Gears 3 story won't "please everybody"

Traviss: "You can't tie up everything."

Those looking for all the various strands of the Gears of War story to be neatly tied up in the latest installment of Epic's franchise might come away disappointed.

The game's writer Karen Traviss told Eurogamer this week that leaving a few threads hanging is all part of the fun.

"You're never going to please everybody," she said. "You're always going to have the people that want to do a fact sheet on Wikipedia with everything answered. You're never going to get that.

"I come from a background where a series with things left unanswered is part of the joy of it. They may never be answered, I don't know. But you can't tie up everything. There are some things that we know but the characters don't know yet - and may never know."

However, she insisted there's a "definite end to the story" and that players can expect "a definite answer".

"I hope at the end of it people will sit back and say, now I understand it and it wasn't all black and white. There's some really mucky stuff in there."

The Xbox 360 exclusive finally arrived in UK stores yesterday. For more on what to expect, glance over Eurogamer's Gears of War 3 review.

Comments (52) Latest comment 8 months ago

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  • Zaxlor #1 8 months ago

    It's certainly not pleasing me :(

    Rented the game on Tuesday and i think i'm at chapter 2. Throughly bored with how bland the story is, along with the gameplay. The characters are just as dull as they've ever been, with Dom doing the constant "Oh, i'm so depressed about my wife - oh look a penny!" and the terrible stereotype that's Coletrain. The bit where he goes on about food coupons almost had me bite my knuckle.

    Just done a section where Baird shouts out "Oh look, here comes the reinforcements, how predictable" and that's just how i feel. Sure, it looks pretty, but the story is so pointless. It's just nice looking, beautifully designed areas filled with bland enemys along with bland characters that lead to no-where. Even the entire first chapter is just one giant fetch quest.

    Glad i only rented it now.
    Edited by Zaxlor at 21/09/11 @ 20:22
  • Alcock #2 8 months ago

    Nothing says "crap story" more than the writer defending it.
  • Breach #3 8 months ago

    I only played half of Gears 1, have not tried 2.

    It didn't realise there was a good story in there too.

    Seemed like an okay shooter but nothing more.
    Edited by Breach at 21/09/11 @ 20:20
  • DigitalScars #4 8 months ago

    Didn't please me at all, i understand that you can't answer everything and it's fun to leave some questions still out there but for me personally not explaining why Queen locust was part human and part locust and all the others were full on locusts was very dissappointing.

    I'd been waiting since Gears 2 hoping for some explanation and wondering if my own theories were correct or even close and then comes Gears 3 and just completely overlooks it.

    I'll look forward to Epic wanting to charge me 2000+ microsoft points in the near future for some weak dlc content that no doubt explains some things that should have been in the finished game considering it's the "conclusion to the epic trilogy"
  • SeesThroughAll #5 8 months ago

    There's some really mucky stuff in there.

    Hmmmmm...
  • captainrentboy #6 8 months ago

    I'm on Act 2-Chap 2 and have really enjoyed it so far.
    Although, if anything, the constant huge and intense firefights have left me slightly drained. I thought this one was supposed to have a slower pace? :/
    The graphics are fantastic, especially the lighting and smoke effects.
    The only downer is Dom's voice acting seems slightly 'off', compared to the rest of the cast.
  • altitude2k #7 8 months ago

    I loved the story. The end was a satisfying conclusion.
  • Bravestinsane #8 8 months ago

    You can tie up everything, you just want to milk it
    Edited by Bravestinsane at 21/09/11 @ 21:02
  • funkateer #9 8 months ago

    Leaving things unanswered is one thing, but that can only be 'fun' if those 'things' are interesting to begin with.
    But hey, having just played some time at a friend's house, I think the game is fantastic and a real looker. Clearly a game of the year contender. But the story and characterisation was clearly not a priority (which seems somehow fitting on the whole).
  • meerkat23 #10 8 months ago

    @zaxlor I will always love the coletrain. Because of terry tate office linebacker. He is less of an obvious stereotype when you see those videos.
  • Wilky #11 8 months ago

    I'd like to see the next installment in the franchise as a launch game on next xbox as it's certainly lost the wow factor of the first gears, hopefully gears on next gen hardware will bring that wow factor back!
  • Gearskin #12 8 months ago

    The only question I want answered is "who is the queen?"

