Molyneux asks critics to do him a favour

By Tom Bramwell Published 7 October, 2008

Wants us to get a non-gamer to play it too.

Having given Fable 2 9/10 in his own unofficial review last month, Lionhead's Peter Molyneux is now dispensing tips and instructions to those of us who had to wait.

According to Variety, US review copies were accompanied with letters from Molyneux asking critics to "please, please, please, please, please find somebody who doesn't play games, watch them play it and see how their world turns out, because I think it's only when you see those differences that the unique experiences comes through".

Fable 2 was designed to "appeal to anybody", he said, and it's certainly been a theme of Molyneux's public pronouncements and the systems upon which the game is built, including the simple combat mechanics and the dog, who acts as a visual cue for a lot of content and events you might otherwise miss at a glance.

Molyneux also explained that the delayed online co-op mode would not be available to review until after the game comes out.

Lionhead is far from the first developer to issue letters and pleas with its review code, as you might imagine. Most recently, in a letter accompanying copies of Alone in the Dark from Atari, developer Eden Studios spoke up for its unorthodox design and politely asked reviewers to pay attention to it.

Fable 2 is due out exclusively for Xbox 360 on 24th October, and you can read our most recent Fable 2 hands-on preview for more information, and check out last week's interview with senior folks on the Fable 2 art team for more insight into the game's development.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (66) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • HansGr00ber #1 3 years ago

    Did he mean to send the letter to Euronongamer?

  • The_Inquisitor #2 3 years ago

    According to gamesTM this month, he didn't give it 9/10 but rather, said he would give it 11/10 if asked.

  • Ignatius_Cheese #3 3 years ago

    Oooooh dear... Come on Peter! Don't do a "Factor 5" on us... :o/

  • Rirekon #4 3 years ago

    Didn't someone else try this not that long ago? Can't actually remember who but I seem to remember it not going down well then either.

  • Spanky #5 3 years ago

    Don't do him a favour, he doesn't deserve it. Play it as you'd play any other game, very few people are going to be playing it under instruction.

  • seasidebaz #6 3 years ago

    More like 8/10




    I will, however, get the missus to play it. She's kind-of a non gamer. And I don't think she'll like it.

  • DFawkes #7 3 years ago

    While he's at it, he could always change his request to making a die-hard Fable fan play it. Or an unstoppably optimistic person who loves everything.

    I've seen proper non-gamers try to play similar games, and they just spend half the time running into walls and the rest of the time not knowing where they're going. It won't get you a better experience.

  • Derblington #8 3 years ago

    "Play it as you'd play any other game, very few people are going to be playing it under instruction."

    Indeed. The fact that the worlds can turn out differeent is irrelevant if you need someone who's never played games to highlight that - most of us online will be playing it with other gamers and if we all see the same content then it's a bit redundant.

  • bengray66 #9 3 years ago

    I think its a good idea personally.

    I quite enjoyed Fable, in fact i played through it twice, and I'm very much looking forward to Fable 2.

    I think its good because most (not all) "professional" games reviewers seem to be complete toss pots. Getting someone, with no - little experience to play through it might introduce a whole new demographic. After all games are for all to enjoy.

  • captainrentboy #10 3 years ago

    If the game uses dual analogue controls for movement, he's got no chance of my girlfriend (or a few of my other mates come to think of it) playing it at all. What is it about using two sticks for character movement that drives non-gamers friggin mental? :)
    Didn't Lair send out some kind of special request with its review copy?

  • space_ace #11 3 years ago

    can i put peter on ignore?

  • bengray66 #12 3 years ago

    Mogs, you genuinely seem to be an idiot.

  • chris_ace #13 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 11:55:13 13-12-2011

  • paulf #14 3 years ago

    why he didnt resort to the usual 'if you dont give this game 9/10 or above you'll never get another game from us again ever' approach that other companies allegedly employ is beyond me ;)

  • Xerx3s #15 3 years ago

    "Peter Lolyneux LOL. "

    The joke is on the likes of you as can only make bitter snides to a successful person on the internet.

