Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Review

By Kieron Gillen Published 12 September, 2003

Kieron Gillen's only a master of evil...

Version tested: Xbox

We're going on a little historical diversion in a second, so if you're just here for an opinion take this one and run. "Knights of the Old Republic is the best Star Wars game since X-Wing and/or Tie Fighter, if not ever. Unless something entirely unbelievable descends from the heavens, it's the RPG of the year. If the remaining major players fumble even slightly, it's game of the year. Along with Halo, it's the reason to invite Bill Gates into your house". Got that? Great.

Now shoo! We've got things to talk about.

'Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic' Screenshot 1

Star Wars is enough to drive any fair-minded observer of popular culture insane. I sit in horror, watching otherwise sane-minded individuals wander out of the latest cinematic monstrosity cursing George Lucas' name only to - a handful of months later - go out and buy the DVD anyway "for the extras". You scratch your head at the AintItFatFacedAmericansInTheirBasements somehow claiming the original trilogy were the high points of cinematic history, when only Empire stands up as anything more than campy high adventure and Jedi is covered in a frankly embarrassing Ewokitis. And you grit your teeth as reviewer after reviewer adds twenty percent to a game's score because it’s got Stormtroopers and the real Lightsabre sound effects.

In short: I hate Star Wars.

The irony is before LucasArts lost anyone with a designer's brain in the company, they made some frankly astonishing videogames (It's probably difficult to recall post-Force-Commander et al, but in that early nineties period literally no other developer/publisher put out as many genuine classic games). Because I love videogames, I love the great Star Wars games that came from this period, because they’re great videogames - not because they're from that Galaxy a Long, Long way away.

Loving Star Wars games is nothing new. However, Knights of the Old Republic goes further into entirely unprecedented terrain.

It's made me love Star Wars. I care about the Sith and the Jedi. I care about the fate of Tatooine. I care about the plight of the Sand People. I care about Wookiees who've submitted to their rage. I care about the Mandaloreans, the Twi'lek and the Mon Calamari, and can even tell the difference between their funny shaped bodies (And thanks to KOTOR, I even know what real Star Wars fans are going to nit-pick about in the previous sentence). I care about all those guys.

In short, Knights of the Old Republic takes something that's been merchandised, franchised and branded to death over the last twenty-five years and makes it magical again.

'Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic' Screenshot 2

It feels more like Star Wars than anything else has in living memory, and does so by moving the focus back four thousand years. And - would you believe it - things are very much as they are in the "contemporary" Star Wars universe. This gives the game the strength of familiarity of theme, a mythic arc as you realise you're rooting around in the prehistory of the world and due to distance from the actual films, freedom to create a plot as galaxy-spanning as anything that was committed to celluloid. Joy-bandits wishing to run off with your happiness to the hills to spend on moonshine may comment that the fact so little has changed in the period to be unbelievable. At which point, simply reply "Well - it's Star Wars, idiot. It’s a Science Fantasy, not science fact and reliant on a world where technologies have been existent for long enough to gain a legendary quality. So yay-sucks-boo, big-nose."

That'll send them packing. Man, I hate those joy-bandits.

In terms of experience, essentially Knights of the Old Republic is the first successful Western-style console Role-Playing Game of the modern age. There have been attempts at it (Morrowind sticks out as a recent example) but they've been very much afterthoughts, little more than a PC game with the controls mapped onto a joypad. KOTOR isn't like that at all. KOTOR takes the design beliefs of the Western RPG form and then works out how to present them best for playing whilst sprawled on a sofa in your living room.

Most important thing here: they don't assume console players are dumb and want less than their PC-equipped friends. They give everything that you'd expect in the original Baldur's Gate (not Dark Alliance) games on a big beige box, just do it in a more appropriate form. This means that rather than indirectly controlling your party with a mouse, you directly manipulate your avatar with the rest of your team-mates trotting behind you.

'Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic' Screenshot 3

The westernised RPG model differs from the eastern, as seen in such things as Final Fantasy, in several definitive ways. Mainly, rather than following a relatively linear path, you're given a degree of freedom. Your character may have a destiny, but the details are very much your own to create. For example, depending on how you choose to progress - either being nice or nasty, essentially - you can lean towards the light or dark sides of the force. It actually does pose moral dilemmas. Some evil actions are deeply attractive. Some are just utilitarian. Some acts of good are intrinsically very stupid indeed. All this adds to a game where you feel your actions have a direct effect on your experience and the experience of the world.

