Carmack: games "reduce aggression"

By Fred Dutton Published 29 July, 2011

Doom creator sees shooters as "cathartic".

Doom creator and industry veteran John Carmack has hit back at accusations that games promote violent tendencies in players, arguing that they're in fact "cathartic" and more likely to reduce aggression.

Speaking in an interview with IndustryGamers, the id Software co-founder explained that he'd never taken the "violence in video games debate" seriously.

"There was an E3 where all that was going on where I was giving interviews and the reporters would start going into their questions, and I wasn't supposed to talk about any of that," he said.

"My wife was there and she’d start kicking me when I was about to go, 'Well, I think…' And in the end it didn’t matter, it didn't make any impact on things. I never felt threatened by it and it turned out not to matter.

"And I really think, if anything, there is more evidence to show that the violent games reduce aggression and violence. There have actually been some studies about that, that it's cathartic.

"If you go to QuakeCon and you walk by and you see the people there [and compare that to] a random cross section of a college campus, you're probably going to find a more peaceful crowd of people at the gaming convention. I think it’s at worst neutral and potentially positive."

That study Carmack is referring to could be a recent report that argued the increase in popularity of video games is partly responsible for the recent drop in the US crime rate.

In related news, a Norwegian retailer today decided to remove 51 games from its shelves in the wake of the horrific Oslo shooting spree last week.

The perpetrator, Anders Behring Breivik, was reportedly a keen gamer who apparently considered Modern Warfare 2 a "training-simulation".

id Software's next release is post-apocalyptic shooter Rage, due out on PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 from 7th October.

Picture of Fred.

About Fred Dutton

Fred Dutton is Eurogamer's US news editor, based in Washington DC.

Read more articles from Fred by visiting the Fred Dutton archive page.

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Comments (60) Latest comment 10 months ago

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  • smelly #1 10 months ago

    Shooters bore me to sleep - so perhaps he's correct.

  • darkmorgado #2 10 months ago

    And I really think, if anything, there is more evidence to show that the violent games reduce aggression and violence. There have actually been some studies about that, that it's cathartic.

    Hear hear. This has been mentioned for years, not just in the single recent study EG cites, but it's always been shouted down. Studies have consistently shown that violent games act as an outlet for agression rather than an instigator of it.

  • Xardan #3 10 months ago

    The only time i have witnessed aggression from a gamer is when i have interrupted one from a long gaming session.

    A healthy amount of time gaming is fine i think, but if you spend far far too much time doing it, its going to have an effect on you.

  • OxWearingSocks #4 10 months ago

    Usual case of the minority ruining it for the majority. An ultra small percentage of gamers are aggressive but they're what the media will pick up on. Scapegoats

  • ForAllOFThis #5 10 months ago

    Catharsis was debunked along with the rest of freud's theories. Fact: most videogames increase frustration. That may or may not increase aggression, depending on the individual. These videogames designers without basic psychology knowledge..

  • smelly #6 10 months ago

    >most videogames increase frustration.

    But we're talking about shooters here.. like COD4 and Halo reach - both of which can be finished without any fustration.. nor indeed breaking a sweat... nor skill... nor.... Well.. At least the online parts are good.

  • darkmorgado #7 10 months ago

    Urgh, ok mister pedant, how about using "outlet" instead of catharsis?

  • Poggins #8 10 months ago

    It's not 51 one videogames though is it? The 51 includes toy guns and stuff from what I heard...

  • ForAllOFThis #9 10 months ago

    Yea.. I've never heard anyone get frustrated whislt playing COD or Halo online [/end sarcasm]. Frustration is simply not achieving a goal. Everytime someone dies on a shooter, they feel frustrated. Everyone dies online.

    I'm not saying games are solely responsible for frustration, they are just one of many many causes. Frustration then leads to aggression but there are a ton of modifiers between frustration and aggression.What I'm saying is that it's a lot more complicated than videogames cause / doesn't cause aggression.

  • bikmate #10 10 months ago

    They probably do, because some games piss you off so bad that the only thing keeping you from kicking in that 60 inch plasma is its price tag.