  • Bulbatron #16 3 years ago

    Possibly not the smartest thing for PM to do, because people always then want to do the opposite - particularly in the video-game world. Not that it bothers me though, I'm still really looking forwards to Fabe II. Though I enjoyed the original Fable, I actually found it more cumbersome even than Oblivion, so if the new Fable really is that 'non-gamer friendly', then they must have put a lot of effort into streamlining the whole experience, but without losing the depth.

    As for Alone in the Dark, I wonder what the accompanying letter said...

    'Dear Mug,

    Please would you kindly Beta-test this broken piece of shit for us, as we can't be arsed to test it ourselves.'

    If they really do patch Alone in the Dark, to bring it in-line with the FINISHED PlayStation 3 version, then I would be more than willing to re-evaluate it, but until then my Crap out of 10 mark still stands.

  • Xerx3s #17 3 years ago

    "hope this clown shoes of a game flops lol "

    ... Correction. Bitter and sad.

  • muscleblade #18 3 years ago

    Please not another Alone in the dark even though it undeservedly got 7/10 here. I dont really care though since we all know Gears 2 and Left4dead will be amazing.

    edit: Maybe Eurogamer actually listen to the letters?!
    Edited by 1 at 07/10/08 @ 09:58

  • Beano #19 3 years ago

    "please, please, please, please, please find somebody who doesn't play games..."

    Yeees, let someone who doesn't know anything about games, review it.. wow, Peter... just WOW !

  • captainrentboy #20 3 years ago

    According to the MCV mag that comes to my workplace, Fable 1 was the third best selling title on the original Xbox just behind 'you know what' 1&2. Something I wasn't actually aware of.
    So I can't see why this one, which looks considerably better, would flop on its release.

  • kangarootoo #21 3 years ago

    Seems like a fair desire to have, but whether its a fair question to actually put under the noses of journalists is another thing altogether. There are probably better ways to steer an audience than to ask them outright for favours.


    "Peter Lolyneux LOL"

    Holy christ that is lame. Either this is a deep satire on the nature of internet forums... or an idiot.

  • locus2k1 #22 3 years ago

    Hey Molyneux can ya do me a favour?

    next time you guys plan a Collector's Edition, attempt to get all the items for it a bit better, hell tell the sellers too, as gamestation cannot stop apologising about not knowing the CE has lost so much and still charging me 49.99

    /em grumpy

    may cancel pre-order, but would feel bad for getting pub games for nothing *grumbles*

  • Daikon #23 3 years ago

    Having given Fable 2 9/10 in his own unofficial review last month

    WTF! No Peter, you don't get to review your own games.

    And what's with the 9/10? If I was reviewing my own games I'd be sure to give myself a proper 10/10.
    If he really thinks it's worth "just" a 9/10 he should postpone release and smooth out the areas which keep it from getting a 10/10.

  • Widge #24 3 years ago

    I wonder if he is going in for the Spore angle with Fable 2 as far as target audience?
    Could be a disappointment for the gaming majority who have been vocal in looking forward to this, might be less so for a new audience (if it can hook them in).

  • locus2k1 #25 3 years ago

    On a lighter note:

    Think he's just worried about getting the same criticism that Assassin's Creed got. I remember one magazine (gamesTM or EDGE, cannot remember) gave it something like 3/10 for being all looks and even more repetition. Though i have not played AC myself (have it ready to play, once i get through every other bloody game coming out in october/november) i have heard many people say it was overlooked by Reviewers because they had to pile through it, making the game feel like a chore. Those who casually played it felt it was criticised too much, guys at penny-arcade for one.


    What happens if this is how the reviews for Fable II is rushed through to the end for reviewing sake? the same results? Either way i loved the original, and will be buying Fable II (without the hobbe figure etc :( ) and will play it like i played the first:- exploring as much as possible! Fun before rushing the plot, i want to own at least one entire village before i complete it :D


    How was AC for everyone in here?

  • peteb #26 3 years ago

    @Daikon

    IN that original interview, the question was: "what would you give the game, based on your original hopes,expectations and ideas for it".

