E74 is not "RROD replacement" - MS

By Tom Bramwell Published 20 April, 2009

But sometimes "there is no difference".

Microsoft has denied that the "E74" Xbox 360 error message is the new Red Ring of Death, although it admits the mutually ominous signs of a dying console occasionally happen for overlapping reasons.

"No," the company told Kotaku when asked if E74 is a replacement for RROD. With that said, "The E74 error message can indicate the general hardware failure that is associated with three flashing red lights error on the console."

"In some cases there is no difference... However, it is not the same failure mode in all cases and there is no single root cause for these malfunctions."

Microsoft recently extended the Xbox 360 warranty to cover E74 messages, so however your console dies, it should be covered.

The company maintains that "a very small percentage of our customers" (same wording then and now) have suffered console death at the hands of E74.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000. Follow him on Twitter.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (60) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • DutchDemons #1 3 years ago

    well, it obviously is not 'a very small percentage' but still it's nice that they don't ignore their hardware failures. i hope they have learned a very valuable lesson about launching a new product (test before release, please).

  • MeBrains #2 3 years ago

    three and a half years on and this still is an issue?!

    they should be filed a lawsuit. this must be the most scandalous example of twisted company ethics in consumer electronics history. knowingly putting a defectuous product on the market. I do not care if they spent billions on "extended warranty".

    to stir things up a bit: Sony got into a whole lot of trouble because of batteries a few years back. About 100 on every million (seem to remember the defect rate was even less) were subject to burning - IF they were used outside specification!

  • b00n #3 3 years ago

    Don't know about that. Most companies just give you a one year warranty and tell you to **** after that period. So i'm happy i can still get my 360 repaired for free so many years after buying it. But hey, it shouldn't happen, true!

  • Toothball #4 3 years ago

    I lost my Xbox to an E74, but that was after a year of hard graft so it wasn't all that surprising. Fortunately I had a week left on my warranty so it worked out that time. Whether it's the same issue as the Red Ring or not, it's pretty good that they're acknowledging that this error is just as terminal, as a brief spot of internet searching when mine hit turned up very little official information.

    The lesson, as always, is make sure you have a spare Xbox.

  • Cyclone #5 3 years ago

    "there is no single root cause for these malfunctions"

    That doesn't exactly make me feel more confident about getting a 360. If there was a single cause it'd (hopefully) be easier to correct. I think I'll wait for one of the Valhalla 360s to see if they can iron out this problem.

  • Fab4 #6 3 years ago

    RRoD is so 2007-8. All the cool kids are E74ing nowadays.

  • moggsy #7 3 years ago

    @Cyclone

    You mean you don't already own one? They don't cost much and have a 3 year warranty for the most serious problems. What's stopping you?

  • chessboxer #8 3 years ago

    @MeBrains

    Several people have attempted to file class action lawsuits against MS over various problems with the 360. MS countered the highest profile one by extending the warranty of the RROD to 3 years instead of the normal 1 year manufacturing warranty. As occurrences of the E74 error seems to have spiked over the last 6 months, MS had no choice but to extend the warranty to cover that too, otherwise someone else would file another lawsuit prompting yet another investigation of the many hardware problems.

  • miiiguel #9 3 years ago

    I guess I appreciate the 3 years warranty but, it's kinda lol the ppl who seems to take this so personally (even more the ones who don't own one), I mean, it's 200 eur, hardly a life changing amount, innit ?

    Anyway, lawyers need to do their thing, and the internetz too.

  • seasidebaz #10 3 years ago

    @moggsy:

    Valhalla doesn't exist yet. It's the combined CPU/GPU combo chip made to 50nm process that may usher in a "slim" 360.

    Also, regarding the E74, isn't it a scaler chip failure?

  • MeBrains #11 3 years ago

    @chessboxer: thanks. I was not sure.

    @miiiguel: €200 might not be a lot for some. there's others for whom it is.

    funny comment about making sure to have a spare xbox though. if that would work we'd be left with nothing but garbage products in stores. come to think of it: the ease with which MS gets away with this practice, might be a good lesson to other companies: put flawed technology on the market, lie about the defect rate throughout and give an incentive when shit hits the fan too much...

    edit: corrected typo.
    Edited by MeBrains at 20/04/09 @ 09:47

  • JohnnyWashnGo #12 3 years ago

    Yup - in consumer electronics, like most other things in life, you get what you pay for.

    Lets face it - if you bought your Alba hi-fi from Asda, you would expect it to be made cheaply and to as few standards as they could get away with. If, however, you got your Onkyo hi-fi components from Richer Sounds, you should be expecting that the kit will last a good many years.