While offering more options than the average eastern RPG (i.e. there are some), character generation is kept stripped down, with a choice of sex and three possible classes. However, in terms of specialisation and personalisation, much more takes place in the game proper, though with plentiful options for those who can't be bothered with fiddling with statistics to sidestep the whole process and let the Xbox make the decisions. By its close, your character will be very much a reflection of what you want to be. Oh - and a Jedi.

However, your character is just one in a highly defined cast. Nine team-mates join you as you progress, any two of which can actually be with you "in the field" at any time. These vary wildly, from various strains of Jedi, to alien races to droids, thus offering a wide selection of abilities. However, that's just game mechanics - a hit aimed at the brains. Far more interesting is how these characters are turned into actual characters - an all the more powerful blow aimed at the heart. Beautifully written, carefully defined and memorable, this is a cast who engender sympathy and empathy. While actually talking to the characters to delve their nature is, wisely, optional, only the hardest-souled individual would avoid it. Everyone in the world will fall in love with Assassin/Translator droid HK-47 (In short: Imagine if CP-30 was a misanthrope who wanted to kill everyone), but you'll all find personal favourites. Ordo the towering Mandalore warrior's rambling tales of towering machismo makes him mine, and takes the unique prize of being the only videogame character to make me wish I was gay.

'Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic' Screenshot 4

Away from the main cast, the rest of the universe is populated expertly with even the smallest characters being personalised enough to make exploring it a pleasure. Often minor characters are embroiled in plentiful subplots, which provide mini-adventures away from the main thrust of the plot. Equally, the geezer who is from the same species as Yoda proves something we've always suspected about the Jedi Master of the films. Since this other guy can talk properly, the esteemed ancient trainer in fact actually does suffer a severe speech problem, thus proving the Jedi admirably unprejudiced in their recruitment policies.

Combat is similar to the Baldur's Gate games, in that you give orders to your individual characters who will then carry them out in a pseudo-real time manner. That is, there's all manner of calculations behind the scene, but you don't have to be party to them. Equally, you have the option of pausing time at any point to alter your tactics and try something else. Thermic Detonators are always a good one.

KOTOR is, however, far from perfect. Luckily, its failings are all too forgivable in the context of its epic sweep. There's a handful of genuine bugs. The frame-rate occasionally drops, which is a minor problem since the game isn't dependent on being an action game. Towards the end, when you’re leading a team of Jedi, combat can become somewhat easy on all but the hardest difficulty levels. There's more dialogue than you're probably used to, but it's linked to your decisions rather than thrown at you in endless cut-scenes, is performed by quality voice-actors and is as much as part of its strength as its weakness.

Failings, sure. But you really won't care.

So where does that leave us? Oh yes.

Knights of the Old Republic is the best Star Wars game since X-Wing and/or Tie Fighter, if not ever. Unless something entirely unbelievable descends from the heavens, it’s the RPG of the year. If the remaining major players fumble even slightly, it’s game of the year. Along with Halo, it’s the reason to invite Bill Gates into your house.

Got that? Great. Now get this.

9 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
Picture of Kieron.

About Kieron Gillen

Kieron is one of the founders of the lovely Rock, Paper, Shotgun and nowadays writes comics for Marvel starring characters that even his mum has heard of.

Read more articles from Kieron by visiting the Kieron Gillen archive page.

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Comments (144) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Nemesis #1 9 years ago

    1st!

    \o/

  • renzo #2 9 years ago

    3rd!

    \o/

  • Hicksy #3 9 years ago

    2nd?!

    \o/

  • Machiavel #4 9 years ago

    Phew!

    /mops brow with cellophaned mint copy - unsuccessfully

  • FWB #5 9 years ago

    Nice pic, Kieron.

  • Machiavel #6 9 years ago

    And when did Kieron turn into Bono the Geek?

    :)

  • Dizzy #7 9 years ago

    \o/

    Getting this game asap!

  • renzo #8 9 years ago

    oops... I was trying to compensate for my dire connection :)

  • fatboy996 #9 9 years ago

    "Along with Halo, it's the reason to invite Bill Gates into your house". Got that? Great."

    Does this mean Halo is now 9/10 instead of the daft 8/10. I'll get my coat!

