Vaz claims games let you "rape women"

By Robert Purchese Published 4 March, 2008

Misguided MP challenged in Parliament.

Labour MP Keith Vaz has finally been challenged in the Houses of Parliament after he claimed videogames let you "rape women".

His comments were made during a debate on Friday that sought to make the BBFC accountable to Parliament and the public to "encourage a return to more responsible decisions".

"Videogames are different because they are interactive," argued Vaz, reported by GamesIndustry.biz. "People who are watching a film at the cinema cannot participate in what is happening on the screen, or if they do they are removed from the cinema.

"However, someone sitting at a computer playing a videogame, or someone with one of those small devices that young people have these days, the name of which I forget: PlayStations or PSPs, something of that kind...

"Well, whatever they are called, when people play these things, they can interact. They can shoot people; they can kill people. As the honourable Gentleman said, they can rape women," he added.

The "honourable Gentleman" referred to was Julian Brazer, Conservative MP for Canterbury, sponsor of the Bill. Not the police telly show.

Vaz also trotted out the old Warren Leblanc Manhunt connection theory, despite police having rubbished it ages ago. Margaret Hodge, Minister for Culture, Media and Sport, was eager to promote the facts of the murder enquiry and distance the role of Manhunt as violent inspiration.

"The game was discovered not in [killer] Warren Leblanc's possession but in the victim's possession," she said. "It does not feature the use of a hammer, and it was not considered by the police to be a contributory factor. No such connection was ever suggested in court.

"Indeed, the prosecution and defence barristers insisted in court that the video game had played no part in the killing. It was reported that Leblanc was motivated by fear of a gang to which he owed money."

Conservative MP Edward Vaizey had also heard enough, and asked Brazer (Vaz had left) if he knew of "any videogame that has as its intention the carrying out of rape", because the BBFC and he were "unaware of any such game".

"I cannot comment on the rape in games issue, but I can tell the House what Stefan Pakeerah's father said after Warren Leblanc had murdered his son," responded Brazer.

"He said that Manhunt is a game using weapons like hammers and knives...The object of Manhunt is not just to go out and kill people. It's a point-scoring game where you increase your score depending on how violent the killing is. That explains why Stefan's murder was as horrific as it was."

Brilliant.

The debate will continue this Friday, when Margaret Hodge will offer a complete response to the case made.

Vaz will likely complain that his arguments will be "pilloried in the press that is sponsored by the videogames industry" again.

The results of the Byron Report are also expected at the end of this month; an investigation set up by the Prime Minister to look into the effects of violence on the Internet and in videogames.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (80) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • dan13l #1 4 years ago

    Keith Vaz is a bigger menace to society than any of these games. He's constantly popping up looking for the next easy way to get his name in the press. He was dressed up like a lolly-pop person in our local paper the other day.

    Wanker.

  • the_dudefather #2 4 years ago

    parappa the raper

  • Darkedge #3 4 years ago

    ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

    Remind me why we vote for these morons again? For them to not research things, to ignore facts when presented them and to generally pervert the course of intelligent thought? I'm sure just as many people think videogames should be banned as thought that in 1940 that piece of paper in 1935 was Peace in our time and was still working...

  • ZuluHero #4 4 years ago

    erm.. battle raper?

    http://en.w ikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Raper

    EDIT: oh and lets not forget its sequel:

    http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Raper_2
    Edited by 1 at 04/03/08 @ 11:40

  • captainrentboy #5 4 years ago

    More importantly, where can I get hold of this 'Rape Simulator'?

  • bad09 #6 4 years ago

    Something really needs to be done about these idiots that talk about games (or anything for that matter) without knowing the facts. Politicians SHOULD know the facts in todays society, it's what we pay them for. If they don't and talk absolute rubbish like this then we should kick 'em out. I want people in parliament who have at least some kind of grasp of real life, real issues and real problems.

    I can't wait for the Bryon report, from what I've heard it's been very positive and it should lay all of this nonsense to rest (and shut these outdated fools up once and for all!)

    On the plus side most people in the UK know Vaz is a twat so not many will listen.

  • tesco #7 4 years ago

    and he's my local mp.... i feel so ashamed.

    prick.