    I see the consoles in this generation in the same way... if you wanna drop less than the RRP of the Wii on an Xbox360, you should be expecting a broken product to begin with as they are obviously cutting corners somewhere to make a profit and you can bet it isn't on exec salaries. Whereas a purchase of a PS3 indicates that you would like your hardware to last a little longer and be built to a higher standard.

  • miiiguel #13 3 years ago

    What I meant is in 10 years you say to yourself: oh good thing I didn't buy that 360! Well I didn't play all those games, but now I have this 200 eur! wooot! I can go buy myself a nice lunch!

    Life changing...

  • oreillymj #14 3 years ago

    @MeBrains While I'm no MS apologist, the Sony battery issue was very different. Lith-Ion batteries are explosive if defective. It would only take 1-2 deaths as a result of house fires for Sony to have a PR nightmare on their hands. Better to take a hit doing a recall then risk people dying, even if that risk is tiny.

    I'm betting that once MS release the 720 (assuming it's reliable), the lame duck h/w that is the 360, will be killed off as soon as possible, just like the original Xbox. You really would wonder how much MS are willing to pour into the console experiment.
    Edited by oreillymj at 20/04/09 @ 10:22

  • ChthonicEcho #15 3 years ago

    I don't have a X360, nor do I intend to buy one, and I usually don't involve myself in discussions revolving around gaming platforms due to massive amounts of stupidity. But miiiguel wins the Idiot Competition. Those two hundred euros could go to savings, or those of a lower class simply might not have spare 200 to spend on such a luxury. Hell, an X360 doesn't come with all the games for it for free, so it's not just 200.
    Edited by ChthonicEcho at 20/04/09 @ 10:24

  • Martin85 #16 3 years ago

    "The company maintains that "a very small percentage of our customers" (same wording then and now) have suffered console death at the hands of E74."

    Outright lies. Nigh-on every single Xbox 360-owner I know (and I know a lot of 360-owners!) has had their console die from RRoD or E74. He may want to spout some shit about "only a very small percentage of our customers" falling foul of the E74 error, but he's a twat. Everyone knows that nearly all 360s bite the dust within a year or so. The only surviving 360 I know of that is older than a year and a half is one that is seldom used. The Xbox 360, as a machine, is an absolute heap of shit. Wonderful console on the games front, but it's less reliable than even the Dreamcast, and I never thought I'd ever get to say that about any console.

    What I find the most sad about the 360's awful design is that even if you manage to have a working 360 for the console's actual life-span, what of afterwards? I have a small collection of vintage consoles, all of which work. I've had my original Xbox for over 7 years, and my PS2 and GC for a similar length of time. All of which still work perfectly. Not to mention my SEGA Saturn, which has been my trusty steed for some 14 years, and still works perfectly. I've had to replace the battery a couple times (in order to store saved games on the console), but other than that it has been an absolute diamond. I've had my N64 since 1997, and I know mates who have original PlayStations which still work fine.

    I know modern consoles are more complicated, but the 360's unreliability is fucking insane. It's like they manufacture it from recycled Walker's crisps or something. They apparently just shite them out of the factories. In ten years, what's the chance of dipping back into my Xbox 360 collection? Not to mention all the Xbox LIVE Arcade games and stuff that I've bought from the Marketplace? It's an utterly unforgivable state of affairs, and the 3 year extended warranty for RRoD and the E74 malfunction are certainly not 'gestures of good will' as some are suggesting. It's something MS simply had to do in order to avoid a class action lawsuit, the scale of which would probably have been unprecedented in consumer electronics history. The money they're losing through the extended warranty may seem colossal, but trust me it's minuscule in comparison to what they would have lost through the courts.

    Never before have a company sold such a piece of shit and gotten away with it. Every time they deliver that bullshit line of "Only a very small percentage of our customers have had consoles die on them" or something to that equivalent, it makes me cringe. I can't believe they could lie like that in a public statement. *Nearly everyone* I know with a 360 has experienced some form of Xbox 360 hardware failure. A few of my mates have been through several of them. My mate Graeme is on his 6th! What an absolute fucking wet fart of a console.
    Edited by Martin85 at 20/04/09 @ 10:40

  • miiiguel #17 3 years ago

    ChthonicEcho, dude, thing is... it's my money, I can be as stupid as I want, by your marxist standrds. You do the principles and judging, I do the spending (of - god forbids!* - my money).

    * - oooh, private property! obscene!


    Edited by miiiguel at 20/04/09 @ 10:52

  • kangarootoo #18 3 years ago

    "However, it is not the same failure mode in all cases and there is no single root cause for these malfunctions"

    Is it just me, or does that actually sound kind of worse.

  • NotSoSlim #19 3 years ago

    "In some cases there is no difference... However, it is not the same failure mode in all cases and there is no single root cause for these malfunctions."

    3 years and they still dont know?? Bloody joke!!