    They actually teach people self-control, those who kick in their TVs fail. Breaking game discs and controllers is acceptable :p

    and the games that usually piss me off the most ain't shooters, it's fighting games.
    Edited by bikmate at 30/07/11 @ 00:36

  • darkmorgado #11 10 months ago


    I'm not saying games are solely responsible for frustration, they are just one of many many causes.

    But on the flipside, how many people, when they are pissed off, turn on a computer game and shoot some polygons in the face and feel a hell of a lot better for it?

  • CaptainQuint #12 10 months ago

    Carmack is right.

    Having said that; buggy, glitchy games can make me want to punch the wall in.

    Games don't cause violence; bad developers do.

  • Ikaros_O #13 10 months ago

    Yeah, FPS can be a decent release for anger, play the game for about an online and you get to round shooting actual players and you'll hear some of 'em bitch through the mic. It could be considered as a good outlet.

  • aphex187 #14 10 months ago

    Yeah he's right it doesn't lead to aggression that's why i used to kick fk out of the pc and its desk. I've even smashed a chair up when playing CS, pathetic i know but online gaming can be the most frustrating thing ever.....

  • curryking3 #15 10 months ago

    Love Carmack, but I don't think he's right on this. From what professors have taught me in university, catharsis is just the opposite of what happens in practice. What is usually seen apparently is that behaviour that happens over and over just tends to be reproduced more and more.

    Just that admission doesn't mean anything for games though. It's not waving a white flag to say something like that.

    I agree very much with Will Wright's perspective on violence in games. He says that whether it is SimCity or Doom, the vast majority of people who play games see them as the same thing; they are both seen by players as games with clear objectives (OK not SimCity lol) and obstacles for the players to overcome.

    Games are seen as games.
    Edited by curryking3 at 30/07/11 @ 01:27

  • Sabreman64 #16 10 months ago

    Clearly Carmack has never played Trials HD.

  • GooseUK #17 10 months ago

    I never, ever think about the violence in video games. I have spent 4 days 'killing' all day on the PC and never once though about it in any other way than winning the game. Having played through Half-life series from 1 to ep2, and then played Left4dead2 constantly during these 4 days of holiday - not a single idea of aggression has crossed my mind whatsoever - in fact in the later it was and always is a sense of team work to solve a challenge.

    I just stop playing, go to bed and get up the next day. The idea of real violence is alien.

  • The-Jack-Burton #18 10 months ago

    To be honest, video games helped me quit drinking alcohol. I had a pretty bad alcohol problem, and games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect really helped me get through some tough stretches where all I could do was think about having a drink.

    I'm not recommending this as a solution, I'm just saying, for me, personally, I know how beneficial video games have been in my life

  • hiddenranbir #19 10 months ago

    Of course it is more peaceful. Gamers at a games con are wimpy nerds!

  • bratmandu #20 10 months ago

    I've about 8 xbox controllers who'd beg to differ...

  • Mayernator87 #21 10 months ago

    I agree with 'darkmorgado'. When ever I've had a bad day, I find it nice to fill a few faces with bullets in CoD online or to do a few rounds in Street Fighter IV.

    It's taught me to be a very calm/ well rounded person.

  • f01re #22 10 months ago

    @TheJackBurton Same here :)

  • Stratix #23 10 months ago

    The worst a game could do is bring out the violence already within a person. I've played games almost all my life. I've never been in a real fight, and I never want to be.

    EDIT: I'm gonna fucking punch whoever negged me!
    Edited by Stratix at 30/07/11 @ 19:03

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #24 10 months ago

    Carmack is not a scientist, and has not properly cited peer-reviewed evidence, or his own, short of a personal anecdote. Worse, he makes money from the product he's trying to defend. So I'm afraid his opinion on this matter is no more valid than some Norwegian supermarket VP who sees a bandwagon to jump on.

  • MagnificentDuke #25 10 months ago

    There is Norway this can be true

  • Gastrian #26 10 months ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012

  • Davemanz #27 10 months ago

    So can we be intellectually honest and rhetorically consistent here and admit that this guy doesn't necessarily know what he's talking about more than any politician who says just the opposite with poorly-substantiated backing?