    So a 9/10 from Peter based on his often wacky and lofty expectations is quite good. :)

  • septimus #27 3 years ago

    Going to get it as it can't be worse than the first one and I did quite enjoy that.

    The wife played it at MS about 6-7 months ago, said it was pretty good, though not her kind of game. Maybe it has improved since then.

  • Bezzy #28 3 years ago

    Yeah, don't just get a non gamer. Get a non gamer from cornwall.

    They will be so overwhelmed by the magical journey up to london in a steel snake that their mind will be blown by the pretty colours and moving shapes of Fable 2!

    For fuck's sake, don't ask an expert. Ask a cab driver what he thinks. BASE ALL YOUR OPINIONS ON THAT.

    P.S. I have nothing against the game. I am sure I will buy it and enjoy it despite certain molyneuxisms.
    Edited by 2 at 07/10/08 @ 10:39

  • ThePissartist #29 3 years ago

    I was looking forward to this, I'm quite worried now.

  • marilena #30 3 years ago

    I've heard many developers say things like that, showing how little they understand marketing. Why would you include a non-gamer's opinion in a publication only read by gamers?

  • bitesize #31 3 years ago

    Yeees, let someone who doesn't know anything about games, review it.. wow, Peter... just WOW !

    not what he said tho, is it - he never said get a non-gamer to review it, he said watch a non-gamer play it, and you'll see the difference in worlds that result. but obviously, don't let the facts stand in the way of venting a ton of bile every time molyneux gets interviewed.

    not quite understanding what everyone is so up in arms about, seems like a fair comment to me...

  • Markusdragon #32 3 years ago

    Pleading is never going to work. He should have challenged reviewers to get non-gamers to play it, then they might have listened.

  • rumrum4444 #33 3 years ago




    Do this man a favour !!!


    If there´s someone who desirves it that´s him !


    Molyneux desirves it more than kojima and a lot of people bought his crappy mgs4 !


    .


  • hiddenranbir #34 3 years ago

    Appeal to anybody?

    That means everyone will whine about it lacking "depth".

  • hjarg #35 3 years ago

    Well, let's look at the track record of Lionhead:

    Black and White: Craptastic. Kinda fun, but tedious and with really annoying interface
    Fable 1: Grrrrr. Promised revolution, ended average
    Movies: Also, great fun-great-fun playing, but whoever designed then interface should be shot. And some other logic problems there.

    Basically, all these games had something in common- they were ridiculously overhyped. Molyneux, if given chance, would babble for hours of how great the B&W, Movies, Fable would be and how they all are going to revolutionize the genre and basically how the Peter Almighty is the game designer of the millenia. It's a real shame all these games turned out to be just average.

    But anyone notice a pattern here?

  • OllyJ #36 3 years ago

    To give him credit I do wish all reviews came with a second opinion, and not always as a counterpoint but just as an honest seperate view. I'd much prefer to read the opinions of a few people than one person.

  • Laroxus #37 3 years ago

    to appeal everybody = dumbed down game = no fun interesting gameplay = spore

  • andywilkie35 #38 3 years ago

    gonna be great

  • bengray66 #39 3 years ago

    Well, let's look at the track record of Lionhead:

    Black and White: Craptastic. Kinda fun, but tedious and with really annoying interface
    Fable 1: Grrrrr. Promised revolution, ended average
    Movies: Also, great fun-great-fun playing, but whoever designed then interface should be shot. And some other logic problems there.

    Basically, all these games had something in common- they were ridiculously overhyped. Molyneux, if given chance, would babble for hours of how great the B&W, Movies, Fable would be and how they all are going to revolutionize the genre and basically how the Peter Almighty is the game designer of the millenia. It's a real shame all these games turned out to be just average.

    But anyone notice a pattern here?

    What the fuck are you babbling on about????

    Black & White (and B&W2) were, and still are great games. Someone gives you a complete breath of fresh air, unique, colouful, radically different, and you sodding moan about it! Well piss off back to your generic brown and grey FPS / RPG / whatever...