  • dominalien #20 3 years ago

    @Martin85

    Microsoft is a very big company with huge cash reserves and is able to make problems "go away" one way or another (I'm not implying anything unethical here) - either by extending the warranty, or placating business partners and customers in other ways so they are happy and forget about any bad experiences they might have had. I think MS is doing its best to make it so.

    In any case, it's really not cool to have a device you paid for and are hoping to use in the foreseeable future die and to have to find something else to do for the next two weeks. Not cool for Microsoft customers, or customers of any other company for that matter.

  • MeBrains #21 3 years ago

    @oreillymj: you are correct and that is exactly what the company did. Even so, they had a lot of negativity towards them.

    Martin's end of the before-last paragraph sums it up quite nicely. Being able to put crap (engineering-wise!) like the 360 on the market and getting away with it, should be more severely punished than it has been up to now.


    oh... and it does sound worse: after 3.5y they apparently still do not have a clue as to what the root cause is... O_o

  • miiiguel #22 3 years ago

    Moral of the thread: in 22 comments; 19 are whining about the mega-corp and 18 of those don't own a 360 and didn't ever thought of getting one (ever).

  • mkreku #23 3 years ago

    I love how miiiguel is defending these errors and saying it's worth it, no problem, everyone should just buy two. Would be fun to see how it looks where he lives. Two fridges (in case one breaks down), two identical cars (spare parts are good!), two TV's on top of each other (multitask!, but only use one in case of fire). Do you walk around with two mobile phones in your pocket in case one dies too? One MP3-player for each ear? A spare bike on tow every time you go cycling (nevermind that scraping noise, it's perfectly normal)?

    Do you realize how stupid you sound?

  • miiiguel #24 3 years ago

    mkreku:
    Well, obviously off-topic, but by looking at your rethoric there are two major diference in out charecter:

    This: "Would be fun to see how it looks where he lives.": I have no desire whatsoever to put my nose in your life.
    and
    "
    "Do you realize how stupid you sound?": Judging, and adjectivation (that also relates to the former, I think).

    These radical leftists scare me. Them and their pseudo-high standards want to tell me how to live. Sick.

    Edited by miiiguel at 20/04/09 @ 12:17

  • Spekingur #25 3 years ago

    Not knowing what causes the E74 errors and saying that there are there isn't any one cause is not the same. I have a Premium X360 and thankfully I haven't had an RROD/E74 errors yet *knock on wood* - I know one person who has had a E74 error, and another who was REALLY hit by first RRODs, 6 X360s no less. Got a new one each time. He still plays his X360.
    At least MS isn't refusing that there are errors/problems with their console.

    (I'll obviously be labelled as somekind of a X360 fanboy with the above comment. Such is the stupidity of the internet.)

  • Martin85 #26 3 years ago

    "At least MS isn't refusing that there are errors/problems with their console."

    Well, are they not more or less refusing that there's any problems by making statements such as the following..

    "The team is aware that a very small percentage of our Xbox 360 customers have reported receiving an error"

    ..?

    Tantamount, in my opinion. A statement such as the above does not correlate *at all* with MS' unprecedented extended manufacturer's warranty, which in my opinion is a thinly-veiled product recall.

  • MeBrains #27 3 years ago

    @miiiguel: why do you use a political orientation as - what appears to be - and insult? We are just discussing the fact that a company brings a faulty product to market, asks premium price for it (given all the extra's you end up paying for eventually) and gets away with it. imagine buying a car, which refuses to roll. a house which crumbles or a tv which only shows yellow... would you accept? even if it has "Sony" on the latter?

  • tinyspark #28 3 years ago

    Martin85 makes a good point that this is the only console that won't last in the long term. I still have a working ZX Spectrum (yes, im old) and they were considered unreliable back in the day. Im gonna be seriously pissed off when in 10 years I almost definitely wont be able to play any of the games i've bought for the 360. After 25 years i can still fire up the speccy for a quick blast of jetpac (assuming i was masochistic enough to wait for the 20 minute load rather than play on an emulator)

  • Martin85 #29 3 years ago

    Yeah for me that's the sorest point of this whole scandal. The annoyance of having to send it back once or twice every year is a very real one, but what of in years to come, after the 360 is put to bed as a retail product and the warranty is long gone? It's a damn shame, because it's a fucking excellent games machine. I love my 360.

  • dnd #30 3 years ago

    @miiiguel

    so basically because you're rich and walk around blowing your nose with 100 euro notes means that it's ok for MS to put out a defective product? 200 euros is a lot of money to some people, especially in the current economic climate. it's not about what they would feel like in 10 years, it's about how they feel now - if people only bought stuff based on how they'd feel about it in 10 years time, the world would be a very different place.

    though i agree about people who don't own one getting worked up - i don't have one and i don't care that much (except insofar as it makes me mildly more reluctant to buy one - but it's mostly because i don't have enough time btw my pc and ps3 as it is).

