Revolution to be '2.5 times more powerful than Cube' News
Wii News by Games Industry.biz
Developers speaking to GamesIndustry.biz this week have commented that the the Revolution console, hardware kits for which began shipping to third parties recently, is shaping up to be around 2.5 times more powerful than GameCube.
Up until the past week or so, developers close enough to Nintendo's inner circle to have seen any Revolution hardware were working with development kits that were simply GameCube kits with mock-ups of the "wand" controller attached - a clear signal, if any were required, that the system is more about innovative control than about the hardware specs.
Now, however, Nintendo has spoken to developers in more depth about its hardware plans for the new system - and has begun shipping more advanced development kits to selected third-parties, featuring early versions of some of the chips which will appear in the final console.
An article published by US website IGN this morning revealed some details of the console, and several developers today have spoken to GamesIndustry.biz to help fill in the gaps.
The picture we're building up of the final console is as follows: the system will be powered by the IBM CPU codenamed Broadway, which is very similar to the Gekko CPU used in the GameCube, but runs at around twice the clock speed and offers potentially two to three times the overall performance, and the ATI graphics chip codenamed Hollywood.
While Broadway is well-understood by developers, the ATI part remains "a bit of a black box", according to one senior developer we spoke to. "We have theoretical throughput figures and stats from Nintendo, but nobody's seen the hardware yet - we're just treating it like it's a faster version of the GameCube GPU, at the moment."
How much faster exactly it will be remains to be seen, but the chip - which "seems to be an evolution of the Radeon range" according to our source - will probably mirror the CPU by running at around twice to three times the speed of the existing part.
In terms of RAM, the system is well-known to boast 512MB of Flash RAM which can be used to store save games and downloaded content, but this will not be accessible to developers, we were told. What they'll have available is 96MB of main memory, built on the same 1T-SRAM architecture as the Cube, and "a few megs here and there for other stuff" - such as 3MB of on-board memory on the graphics chip, which will be used for a frame buffer. "That's plenty, since the Revolution isn't supporting HDTV," one developer added.
As for the storage media the Revolution will use, "they're pretty much standard DVDs," we were told, with capacity similar to current PS2 and Xbox discs. "The only clever thing about the drive, really, is that you can put the little Cube discs into it despite being a slot-loading drive - I think that's the first time you've been able to do that with a slot loader."
In other words, what Nintendo is planning to ship is a system which is no more than around twice to three times as powerful as the current generation GameCube - indeed, more than one developer who has access to the hardware specs suggested "about 2.5 times the power" as the benchmark for the new system.
Although this makes the Revolution significantly less powerful than the PS3 or Xbox 360, developers we spoke to were upbeat about the machine.
"You can basically treat it like a current generation machine," one told us. "The time it'll take to ramp up to developing on this is basically nil - we can just work on a PC or maybe an Xbox, and then improve the quality of our assets when we move to the Revolution. Or even work on a Cube, in fact. The libraries are very similar."
"We could do a game for this in a few months," commented another developer. "Developing games is going to be easy, the challenge is going to be using the controller properly."
The approach mirrors Nintendo's strategy with the DS, which is far less powerful than its rival the PlayStation Portable but offers an innovative interface which has been a hit with gamers and has had major success in the mass market.
Crucially, the low specification will also allow Nintendo to score a victory in terms of pricing; speculation is already rife that the Revolution could enter the marketplace at $149 or even lower, suggesting a sub-GBP 100 price point at a time when the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 still retail for three times that price.
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Not sure it's going to work Nintendo, but I have my fingers crossed for you. I would be the first to revel in your 'return to form' and a second coming of the Nintendo golden age............unfortunately, my scepticism leads me to suspect the release of the Revolution may not be it!
Although, for sub £100 and being able to play the old Nintendo back catalogue, you may still achieve a good following and fan base. I know I'd buy it purely for the snes Zelda! |
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quantumsheep
07/12/05 @ 17:40
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My cousin, who's in her 40s and never plays games got addicted to Zoo Keeper just last night.
