Molyneux: Fable II was "rushed"
"Had huge design flaws."
Microsoft exclusive RPG Fable II was "terribly messy", "rushed" and suffered from "huge design flaws", creator Peter Molyneux has admitted.
Speaking at the Develop Conference in Brighton this afternoon, the Lionhead Studios boss went through a long list of Fable II features that he hated, before telling the audience how Fable 3 will improve upon them.
"Fable II, let's be honest about it, it has some terribly messy things about it," he said.
"Half of that, again being honest, was because we rushed at the end and we had this terrible phase where, the world looks this beautiful with this many game features, and then slowly transitioned into being less beautiful.
"On Fable II we had, at one point, 67,000 bugs. The Microsoft Test team rated us super black. No-one had been black before. They'd been red and orange and green. But we were super black. They said it's utterly impossible for anybody to come out as super black.
"That's why we had to reduce down what we had. But, to be honest with you, there were also huge design flaws in Fable II."
Molyneux said Lionhead failed to concentrate on Fable II's unique selling points. Players used only 60 per cent of the content of the game, research revealed. "It's just a crazy thing to do," Molyneux said.
Molyneux hated Fable II's map: "It was boring and tedious and no-one even knew it was a map." And he hated Fable II's female characters: "In Fable II, all our women looked like Russian shot putters."
In Fable 3, the 2D GUI has been replaced with a 3D space called The Sanctuary. And the game's women "have curves and soft bits".
One criticism of Fable II Lionhead appears to have failed to address is long loading times. "I hate loading. I really hate it. I know the journalists – wonderful people that they are – are going to slag us off about loading. We tried to minimise it.
"But we've got a big problem. Because a lot of our world is persistent, we can't afford the memory. We tried and experimented with trying to stream load it, but we didn't actually get it working."
Peter Molyneux might have hated Fable II, but we loved it. We gave the 2008 hit 10/10 in our review.
We're interviewing the man himself later. Head over to our Fable 3 hands-on to see how Lionhead's follow-up is shaping up. Fable III will be released on 26th October, simultaneously for Xbox 360 and PC.
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Comments (90) Latest comment 2 years ago
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Why can't he just stop being Microsofts bitch and do the work getting it right?
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First was Bungie about halo 2 (if memory serves me correctly) Now it is becoming a staple.
Learning from your own choices is good though and I do appreciate the honesty.
It's just, why do they always find out long after they released that first game, and always around the time the followup is ready?
This new honesty is beginning to sound like clever marketing.
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Maybe he's bitter because Steve Jobs stole the same quote for the iPad launch...
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These guys (Lionhead) seem to be the only ones who actually trash their previous games, when bigging up the sequel.
Other teams are pretty frank sometimes about their shortcomings, but Lionhead actually come out and say "yeah, the last game was rubbish, but this one'll be great, we promise". They do this every time.
I hope Fable III gets a 3/10
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It confirms how utterly wrong that 10/10 was, given the crippling flaws overlooked in the review.
It confirms what a waste of space PM is, singing its praises from the rooftops before and now finally admitting that actually it was a rushed, disappointing bodge of a game.
It also makes one question all the bilge being talked about Fable 3, given this is now the second time someone senior in Lionhead has admitted what a load of twaddle Fable 2 was in retrospect.
Seriously, folks, Lionhead like many other devs is currently coasting along on the reputation they built back in the 90s.
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Nice to get a game with a very English feel,I'm looking forward to number three. And it's nice for him to admit the faults - noone is going to release a game and say 'This is a bit shit' so I've no problem with him being more critical now and changing his tune a bit. At least he's confessing the faults and working on it; it's a hell of a lot better than someone too far up their own arse to admit a problem.
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i remember getting regularly shot down when i dared to suggest that fable 2 wasn't as good as people wanted to tell themselves it was. wonder if that will change now that the big man has said pretty much the same thing
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He loves Fable III now, in two/three years time will he be saying the same thing? Er... yes.
