Killzone 2

By Dan Whitehead Published 7 January, 2009

Welcome to Helghan.

Killzone 2 has much to prove. The first Killzone, released for the PS2 back in 2004, was hailed as a "Halo killer" before release, a rather unfair burden that it ultimately failed to shoulder. Graphically ambitious, its tale of ferocious future war was perhaps too much for the poor old black obelisk to handle. The frame-rate was sticky, the draw distance short. Review scores, inevitably, were mediocre. Then there was that big kerfuffle about pre-rendered footage, screenshots that were scrutinised to an impossible degree, and the lingering insistence from vocal gaming "enthusiasts" that each new PS3 exclusive must apparently single-handedly prove the worth of the console in every conceivable way.

Comparisons to Halo were the blunt sticks used to bludgeon the game in 2004, and it seems unavoidable that Gears of War will be the new benchmark against which Sony's current great grey hope will be judged by fans of kneejerk comparison. Both, after all, feature a quartet of tough-talking soldiers pushing behind alien enemy lines, both take real-time environmental detail to grimy new levels, and both are structured as a relentless military campaign, with constantly changing primary objectives providing the backbone for the level structure. Where gameplay is concerned, however, Killzone still has more in common with PC shooters like Rainbow Six than any supposed console rival.

Not helping the Gears comparisons, the first five levels of Killzone 2 form one long, almost constant firefight. From the moment your landing platform hits the acrid soil of Helghan, you're defending a convoy into the heart of the capital, Pyrrhus, as Helghast troops block you at every turn. The first level is Corinth River, and it's here that you get to sample the new first-person cover system for the first time. Killzone is nothing if not tactical, and those approaching it with a run-and-gun mentality - or just hoping to be able to absorb damage and shoot from the hip - are doomed to frequent bloody death. Thankfully, taking cover is simple and intuitive. Holding L2 snaps you to whatever cover you're standing alongside. If it's low cover, you automatically crouch to suit.

'Killzone 2' Screenshot 1

You play as Sev, the guy at the front. The others are the hardy boys who follow you through the game. Any similarity to other quartets of rugged space soldiers is purely coincidental.

The left stick can then be used to sidle left or right behind your makeshift defences, leaning out when you reach the end, while pressing up pops you over the top to return fire. Should your gun run dry while standing, you'll automatically drop back behind cover while you reload. You can also blindfire over the top. Damage is indicated by splatters of blood around your peripheral vision, indicating the direction of the shots, and the game uses the now-traditional recharging health system. The blood creeps in, colours drain out and if you can't find a safe spot, you'll be face-down in a heartbeat.

Weapons are mostly low key, with a natural emphasis on small arms. There are rocket and grenade launchers, but these are scarce and generally best saved for tougher foes. Instead, you swiftly settle into the rhythm of the game - sweeping and clearing entrenched areas, pressing forward one piece of cover at a time. Shooting on the fly is a good way to waste ammo, and most of your kills come from short, controlled bursts taken down the iron sights view from a safe vantage point. Finding these strategic sanctuaries becomes increasingly tricky as the game evolves, but that's all part of the challenge.

Movement can feel sluggish to begin with, but that's because you're moving like an actual soldier would. Stick sensitivity can be tweaked, but this sense of weight is constant - and important. You're not playing as a floating gun, hovering around a battlefield, and the feeling that you have actual in-game mass helps to ground the combat even further in the realm of the real.

There are no rocket-powered leaps here, but pressing the jump button next to an obstacle of scaleable height allows you to vault over it. Although you don't see your hands actually propelling you over, it feels a lot like Mirror's Edge in terms of physical heft and momentum. You also have limited interactions with scenery objects like switches, valves and explosive charges. The latter two make use of the Sixaxis motion sensor to turn and lock them into place, while the steadiness of your hand on the controller determines how stable your sniper shots will be.

Enemy AI, one of the sore points in the first game, seems convincingly tough, even at normal difficulty. They'll use cover as effectively as you do, try to flank your position, flush you out with grenades and even duck, roll and shuffle to safety if they're caught in the open. If a Helghast trooper is making a break for different cover, and you start firing in front of them, they'll stop and try to head back the way they came. A small touch, perhaps, but indicative of the intelligence you're up against. Their lifelike responses are made more convincing thanks to some excellent animation, which holds fairly steady across all the character models and environments. When a fellow member of Alpha Squad busts a door down with his shoulder, there's genuine weight and momentum to the action. Flags and tarpaulins flutter angrily in the constantly raging Helghan storms, while swirls of dust and billows of smoke display particle effects that manage to be impressive without feeling distractingly showy.

After Corinth River, the game evolves its storyline alongside the journey of the ISA convoy into enemy territory. Blood Meridian brings you up against the Helghast's most terrible technology: Arc Towers. These use an electrically charged metallic element to deliver lightning strikes with surgical precision. Needless to say, you're the one sent to bring it down. From there, you encounter a ferocious siege stand-off in Visari Square, get separated from your unit in the Salamum District, and finally find a way to get the ISA spearhead across the Salamun Bridge and into the capital palace where Scolar Visari, the despotic Helghast leader, hopefully awaits his fate.

It doesn't work out like that, of course, but to say any more would be unfair at this point. Thankfully, just as the game is starting to feel more than a little samey, after five levels of painstaking progress through the grey and black shanty town streets of Pyrrhus, it opens out after the sixth level and even takes a sharp narrative left turn. The environments change from claustrophobic streets to a more open-plan layouts, and the colour palette starts to evolve beyond the deliberately oppressive murk that has surrounded you so far. You also, finally, get to play with some of the vehicles.

'Killzone 2' Screenshot 3

Story details are dropped in by NPCs as you go along and, yes, this screenshot is from gameplay, not a CG cut-scene.

Prior to launch, Kristan said of the original that it was "not an everyman game" and it quickly becomes apparent that the same holds true for this belated follow-up. This is a deliberately paced tactical game, where death is a constant threat and basic knowledge of workable military tactics will serve you well. It's brutal, sometimes fussily so, and many will find its unforgiving nature a turn-off. Plenty more, however, should relish a high-profile game with a truly hardcore style, especially with production values as polished as this.

There's much more to be said, of course, but you'll have to wait until next month to see if the whole game can deliver on its early promise.

Killzone 2 is due out exclusively for PS3 in February. We'll have our review up in a few short weeks.

Picture of Dan.

About Dan Whitehead

Dan has been writing for Eurogamer since 2006 and specialises in RPGs, shooters and games for children. His bestest game ever is Julian Gollop's Chaos.

Read more articles from Dan by visiting the Dan Whitehead archive page.

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Comments (155) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Pedrolot #1 3 years ago

    Mmmm

  • mcbi4kh2 #2 3 years ago

    I enjoyed reading that, nice article.

    I'm glad its taking more of a tactical approach, run and gun doesn't do it for me.

  • dr_faulk #3 3 years ago

    I forgot that I bought a PS3 over Christmas and that I should be paying attention to articles like this.

    By the way, I really liked the first Killzone.

  • muscleblade #4 3 years ago

    Might be the second "killer app" for the PS3 imo.

  • jack_klugman #5 3 years ago

    No co-op, off or online. Hardly keeping up the competition here.

  • Widge #6 3 years ago

    Not played an FPS with a cover mechanic before .... should be interesting.

    In fact, the last FPS I played was Unreal Tournament 3 where I just constantly belted around with my finger jammed down on R1! Should be a bit different.
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/09 @ 14:01

  • DrDamn #7 3 years ago

    Just as I was starting to feel a bit meh about yet another - admittedly pretty - FPS this hands on has peaked my interest yet again. I really like the sound of the gameplay. I never really could cope with run'n'gun - getting too old. :)

  • mcbi4kh2 #8 3 years ago

    Not too bothered about no co-op, but the lack of split-screen is a big disapointment for me.