    I've beaten the game now, LOVED IT, but that's the only thing that isn't explained. She looks human. Is she human?

    I don't get it. Neither does Baird.
  • coolbritannia #13 8 months ago

    Awesome game, aside from the Queen question, hard to see what remains to be answered. I suppose there will be a reveal as to what cause immulsion to start turning things lambent at some point.

    Now to Horde!
  • landlock #14 8 months ago

    The best and most polished of the trilogy by far. Enjoying so far about to start Act 3.
  • jonc24 #15 8 months ago

    Having finished it I'd have to say that I was disappointed with the end portion/ending to the game/trilogy. I didn't feel the swell of gravitas or a rousing climax that have rounded out other franchises recently like Halo 3 or Metal Gear 4. It didn't have that fate of the world weight that they've been building towards for 3 whole games. As someone else had posted, leaving the queens backstory a mystery is a big mistake considering someone questions it during the campaign. It felt like there was another level to come when the credits rolled but I guess that's what dlc is for..... Such a shame as rest of the game is great.
  • anomagnus #16 8 months ago

    If you want story, then read. I go through 4or5 books a month for my need for proper story development, plot and characterization. I play games for over the top action, fun and enjoyment. The story in gears is fine, it does what it needs to do.

    People whining about it's story are the same type of people that buy fast food and then complain it isn't a five star meal
  • _LarZen_ #17 8 months ago

    Only a little while in Act 2 but so far color me not impressed.. The story is not any good, but that can change much over the next act's and chapters...or so I hope.

    The thing that bothers me the most is the level design, you enter a closed area that always has somehow obstacles spread over so you can take cower. And the enemy comes like clock works...same way and so predictable it's almost silly.

    But...im only on Act 2 so I hope it wil be better on the last act's and chapters....
  • jonc24 #18 8 months ago

    @anomagnus
    And what's wrong with expecting a story from a game that is selling itself on this "brothers to the end" theme. The trailers are supposed to evoke emotion ( the Gears tv trailers in particular have always had cinematic, emotional hook). I'm not expecting Shakespeare but what's wrong with looking for more than explosions etc.?

    To use your fast food analogy, when I order a BIg Mac, I expect it to come with a burger bun.
    Edited by jonc24 at 21/09/11 @ 22:57
  • BlinkeredAxis #19 8 months ago

    Gears has never been all that much about story. There was a bit about Dom's story in part 2, but not enough to spoil the reason why everyone plays Gears - It's a rock-hard cover based shooter. All three do that really well, which is by design.

    BTW, does anybody out there over 30 have trouble with Insane difficulty? I don't think unenhanced humans can do it. I certainly can't.
  • The-Jack-Burton #20 8 months ago

    Gears was never about the story, it was always about providing cutting edge gameplay mechanics, great graphics and amazing sound.

    If you want the story this is it, in its entirety:

    There are bad guys that live underground, you are a good guy, so naturally, you go underground and step on their heads. At some point you win, but the consequences to humanity are grave. The end.
  • ratmaggot #21 8 months ago

    I'm loving it. And in all honesty, if you let the story of this genre of game get you down, you should pop along to your local Art Cinema and indulge your ego a little. It's a fuckin' FPS. Now, move along, there's another white knight waiting to whine.
  • 32768Colours #22 8 months ago

    But you can't tie up everything. There are some things that we know but the characters don't know yet - and may never know.

    there's a "definite end to the story"...

    expect "a definite answer"...

    ...it wasn't all black and white.


    WTF is this idiot blabbing about?!! Is it a definite ending or one with questions left unanswered? I'm going to go with the latter, but only because the clearest message I get from this article is that the writer can't even explain their own story!

    Also, there are plenty of writers I can think of that entirely disprove the idea that "you can't tie up everything". Leaving questions unanswered can be a clever and even satisfying literary device in the right hands, but I get the distinct impression that in this instance, its more a case of the story being tacked together by committee as the games have been developed.

    Of course, its not going to effect the gameplay, I just don't like it when sloppy work is passed off as intentional.
    Edited by 32768Colours at 22/09/11 @ 00:23
  • AttroPheed #23 8 months ago

    I'm just happy that the back button skips it.
  • frazzl #24 8 months ago

    I am having a blast with it, especially the 4 player campaign co-op. Shooters typically don't have much of a story to speak of, but Gears provides more than an adequate amount to make you invested in the characters and the outcome of the series. I personally don't think there has been a better shooter series this generation. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
  • SliderNL #25 8 months ago

    BTW, does anybody out there over 30 have trouble with Insane difficulty? I don't think unenhanced humans can do it. I certainly can't.