  • JadedSoul #28 10 months ago

    Post deleted at 08:10:55 26-04-2012

  • natureboy #29 10 months ago

    Everything to moderation as they say

  • Mr_Brown #30 10 months ago

    He is not wrong, it may not relaxing to shoot things, but while you are being aggressive and frustrated at your TV and at a video game, you are less likely take that aggression out into the real world. It doesn't always work that way, but at least with games you can switch it off and walk away from it.

    I just wish the media would stop using games as a scapegoat.

  • altitude2k #31 10 months ago

    My PGR-temper says otherwise...

  • JadedSoul #32 10 months ago

    Post deleted at 08:10:55 26-04-2012

  • Raiko101 #33 10 months ago

    Don't think I can agree with this having been playing video games for 20 years. I still suffer from spouts of game rage, though no where near as bad as when I was a teen. Games are often more frustrating for me than calming, even if I enjoy playing them.

  • Folant #34 10 months ago

    When I feel aggressive, I get laid or masturbate. Works for me.

  • Triggerhappytel #35 10 months ago

    Some games can, I'm sure, but on the other hand some games have quite the opposite effect - last night for instance, I had a terrible night on MAG and was so wound up afterward I couldn't get to sleep.

    I don't think all genres can really be classified under the same guidelines, in any case - the likes of Wii Sports or Little King's Story are a million miles away from COD and Halo, et al.

  • DrStrangelove #36 10 months ago

    Games reduce aggression? I can remember how games like Mario Kart 64 turned me into a crying and shouting berserk, foaming out of my mouth and smashing Nintendo products into walls.

  • surgicalassistant #37 10 months ago

    aggressive or not, DOOM is my all-time favourite game. I guess all games have to be played in a moderate way. I mean don't get too serious about shooting games. Just play them for fun and enjoyment.

    surgical assistant
    Edited by surgicalassistant at 30/07/11 @ 17:12

  • RedgeHammer #38 10 months ago

    I believe that to be true. Video games, and FPS's in general helped me get through a rough, painful time of my life. I consider gaming to be a better pain med than any of the stupid opiates that dr's want me to get addicted to.

  • Zombie-Hamster #39 10 months ago

    For me this entirely depends on the game. I've had some pretty bad FIFA rage in my time! And after playing Burnout I have occasionally been tempted to perform takedowns on people (although mostly BMW drivers on the M4 and let's be honest, who wouldn't like to do that!!)...

    On the flip side, there are plenty of games out there that can do quite the opposite, I find RPGs and games with decent puzzle elements to them particularly good for that.

  • silversun #40 10 months ago

    Doom and games like it never make me agressive however games like sonic 06 and similar make me want to
    destroy the pad : ) but i never do.

    On a serious note , no game will ever make me go out on the street and beat someone up , or shoot them.
    I would hope i never do something like that in my life and my thought a respects go out to all people effected in norway atm
    Edited by silversun at 30/07/11 @ 19:42

  • Freek #41 10 months ago

    Ah yes, lets take the easy way out. Lets all forget about the harsh politcs, the religions, the ever hardening views that are creating a society where everybody feels a need to take sides against each other. Feeding racism, hatred and ever more strict anti freedom laws.

    Lets all forget that, and just blame it on videogames, that'll make it all go away.

    Yup, it's working, I feel better already.
    Edited by Freek at 30/07/11 @ 20:26

  • Subdominator #42 10 months ago

    He's wrong. At least for me, shooters make me more aggressive. It's got something to do with frustration, which is the main problem: If you're successful you feel good, if the difficulty hurts you (or online opponents) it makes you aggressive. In any case: Whenever there have been people running amok they were only able to do so because they had access to guns.

  • Lunatic4ever #43 10 months ago

    Some people here are talking about how frustration ruins the fun that is to be had and thus the whole relaxing aspect of the game. I think it really depends on the game your playing. If the game is challening and I'm just not up for that challenge then there is no way I can get really frustrated. At least no reasonable one. As long as it is fair, multiplayer or singleplayer, I can enjoy it. But if the game is flawed and those aspects keep reappearing all the time then frustration is on its way.