  • KayJay #9 3 years ago

    Cracking read that, enjoyed it. Good effort Dan a solid EG 8/10 for you ;-)

    This game is continuing to sound like a must have. Cant bloody wait.

  • the_dudefather #10 3 years ago

    Doesn't have Cole Train, or even any Juice. Hardly keeping up with the competition here.

  • Benno #11 3 years ago

    looks average

  • Benno #12 3 years ago

    and no co-op means no sale

  • NotSoSlim #13 3 years ago

    Co-op will be added if people want it. Guerilla have said numerous times

  • NorfolkNClue #14 3 years ago

    DrDamn - my sentiments exactly. I've been completely jaded my most new games on any platform; despite it's similarity to Gears 1, I reckon I might acutally enjoy this game.

  • Moonprince #15 3 years ago

    You look average but I bet you still get a girl now and then. Like them with you - give it a chance...

  • Dizzy #16 3 years ago

    Hardcore is good when it comes to online action. I loved the original RB6 for the quick killing and hardcore play style. Looks like KZ2 is going after that crowd.

  • Widge #17 3 years ago

    The game also features Home support, so hopefully with a combination of pressing select and the shoulder buttons you can do the Running Man.

  • mazzl #18 3 years ago

    this does look like it;s shaping up pretty nice.
    i do find rainbow six vegas very difficult so this isn't for me.
    no split screen is a shame, but should not be a dealbreaker.
    go! go! dutchies :p

  • grantc7 #19 3 years ago

    Treated myself to a PS3 over the holiday period, with this game high on the ''must buy'' list. Also, happy to hear it is going for the more tactical approach!

  • Vanmunt #20 3 years ago

    meh, looks shit... crap fps, no co-op not as good as...

    oh hang on, I HAVE a Ps3.. 'fricken sweet' this game just sounds better and better, looking forward to a challenge for a change (apart from Valkyria!!) Gears was way too easy, so happy days.

  • WiseNail #21 3 years ago

    Hoping this turns out better than Resistance 2, which I came away from a bit disappointed. Whilst it was good, it just wasn't as great as the Eurogamer review led me to believe.

  • Loser #22 3 years ago

    jstar,

    you kiss your dad with that mouth?

  • muscleblade #23 3 years ago

    "Hoping this turns out better than Resistance 2"

    Depends on your taste since KZ2 is a lot more tactical. Technically it will be on the same level as R2 maybe a bit better but not as good as Gears 2 despite some PS3 fanboys claiming otherwise. Either way its the gameplay that matters the most and hopefully KZ delivers in that department.

  • TLKCydonia #24 3 years ago

    Damn I really want a PS3 right now, this looks amazing. And judging by the article, it seems to have got the mix between tactics and action just right, a good mix of CoD and RB6 - in other words, the perfect shooter for me.

    Now can someome please do something like this for Xbox? (And yes, I know Gears exists, but it just doesn't feel right, not quite either action-packed enough, or tactical enough).

    Edited by 1 at 07/01/09 @ 14:35

  • Mr-Bozzey #25 3 years ago

    from the beta i was in ..... awesome online modes sure no online co-op but then again not bothered about that.

    this game is epic as for for those " oh its just another normal FPS nothing amazing here same as COD" i cant wait for you to get it and relise how wrong you are.

    it employ tactical thinking and as for campers .. well cant see them being a problem anymore.

    its shits all over COD from a great height and doesn't say sorry and im glad because this is what a real 1st person shooter is !!!

  • zuljin #26 3 years ago

    "...while the steadiness of your hand on the controller determines how stable your sniper shots will be."

    Awesome, that was in the beta. Once you get used to it, it actually becomes a help instead of a hindrance. You start sloping your hands just to finetune shots...

  • Widge #27 3 years ago

    Since Dan previewed K2 last year and did the R2 review, I asked him what he thought was better of the two. He replied saying that R2 was more fun but K2 was more satisfying. This made me think of Warhawk, which I read loads of people struggle to get into but I get joy in spades from. So if that is the satisfaction that K2 gives, then I'm going to be rather happy with it.

    Plus offliners will probably love the bots so they can multiplayer. Be interesting to see how their AI makes the multiplayer feel. Only games I've played with bots are Perfect Dark N64 and UT3.

  • Widge #28 3 years ago

    One reason why I'm more keen on this over COD is that you're unlikely to see Killzone 3 hit in 2010, 4 in 2011. I can see it getting supported by nice DLC and DLC feels a lot nicer to buy when you know your game isn't going to be superceeded in yearly iterations.

  • Apologie #29 3 years ago

    Uncharted 2, God of War 3, Gt5 and Killzone 2 will own everything in 2009... cant wait.

  • rhinoxious #30 3 years ago

    "We'll have our review up in a few short weeks."

    If only, I find that weeks tend to drag on abominably at this time of year. If anyone at Eurogamer knows how to speed up the general tedium of Jan/Feb the please share.

  • Kenshin001 #31 3 years ago

    For what it's worth I was in the beta and enjoyed it even though I'm not a hardcore FPS player. Actually I'm pretty crap at them. Looking forward to the SP though I have some reservations, story, dialogue etc. Hope it is at least an intense experience.

  • dsmx #32 3 years ago

    lol rhino GT5 won't be coming out this year, GT's are always delayed.

  • Goodfella #33 3 years ago

    Depends on your taste since KZ2 is a lot more tactical. Technically it will be on the same level as R2 maybe a bit better but not as good as Gears 2 despite some PS3 fanboys claiming otherwise. Either way its the gameplay that matters the most and hopefully KZ delivers in that department.

    So what's the difference with you claiming it won't be as technically impressive? That's no different than so-called fanboys claiming it will be.

    Played it have you?

  • Widge #34 3 years ago

    Broad appeal games are few and far between on PS3/360 really.

  • zuljin #35 3 years ago

    @mrmrc84
    "Its this kind of attitude is what will leave your 360 equals screaming from the rooftops if this gets any less than a 94% average."

    Well I think if it gets less than 94%, its a massive failure, and if it gets more then Eurogamer is obviously getting paid by Sony.

    Poe's law in case anyone is unsure.

  • XAleX360 #36 3 years ago

    @muscleblade

    PS3 fanboys?It's publications, colleagues, websites saying so, not PS3 fanboys. Killzone 2 is said to be the best console looking game ever made by many more sources you would like to admit.

    Great to hear it's tactical, I love that approach.
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/09 @ 15:27

  • BOFH_UK #37 3 years ago

    "This is a deliberately paced tactical game, where death is a constant threat and basic knowledge of workable military tactics will serve you well."

    I was really looking forward to this after hearing so much good stuff from the beta but frankly tactical FPS's only really work on the PC, you just don't have the subtlty on a control pad to do them properly. More worrying still is the comparison to Rainbow Six on the PC, not Vegas, I hated the R6 series with a passion. I also hate control schemes that use the L3 or R3 buttons for core gameplay as it never feels natural to me somehow. (don't even get me started on using the 6 axis controls) I'll still have a look at the demo but this just took a major nosedive on my wanted list. I also really can't see this shifting a great deal of PS3's if it's really a tacitcal shooter, they've never been a particular popular sub-genre and I can't help but think there's going to be a fair few 8/10 (or less) reviews for this. Which isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination but is it enough for a title with such a lot riding on it?

  • GitSomE_UK #38 3 years ago

    Really looking forward to this.

    Very glad to hear it's got a tactical slant and that it's not run and gun.

  • Rash' #39 3 years ago

    muscleblade, "Technically it will be on the same level as R2 maybe a bit better but not as good as Gears 2..."

    Yeah you wish that was true.