  • ChthonicEcho #31 3 years ago

    Looks like miiiguel is a bigger idiot than I at first imagined. I didn't tell you how to spend your money - hell, shove them up your nostrils for all I care - I tried to explain to you why for some people 200 for a potentially defective product is not an attractive idea. Throw your money around, be an idiot; some people act wiser when spending money.

    It boggles the mind how you actually managed to draw communism into a discussion about X360, too. Oh, well, thank God for that 'ignore poster' feature. It actually makes comments readable.

  • Calgon #32 3 years ago

    @ChthonicEcho wait a minute here "Einstein", you are on a gaming discussion board here, the YLOD(or just blu-ray failure) is as big a problem if not bigger(infact Ive seen more people saying their PS3 drive is knackered here) going by circumstancial evidence on EGs forums. A better arguement would have been gaming is a luxury/waste of money in some peoples/families eyes... but no you didn't, like an idiot you made out that 360 is the only way you might end up with a defective product.

    Despite what martin85 claims we dont have any idea how big the E74 is... it doesnt look anything like a RROD2 though thats for sure, people are obviously still sore about the RROD and because of that more noise is made by people with faulty 360 drives or E74s. Not to mention Sony's turn around is super fast, like a couple of days from phoning fast... yet if you are unlucky they will try to charge you upwards of 130 quid for a replacement which is just shocking since the PS3 is already so expensive compared to the competition(while not being any more powerfull despite what Sony tried to feed you by means of hyperbole). So not only is there seemingly a large problem with the PS3 thats getting worse as time goes on... Sony are getting more reluctant to replace/repair for free.

    I can see the type of reaction thats going to get and you know what? I really dont care I think alot of gamers talk shit about how "objective" they are, theres double standards left right and centre, only seem to care about "consumer rights" when its a competitors product in question... how convenient eh? This is the same old hypocritical bullshit thats been going on for years in my eyes.

  • El-Dev #33 3 years ago

    "@ChthonicEcho wait a minute here "Einstein", you are on a gaming discussion board here, the YLOD(or just blu-ray failure) is as big a problem if not bigger(infact Ive seen more people saying their PS3 drive is knackered here) going by circumstancial evidence on EGs forums."


    The biggest lie written on the internet today.

  • ChthonicEcho #34 3 years ago

    And here comes an X360 fanboy who mistakes me for a PS3 fanboy. That's exactly why I try to skip these discussions.

    A PC might be defective (mine was). A PS3 might be defective. And an X360 might be defective. But, as it happens, the article is about X360's failures, and we're discussing the purchase of X360 in particular. Sure, we can talk about buying apples that might potentially be rotten, but that wouldn't make sense, now, would it?

    Perhaps next time you'll pay attention to context, instead of rushing to prove an Internet-goer wrong.

  • Darren #35 3 years ago

    Hehehe... my sixth faulty Xbox 360 was returned to Microsoft last Tuesday so I'm all too familiar with these hardware failures and RRODs. I'm just glad that the 360 is no longer my main gaming platform as having to send them away for two weeks for repair every six months on average is just not on. To date I've yet to own an Xbox 360 that has lasted longer than 18 months and that is a disgrace IMO. Both my PS3 and Wii are over two years old. One of my Xbox 360s lasted just one hour (I didn't even complete the game of Madden NFL I was playing!) and three conked out within a month. They weren't launch models either. While you could argue I've been unlucky and that's not the case for most users, I'd argue that unlucky is having to have your console repaired once not SIX times!!!

    Hopefully the Xbox 360 I get back will see out the remainder of the console's lifespan. Still I don't expect to be using it that much compared with the early days when it was used daily but it seems to me that the best way to ensure the Xbox 360 lasts is simply to do this: Don't use it!!! ;)
    Edited by Darren at 20/04/09 @ 14:05

  • Monsta #36 3 years ago

    I have 4 x360 which get used for about 2 hours a day and arn't looked after. Two of the are from launch day.

    Not one single rrod or e74

    I think its exageraton to say that all x360's fail withing the first year. I only know one person who's had one fail and when i went round to look at it it was in a tiny enclosed cupboard with a central heating rad at the back.
    some do fail but not as many as sony would like you to believe

  • Cyclone #37 3 years ago

    @moggsy

    It's not the cost of the 360 that's putting me off, or even the various problems. I'm doing a masters this year. Don't really have time to play my PS3 let alone anything else. I already have a big pile of games for it and my PS2 that I have to get through. A 360 will probably be the first thing I buy once I'm finished in September.