It was the control method. She can't work out 'traditional' controllers that we've all grown up with. But give her a stylus and off she goes! I have high hopes for the Rev controller. It could take away the boundary that stops non-gamers playing games. |
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GuiltySpark
07/12/05 @ 17:46
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but just because it has a "wand" controller doesnt mean it will bring in more gamers.
the only people who will buy this imo are people who really like nintendo and therefore are already gamers. anyway i still have to see some f&*king games!......... |
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the only people who will buy this imo are people who really like nintendo and therefore are already gamers.
Exactly what everyone said about the DS. You know what? Everyone I know who doesn't already own a DS, wants one. I'm not talking males 18-30 here, I'm talking males and females, friends and family, 8 to 68. You show them how it works and they get it, and they want one. If the Revolution is the same, it'll be an incredible hit. It's not about winning the next-gen war. It's about winning the hearts and minds of people who didn't even know they liked videogames before. |
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Actually it is unfair to expect Ninty to win here - they are simply not going for it. This may sound far fetched but I feel they are letting their handheld side take precedence. Think of it, Revo is so compact, it can easily be hauled around. The cheap price point is sweet, but it won't deter buyers of X360 or PS3 - it just just a couple of hundred more quid investment for them for some machine with vastly superior hardware and expected to last 4-5 years.
In other words, Ninty are changing the rules. They are in fact carving their own playground - something falling between a handheld and a home console in terms of price and capability. Interesting. |
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My lot is usually thrown in with the playstation just because thats where my preferred games sit. Never been a nintendo fan (and I've tried).
But all it will take is one decent wand controlled sword game and I'll be converted. Especially if they can crack the £100 entry price point! *thinks psychic thoughts to Nintendo - lightsabers! lightsabers! lightsabers!....* |
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i dont know why people are sceptical? the ds has proved here that ninty could well be back on track.. from the ds we still only on the early games, there will some great ideas still to come on how the machine can be used.
if you own a ds you'll be foaming at the mouth wanting a rev, ninty just seem to be on the ball now. sony and m$ have the cash to get the high spec'd hardware out there and thats where ninty can't really size upto them. but who's honestly seen a leap in gfx this genjump? it's not as impressive as say... nes to snes... or snes to ninty64? the genjump in gfx is getting smaller and smaller we're reaching a peak like the pc market where gamers realise there's no point in spending £200 more on the next gen gfx card... 6800 or 7800 what we talking 10fps at the end of the day? build em cheap ensure the gfx gap isn't soo far gone its embarrising and give us this controller we're all dying to wave around the place! honestly i'd love a game where u have to wave planes in and get em sorted quick to land |
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Right, Let look at this logically.
If the CPU is 2.5 times more powerful, that'll mean it'll roughly run at about speed of 3 or 4 ghz pc. That's STILL quite powerful (more powerful than most pcs) If the GPU is 2.5 times more powerful, then you're looking at about roughly 2.5 times more powerful than a radeon 9600, So I'd say appx the speed of the fastest graphics card on market at the moment (maybe more). Sure, the 360 and ps3 have multi-processors, which in theory if run totally optimally could outperform it. In reality that wont happen, and as most gamers care more about graphics than cpu power - you see where im coming from. With the graphics power, again, not quite as good as the other 2, but it's not running at hi-def, so it'll be able to push more around wont it? Think about running yer favourite pc game with the resolution turned down so you can then turn the detail up to max. I reacon for the most part (unless comparing against hidef tv) you wont be able to tell differences between most of the games in terms of power. But lets wait and see. |
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2.5 times more powerfull?? that may not be as much as the competition, but it sounds damn fine to me.
I recently bought pikmin 2 and upon firing it up was still mighty impressed by the visuals - in the rev can boost that by 2 times PLUS giving me the (manly) option of waving my pikmin around with the wand then consider me sold.
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most recently on 07/12/05 @ 18:46
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SirScratchalot
07/12/05 @ 18:58
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2.5x the cube is massive....
Take RE4 to 2.5x and it looks at least as nice as the MGS4 trailer. Hell, even gears of war is running on one processor core and big N seem to have prioritized cache which is a real choke point for processors. I think this thing might surprise you. |
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mr_steve100
07/12/05 @ 18:59
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I don't want logic! I want Revolution!! Want Want Want!!!