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The map in Fable 2 was a right mess; not that it was boring, it was utterly useless, without being able to zoom in or anything. But the real problem with the game was its core game design. It was basically Zelda without the joy of finding new weapons to overcome puzzles. Or basically Zelda without the joy period. What a boring game, as much as I liked all the interesting but pointless fluff they introduced.
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He does this with every game, and I suspect he'll say the same about Fable III one day. The man's a perfectionist - he'll probably never be pleased with any game he makes.
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I love the evocative language that nerdrage fosters.
Artists tend to hate their own work. Artists tend to see how things could be different and constantly seek to improve upon their previous efforts. It's also called hindsight, enough time has passed between the release and as such the natural critical processes of any creator would be flowing. It's part of the creative process.
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I played it, it was fun, but it was a textbook 8 out of ten.
Mild rant incoming.
Then i see that DA:0 got 8/10..... Hardly fair.
Wasn't going to get fable 3, but i have to be honest, i am interested in teh ruling part of the game, so i'll be getting it. Goddamn marketing!
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I loved Fable II and played it constantly 'til the end. 10/10 for me.
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A shitload of promises in the run up to release of Fable 2 and a clutch of glowing reviews had me excited for the game - and then I played it.
I have never known such a disconnect between the opinion from respected publications and my own opinion. I'm not surprised he considers it flawed, only that a good number of reviewers didn't.
In regards to Fable 3 I'll wait for the views from the regulars in the forum.
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Not one...
He used to be a legend...
Now he's M$'s monkey / jester / spin doctor...(in that order)
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The one that says "We live it Hardstyle" is wearing out now.
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We all know that in 2 years time he will say he hated 3 but 4 will be GREAT..!
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All you fashionable haters can suck it. Like no one enjoy's anything anymore, it's all crap, broken, etc. I had great fun farting up the local townhall and sacrificing some peasants. I'd rather have Peter chatting up his dreams than Kotick ramming CoD down my throath.
Couldn't make a sexy women in it though, he's right.
". I seem to recall I gave up on the game when it became clear the grinding was needed to progress the game. "
Bullshit, you didn't need to grind one bit to get any further.
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[link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/molyneux-wou ld-give-fable-2-9-10
]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/molyne...[/link]
...and I remember another interview where he said the only things he wasn't happy about in the game where som lip-syncing issues. And what did we actually get? A buggy mess of an "RPG" with dire Sims like aspects to jobs and family tacked on.
There is not a chance in hell I'm getting fooled again by his hyperbole.
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I've been a major RPG fan since Baldur's Gate (the PC game of course), but Fable 1+2 were definitely moderately competent games at best in my opinion - and unfortunately not interesting enough for me to bother actually playing either for more than around ten hours or so, with an increasing urge to stop, building along the way.
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Imagine someone telling you 2 years after you buy a product that it's shit! What a dunce.
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He has done the same so many times now I've lost count. He'll do the same after X time of Fable 3 being out. And people will still buy it, or react in shock. Jeez, this roundabout gets tedious.
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Curious, that this is only done after numerous gushing reviews praising morality systems that were already outdated decades ago.
It's the equivalent of a bunch of virgins wanking to internet porn then when the porn clip ends, the woman was a transexual.
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It does certainly have some flaws, but how much they annoy is just down to how forgiving you are. Most of my favourite games have various "clunky" elements, or design decisions that you sort of have to work your way around: if the game or the world is good enough, you ignore them or just deal with them.
Personally, I've had so much fun with FII it's a definite 10. But I can clearly see how the flaws could knock it down a point or two.
Also, it's definitely a gorgeous game. The lighting and the pastoral scenes are beautiful.
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Why can't he just shut up?
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I went to look up some stuff to back up what I said. I found a good list of some links, but I'll link to where I found them rather than ripping someones info myself.