  • Moonprince #40 3 years ago

    Having just finished GoW2 last night and having played a good deal of the early code for this - in my opinion KZ2 is much much better than GoW2, technically.

  • Hellform #41 3 years ago

    I like that this article is self aware of the system wars politics, the bullshit, the drama and the general bufoonery that has surrounded this game. Nicely written.

    Dan, are you allowed to say if you've beaten the game?
    I know SCEE sent out review copies to the major sites, so I'm just curious if anyone at EG has beaten the game.

  • Rash' #42 3 years ago

    I think it's appeal is definitely the hardcore crowd, which is a good thing as you know they will pay through the nose for the experience. If that means buying a £300 "Blu-ray player" then so be it. ;o)
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/09 @ 15:39

  • NotSoSlim #43 3 years ago

    @ BOFH_UK

    If it gets 8's and 7's so what. A review is only an opinion at the end of the day. Some people may like it and some people wont. I personally go by actual gamers opinions and they all love is and say it shits all over COD4 so thats enough for me.

  • Rash' #44 3 years ago

    Farty stop trying to pigeonhole the whole hardcore into the PC market. 360 has built it's rep off the hardcore so think before you speak.

  • Widge #45 3 years ago

    ARGH STOP IT YOU TWO

  • wobbly_Bob #46 3 years ago

    i?m one of the few that really liiked the first game so im looking forward to this
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/09 @ 15:46

  • Thunderbolt #47 3 years ago

    'Damage is indicated by splatters of blood around your peripheral vision, indicating the direction of the shots, and the game uses the now-traditional recharging health system'

    If the game is going for a more tactical aprroach surely the more 'traditional' system of health packs and medkits would be more applicable than a recharging health system.

    Just a thought.

    Edit - Any Marvel fans out there might notice a similarity with the main picture and Star-Lord from the Guardians of the Galaxy- I wonder who copied who?

    [link url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardians_of_the_Galaxy_(m odern)
    ]http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardians_o...[/link]
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/09 @ 15:48

  • Moonprince #48 3 years ago

    Think people are reading to much into the 'tactical' thing. Go watch a gameplay vid and get further impressions from that!

  • Les #49 3 years ago

    So glad they didn't go for the run-n-gun. Loved the slower pace of the original, made it stand out from the crowd (as did its technical deficiencies unfortunately... ;) ).

  • NotSoSlim #50 3 years ago

    As most sites are saying it plays differently to any FPS currently on the market. More than enough for me.

  • Widge #51 3 years ago

    I liked old Master Chief's shield and health bar combo from Halo 1, found it a bit odd that they did away with that for Halo 2

  • DrRobotnik #52 3 years ago

    I love how Eurogamer finally get round to previewing this, days after the first reviews come out :-)

    I'm a 360 owner, not a PS3 owner, but KZ2 is an undeniably promising game. No single game is going to make me want to buy a £350 console, but I'll be sure to visit friends' houses to check this one out.

    Incidentally, rather than comparing it to Gears (which is 3rd person and heavily focuses on co-op play), could we not just see what kind of game KZ2 becomes in its own right? Why set a benchmark for a gaming-style that it's not even trying to emulate?
    Edited by 2 at 07/01/09 @ 15:54

  • Widge #53 3 years ago

    Yeah, I knew some girl briefly from another forum who basically vanished because she was training to go pro on Call Of Duty 2. I still see her on it on xfire when I kick it off nowadays!

    I do like that Killzone is geared so that the hardcore can get what they want out of it, clan tournaments and calendars (and I think this is all in game too) and stuff I seem to remember reading. Whether or not that remains I'm not sure. You do get hardcore on consoles though, I hear tales of the Socom hardcore from the PS2 and Warhawk pretty much has a hardcore following who stick with the game. I reckon people would be more likely to be hardcore with this game for the reason mentioned earlier, there won't be some sequel shoehorned next year for you to keep up with.

  • andijames #54 3 years ago

    £350 is a bit steep fella you can pick one up if you shop around for around £260.

    But you're right it is a lot of money for one game. Does have a fair few gooduns thou now.

  • Rash' #55 3 years ago

    Farty, like I said the definition of hardcore isn't limited to one particular hardware. My point isn't anymore complicated than that. Ninja Gaiden is a hardcore experience only available on 360... do you see???

  • DrRobotnik #56 3 years ago

    "£350 is a bit steep fella you can pick one up if you shop around for around £260. "

    Perhaps, but if I want the top of the range PS3, plus KZ2, plus an extra controller, I'm going to have to shell out £300+, most likely.

    But it's beside the point. All I'm saying is that at the moment at least, the PS3 doesn't offer me enough to justify the purchase.

  • andijames #57 3 years ago

    Completely understand that mate. You're right though extra pad etc does up the cost a bit. Each to there own end of the day :) But it does look like a good game for PS3 owners to have.

  • onezeonx #58 3 years ago

    sounds great and glad i got a ps3 now :p

    online will be amazing if Beta is anything to go by to!

  • Machiavellian #59 3 years ago

    From the read of this article, I am wondering if KZ2 has any WOW moments. I get the impression that the gameplay and environments can get samey. I also remember that the game is pretty short, 6 hours I believe. No Split Screen means I cannot play multiplayer with bots with my son which is definitely not good. No co-op also diminish my outlook for KZ2 as well. Actually right now, the only thing that is really selling KZ2 for me is the graphics. I like tactical shooters so thats right up my ally but I really do not like the 6 axis use. Seeing that you need it for the sniper riffle probably will not be something I like so I hope you can turn it off.

  • Widge #60 3 years ago

    Actually you can pick up the odd bargain on the AVForums classifieds section, I've seen 80GB PS3s with games and stuff going for £200 - £250. Good trustworthy place actually. I've sold/bought/traded a few bits on there myself.

    here if you're interested

    Sections for Wii/360 as well as a host of AV stuff too.

  • NewbieZilla #61 3 years ago

    8/10?

  • Widge #62 3 years ago

    Gears Of War 2 is not a jag fest

  • DrRobotnik #63 3 years ago

    "It's hard not to. Although they are not the same viewpoint, there are a huge number of similarities.

    ----------------------------

    Oh please, you could be talking about any number of high profile 'futuristic' games - Halo, Resistance, COD4, Uncharted, Mass Effect, GRAW, R6V, Fallout, Bioshock, Crysis... I could go on.

    There are too many futuristic shooters set in an oppressive faux-future, filled with over-sized musclebound lead characters. You could just as easily choose one of the above as a comparison - in fact, if you read the article he even says that KZ2 has more in common with COD than it does Gears...

  • merkdot #64 3 years ago

    sounds exactly like the first one, but with the lighting fixed.

  • JohnnyWashnGo #65 3 years ago

    Looks great but sadly I really don't get on with FPS :(
    Now if it had a third person mode, I would be all over it.

  • Foxclose #66 3 years ago

    Eurogamer will probably give it an 7, while it scores 9s and 10s elsewhere.

  • galerian86 #67 3 years ago

    Wow! It seems like forever for us to get this close to launch.

  • Rash' #68 3 years ago

    farty, your definition of hardcore is extremely limited. Hardcore isn't limited by hardware, genre or any other superfluous trait. It is defined by an experience that only a gamer with an extreme sense of dedication can appreciate. While most will walk away from the extreme challenges of Team Ninja's game, the hardcore's extreme sense of dedication will encourage them to persevere.

  • Kenshin001 #69 3 years ago

    "Eurogamer will probably give it an 7, while it scores 9s and 10s elsewhere."

    If the game really is a 9 or 10 it will get that score. If it is better than R2 or on par with COD4 then there is little reason for it not to. GG have had plenty of time to make the best shooter they can and if it doesn't cut it in the end they only have themselves to blame.

