Revolution to be '2.5 times more powerful than Cube'

By Games Industry.biz Published 7 December, 2005

More advanced kits going out.

Developers speaking to GamesIndustry.biz this week have commented that the the Revolution console, hardware kits for which began shipping to third parties recently, is shaping up to be around 2.5 times more powerful than GameCube.

Up until the past week or so, developers close enough to Nintendo's inner circle to have seen any Revolution hardware were working with development kits that were simply GameCube kits with mock-ups of the "wand" controller attached - a clear signal, if any were required, that the system is more about innovative control than about the hardware specs.

Now, however, Nintendo has spoken to developers in more depth about its hardware plans for the new system - and has begun shipping more advanced development kits to selected third-parties, featuring early versions of some of the chips which will appear in the final console.

An article published by US website IGN this morning revealed some details of the console, and several developers today have spoken to GamesIndustry.biz to help fill in the gaps.

The picture we're building up of the final console is as follows: the system will be powered by the IBM CPU codenamed Broadway, which is very similar to the Gekko CPU used in the GameCube, but runs at around twice the clock speed and offers potentially two to three times the overall performance, and the ATI graphics chip codenamed Hollywood.

While Broadway is well-understood by developers, the ATI part remains "a bit of a black box", according to one senior developer we spoke to. "We have theoretical throughput figures and stats from Nintendo, but nobody's seen the hardware yet - we're just treating it like it's a faster version of the GameCube GPU, at the moment."

How much faster exactly it will be remains to be seen, but the chip - which "seems to be an evolution of the Radeon range" according to our source - will probably mirror the CPU by running at around twice to three times the speed of the existing part.

In terms of RAM, the system is well-known to boast 512MB of Flash RAM which can be used to store save games and downloaded content, but this will not be accessible to developers, we were told. What they'll have available is 96MB of main memory, built on the same 1T-SRAM architecture as the Cube, and "a few megs here and there for other stuff" - such as 3MB of on-board memory on the graphics chip, which will be used for a frame buffer. "That's plenty, since the Revolution isn't supporting HDTV," one developer added.

As for the storage media the Revolution will use, "they're pretty much standard DVDs," we were told, with capacity similar to current PS2 and Xbox discs. "The only clever thing about the drive, really, is that you can put the little Cube discs into it despite being a slot-loading drive - I think that's the first time you've been able to do that with a slot loader."

In other words, what Nintendo is planning to ship is a system which is no more than around twice to three times as powerful as the current generation GameCube - indeed, more than one developer who has access to the hardware specs suggested "about 2.5 times the power" as the benchmark for the new system.

Although this makes the Revolution significantly less powerful than the PS3 or Xbox 360, developers we spoke to were upbeat about the machine.

"You can basically treat it like a current generation machine," one told us. "The time it'll take to ramp up to developing on this is basically nil - we can just work on a PC or maybe an Xbox, and then improve the quality of our assets when we move to the Revolution. Or even work on a Cube, in fact. The libraries are very similar."

"We could do a game for this in a few months," commented another developer. "Developing games is going to be easy, the challenge is going to be using the controller properly."

The approach mirrors Nintendo's strategy with the DS, which is far less powerful than its rival the PlayStation Portable but offers an innovative interface which has been a hit with gamers and has had major success in the mass market.

Crucially, the low specification will also allow Nintendo to score a victory in terms of pricing; speculation is already rife that the Revolution could enter the marketplace at $149 or even lower, suggesting a sub-GBP 100 price point at a time when the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 still retail for three times that price.

Picture of Games.

About Games Industry.biz

Read more articles from Games by visiting the Games Industry.biz archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (155) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • quantumsheep #1 6 years ago

    Red for Revolution, eh? Nice =)

  • Toonster #2 6 years ago

    2nd post!

    I don't mind the underpowerment, I just want some bloody games.

  • Fatfish #3 6 years ago

    Not sure it's going to work Nintendo, but I have my fingers crossed for you. I would be the first to revel in your 'return to form' and a second coming of the Nintendo golden age............unfortunately, my scepticism leads me to suspect the release of the Revolution may not be it!

    Although, for sub £100 and being able to play the old Nintendo back catalogue, you may still achieve a good following and fan base. I know I'd buy it purely for the snes Zelda!

  • quantumsheep #4 6 years ago

    My cousin, who's in her 40s and never plays games got addicted to Zoo Keeper just last night.

    It was the control method. She can't work out 'traditional' controllers that we've all grown up with.

    But give her a stylus and off she goes!

    I have high hopes for the Rev controller. It could take away the boundary that stops non-gamers playing games.

  • ecureuil #5 6 years ago

    I'm pretty sure it'll be a success, but anyone hoping for Nintendo to win this round is having a laugh. I'm happy with the Cube, and I'll be happy with my Rev. We all know a Nintendo system is going to have good first party support, so I think the console will be worth it.

  • DDevil #6 6 years ago

    I think that system needs more...

    oooooh, what's the word...

    MEMORY!

  • GuiltySpark #7 6 years ago

    but just because it has a "wand" controller doesnt mean it will bring in more gamers.

    the only people who will buy this imo are people who really like nintendo and therefore are already gamers.

    anyway i still have to see some f&*king games!.........

  • Batfink #8 6 years ago

    I can imagine my parents buying a revolution.
    That's important.

  • Shinji #9 6 years ago

    the only people who will buy this imo are people who really like nintendo and therefore are already gamers.

    Exactly what everyone said about the DS. You know what? Everyone I know who doesn't already own a DS, wants one. I'm not talking males 18-30 here, I'm talking males and females, friends and family, 8 to 68. You show them how it works and they get it, and they want one.

    If the Revolution is the same, it'll be an incredible hit. It's not about winning the next-gen war. It's about winning the hearts and minds of people who didn't even know they liked videogames before.

  • Talha #10 6 years ago

    Actually it is unfair to expect Ninty to win here - they are simply not going for it. This may sound far fetched but I feel they are letting their handheld side take precedence. Think of it, Revo is so compact, it can easily be hauled around. The cheap price point is sweet, but it won't deter buyers of X360 or PS3 - it just just a couple of hundred more quid investment for them for some machine with vastly superior hardware and expected to last 4-5 years.

    In other words, Ninty are changing the rules. They are in fact carving their own playground - something falling between a handheld and a home console in terms of price and capability. Interesting.

  • Shrui #11 6 years ago

    My lot is usually thrown in with the playstation just because thats where my preferred games sit. Never been a nintendo fan (and I've tried).

    But all it will take is one decent wand controlled sword game and I'll be converted. Especially if they can crack the £100 entry price point!

    *thinks psychic thoughts to Nintendo - lightsabers! lightsabers! lightsabers!....*

  • tengu #12 6 years ago

    Sounds sweet. But still... THAT controller...

  • Lumina #13 6 years ago

    The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. I really believe something like this could help Nintendo immensely,

  • justMe #14 6 years ago

    It's the most exciting thing to happen to video games ever.

    A (gameplay!) revolution.

    Please hurry up Nintendo, I can't wait!

  • Psi #15 6 years ago

    i dont know why people are sceptical? the ds has proved here that ninty could well be back on track.. from the ds we still only on the early games, there will some great ideas still to come on how the machine can be used.

    if you own a ds you'll be foaming at the mouth wanting a rev, ninty just seem to be on the ball now. sony and m$ have the cash to get the high spec'd hardware out there and thats where ninty can't really size upto them. but who's honestly seen a leap in gfx this genjump? it's not as impressive as say... nes to snes... or snes to ninty64?

    the genjump in gfx is getting smaller and smaller we're reaching a peak like the pc market where gamers realise there's no point in spending £200 more on the next gen gfx card... 6800 or 7800 what we talking 10fps at the end of the day?

    build em cheap ensure the gfx gap isn't soo far gone its embarrising and give us this controller we're all dying to wave around the place!

    honestly i'd love a game where u have to wave planes in and get em sorted quick to land

  • smelly #16 6 years ago

    2.5 times more powerful than the cube is STILL f*cking powerful.

    Graphically the 360 isnt THAT much more powerful, and it has to cope with hi-def.

  • spillz #17 6 years ago

    great second system for 360/PS3 owners if the price is right

  • Psi #18 6 years ago

    2.5 times, also sounds a hell of a lot like crap too. where does that fit in with what you see on screen?

    let us see the games, numbers like that are pointless... 2.5 er 3 times? knock it off 360 etc played the numbers game a while back and we're not interested in that side of the system

  • Feanor #19 6 years ago

    This low price strategy is going to fall flat if the Revolution coms out a year after the 360 and the 360 has already had a decent price drop.

  • #20 6 years ago

    Nintendo are putting their name on the line so if it flops they may suffer a lot. - bengalibengali (what a funny name for a kid)

    if revolution goes to pot then they're absolutely screwed - supermonkey

    With several billion dollars in liquid assets and Nintendo's own first-party games to showcase the Rev hardware and controller, I highly doubt any of these two scenario's will come to fruition. Remember also, Nintendo will be looking to profit from Rev hardware from day one. Just like the DS.