    I'm 33 and it's indeed very hard, but there is a nce trick. Co-op with players who have set it to a lower difficulty level. They can absorb much more damage.
  • Beano #26 8 months ago

    Gears 3 is a letdown to me (so far at act 5). I loved the first two games - but Gears 3 does not live up to expectations at all.
    Nothing new game play wise and still the same annoying buddy-AI and I have experienced many bugs like disappearing enemies, repeating and overlapping dialogue lines, save game corrupt after title update, frame rate and tearing issues, etc. Nothing game breaking thought - just annoying and I expected better 3 years after Gears 2. Worst is how immature and irrelevant the writing and characters still are, and how uninspired and dull the levels feel, I feel it just keep dragging on and on and recycling the same predicable scenarios and listening to dreadful dialogue even Michael Bay would laugh at. I really hope act 5 (last act?) will offer some sort of surprise.
    EG's 8/10 review seems right on since it is a good game and hard-core fans will still love it. I hope Cliffy & co. will use their obvious talents on a new IP and give the Gears universe a break.
    Edited by Beano at 22/09/11 @ 08:25
  • benfresh76 #27 8 months ago

    Stop press: Video game has crap, badly told story shocker. In other news, alleged blueness of sky confirmed by bear defecating in woods.
  • Sodding_Gamer #28 8 months ago

    Gotta say. I'm on act 3 and I ain't impressed so far. I loved the first Gears campaign as it felt fresh. And I quite enjoyed the underground stuff in Gears 2 and especially cutting through that giant worm. That was so cool. However I have noticed the voice acting in Gears 3 sounds like they are trying to do impressions of themselves!?! If anyone knows what I mean? Does not feel natural :s Ahh well the MP makes up for it!
  • geeza2020 #29 8 months ago

    "The game's writer Karen Traviss told Eurogamer this week that leaving a few threads hanging is all part of the fun."

    Fun for the money men to look at and rub their hands in glee at the thought of further sequels and spin-offs.

  • ZizouFC #30 8 months ago

    Play it with 3 other people and you'll forget about the story because you'll be too busy having fun!
  • sfp_noodle #31 8 months ago

    I'm sorry, but as much as I love Gears of War 3 I can't defend the story one bit. The whole "emotional" arc Epic tried to take with the trailers really isn't present in the game. Not once did I feel like I was in a last stand struggle against the lambent/locust. In fact, the story in general got stupid after the original anyway. They should never have gone with the whole "emulsion lambent babies" storyline because I thought the locust were a good enough enemy anyway.

    Another thing that bothered me is the A.I. It really hasn't changed one single bit since the original which is poor IMO. I finished the game on Hardcore in SP and then on Insane in 4 player co-op. It was extremely easy on both counts with predictable enemy movement and attack patterns. So many times I'd be standing right next to a locust and he'd jut sit there trying to shoot another teammate whose a mile away with a shotgun or something. How so many reviewers failed to pick up on this is beyond me.

    It's a fun game at timesdon't get me wrong, but after halfway through on the first playthrough I just wanted it to end because the pace was just too relentless. I was bored to death during the last "boss fight." The worst part is how that prick Clify B lambasted EG after they awarded the game 8/10 saying that "it's better than Gears 2 on every level." It's more refined perhaps, but better? If I were to play the games side by side I'd struggle to see any difference apart from the fact that Gear 3 looks prettier and has a colour palette that extends beyond grey and brown.

    Having said all that though, the online is where it's really at. If you intend to play this game with friends in co-op or competetively this game will last for years. For the first time in 3 years I can finally play a Gears game where the online netcode is stable and fair. It's also bags of fun and a game that encourages teamwork and skill. Every weapon feels balanced with both plus and minus points and it feels satisfying everytime you get a kill. No weapon feels overpowered as there's always a way to defend against it. There are still some niggles mind, like the chainsaw still going off even after you've shot someone a few times but hopefully Epic will patch that quickly.