    I had tense duels in shooters that made me sweat and shout when I lost but in the end it was awesome and I felt better than I did before plyaing it. So yeah, I agree with the dude

  • SomaticSense #44 10 months ago

    @ Raiko101 (and all the others mentioning frustration when gaming:

    "Don't think I can agree with this having been playing video games for 20 years. I still suffer from spouts of game rage, though no where near as bad as when I was a teen. Games are often more frustrating for me than calming, even if I enjoy playing them."

    The point being, have you then at any time afterward committed acts of violence to other actual people? If a person has violent tendancies, then a person has violent tendencies. Gaming is not in any way going to automatically 'give' someone the type of personality to randomly go apeshit with a knife in a club, or say, set off a bomb and shoot a bunch of Norwegian kids dressed as a policeman.

    I can get frustrated as all hell at games (mostly when I sense unfair play going on), but have never, ever even come close to carrying that over to anyone around me. Anyone that does has always has that tendency, borne through parenting and general childhood experience.

    Think of it this way. Remember all those bullies at school? The really violent fuckers? The ones that were always getting into scraps and getting suspended? Were they gamers? Or were they taking the piss out of you and beating you because YOU were a gamer? That was my experience at school during the early to mid nineties. Irony eh?

    Studies proving that games can lead to explosive periods of frustration prove nothing expect that gamers actually care about getting through the challenges placed in front of them, and show huge determination to do so. Did these same studies then show each participant's criminal record? And if so, did it show any history of actual violent tendancies? If so, then it's funny how they never release that part of the study.

    Brevik was far more inspired by EDL rallies, fascist reading material, anti-Muslim groups, and an apparent souring of a friendship with a Pakistani when it came to the perceived need to commit those evil acts than he ever was videogames.

  • Stoatboy #45 10 months ago

    @Davemanz: Well, he's at least played video games before, which makes him massively more qualified than most of the soap-box preachers who comment negatively on the subject.
    Edited by Stoatboy at 31/07/11 @ 02:18

  • Ryze #46 10 months ago

    Games let us kick/shoot the shit out of avatars, and reduce youth violence in the streets. I say.

    If only I could kick the shit out of PSHome avatars.

    That'd be fun.

    /hides

  • silversun #47 10 months ago

    When can people have a good debate about why video games are being made scapegoats, jut saw yesterdays paper and was a story about a guy sat in a place too long playing xbox and got DVT and died , ok its tragic but it also could have happened if he been on a plane 12 hours or been watching tv sitting down for 12 hours.

    Also was a podcast i listen to yesterday cant say which one i think but they talked about feeling guilty because this crazy guy from norway used games as tools , this is not really the industry fault .
    To follow that up i saw a story about being annoymous on internet and facebook wanting to get rid of it, even with that in the online game he did his planning , im not sure that would have stopped his actions.

    Some people are influenced by culture but the blame should not all be laid on it, as people still have some control over there own lives.
    My view is advertising should be looked at close to prevent young people see violence and scary stuff , knowing from my own experience as a youngster years ago: i never should have watch aranaphobia so young lol.
    Plus 15 year olds in news for drinking, i did not start all that till i was 18 , my point here is things are easy acess to younger people than ever before so there needs be responsibillity but not blame.
    Edited by silversun at 31/07/11 @ 09:32

  • metalangel #48 10 months ago

    @TheJackBurton: not trying to put down your achievement in any way, well done... but you reminded me of an odd thing. When I play certain games, they make me WANT TO drink. All the absinthe in The Saboteur had me cracking open a forgotten bottle from my cupboard. When Marston goes into a saloon I always think what a lightweight he is for almost falling over after four shots and so prove I can beat him... similar in Fallout, though not as much.

    I know it's silly, I suppose it's just a bit of roleplaying or added immersion or something. Those Mexican cantinas in RDR are just so cozy I really wish I was there sitting in the shade playing cards and ogling senoritas.

  • Murton #49 10 months ago

    @JackBurton - as someone else who has had some rough patches with alcohol I know exactly where you're coming from. A good immersive game that draws you and refuses to let go certainly does reduce the tendency to drink. A couple of years ago I lost a job I really loved and bought a bottle of scotch on the way home, my intention being to drink the whole thing and then hit the job market the following morning, but Fallout 3 had been released the week before I found myself so engrossed that I barely touched it that night opting for a couple tins instead.