  • smelly #21 6 years ago

    Right, Let look at this logically.

    If the CPU is 2.5 times more powerful, that'll mean it'll roughly run at about speed of 3 or 4 ghz pc. That's STILL quite powerful (more powerful than most pcs)

    If the GPU is 2.5 times more powerful, then you're looking at about roughly 2.5 times more powerful than a radeon 9600, So I'd say appx the speed of the fastest graphics card on market at the moment (maybe more).


    Sure, the 360 and ps3 have multi-processors, which in theory if run totally optimally could outperform it. In reality that wont happen, and as most gamers care more about graphics than cpu power - you see where im coming from.

    With the graphics power, again, not quite as good as the other 2, but it's not running at hi-def, so it'll be able to push more around wont it? Think about running yer favourite pc game with the resolution turned down so you can then turn the detail up to max.

    I reacon for the most part (unless comparing against hidef tv) you wont be able to tell differences between most of the games in terms of power. But lets wait and see.

  • Adfield #22 6 years ago

    2.5 times more powerfull?? that may not be as much as the competition, but it sounds damn fine to me.

    I recently bought pikmin 2 and upon firing it up was still mighty impressed by the visuals - in the rev can boost that by 2 times PLUS giving me the (manly) option of waving my pikmin around with the wand then consider me sold.

    Edited by 1 at 07/12/05 @ 18:46

  • Nikanoru #23 6 years ago

    I'm a big Ninty fanboy as you might have noticed, and I'm all for leaving Sony and MS to fight over the attention of the MTV kiddies and tech spec tards, while Nintendo carry on to actually advance gaming.

    But...I can't help but feel slightly disappointed. :( Even though I know I shouldn't...

  • Psi #24 6 years ago

    Nikanoru you shouldnt mate, dwell on it a while and you'll realise it's just a number. don't mean crap on how the visuals will look like. wait for the games before you get depressed lol

  • SirScratchalot #25 6 years ago

    2.5x the cube is massive....
    Take RE4 to 2.5x and it looks at least as nice as the MGS4 trailer.
    Hell, even gears of war is running on one processor core and big N seem to have prioritized cache which is a real choke point for processors. I think this thing might surprise you.

  • mr_steve100 #26 6 years ago

    I don't want logic! I want Revolution!! Want Want Want!!!
    Gaaah!!!! (notice the increasing number of exclamation marks).

    Anyway, as much as I want Nintendo to be competitive with the next-gen (or should have be current-gen?) Xbox360 and PS3, I don't think that they will and I suspect that's what Ninty are feeling too (and quite possibly some of you lot who have commented - I've not read them all). But like everyone else has said, Ninty are great at producing innovative gaming and generally giving us gamers a load of fun to be had with their first-party games.

    Nontheless, it's good to hear that they have started dishing out the dev-kits to developers to play with and have a think about the possibilities. Boy, why can't I write anything controversial for you lot to shout at me about - I'm sooo boring.

  • rodpad #27 6 years ago

    Well if we're being pedantgic about specs here...
    You do realise the Gamecube has a 450mhz processor? Meaning 2.5 times that equals a measly 1.1Ghz processor?

  • Tomo #28 6 years ago

    Personally, I think it's wise going from Ninty. I especially liked the comment from the dev who said games could be developed in a few months. Admittedly, this could lead to games being churned out, but it could also mean companies have more time to think about what they're doing.

    I have to admit, I think my PS3 will look pretty nice beside this. Should be a good year 2006!

  • pantherboy #29 6 years ago

    The cpu power will not hurt developers but the stingy ram definatly will - At the min I would have expected 256 but ideally 512.

  • Pho-Zoon #30 6 years ago

    This is going to be one nifty little machine.

    Any improvement on this generation's graphics is good enough for me, they're impressive as they are.

  • justMe #31 6 years ago

    "You do realise the Gamecube has a 450mhz processor? Meaning 2.5 times that equals a measly 1.1Ghz processor?"

    Now imagine a 1.1Ghz PC processor with a top of the line graphics card, both interfaced with optimized hardware and auxiliary chips. Imagine this setup running dedicated games software, optimized to take advantage of 100% of the available processing power. It will leave a current gaming PC in the dust...

    Good enough for me, I would buy a "wand powered" gamecube in a heartbeat.

  • richardiox #32 6 years ago

    Hadn't even thought about the potential for a Rev version of Pikmin, very nice. In the Revolution trailer, where they're assumed to be using the controller to direct a flashlight, everyone immediately thought of Resident Evil but my moneys on a Luigis Mansion 2 at release. Seeing as Ninty only did one game in the Super Mario series for the Cube they've had plenty of time to pour time and ideas into the next one which again, I assume (and hope), will be a Rev launch title.

    I seem to remember the Cube launch was slightly marred by the lack of a Mario game so surely they'll be wanting to have the next one out alongside the Rev launch - hopefully full of benchmark setting gameplay and control innovations to really showcase it's ability to do something really new.
    Edited by 1 at 07/12/05 @ 19:23

  • smelly #33 6 years ago

    You do realise the Gamecube has a 450mhz processor?

    It's a 450mhz CUSTOM processor. Just comparing mhz is meaningless. What's better - a 2ghz P2 or a 500mhz P4? See?

    The only REAL way of calculating cpu power is in flops, but even that is flawed quite significantly (especially when calculating for multi-processor machines, as there will be NO WAY every single processor will EVER be used 100% all the time).


    To put this into some kind of perspective (using numbers grabbed off the web), the xbox runs at 733mhz and 2.9gflops. The PS2 runs at 300mhz and 6.2gflops. I.E. In terms of processing power the ps2 is MORE POWERFUL despite having a lower clock rate. But yet gamers only care about the fact the graphics look better on the xbox. See?


    Oh, and this generation the cube has the LEAST powerful cpu out of all 3 machines (by quite a margin), but graphically it wees all over the ps2 from a great height, and is almost on par with the xbox.
    Edited by 1 at 07/12/05 @ 19:28

  • Xerx3s #34 6 years ago

    Hmmm, im a bit concerned though. The rev will be 2 times as strong as the gc. The xbx was about 2 times as strong as the gc and the xb2 is about 5 times as strong as the xbx. Ahhh well, ninty will blow them aweh. If they manage to get a fair ammount of adult games on it (a shooter & horror survival game at launch plz ;p)....

  • smelly #35 6 years ago

    Hmmm, im a bit concerned though. The rev will be 2 times as strong as the gc.

    Gah! It DOESNT say that!!. Its says the Rev PROCESSOR is 2.5 times faster than the cube. As I said above, the PS2's PROCESSOR is almost 3 times faster than the xbox's!!!

    And if you look at the capabilities of the 360's graphics (for example) you'll see graphically the 360 isn't THAT much more powerful than the xbox anyhow (I reacon maybe 3 times more powerful)

  • The12thMonkey #36 6 years ago

    Go Ninty! Wooo!

    Seriously though, I can't wait for the Rev. Everything I have seen thus far leaves me impressed. The numbers really don't matter. In fact, I found myself struggling (without online assistence) to tell my mate the specs of my 360 (Not to say that I don't like my 360 - it's aces, in fact).

    I also know that one of the first things I will do opn my new Rev when I grab that, will be to download Golden Eye and have a 4 player blast with an old favourite.

  • Carlo #37 6 years ago

    This is gonna kick ass.

    At that price, everyone will be picking (a PS3 *or* a 360), *AND* a Rev.

    Theoretically, the Rev could end up being the largest console base... Sony fanboys hate the 360. MS fanboys hate the PS3.

    No-one *hates* the Revolution because they arn't making the fanboys make a choice, the fanboys can be 'comfortable' owning a Rev and the other console of their affections.

    Also, the Rev fanboys will be able to buy a Rev, and 'try out' one of the other consoles...

  • velocity_girl #38 6 years ago

    Another plus point is that as X360 and PS3 are potentially very similar the Revo could be alot of peoples 2nd console.. im looking forward to it..

  • SmoothMartin #39 6 years ago

    If the Cube gave us the almost perfect Resident Evil 4, just think what could be possible with the Revolution given the right developer, especially as they say it's easy to code for.

  • vandy404 #40 6 years ago

    Seriously this is some of the most pointless speculation ever. 3 times 2.5 times more powerful? How do you quantify that? You can't - there is no way. 3 times more bunny rabbits, 2.5 more times chocolate sauce? This is pure fluff. Until we actually see something you can't make any judgement.

    The only thing we have seen so far is the controller - and that is awesome. The most interesting development since erm, well the DS.

  • immateriaux #41 6 years ago

    Going back to when all the announcements were made re gen 3 XBox and PS3 etc I never thought I'd buy the Nintendo option but now it by far interests me most. I really like what Nintendo are trying to do, focus on gameplay issues and innovation etc while leaving Microsoft and Sony to brag on about the size of their respective balls. I'll definitely buy the Revolution when it comes out now, especially with that price attached.

  • Chtulie #42 6 years ago

    The cpu power will not hurt developers but the stingy ram definatly will - At the min I would have expected 256 but ideally 512.