  • Martin85 #38 3 years ago

    "Despite what martin85 claims we dont have any idea how big the E74 is"

    I didn't claim any specific 'size' of the E74 issue, and my huge rant was about Xbox 360 hardware failures in general, not just the E74. In my opinion it's gone far beyond the point of denial - the Xbox 360 is a heap of shit. It's made out of old recycled foreskins, that's what I heard... :-P
    Edited by Martin85 at 20/04/09 @ 14:03

  • Darren #39 3 years ago

    @Toothball - "I lost my Xbox to an E74, but that was after a year of hard graft so it wasn't all that surprising."

    Not surprising for a Microsoft product called the Xbox 360 maybe but personally I expect my consoles to last a lot longer than a year even if I use it heavily every single day. I know we live in a disposable society where things are no longer made to last - or so it seems - but when you're paying £279 for a console like the Xbox 360 cost back in December 2005, you kind of expect it to last, what, five years at least?

    And this is true of all the consoles I've owned to date... except for the Xbox and Xbox 360 ironically. Five years for me is the minimum lifespan I'd expect from any consoles allowing for the fact that you do get the odd faulty product, that's normal, it happens. The problem with the 360 is not normal though, it's a design flaw that came about because the machine was inadequately tested prior to launch and because the machine itself was rushed out to beat Sony's PS3 to the market.

    The fact that Microsoft are still making statements about the RROD and E74 issues speaks volumes about how poorly built the product actually is IMO. If this really was a minor issue that affected a few users as Microsoft seem to like implying then we certainly would not be discussing them some three and half years after the 360 launched!
    Edited by Darren at 20/04/09 @ 14:05

  • prettyboytim #40 3 years ago

    Mine died of an E74, but it was less than a year old so was covered on the standard guarantee anyway.

    At the time I worried that it was a result of having a component cable and an HDMI cable plugged in at the same time...

  • MeBrains #41 3 years ago

    @monsta: some do fail but not as many as sony would like you to believe

    as far as I know Sony has never really commented on the 360's stability (or lack thereof). I might be mistaking, so please do point me to articles where Sony spokesmen have.

  • Martin85 #42 3 years ago

    I agree with Darren - one year is not 'good going' for any console, now matter how much you use it.

    "If this really was a minor issue that affected a few users as Microsoft seem to like implying then we certainly would not be discussing them some three and half years after the 360 launched!"

    True. Also, if it was such a minor issue, then MS would never have announced such an unprecedented retro-grade 3 year extended manufacturer's warranty. As I said earlier, in my opinion the extended warranty is little more than a thinly-veiled product recall, and a way of putting to rest a massive and highly embarrassing lawsuit that would have otherwise happened. As it is, they are on damage-control, trying to minimize the amount of corporate embarrassment, and characterizing their actions towards extending warranties as some sort of benevolent act to the 'minority' who have experienced technical malfunctions with their Xbox 360s.

    The truth of the matter is that *many* 360 owners (the majority of, in my experience through 360 owners that I know) experience hardware failure well before their console's second birthday, which is a fucking disgrace. It's absurd that people should be 'counting themselves lucky' that their 360 managed to last a year or more, and reflects just what a shit product it is. Any working Xbox 360 is effectively a ticking time bomb. The Xbox 360 was seemingly designed by pigeons.
    Edited by Martin85 at 20/04/09 @ 14:20

  • Calgon #43 3 years ago

    El-Dev ah a PS3 only owner eh? Checked the thread on it have you? Thought not.
    Edited by Calgon at 20/04/09 @ 14:39

  • Calgon #44 3 years ago

    ChthonicEcho perhaps you should understand the point being made before responding in future ;) fanboy ... or maybe since you seem to think you are "above" these discussion dont bother in the first place wading in calling people idiots. Let me remind you... you made about about "saving money" not buying a 360 in particular whilest ignoring all else... my point was this is gaming you could waste money on a PS3 too moron!(infact for me that would be a bigger waste but thats all subjective) Or yes Wii or PC too... most of these people are defensive PS3 fanboys though(which is why I referenced that in particular) still licking their wounds/nursing their deflated e-penis better ect. You really would have been much better off saying 200 is alot for those who see gaming as a luxury or arent really into games... if you really do claim not to be a fanboy/hater of any particular system.

    Infact I wouldnt be suprised if you are stealth fanboy afterall, what a cunning plan that would be "I dont usually join in these discussions or talk about gaming much... but grrrrrr xbot blah blah ".
    Edited by Calgon at 20/04/09 @ 14:51

  • El-Dev #45 3 years ago

    Calgon, you are saying that the PS3's failure rate is more of an issue than the 360's. Bullshit, pure and simple.

  • Calgon #46 3 years ago

    See Martin85 the problem I have with you is not that you shouldnt be angry having being given a rough time with the RROD its that you make too many sweeping statements.