    If you just intend to finish the campaign mode it's a decent weekend popcorn rental. At first I disagreed with EG's 8/10 score but I now feel that it is more than accurate. The game mechanics feel a little stale now so I think they should leave the franchise alone and avoid any temptation to make more sequels/prequels. Great for online and co-op, kinda boring for campaign.
  • Sodding_Gamer #32 8 months ago

    @EddieMink

    That video just made my day haha! Imagine all of them going down the slide on co-op!
  • Kami #33 8 months ago

    The story is the least of their worries... the amount of badly-punny one liners in Gears 3 is starting to wind me up a tad. Technically - it's a better game. Narratively? I think they just gave up.
  • Oddly #34 8 months ago

    I've just finished it and I found the whole thing slightly disappointing. I loved the first two games but this one just seems to lack the same spark. It doesn't have the same sense of occasion to the larger beasties and so much of the rest of it is walk into room, trigger bad guys, walk into next room, repeat. There were a few bits of interesting storytelling right at the start, with the overlapping timelines, but then it gets very average.
  • GamesConnoisseur #35 8 months ago

    I m enjoying Gears 3 far more than Resistance 3, but storywise, Resistance much more personal and down to earth.

    So why?

    Simply cos when you playing games, you want intense fun, that mean lots of actions, challenging but not too easy or unforgiving, an idea of progression via story, better weaponry/skills but never too much downtime.

    That rule applies to all game, Gears 3 never will win awards in storytelling but man it's fun, don't be such a snob! Want better story? Watch a film or read a damn book! As I will never play Dickens, Brontes or such, they got great story but as a game? Both are different medium and need different pacings. As a pacing or an excuse to kill all sort of the targets, Gears story will do. Yep lot of stuff unanswered, think too much left unresolved and anticipated lot of grumblings but clearly concluded and who won.

  • Sodding_Gamer #36 8 months ago

    The very start when with dreaming flashbacks... There should of been more of that to make the story more "personal" It seems so far that they tried really hard to get you gripped, which they did and then half way through gave up on the overlapping and stuff. I mean when your trying to save your dad at the start with all the environment moving around was excellent.
  • Kami #37 8 months ago

    "That rule applies to all game, Gears 3 never will win awards in storytelling but man it's fun, don't be such a snob!"

    No, it won't. They obviously gave up trying to tie up the numerous plotlines in Gears, but it is servicable - but a lot of people did get attached to Fenix and co. and wanted something that would at least tie everything up. That's not unreasonable in this day and age , it's not snobbish at all. People got into it. People really cared about Fenix, Cole, Baird, Anya and co. And they're walking away with a conclusion, yes, but more questions than answers. And that will disappoint. Nothing snobbish about wanting to see everything resolved. Expecting a story from some games IS snobbish - I agree. Thing is, Gears TRIED to have lots of little stories going on, and it never really has any intention of answering them. That's just sloppy.

    Gears 3 is technically the best game of the three - I can play it without headaches from controls and I don't cuss too much when silly bugs happen. But it rushes desperately to a conclusion. Rush rush rush. It is technically a better game - but it feels the most shallow of the three. And that, for me, is not a tag I think Epic should be proud of.
  • GamesConnoisseur #38 8 months ago

    Kami fair point, but I didn't invest too much in the story, serviceable yep but total failure of whole game as some say?! Harsh and far too serious.

    Stories in game do got a lot better but never will be as good, or grounded in reality as other medium. Look at Uncharted series, held up as the best in the industry and I ll support this over Gears but man, how many human lives has Drake murdered and left how many widows and fatherless children over the course of the franchise?!! Stories in game doesn't hold up to stories in other medium, but can greatly help immersion by being well told, interesting and grounded in it's own way.

    In game, story give you goal, identifying with the main character and sense of progress. Some of you forget the pleasure of game is mostly through team work with actual buddies, Horde or co op campaign and that where the Gears strongest for me.
    Edited by GamesConnoisseur at 22/09/11 @ 12:18
  • Beano #39 8 months ago

    "That rule applies to all game, Gears 3 never will win awards in storytelling but man it's fun, don't be such a snob! Want better story? Watch a film or read a damn book!"

    Well, I just don't like listening to retarded characters' idiotic one-liners for 8 hours. No it's not "fun", it's lazy writing. Call me a snob.
  • Kami #40 8 months ago

    Perhaps, but this is an era GC where people want it all - they want the action, they want sympathetic characters, they want the little stories and the overarching plot, they want it to feel epic and they want it to last as well as having all the co-op, multiplayer and fragging that you can smack in at any one time.