    Keep in mind, when you play Metroid Prime, or Resi 4, or other fantastic looking games, that those games are running on a console with a 450 MHz processor and 24Mb of Ram.

    The Free Radical people had a nice comment on the gamecube hardware design:
    "it's a great machine - particularly from our point of view. It's very balanced - the CPU and graphics performance are kind of hand in glove, and we're not limited on either of them."
    ( http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=55591 )

  • mouse Verified Graphic designer, Eurogamer Network #43 6 years ago

    "the Cube will be powered by the IBM CPU codenamed Broadway, which is very similar to the Gekko CPU used in the GameCube"

    Eh?

  • Schwabing #44 6 years ago

    yep 2.5x the power of a cube sounds high to me, esp as no hi-res option.

    seems to me that optimisation on a system is capable of delivering great improvements - compare xbox farcry or forza to xbox launch titles.

    Trying to say - if rev is sufficiently similar to GC we might see games taking more advantage of the system earlier.

    however: may not be that the console is either as cheap or as powerful as expected - reasoning being that Nintendo make a point of selling hardware at a profit (unlike Sony or MS). So, can they really source half a gig of flash mem, a 3-4ghz processor, great graphics card, make the kit and sell it at £100 for profit? dunno.

    Depends how desperate they are.

    I would buy one at that price in a moment.

  • Teeth #45 6 years ago

    53rd comment!

  • vandy404 #46 6 years ago

    I very much doubt a £100 starting point is likely. More like £149 if reports are to be believed. Starting at £100 provides very little in the way of price leverage later on in the cycle.

  • tobs #47 6 years ago

    Always gone with the PS1/2 but would definitely buy this if it is same price as a DS!!! Would get a PS3 too though, as Sony are innovators too - I bought my PS2 as a DVD player, if blu-ray takes off will be the same for PS3.

    Also, I think too much is being made of the controller, it will come with an attachment to act as a normal controller, I believe, and I hope we won't see a spate of early games using the remote gimick for the sake of it...

    Bottom line for Ninty to make a big comeback they need a killer app...

  • captain-future #48 6 years ago

    excited. 99 EUR plus Zelda Revo ARE GO!!

  • Stakker #49 6 years ago

    Misc comments...

    1) 2.5 times the power of the Cube (whatever that means) is plenty of power. Since there's no HD, a lot of the power is saved for making the games look otherwise probably reasonably close to PS3 & 360 level. At least close *enough*, in any case. And Nintendo is always conservative with their estimates.

    2) Since it looks like Revolution games can be developed with reasonable budgets and small teams, it certainly seems likely we could see more small studio titles. Also, it is more likely we'll see some experimental titles since the risk for publishers is smaller than for other consoles. Xbox 360 Live might be a contender in this area too, but I'm not sure if people are ready to download games any larger than a few megabytes. Or how many actually download games at all? But we'll see...

    3) It seems that the 2006 release date looks very much possible :-)

  • sneaker #50 6 years ago

    isnt anyone worried about lack of HD support ? Its not really an issue now, but two years down the line the Revolution may start looking really tatty on high-def huge displays, especially as developers begin really flexing the PS3 and X360 later on.

    Just a thought. Im not hating , I LOVE the controller so much

  • captain-future #51 6 years ago

    I've not planned to buy a HDTV set in the next few years... probably not until the next-next-gen arrives.

    I'm very content with how X360 looks on my standard TV so no need to spend money on that.

  • zErOb_cOOl #52 6 years ago

    Sooooo. The Revolution is as powerful as an XBox with a funny controller.

    But seriously, its all about the games and I honestly hope Ninty show Sony and Microsoft its not all about 1up-manship of hardware specs and, indeed, great games sell consoles. But we all know that of course ;)

  • Nikanoru #53 6 years ago

    Sooooo. The Revolution is as powerful as an XBox with a funny controller.

    What you're saying is that you think the Xbox is 2.5 times as powerful as the Cube?

    HaHAH!

    Or did you mean the Xbox360?

  • morriss #54 6 years ago

    63rd!!

    I've always said I'll own 2 consoles, the 360 and Rev.

    I had an Xbox and a Cube but now I've got teh 360. Can't wait 'til Ninty brings out their next offering.

    /drools
    Edited by 1 at 07/12/05 @ 22:17

  • Malakhai #55 6 years ago

    As much as I love Nintendo, I really think they are relying on a come from behind victory. I keep seeing people on this thread wanting this as a secondary system, and if Ninty can sneak up and blow everyone away with good games...well, I would hate to see the aftermath on the message boards, especially from the Xbox and Sony lovers out there. I myself am probably going to get a PS3 and a Rev. But to make an effective bid for console supremacy, they have to make good games. I'm tired of people (namely over here in the states) wanting more hardcore titles in tried-and-true genres on their respective xboxes and ps's, when all i want is just fun games. That is why i got into gaming, and i *hate* it when people take games too seriously. That being said, we'll just have to wait for the naming of titles later on in this war to decide how its all going to down in the end.

  • nightsparkle #56 6 years ago

    great! this is even better than i had hoped for. focussing soley on innovation and not graphics. 3D gaming has been boring me for long enough. And on that pricepoint, i'll be picking it up from day one. hell, i'd even stand in front of a store for a night on launch day.

  • Sid-Nice #57 6 years ago

    What would it cost to make the Revolution HDTV compatible? When Sony and Microsoft battled over which format was the better between Blu-Ray and HD DVD? Nintendo said "They wanted to keep the hardware cost to minimum and were not considering using HD DVD or Blu-Ray." Imagine Resident Evil on the Cube in High Definition? Last night I played PES5 on the Xbox 360; the graphics looked a lot better than on the original Xbox, the game still suffered from lag on-line though.

  • onyxbox #58 6 years ago

    I think games on the rev will look as good as 360 games when viewed on an ordinary tv and thats fine by me... I'm in no hurry to go HD, I have a perfectly good couple of 28" CRT tv's.

    And I agree with most of the DS / PSP comparisons... I've got them both and the DS doesn't come close to the PSP for graphics and sound (and at times game depth) but you know what... IT DOESN'T matter because:
    <li>it has great games </li>
    <li>it offers something you can't get on ANY other console</li>
    <li>games are intuative and require very little learning to play</li>
    <li>it's cheap</li>

    ...even my missus plays games on the DS !

    I rekon Nintendo are onto something here, it may not appeal to most of us experienced gamers but they do seem to be tapping into a new audience with the DS and I expect the Rev. will be the same. If Nintendo only tap into 10 % of the current 'non gamers' they'll wipe the floor with microsoft and sony simply because the market they're aiming out is f*cking huge compared to the audience that is us.

  • El_MUERkO #59 6 years ago

    So they're aiming it squarely at the 17" portable in the kids room and not the 42" plasma in the sitting room, I can understand that but I still think Nintendo have missed a trick here. Yes they sell alot of games to kids but the also sell alot of games to gamers like myself', will I buy a Rev when it comes out... I dont know but I have a feeling I wont.

  • ProfessorLesser #60 6 years ago

    £129.99 is what it will cost, I'm telling you.

    PS. OMGWTF?!!1one! Bullet points! ^^^^

  • Rez #61 6 years ago

    Even though games aren't going to run in HD resolutions, I'm sure they'll be optimised in some way so they look good on HDTV's.

  • Chtulie #62 6 years ago

    Isn't anyone worried about lack of HD support ?

    As far as I know, it does support HD, it just doesn't require it of games, much like the american versions of current gen cponsoles support certain types of HD, games aren't required to make use of it.

  • GuiltySpark #63 6 years ago

    "You show them how it works and they get it, and they want one."

    just because they want one doesnt mean they will buy it...

    persuading people to buy something new and unique is extremely difficult... just look at any EA game sales compared to say... ico for example

    (i know games and consoles are different but the same should apply)

    its like demos......just because you like the demo of a game.....doesnt nessercarily mean you will buy the full game.

    im sure the people buying the ds's (i know thats a shitload of people) are the people who already play games

    i really dont think the revolution (no matter how good it is) will bring in many new people who have never played games before....by now people have already decided wether or not they like games.

    (IN MY OPINION......im not trying to pass this off as fact...)

    EDIT: im tired....and my spelling is abysmal..
    Edited by 1 at 08/12/05 @ 00:30

  • Inquisitor #64 6 years ago

    Everyones expecting 'unique' games but it seems to imply in the article that ports (of old games) or short development cycle games (you probably need a long development cycle for innovation) may be the outcome.

  • caligari #65 6 years ago

    "they're aiming it squarely at the 17" portable in the kid’s room and not the 42" plasma in the sitting room"

    "Isn't anyone worried about lack of HD support?"

    Plasma this and HDTV that. I spit on it all *spit spit spiiiit*!

    Buying expensive televisions is just so...meh! Not when all that cash could be actually used on GAMES.

    The DS doesn't have HD support or a 42" screen, but hey, it's pretty damn fun.

    Console gaming should be cheap, cheerful and accessible.