  • kingdumpalot #8 4 years ago

    Custer's Revenge was all about rape of the native american women, we didn;t have hordes of atari owners roaming about raping. In fact, we still don't have that now, so what's the problem?

  • MrChuckles #9 4 years ago

    Ed Vaizey is quite often on 'The Wright Stuff' on Channel 5, comes across as a likeable conservative... What a shock that is :-)

  • bad09 #10 4 years ago

    "'The Wright Stuff' on Channel 5"

    That show rocks! One of the last places for common sense and sensible debate on TV!

  • mossychops001 #11 4 years ago

    Well done Vaz you got your name on Eurogamer, Now fuck off you passport selling turd.
    Edited by 1 at 04/03/08 @ 11:53

  • NewYork #12 4 years ago

    Sensational!

  • bloodflowers #13 4 years ago

    That person's wages are a waste of taxpayer money. Someone should get rid of him.

  • grantc7 #14 4 years ago

    A British Jack Thompson! Oh the fun.

  • Lebowski #15 4 years ago

    GTA IV - "Help Nikolai get a dodgy passport" - 10 points, ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED!

  • Whizzo #16 4 years ago

    erm.. battle raper?

    So games that exist anywhere on the planet but not legally available in the UK have to be considered when the Commons proposes legislation? It rather looks like Keith "make the cheque out to cash" Vaz has been talking shite with Jack Thompson.

  • aldo_14 #17 4 years ago

    erm.. battle raper?

    Not passed or certified for release in the UK, AFAIK.

  • homerramone #18 4 years ago

    Wow - A politician without a clue. Thers a rarity ! :-)

  • lambtron #19 4 years ago

    @zuluhero

    It didn't receive a classification the UK and as such is not freely available. You could illegally download it I suppose but then there are plenty of movies (Hentai for example) depicting rape in an exploitative fashion that you could illegally download too. Yet I don't see people decrying movies for destroying social values.

  • menage #20 4 years ago

    More precisely, raping pixels.

    I don't jump on mushrooms when I see them do I? (okay bad example:p)
    Edited by 1 at 04/03/08 @ 12:00

  • neilka #21 4 years ago

    Games don't let me, the voices do.

  • bad09 #22 4 years ago

    @ menage

    Didn't you know? Mario is an evil game which promotes hate crimes against fungus and turtles.

  • Wyrm #23 4 years ago

    I doubt any of these Hentai rape games have been sanctioned by the BBFC though.

    Even still, many movies have rape scenes. If a game wants to feature rape as a part of a mature storyline, then I haven't got a problem with it.

  • Kyle #24 4 years ago

    "...or someone with one of those small devices that young people have these days, the name of which I forget: PlayStations or PSPs, something of that kind...

    Well, whatever they are called..."

    Sorry, sorry, sorry. Did he just transform into a walking stereotype in the Houses of Parliament?

  • Avaloner #25 4 years ago

    "The object of Manhunt is not just to go out and kill people. It's a point-scoring game where you increase your score depending on how violent the killing is. That explains why Stefan's murder was as horrific as it was."

    So he was more violent in his killing to get more points? Do these people actually realize how stupid that is?

  • the_dudefather #26 4 years ago

    "That is quite simple: videogames are different because they are interactive," he said. "People who are watching a film at the cinema cannot participate in what is happening on the screen, or if they do they are removed from the cinema."
    [link url=http: //laist.com/2008/02/26/man_stabs_movie.php
    ]http://la ist.com/2008/02/26/man_stabs_mo...[/link]
    Edited by 2 at 04/03/08 @ 12:22

  • L42yB #27 4 years ago

    "Yet I don't see people decrying movies for destroying social values."

    You just aren't looking very hard then... it still happens, expecially with the fundamenatalists. However, that war has basically been won in the Political arena, whereas games are still a valid target. Give it time, and this will go the same way as the arguments against books, movies and music...

  • Nithron #28 4 years ago

    Do I get extra points for killing idiots like Vaz?

  • rudedudejude #29 4 years ago

    "That explains why Stefan's murder was as horrific as it was."

    OF COURSE! WHAT A GENIUS!

    Sack these imcompetant fuck-wits. They are a disgrace to even consider themselves running this country.