  • mentat #10 9 years ago

    have to find somewhere that i can get this on the way home... :/

  • Nemesis #11 9 years ago

    Anyway, er, 9/10 then. Good old Bioware.

    Free Jaffa Cakes to all Day1 KOTOR purchasers! Oh, that's me. /eats another one

  • statix101 #12 9 years ago

    Am i the ONLY one to find RPG's tedious in the extreme...all that random combat crap...whats the point of it when you dont have control over the outcome of a battle and it's decided by some complex random mathematical calculation of the Pc...Same with RTS genre too much random chance gaming...

  • rygel #13 9 years ago

    Yes... yes you are.

  • CyberClaw #14 9 years ago

    The fun of an RPG, isn't being able to do new stuff, but improving the odds of doing something (many times revealing new and more powerfull stuff).
    Pratical example while in FPS you'll be rewarded by your advance with a new powerfull weapon, in a RPG, you'll get a new skill, which will let you for example do an enraged attack with lesser odds of connecting than a normal attack. Yes, you don't control the odds, but you control the strategic selection of the abilities (both in getting new skills, and using them in battlefields). This translates to a more strategic factor, which you don't seem to favor, given you compare it to RTSs. (might I had, RTSs offer plenty of strategy and few randomness. A plane fighter might be a powerfull weapon, but if it gets in the reach of a Flak cannon, it'll be easly taken down. A Flak cannon which is weak versus normal tanks, which in turn are probably weak versus airplanes. Strategy, see?)

    I like strategy alot :D I also dislike regular FFs (I like the story, bt not the gameplay). FFTA for GBA, is a jewel though :)

  • Blerk #15 9 years ago

    Most important thing here: they don't assume console players are dumb and want less than their PC-equipped friends.

    Finally! Someone realises that owning a console doesn't mean you want a watered-down, mass-market, arcade-action version of the game. Everyone else - take note. Ya buggers.

    If I had an Xbox I would get this. No question. It looks brilloid.

  • Killerbee #16 9 years ago

    If I had an Xbox I would get this. No question. It looks brilloid.

    Me too. When's it due on the PC?

  • mugwump #17 9 years ago

    Wahey Eurogamer - great turn out of reviews today!

    That's my piece done. . .

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife #18 9 years ago

    Blimey, this might be the first game I play on my Xbox since Halo...

  • K.A.G #19 9 years ago

    Whos this Kieron Gillen reviewer bloke? Is it the same guy was or maybe still is Editor of PC Gamer???

  • mouse Verified Graphic designer, Eurogamer Network #20 9 years ago

    He never was the editor as far as I know, but he did/does write for them occasionally, yes.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/03 @ 15:04

  • DaM #21 9 years ago

    After wiping the dust off the XBox, and remembering how to turn the thing on, removed Halo from it and spent a few hours on this last night....till 2 am....

    Plus a card game I can understand, and win! I always shudder at the thoughtof them, after FFVIII, where I used to just throw cards down at random....


    Tried to persuade my wife to spend another night away on business tonight, but she wasn't having it. The minute Gardeners World starts, I can nip off, using my "pish tv " excuse!

  • Blerk #22 9 years ago

    after FFVIII, where I used to just throw cards down at random....

    Tut tut. FF8's card game wasn't hard to understand! In fact, it was better than FF8 itself. ;-)

  • Tricky #23 9 years ago

    Nem - chuck us one of them Jaffa Cakes!

    Actually, wait a bit until I've come back downstairs from quickly trying this in the X Box in our test room.

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #24 9 years ago

    "I have no issue with this review ;)"

    Tosser! :)

  • MaTTy_P #25 9 years ago

    just spent the last 3 hours playing it, and two last night. Compleatly outstanding...allthough i did notice a few jaggies (on xbox...eh?) but gameplay is spot on, voices are great, and i feel as though im actually going to be drawn in to actually care for the characters and what happens to them. Only two other games have ever done this for me, Zelda - Ocarina of time and the 1st metal gear, yes thats right...no blummin magic land dizzy :). oh and maybes ico, allthough i didnt play it loads, my m8 stole it off me.

    top top game...and about bloody time too.

  • Hicksy #26 9 years ago

    everyone has BG in their house

    just very few admit it

  • Nemesis #27 9 years ago

    /pops open another packet of JC's.

    Gonna be a looooong weekend.

  • mingster #28 9 years ago

    How does this game rate if you looked at it as an RPG without the star wars license attached. Compared to and played as a standard RPG is it still any good or is it only the fact you can be a jedi and use a lightsabre that makes this stand out from the crowd.