    Please leave this sudden obsession with all things 'technical' and ‘jargon-esque’ to the PC gamers (no offense to the PC gamers…but then what the hell are you doing reading this anyway, shouldn’t you be updating your system’s HORSE POWER…it went out of date 2 minutes ago!?).

    Oh, and where the hell is Sega's new console?


    Edited by 1 at 08/12/05 @ 01:01

  • GuiltySpark #66 6 years ago

    "Oh, and where the hell is Sega's new console?"


    hmmmmmm


    console heaven?

  • vandy404 #67 6 years ago

    "Oh, and where the hell is Sega's new console?"

    Belgium.

  • Inquisitor #68 6 years ago

    Its not in heaven, its resting.

    Hopefully with all the sleep its had recently it can emerge victorious in the next-next generation console wars ;)

  • Kami #69 6 years ago

    My PC is going to be pretty safe for a while thanks.

    But yeah, I buy consoles because they have different styles of games that are often not ported to PC. I enjoy both PC and console gaming. These days, my PC is more in tune with WoW, and my consoles provide the change.

    But any-dang-way. Nintendo sold me on the controller and the virtual console. Personally, I couldn't give a rats prostate about specs (though I do notice these weren't officially released by Nintendo) - give me some pretty games... no, scratch that. Give me Zelda on the Revolution. The world will be a happier place.

  • Luigi #70 6 years ago

    People... some of you are too focused on power. You know the preliminary specifications of the machine and start making predictions that the games will suck, it's way less powerful than the 360 and PS3. Talking about power, i've played a few games in a 360 and I wasn't too excited, at least at the moment. The graphics are great, for sure, but it's more of the same. The same games with better graphics. The first thing in a game it is not the graphics. It's an important feature but it's not the primary one. Remember the old Spectrum games? They all sucked in terms of graphics (Dan Dare III and R-Type were great) but the gameplay and originality was awsome. Know why? The developers had to figure it out how to design and create games in a rudimentary piece of hardware. So, great & original games makes people go buy a console, no matter what logo (nintendo,sony or microsoft) are on it. That why I have a PS2. It's not because I fancy Sony or something, it's because it has the type of games that I enjoy. Test it first, don't start making judgments just for reading the Specifications Sheet. Big Salut from Portugal.

  • Talha #71 6 years ago

    " So, great & original games makes people go buy a console, no matter what logo (nintendo,sony or microsoft) are on it. That why I have a PS2. It's not because I fancy Sony or something, it's because it has the type of games that I enjoy. Test it first, don't start making judgments just for reading the Specifications Sheet. Big Salut from Portugal."

    Big Salut to YOU, Luigi. You should post more often. For the record I must state that I witnessed better post here than I would at any PS3 or XBox360 forum. Way to go Nintyheads.

    Echoing some of the posters above, I think it will make a great second system beside a PC/PS3/X360 and secretly I think that is what Ninty are going after. After all, you wouldn't be very comfortable handing over your X360/PS3 and entire games catalogue to your young one/wife, but you would do so with any Ninty system, eyes closed, due to its ease of play and instant appeal.

    @Frod: I agree, mate - didn't think of that.

  • vandy404 #72 6 years ago

    Ultimately all you really need to remember about the relative power of these consoles is that it will only be easily detectible for those with HDTV's. And that isn't a majority, not by a long stretch, I don't see prices falling fast enough to change this for at least a couple of years yet.

  • Malakhai #73 6 years ago

    Talha: For the record I must state that I witnessed better post here than I would at any PS3 or XBox360 forum. Way to go Nintyheads.

    I wonder why that is...

  • Talha #74 6 years ago

    @Malakhai : May I be realistic? Of course not taking anything away from the quality of the posts, but it is because GameCube fans have precious few things to cheer about right now, since Ninty is comprehensively beaten (at least in the sales stakes) in the home console market and games are few and far between.

    Also, it might have something to do with the fact that GC features precious few FPS/Racing/Hack & Slash games of the conventional variety, so it doesn't instill its players with the same degree of agression and swagger - in other words, it makes better human beings out of them! ;-)

    @vandy404 : You have a fair point but I don't agree - the power of X360 (and probably) PS3 is also readily apparent apparent on a normal TV - more animation, larger backgrounds, better particle effects are something you can detect on any screen. Of course that applies to Revo as well - meaning that it won't require HDTV to makes its games look next gen. Also, if you hook any console into a good monitor with the right cables, you get a pretty good HD display.



    @
    Edited by 2 at 08/12/05 @ 06:50

  • Malakhai #75 6 years ago

    @ Talha: Thanks. I needed some rationale. I look at all the other console posts, and the rabid and indelicate attacks on the other systems...makes me kind of wonder why I bother at all when it is apparent that *some* people don't love the games, but the argument surrounding their preffered side. And I will agree, the Gamecube really does not compete with the current gen in the traditional sense, and with games like Katamari Damacy for the PS2, it gets a pretty good run for their money in the quirky dept. The civility in this thread is quite refreshing, though. Just to make things fair:

    OMG teh NiNtENd0 will pwn joo xSUX and PStwat!!!!!!!!!11

    heh heh heh... I love doing that... pandering to the groundlings never gets old...

    Oh, and I do know my spelling is atrocious.
    Edited by 1 at 08/12/05 @ 07:11

  • Talha #76 6 years ago

    @Malakhai: Yep mate, things always work when facts (rather than company-sponsored rhetoric, speculation) are the basis. All in all, most forum posters here might not have a Nintendo console, but very few people with the slightest sense of humour and historical perspective, find it in their hearts to be able to say anything bad about Nintendo. Of course, Sony and MS marketing mavens specialise in choice BS, so they are able to elicit extreme reactions and resulting mayhem.

    That said, I really do think that forums at EG are taking a turn for the better.
    Plus if you think YOUR spelling is atrocious, you must not have read these forums a lot.

  • Dizzy #77 6 years ago

    For me the Rev will be about playing old N games and maybe some weirdo games for the girlfriend.

    If it can do that... cool.

  • pikemon #78 6 years ago

    1000x more exciting than Sony and MS. I'm going to lobby all my relatives and friends to buy this (after testing it out myself).

    I believe the gfx leap between PSX/N64 versus PS2/Cube was more significant than the leap will be between PS2/PS3 and Xbox/X360. No one can deny that the gameplay leap provided by Rev controller has the potential to be enormous (executed badly, it can also mean a leap backward).

    From game design perspective, DS is superior to PSP - all PSP has going for it is a big screen and a lot of power (oh yeah, i forgot the... stick). I'm looking forward to same thing happening with Rev versus X360/PS3, but it will not be an easy road for Nintendo as they have "lost the console war" in the eyes of retailers.
    Edited by 1 at 08/12/05 @ 08:52

  • SteveB #79 6 years ago

    I think Nintendo should be applauded for taking gaming in a different direction. Let's face it there is hardly going to be any difference between the PS3 and 360 with a lot of the same games coming out on both, so why would you want a 3rd console that does essentially the same thing ?

  • Artemis_Matsas #80 6 years ago

    My Gamecube gathers dust due to the lack of decent games... I hope that Revolution does better. One thing for sure, i am not buying it unless it gets decent support from the developers.
    As for the back catalogue thing... i can't believe that anyone will buy a new generation console, plug it in their 32-42 inch TVs, and "enjoy" archaic games, no matter how good they were in their day... they just don't hold up any more.

  • Roamer #81 6 years ago

    Dravenclarke: If it's anything like the GC ram, then it's static - i.e. supa-fast! Oh, I'd imagine less RAM is needed for non-HD games.

    2.5 times more powerful than Cube? Most people won't be able to see the difference between this and Xb360 on a normal TV then...

  • kangarootoo #82 6 years ago

    @dravenclarke

    "with only 92mb of ram.. crossplatform titles can be ruled out then? i think that could be its downfall, ram is cheap these days.. why not at least give it 256mb?.. if it means paying an extra 10 - 15 quid at retail then its worth it isnt it?.."

    I think the devs can do a lot to fit a game into a smaller memory footprint. There are quite a few XBox to PS2 ports out there, and while some aspects of graphical quality suffer the gameplay usually remains intact. Hopefully the same will be the case with the next gen too.


    I think those who suggested this would make a great second machine are spot on. A fair number of us have two or more systems already so we are already fine with that idea. If the Rev has a good price it will be come the obvious second choice for many, as bengalibengali suggested.


    Also, what a great thread! Nintendo just makes people happy it seems. Nearly 100 posts and it is still a discussion instead of a shouty match. If anyone trolls on here, please everyone don't respond and lets keep it chatty and interesting (troll type arguments just get repetative sooo quickly). I promise to stick to that too, even though I have been known to flip out on trolls sometimes :)
    Edited by 1 at 08/12/05 @ 09:21

  • SlackMaster #83 6 years ago

    I haven't really been excited about a consle for some time now, and although the 360 looks nice enough or even the PS3 it just doesn't seem as exciting as the Rev.