  • DrRobotnik #70 3 years ago

    "farty, your definition of hardcore is extremely limited. Hardcore isn't limited by hardware, genre or any other superfluous trait. It is defined by an experience that only a gamer with an extreme sense of dedication can appreciate."

    --------

    This Children, is what we call a contradiction...

    Trying to define a level of challenge (i.e. 'Hardcore') by the traits (i.e. 'extreme dedication') of the people who play it is just as superfluous as defining it by genre or hardware.

    I'm not what you would define as hardcore gamer, but I will complete certain games to their fullest. It really just depends on how enjoyable I find the game, and whether I see it as fun or beneficial enough to warrant playthroughs on tougher difficulty settings.

    Any attempt to solidly define an abstract concept (in this case, the 'hardcore' game) is going to fail. It's subjective, and that's that. That's why we all argue about it so much - there is no correct answer :-)

  • sab3r #71 3 years ago

    I have a question about the Helghast soldiers, I was under the impression that they wore those masks because they had adapted to the atmosphere of their colonized planet so when they invaded other planets they needed the masks to breathe, so...
    why are they still wearing them on their home planet of Helghan, and likewise why aren't the colonial forces wearing masks to breathe?

    sorry to be a lore nerd but surely if you create a story line for a book, game or film you would need to keep it consistent.

    from wiki...
    the Helghast are a faction of human descendants who colonized the planet Helghan many generations ago. The planet's harsh environment forced the Helghast to adapt and mutate so much that they can no longer be considered human. They are stronger, faster and more resilient than their human cousins, and possess a burning hatred for humanity. Except for a small number of half-breed Helghast and trained troopers, they require a gas mask and air processing tank that creates air similar to that found on the planet Helghan.

    please let me know if I have this wrong

  • VandelayIndustries #72 3 years ago

    Well I've played through Gears 2 and thoroughly enjoyed it, but to say KZ2s visuals are on par with it is wishful thinking at best. Just by looking at the Preview Code videos should tell you that the execution of animation, lighting, particle effects and other environmental elements are a good few levels above anything on consoles now.

    The fact that they are pushing this for the hardcore is also good news for those of us getting bored by CoD. And going for the Hardcore certainly didn't hurt the first Gears either.

  • Mr-Bozzey #73 3 years ago

    IMO i rekon the FPS is done best on consoles and is its prefered game type and most famous for along with RPG's.

    if the PC has any best genre it's without a doubt the RTS games thats the only type of game which is portrayed on PC and is a winner every time with games like total war series and warhammer dawn of war,closest the console has come to RTS perfection was endwar and that got like a 8/10.

    Console is best at FPS so many succesful series like resident evil and halo and resistance plus hundreads moreso no doubt KZ 2 will not only prove FPS should be done on consoles it also blows away its FPS buddy like COD,GOW.

    rpg's well there shared on both items pc and console.

    and to say its a hardcore game is a safe assumtion its tactical and you need to think before you act i for one will be making the most of the sqaud feature with the mic and the orders will come thick and fast with my buddys.

  • El-Dev #74 3 years ago

    "Interesting that people that don't even own PS3 and don't plan to buy the game comment most on exclusive PS3 games."

    True, but most 360 owners on the EG forums actually own at least 1 PS3 that they never buy games for or play games on but use it solely to collect dust so when that one system seller finally comes out they can read the review and say it's shit.

  • roz123 #75 3 years ago

    this is really one that could be epic or it could fail completely. The game itself doesn't interest me in the slightest but I'm curious to find how successful it is after the first flopped. Its like the gaming version of 8 mile

  • Widge #76 3 years ago

    Hm, can only assume that the helmet is part of standard issue Helghan warfare attire... I'm sure some sort of lore will be fudged together to explain these things.

    Either that or they wear the helmets all the time because they know it makes them look better.

  • andijames #77 3 years ago

    "Just by looking at the Preview Code videos should tell you that the execution of animation, lighting, particle effects and other environmental elements are a good few levels above anything on consoles now."

    Didn't they say something in the past that they were using a separate core on the SPU for each of the different physics effects or something to that effect? They have done a grand job on it though.

  • SeesThroughAll #78 3 years ago

    Didn't they say something in the past that they were using a separate core on the SPU for each of the different physics effects or something to that effect? They have done a grand job on it though.

    They gave a seminar about using the SPUs for deferred rendering at a GDC, methinks. From reactions of other developers, it sounded like the best use for them indeed, but still scaringly difficult to obtain.

    It probably also is where Sony poured most of the money into, one can speculate.

  • ps3owner #79 3 years ago

    @sab3r

    that's very interesting. I'd like to know why they have helmets on as well then! anyone?

  • tiddles #80 3 years ago

    I have a question about the Helghast soldiers...

    The wiki page isn't quite right - the masks are basically filters which reduce the deadly effect of Helghan's atmosphere, but don't eliminate it entirely, though later generations have become more resistant through genetic adaptation. Mask-wearing also has social and political significance for the Helghast, as well as being an integral part of their military uniforms, which is probably the most likely explanation of why they wear them when invading Vekta.

    The ISA aren't wearing masks in KZ2 because they aren't expecting to be there (on Helghan) very long.

    Backstory here:

    Link

  • sab3r #81 3 years ago

    @ tiddles

    thx dude that clears it up :)

  • El-Dev #82 3 years ago

    Best use I've personally seen of the SPU's so far was in F1:CE, they used one solely for the rain and I must admit the rain did look spectacular in that game. Impossible to drive in but, but very nice to look at.

  • VandelayIndustries #83 3 years ago

    As a side note.
    since this game has been in development for so long now, and much of that time spent in R&D. Could we see the tool set and engine (I presume they are using a custom made one) finding its way to other studios, first party and third? I understand that EA are fazing in the PS3 as lead platform for their games. could be interesting.

  • DrRobotnik #84 3 years ago

    "I understand that EA are fazing in the PS3 as lead platform for their games."

    Really? I must have missed that memo... was it addressed to bullsh*t?

  • VandelayIndustries #85 3 years ago

    "Really? I must have missed that memo... was it addressed to bullsh*t? "

    I'm fairly sure I read that on this site, maybe in one of 'head to head' articles.

  • teabagger #86 3 years ago

    @ VandelayIndustries.

    Wholesale adoption of tools & tech would be very unlikely due to it being highly tailored to the KZ project, though it would be possible to take some aspects of the pipeline and integrate it elsewhere, also take on board specific technical solutions and use them elsewhere. Used to be the case that Sony studios would have tech meetings twice a year to demo key technology with the aim of creating a shared knowledge base. Don't know if that's still happening though. Guerrilla were always key contributors to these, and an all round excellent bunch of guys.

    (edit)

    @ DrRobotnik
    I believe the PS3 being lead platform is true, as it's supposedly easier to port PS3 --> 360 than the other way round.
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/09 @ 17:34

  • andijames #87 3 years ago

    @DrRobotnik

    It's true apparently they are making the PS3 the lead platform for most of EA's games. There was an article on eurogamer a few months ago about it

  • silentbob #88 3 years ago

    retard234 wrote
    Fuck of casual gamers

    Is that the correct collective noun?
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/09 @ 17:36

  • andijames #89 3 years ago

    @SeesThroughAll

    I guess that's why the development time for this title has been a while too as i can imagine it has taken the developers a good deal of time to work out how to get the best out of the PS3 as a whole (SPU and GPU).

    Shows what a talented bunch they are though by the looks of this game :)

  • drumbaby #90 3 years ago

    I want this game NOW!

    Am loving the fight-inch-by-inch approach in Resistance 2, where you get punished for trying to be too gungho, so will defo love this.