  • MaTTy_P #29 9 years ago

    tbh, its a strong rpg, with a decent story line, and very strong rpg elemnets, weather it be set in starwars land or not. Lightsaber is just like a magic sword in the likes of nwn, and the force powers are basically magician skills from nwn...fan of rpgs, fan of starwars...either will like it in my opinion. Thankfully, im a fan of both.

  • Tricky #30 9 years ago

    Shame about the lack of widescreen mode, but at least my surround speakers are going to get a workout. Hope the gf doesn't mind watching me play this otherwise I'm gonna have to sneak back to it at some stupid hour of the night!

    /readies catchers mitt for a sterling JC throw from Nem.

  • nalmeida #31 9 years ago

    Question has been made but no answer was given, when is this out in PC? on the subject where is the release dates list of Eurogamer?

  • Merefield #32 9 years ago

    I'm gonna wait for the PC port.

    Cos I'm like that...

  • CyberClaw #33 9 years ago

    Like the reviewer said, he hates StarWars, yet he loves this game, so it's a very good RPG, even if you don't care for Star Wars.

  • Tricky #34 9 years ago

    Last I heard, it was due out on PC in November. Whether it'll appear then though is another matter of course...

  • mouse Verified Graphic designer, Eurogamer Network #35 9 years ago

    a) Fourth quarter, date TBC.
    b) In the previews menu. Yes, we know it's a stupid place for it.

  • otto #36 9 years ago

    :o guest reviewer???

    edit - incidentally, what kind of PC is one going to need to run this?
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/03 @ 15:50

  • mouse Verified Graphic designer, Eurogamer Network #37 9 years ago

    Yep!

  • gamesb*tch #38 9 years ago

    LOL... this is from the same guy who's mag puts Vice City at the top of the 100 PC games of all time... LOL

  • Tiitiz #39 9 years ago

    /shocked

    where is Gamesb*tch?

    hehe... just messing with ya :)

  • Nemesis #40 9 years ago

    GO LONG!

    /throws

  • BremXJones #41 9 years ago

    Long time reader, first time writer. Love the show!

    K.A.G. "Whos this Kieron Gillen reviewer bloke? Is it the same guy was or maybe still"

    Got to Deputy Editor, then quit to become a freelance writer.

    Blerk:
    "Finally! Someone realises that owning a console doesn't mean you want a watered-down, mass-market, arcade-action version of the game. Everyone else - take note. Ya buggers."

    I agree totally. Hopefully Bioware have started something interesting.

    KG

  • otto #42 9 years ago

    *sniff* I want a cube port *sniff*

  • bionutz #43 9 years ago

    Yeah my gf objects so I play on my gba sp golden sun 2 after 12 o'clock (when she's already asleep) - which is a killer the next day.
    By the way, I don't get it: what happens when some character is touched or hit with a light sabre? How did the developers dealt with that: the character should loose a leg or some other organs, and not just health...

  • Nemesis #44 9 years ago

    *sniff* I want a cube port *sniff*

    /passes lubricant, phones authorities.

  • K.A.G #45 9 years ago

    BremXJones

    I thought i recognised your mug shot from all the crazy photochopping your head onto games characters used in the mag. Recognised your nick from the CS antics back in the day too.

    Either that or i secretly stalk you through the wonders of the internet.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/03 @ 16:28

  • binky #46 9 years ago

    Gots to say, Ive never been a big fan of RPGs myself, certainly not the likes of final fantasy, that kinda thing. will this game change my opinion.

    Shenmue is probably the closest i have come, unless zelda counts?

  • Tricky #47 9 years ago

    GO LONG!

    /throws

    Well that was quite long - took at least 40 minutes to get here ;-)

  • DaM #48 9 years ago

    incidentally, what kind of PC is one going to need to run this?
    An average one, stuffed inside a black box, with naff stylings and a big green X.

    As for FVIII cards, maybe I should have persevered! Looking back I am sure I tried a few times....I may have even read the instructions.

    BTW, does anyone know why sometimes on KOTOR you enter an area, there is a wee noise, and your character face bit at the bottom RHS of the screen has a big arrow on it? Couldn't find it in the instructions, don't recall it being mentoned in the game. Both my guys had it on last night (this morning!) when I saved.