    At the moment we're just left with possibilities of what might be, but if it's as innovative as the DS and as cheap to then they could be onto a winner. I don't think they are looking to be as popular as say Sony or MS in the gaming crowd but more with people in general.

    It seems that rather than give you a standard controller and standard set of games like MS or Sony are doing they are giving you a different type of controller that is simple to use and immerses you in the game, as your actions (swings, chops etc) actually effect the game rather than just pressing a button. I've very excited about the types of games they will produce as there as just som many posibilites.

  • bigbadbeasty #84 6 years ago

    "Also, what a great thread! Nintendo just makes people happy it seems. Nearly 100 posts and it is still a discussion instead of a shouty match. If anyone trolls on here, please everyone don't respond and lets keep it chatty and interesting" -kangarootoo

    Well said.

    Who knows what to expect from the Revolution. In either the form of games, or real life perfomance. But simply the fact that everyone is excited, even though we have not seen a screenshot is a testament to the fact that graphics really do not matter. The only way MS and Sony have got fans interested has been through HD screenshots etc

  • RandolphScott #85 6 years ago

    sub-GBP 100

    my arse

  • Talha #86 6 years ago

    @bigbadbeasty : Come on - MS and Sony are showing HD screenshots because THEY HAVE GOT THEM. For them, the main selling point of their new consoles is increased graphical prowess and HD capability. Screenshots give a fair indication of the type of game fans can expect, so why scoff over it?

    Ninty have got their controller, and they are peddling around its screenshots. I can't see why one type of screenshots are more exciting than the other. Unless the Revolution does not use a screen at all.

  • AgentCooper #87 6 years ago

    Having read these comments I'm curious.......If Sony or MS released these specs with a wand controller would there have been the same rather odd sudden outporing of "It's not about Specs or GFX !!!" Ninty love that seems to have transpired here ?? Just wondering as I'm pretty sure when the PS2 preview for Resi 4 was posted on this here forum, said Ninty lovers where "Look at the GFX, they are sh1t lol !!!" etc.......

    Perhaps Uncle Clive was indeed correct.........

  • Talha #88 6 years ago

    @AgentCooper : What you are saying can be elegantly summarized as 'sour grapes' but I won't say that here - will ruin the ambience of the thread!!! ;-)

  • bigbadbeasty #89 6 years ago

    You missed the point. It is the fact that the excitment is not based upon screenshots for change! Don't get me wrong 'pretty' is great. But it goes to show that its not be all and end all.

  • alimokrane #90 6 years ago

    Now this is what I cal next generation ! Focus on Innovative gameplay and not powerful machines .. Well done Nintendo ... With you all the way !

  • Talha #91 6 years ago

    @bigbadbeasty : Oh... OK, yes indeed I missed it. You are right of course - raw graphics alone are never enough and yes, it is refreshing to be excited about anything other than that. Especially in this era of PCs which eat through your bank account for a 5% increase in framerate.

  • Tonka #92 6 years ago

    I hope that this time around 3rd party developers will take advantage of the fact that the Nintendo console has a much shorter development cycle. Nintendo talked about this for the Cube but it didn't really take off. Super Monkey ball was developed in how many months now?

    Damn I can't remember...

  • joey #93 6 years ago

    Great comments section people, these are a joy to read. Finally some real discussion. I like the fact that Nintendo try to avoid the great hype machine and just let the games sell the machines.

    While some seem keen to right them off, some interesting figures have appeared regarding just how Nintendo are doing.

    Sales in Japan
    Japan 2004 - Total system sales
    Microsoft - 37,982
    Sony - 3,395,189
    Nintendo - 5,070,676

    Sales in America
    Total Systems sold through July 2004
    Microsoft - 9,367,000
    Sony - 24,433,000
    Nintendo - 30,251,000

    It's from an article that tries to cut through the recent media obsession of Nintendo bashing, and it makes interesting reading.

    It could be argued from this that far from the common assumption that the Rev may be Nintendo's last hope at ever regaining the market - they never actually lost it. While no one can claim the Cube set the world on fire, it did well enough to give Nintendo a very profitable market share.

    My point? Nintendo are entering the next gen in a very strong position, with a low cost, interesting product, which is far from the impression you get from the mass media.

  • Tonka #94 6 years ago

    @joey: Do you have a link to that article? Or is it in a paper magazine?

  • alimokrane #95 6 years ago

    To Joey

    Can you give us a link to the article you are referring to

  • smelly #96 6 years ago

    joey

    Joey, you're correct, the only place nintendo doesnt do so well is europe. Which is probs why they ignore us so much :-(

    But then most english gamers are chavs who only appreciate pretty gangstas who swear a lot.

  • Talha #97 6 years ago

    @joey: Except that what they are entering is purely their own interpretation of next gen, not comparable to/compatible with a world dominated by XBox 360s, PS3s and high end PCs.

    Those figures are impressive, but they do include handhelds right? Actually Ninty are exceptionally strong in the handheld market, and many gamers (including me) feel that they are deliberately conceding ground to Sony/MS in the home console market. Revolution looks to be like the perfect second machine, sort of like a Mazda MX-5, but is simply not geared to become a Focus or a BMW 3 series.

  • smelly #98 6 years ago

    joey

    HANG ON! Those figures are bull! Neither the cube or the xbox has hit more than 30,000,000 sales worldwide!!!!

    Last i checked they were both on the low 20 millions...

  • joey #99 6 years ago

    It's in 2 parts

    http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEFylpkElFffmiBlr.php

    My apologies for the lack of EU data - we are a funny bunch and the figures are tricky to pin down.

    Smelly - just to clear up - it's total system sales, so you are quite correct.
    Edited by 1 at 08/12/05 @ 11:01

  • Razz #100 6 years ago

    "The picture we're building up of the final console is as follows: the Cube will be powered by the IBM CPU codenamed Broadway, which is very similar to the Gekko CPU used in the GameCube"

    Eh? o_O

  • kincaide #101 6 years ago

    Sub £100?? That's spot on - I would defo get one at that price

  • Tonka #102 6 years ago

    I will get one at launch at any price. That's a first for me.

  • Foxis #103 6 years ago


    Joey - are you the author of the article?
    If so, what's your source for the actual figures - do you have a link?

    Not that I distrust the data per se, but before I pass it on myself I'd like to see it backed up. ;)

  • joey #104 6 years ago

    No, it's not me.

    Link is in my post above, it's by Jonathan Coley at Nintendo Insider.

  • smelly #105 6 years ago

    Joey : Including the gboy in those figures is hardly fair is it?

  • alimokrane #106 6 years ago

    Thanks Joey for the link .... The article ignores Europe completely which could be very misleading, I mean pehaps Nintendo was number one in The Japan-US market but I think the addition of the Europe Market could turn things around between microsoft and Nintendo ... not sure though. It would be helpful to see the european figures as well.

  • Kafeen #107 6 years ago

    "Now this is what I cal next generation ! Focus on Innovative gameplay and not powerful machines .. Well done Nintendo ... With you all the way !"

    Yes, but is there any reason why are more powerful machine can't have equally is innovative games? Several current gen games ship with custom controllers of their own. Including something new in the box isn't neccisarilly going to change anything.

    Don't get me wrong, the wand could prove to be interesting although I'm yet to be convinced. Trying to attract non-gamers is quite a risky and possibly deadly stratagy. It's not just the control method that deters non-gamers so simply chaging that to something more user friendly may not be the answer. I very much doubt that a non-gamer is going to go out and buy a new console just because it has a new control method. Also changing something so compulsary to gaming if it isn't done extreamly well you could cut off those gamers you already have. Some of the examples that have been given so far don't sound alot of fun. Cutting vegetables? Yes, that'll attract non-gamers. The first thing my mother wants to do after she's finished making the tea is sit down infront of the TV and cut more veg.

    The spec of the revolution could also prove to be a hinderence. While the 360 and PS3 are both boasting 512MB only offering 96MB to developers on the revolution could deter them from developing cross platform games for the revolution. While this could mean that the Revolution gets more unique games, the total selection of games available could be alot smaller. One thing that could save it would be a low price point. If placed low enough the revolution could see itself as a second console in alot of people's homes but with a potentially smaller software base than the other competators it may struggle to see itself dominating the market.

  • Fubdub #108 6 years ago

    Joey, those numbers do look a bit weird, and what is more, they are all from 2004 and are not very clear what they represent exactly.

    But I do agree with the conclusion. Nintendo are not really in trouble. NGC is way ahead of Xbox in Japan and while I don't know the figures for US a EU, my impression is that it's not doing to badly in the US, and it's actually outselling the Xbox in Europe, with the exception of UK where the Cube has somewhat suffered, mainland Europe seems much more sceptical about the Xbox than the UK for some reason, and while the UK is probably the most important market in Europe, that does still matter.

