How new is Elder Scrolls V's engine?

By Robert Purchese Published 13 December, 2010

Are we talking Gamebryo or id Tech 5?

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim will be powered by a new engine, Bethesda has said. But there are some important points to consider before you get carried away.

"We can now confirm that the TES V: Skyrim engine is all-new. And it looks fantastic," Bethesda community man Nick Breckon tweeted.

"It's a new graphics/gameplay engine built internally. We'll have more details down the road," he added.

What he did not say was, "Skyrim will not use Gamebryo", nor did he specify that, "Skyrim will use id Tech 5."

Simply, this could be Bethesda's way of saying it has heavily modified or revamped the existing Gamebryo Oblivion/Fallout 3 engine. Todd Howard suggested this to be the case when talking to Eurogamer in August.

"Fallout 3 technically does a lot more than Oblivion. The new stuff is an even bigger jump from that," he said. "I can say it is on the existing platforms, which we're really happy with. You almost feel like you have a new console when you see the game."

Fallout: New Vegas was the last of Bethesda's games (developed by Obsidian) to use Gamebyro: "outdated tech", according to Eurogamer's Fallout: New Vegas review.

Less likely, but also tantalisingly possible, is that Bethesda has opted to use new sibling studio id Software's muscular id Tech 5 engine. However, Bethesda's parent company ZeniMax didn't buy id Software until the summer of 2009, and work on a fifth Elder Scrolls game, we presume, started long before then; such a transition would have required scrapping a lot of work before doing, again, a lot of work.

The Elder Scrolls V was unveiled at the weekend, through a trailer with requisite gravelly-toned narration and dramatic prophecy to herald a "Dragon-born" hero. The game will be released on unknown formats - presumably PC, PS3 and Xbox 360 - on 11th November 2011.

Many had considered the next Elder Scrolls game to be an MMO and, although that doesn't immediately appear to be the case, there could be a significant multiplayer part to the game that led speculators down the wrong path.

Now Skyrim has been announced we can expect a flurry of meaty game-reveals to follow.

"One thing I can say is that from when you first hear about it to when it's out will be the shortest it's been for us. It's pretty far along. When we show it, we want to show a lot, because there's a lot of game there to play right now," said Todd Howard earlier this year.

The reveal.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds. @Clert on Twitter.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (45) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • NewbieZilla #1 1 year ago

    No multiiplayer, please. That is more important to me than the engine.

  • rivuzu #2 1 year ago

    Optional drop-in Multiplayer could be fun. Or an Arena based Gladiator fighting type of shindig. Though I'm just as happy without it - and thank god it's not using the previous engine. Gamebryo needs a long, unawakening nap.

  • r4z0rbl4d3 #3 1 year ago

    I just hope it's great, no matter the engine, MP or if there are fur bikinis.

  • Eraserhead #4 1 year ago

    Have to say, "It's a new graphics/gameplay engine built internally" sounds pretty unambiguous to me, whether or not they mention Gamebryo.

  • Tiiti #5 1 year ago

    Very exciting.

    I caved in and bought Oblivion again last night on PC (had it on X360) for £20 via STEAM. Yes.... I know it will probably be 99p in the holiday bargains but I'm impatient. It took me hours to install all the damn visual mods though so never got a go in the end :/

  • osh #6 1 year ago

    Multiplayer would be a travesty, along with Gamebryo. Fervently hoping it's a new engine!

  • Kerome #7 1 year ago

    Hmm, if you ask me it will be an evolution of what they had. Creating something like Fallout 3 requires quite a bit of workflow engineering and tools, it's not as simple as just dropping in a new renderer.

    Either way, let's hope future efforts are less buggy than New Vegas...

  • Seoh #8 1 year ago

    Here's hoping for borderlands style Coop (but without the connection issues)

  • StolenGlory #9 1 year ago

    "there could be a significant multiplayer part to the game that led speculators down the wrong path."

    There you go, all sorted.
    Edited by StolenGlory at 13/12/10 @ 09:31

  • thesombrerokid #10 1 year ago

    As a games programmer i unambiguously interpret everything that's been said to mean that the gamebryo part of Bethesdas base code (which would actually be a relatively small part) has been swapped out for an inhouse engine but that they have preserved everything they had done which sat on top of the gamebryo code & now sits on top of their own in house stuff.

