Molyneux: Fable II was "rushed"

"Had huge design flaws."

Microsoft exclusive RPG Fable II was "terribly messy", "rushed" and suffered from "huge design flaws", creator Peter Molyneux has admitted.

Speaking at the Develop Conference in Brighton this afternoon, the Lionhead Studios boss went through a long list of Fable II features that he hated, before telling the audience how Fable 3 will improve upon them.

"Fable II, let's be honest about it, it has some terribly messy things about it," he said.

"Half of that, again being honest, was because we rushed at the end and we had this terrible phase where, the world looks this beautiful with this many game features, and then slowly transitioned into being less beautiful.

"On Fable II we had, at one point, 67,000 bugs. The Microsoft Test team rated us super black. No-one had been black before. They'd been red and orange and green. But we were super black. They said it's utterly impossible for anybody to come out as super black.

"That's why we had to reduce down what we had. But, to be honest with you, there were also huge design flaws in Fable II."

Molyneux said Lionhead failed to concentrate on Fable II's unique selling points. Players used only 60 per cent of the content of the game, research revealed. "It's just a crazy thing to do," Molyneux said.

Molyneux hated Fable II's map: "It was boring and tedious and no-one even knew it was a map." And he hated Fable II's female characters: "In Fable II, all our women looked like Russian shot putters."

In Fable 3, the 2D GUI has been replaced with a 3D space called The Sanctuary. And the game's women "have curves and soft bits".

One criticism of Fable II Lionhead appears to have failed to address is long loading times. "I hate loading. I really hate it. I know the journalists – wonderful people that they are – are going to slag us off about loading. We tried to minimise it.

"But we've got a big problem. Because a lot of our world is persistent, we can't afford the memory. We tried and experimented with trying to stream load it, but we didn't actually get it working."

Peter Molyneux might have hated Fable II, but we loved it. We gave the 2008 hit 10/10 in our review.

We're interviewing the man himself later. Head over to our Fable 3 hands-on to see how Lionhead's follow-up is shaping up. Fable III will be released on 26th October, simultaneously for Xbox 360 and PC.

Comments (90) Latest comment 2 years ago

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  • LHH #1 2 years ago

    Funny how EG gave out good reviews 2 years ago but shits on everything this year (apart from the Doom 2 port)
  • richarddavies #2 2 years ago

    Oh he's hating it now, he was praising the arse off it befiore release. Bell.
  • MeBrains #3 2 years ago

    hey look... it's PM flip-flopping!
  • Gambit1977 #4 2 years ago

    Didn't he say the same about the first then promise the second wouldn't be?
    Why can't he just stop being Microsofts bitch and do the work getting it right?
  • Raznilof #5 2 years ago

    What's this trend of people disliking their previous effort?

    First was Bungie about halo 2 (if memory serves me correctly) Now it is becoming a staple.

    Learning from your own choices is good though and I do appreciate the honesty.

    It's just, why do they always find out long after they released that first game, and always around the time the followup is ready?

    This new honesty is beginning to sound like clever marketing.
  • scoop #6 2 years ago

    Is this the same Fable 2 he said was most important thing he'd ever done, his career defining moment?

    Maybe he's bitter because Steve Jobs stole the same quote for the iPad launch...:p
  • Beano #7 2 years ago

    It's ok, Peter... we forgive you! Just don't do it again... oh wait... !
  • cianchristopher #8 2 years ago

    He really needs to shut the fuck up.

    These guys (Lionhead) seem to be the only ones who actually trash their previous games, when bigging up the sequel.

    Other teams are pretty frank sometimes about their shortcomings, but Lionhead actually come out and say "yeah, the last game was rubbish, but this one'll be great, we promise". They do this every time.

    I hope Fable III gets a 3/10
  • metalangel #9 2 years ago

    Wow, this confirms a few things.

    It confirms how utterly wrong that 10/10 was, given the crippling flaws overlooked in the review.

    It confirms what a waste of space PM is, singing its praises from the rooftops before and now finally admitting that actually it was a rushed, disappointing bodge of a game.

    It also makes one question all the bilge being talked about Fable 3, given this is now the second time someone senior in Lionhead has admitted what a load of twaddle Fable 2 was in retrospect.