    Another thing is Nintendo's very sound financial status, unlike MS's gamedepartment which has been losing money almost every quarter since the Xbox was announced, and Sony who is in overall financial trouble, Nintendo consistently come out with with a very respectable profit, and despite having the lowest priced console in current gen, never loses money on hardware sale (I have heard rumours (and they are just rumours) that the actual cost of producing a cube could be as low as $20 per unit)


    On a completely different note. The reason there is so much excitement about the Revolution, something which surely wouldn't be the case if MS or Sony was making it, is that they have really proven themselves with the DS over the last 6 months. I remember right after it was announced at E3 that forums everywhere was bursting with tension of 'lovers' and 'haters' (same when the DS was announced) but by showing that their ideology of providing a different kind of entertainment is more than hot air, and that they can deliver (with 3rd party support) good games that take advantage of it, have made people generally believe in Nintendo for the first time since the 'hate Nintendo' campaign appeared out of nowhere a few years back and scared consumers and developers alike away.

    Sorry about the long post.

  • joey #109 6 years ago

    Yeah, I don't know why there are not figues for Europe, but I assume they are included in the overall figures in the balance sheets.

    Does anyone have the EU figures?

    Smelly - good point - I think the article was looking at the overall performace of the big 3.

    I wonder if things would have been different if Sony had entered the handheld market sooner with something simpler targetted at the GB SP?

  • RandolphScott #110 6 years ago

    Anyone who thinks Nintendo is in trouble is mad.

    However these statistics are possibly misleading. 2004 was a year where Nintendo had pretty much a handheld monopoly. Wasn't the PSP released December 2004 in Japan? It also released a new console that year (unlike any of the other manufacturers). I think these figures (although I suspect are accurate) are from an anonamalous (sp?) time period.

    While Nintendo aren't suffering this paints them as the most successful company. Just to bear in mind when viewing them.

  • AgentCooper #111 6 years ago

    "@AgentCooper : What you are saying can be elegantly summarized as 'sour grapes' but I won't say that here - will ruin the ambience of the thread!!! ;-)"

    @Talha, not sure what you mean mate, was just, in a vague round about way, questioning the whole Jesus syndrome people have with anything Ninty related.

    Oh, and being a windup merchant ;-)

  • alimokrane #112 6 years ago

    @ Fubdub

    You are absolutely right. i guess, I sometimes get carried away since all we here from Micorsft and Sony is POWERFUL MACHINE blah blah. it's true more power will mean better graphics and huge environments but show me what more power can do to refresh the gaming experience and that's certainly what's not being shown. what you said totally makes sense. I mean, at this point, all we know is that the revoultion will have that controller but I guess the faith of the machine and its controller is in the hands of the game developers and what they can do with it.

  • Carpathian #113 6 years ago

    >> Spillz: great second system for 360/PS3 owners if the price is right

    Funnily enough I was going to say that too but you beat me to it.

    At a cheap price point, a history behind the name AND a novelty factor it's going to get picked up as a second machine for gamers with one of the other big two AND people on a casual tip. Spending £300 or £450 against under £100 (rough prices for comparison) makes an almost impulse purshase appealing for this one of the three - get the price under three digits and people have a more serious look.

    When I first saw the "2.5 times the cube" tag I thought it was a terrible thing but the more I think about the latter end titles on the Cube now and then factor in the possible uses of the controller, then the more I'm actually stoked for this.

    I'm not a fanboy for ANY of the camps - good kit is good kit and bad kit.....well, that just blows....but this has a really good shot at getting into homes and getting known.

    Maybe it's just wishful thinking but I'd love to see Nintendo on the up, even if maybe not challenging for the lead just yet - god knows that for all the things they've got laughably wrong over the years they've also been the one to push things into unusual, and sometimes brilliant, directions.

    Now, just get the bloody thing in the shops, ok ?! ;o)

  • bigbadbeasty #114 6 years ago

    There seems to be a little confusion regarding the financial strengh of Nintendo, Sony and MS. We all know that MS have ALOT of money, the orginal Xbox cost them a fortune. But they have the bank balance to back it up. Sony are in alot of financial trouble, and they are taking the bigger risk- with the blu-ray DVD format.
    Edited by 1 at 08/12/05 @ 13:16

  • RobTheBuilder #115 6 years ago

    But judging on past performance Nintendo only need to get about 10% market share to make a profit.

  • Bitkari #116 6 years ago

    But then most english gamers are chavs who only appreciate pretty gangstas who swear a lot.

    you can blame publishers for pitching to under 18 male CDEs - the real money in the game industry will be found outside of the trackies & cider set.

  • Galvanizer #117 6 years ago

    This console will OWN!!

  • kangarootoo #118 6 years ago

    "you can blame publishers for pitching to under 18 male CDEs - the real money in the game industry will be found outside of the trackies & cider set. "

    Pointless chav comments aside (which to me is just xenophobia made acceptable by fashion), I agree with your comments about where the real money is.

    The Sims is a classic example of appealing to a non-core (by this I mean 15-20 yrd old blokes) market. And would you believe it, it made a bloody furtune :)

  • Chtulie #119 6 years ago

    Total sales figures are actually more interesting then those fo the consoles. Especially if you consider that the handhelds are as expensive (gba) or more (PSP, DS) then the consoles, add to the fact that Nintendo always makes a profit on the hardware sale, and the others make a loss (especially with the X-Box and PSP), Nintendo's weakness is really only a subjective one. Much like, day, Halo2 or Half-Life 2 are only considered a succes when compared to similar games, but fall into nothing when compared to the success of games like Neopets.

  • ekko #120 6 years ago

    It's games which sell consoles, not controllers or even system specs. If Nintendo can keep a steady supply of orginal first party games along with third party support, plus a couple of big hits in the Nintendogs mould (i.e. big with new gamers as well as traditional gamers) then it will work.

    Yes it might only take a few months to develop games for the Revolution, but they've got to sell. And Developers might feel it's more cost effective to make a title which can work on the PS3/Xbox and PC rather than develop one for the Revolution almost exclusively.

    The Revolution might not be competing with the PS3 and Xbox360 - but it will be competing against the PS2 with its EyeToy, Buzz and Dance games. The controller is important but its the games which matter the most.

  • mystic_mick #121 6 years ago

    Ninty have been given a false sense of security with that dual screen thingamajig. I bet Micro$oft and Sony have been buying the machine to make Ninty think it's doing well. Making the Rev 2.5 X more powerful than the Cube only makes it on a par with the PS2 and Xbox, I bet this news has both Sony and M$ laughing their tits off. Who wants to look stupid playing last gen graphics with a remote control? I'm surprised that Ninty haven't come up with a little plastic toy telly to combat HDTV.

  • kangarootoo #122 6 years ago

    "The Revolution might not be competing with the PS3 and Xbox360 - but it will be competing against the PS2 with its EyeToy, Buzz and Dance games. The controller is important but its the games which matter the most."

    Very good point ekko. Sony have been working on the casual gamer for a while now with those titles, under ther "Fire it Up" (play when you get home pissed) flag.

    Regards Nintendo games having a quick development time, has anyone reading all this worked on a Cube title in the past? What was your experience of Nintendo dev support? I hear that MS have a very good support structure, plus good tools whereas Sony aren't so hot on that front. I'm not a coder myself, so my info on that front is very much hearsay. Anyone got hands on experience of developing for the Cube (I use the Cube as an example, 'cos all the spec suggestions I have read so far suggest the APIs will be pretty similar for the Rev).
    Edited by 1 at 08/12/05 @ 21:59

  • oerhoert #123 6 years ago

    @mystic_mick: Please spout your bullshit elsewhere. The Cube is easily on par with the PS2 and the Xbox as it is, so "2.5x cube power" basically means "2.5 times current gen power".

  • Malakhai #124 6 years ago

    Thought we were going to ignore people like mysticmick...
    Edited by 1 at 09/12/05 @ 01:30

  • Talha #125 6 years ago

    @AgentCooper: Actually I said that as you implied, Ninty were going for the casual gamer with a cheap and cheerful control - I said THAT faintly smelled of sour grapes (with the X360/PS3 juggernaut), not your comment or for that matter, you. In other words, that was my rather obtuse way of completely agreeing with you. Sorry, my post definitely lacked clarity but I didn't realize then.

  • mystic_mick #126 6 years ago

    @Malakhai, What's all this I thought we were going to ignore people like mystic_mick malarkey?

  • smelly #127 6 years ago

    I personally still havent finished laughing that this guy thinks the ps2 is more powerful than the cube.

  • kangarootoo #128 6 years ago

    @mystic_mick

    Its nothing personal. Its just this thread has been a calm and interesting discussion thus far, as opposed to most of the other platform related threads, which since the XB360 laucnh often quickly decend into people calling each other nobheads.

    140+ posts about a platform related article and barely any trolling is a bit of a record, so people are just trying to keep it that way by not responding to comments like your "I bet this news has both Sony and M$ laughing their tits off."

    You will see that other posts like that have been ignored too so far, so no-one is singling you out :)

  • Carrybagma #129 6 years ago

    Yes it might only take a few months to develop games for the Revolution, but they've got to sell. And Developers might feel it's more cost effective to make a title which can work on the PS3/Xbox and PC rather than develop one for the Revolution almost exclusively.