    Fable 1, was a pretty good game, and I would challenge you about the revolution part. I think it changed a lot of things, especially after release. It was a very solid game, with a good story line, and of course the whole good / evil thing.

    The Movies, I've never played so I won't comment on it.

  • Moribundman #40 3 years ago

    Woohoo! Mogs the occasionally funny PS3 Troll has set up camp on EG in addition to CVG. And he's brought FRIENDS!

    I somehow regret not trolling the Drake's Progress board and ripping into another platform's exclusive in spite of it being a good game... Maybe I'll have a go with LBP instead.

  • bitesize #41 3 years ago

    But anyone notice a pattern here?

    yes. molyneux says anything, a bunch of moaning wankers infest the comments thread with things like "lolyneux".


  • michaelius #42 3 years ago

    Hmm review sites is designed for gamers to read. So why exactly would we want non gamer perspective in article ?

    Also if I might write my petition for Peter
    "Dear Peter
    Please stop making those failure at being rpg games and produce us another part of Populus"

  • smoison #43 3 years ago

    hjarg

    I definitely see the pattern and have long stopped believing in his bullshit.

  • Garulon #44 3 years ago

    "How was AC for everyone in here? "

    I really really liked it, played it all the way to the end. The missions were insultingly simple and repetitive but the platforming and combat and chasing was absolutely ace.

  • kangarootoo #45 3 years ago

    @Bezzy

    Where to begin.

    Firstly, when it comes to games, what exactly is an expert? A professional critic is someone who is paid to review games. That is all. Quite how that makes their opinion more valid than the gamer that actually paid out of their own pocket to play the game, I don't know.

    Secondly, nobody suggested the non-gamer should write the bloody review. PM simply suggested that said journos see how other people interpret the game and gather their opinions, rather than base their review purely on only their own experience. Seems like a perfectly valid course for any professional reviewer to take, you know, to get the most information and give the most indepth appraisal.

    So often it seems that peple suggest you can qualify fun based on experience, and that if a casual gamer doesn't enjoy the game their opinion is worthless because they haven't "put in the hours".

    The only thing that matters is how your target audience perceives your game. That is all you can ask for. You can't please everyone so you don't try. If the head of development is saying that the target audience is more than just the hardcore minority, that the target audience is your grandma or a cab driver, who are you or I to tell him otherwise?

  • Les #46 3 years ago

    Given that game reviewers are conservatives to the extreme, if your game wanders from the norm, this is not a bad thing to do. Will probably not help much, but why not give it a try?

  • kangarootoo #47 3 years ago

    ""How was AC for everyone in here?"

    Big highs and lows (no pun intended). The running about and climbing was fantastic, the combat wasn't so hot. I didn't finish it in the end as the last part of the game was all about group combat, and I got bored. I would play it through again though, just for fun of exploring.

  • dingo75 #48 3 years ago

    I received a letter from Peter, too:
    "Can you please get drunk and smoke pot before trying Fable 2?
    I promise you will find the game much more enjoyable that way!"

    Peter should work with this other clown on "Too Human 2 - You will like it damnit!"

  • hjarg #49 3 years ago

    "Black & White (and B&W2) were, and still are great games. Someone gives you a complete breath of fresh air, unique, colouful, radically different, and you sodding moan about it! Well piss off back to your generic brown and grey FPS / RPG / whatever... "

    And just uncomfy to play, interface sucked, story was rubbish and overall bad bad bad. Just like cow poo is unique and radically different thing to eat for lunch, doesn't mean that is automatically good :p

  • Lachsgeruch #50 3 years ago

    While I might let my girlfriend play fable 2, it's a stupid thing to say, Peter.

    Even if she likes it and her unique world turns out to be all bubbles'n fairies...
    ... I AM the one who's paying for the game, not her - not she for herself, but I for MYSELF. So it better suits ME or I'll shitcan (ebay off) it, as soon as I hit the hyped-to-death-and-beyond barrier, pretty common these days and ages. :(

    So I can tell you: I'd give a fistful of nothing how wonderful NON-GAMERS will like your game. The Non-Gamer tends to be the one, NON-Buying your games. So, stupid approach. :)

    I'm wondering, how many non-gamers have a non-xbox360 in their homes... -.-
    Edited by 1 at 07/10/08 @ 15:04

  • WinterSnowblind #51 3 years ago

    In Molyneux's defence.. He hasn't really been hyping up Fable 2, his past games have suffered because of that, but he's clearly learned from that. Anyone claiming Fable 2 is overhyped, simply doesn't know what they're talking about. There's been very little coverage of it at all, and every time he's announced features, he's always demonstrated exactly how they work.