    Seriously, folks, Lionhead like many other devs is currently coasting along on the reputation they built back in the 90s.
  • Goffee #10 2 years ago

    Just started playing Fable 2, apart from agreeing the 2d maps are crap, I think its a gorgeous world
  • macmurphy #11 2 years ago

    I loved it, and the dlc. I got it at Christmas and it felt like a big seasonal adventure. Loved the voices, loves the aesthetic, enjoyed the combat, having a pet dog was quality. Don't think it was a 10, but I still thought it was great.

    Nice to get a game with a very English feel,I'm looking forward to number three. And it's nice for him to admit the faults - noone is going to release a game and say 'This is a bit shit' so I've no problem with him being more critical now and changing his tune a bit. At least he's confessing the faults and working on it; it's a hell of a lot better than someone too far up their own arse to admit a problem.
  • superdelphinus #12 2 years ago

    the most ridiculous 10/10 of all time!

    i remember getting regularly shot down when i dared to suggest that fable 2 wasn't as good as people wanted to tell themselves it was. wonder if that will change now that the big man has said pretty much the same thing
  • Sonic_D #13 2 years ago

    And this is why I hate this git. At time of release heaps his games will praise and overstates what thy can do. Fable II was boring and oh so mediocre, delivering on little of what this twat promised and EG obviously fell for it, 10/10 my arse.

    He loves Fable III now, in two/three years time will he be saying the same thing? Er... yes.
  • spekkeh #14 2 years ago

    First Molyneux is going to slag off his previous game. Next interview he's going to tout his new one. Same ole same ole.

    The map in Fable 2 was a right mess; not that it was boring, it was utterly useless, without being able to zoom in or anything. But the real problem with the game was its core game design. It was basically Zelda without the joy of finding new weapons to overcome puzzles. Or basically Zelda without the joy period. What a boring game, as much as I liked all the interesting but pointless fluff they introduced.
  • mingster #15 2 years ago

    It definately was not a 10/10 game. 8 at the most.
  • ronuds #16 2 years ago

    You "hate" a man because he talks up his games?

    He does this with every game, and I suspect he'll say the same about Fable III one day. The man's a perfectionist - he'll probably never be pleased with any game he makes.
  • Raiftel #17 2 years ago

    CRIPPLING FLAWS

    I love the evocative language that nerdrage fosters.

    Artists tend to hate their own work. Artists tend to see how things could be different and constantly seek to improve upon their previous efforts. It's also called hindsight, enough time has passed between the release and as such the natural critical processes of any creator would be flowing. It's part of the creative process.
  • nasanu #18 2 years ago

    I was thinking about picking this up cheap. I wont bother now. Dont want to play something with 'huge design flaws'.
  • Feanor #19 2 years ago

    Don't fall for the hype next time, Eurogamer.
  • dirtysteve #20 2 years ago

    @Raiftel - It did have crippling flaws though, it practically wouldn't play on older XBOX's, which is a farce, I remember when it came out, and the save file issue meant playing through the opening several times.
  • anomagnus #21 2 years ago

    i have to say, i was very surprised by the 10/10 score Fable 2 got.

    I played it, it was fun, but it was a textbook 8 out of ten.

    Mild rant incoming.

    Then i see that DA:0 got 8/10..... Hardly fair.

    Wasn't going to get fable 3, but i have to be honest, i am interested in teh ruling part of the game, so i'll be getting it. Goddamn marketing!
  • photoboy #22 2 years ago

    Fable II wasn't too bad aside from the utterly tedious mini-games that required MMO-style grinding to level up your various skills. I seem to recall I gave up on the game when it became clear the grinding was needed to progress the game.
  • LiveForever #23 2 years ago

    Molyneux the hypocrite.
  • Doctor_What #24 2 years ago

    As unfashionable as it is to say this:

    I loved Fable II and played it constantly 'til the end. 10/10 for me.
  • VandelayIndustries #25 2 years ago

    I'm still slightly bitter over this :( I really loved the first Fable. (I read next to nothing about it and was pleasantly surprised by it).

    A shitload of promises in the run up to release of Fable 2 and a clutch of glowing reviews had me excited for the game - and then I played it.

    I have never known such a disconnect between the opinion from respected publications and my own opinion. I'm not surprised he considers it flawed, only that a good number of reviewers didn't.