    EDIT: also its not smart to license code from a bankrupt company i.e. gamebryo 99% of the license fee is support which almost certainly doesn't exist at Emergent Game Technologies.
    Edited by thesombrerokid at 13/12/10 @ 09:36

  • hiddenranbir #11 1 year ago

    Nice to have that confirmation.

    Still a shame they're going to put a 4GB ceiling, unless the engine will scale with your tech... :o

  • LHH #12 1 year ago

    Yes because their own inhouse engines are not piles of steaming buggy shit and John Carmack doesn't have a history of producing rock solid engines that have excellent scaling.
    But it's ok folks, you can go up ladders without a loading screen now!

  • BabyJesus #13 1 year ago

    There won't be MP Todd Howard has stated numerous times he doesn't think it's a fit for their RPGs.

    Regarding an MMO Zenimax Online was established 2 years ago precisely for doing MMOs, Bethesdas got our backs SP RPG lovers.

  • FortysixterUK #14 1 year ago

    A whole year away? DOH ! If this is anywhere near as good as Oblivion then every other western RPG had better be prepared to up their stakes.
    Just that short reveal seemed to ooze quality, and was that Max Von Sydow doing the narration ?
    My main memory of Oblivions original release ? It took me off Wow for about 6 weeks after its release, it kept me THAT enamoured.( I am a Wow obsessive, I'm crap, but obsessed !).
    Really, really exciting news....and for just one person out their ( and this has nothing to do with anything game releated, I just wanted to say it...) Fook u DB ! Neg that !

  • StolenGlory #15 1 year ago

    "But it's ok folks, you can go up ladders without a loading screen now!"

    All things being equal, i'll take that.

  • StolenGlory #16 1 year ago

    "The Elder Scrolls V was unveiled at the weekend, through a trailer with requisite gravelly-toned narration and dramatic prophecy to herald a "Dragon-born" hero."

    Said gravelly-toned narrator being the immediately recognisable Max von Sydow of course.

  • Spekingur #17 1 year ago

    Oh yes, if this played like Borderlands then this would be awesome.
    Come to think of it though, it would need 'random loot' drops to capture the same essence as Borderlands.

  • apoc_reg #18 1 year ago

    If the word Gamebyro appears in the start up credits i may just switch it off and put it back in the wrapper!

    Surely they can see its way passed it?!

  • uknortherner2000 #19 1 year ago

    I don't really care what engine the game uses as long as:

    1) The game continues to support user mods like its predecessors
    2) There's NO multiplayer, online, or any of that shit
    3) There's no SecuROM, limited installs or "always online" arsehattery.

  • thedgam #20 1 year ago

    there goes another hundred years of my life...

  • Dizzy #21 1 year ago

    I don't care about the graphics engine. As long as the gameplay is there it will be a day one buy.

  • Evolution #22 1 year ago

    So they've basically said it will be an substantial upgrade of the Oblivion/F3 tech, and timewise it would have been near impossible to use the ID tech (nevermind the fact that it isn't suited for open world games, from what I've read). Why are we even talking about this?

    Morrowind used Gamebryo, but engine was vastly upgraded for Oblivion. I'm assuming from their "all new engine" comments that it will be something similar.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #23 1 year ago

    The only part of the New Vegas engine I have issue with is AI - specifically companion AI, and that's something that Bethesda would have to sort out in-house at any rate. Most of the bugs in the game are entirely content related, largely because there is so much of it, and because of the way some quests or random actions affect others later on.

    Of course, I'm playing on PC, so I get less bother with loading and stuff.

  • LHH #24 1 year ago

    timewise it would have been near impossible to use the ID tech (nevermind the fact that it isn't suited for open world games, from what I've read).

    Fair play on the time. But I guess you haven't read up on Rage? idtech 4 or whatever ran Doom 3 had trouble with out door open areas whereas the new one seems to be all about that.