  • mingster #30 4 years ago

    please show me one of these 'simulators' i would be interested in playing it.

    surely its no different to 'acting along' to a porno.

  • Shrike #31 4 years ago

    It's that time again, kids.

  • tripitaka #32 4 years ago

    Keith Vaz is a mong.

  • Totoriko #33 4 years ago

    "People who are watching a film at the cinema cannot participate in what is happening on the screen, or if they do they are removed from the cinema."

    So they don't have homes where they can watch their pRons?

  • moggsy #34 4 years ago

    So you don't need to be too bright to be an MP then.

  • tesco #35 4 years ago

    Next Vaz will be telling us the poweh of the cell will be the downfall of the xbox, this guy can't be trusted.

  • Fl0yd #36 4 years ago

    9 out of 10 people enjoy gang rape.

  • sharpfish #37 4 years ago

    It was funny 5 years ago when this stuff was happening because I think politicians all over the world thought it was cool to be seen picking on the 'morally wrong' themes of many videogames, but now the majority of voters are playing the fucking things so politicians with these views impress no-one but their mothers and their' mothers tea party pensioners (and possibly Jerk Thompson). Interactive be damned, while the majority of games still resembled advanced 3D cartoons there is MORE visceral and emotion impact still in 'ultra real' films so interaction isn't the problem it's the believability and the users inclination to enjoy the subject without questioning themselves (be it films or games)

    He's a bit of a thick twat by the sounds of things, even though the 'manhunt' case facts are well know he still chooses to believe whatever he wants to and applies it to 'rape', how strange.

  • BillyBrush #38 4 years ago

    The lifers leaderboard:

    1) Harold Shipman - 28,358 points

    2) Fred West - 20,610 points

    3) Myra Hindley - 7,698 points

    Zone: Insane

    If only the police knew at the time Shipman was a gamerscore whore! doh!

  • bad09 #39 4 years ago

    @ BillyBrush

    Quality! That's made my day mate!

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #40 4 years ago

    Maybe somebody in the games industry should just slip [corrupt former Europe minister] Keith Vaz a backhander.

    It seemed to work for the Hinduja Brothers.

  • BillyBrush #41 4 years ago

    a bit of nice feedback, on my birthday of all days! (grand old 28, approaching the hill ever so slowly)

    thank you squire, i was rather happy with that, especially the Zone: Insane bit

  • KreyAtiv #42 4 years ago

    Same shit, different day.

  • Eighthours #43 4 years ago

    Vaz is a corrupt prick. Anyone who wants to read up on him should look at the Hindujah affair.

  • erp #44 4 years ago

    Idiots. And how come that guy just left part-way through? Got bored?

  • potter73 #45 4 years ago

    Julian Brazier the moron who got inolved in this was my local MP. He would have spent months and months trying to find a video game that could be used in the 'video games are dangerous' argument (bear in mind , this is also the chap that tried to get the film 'Crash' banned....even though he admitted he had never seen it). So focuses on a awful sounding game (that probably no one has even played, let alone heard of) to put his point across.

    Ive played a number of 'violent' games, and have so far not gone out to copy any of this violent...indeed I have a respectable job etc etc. There are always going to be a minority of people who cant differentiate between right and wrong/ fantasy or reality, and they will be influenced by any number of things....hell, they may even see a particularly violent news report on the TV. IF people are going to start focusing on Video game violence, can they also then ban the news, films, music, certain cartoons, books etc etc.

    The real way to sort this issue out, is to apply the same sort of age rating you get on filims etc and enforce it. Put the responsibility back with the parents etc.

    Video games have come a long way since the days of space invaders (sorry, thats quite a violent game too...all that shooting etc) and now appeal to a large percentage of the adult popuation, and not just kids. Responsible adults should be able to to enjoy adult themed games without the fear of some meddling government do-gooder sticking his nose in

  • glaeken #46 4 years ago

    However, someone sitting at a computer playing a videogame, or someone with one of those small devices that young people have these days, the name of which I forget: PlayStations or PSPs, something of that kind...

    "Well, whatever they are called"

    So the guy can not be bothered to even learn a little about the subject he is attacking. Words fail me. If you are going to be vehemently against something why not actually take 5 minutes to gen up on what a few of the things you are attacking are called?