  • VandelayIndustries #91 3 years ago

    @ teabagger

    With all that time, money and energy spent it would seem a terrible waste not to get that tech out to as many studios as possible, given the exceptional results that GGs have achieved, graphically at least.

    Good to know.

  • Edz72 #92 3 years ago

    Can't wait to get my hands on KZ2.

    Played it at the expo in London last year and was very impressed :)


    Also read the recent OXM review and it sounded like there was a good few alternative enviroments, not just the ones we've seen.

  • DrRobotnik #93 3 years ago

    "@DrRobotnik

    It's true apparently they are making the PS3 the lead platform for most of EA's games. There was an article on eurogamer a few months ago about it"


    Then my apologies - I take back my needlessly sarcastic comment!

    If it is easier to port from PS3 to 360, at least both consoles will benefit from solid versions of games. Right now the PS3 gets a raw deal.

  • BOFH_UK #94 3 years ago

    "Frankly, that's your personal opinion. Rainbow Six Vegas 1 on the 360 was ace imo and didn't lack any subtelty or flow whatsoever. I couldn't give a toss either about how many PS3s this will shift or not, as long as it will be a satisfactory gaming experience for me personally. And if it'll turn out a niche product, all the better. It's not like the market is exactly lacking dumbed down shooters with 'mass appeal'."

    Umm, yes it is because this is a forum and that's all ANY of us have to offer, our own opinion. Vegas is a very good game but it's NOT a hardcore tactical shooter, not really. The rainbow six games on the PC were but Vegas isn't. Oh, and that's just my opinion as well, yours may differ and that's how it should be. God, how depressing would it be if we all agreed on everything all the time?

    As for how many PS3's this will shift, I really don't care about it personally. I have a PS3 and 360 (and did have a Wii for a year and a bit) and think all the fanboy nonsense is, well, nonsense. However this damn thing is being hyped up all over the place as the killer blow the PS3 needs to ascend to godhood and decimate all that stand before it 'neath it's mighty tread so now the game has to live with those expectations and it's a fair topic for discussion. Doubly so considering that same expectation was what caused a lot of the backlash to Killzone 1 when it was expected to be a Halo killer...

  • teabagger #95 3 years ago

    @VandelayIndustries.< br />
    Yeah, the problem is simply that in order to make large bits of tech work on another existing project often requires so much adoption as to make it more work than simply doing your own stuff from scratch. It also raises issues of support; is it the responsibility of e.g, Guerrilla, to provide support to other studios that it provides tech to? What happens when Guerrilla are in crunch and can't, leaving the other studio struggling and possibly failing deadlines as a result?

    Generally speaking, it boils down to a lack of centrality. I was always suprised that there was never a real drive to have a centralised engine team that basically did the 'Sony Unreal Engine'. The reality is that the studios all work fairly independantly. There are key tech groups that work on shared tech and also a bunch of individuals that tried to encourage sharing of tools & tech, but projects are not required to take on board any of this. Essentially you can only get so far based on good relationships between like-minded and progressive individuals in the middle of the hierarchy, their effectiveness is always going to be limited until a high-up directive forces the issue. Working co-operatively with other studios/projects is often seen by producers as time not being spent on their project, and so as soon as time became tight it became impossible to fulfil commitments to work and share with others. The short sighted approach always seemed to win the day.

    Edited by 1 at 07/01/09 @ 18:06

  • bad09 #96 3 years ago

    It looks awesome and even tho I thought the first was crap I'll get KZ2 (I was sold when I saw it playing at the EG Expo), but its getting really hard to get excited about FPS's anymore - except Riddick and MW2 of course.

  • Chufty #97 3 years ago

    Good article Dan, thanks.

  • Progguitarist #98 3 years ago

    Got 100% off the official US playstation mag.

  • El-Dev #99 3 years ago

    retibra, so you're telling me that sony exclusives are designed to use the PS3's strengths and avoid it's weaknesses?

    No way...

  • Buran #100 3 years ago

    Technically looks closer to Crysis and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. millestones than the other games in the actual gen of consoles.

    Of course, can't beat CryEngine 2.0 or X-Ray Engine, but taking in consideration how low is the power of the 24 ALUs RSX or the 64 ALUs in Xenos compared to the 240-800 ALUs monsters from the cheap HD 4850, the succes of the task is impressive.

    About the gameplay, the online mp seems more similar to COD4/WaW tahn any other shooter: unlockable items, ranks, classes and configurable perks... in a 32 player enviroments that can make your eyes bleed if you play again in another console shooters. The campaign looks like a futuristicf COD 4 without the eternally-dumb-ass-infinite-respawn of mental enemies.

    So, probably this will be a blockbuster in both sales, gameplay and metacritic scores. The main complain to me is the lack of keyboard and controls; UT III is still the only game in PS3 with this k+m support and the only one shooter that I play consistently in PS3. Pads are no designet to play fps, mouses are. I can't undertand why the other shooters don't follow the way of Epic in PS3.

  • BartonFink #101 3 years ago

    From reading the article this really does sound great. Cannot wait to get my hands on it.
    Roll on Feb \o/

  • BartonFink #102 3 years ago

    @Buran - your post sounded like a whole mess of PC mouse+kb elitist twaddle.

    PS3 controller does just fine at FPS but it's no 360 controller though (sixaxis sticks are still in the wrong place.)

    Who the hell would want to use a mouse+kb on a console.
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/09 @ 20:24

  • StooMonster #103 3 years ago

    retibra, good post.

  • KingStevie #104 3 years ago

    Was lucky enough to get a place in the beta for this and have been lost since it finished

    I disagree that it isnt like cod4 sure its more tactical but your cod4 skills will serve you well when you first start off online

    I agree with my fellow beta testers post that it shits on cod4 though , used to go back and enjoy some cod now and again because it was a class game but after killzone beta it just doesn't cut it anymore

    Never bothered to preorder a game in my life but have done for this

    See you all on the battlefield

  • Fab4 #105 3 years ago

    Good to see its heading to the tactical side of things. I didnt buy the last installment of CoD and I hope this can fill my FPS void...although CoD3 is still very enjoyable, mainly because it also actually requires tactics to be successful at it.

  • Dave52 #106 3 years ago

    Sharkxtreme: "goes more intensive all SPEs kick in, and that highest load, when there is massive interaction on screen, DIDN'T EXCEED 60%!"

    I'm trully excited about this. Finally a game engine to take advantage of the PS3 Hardware (the Unreal Engine has had problems). I do believe that the KZ2 Engine will be used in future games. Just as an aside, the new Drake's Fortune is apparently using far, far more of the PS3 processing power too. Can't wait.

  • teabagger #107 3 years ago

    El-Dev, retibra has taken the time to put together a well written post and you're being a dick about it because of... what exactly

  • frugtkompot #108 3 years ago

    Because of what indeed!

    Great post, retribra!

    On a sidenote, I'm also looking very much forward to this game. Hell, I might even make my first pre-order ever :o But damn it can be frustrating to read about this game, and any other exclusive. What is it that makes console and gaming such a "go-to place" for trolls and fanboys? :o I read more retarded comments on any games forum than I do anywhere else, and when it has to do with something that is exclusively on either PS3 or XBOX360 it gets even worse. Luckily EuroGamer has a lot of good posts too, like retribra's earlier, and a lot of other posts in this thread too - but there's always someone like El-Dev too, always.

  • Gradius #109 3 years ago

    Sorry to echo so many others but, no co-op/split screen, no fucking way. What a load of shit. Total disappointment, I was actually looking forward to this, God knows why as the first one wasn't exactly great....I'll stick with Gears of War, thanks.
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/09 @ 23:48

  • HolyJebus #110 3 years ago

    @Sharxtreme

    You love Playstation, we get it, now give it a rest.