    "Any working Xbox 360 is effectively a ticking time bomb."

    That is bullshit, if you'd have said any pre falcon Xbox 360 then you wouldnt have many arguements.

    The facts are it does have by far the worst record out of the 3 but from launch to where we are now with 360 there is a big big difference.

  • Calgon #47 3 years ago

    El-Dev no thats not what I was saying I wasnt including older 360s or the RROD in that... I meant specifically the E74 and you can say bullshit to that all you like Ive seen very few cases of the E74 and far more failed blu-ray drives recently around the boards.

    It does look like its a problem thats getting more and more common with the PS3 and they have tried to charge people stupid amounts for it, Im sure someone can point you to the appropriate threads or maybe you can, you know... do a search for yourself.

  • cyber_nicco #48 3 years ago

    Two Elites, both pre-Falcon...

    I've had one DVD drive alignment go out (Which might be my fault as I had a terrible tendency to accidentally eject a disc while the glass panel of the entertainment center was closed - causing a collision.) That's it. No other problems here. Very, very happy customer.

    So "to hell with you" I say to the perpetual moaners around here. ;)

    p.s. Entertainment center is backless and well ventilated. No need to lecture me...

  • MeBrains #49 3 years ago

    calgon: the PS3 BR problem does not seem to be worse than 360's E74 or RROD. I think that is misperception. The search comparison linked below compares a very wide "ps3 problem" with the very narrow "360 E74" and "RROD". Even the E74 is overtaking the general Sony search.

    [link url=http://www.google.com/insights/search/#cat=8&q=ps3%20problem%2C%22360%20E74%22%2C%22RROD%22&cmpt=q
    ]http://www.google.com/insights/search/#c...[/link]

    if it were becoming all the more common we would gently be hearing reports about it on games websites. I so far haven't heard any news story. Remember: the obvious RROD problem also took some months before it started appearing on games websites.

  • PlugMonkey #50 3 years ago

    @Martin85 & tinyspark

    Doesn't the old games question rest rather heavily on Microsoft's future policy on backwards compatability?

    My Xbox still works, as far as I know, but it hasn't seen the light of day since the 360 turned up as I have absolutely no earthly use for it. All the Xbox games I've wanted to play have worked just fine on the 360.

    My PS2, on the other hand, finally gave up the ghost and so I had to go out and buy a new one. When that one gives up the ghost (and I already have to balance a book on top of it for it to load a disk. It's 3 months old) what do I do then?

    Completely agree re: the 360's unforgiveable reliability though. I imported my PS3 from America so it has no warranty at all. I wouldn't dream of doing that with an Xbox360!

  • Calgon #51 3 years ago

    @MeBrains: What part of "I never mentioned the RROD" do you ot understand?

    Your own search didnt support what you were trying to acheive, so thats why you simply had to include it because without it it would have looked a tad silly.... poor attempt to deride a completely valid point... not to mention I said based on EGs own forums. Even if your "Google insights" attempt had supported your arguement(which it doesnt hence you bringing up something that was already defeated as I said) that to me doesnt say much at all since one could be talked about alot more than the other through repitition rather than individual examples, not to mention Sony dont give their errors any official names for people to use(YLOD is a jokey wind up taken from the RROD) which is probably smarter in the long run.

    if it were becoming all the more common we would gently be hearing reports about it on games websites.

    If you mean forums yes the reason I mentioned it is because I have heard about it.

    Im guessing you mean from gaming sites themselves and thats quite funny because it really does appear more common than the E74(on its own) yet nobody has reported it... reasons for this could be because they are much quicker to jump on anything MS do now after the RROD(which is MS's own fault granted but besides the point I was making) or perhaps the fact that Sony have a much faster turn around time(leave them no time to sit and complain they have no console to play and they are less likely to mention it) at a guess the difference is PS3=couple of days and you'll have a replacement where as 360=2weeks to a month or more on average.

    Anyway like I said most of the biggest noises about this are coming from PS3 fanboys or haters of MS who'd never have bought a 360 anyway in all likelyhood and nothing to do with being noble/standing up for consumer rights. I think the irony is, if it were a smaller company that wasnt seen as "teh evil" Im willing to bet money people would actually be more forgiving... so its funny to see people claiming "big fat corporation does it because it can get away with anything" yet every little thing they do gets so much exposure where it wouldnt do without the bad reputation.
    Edited by Calgon at 20/04/09 @ 21:00

  • man.the.king #52 3 years ago

    From MS words, it seems like the RROD is a subset of the E74 failures. In other words, RROD is not necessarily E74, but an E74 can be an RROD.