  • Errol #49 9 years ago

    character generation is kept stripped down, with a choice of sex and three possible classes

    I choose sex every time.

  • Dabs #50 9 years ago

    "Whos this Kieron Gillen reviewer bloke? Is it the same guy was or maybe still is Editor of PC Gamer???"

    He's only a former JOTY and the best darn thing that ever happened to PCG, his departure from the mag taking with it all the character that PCG once had. Fortunately for the mag, he still contributes now and then.

    Great to see his quality journalism spreading to games websites I frequent! :D (Not that there's owt at all wrong with Mugs, krud, mouse, etc.!)


    [Edit: Yep Kieron, I'm Sam, if you remember me. Allo! :o) ]
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/03 @ 17:23

  • WriterUK #51 9 years ago

    Before reading this review, I wanted to get KOTOR and play it 'at some point'. After reading this review, I want to play KOTOR all this weekend.

    Lucky I can do that, then.

  • otto #52 9 years ago

    I wish BGIE would hurry up and send me that Xbox so I can play this.

    Pull your finger out Bobby.

  • binky #53 9 years ago

    i didnt understand a word of wot disc just said.

    any1 care to answer my question? If i liked shenmue / zelda games, am i likely to enjoy this? ive never been into RPG's per say otherwise.

  • Whizzo #54 9 years ago

    Damn it I am going to have to get this on the Xbox rather than wait for the PC version. And I'm skint. Time to finally getting around to doing some trading at my local indie perhaps...

    Oh and TIE Fighter is the best Star Wars game I have ever played, no matter how good KOTOR turns out to be I can't see it beating that. Then again it's a completely different sort of game so the comparison is a bit silly to start with.

    Finally! Someone realises that owning a console doesn't mean you want a watered-down, mass-market, arcade-action version of the game. Everyone else - take note. Ya buggers.

    Spot on Blerk, just because a game is on a console doesn't mean that you don't want to engage your brain occasionally.

  • BremXJones #55 9 years ago

    "You really really really have to think of planescape torment as the best rpg in the world and that nwn was a move to the bad side of gaming and kotor a sequel to nwn... "

    KOTOR is far closer to Planescape than to Neverwinter. The single player Neverwinter was soulless, based around a fairly basic quest structure with little importance given to things like Character interaction, which are paramount to KOTOR (NWN being a single player adventure, and KOTOR being very much about party interaction. In fact, more party interaction than even Planescape with its relatively limited, if more detailed and infinitely beautiful, cast)

    In fact, KOTOR does the actual emotional side of the characters development considerably better than Baldur's Gate. In other words, its the best take on a narrative-lead game Bioware have ever done.

    Planescape being Black Isle's work, not Bioware. Which makes the "planescape torment as the best rpg in the world and that nwn was a move" a bit nonsensical.

    KG
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/03 @ 19:58

  • Fizzy #56 9 years ago

    Not only has it raised the bar it, it has picked it up and flung it across the heavens.

    Best voice overs, great story, brilliant characters, amazing depth, and incredible blend of linear and nonlinear game play. Finished it twice already going to start my third route through it as a dark Jedi.

    They better be planning a sequel, I dont care if it is a true sequel or a FF type sequel with all new charcters, it just has to have the same quality and lenght!

  • binky #57 9 years ago

    after a "discussion" with the mrs, i shall not be getting this just yet.....


    :|

  • Whizzo #58 9 years ago

    Just buy it and wave your hand in front of your other half when you get home; "This is not the game you're looking for."

  • binky #59 9 years ago

    lmfao

  • mcmonkeyplc #60 9 years ago

    Theres something wrong with this game.. Cant quite put my finger on it.

    Its an RPG, I dont like RPG's. Its a star wars i game... i dont like star wars

    THEN WHY THE fuck do i like it WHY WHY tells me i needs to know!

  • blablabla #61 9 years ago

    I was going to save money and deny myself this one til it got to PC.

    Damn you. Damn you all!

  • otto #62 9 years ago

    KOTOR is the best RPG ever made ON A console, no exaggeration. So why not state the fact?

    The "fact" is that no game based on D&D and a Star Wars license can ever approach the greatness of FF7 or Skies of Arcadia. That's just a "fact", there's no argument possible. "Best RPG ever" my lilywhite arse.

  • Shrui #63 9 years ago

    As for the PC release date Game has December as does Special Reserve.

    Oh, the temptation to buy an Xbox right now!