    Being anti something and then being so apathetic as to not be bothered to learn the proper names for the things you are against just makes the guy sound like a moron.
    Edited by 2 at 04/03/08 @ 14:01

  • Zander #47 4 years ago

    MP's and other idiots in positions of power enjoy telling us how bad video games are because you can do such awful things in them and they are far worse than movies because they are interactive but what about when you are playing as good guys with what we often call high moral values, such as justice and looking after one another. Ok so a lot of big selling games involve killing people (although typically you play the good guy anyway) but i cannot see Mario cause everyone to start raping (although Peach could do with putting out for all he has done for her!).

    on a slight side note... parents stop buying your kids 18 rating games! You are not f**king idiots, check the age!

  • ruttyboy #48 4 years ago

    I've devised a 'win-win' plan for this situation.

    Someone should create a 'Concentration Camp Building' game in the vein of Sim City or what have you and challenge Mr. Vaz to play it for 3 weeks straight. Obviously this is a program specifically for this purpose, not for general release before anyone gets upset. After the play session his behaviour is monitored and if he starts to round up people into camps he can be arrested and removed that way, if however he doesn't, he's proven his own argument to be fatuous and his credibility is also removed. As I said, win fucking win.

  • urban #49 4 years ago

    twats

  • bad09 #50 4 years ago

    "So the guy can not be bothered to even learn a little about the subject he is attacking."

    Welcome to UK government...........

  • thepiedpiper #51 4 years ago

    where can i get this game that lets you rape women?

  • Rodafowa #52 4 years ago

    Anybody happen to catch Julian Brazier on Five Live last Friday? He came on spouting nonsense, half-truth and innuendo in much the same vein as the quotes from the article, decrying the laxity of British film censorship in general and the role of the BBFC in particular. Then they wheeled out the mighty Mark Kermode, their resident film critic, who proceeded to hand Brazier an enjoyably thorough verbal kicking.

    Gave me a chuckle, anyway.

  • Killdare #53 4 years ago

    The real worry here is that Keith Vaz must know the full facts behind the Stefan Pakeerah case but still continues to peddle his distorted version of events in order to get his name in the papers. As he was Pakeerah's MP I find it wholly incredible that he would not be aware of the fact Leicestershire police specifically ruled out any link to Manhunt and made it clear the game belonged to the victim, not the assailant.

  • Lukus #54 4 years ago

    It's quite amazing that someone paid quite a high sum of money to do their job is so utterly useless at it that not only are they churning out old arguments that have already been dismissed by pretty much every authority, they can't even be bothered to find out the name of a console, and they're actually resorting to what are essentially lies to make a scapegoat out of something they don't, and won't even take the time or effort to try to, understand.

  • Landmaster #55 4 years ago

    Women will still be raped, regardless...

  • mossychops001 #56 4 years ago

    What is one doings?

  • bad09 #57 4 years ago

    @ Rodafowa

    Thanks for the tip I googled it, what a complete tosser! Great respect to Kermode for tearing him a new one!

    Everyone should hear this utter prat try to blame movies for rape and compare "battle" to solve the "problem" to stopping child porn! This man SHOULD NOT be making decisions for our country!!

    Games don't make me want to kill these w*****s do!

    Here's a link for the show Rodafowa was talking about.

    [link url=http://www.melon farmers.co.uk/bw.htm
    ]http://www.melon farmers.co.uk/bw.htm
    [/link]

  • bad09 #58 4 years ago

    @ frod

    Yeah but you answered it yourself "a link between exposing children to mature content and increased aggression, both in games and films. "

    CHILDREN....parents sort your lives out get your head out your butts and PARENT your kids

  • silver-jon #59 4 years ago

    "parappa the raper" - dudefather, that is absolutely brilliant.

    Dum derdle doobah der der dum dee derrr
    "Gag the victim . . . (gag the victim) . . . tie the hands . . . (tie the hands) . . . "
    Ok, it's a very sick joke. But it's got me giggling at the thought of that cartoony character saying something so perverse.


    btw: the problem with too many politicians is that they are motivated by a sense of personal power. They crave influence. And to have influence one must have some kind of control. They don't like the fact that they cannot have organisations accountable to them.
    And, it has to be said, the games industry does itself no favours by constantly courting controversy.