[link url=ht tp://www.giantbomb.com/fable-iii/61-27878/is-peter-molyneux- to-be-believed-about-fable-iii/35-426914/?page=2
]http://ww w.giantbomb.com/fable-iii/61-27...[/link]
Last post.
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super black in testing and super black at release.
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Hmmmm..........
'The Lionhead Studios boss went through a long list of Fable II features that he hated, before telling the audience how Fable 3 will improve upon them.'
Ahhhhhh.....
Old game shit, new game brilliant.
Please shut your goddamn mouth Peter.
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Hardly call the game shit because of them, At least you can buy the world in Fable 2 with it.
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I loved Fable II at first, then began to hate it as it introduced boring and poorly-implemented systems, then loved it again when I realized I could just play through the game without them. The only exception, I guess, was having to literally wait around as a powerless prisoner - everyone had to tough that one out.
Oh, and the control system for spell casting was irredeemable crap.
I guess you just have to be in the right mind set for Fable II. Have some time to kill, a hot cup of coffee, whatever. It's comfort-food gaming. Somewhat shallow as some have charged, but that doesn't mean it has nothing on offer. 8/10 for me, and I'm a pretty tough sell.
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It's an average RPG that doesn't even look as good as Oblivion.
(looks at review)
I think this precise review score is the start of all the arguments and controversy over review scores on this site.
If you look at recentish EG scores on metacritic you see they mostly tend to be a bit lower than most of the other sites. However Fable II seems to be right up there with all the others.
When people saw Fable II get 10/10, they thought all future games would be getting an equally easy ride, but in fact it was just a blip and EG has settled into being fairly harsh / picky compared to other sites scorewise.
When a platform exclusive gets a mark one or two lower than maybe it deserves, the ensuing fanboy comment chaos is maybe understandable if you bear in mind that people are expecting it to be marked on the Fable II scale rather than the normal EG scale.
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This guy seriously needs to shut up and look for professional help.
He just insulted thousands of people that bought his game, and it hurts even more for those that actually loved the fucking game.
Molyneux, you are an idiot.
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It's funny, he said the exact same thing about Black and White all those years ago. Maybe the Lionheadders should look to hire some decent programmers (with oversight)?
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Was it worth 10/10? Who cares, I got my moneys worth.
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as good as mario galaxy 2, i think not
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A-FUCKING-MEN
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Already have, got it preordered.
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8-9/10 for me. As there were issues, so it doesn't deserve a perfect score.
Shame I can't get the next one as my Xbox broke and I got a PS3.. Oh well, Demon's Souls it is then!
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I got bored very quickly, even when the first part was given away as a free download.
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Molyneux can say all he wants about Fable 2 now that Fable 3 is aboit to release... But me and many of my friends were captivated by Fable 2. And we consider it an asset to Lionhead. I'm not even an RPG kinda guy. But i appreciate the Fable world so much!
And i actually thought the graphics (and lighting effects) were pretty good for 2008, especially considering the games out around the same timeframe.
Perhaps not a 10/10 game, but it's definitely worth a go. Even if you're not a massive RPG fan (like me).
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Guy needs to do himself a favour and go back and replay his previous games from the 90s and work out what it was that separated them from 90% of all other games in terms of charm and style and gameplay.
..then buy the rights to make Magic Carpet 3.
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Start supporting 64-bit OS, Peter. 32-bit gaming has reached its limit. 4GB is no longer enough to handle all the stuff you want going on at once. And hell, that isn't even what you've got to work with on consoles.
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Cheers, Mr Molyneux.
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Very interesting compilation. Thanks man!
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It's great for him to say now that he doesn't like his previous game, therefore his new game will be so much better.
I was hugely disappointed by Fable 2. It was so shallow and riddled with stupid repeating voice recordings that I couldn't concentrate on enjoying what was essentially a very cool fantasy world.
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Still worth playing after you get the well-warranted grumbling out of your system.
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