    Rev-dev costs should't be a lot more than what the existing Cube costs are, assuming Nintendo hasn't tinkered with licencing agreements. Developing for the Rev should therefore be a lot cheaper than developing for 360 and most of all, PS3. If the Rev does well, then publishers stand to have a greater margin per Rev game sold, which is a point that probably excites the likes of EA a whole lot more than that bollocks about it being "neat, fresh" etc. If you've already got a Rev-dev team, it would make sense to retain them. Porting will be trouble to begin with, but they'll solve those problems quickly enough for a crummy port if they smell $$$$s.

    The big thing is that rev-devs will already be way up the learning curve at *launch*. It will take PS3/360 devs years to reach that point, and only then will you start to see games that might be beyond the Rev's capabilities. PS360 Fanboys will enjoy a really good laugh when the final specs are known, but it's what the developers are capable of that really matters. Without wanting to antagonise the Xealots again, the XBOX never lived up to it's promise, and was shot before it had any chance at all.

    It's games which sell consoles, not controllers or even system specs.
    That's rare, sadly. Marketing usually rules... :o(
    (oh, and the PS2 gobbled up the console+cheap DVD player market long before XBOX came along)
    Edited by 1 at 09/12/05 @ 11:40

  • Talha #130 6 years ago

    @Carrybagma : Still, no one can pretend that anything OTHER than a spectacular games lineup is responsible for PS2's success. Come to think of it, it was thought of as butt-ugly on its release, it was underpowered, and the most expensive. It was released at the same time Sony's preception of invincibility was breaking. Also, there were several months without decent games for the PS2 in the beginning, as far as I have read.

  • Carrybagma #131 6 years ago

    I find it difficult to accept that the games lineup sold the PS2.
    I think the PS1 and it's own games lineup did the most to sell the PS2, with the knowledge that they'd all run just as well on the PS2.
    Sony 'cool' helped an awful lot too - many people I know trusted Sony on just about anything electronic, and they were right to.

    What makes me laugh is that after all these years of avoiding the PS2 for various reasons (including simple predjudice), I now want one on the back of the the great games that seem to have started popping up over the past year or so. I think the PS2 is currently producing the best games of any console (except maybe the DS).

  • Talha #132 6 years ago

    @Carrybagma : Hey, you mention YOU are considering buying a PS2. Yes, it is right that initial sales were driven by success of PSOne. I was a late convert myself, having bought it just two years ago. It can be argued that such late conversions form a major portion of PS2 sales, especially when you consider that it touched the 100 million mark in a shorter period compared to PSOne.
    Edited by 1 at 09/12/05 @ 12:42

  • tengu #133 6 years ago

    "What makes me laugh is that after all these years of avoiding the PS2 for various reasons (including simple predjudice), I now want one on the back of the the great games that seem to have started popping up over the past year or so. I think the PS2 is currently producing the best games of any console (except maybe the DS)."

    Well, the PS2 has really been turning out great games at a steady rate for about three years or so now I'd say. The sheer number of really great titles for the console is greater than on any console I've ever owned, which is why I love the thing so much :)

    The very real quality of it's games library may not have been the only factor in it's success, but the fact is, it is a quality line up, and it more than justifies the cost of the console, far more.

  • kangarootoo #134 6 years ago

    @Carrybagma

    "Without wanting to antagonise the Xealots again, the XBOX never lived up to it's promise, and was shot before it had any chance at all."

    There are a few titles that shine as far as graphics go I think. Riddick and Farcry on XBox were both amazing titles graphically, Riddick in particular was wat ahead of anything else around at the time.

    But I agree with your general point, and this has always been the case. The Amiga 500 is the example that always comes to my mind. The games that were available nearer the end of its life were graphically amazing compared to what was "possible" in its early years.

  • mystic_mick #135 6 years ago

    @ kangarootoo, well I think the success of the rubbish DS has went to Ninty's head. You can get away with crap graphics on a handheld machine, but the next generation of consoles are geared to be used in our living rooms on HDTVs. Multi-media hubs is what the Xbox 360 and the PS3 will be (are) in the case of the 360, not just a gaming console.

    Everyone goes on about how Ninty make the best innovating games etc. Well my opinion is different, if we look at the 3 major console developers, I'd say that Nintendo were in the Stone Age, the Caveman of the consoles. Microsoft would be in Victorian times, the Industrial Revolution. And Sony would be way ahead and into the future of consoles.

    What will the Revolution offer gamers?
    Mario:
    Metroid:
    Zelda:

    Games with the same old IPs, where's the innovation? The Revolution controller will have to be something special to make people sit up and take notice. The Ninty fanbois use the fact that the Cube is more powerful than the PS2 when they argue about graphics, then they say "Games are all about game play." When it's a Cube verses Xbox debate.

    Ninty should pour all their resources into handheld gaming and leave the home console market to the people who know what they are doing.

  • CosmonautX #136 6 years ago

    Well, just listing Nintendo’s own series that are likely to - or could - appear on the machine:

    Mario, Metroid, Zelda, F-Zero, Pikmin, Nintendogs, Wario, Advance Wars, Donkey Kong, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Pokemon, Super Smash Bros, Wave Race, 1080…

    Throw in any new series Nintendo develop for the Rev, the possible resurrection of older franchises like Excitebike, Pilot Wings or Kid Icarus, and the range of Nintendo sports titles and you’ve got a pretty damn good selection of first-party games. Third-party support is certain, only the level is unclear. As the GameCube improved over the N64, I’d hope that the Rev will see better third-party support than the ‘Cube. I’d be very surprised if third-party support drops, especially if dev times and costs are as low as Nintendo is claiming.

    Games with the same old IPs, where's the innovation?

    In the games themselves? In the new ways the controller will let you interact with them? Mario has been around since the mid-80s, but each of his major appearances on a Nintendo console has brought something new, whether it was the evolution from Super Mario Bros. 3 to Super Mario World or the leap into 3D with Super Mario 64. Those changes were driven by Nintendo’s innovation in software, and in their innovation in hardware. They may be comparatively old IP but the ways in which Nintendo have used them have always kept pace with the times, and often led the way.

    The Ninty fanbois use the fact that the Cube is more powerful than the PS2 when they argue about graphics, then they say "Games are all about game play." When it's a Cube verses Xbox debate.

    No, the "fanbois" tell you that the GC is more powerful than the PS2 when people like you post guff about it being the "weakest" of the three current-gen machines.

    Ninty should pour all their resources into handheld gaming and leave the home console market to the people who know what they are doing

    Why? They’re still a successful gaming company in both the home and handheld arenas, and as their attitude and games seem to be what a lot of gamers are looking for there’s no need for them to pack in either any time soon. TBH, it seems that the only people who want "Ninty" to pack it in are the ones who can’t stand the idea of anyone trying something different from the media-centre-multi-million-dollar-convergence-games-as-movie s approach that Microsoft and Sony often seem to espouse.

  • stoopidgreg #137 6 years ago

    how can they sell it for under £100? a 512mb flash card alone is around £40, maybe £35... just doesn't add up.

  • GuiltySpark #138 6 years ago

    the sum of the 360s parts adds up to more than £280..

    but yeah it does seem a bit too cheap...


  • CosmonautX #139 6 years ago

    I sincerely doubt it's going to be launched at a sub-£100 pricepoint. I suspect it may be not far off the £100 mark - the GameCube, after all, launched in the UK for £130 - but I still see £100 as a line they won't cross.

    A sub-£100 launch price may be financially possible, but I suspect the consideration of how so low a price will appear (a price so much lower than the other two consoles may reinforce an impression of it as a "lesser" machine), along with Nintendo's own drive for decent profits (or at least small losses) will push the cost up to something approximating the 'Cube's launch price.

    As always, though, the launch price is going to be less of a factor in the success of the console than what games are available at launch and in the months following. If Nintendo can get a good launch lineup together - something they did pretty well with the GameCube - and keep the games coming for the six months after launch - something that didn't really happen with the 'Cube - I think it'll do them far more good than a crazily low price.

  • Toonster #140 6 years ago

    For a console which may have a size similar to the original Game Boy, 2.5x better graphics than the GC isn't bad. Not bad at all. The only downside I see here is that my TV is HD, but the screen is big, so I look forward to having a lot of space for waving my controller about. Huzzah!
    Edited by 1 at 11/12/05 @ 07:15

  • kangarootoo #141 6 years ago

    @stoopidgreg

    " how can they sell it for under £100? a 512mb flash card alone is around £40, maybe £35... just doesn't add up."

    The retails price of components isn't a realiable guide.

    1. They self subsidise, i.e. they sell at a loss, just to get the console into your home. They then make back the money on game sale licensing.

    2. They buy in huge volumes. This commands huge discounts.

    3. They deal direct with factories, missing out importers, distributors and reseller.

    To use a comparison, Ford don'tbuy the same price to put tyres on their cars as you pay when you replace one. The cost of a flash ard in the shops bears little similarity to the cost of the same amount of flash memoy used by Nintendo.