    People are being unreasonable? Jeez, I would never have realised. For me, the most indigestible thing is the heady reliance on the one-liners now. It's starting to really grate, like a very bad attempt at humour. That's not going to mask that it's a technically great game (although I must say there have been a lot of low-res texture glitches for me so far, and I just finished defending Anvil Gate, as well as some really odd bugs like being able to walk through some walls). It just leaves me, personally, very cold. Humour is humour, doesn't need to be condensed down - funniest joke so far is Carmine getting shot and his helmet protecting him near the start of the game.

    But that's my gripe. Yes, the plot is shallow. Yes, the game rushes recklessly and carelessly to its conclusion. People will still love it, people will clamour for more Gears games to clear up plot holes the size of New Zealand. And some will moan about it, and get really annoyed about it.

    Some writers are lazy. But then, some consumers are just unreasonable... now where did I put my halo...
  • GamesConnoisseur #41 8 months ago

    Still I acknowledged that Gears 3 story just serviceable, dropping one liners just to amusing more than anything!

    There are scores of action heavy film with strong doses of puns/one liners and Gears 3 overtly macho and modelled on that type rather than The English Patient or The Titanic!

    If such juvenile fare ain't for you, then potentially rules out lot of games. I already said I m more invested in the mechanisms of the game, where it's fun as an online team shooter. Left 4 Dead ain't really got a story but it's a more acceptable game? So is the lesson drop any pretence to story or dont bother trying too hard to be amusing?

    Skipping cutscenes maybe better, most gamers after one play through, skip through all cutscenes just to carry on with the fun bits. What that say? Story just a device and not the main course. The game always is but sure I agree could have been better told/written.
  • WizenWolfBain #42 8 months ago

    I'm shocked by these comments. I loved the original Gears campaign. I fell out of love with Gears 2, because it seemed a bit more generic. But I'm thoroughly enjoying the Gears 3 campaign. I'm on act 3, and I'm loving every minute of it. The characters have a little more depth, there's humour to break the gore and violence, and there are a few shocks along the way. I liked the more emotional bits too. There's one part that sticks in my mind (without giving spoilers away), when you're walking through a nuked city, and you can see the ash corpses of adults and children, trying to escape cars, and buildings, and in some cases huddling together for cover. I thought it was touching and sad. The music does a good job of conveying emotion too, in what could've easily been another run n' gun shooter.

    I didn't buy this game with the hope of a lengthy and intricate story unfolding. I had realistic expectations. And I haven't been disappointed. This game definitely deserves a 9/10, for the balanced multiplayer and dedicated servers alone! Well done Epic.

    Edited by WizenWolfBain at 22/09/11 @ 12:39
  • Kami #43 8 months ago

    I wouldn't defend L4D's story. And juvenile doesn't always need to mean shallow - best example of this in recent years is Bayonetta. As juvenile and silly as a story can be and yet has masses of depth and complexity to its narrative. And you can argue with how polished and good that gameplay is, the story is a second fiddle - but it isn't. It co-exists and becomes as integral to the game as anything else in it.

    I'm not arguing here that we should always expect such things - that's unreasonable and I do think, bugs and glitches aside, it's a very good game (regardless of the fact the game seems to be singing "I feel witty, oh so witty, I feel witty, and pretty, and GAAAAAAAAAY!";) . But I can understand and sympathise with fans who feel a little short-changed on the story. I'll defend Dead Island to the hills, but the last act is a massive narrative plate of bull**** with a green salad.

    When you start a story, I think there's an expectation that you're going to conclude it. Gears 3 is just one of many games - New Vegas LR, Dead Island, Dragon Age 2 - to come out that just can't quite wrap up their plots in a little bow. There's nothing inherently WRONG with this. But it does wind people up - and that's a reasonable reaction if you actually do like the game.

    Of course, I agree though that I doubt the plot of Gears 3 is really the selling point. But hell, if people wanted it - they wanted it. That's probably not too unreasonable a demand... although I admit complaining about the one-liners like I did is rather petty. But then... I am! :p
  • metalangel #44 8 months ago

    Finished it last night. My biggest disappointment is that Mataki isn't a playable character in multiplayer yet! She's without question the best new character in the Gears universe.