  • man.the.king #53 3 years ago

    @Darren

    "To date I've yet to own an Xbox 360 that has lasted longer than 18 months and that is a disgrace IMO"

    My 360 is one of those rare instances where it hasn't failed yet (and it's a near-launch model too). Of course, my 360 doesn't get as much use as my PS3 (personal tastes), so maybe that's a factor. However, I like to think it is because I take exceptionally good care of all my Consoles (actually, all my electronic gadgets).

  • Martin85 #54 3 years ago

    "Doesn't the old games question rest rather heavily on Microsoft's future policy on backwards compatability?

    My Xbox still works, as far as I know, but it hasn't seen the light of day since the 360 turned up as I have absolutely no earthly use for it. All the Xbox games I've wanted to play have worked just fine on the 360."

    No. While the 360's BC might be good enough for you, there's lots of games I like which either 'work' but do so with horrible glitches, or don't run at all. Since emulating anything means emulating it on a system which is several orders of magnitude more powerful, the 360's BC leaves much to be desired. In fact, it's a miracle that any old Xbox games are successfully emulated *at all* on the 360. So a huge pat on the back for the team that worked on the 360's BC. The problem with your proposal is that technology is currently plateauing somewhat. Let's say the 360 is twice as powerful as the original Xbox, the 360's successor will not be twice as powerful. And so emulating the 360 will be an extremely daunting task. Probably impossible. So that leaves them with hardware BC, and you know they probably won't do that.

    So no, the prospect of BC on the next Xbox doesn't solve the issue, for me. Besides, what of all my XBLA purchases and so forth? They probably won't be transferable and playable over to the next Xbox. So my 360 needs to work for the next decade or so.

  • MeBrains #55 3 years ago

    @Calgon: you might have mentioned "never mind the rrod", but that does not mean I can not include it in a search. you keep on saying "I think" and "I have the impression" and "from my reading" and the like that the YLOD (whatever the name) is becoming more frequent than the E74, I only tried to back that up with some "objective" information and to me it does not seem like it. Before the Insights search, I did a web search and not so many forums are rife with "PS3 problems".

    But well. You claim something which is not backed up, then tell readers to do their own search, yet, when they do, you flame them for doing so? Much strange. So please, since I am not doing anything good: YOU back up your claim that YLOD (whatever the name) is becoming more frequent.

    Moreover, it is totally absurd thinking that Sony are being "protected" by what I need to refer to as the internet community. Sony has been the targetted for even their ill-use of words from time to time! And yes, imho, it IS totally unacceptable that a large company like MS with billions to spare knowingly put ill-engineered crap like the 360 on the market and getting away with it. I would do the same for any large company. It is just mocking of us, consumers, who buy anything, given the correct marketing, which MS has done pretty well. In fact, it might very well become, not only the biggest scandal in consumer history, but also a text book example for a master in marketing.

    Lastly, you allude to fanboys or something who would never have bought 360. I am not a PS3 fanboy, but would have bought that console over 360. The ill-engineering of 360 and the support the machine and its makers still had from their community (totally incomprehensible to me) only made the choice even easier. Why a PS3 over a 360 even without RROD or E74 or the like, because I liked PS1, I liked PS2, I love to what lengths Sony had gone to engineering (well-engineer!) PS3 and mostly, I love the games I had on PS2 more than I loved these I never played on Xbox1. I'd buy PS3 for the next Ico or Okami, which are the type of game totally absent from Xbox1.

    Since I have kids, I bought Wii first and will buy PS3 eventually - though likely not even this year. I have not the kind of disposible income to buy all three like some here suggest (let alone "back-up machines in case one breaks". That IS the most outrageously foolish comment I read in a long time! We, as consumers, should NOT have to put up with that!)

  • moggsy #56 3 years ago

    @MeBrains

    You carry on writing your multi paragraph rants about a console you don't even own while the rest of us just get on with gaming.

    If you're interested in owning a 360 then just buy one - the reliability isn't really an issue any more. If not then why are you wasting so much energy berating MS? Kind of pointless no?

  • MeBrains #57 3 years ago

    @moggsy: i am not interested in owning a 360. Read my before last paragraph. Like I alluded to: I am not ranting about a console in particular. I am ranting about a piece of consumer electronics which costs premium price (given that you end up paying for a lot of "optional" stuff) and which has been broken all along. This could be about a car, about a TV set, about a cell phone. As a consumer, this should not be accepted - full stop. I rant about the ease with which the company in question gets away with it; frankly, getting ripped off the way we are with that piece of ill-engineered crap, is outrageous. Three and a half years on, and this still is an issue?! For heaven's sake, no?!?!

    BTW: the 360 without this technical issue. The games, the online experience: very very well done Microsoft! This _could_ potentially have been a reason why I _would_ have bought it. PS3 does not come close to the online experience, but is approaching. Then again, PS3 online is free. Not that I care, I buy games mostly to enjoy myself.

