives THEM pretty much exactly what they want, wherever they are, and for all sorts of purposes (the 360 doesn't have an app that tells me where I left my car, and the PSN store has nothing on helping me organise my finances).

    Anyway, we are splitting hairs really. And I hope you are allergic to the face paint and get a rash that makes your head swell up.

  • Les #52 3 years ago

    Is this news?! How often does it happen that Apple is not 'so far ahead'... ;)

  • redgiemental #53 3 years ago

    Funny iTunes has had right-clicking for as long as I can remember........even on my Mac

  • BradlayLaw #54 3 years ago

    You know what I love about the app store - the instant gratification, anywhere, anytime.

    Last weekend I was out on a bike ride, I stopped to have a wee rest, saw someone recommend an iPhone game on twitter via twitterfon, 10 seconds later I was on the app store seeing it was £1.79. 10 seconds later I was playing it

  • Scoops #55 3 years ago

    It is a combination of things that has made the iPhone/Touch the success it is in such a short space of time. The delivery system is one of them for the reasons already stated by many posters already. The developers and consumers have made equal use of that delivery system to push the market forward to what it is today. The (mildly) interesting thing about the whole phenomena is that Apple never pushed or sold it as a gaming platform - games have never been on their priority list apart from now and again when they make the odd noise but never commit to anything.

    The whole game market has been a result of developer, er.. developing what they fancy and consumers buying them. It just so happens games are doing rather well so more games come out which are bought and so on and so on... Meanwhile Apple have realised that games are rather important to the platform so promote them specifically now and again but even so, the majority of apps they advertise aren't games either.

    The biggest problem with the delivery system is the pure number of apps and iTunes acting like a bottleneck. Sure you can find it all but there are just so many of the buggers it is hard to keep up (regardless of the type of app you are looking for).

  • Redeye #56 3 years ago

    untitled - "But then this will only really work if Apple can get big developers like Konami, Square Enix, Sega, Capcom, EA and the like to develop for it..."

    As far as I'm aware, Konami, Sega, EA (and from what I can gather, Capcom too) have developed, or are in the process of developing Apple product. Not heard anything about Squeenix, but I can't see them not doing something (even if it's just some ker-azy FF tie-in schtick).
    Edited by 1 at 22/04/09 @ 00:07

  • sneetch #57 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo
    /snaps head off Action Man, knowing sneetch can see me do it

    :o
    :(
    :|
    >:(

    Kanga likes Barbie!

  • sneetch #58 3 years ago

    @redgiemental
    Funny iTunes has had right-clicking for as long as I can remember........even on my Mac

    Yeah, I just checked and you're right. Talking through me arse there.

  • kangarootoo #59 3 years ago

    "But then this will only really work if..."

    This IS working, right now.


    "Last weekend I was out on a bike ride, I stopped to have a wee rest, saw someone recommend an iPhone game on twitter via twitterfon, 10 seconds later I was on the app store seeing it was £1.79. 10 seconds later I was playing it"

    Great summary of what it is really all about.

  • kangarootoo #60 3 years ago

    Just found some stuff on the Apple website about their app store, some of which is interesting when compared to the way that Sony, MS and Nintendo do things.

    They have had nearly 1 billion apps downloaded from the store.
    Each developer picks their own price, simple as that.
    Each developer gets 70% of the cash from each sale.
    many apps are approved for the store 7 days after they have been submitted.

    THAT is a system that is very different from PSN Store or XBLM, from a developer's standpoint at any rate.

  • kangarootoo #61 3 years ago

    This is the source.
    http://st ream.qtv.apple.com/events/mar/0...