    Although there has been comments on the new idtech engine not being mod able to which I reply it's not a bad thing when most mods for oblivion/fallout 3 were skins of naked kids and women and the most popular being the one were NPCs have orgies

  • Olemak #25 1 year ago

    Tech 5 is without a doubt a fantastic renderer, but in it's raw shooter form it does not really contain a lot if gameplay features. They'll have to add a LOT to it to make an RPG rather than an FPS. While the old Gamebryo engine has been outdated and ugly a long time already, I find the shortcomings of it's gameplay are more severe. Combat, magic and pretty much everything else was rather borting in Oblivion and Fallout 3. Just making it look prettyer using Carmacks new engine is not enough. They need to develop the actual gameplay engine, not just the way it looks.

    I really don't care if they're going to use Tech 5 or something else for this (although Tech 5 would make more sense), but we probably won't be seeing any Tech 5 stuff from them until Fallout 4 inevietably comes along. But that would be fantastic tho - Fallout coupled with a REAL shooter, and the PIP-boy letting you slow down time, target body parts and micro-manage inventory, companions and tactics while figting...

    Oh and Fallout with cars - please...

    As long as it funs to play, I dont mind looking at plasticy talking faces or pixilating shadows or whatever. Make it fun first, and pretty second. Fallout and Oblivion actually wasn't all that fun to play, in my opinion.

  • BabyJesus #26 1 year ago

    @LHH ID Tech 5 is a storage hog (Hence multiple dvds) also it cannot do 'true' open world, it's a series of levels seperated by loading screens (Think borderlands portals as opposed to NV where you can walk into 90% of the towns without loading, apart from interiors ).

    You'd kinda be messing with the feel of really being in this world which is paramount to Bethesdas RPGs.

  • mkreku #27 1 year ago

    I remember having a loading screen whenever I wanted to enter any building, no matter how small..

    Risen had absolutely no loading screens. Fantastic engine, that. Same with Just Cause 2, I think?

  • Markusdragon #28 1 year ago

    You know what, I LIKE Bethesda's Gamebryo implementation. Not enough that a new engine wouldn't come as a nice surprise, but enough to not give a shite if it plays like a more refined version of Oblivion.

  • polaris70 #29 1 year ago

    Who knows, maybe they've bought the Dunia engine that powered Far Cry 2. Now that engine would make a good RPG.

  • Bulbatron #30 1 year ago

    Skyrim, that's where the Nords lived, right?

    Does that mean we're in for a bit of a nordic feel to it, and lots of ice caves and snowy forests?

    Whatever, can't wait for another Elder Scrolls game.

    I don't see the problem wit adding multiplayer for those who want it. Personally, I'm in it for the single player, but as long as the multiplayer doesn't take away from the single player (Resident Evil 5, I'm looking at you) then what's the problem?

    Anyway, woooooo!

  • spazmo #31 1 year ago

    How about injecting some life and character into these games? I could be in a bar or a library and would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

  • metalangel #32 1 year ago

    Yeah, Skyrim is the Nordland. Bruma in Oblivion gives you a taste of what it will be like (damned pretty).

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #33 1 year ago

    "We can now confirm that the TES V: Skyrim engine is all-new. And it looks fantastic,"


    "Simply, this could be Bethesda's way of saying it has heavily modified or revamped the existing Gamebryo Oblivion/Fallout 3 engine."


    That would be stretching the term 'all-new' a bit don't you think?
    Edited by SpaceMidget75 at 13/12/10 @ 12:13

  • strangerism #34 1 year ago

    finally the juggernaut is back

  • AdamAsunder #35 1 year ago

    It will have been over 5 years Oblivion was released by the time Skyrim sees a shop shelf. It better be worth the wait.

  • Rack #36 1 year ago

    Hoping for something less buggy, with better performance and mod compatibility. Honestly I don't care at all about more shinies.

  • Colin8703 #37 1 year ago

    Voice on the trailer sounds like Max Von Sydow. He who was Ming the Merciless in the Flash Gordon film.

  • uknortherner2000 #38 1 year ago

    @LHH "Although there has been comments on the new idtech engine not being mod able to which I reply it's not a bad thing when most mods for oblivion/fallout 3 were skins of naked kids and women and the most popular being the one were NPCs have orgies"

    "Most mods"? I use texture replacements, Open Cities, Natural Weather/Interiors, Unofficial Oblivion Patch, Darnified UI, and not a single skimpy clothing item in sight (really breaks immersion as far as I'm concerned). Naked kid mods? Not on TESNexus there ain't. Don't know what sites you frequent!