    In regards to Fable 3 I'll wait for the views from the regulars in the forum.
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 15:56
  • geeza2020 #26 2 years ago

    Fable 2 was alright. Not a 10, but not a "broken" game either. It was an average fantasy jaunt, with a few issues with crashes and some rather repetitive mini-games. Personally i will be playing the third one, and thats because the previous two games were perfectly passable rpg-lites.
  • fongy #27 2 years ago

    You cannot believe a word this guy says...
    Not one...
    He used to be a legend...
    Now he's M$'s monkey / jester / spin doctor...(in that order)
  • darkmorgado #28 2 years ago

    Surprised that Android123 hasn't come on saying that Molyneux is wrong, that the game is the best thing EVAH etc etc.
  • FogHeart #29 2 years ago

    That's it, I'm gonna make a T-shirt that says "Rated Super Black by Microsoft."

    The one that says "We live it Hardstyle" is wearing out now.
  • space_ace #30 2 years ago

    PM's pre-release ambition reminds me of ambitious movie tie-ins (hello Jim Cameron). they are all games, they run into the same problems, stop pretending you're reinventing the wheel. and good luck :)
  • Alatair #31 2 years ago

    Molyneux said exactly the same thing after Fable I's release, the Deja Vu is sickening. He makes these resolutions but then just screws up again and keeps saying he's going to change. He's the game designer equivalent of a crack addict.
  • S.J.Rogers #32 2 years ago

    After the awful mess that Fable 2 was, i would not touch Fable 3 with a stick...

    We all know that in 2 years time he will say he hated 3 but 4 will be GREAT..!
  • metalangel #33 2 years ago

    @Alatair: Better than the analogy I've used before, that PM fans are like battered spouses believing that it really was the last time, things will be better from now on!
  • menage #34 2 years ago

    Fuck it, I loved Fable 2, completed it twice.

    All you fashionable haters can suck it. Like no one enjoy's anything anymore, it's all crap, broken, etc. I had great fun farting up the local townhall and sacrificing some peasants. I'd rather have Peter chatting up his dreams than Kotick ramming CoD down my throath.

    Couldn't make a sexy women in it though, he's right.

    ". I seem to recall I gave up on the game when it became clear the grinding was needed to progress the game. "

    Bullshit, you didn't need to grind one bit to get any further.
    Edited by 3 at 15/07/10 @ 16:25
  • Gambit1977 #35 2 years ago

    How can someone defend him for being a perfectionist when he openly states at time of launch how amazing it is? It's not perfectionism it's headline grabbing crap.
  • tachometer #36 2 years ago

    Why was this man put in charge of overseeing other studios when it's obvious he can't get his own house in order? I remember reading a few months back how he was helping Bizarre Creations with their new racer, fat lot of good it did them. He seems to have made the jump from hype mongering fantasist to taking an active role in fucking up any MGS game he can get near!
  • kinky_mong #37 2 years ago

    Christ almighty, I would rate Lolyneux as a bigger prick than Kotick! For example take a look at this article where he claims it deserves a 9 and is his best work ever...

    [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/molyneux-wou ld-give-fable-2-9-10
    ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/molyne...[/link]

    ...and I remember another interview where he said the only things he wasn't happy about in the game where som lip-syncing issues. And what did we actually get? A buggy mess of an "RPG" with dire Sims like aspects to jobs and family tacked on.

    There is not a chance in hell I'm getting fooled again by his hyperbole.

  • Miths #38 2 years ago

    I stopped playing when I gave my female character a skill/trait/whatever that made her look like an ugly body builder :). Granted, the game had been boring me to tears for a few hours before I arrived at that point - so it just seemed like a good point to stop.

    I've been a major RPG fan since Baldur's Gate (the PC game of course), but Fable 1+2 were definitely moderately competent games at best in my opinion - and unfortunately not interesting enough for me to bother actually playing either for more than around ten hours or so, with an increasing urge to stop, building along the way.
  • Mudo #39 2 years ago

    So what was the long list of features he hated? The map, the loading, .... ?
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 16:32
  • NewbieZilla #40 2 years ago

    Is anyone actually surprised by what Molyneux said here? Seriously? This is his pathology.
    Edited by 1 at 15/07/10 @ 16:36
  • modo_komodo #41 2 years ago

    Not exactly what fans who paid out for the game want to hear, is it?