    Anyway the whole thing reminds me of the comedian Sean Lock, who has a routine about mutilating and killing an imaginary animal (is it a panda ?) and then pointing out to the audience that it doesn't matter. It doesn't exist.
    I think it was a parrot.

  • bad09 #60 4 years ago

    @ frod

    That is part of the issue, I agree. Like Margaret Hodge said wait for the Byron report which addresses (hopefully) all the issues, but these fools Vaz and Brazer are talking complete nonsense with no intelligent argument, which is a different matter completely....

  • bad09 #61 4 years ago

    @ frod

    Well we can only hope this Byron report works out the way it should. We all know what the problem is like you say it's not treated as it it should, for adults.

    But you know I don't know if I can agree with that 100%. When I was young (right or wrong) I saw many "banned" horror flicks in the 80's. From the ages of 7-8 I saw movies like Evil Dead, Exorcist, Spit on your Grave etc, add to that I LOVE violent games. You may gasp in horror but I'm not crazy or violent (I think?) and ALWAYS knew it wasn't real, just effects and actors or just a game. I KNEW what entertainment was and still do, so do my friends and everyone I've ever met for that matter.

    So why has that changed now?

  • RexRunti #62 4 years ago

    Guys, the way to handle this is to write, a stroppy but polite letter to your local MP or to a the leader/culture representative of the party you are most likely to vote for. (Either by letter or e-mail.)

    Avoid swearing, silly references which no non-gamer would understand. Instead grab some figures off the ELSPA website stating that the average age of of a video game player is in their early thirties, point out that Britain is the worlds third largest producer of video games and dispel as many myths as you can (if you can acuse Kieth Vaz et al of wilfully distorting the facts and mention again that the police, defence, prosecuters found no link what so ever with Manhunt in Vaz's oft used example in which it was the victim who owned the game not the murderer. Also feel free to point out that it is illegal to sell BBFC rated video games to people below the age stated with penalties ranging from fines to imprisonment.

    Close by lamenting how your hobby is constantly used as a scape goat for societies ills with no evidence to back it up and mention that you would not vote for a party/politician that curtiles personal freedoms so much.

    Generally just have a quiet and respectful rant. I would put an example letter up here but copied and pasted letters are soon spotted and get ignored (feel free to post any responses though).

    I did get a good response from David Cameron('s people) when I wrote to him after he had his rant on video games last year.

  • bad09 #63 4 years ago

    @ Frod

    "I don't think that you're qualified to psychoanalyse yourself ;)"

    I'm gonna KILL YOU for that!!! Where's my Manhunt hammer? :)

  • Grayvern #64 4 years ago

    I wish Mp's would deall with the fact that the fucking rape conviction rate has gone down since the 70's (and not because more people are reporting it.) From 30% to less than 9%. And the fact that 1 in 5 women will be on the recieving end of some form of sexual violence in their lives. Rarther than buying into moral panics.

    Women are raped because of the dominant societal discourse not videogames.

    I guess its because they all do degrees in politics not sociology, and thus cant provide any useful social commentary past a self serving sycophantic ode to the white middle class nuclear family. (Ie one of the smallest and therefore what should be the least important elements of society.)

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #65 4 years ago

    Britain is the worlds third largest producer of video games

    Fourth, now, we've been overtaken by those cunning bastard Canucks. I suppose if you're writing a strppy letter to your MP, you could put in a request that they raise a bill for Candanian-style tax breaks for UK-based games developers :)

  • Muddtallica #66 4 years ago

    Rodofowa, ba09, thanks for pointing me in the direction of that Brazier/Kermode debate, it was very interesting. I don't normally think a great deal of Kermode, but you can't deny that he can speak persuasively when needs be; h certainly nailed Brazier on the point about Irreversible. That movie is about as much of an "incitement to rape" as 101 Dalmatians is an advertisement for the fur trade, or Schindler's List is an endorsement of genocide.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #67 4 years ago

    Doesn't like videogames, though, Mark Kermode. He's with Ebert on the games-as-art worthiness debate.

  • nickthegun #68 4 years ago

    Yeah, all the screaming and shouting by both idiot parties masks the real issue.