    Have finished all the games, read all the books, and I dare say the games make a damn sight more sense if you've read the books, if only because in the games you barely have time to catch your breath before the next disaster befalls our poor heroes.

    Don't worry Ms. Traviss, you can't hope to please many people any more. If there'd be any more story within the games, people would complain about all the exposition and 'I thought this was supposed to be an action game'.
    Edited by metalangel at 22/09/11 @ 14:02
  • DolphC #45 8 months ago

    Totally agree with Zaxlor. Loved the first game, thought the 2nd was inferior, but still enjoyable. This game so far (middle of act 4) is just fucking beat. While I agree with some that this is the most refined Gears experience, it is so utterly boring, that it feels like Cliffy B and co. were just going through the motions to bring out this year's money maker. The MP options are vast, if that's your thing (it isn't mine), but the SP has not evolved at all since the first game. Was really looking forward to this but am very disappointed. Rushed through playing Space Marine to get to this one, which sucks, because it was more fun and challenging than GOW 3 (which is WAY too easy on anything less than Insane and much easier than all previous GOW games).

    Time for Epic to find a way to reignite the spark they captured in the first game. The same spark that strated to fade out in the sequel, and that spark that has just been smothered by the desire to jst CODalize GOW with prestaged setpiece after setpiece, complete with detailed instructions of how to defeat big creatues for any schmuck too stupid to watch the reticule turn red.

    Fucking lame.
  • Xardan #46 8 months ago

    Came here expecting some insightful comments on the Gears 3 ending. But i found a bunch of haters.

    Keep it classy people.

    Anyway i really liked the ending.
  • Beano #47 8 months ago

    At least you are being objective, using real arguments and refraining from name calling. Thanks!
  • DolphC #48 8 months ago

    Ive been a huge Epic fan since the first Unreal game. I found them very comparable to Id as everything they released seemed special and expertly crafted. But unlike Id, whose every release seems to get better, Epic seems more interested in making huge blockbuster games that cater to the average person, rather than a great game.

    Even Bulletstorm, which was mediocore at best, was more of a case of Epic making sure to put their stamp on what started as a PCF project negating almost all of what made Painkiller such an awesome experience.

    Cliffy B. needs to spend more timeactually designing games and less time on 6 month publicity tours letting eveybody know how "epic" the storyline is to a game whose plot reads like the one Id used for Doom: Monsters invaded your turf,you're pissed, and they are about to find out that they fucked with the wrong guy.
    Edited by DolphC at 22/09/11 @ 15:03
  • metalangel #49 8 months ago

    @Xardan: I'm not going to waste my breath on here trying to talk about the story.
  • man.the.king #50 8 months ago

    @GamesConnoisseur

    "Stories in game doesn't hold up to stories in other medium, but can greatly help immersion by being well told, interesting and grounded in it's own way."

    I have only played GeOW 1 and 2 so far, so can only comment based on that, but nothing I've seen so far in Gears led me to think "interesting story". Uncharted, whatever it's faults, certainly does not disappoint in the story and wit arena, although, to be sure, it's very, very far from being a classic.

    That being said, I didn't really mind GeOW's story or lack thereof. I bought the Gears games for their gameplay, and one setpiece in GeOW is still one of my favorites in games - the sections with the Kryll (probably because it strongly reminded me of Pitch Black).

    "...how many human lives has Drake murdered and left how many widows and fatherless children over the course of the franchise?..."

    Speaking of fiction (be it film or television medium, or games), so did Indiana Jones. But I'm assuming you didn't mind that.

    So why this?
    Edited by man.the.king at 22/09/11 @ 19:09
  • revan8 #51 8 months ago

    Completed, amazing game. Shit story but who cares when gameplay is so much fun. Solid. 9.
  • UKVampire_2010 #52 8 months ago

    I've really enjoyed the story. Got the game a day early and went straight into campaign. Not a huge fan of the series but appreciated it non the less. I found the story to be fun with some quirky comments in there was shocked to see how the story played out and how it affected the group especially after dom died and that big cut scene

    I know its not for everyone however the MP aspect of the game is great fun with loads of modes there is bound to be something in there to raise a smile.
    Edited by UKVampire_2010 at 23/09/11 @ 09:29