    Imagine someone telling you 2 years after you buy a product that it's shit! What a dunce.
  • NewbieZilla #42 2 years ago

    modo

    He has done the same so many times now I've lost count. He'll do the same after X time of Fable 3 being out. And people will still buy it, or react in shock. Jeez, this roundabout gets tedious.
  • Diogo_Ribeiro #43 2 years ago

    And it only took him two years later to admit it, after double that time spent in hyping the game.

    Curious, that this is only done after numerous gushing reviews praising morality systems that were already outdated decades ago.

    It's the equivalent of a bunch of virgins wanking to internet porn then when the porn clip ends, the woman was a transexual.
  • modo_komodo #44 2 years ago

    It would be really interesting if you could pull together quotes to prove that.
  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #45 2 years ago

    Fable II is amazing. I think "Huge design flaws" is just PM being OTT as usual.

    It does certainly have some flaws, but how much they annoy is just down to how forgiving you are. Most of my favourite games have various "clunky" elements, or design decisions that you sort of have to work your way around: if the game or the world is good enough, you ignore them or just deal with them.

    Personally, I've had so much fun with FII it's a definite 10. But I can clearly see how the flaws could knock it down a point or two.

    Also, it's definitely a gorgeous game. The lighting and the pastoral scenes are beautiful.
  • mkreku #46 2 years ago

    I am playing Fable 2 right now and I'm absolutely appalled how this game could have gotten 10/10 from Eurogamer. It's so shallow! And dull! And money has no meaning! And the mini-games SUCK! And for some reason it's like looking through Vaseline goggles when I look at the graphics! The production values are through the roof but everything else is mostly bland.
  • TopKatt #47 2 years ago

    I love Peter Molyneux. After his comments the other day, I've thrown out all my books and DVDs because they're not about him.
  • spudsbuckley #48 2 years ago

    Fable 2 was a great game but Petey annoys the hell out of me.

    Why can't he just shut up?
  • I\'mListening #49 2 years ago

    At first, I thought Fable II was really mediocre, a backwards step for RPG's, and would have easily considered it a 5/10 game, but then the world really sucked me in and I ended up absolutely loving it. It was one of my favourite games of the year along with Fallout 3, and I will definitely get the next one.
  • NewbieZilla #50 2 years ago

    modo

    I went to look up some stuff to back up what I said. I found a good list of some links, but I'll link to where I found them rather than ripping someones info myself.

    [link url=ht tp://www.giantbomb.com/fable-iii/61-27878/is-peter-molyneux- to-be-believed-about-fable-iii/35-426914/?page=2
    ]http://ww w.giantbomb.com/fable-iii/61-27...[/link]

    Last post.
  • Mercatoria #51 2 years ago

    I hated this game only because it crashed and refused to load after getting about 3/4 of the way through.

    super black in testing and super black at release.
  • trip919 #52 2 years ago

    'Microsoft exclusive RPG Fable II was "terribly messy", "rushed" and suffered from "huge design flaws", creator Peter Molyneux has admitted.'

    Hmmmm..........

    'The Lionhead Studios boss went through a long list of Fable II features that he hated, before telling the audience how Fable 3 will improve upon them.'

    Ahhhhhh.....

    Old game shit, new game brilliant.

    Please shut your goddamn mouth Peter.
  • Saxo #53 2 years ago

    Well i liked fable 2 anyway :D
  • dfua #54 2 years ago

    Fable 2 is still worth 10 in my view, I can't believe how many hours I actually put into it. One of the few games I've got the full 1250GS for. Yes there were somethings that didn't work out such as the pub games and the money system but I really enjoyed it.
  • HoraceGoesSquiffy #55 2 years ago

    Peter Molyneux In "My Last Game Wasn't Quite As Good As I Made Out At The Time" Shocker!
  • RodHull #56 2 years ago

    I loved it too EG.
  • menage #57 2 years ago

    I know a lot of games were money is worth shit, Red Dead and Zelda being the first to pop in mind.