Gaaah!!!! (notice the increasing number of exclamation marks). Anyway, as much as I want Nintendo to be competitive with the next-gen (or should have be current-gen?) Xbox360 and PS3, I don't think that they will and I suspect that's what Ninty are feeling too (and quite possibly some of you lot who have commented - I've not read them all). But like everyone else has said, Ninty are great at producing innovative gaming and generally giving us gamers a load of fun to be had with their first-party games. Nontheless, it's good to hear that they have started dishing out the dev-kits to developers to play with and have a think about the possibilities. Boy, why can't I write anything controversial for you lot to shout at me about - I'm sooo boring. |
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Personally, I think it's wise going from Ninty. I especially liked the comment from the dev who said games could be developed in a few months. Admittedly, this could lead to games being churned out, but it could also mean companies have more time to think about what they're doing.
I have to admit, I think my PS3 will look pretty nice beside this. Should be a good year 2006! |
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pantherboy
07/12/05 @ 19:08
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The cpu power will not hurt developers but the stingy ram definatly will - At the min I would have expected 256 but ideally 512.
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"You do realise the Gamecube has a 450mhz processor? Meaning 2.5 times that equals a measly 1.1Ghz processor?"
Now imagine a 1.1Ghz PC processor with a top of the line graphics card, both interfaced with optimized hardware and auxiliary chips. Imagine this setup running dedicated games software, optimized to take advantage of 100% of the available processing power. It will leave a current gaming PC in the dust... Good enough for me, I would buy a "wand powered" gamecube in a heartbeat. |
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richardiox
07/12/05 @ 19:20
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Hadn't even thought about the potential for a Rev version of Pikmin, very nice. In the Revolution trailer, where they're assumed to be using the controller to direct a flashlight, everyone immediately thought of Resident Evil but my moneys on a Luigis Mansion 2 at release. Seeing as Ninty only did one game in the Super Mario series for the Cube they've had plenty of time to pour time and ideas into the next one which again, I assume (and hope), will be a Rev launch title.
I seem to remember the Cube launch was slightly marred by the lack of a Mario game so surely they'll be wanting to have the next one out alongside the Rev launch - hopefully full of benchmark setting gameplay and control innovations to really showcase it's ability to do something really new.
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most recently on 07/12/05 @ 19:23
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You do realise the Gamecube has a 450mhz processor?
It's a 450mhz CUSTOM processor. Just comparing mhz is meaningless. What's better - a 2ghz P2 or a 500mhz P4? See? The only REAL way of calculating cpu power is in flops, but even that is flawed quite significantly (especially when calculating for multi-processor machines, as there will be NO WAY every single processor will EVER be used 100% all the time). To put this into some kind of perspective (using numbers grabbed off the web), the xbox runs at 733mhz and 2.9gflops. The PS2 runs at 300mhz and 6.2gflops. I.E. In terms of processing power the ps2 is MORE POWERFUL despite having a lower clock rate. But yet gamers only care about the fact the graphics look better on the xbox. See? Oh, and this generation the cube has the LEAST powerful cpu out of all 3 machines (by quite a margin), but graphically it wees all over the ps2 from a great height, and is almost on par with the xbox.
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most recently on 07/12/05 @ 19:28
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Hmmm, im a bit concerned though. The rev will be 2 times as strong as the gc. The xbx was about 2 times as strong as the gc and the xb2 is about 5 times as strong as the xbx. Ahhh well, ninty will blow them aweh. If they manage to get a fair ammount of adult games on it (a shooter & horror survival game at launch plz ;p)....
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Hmmm, im a bit concerned though. The rev will be 2 times as strong as the gc.
Gah! It DOESNT say that!!. Its says the Rev PROCESSOR is 2.5 times faster than the cube. As I said above, the PS2's PROCESSOR is almost 3 times faster than the xbox's!!! And if you look at the capabilities of the 360's graphics (for example) you'll see graphically the 360 isn't THAT much more powerful than the xbox anyhow (I reacon maybe 3 times more powerful) |
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The12thMonkey
07/12/05 @ 19:36
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Go Ninty! Wooo!
Seriously though, I can't wait for the Rev. Everything I have seen thus far leaves me impressed. The numbers really don't matter. In fact, I found myself struggling (without online assistence) to tell my mate the specs of my 360 (Not to say that I don't like my 360 - it's aces, in fact). I also know that one of the first things I will do opn my new Rev when I grab that, will be to download Golden Eye and have a 4 player blast with an old favourite. |
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This is gonna kick ass.