    Then I hit that memory leak and found that the game was driving me to drink, but as a whole I'm an advocate for the use of gaming as a distraction from life's problems, largely it works.

  • icematt12 #50 10 months ago

    I agree, nothing cools me off mentally than beating the AI (shooters, racing, not too much with fighters though). But as someone said it also takes into account the quality of the game. Shift 2 is frustrating because I have no faith in the grip levels of the car, and how it reacts to what I expect it to, compared to the many other racing types I have played.

    A query, with the QuakeCon comment could gamers get along better because of similar experiences and equality? We all have similar tools and dislike hackers because they damage the equilibrium set up.

    After last night/this morning I can safely say the gaming scenario that made me feel most violent and sweary. UFO Catcher in Yakuza 3, god damn those chicks. Much more friendly in the 4th.

  • ShiroBen #51 10 months ago

    He shouldn't have said 'cathartic', that's such a hot button with some people :)

    Anyway. If you're a violent person then I don't know if videogames will provide a good outlet for your violent impulses, but maybe they will. Frankly I don't think they're going to do much one way or another; if you're inclined towards using violence to solve your problems then you need therapy, not videogames. I know that I don't look at games that way, I play games for fun and for the experience they offer, not because I want to hurt people and need a safe outlet for that impulse.

  • jayc4life #52 10 months ago

    I heard one celebrity say one time when they got asked about it (come to think about it, I think it was Mr. T), and he said likewise, that games don't provoke violent tendencies. His argument was that gamers are too busy sitting around gaming, wrapped up in their own world to bother to go out and assault people or get involved in other various criminal acrivities. It eas a few years ago I read it but can't remember where though, but it was around the time GTA San Andreas came out.

  • Gylfi #53 10 months ago

    oh so now games are used to vent rage.

    so they are, what, sandbags? toilet pot?

    So much for the topic "games are the new literature", uh?

  • Neil__ #54 10 months ago

    @Gylfi

    Is that supposed to make any sense?

  • SalarymanDaishi #55 10 months ago

    I'm almost worried about Carmack's views. Games certainly aren't meant to aggravate. Just the same, they're equally unconventional in venting any nutcase's frustration to vent that same frustration in public. Sheesh, they're supposed to be games - not therapy!

  • Genji #56 10 months ago

    "Carmack is not a scientist, and has not properly cited peer-reviewed evidence, or his own, short of a personal anecdote. Worse, he makes money from the product he's trying to defend. So I'm afraid his opinion on this matter is no more valid than some Norwegian supermarket VP who sees a bandwagon to jump on."

    Pretty much exactly what I came here to post. He doesn't have to be a scientist (and conflict of interest doesn't necessarily weaken his point either), but if he's going to make a claim like that, then there needs to be some research to point to. As it is, all he's doing is preaching to people that already agree with him.
    Edited by Genji at 01/08/11 @ 03:39

  • AnotherIdiot #57 10 months ago

    I suspect his opinion is probably slightly biased, due to the fact selling video games has made him a millionaire
    Edited by AnotherIdiot at 01/08/11 @ 04:29

  • djed #58 10 months ago

    This reminds me of a point Doug Stanhope made regarding airline violence. In short: "How many in-flight violence episodes have been avoided because of alcohol? Hard to get any real numbers on that, isn't it?"

  • kinky_mong #59 10 months ago

    Is this a good place to leave these?

    Perfect example of carthesis

    And another
    Edited by kinky_mong at 01/08/11 @ 10:38

  • Murton #60 10 months ago

    "if you're inclined towards using violence to solve your problems then you need therapy, not videogames."

    I agree, but video games can play a part in that therapy, there is a growing following within the medical world that the use of video games alongside regular therapy can greatly increase the effectiveness of said therapy. Old school mental health practitioners still advise physical exercise or in some cases the use of punching bags in anger management, why not a shooter?

    At the end of the day it's down to the therapy and willingness of the patient to get the results, a video game alone won't do it, even in the anecdotes of some of the commenters here it's clear that it was their own willpower/determination that brought about the positive change, video games were merely the tool they (myself included) choose to use to assist in that.