    Hardly call the game shit because of them, At least you can buy the world in Fable 2 with it.
  • Stratix #58 2 years ago

    I loved the game. Had a great time on it.
  • darc #59 2 years ago

    What he isn't quite putting together is that the problems with Fable II were essentially self-correcting. e.g. 40% of the game was broken and/or lame, but the other 60% comprised an excellent game, and most players were smart enough to adapt and ignore the garbage.

    I loved Fable II at first, then began to hate it as it introduced boring and poorly-implemented systems, then loved it again when I realized I could just play through the game without them. The only exception, I guess, was having to literally wait around as a powerless prisoner - everyone had to tough that one out.

    Oh, and the control system for spell casting was irredeemable crap.

    I guess you just have to be in the right mind set for Fable II. Have some time to kill, a hot cup of coffee, whatever. It's comfort-food gaming. Somewhat shallow as some have charged, but that doesn't mean it has nothing on offer. 8/10 for me, and I'm a pretty tough sell. :)
    Edited by 3 at 15/07/10 @ 19:28
  • fm5858 #60 2 years ago

    What? Fable II got 10/10???

    It's an average RPG that doesn't even look as good as Oblivion.

    (looks at review)

    I think this precise review score is the start of all the arguments and controversy over review scores on this site.

    If you look at recentish EG scores on metacritic you see they mostly tend to be a bit lower than most of the other sites. However Fable II seems to be right up there with all the others.

    When people saw Fable II get 10/10, they thought all future games would be getting an equally easy ride, but in fact it was just a blip and EG has settled into being fairly harsh / picky compared to other sites scorewise.

    When a platform exclusive gets a mark one or two lower than maybe it deserves, the ensuing fanboy comment chaos is maybe understandable if you bear in mind that people are expecting it to be marked on the Fable II scale rather than the normal EG scale.
  • JayKwon #61 2 years ago

    I thought Fable II was really inventive and an very relaxing wonderful experience. No wonder if people expected an hardcore RPG they didn't like Fable. All Molyneux's fault though, he should stop saying stupid things about his games which just aren't true. He needs to promote Fable as it is, not as he wants it to be and definitely not as a RPG.

  • darkphoenix #62 2 years ago

    Loved Fable 2.
    This guy seriously needs to shut up and look for professional help.
    He just insulted thousands of people that bought his game, and it hurts even more for those that actually loved the fucking game.
    Molyneux, you are an idiot.
  • djed #63 2 years ago

    we had, at one point, 67,000 bugs.

    It's funny, he said the exact same thing about Black and White all those years ago. Maybe the Lionheadders should look to hire some decent programmers (with oversight)?
  • Shikasama #64 2 years ago

    Screw you all, I enjoyed Fable II for what it was.

    Was it worth 10/10? Who cares, I got my moneys worth.
  • patchbox360 #65 2 years ago

    10/10 lol

    as good as mario galaxy 2, i think not
  • metalangel #66 2 years ago

    @darkphoenix: I bet you like books, too. You blandness-inducing bastard.
  • uzivatel #67 2 years ago

    I bet that Fable III is going to have huge number of flaws again ... and I am going to love it anyway.
  • coolbritannia #68 2 years ago

    I've always said it was an 8/10 at best. Good to see that view finally validated, less 10/10's please, you should be more critical.
  • Bulbatron #69 2 years ago

    I loved Fable II, much more than the original Fable. Hopefully Fable III will be at least that much better again than Fable II.
  • FuzzyDuck #70 2 years ago

    Fable III - vote with your wallets, folks!
  • CaptainQuint #71 2 years ago

  • dfua #72 2 years ago

    "Fable III - vote with your wallets, folks!"

    Already have, got it preordered.
  • jambo74 #73 2 years ago

    3 is about to be released and we are told 2 was crap...so do they think we are all stupid?
  • The_Bloody_Kettle #74 2 years ago

    I missed the hype on both the Fables', and bought the first on a whim and the second on my experience of the first. Both amazing games, but looking back at all that was promised.. It -really- undelivered.
    8-9/10 for me. As there were issues, so it doesn't deserve a perfect score.

    Shame I can't get the next one as my Xbox broke and I got a PS3.. Oh well, Demon's Souls it is then!
  • mkreku #75 2 years ago

    Oh, and I don't get the equipment system in Fable 2. Ok, I can handle weapons (buy the most expensive one), but what about armour? I can't find any! I had to buy SOMETHING and I ended up buying the most expensive things I could find.. which turned out to be a pirate's suit and Elvis glasses. Now I look like a clown, every person in the world is in love with me and I still have no armour :(
  • Ryze #76 2 years ago

    I'm afraid I just didn't have the patience to be bothered working out what the hell you were supposed to do.