  • Dizzy #64 9 years ago

    Just got it. Phew... it really is great. Can't stop playing. Best Console RPG ever... and I love the tweaking and low level character management that you can do. Great that Bioware also made sure non hardcore RPG gamers don't have to do that. A RPG dream!

  • Machiavel #65 9 years ago

    Why is it that Bioware games always make me feel I've chosen the wrong character after about an hour of play? My scout is not inspiring. :(

  • Dirtbox #66 9 years ago

    Excuse me if I wait for the PC version.

  • BremXJones #67 9 years ago

    "The "fact" is that no game based on D&D and a Star Wars license can ever approach the greatness of FF7 or Skies of Arcadia. That's just a "fact", there's no argument possible. "Best RPG ever" my lilywhite arse."

    I think that's basic prejudice. Skies/FF are based on a buncha numbers and stats. In other words, a straight D&D rip-off. You're objecting to a label.

    And with Star Wars, I may have agreed with you until I actually played it.

    You might argue that any game where you're lead along with a nose, your only interaction with the story being repeatedly pressing the X button can never be the greatest RPG ever. But I wouldn't, as I realise that the Western and Eastern forms have very different tropes. Direct comparison with FF or Skies or whatever has really very little point. KOTOR is a very different beast.

    KG

  • Lynchman #68 9 years ago

    See Virgin are selling this for €39.99????
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/03 @ 14:18

  • DaM #69 9 years ago

    We didn't read the manual, but just after seeing that appear it told us we needed to level up, and an upwards pointing arrow could be seen as representing that :)
    Cheers Max...didn't check for replies yesterday, figured it out this morning at eh 6 am..I got up early rather than staying up - my wife is pregnant, so I can't really ignore her pleas for an early night because she is exhausted....not like a previous girlfriend who threatened to leave because of all night long Dune 2 sessions...in the bedroom. "Yes Commander"!

  • MaTTy_P #70 9 years ago

    if u liked shenmue...you'l like this. Not sure weather to compare it to zelda, different type of rpg. Plenty of dialog and scripted sequences to keep one entertained. I played for 6 hours yesterday and didnt even realise.

    /me looks at the clock...realises he has 10minutes to get ready and get to work.

  • binky #71 9 years ago

    thank you matty p

  • MaTTy_P #72 9 years ago

    its alright. no1 else takes time to answer questions...;)

    most just post

    1st YAY \o/ etc ;)

  • otto #73 9 years ago

    I think that's basic prejudice. Skies/FF are based on a buncha numbers and stats. In other words, a straight D&D rip-off. You're objecting to a label.

    Of course it's basic prejudice. You didn't spot my big fat tongue in my big fat cheek. You probably also didn't spot the post at which I was poking a bit of fun. Let me quote again: "KOTOR is the best RPG ever made ON A console, no exaggeration. So why not state the fact?"

    There are no "facts" here, de gustibus non est disputandum. As it happens, I'm no Star Wars fan but I'm salivating at the sound of this game, can't wait for the PC version (and crossing fingers the system requirements won't be too demanding).

  • otto #74 9 years ago

    If you think I'M being "biased" making statments like KOTOR is the best RPG on a console, then YOU'RE just a moron with really bad tastes in games, aka an elitist European apologist prick, and I think us non-elitist European apologist pricks know who I'm talking about.

    ROFL!!

    Skies of Arcadia is the best console RPG because it is. There. An argument you can understand.

  • JabbaDaHut #75 9 years ago

    Superb game that should be bought by anyone with a Xbox!

    Me loves Bioware - those lovelies have given me so many hours of great fun....Might have to start an appreciation campaign...

  • ObnoxiousAmerican #76 9 years ago

    The eastern games have no sense of humor, which really bugs me. KOTOR has parts that actually made me laugh out loud, something I haven't done since that N64 game Conker's Bad Fur Day. That assassin droid really is hilarious, no joke.

  • BremXJones #77 9 years ago

    "You didn't spot my big fat tongue in my big fat cheek."

    I was hoping it was, but not really expecting it. This is, after all, the Internet. I'd have expected the examples you chose to be a little more ludicrous if you were mocking the whole fact/opinion thing.

    But yes. Sorry for tarring you with the same general brush.

    "de gustibus non est disputandum"

    Man, I love this stuff.

    KG

  • otto #78 9 years ago

    Yeah, all intended in good humour.