  • Sunyavadin #111 3 years ago

    As a long time gamer on rival consoles (DC, XBox, GC, etc.) I've got to say, SHARXTREME, Bartonfink's right. The PS pads have the sticks in a very uncomfortable place. Generally tradition for controllers since the 80s has been to have the main directional control (pad/stick) under the left thumb, and the buttons symmetrical with that on the right hand side. The PS pads have sticks added as an afterthought, a design which has continued even now that sticks are the PRIMARY control mechanism, rather than an underused option. Sony need to catch up with this fact sometime.




    ....and learn how to make good triggers, too. Those L2 and R2 buttons are always really awkward.

  • bonker #112 3 years ago

    "No co-op, off or online. Hardly keeping up the competition here. "

    That's, like, so 1990s ...

  • Widge #113 3 years ago

    The sticks on the PS pad are in an alright position imo, its the resistance they offer. One thing I liked about the XB sticks was that they were firmer. Although people said the DS3 sticks are slightly different to the sixaxis ones (which they are) and I'm not having any probs being precise with them.

    In fact I had a go on a 360 at chrimbo and found the sticks a bit weird, purely because of what I'm used to. Still as I say, Halo 2 plus XB pad equalled great times for me back in the day.

  • frugtkompot #114 3 years ago

    It's all about what you get used to, ain't it? Both the XBOX360 and PS3 serve their purpose, but you of course prefer the one you get most used to. I like the DS3 a lot, and have a friend who thinks the XBOX360 pad is the greatest thing invented in modern gaming, yet when I play at his place, I just can't get used to the difference - both in button placement and "handling".

  • mcbi4kh2 #115 3 years ago

    ..and learn how to make good triggers, too. Those L2 and R2 buttons are always really awkward.
    They're not triggers though are they, they're supposed used for something thats pressure sensitive (accelerating / braking etc).
    Im still not sure why a lot of people use l2 / r2 to shoot.

  • muscleblade #116 3 years ago

    Technically it will be on the same level as R2 maybe a bit better but not as good as Gears 2..."
    "Yeah you wish that was true."

    Wait and see Rash. If Killzone 2 gets better reviews than Gears 2 i admit i was wrong. Most gamers know by now that the PS3 is not the platform with the best looking games. This isnt going to change with Killzone 2 imo. LBP looks pretty good for a PS3 title though.


  • woodyrulesok #117 3 years ago

    @teabagger

    true, also the devs are businesses too. You don't necessarily want your rivals to have access to work you have spent a lot of time and money on even if they pay for a license from you to use some of that info.
    If you have got a proprietary engine and your whole pipeline is set up around that, porting that model to another company without a lot of support would be hard work and obviously doesn't happen very often.

    It would be cool if it did though, imagine some of the games you could make based on the GTA engine.

  • Rash' #118 3 years ago

    muscle, i don't have to wait and see, i'm looking at the preview vids and technically it's clear to see to all but the most hardened xboxer.

    retbra, excellent post. it's nice to know some here have a technical understanding of the PS3.
    Edited by 1 at 08/01/09 @ 09:32

  • Miths #119 3 years ago

    "Most gamers know by now that the PS3 is not the platform with the best looking games. This isnt going to change with Killzone 2 imo."

    I'm not so sure about that. Yep, Gears 2 definitely looks fantastic (I've only played the first hour and a half or so, but that was more than enough to impress me), but judging by recent Killzone 2 videos - all obviously low res and/or over compressed, as is always the case on gaming sites - it certainly looks like it can match Gears 2 on visuals, and possibly even surpass it.
    Getting all those usually more or less dormant Cell cores/SPUs/SPEs/whatever to handle various effect layers, rather than unloading everything onto the underpowered GPU, looks like it might have done the trick. If it indeed has, let's hope (unless you're a 360 fanboy of course :p) that other developers get to term with that coding process as well sooner rather than later.

    I can't wait to get my hands on Killzone 2, although I'm really mostly interested in multiplayer (which should be great if previews and beta reports are anything to go by) and rather less so in the singleplayer campaign, which I suspect I may not even make it through (as the case has been with CoD4 + WaW and Resistance 2).

  • mcbi4kh2 #120 3 years ago

    Why is Gears 2 being touted as the yard stick for console graphics? From the vid's I've seen G2 does look phenomanel (as did the first) but MGS4 won all the 'Best Graphics' awards I've seen awarded. Gamespot, some awards ceremony in USA (it was posted on EG a couple of weeks back) and VGChartz (ok, this one doesnt count).
    If it looks better than MGS4 I'll be seriously impressed.

  • Widge #121 3 years ago

    I just read that co-op is to be patched in at a later date. So co-op lovers keep your fingers crossed for that.

  • mcbi4kh2 #122 3 years ago

    Good news Widge. Split screen or online? I take it they mean online?

  • Rash' #123 3 years ago

    i'll be surprised if co-op is split screen.

  • mcbi4kh2 #124 3 years ago

    Fair enough, good answer.

    I've played the first but not the second. Any chance of that one getting a PC port?

  • Les #125 3 years ago

    "The kicker though is that its become very clear that the RSX is a lot less capable than the Xenos GPU (Sony cutting corners as usual)

    More Sony rushing the PS3 to market to battle HD-DVD. RSX was a last minute job and it shows. PS3 was meant to have multiple CELLs and no dedicated GPU. It's a shame Toshiba (thanks in no small part to MS support) and Sony couldn't prevent the HD format war. Smart move by MS though, would have resulted in a far better PS3 which would have made it hard to keep the hardcore tied to the 360, pixel whores as they are. And of course it would have prevented a lot of money being wasted by both companies and consumers. As MS's prime businesses are built on companies and people wasting money, it would have been a bit much to ask of them to care though... ;)

  • DrDamn #126 3 years ago

    Comparison of different games on a technical level is a bit pointless. Particularly where both games are obviously high-end and in the case of Gears2 and KZ2 concentrate of different technical aspects. It will always go down to a personal preference on the art style.

  • Widge #127 3 years ago

    This has been the least foaming PS3 exclusive thread I have seen to date!

  • muscleblade #128 3 years ago

    @Moonprince

    Liar. Whats you gamertag then?

  • SeesThroughAll #129 3 years ago

    I just read that co-op is to be patched in at a later date. So co-op lovers keep your fingers crossed for that.

    I'm afraid keeping the fingers crossed won't be enough. Register in the GG forums and be VERY vocal about it.

  • YobRenoops #130 3 years ago

    re This hard-on for co-op amongst internet gaming denizens.

    I just don't get it. What happened to the days when gamers were happy with 1p games? As an older gamer now its a bit more difficult for me to find time for me and a friend to get online (or in a room) and game together for a few hours. Life just gets in the way. I'm more than happy for GG to have maximised this for 1p gaming. Don't destroy a game just because theres no co-op, is it really the end of the world that you can't? Would rather have it shoe-horned in to the detriment of the 1p game? Does any of this bollocks I'm typing actually matter or will I get destroyed by co-op nutjobs?

    Also, did I notice some grudging postivity in the article from EG? Don't worry guys, I won't tell anyone how much you enjoy a PS3 game. Watch it come #1 in the 2009 GOTY or something (this is supposition not a prediction internerds) and read all the staff comments saying "Well I can kinda see why people voted for it but its not mine because X,Y,Z"

    *edited because I can't type for shit today
    Edited by 1 at 08/01/09 @ 12:09

  • Widge #131 3 years ago

    You need to have a drop in drop out co-op really. Having played Left 4 Dead, I can say co-op can be amazing fun, although that is a game that is completely designed around co-op.