    I got bored very quickly, even when the first part was given away as a free download.
  • HarryTuttle #77 2 years ago

    Yes, yes Pete it most certainly did. And yet I fell for it. AGAIN. Because the first chapter was so awesome, and the premise sounded so good, and the reviews were so positive, and because I had no idea how goddamn fucking bored rigid I would be two-thirds in by the utterly shallow challenge free gameplay and the paper thin joke of a plot. And since I felt the same way after Fable I (which I at least managed to finish) I really should have known better. Shame on me. But I will swallow no amount of hype for the next one, Fable: go to hell.
  • WizenWolfBain #78 2 years ago

    Cheeky me! I actually loved Fable 2. From beginning to end. Just as i thought the "campaign" couldn't improve... I was thrussed a few years in to the future and all of a sudden another huge chunk of the campaign landscape was unveiled after at least 15 hours of gameplay. FANTASTIC!

    Molyneux can say all he wants about Fable 2 now that Fable 3 is aboit to release... But me and many of my friends were captivated by Fable 2. And we consider it an asset to Lionhead. I'm not even an RPG kinda guy. But i appreciate the Fable world so much!

    And i actually thought the graphics (and lighting effects) were pretty good for 2008, especially considering the games out around the same timeframe.

    Perhaps not a 10/10 game, but it's definitely worth a go. Even if you're not a massive RPG fan (like me).
    Edited by 1 at 16/07/10 @ 01:43
  • Telepathic.Geometry #79 2 years ago

    Why is Fable III 10 quid cheaper than Fable II on the site ads?
  • Harmonica #80 2 years ago

    I was the biggest fan of Molyneux back in his Bullfrog days, but there's almost no reason to pay attention to his or Lionhead's respective output these days. All shill no substance.

    Guy needs to do himself a favour and go back and replay his previous games from the 90s and work out what it was that separated them from 90% of all other games in terms of charm and style and gameplay.

    ..then buy the rights to make Magic Carpet 3.
  • hiddenranbir #81 2 years ago

    "But we've got a big problem. Because a lot of our world is persistent, we can't afford the memory. We tried and experimented with trying to stream load it, but we didn't actually get it working."

    Start supporting 64-bit OS, Peter. 32-bit gaming has reached its limit. 4GB is no longer enough to handle all the stuff you want going on at once. And hell, that isn't even what you've got to work with on consoles.
    Edited by 1 at 16/07/10 @ 08:58
  • dr_faulk #82 2 years ago

    This guy is becoming a real damn pain in the ass.
  • muscleblade #83 2 years ago

    I personally think Alan Wake is a much better game than Fable 2. I dont think i will buy Fable 3.
  • bodypopper #84 2 years ago

    On this basis, I'm going to assume the equally ambitious Fable III won't be bug free at launch either so I'll wait six months for patches to be released and a nice big price drop to occur in the meantime.
    Cheers, Mr Molyneux.
  • superdelphinus #85 2 years ago

    oh so is it fashionable NOT to like it now?!
  • modo_komodo #86 2 years ago

    NewbieZilla

    Very interesting compilation. Thanks man!
  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #87 2 years ago

    Fable II is one of my fav games this gen. The atmosphere and graphics style are great, especially when the games starts. It had some great story moments and was very relaxing to play. The faults that are there didn't break the game so lets calm down with the FATAL FLAW OMGZ exagerations eh.
  • sybs #88 2 years ago

    Oh ffs, this is a stupid marketing strategy.
    It's great for him to say now that he doesn't like his previous game, therefore his new game will be so much better.
    I was hugely disappointed by Fable 2. It was so shallow and riddled with stupid repeating voice recordings that I couldn't concentrate on enjoying what was essentially a very cool fantasy world.
  • darc #89 2 years ago

    I think it's great that I can agree 100% with the previous two posts. :)

    Still worth playing after you get the well-warranted grumbling out of your system.
  • MdaG #90 2 years ago

    Not my cup of tea. Way too easy and no penalty for dying. Nice art though.