    Also, on a Livewire video he said he had no idea where the "9/10" quote had come from, but that he has definitely never said that.

  • ronuds #52 3 years ago

    Maybe he's worried that most "gamers" will play Fable II in the same sort of way and thus end up with the same sort of game world? Think about it...all of us here are probably going to be reading forums and hint sites and do the same sort of stuff. Someone who knows nothing of Fable II or much of games at all might do something completely unheard of in internet land and thus end up with largely different results.

    I notice a lot of PM hate here, yet FIFA '09 is the top selling game? So...EA's rehashed year-over-year BS > A dev who's passionate about games and wants to make something different.

    Then we wonder why the market is going in the direction it is?

  • kangarootoo #53 3 years ago

    "Anyone claiming Fable 2 is overhyped, simply doesn't know what they're talking about"

    Well I'm not sure that is strictly true. PM has been waffling on since year 0 about how Fable 2 will introduce actual and tangible love to a video game for the first time (though he has stopped going on about that recently, so maybe someone had a word).

    Really? Like actual love? Really? I'll believe it when I see it (which, I predict, is never).

    If someone makes reasonable claims about their video game, then we do indeed need to wait until we have tasted the pudding before proof is absent. But if someone makes ludicrous claims which anyone with a brain knows are almost certainly unachievable, I think it is safe for some of us to make the call a little earlier than normal.
    Edited by 1 at 07/10/08 @ 15:29

  • dingo75 #54 3 years ago

    I notice a lot of PM hate here, yet FIFA '09 is the top selling game? So...EA's rehashed year-over-year BS > A dev who's passionate about games and wants to make something different.
    The problem I have with PM is that he is a truely good talker and always manages to get me excited about his projects. However he is that good that his games can nothing but fail afterwards.
    I remember before B&W came out a German magazine here ran a 10 part report about Lionhead Studios with full blown behind the scenes showing those guys at work at B&W and making it look like the 2nd coming. I bought the game on release day and god did it suck compared to what PM had promised!
    Same with B&W 2 and "The Movies".
    I'd rather see PM work secretly on some new project and stop the goddamn hyping unless the game is finished and he can talk about what is really in the game.
    Only one company can justify this amount of hype and that is Blizzard. If they say: You will die while playing our next game I'd better sort my will out already. Anyone else should shut up and deliever first...

    And come on how on earth can he try to tell people how to experience his game?
    If I choose to play his master piece in one long sitting of 36 hours or whatever while feeling miserable it's my choice to do so.
    If he plans his game to be enjoyed in small sips like fine wine then tough luck for him.
    Same like these ridiciulous adverts to go to the cinemas to watch movies instead of small Iphone screens...
    Edited by 2 at 07/10/08 @ 15:38

  • bitesize #55 3 years ago

    FFS, if you hate reading the guy's quotes so much, do us all a favour - next time you see a news article with the word 'molyneux' in it, don't read it!! rather than reading it, clicking straight through to the comments and ranting about how you hate reading his quotes! will make life easier for everyone...


    edit: shocking misplaced apostrophe.


    Edited by 2 at 07/10/08 @ 16:44

  • mikew1985 #56 3 years ago

    @ ronuds

    Yes your point might be valid except for Fifa 09 is innovative and probably the best football game released yet on a home console. I bought it but i'll also buy Fable 2. I appreciate orignality and new ideas in gaming and i believe that along with Fifa 09 fable 2 will have both of these.