  • The_vorlon_man #132 3 years ago

    farticus:
    "It's highly stylised whereas MGS has a much more traditional aesthetic. "

    Surely this is entirely the wrong way round.
    MGS is very stylised, while Gears is very very traditional, right back to the early days of shot-em-ups.
    Bald space marines with big metal guns and a derelict cityscape/underground mines etc.

    I've played plenty of FPS and TPSs that have very similar art styles many times before.

    The MGS series, on the other hand, are very much their own thing, and have an art style that is unique and very much down to taste.


    EDIT: Some screenshots of pre-Gears 1 games that look very close to the art style of Gears:

    Quake 4

    [link url=http://ww w.zeden.net/img/2004-09/quake4_...
    ]http://ww w.zeden.net/img/2004-09/quake4_...[/link]

    Doom 3
    http://www.pathguy. com/doom_3.jpg

    Far Cry
    [link url=http://im g.qj.net/uploads/articles_modul...
    ]http://im g.qj.net/uploads/articles_modul...[/link]

    Fear
    [link url=http://ww w.tweakguides.com/images/FEAR_1...
    ]http://ww w.tweakguides.com/images/FEAR_1...[/link]

    Not to mention the entire Unreal series looking virtually the same as each other, and the fact that Unreal Tourney 3 looks identical to gears 1 and 2.

    'Unique art style' indeed.


    EDIT: And eurogamer mods, if you're going to abitrarily delete accounts, the least you can do is send a PM to explain why so we can appeal. Just simply removing ones entire posting history and restricting them form posting is entirely cuntish and unprofessional.
    Edited by 1 at 08/01/09 @ 12:24

  • Buran #133 3 years ago

    BartonFink :

    I like, and seems that I'm not the only guy playing UT III wih keyboard and mouse in PS3, taking in consideration the amount of players that I usually find in my matches. You can see some of my matches in youtube (in maps like Deck, Arsenal, Sactuary, Defiance, Heat Ray or Sentinel, my nick in yt is buran01 and Buran in PSN).

    The controls with k+m are much more faster, responsive, and intuitive. I can beat the bots in "masterful" (6/8 grade in UT3) with k+m, but with pad I can barely survive against the A.I. in 4/8 grade of dificulty. I have both PS3 and 360 (only Halo 3 and SC IV in this one) and I leave from play Halo 3 after finish the campaign: even with the 360 pad -which is slighty better to play shooters than the Sixaxis- the experience was unnatural and unergonomic, so online matches had little interest under this type of controls -the same with Resistance and BF: Bad Company-.

    Part of my succes playing k+m UT III in PS3 is because I have an elevable center table in my living room, that fits perfectly in front of my 46", let me playing with the same confort as in my desktop but using a much bigger (1080p) display.

  • chessboxer #134 3 years ago

    @ YobRenoops

    I too couldn't give a flying fuck about co-op but there seem to be a large group of people who rely on it for some strange reason. Oh well, if they refuse to buy a game because it doesn't have co-op then it's their loss. No MGS(1-4), Half-Life (including sequels and mods), Crysis, Doom 3, Quake 4, Unreal (including Tournaments), Dead Space, Uncharted, GTA4, Bioshock, COD... the list goes on.

    Actually, anyone who says "no co-op no sale" is full of shit. If they have never bought/enjoyed any of the above games any way, shape or form, what the fuck are they doing on this site?

    I hope KZ2 has a solid and entertaining single player campaign. Having been in 2 of the 3 KZ2 beta phases, I already know I prefer it's multiplayer to the likes of COD4 and I have no intention of wasting money on COD:WAW.

    @ farticusmaximus

    I think UT3 on the PC wasn't as popular as previous UT games mainly because it had a shit, almost non-existent single player campaign (makes me wonder if UT3 was sacrificed for GOW2). The multiplayer was ok and it recaptured the movement and feel of UT99 but UT2004 is a much better game in every way. I think Epic said that most people who bought UT2003/4 didn't even play online which means that they missed out on a great multiplayer experience.

    At this very moment in time, there are nearly (a difference of less than 10people) 3x as many people playing UT2004 online than UT3.
    Edited by 1 at 08/01/09 @ 12:45

  • DrRobotnik #135 3 years ago

    "I just read that co-op is to be patched in at a later date. So co-op lovers keep your fingers crossed for that."
    ----------

    Am I the only one who can't stand the fact that because of the prevalence of online users, console developers now find it acceptable to release an unfinished game and then patch it at a later date?

    I know, yes, there is an upside to allowing developers to fix problems that may have been 'missed' during development, but too many executives, BODs and producers have bonuses attached to release dates for this to be a positive thing overall.

    This is exactly why I avoid PC gaming.

  • DrDamn #136 3 years ago

    @YobRenoops
    There is certainly some to be said for not including co-op. It does free you up to produce a more focused single player game. Not all games should have co-op as it doesn't always work or will take something away from the single player experience. It's the same with online / multiplayer - I don't like seeing games suffer because the dev has had to shoe horn in half assed multiplayer to keep the reviewers happy and not give them a reason to deduct points. I'd rather see the effort put in to the single player.

    Not to say I don't appreciate multiplayer or co-op - it's just there is room and reason for some games not to include it. For example whilst I fully appreciated the great experience that was co-op in Gears I think it did have a small but notable affect on the single player campaign - DomAI .

  • The_vorlon_man #137 3 years ago

    farticusmaximus:

    My point was to illustrate that there are plenty of game that are broadly similar basis that defines the art style in Gears and Gears 2, and I proved that eloquently.

    You have done absolutely nothing to indicate how you came to the conclusion that MGS is less stylised in it's art direction, despite the evidence pointing to the polar opposite.

    I suggest you take off your Green tinted spectacles and start actually looking at games without your bias for a change.

    Edited by 1 at 08/01/09 @ 14:51

  • TheRook21 #138 3 years ago

    @ farticus

    you will be pleased to know Criterion are releasing the PartyPack DLC in the coming months...

    although I'm unsure of splitscreen play on it... i think it could all be pass the controller and beat the other person game play...

  • Gradius #139 3 years ago

    @YobRenoops

    "As an older gamer now its a bit more difficult for me to find time for me and a friend to get online (or in a room) and game together for a few hours. Life just gets in the way."

    I know this might seem a little odd on a gaming site but some of us 'older' chaps actually co-habit with *gasp* females! My point being that if a game like this does not have a co-op/split-screen option, it means the Mrs will sit there and whinge until I stop playing and let her watch Emmerdale. Whereas games like Gears/Vegas/Resistance which do offer split-screen mean we can play happily together and not watch Emmerdale, this is why it is important!

    @chessboxer

    You completely miss the point, of course there are great single player games but co-op has become 'expected' within this genre of console game, imagine they released the next Tekken or VF as one player only games, it would suck, as does KZ2 for the same reason. I enjoy a good JRPG or any other single player experience when I have time to myself, but I also like to use my consoles as social devices to enjoy with other people, I guess split-screen is only important to those who actually have a friend/girlfriend etc to play with...What I'm trying to say is, don't be such a hermit.

  • The_vorlon_man #140 3 years ago

    farticusmaximus:

    what a wonderfully well thought out response. You clearly took a long time over that, and wow, what a argument winner here?!

    Seriously, you are the worst kind of fanboy on this site - blinkered.

  • Les #141 3 years ago

    "Whereas games like Gears/Vegas/Resistance which do offer split-screen mean we can play happily together and not watch Emmerdale, this is why it is important for me!"

    /fixed

    My girlfriend doesn't touch the PS3 with a barge pole, unless it is to play DVDs and Blu-Rays. Not even LBP got love from her. She does like her Wii though, but also in small bursts.

    And I've played R:FoM's co-op exactly twice. It was amusing but if it hadn't been included I wouldn't have missed it. I haven't played R2's co-op at all and am unlikely to do so ever. For me co-op in general is a worthless feature. Do appreciate that others will feel differently about it though.