  • lotteryman82 #142 6 years ago

    Ok ok so you all love ninty but it wont be your only console doesn't than mean anything to you....?

    my idea

    Power is neccessary
    Innovation is neccessary
    Gfx are necessary

    innovation can stand alone but if you make the whole equation thats the full potencial of the console why is it neccessary to dish one in favor of the other ? thats insane. You are dishing gfx as if you would actually mind if you had Zelda with better gfx...gimme a break thats crap
    power and specs can't never undermine innovation except if the developer wishes to deceive you with flashy things so that you won't notice some other parts of the game that suck. and that has nothing to do whether its MS SONY or NINTENDO.
    Nintendo tries to send a message that innovation doesn't need power which is true but innovation will be easier along it.
    Nintendo just poses that "argument" so that fans won't feel short.
    i believe there is no need to feel wrong about it all that buy Nins console will have more that a good treat as most consoles were ( doubts in for 64) and its totally unneccessary to dish the rest competitors over this

  • mrbandersnatch #143 6 years ago

    This still going on? Look, Ive TOLD you! The Commodore 64 is more powerful than the ZX Spectrum, so all speccy games are crap in comparison......

    Now, that Ive got that out of the way Im off to play some Kung Fu Master (1984) and maybe some Karate Champ (1984, so glad the 2 joysticks work) with my X-Arcade (http://www.xg aming.com/two-player.shtml) controller.....wonder if they'll make an adaptor for the Rev?

  • justMe #144 6 years ago

    lotteryman82, you are forgetting something rather important:

    Affordability is necessary.

    And it is a fulcral variable in your equation, because power/graphics influence price a lot. Nintendo's intention is to find a ballance between power and price, both of the console and games, development costs are rising to extreme values.

    So we have for the revolution:

    Power/Graphics: probably very close to the other two on a "normal" television, more than enough to be considered next gen.

    Inovation: A revolutionary controller making new and improved types of games possible, back catalog dowloads of some of the best classic games ever and some unknown "secret" still to be revealed. Free online play.

    Price: Probably close to half the price of the competition, with a strong possibility of cheaper games. Easy to develop for making small/indie games possible, some of them bypassing the traditional distribution channels.

    A winner in every front, imho.

  • Gareth.de #145 6 years ago

    Although this makes the Revolution significantly less powerful than the PS3 or Xbox 360, developers we spoke to were upbeat about the machine.

    I fucking told you this MONTHS ago, and am now proven right.

    Where's that gay fucker smelly now?

  • Gareth..de #146 6 years ago

    Although this makes the Revolution significantly less powerful than the PS3 or Xbox 360, developers we spoke to were upbeat about the machine.

    Haha, I told you all this MONTHS ago and you slagged me off for being anti-Nintendo.

    Looks like I was right, doesn't it?

    Kiss my arse all you fanboys, especially that gay fucker smelly.

  • tengu #147 6 years ago

    Guess who's back? Back again...

  • justMe #148 6 years ago

    Hi Gareth!

    Even if it is half as powerfull as the other two (wich it won't be), it'll be 10x more fun.

    And it'll play the 2006's game of the year:

    Metroid Prime 3.

  • Gareth..de #149 6 years ago

    LOL

    I think you'll find that the XB360 and PS3 are more than 5 times more powerful than the Gamecube... but it is nice to see that the 'love is blind' saying never was more true than when applied to a fanboy.

    This is all *exactly* what I was telling you fools months ago - Nintendo simply cannot make a console as powerful as the others, sell it for half the price AND make a proffit when the others are losing money. It just didn't make any logical sense, and only a fucking idiot would have entertained the idea for anything longer than a millisecond.

    *Enter smelly and furbs.*

    So, are you guys going to accuse EuroLamer of being MS/Sony fanboys now too? Isn't that what you call anyone who dares speak some fucking sense around here?

    Losers.

  • Furbs #150 6 years ago

    Wow, someone has been eating alot of sugar over the holidays ;)

    Hi Gareth. I've let the EG admin types know you're back btw, I'm sure they'll be pleased to see ya. Happy new year!

  • justMe #151 6 years ago

    Please show me a 360 game that is 5 times more visually stunning than Resident Evil 4 on a Gamecube, or Metroid Prime 1/2.

    On a normal TV, I wouldn't say that the XB360 (the only available next gen) is more than twice as powerful as a XBox. Even on a high def set it fails to convince me that it's anything more powerful than an average/good gaming PC.

    You can believe what you want, but those Sony/Microsoft numbers mean nothing.

  • Gareth..de #152 6 years ago

    I've let the EG admin types know you're back btw

    I expected nothing else from someone so spineless. See if I care though - Kikizo.com pisses all over EuroLamer from a massive height, but I just wanted to come here and rub your noses in it for a while.

    You may now resume your deluded Nintendo arse-licking.

  • Furbs #153 6 years ago

    But ummm....I dont actually like Nintendo games on the whole?

    I'm in awe of your spine by the way. Must take real guts to keep coming back somewhere where you can be anonymous and insult people.

    Wish I had your balls. :)

  • tengu #154 6 years ago

    Bet he wishes he had his balls too :)

  • Gareth..de #155 6 years ago

    If the CPU is 2.5 times more powerful, that'll mean it'll roughly run at about speed of 3 or 4 ghz pc.

    What the fuck are you talking about? 450mhz x 2.5 is NOTHING NEAR 3 or 4Ghz. I make it about 1.2Ghz.

    If the GPU is 2.5 times more powerful, then you're looking at about roughly 2.5 times more powerful than a radeon 9600, So I'd say appx the speed of the fastest graphics card on market at the moment (maybe more).

    Again, what the fuck are you talking about? The fastest cards on the market at the moment destroy a bloody Radeon 9600, not just double the power at all.

    I've seen some fanboy crap on this site before (mostly from you, smelly) but this post is taking the piss even for a fanboy.

    Sure, the 360 and ps3 have multi-processors, which in theory if run totally optimally could outperform it.

    In theory? No, I think you'll find it's a widely accepted fact. Even EuroLamer came to the conclusion that the Revolution will be very underpowered compared to the other 2.

    In reality that wont happen

    LOL. You're seriously clutching at straws here aren't you? It won't happen? It already HAS.

    and as most gamers care more about graphics than cpu power

    They go largely hand-in-hand, especially in this case when even the Revolution's GPU is vastly outpaced.

    you see where im coming from.

    I have no idea. At all.

    With the graphics power, again, not quite as good as the other 2

    It's nailed to the wall in this department, I'm afraid.

    Think about running yer favourite pc game with the resolution turned down so you can then turn the detail up to max.

    Personally I'd rather turn up all the details AND have it on maximum resolution - which is what you will be able to do with an X360/PS3. Why turn down the resolution if you have the power to max it out? You only need to do that on a Revolution.

    I reacon for the most part (unless comparing against hidef tv) you wont be able to tell differences between most of the games in terms of power.

    In the same way that I waited a few months before I came back here to laugh in your gay face about the Revolution being under-powered, JUST LIKE I TOLD YOU MONTHS AGO, I'll be here again in a few more to laugh at you when Revolution screens are released that look last-gen compared to the other 2 consoles. Looking forward to it.

    But lets wait and see.

    This is what you should have done all those months ago, but instead you insisted that the Revolution would have the same power as the other 2 and look who was right. You made yourself look like a fool then, and you've just done it again here.

    See you again in a few months to prove you wrong AGAIN when the screens are released.

    I have found it highly amusing that for months you have tried to convince yourself that Nintendo can make a console as powerful as the others for half the price. You ignored people who had any sense and told you that this wasn't possible and called them MS/Sony fanboys. Now the facts are starting to come out and your dream is coming to a very painful end isn't it? So what do you do? Sit back and accept that it's going to be under-powered? No, you come here and spout a load of bollocks to try and convince yourself that Nintendo can somehow squeeze nearly as much power out of a 1.2Ghz CPU as Microsoft and Sony can get out of 3.2Ghz.

    Sad. Very, very sad. I laugh in your face, smelly.
    Edited by 3 at 02/01/06 @ 00:41

  • Furbs #156 6 years ago

    Xavier, is that you?

  • Cali #157 6 years ago

    I own all systems and until today
    Nintendo games had the best gameplay
    and re-play value.

    ResidentEvil4 has shown the power of the little cube.

    Nintendo made a good decision by not competing in the
    war of high numbers and useless descriptions
    and focussing on a real gaming revolution with a new controlling concept
    (i bet all next-next-gen systems will have a revolution like wand controller)

    So this system will be the only alternative system and still attractive for every Sony or Microsoft player.


    In fact only good games make a good system :)

  • tef89 #158 6 years ago

    I wonder if Nintendo will openly ignore the Euro market again, as they did with the Cube :( ....

  • gizmo #159 6 years ago

    Hang on, did I read that correctly... DOESN'T SUPPORT HD?????!!!!!!!!

    HD is a one way street, although I admit a tad expensive to get there in the first place..

    'living in the eighties.....'

  • reality_cheque #160 6 years ago

    I'll be buying it just to play old SNES/64 games