    And, you play games. Enjoy them - all cool for me. I do with my spare time what I want - even if that is writing rants about a console I do not own. Yet, to complain about how consumers are ripped off by accepting that sub standard quality, I do not really have to. I am not discussing the games. I am discussing a product on the market.

  • moggsy #58 3 years ago

    @MeBrains

    But it isn't still much of a problem - that's the point. The consoles you buy now and for the last couple of years are fine and have failure rates in line with any item of electronic equipment. I've really no idea why you're getting your knickers in so much of a twist over this.

    I bought a near launch 360, it has been repaired once and has worked without a glitch for several years since. You're getting yourself all upset about a very small problem - no matter what you read in comments threads and forums.

  • MeBrains #59 3 years ago

    @moggsy: I very much do hope so that it still isn't much more of a problem anymore! after three and a half years, it friggen better be! Now, this news story - and my very first comment on it - proves a bit the exact opposite. RROD or E74 is _still_ being discussed.

    Your saying that "the last couple of years failure rates are in line with any item of electronic equipment" is just plain bollocks (putting it rather bluntly). The stories did die down over the last year; absolutely so, but you just would not expect anything else now, would you? Either the problem still was existing, but rehearsing it indefinitally as "news" would be a contradiction to the definition of that word "news", or either it was resolved, but then _this_ news story about E74 would not be posted. RROD or E74 apparently _still_ is very much live to this day. And again: after 3.5y and to me that is just totally unacceptable that MS gets away with it as easy as it does.

    I am not losing sleep over it. I am not upset. Quite on the contrary, I have found the community reaction over the last few years immensly interesting, but mostly shut up because of comments immediately being filled with non-substantiated drab from one side to the other.

  • Calgon #60 3 years ago

    MeBrains:

    First off google insights isnt objective, like my evidence its circumstancial, second... "Im allowed to add whatever I like to an arguement that wasnt there in the first place" doesnt cut it... infact thats what we call a strawman.

    Anyway since you were unable to do the search I suggested(instead going your own way with it which was the problem, your little google insights search told nobody with any amount sense much at all... how you can turn around and tell me Im being absurd and ignoring your facts just baffles me... its laughable actually) ie EGs own forums here you go:

    [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_thread_posts.php?thread_id=141167&start=0
    ]http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_thread_po...[/link]

    Let me make clear that I never said "the internet are protecting Sony", another strawman from you... how weak are you to make up shit arguements I never even gave? I said theres a big difference in the way the two have handled failures so far... Sony are way more experienced in that feild for starters, not just because they are a hardware manufacturer but also because theyve done it with 2 consoles before. Who would waste time complaining on internet forums when the turn around is a couple of days? This isnt proof but it IS the logical answer, you cant deny that its likely that alot of the failures Sony have, have so far gone unheard because theyve been fast to give a replacement to the door on exchange for the failed units... this is way different to how MS have handled it. They are in a position to get away with more too they havent had a RROD disaster to overcome this gen(your problem is trying to tell everyone of something they already know not to be true that the E74 is either the same thing as the RROD or the next RROD)... its funny though now that you mention it, you do seem to be protecting a big corporation like Sony while blasting another in MS, I smell a troll personally.

    Also if you call spending billions on a console CPU that doesnt help the console its in outshine one that was based on existing tech better engineering... then you have your priorities all wrong, Sony arent engineering geniuses at all, never have been. You dont seem to know the difference between manufacturing and engineering also but hey I think everyone can see you are just an ill informed moaner anyway without mentioning that.

    You claim the E74 extension in this news is "proof" that the 360 is "still poorly made crap hardware" other people better informed than you try and inform you where you've gone wrong and you ignore it... and state without any explanation nor proof that "its just bollocks" and in our arguement you tried as best you could to bring the RROD into it again when this is a seperate issue one that wasnt mentioned by myself in the post where this discussiong got started... remember? When you took issue to a comment I made? Whats even more amusing to me is one of us realises from both sides its circumstancial(theres no factual figures for either the E74 or the amount of PS3 failures) and the other doesnt, thats the reason I said "I beleive" rather than "I declare" or "Im certain... Fact" ect based on the amounts Ive come accross for either thats a fair assumption. You dont seem to have a clue how any of this works to me, yet you keep telling everyone "thats bollocks" simply because you dont like it and that you have the "facts" where you dont seem to know what the definition of fact is.

    Tell you what dont buy a 360(I dont really care about whether you like it or not to be honest, buy a PS3 by all means) then but fuck right off pretending you know better than others in a discussion who are obviously more informed than you are, or might find yourself considered an ill informed - ignorrant fool.
    Edited by Calgon at 27/04/09 @ 00:35