    Don't just jump on the EA/Fifa hate bandwagon for the sake of it, in case you hadn't noticed it's not that cool anymore.
    Edited by 2 at 07/10/08 @ 16:13

  • bengray66 #57 3 years ago

    small sips like fine wine

    Thats incorrect. Fine wine should be inhaled through the nose, then a generous mouthful whilst the aroma is still working its way through you nasal passage. A small swig, but not obvious, followed by a gradual release down the throat, mixing the in taken aroma with the taste as it passes.

    Anyone caught "sipping" will just look like a tight bastard, and sniggered out of the restaurant.

    As previously mentioned in here, why all the hate? If you don't want to play the game, or don't like the look of it, you don't need to flood the forums with nonsense!

  • kangarootoo #58 3 years ago

    I used to be a lot more down on PM that I am now, but I was still never as weird as some people who genuinely seem to feel aggression toward him (the internet is full of nutters though).

    However, it is kind of a bit lame when people continually defend his random musings by saying "at least he is enthusiastic". Seriously, I was pretty enthusiastic when I was 3 years old, but you wouldn't want to hear what I had to say at every spare moment.

    He has made some very good games in the past, and the teams he works with turn out some good stuff these days (I know the internet can only deal with binary states of total love or massive hate, but all of Lionhead's previous works were pretty good by degrees), but we tire of the usual ramlbings.

    That is all. Pure enthusiasm wears thin after a while (just ask my mum).

  • ronuds #59 3 years ago

    @ mikew

    Would it matter if FIFA '09 were "original" and "innovative"? I think it would be #1 either way, whether it was the biggest piece of crap every made or not - and I think you know that too. There's no problem in liking FIFA, I'm just saying that a lot of the people who buy a game like FIFA and slag off PM for having some passion about his creations are the same people who will later complain that the gaming industry is being overrun by crap.

    I understand why people are jaded by PM, but you can't particularly blame him for every feature he talked about that didn't make it into his games. It's not always his decision. He just likes to talk about his ideas, which he seems to be learning isn't the best way to go about things these days. Whether or not his games have every feature he's said would be in them, they ultimately end up "usually" being pretty good regardless - once people get past the fact that you can't do something meaningless like grow an acorn into a tree.

    Anyway, whether or not PM asks reviewers to let whomever play Fable II, I have every confidence that it will be an excellent game, especially if the 1st is anything to go by. It won't matter, though...people will still hate PM and call him the "C" word. :p

  • mkreku #60 3 years ago

    I loved Assassin's Creed. The only thing I didn't like about it was that killing people had no consequences. I could stand in a town and kill 2000 guards and they would just keep on coming, stand over the pile of bodies yelling "Who did this?" and then turn their backs to me.. But it was a fun game!

  • smelly #61 3 years ago

    Online game "journalist" arent.

    Most dont have any journalism training, and are just fanboys who play a lot of games.

    They have to judge a game based on a few hours of play, and because they play a lot - they find the games to be easier/etc than most "mere mortals" would.

    So I can kinda see where peter is coming from here..

  • patchbox360 #62 3 years ago

    why would someone who doesnt play games ... play games??

  • migasUK #63 3 years ago

    more like 10/10

  • Vandrius #64 3 years ago

    Every time I see this guys name (frequently) it causes me to gain another ulcer.

  • CapnCloudchaser #65 3 years ago

    I don't see why everyone hates this guy so much.

    Shouldn't games designers be allowed to talk enthusiastically about their own games? Being a games designer and developer means you need to have that energy and enthusiasm coming out of your skin constantly, and I love it when it pours into the public domain. I dunno about you guys, but I like hearing and reading about prominent figures within the industry and I love it when they talk about their games, or games in general. Shocking that, wanting to hear the people who make the games, talk about the games, on a game website. Really shocking!

    The people that actually hate this guy.. Maybe you need to keep away from the Internet for a bit.

  • actionfitz #66 3 years ago

    Dear Eurogamer,
    Better than Halo.
    kthxbye

    Best Regards
    Peter Molyneaux.

  • metallicorphan #67 3 years ago

    i think the game will be great no matter what,but it depends on if it could be better like the first one,could of been


    and i wonder if there will be a lost chapters Fbale II as well,LOL