    Also, there's a total conversion mod called Nehrim which I'm playing at the moment. It uses the Oblivion engine, but it's a completely new game (in German with English subtitles) with full voice acting, a 50-hour main quest plus lots of side quests and would've been impossible to implement if Oblivion wasn't moddable.

    Also, a locked down game would be bad news for gamers. It simply means you would be restricted to poor-quality, overpriced DLC like horse armour rather than the excellent mods that exist out there.
    Edited by uknortherner2000 at 13/12/10 @ 13:36

  • Markitron #39 1 year ago

    Wouldnt the initial 6 months also have comprised a lot of general game design unrelated to the engine? Obviously its gonna be a pain to switch over but the rage engine would be perfect for Elder Scrolls. I personally would be willing to wait a bit longer

  • ianegg #40 1 year ago

    I don't undertstand why people are so opposed to multiplayer... MMO style would definitely not work of an Elder Scrolls game, but small party coop would be great. I often found myself wishing I could roam around in Oblivion with a friend.

    The monster/world levelling system on the other hand is my major hangup. I prefer the traditional fixed world; Oblivion's system ruined the game for me and Fallout 3's was an enormous improvement. No bandits running around in glass armour when i reach a cerain level please!

  • arcam #41 1 year ago

    The monster/world levelling system on the other hand is my major hangup. I prefer the traditional fixed world; Oblivion's system ruined the game for me

    Agreed, but this is such a common complaint I feel sure they will have at least tried to address it. It does show why moddability is so important though - I've never even finished Vanilla Oblivion, as I realised what a massive improvement modders made to the game by remedying that crazy design decision.

    It's not about nude mods or even new quests - modders basically fixed Oblivion for me, making it twice as good as it was on release.

  • PearOfAnguish #42 1 year ago

    "Although there has been comments on the new idtech engine not being mod able to which I reply it's not a bad thing when most mods for oblivion/fallout 3 were skins of naked kids and women and the most popular being the one were NPCs have orgies"

    This is stunningy wrong. Mods have transformed Oblivion. Clearly you've never bothered to look for anything other than nude mods.

    "but the rage engine would be perfect for Elder Scrolls."

    Perfect how? What little we know about IDT5 suggests that it uses a large amount of storage and is not suited to the wide-open worlds that an essential part of Elder Scrolls games.

  • peppergomez #43 1 year ago

    I cannot wait. TES4 (albeit a heavily modded version) is my all time favorite RPG. I wonder if TES5 will need as much modding to help it realize its potential?

  • sabbede #44 1 year ago

    If they work in some multiplayer capacity, that's fine with me (The idea of a Borderlandsish "pop into my world for a bit" thing for example) so long as it doesn't detract from the "real" game.
    I guess thats the real concern. Its not like the option for multiplayer would necessarily make it worse (Baldur's Gate 1&2, NWN2... all great); I think we're all just worried that they'll put too much focus on the multi aspect and ruin the single player experience (like NWN1).
    If it were to be an MMO, that would be cause for a soccer style riot.

    That said, I've loved The Elder Scrolls since Arena and I've had an erection since I heard about Skyrim.
    Edited by sabbede at 14/12/10 @ 02:49

  • Acerac #45 1 year ago

    "The monster/world levelling system on the other hand is my major hangup. I prefer the traditional fixed world; Oblivion's system ruined the game for me"

    I agree with your point about bandits in glass armor distracting from the immersion, but I actually like other aspects of the world leveling because of the replay value. You can go wherever you want in the world and it is always a challenge. It makes sense that in an open world, new inhabitants would move in after a cave has been vacant for a while. In Morrowind, once you clean out a cave, you can never go back because it will always be empty. In Borderlands, the creatures respawn but are no challenge once you have moved on to a higher level. Oblivion offers an improved experience because you can go anywhere, anytime and it is always a challenge. If they could level it so that the bandits health, strength and treasure (in chests) leveled up with the player but the quality of their gear remained fixed, that would be perfect.