At that price, everyone will be picking (a PS3 *or* a 360), *AND* a Rev. Theoretically, the Rev could end up being the largest console base... Sony fanboys hate the 360. MS fanboys hate the PS3. No-one *hates* the Revolution because they arn't making the fanboys make a choice, the fanboys can be 'comfortable' owning a Rev and the other console of their affections. Also, the Rev fanboys will be able to buy a Rev, and 'try out' one of the other consoles... |
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velocity_girl
07/12/05 @ 19:54
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Another plus point is that as X360 and PS3 are potentially very similar the Revo could be alot of peoples 2nd console.. im looking forward to it..
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SmoothMartin
07/12/05 @ 19:55
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If the Cube gave us the almost perfect Resident Evil 4, just think what could be possible with the Revolution given the right developer, especially as they say it's easy to code for.
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Seriously this is some of the most pointless speculation ever. 3 times 2.5 times more powerful? How do you quantify that? You can't - there is no way. 3 times more bunny rabbits, 2.5 more times chocolate sauce? This is pure fluff. Until we actually see something you can't make any judgement.
The only thing we have seen so far is the controller - and that is awesome. The most interesting development since erm, well the DS. |
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immateriaux
07/12/05 @ 20:05
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Going back to when all the announcements were made re gen 3 XBox and PS3 etc I never thought I'd buy the Nintendo option but now it by far interests me most. I really like what Nintendo are trying to do, focus on gameplay issues and innovation etc while leaving Microsoft and Sony to brag on about the size of their respective balls. I'll definitely buy the Revolution when it comes out now, especially with that price attached.
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The cpu power will not hurt developers but the stingy ram definatly will - At the min I would have expected 256 but ideally 512.
Keep in mind, when you play Metroid Prime, or Resi 4, or other fantastic looking games, that those games are running on a console with a 450 MHz processor and 24Mb of Ram. The Free Radical people had a nice comment on the gamecube hardware design: "it's a great machine - particularly from our point of view. It's very balanced - the CPU and graphics performance are kind of hand in glove, and we're not limited on either of them." ( http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=55591 ) |
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yep 2.5x the power of a cube sounds high to me, esp as no hi-res option.
seems to me that optimisation on a system is capable of delivering great improvements - compare xbox farcry or forza to xbox launch titles. Trying to say - if rev is sufficiently similar to GC we might see games taking more advantage of the system earlier. however: may not be that the console is either as cheap or as powerful as expected - reasoning being that Nintendo make a point of selling hardware at a profit (unlike Sony or MS). So, can they really source half a gig of flash mem, a 3-4ghz processor, great graphics card, make the kit and sell it at £100 for profit? dunno. Depends how desperate they are. I would buy one at that price in a moment. |
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Always gone with the PS1/2 but would definitely buy this if it is same price as a DS!!! Would get a PS3 too though, as Sony are innovators too - I bought my PS2 as a DVD player, if blu-ray takes off will be the same for PS3.
Also, I think too much is being made of the controller, it will come with an attachment to act as a normal controller, I believe, and I hope we won't see a spate of early games using the remote gimick for the sake of it... Bottom line for Ninty to make a big comeback they need a killer app... |
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Misc comments...
1) 2.5 times the power of the Cube (whatever that means) is plenty of power. Since there's no HD, a lot of the power is saved for making the games look otherwise probably reasonably close to PS3 & 360 level. At least close *enough*, in any case. And Nintendo is always conservative with their estimates. 2) Since it looks like Revolution games can be developed with reasonable budgets and small teams, it certainly seems likely we could see more small studio titles. Also, it is more likely we'll see some experimental titles since the risk for publishers is smaller than for other consoles. Xbox 360 Live might be a contender in this area too, but I'm not sure if people are ready to download games any larger than a few megabytes. Or how many actually download games at all? But we'll see... 3) It seems that the 2006 release date looks very much possible :-) |
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isnt anyone worried about lack of HD support ? Its not really an issue now, but two years down the line the Revolution may start looking really tatty on high-def huge displays, especially as developers begin really flexing the PS3 and X360 later on.
Just a thought. Im not hating , I LOVE the controller so much |
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