    We do need a fully clarified advisory body to certify games and legislation to punish people who sell 18 games to kids.

    Then, hopefully, everyone will just shut the fuck up.

  • Slamhound #69 4 years ago

    Hilarious political drama ahoy!

  • kangarootoo #70 4 years ago

    Following on from frod's link.

    More news commentary.
    [link url=http: //news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6220530.html
    ]http://ne ws.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-62205...[/link]

    The actual paper referenced in frod's link.
    [link url=ht tp://www.apa.org/journals/releases/dev392201.pdf
    ]http://ww w.apa.org/journals/releases/dev...[/link]

    Some general stuff about media violence research, including some common critisisms (one of which references Huesmann's own work).
    [link url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_violence_research
    ]http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_viole...[/link]


    None of it is clear cut by any stretch. Its far from a simple or black and white issue, and its always a shame to see posters coming out with an opposite version of the same nonsense that KV been spouting (don't mean you at all btw frod, just in case that seems implied).

    Safe to say none of us on here really understand the issues fully and we would all look a bit smarter if we accepted that and tried to inform ourselves. Keith Vaz is clearly a cock, but lets not let that completely cloud the issue. Whether KV can be arsed to research any of the words that come out of his mouth AT ALL does not mean there is no substance whatsoever in the suggestion that media influences behaviour by degrees.

  • kangarootoo #71 4 years ago

    Let me add my support to the "lets enforce age ratings properly" campaign also.

    A fucking HUGE fine for any vendor selling a game to an underage customer, and an equally massive fine for a parent doing the same (unenforcable as such a thing would be, but I can dream) would help to nip that shit in the bud quick smart.

  • VMerken #72 4 years ago

    Well, Vaz wasn't sure about the portables them youngsters are using these days, so maybe he actually meant to talk about the Nintendo DS and how them youngsters are playing localised copies of that witch-touching thingy which caused a stir a while back and which shall remain nameless here, yet is available to minors in shops everywhere?

  • MightyMouse #73 4 years ago

    Mind you I do think that the ratings need looking at. I remember being amazed that Myth was rated 15 many years ago, but then personally I don't see why there need be ratings other than 18. Ah well, it's a different debate and I freely confess to knowing none of the facts.

  • smelly #74 4 years ago

    >where can i get this game that lets you rape women?

    search for "battle raper" on torrent illegally.

    But as was said.. that would never and will never be released in this country so it doesnt count.

  • hjarg #75 4 years ago

    [link url=http://en.wikiped ia.org/wiki/Biko_3
    ]http://en.wikiped ia.org/wiki/Biko_3
    [/link]

    This one as well. 2 in 1 package- stalking and raping :D

    These japs are crazy, i tell ya. Prolly illegal in UK as well and prolly anyone without serious brain damage doesn't play them.

  • dominalien #76 4 years ago

    Finally, Playstation and Xbox fanboys can unite against a common enemy.

  • Grayvern #77 4 years ago

    Psychological links between violence and games may be proven but then so is the link between Domestic Violence and men after their football team has lost.

    But no one talks of banning football.

    Finally to engage in an enjoyable past time mud slinging at psychologists. The meb who largelypopularised and gave birth to psychology Carl Jung and Freud, were respectively a devout Christian and an man who wanted to be a writer all his life, based his theories on greek mythology, and served mainly a white middle class female clients...

    Psychology is like the man who built his house on the sand, unstable foundations.
    That and unlike other subjects it tends not to want to reinforce its foundations by criticising its past masters like say any other academic discipline ever.
    Edited by 1 at 04/03/08 @ 23:49

  • ZuluHero #78 4 years ago

    @lambtron, aldo_14, smelly & Whizzo,

    ...but they do exist ;)
    Edited by 1 at 05/03/08 @ 11:27

  • vacuumgarden #79 4 years ago

    Vaz is a fearmongering tool, much like Gordie and most of the Labour front-bench. His lies don't surprise me.

  • louyfitz #80 4 years ago

    This guy is fucking idiot! do some research (or at least no the name of the console) you fuck-tard!

    Before I frag you! I saw it in Doom and it looked fun!

    Or I could put him in an oven (thanks Frank Castle)