  • Gradius #142 3 years ago

    Les, your little 'fixed' joke is a bit pointless, it's pretty obvious my post was that of my own opinion, and not fact. Of course different things are important to different people but there is no reason an optional split-screen/co-op mode should detract from a single player experience (as long as the devs are competent), that would keep everybody happy. It is pretty backward in this day and age to 'forget' to include such a commonly expected feature in a console shooter. At the end of the day, it's no skin off my nose, it just means KZ2 won't appeal to as many people or sell as well as it could have done...

    I'm personally not a shooter fan, never have been, the only reason I buy them is because they offer a chance for me to play alongside a friend or the Mrs. It was a poor decision to exclude what has become a standard feature of the genre. The Wii (AKA the party game machine) is proof in itself that a hell of a lot of people enjoy a bit of social interaction with their gaming, Guerrilla would have done well to realise this.

  • The_vorlon_man #143 3 years ago

    SHARXTREME:

    Of course, any fanboy worth their salt will try to downplay any important games on the competition's console.
    He wont even enter into a sensible debate when someone responds to his oftentimes absurd comments either.




  • The_vorlon_man #144 3 years ago

    farticus:

    "You are clearly spoiling for a fight thinking I am somehow belittling either KZ2 or MGS, which if you had seen through your red mist of fanboy rage you would find I am not.

    When you present a coherent argument I'll listen but I'm not going to pointlessly bicker with you for no reason. It's not worth my time. Bye now."

    Oh quite the contrary, I simply wish to address your statement.

    You said this, just up there ^^^
    "The reason Gears doesnt win awards for visuals is because the art direction is not to everyone's taste and rather than judge on a technical level most people look at Gears and dismiss it because of the 'gay space marines', not grasping the self-parody that is prevailant throught the game. It's highly stylised whereas MGS has a much more traditional aesthetic. "

    I gave examples of similar looking games to Gears (Gay space marines in coridors and outside, bald marines, etc).
    You are specifically saying that Gears does not win visuals awards because it has a unique style, compared to MGS which you consider more traditional.

    My examples, Doom, Quake 3, Fear, etc. proved this wrong, that Gears is far more traditional - (how else would they, as you say, self parody?), and yet you wilfully chose to ignore that, instead calling names and being very childish about it.

    You also said:
    "I will agree that the in-engine cutscenes in MGS are the most polished I've seen in any game, but the actual gameplay graphics, whilst competant are nothing special."

    Which is also dismissive of MGSs aesthetics.

    You also dismissed KZ2 as being a 'bit grey and samey" for your taste. , and 'on a par with gears.... you also prepared a list of reasons why you will hate it when you get to play it.

    Do you have the memory of a fish? Are you 15 in reality?

    You seem to be quite prepared to make statements, without ever being prepared to back them up.

    You may find this hard ot understand, Farty, but sometimes, just sometimes, you are too far up your own backside to even begin to enter normal debate when it comes to your hated PS3.






    Edited by 2 at 09/01/09 @ 10:03

  • Rash' #145 3 years ago

    trebell, i'm sorry but when it's well documented PS3 has an exotic architecture and will take time to understand, i find it hard to believe "devs" that rush in to these forums making outlandish claims against the system. i'm not saying the sytem is perfect but it certainly isn't as incapable as some "devs" here would like us to believe. this leads me to believe that more here, whether they be devs or not, don't understand the system's architecture and how to exploit it. it's why i found retibra's measured comments informed and worth appreciating, unlike say someone like Calgon who clearly hasn't got a clue.

  • Les #146 3 years ago

    Yeah, the 'fixed' joke was a bit lame. My bad.

    "Of course different things are important to different people but there is no reason an optional split-screen/co-op mode should detract from a single player experience (as long as the devs are competent), that would keep everybody happy."

    Even if the devs are competent, the feature still has an associated cost. Keeping everybody happy is not always the most beneficial thing to do from a cost/benefit perspective.

    Social interaction in gaming is important but TBH I think on sites like these the importance of splitscreen co-op campaigns specifically is significantly exaggerated. Wii's success for example points in a different direction.

  • The_vorlon_man #147 3 years ago

    fartucus, by way of colonoscopy:

    "I'd like nothing more than to be proved wrong by you not replying at all. Ever. "

    Oh, please, you havent proven anything.

    "What you have given as examples are subject matter. Of course there are loads of games with space marines in them. KZ2 has space marines in it. "

    The argument specifically was that Gears was more arty/unique than MGS.

    I gave broad examples of why this was not true. Even screenshots of games that look very similar in style (grey, use of lighting, Space marines). I've even played games with derelict cityscapes before, beleive it or not.

    Stating something does not make it fact, farticus. I didnt merely say 'teh space marines!!zes!', and provided the screenshots, particularly Quake 4 and Doom 3, to demonstrate, that previous games are closer to Gears than any game is to MGS.

    MGS is anything BUT photorealistic, and had you spent anything but a passing second glancing at screenshots of it, you would know this.

    Heck, one can easily see that even Splinter Cell looks absolutely nothing like MGS too, as that game most certainly goes for photorealism, and in fact, far closer in style to Gears!.

    MGS, on the other hand, has a unique art direction - the colouring, the styling of the characters, the way things move, and of course the weopenary, the cinematography in the cutscenes, and so forth. It's as far removed from the photo-realism of games like GRAW and Rainbow 6 as you can get.

    Gears is closer to it's heritage than you suggest, and MGS is far less a 'photorealistic' game. One of the ways Kojima productions managed to make the game look so good in MGS2 was their clever use of colour and styling the game to make it very much it's own thing.

    Gears is far more of a cookie cutter game than MGS ever was or is, and you surely must know that - but then you have a bone and you wont let go of it will you.

    But since you dont believe you'll ever be proven wrong, I doubt anything anyone ever says, short of bashing you over the head with a copy of MGS4 repeatedly, will make any difference.

    I suppose you think a spade is a shovel and that the pope shits in the woods eh?

    You truly are the most green-specced of Fanboys this forum has ever known, and you just like provoking people into arguments so you can get your rocks off.

    Edited by 1 at 09/01/09 @ 11:09

  • The_vorlon_man #148 3 years ago

    farticusmaximus:
    Clearly you live in Bizarro-world, and if Spec-savers is where you get your prescription from, then I'd strongly suggest looking at Dolland and Aitchison :-)

  • TheComedian #149 3 years ago

    muscleblade: 'Might be the second "killer app" for the PS3 imo.'

    Woah.

    The PS3 has a killer app?

  • The_vorlon_man #150 3 years ago

    farticusmaximus:

    As opposed to being bored to death by XBOT propoganda?

  • Bloodhunter #151 3 years ago

    me and my brother used to play the 1st killzone against each other split screen which was really fun, shame this doesnt have it

    other than that looking to be a great game, looking forward to it! :D

  • TheComedian #152 3 years ago

    Who wants to bet that this game will get a Eurogamer 8/10?

    Also, that link was pure propaganda.

    Still think this is going to be good though - co-op is a missed opportunity however, one of the main reasons I buy console games.

  • Grayvern #153 3 years ago

    Its okay if the game is tough but what's really important is whether it loads you to your laast checkpoint fast after you die.

  • VandelayIndustries #154 3 years ago

    "Who wants to bet that this game will get a Eurogamer 8/10?"

    Given some of EGs reviews last year I'd take a 7 or 8/10 as a glowing recommendation :)
    Edited by 1 at 11/01/09 @ 00:36

  • zedzee #155 3 years ago

    "short, controlled bursts"?

    Someone at EG has been watching too much Aliens!

    Come on, even I can do better than that...stop ripping others off and write in your own words. Pathetic!