    No seriously, KOTOR sounds great, I love both eastern & western RPGs and there's a huge lack of the latter on consoles. I just wish there were more for my console of choice (more western *and* eastern actually).

    I do get a bit irritated though at the followers of a certain western console who feel obliged to proclaim any half decent game that comes out for it as the best thing ever. Be happy chaps, it's a good game, you don't have to proselytise the whole time.

    (oh and I should add that "console of choice" doesn't mean that I've only got the one console on religious grounds, it means that I've only got the one console on practical/financial grounds.)
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/03 @ 21:30

  • otto #79 9 years ago

    The eastern games have no sense of humor, which really bugs me. KOTOR has parts that actually made me laugh out loud

    That's an interesting line to take, because I'd have thought the opposite was generally true. I've not played KOTOR (yet) though I'm planning to, so I can't say whether it's funny or not. Other Bioware RPGs have been very short on the humour though. Apart from that nutter with the hamster - Minsc wasn't it? Usually their greatest failing is the awful turgid cod-fantasy setting with no light relief whatsoever. Given the Star Wars setting for KOTOR, I'm not expecting any departure from that tradition. Star Wars being legendary for having no sense of humour. I mean, Jar-Jar Binks ffs!!

    By contrast, Japanese RPGs are a bundle of laughs. Which is what makes them so appealing to a European audience I think (yeah I know, I'm generalising, so sue me). Skies in particular had me laughing on several occasions. All in all they have a much lighter feel, and far more developed scripts. The flip side is greater linearity, less character development.

    At the end of the day, though, they're really two different genres. Calling them both RPGs is a bit artificial, and comparing them is an exercise in pointlessness.
    Edited by 2 at 13/09/03 @ 21:40

  • Lutz #80 9 years ago

    Quote from Otto: The "fact" is that no game based on D&D and a Star Wars license can ever approach the greatness of FF7 or Skies of Arcadia. That's just a "fact", there's no argument possible. "Best RPG ever" my lilywhite arse.

    Nah... FF7 was good, SOA is good, but neither is the best RPG on a console, not by a long shot. Each one has too many flaws. Suikoden 2, most of the Shining games and Phantasy Star 4 all out weigh them.
    IMHO anyway Otto. :)

  • Machiavel #81 9 years ago

    Well, I'm a tiny way in and very ambivalent. Having not played NWN, it's a little hard getting used to a version of the great BG gameplay in something that looks like a third person actioneer with frame rate issues ;)

    Mind you, entering the under world/zone/level and getting my arse kicked repeatedly brought up some deja vu - very reminiscent of a section of "Planescape Torment" that. Anybody care to vouch for when the game really kicks off and stops training you? After all, that didn't seem to happen in FFX for about 12 hours...

  • CerealKey #82 9 years ago

    I think Eastern RPGS tend to be a bit more smack you in the mouth cartoon funny.

    Whereas western ones tend to be a bit more subtle in the humour and rely on the player at bit more to notice stuff - like the portraits of the D&D cartoon characters in BG2 (might be BG1)

  • mcmonkeyplc #83 9 years ago

    Im goimg to fuck that sith govenor over one day, really i am!

  • otto #84 9 years ago

    Whereas western ones tend to be a bit more subtle in the humour and rely on the player at bit more to notice stuff - like the portraits of the D&D cartoon characters in BG2 (might be BG1)

    Er yeah, my unsophisticated sense of humour must have missed out on those subtle comedic gems. ;p

    Oh and Lutz, I should have added a smiley to that comment of mine further up. Don't take me too seriously, I'm not actually saying FF7 and Skies of Arcadia are the best console RPGs ever, I'm saying shouldn't call things "facts" when they're nothing but subjective opinions.

  • binky #85 9 years ago

    LOL @ otto getting stuck into a thread heavlily guarded by xboxen fans ;)

    i badly want to play this game, more so now that i know u want it mate !! :D hahahaha....

  • Dirtbox #86 9 years ago

    lol

  • Groggen #87 9 years ago

    This truly is a fine game. I bought it late friday evening, tried it for a couple of hours, went to bed and woke up at 4am(!!) saturday morning and just had to go play! Didn't stop for the whole day. There's just something magic about Bioware games.

  • Wretched Chin #88 9 years ago

    WOPR : "Remember, fact times importance equals news. "

    You is the man!

  • Lutz #89 9 years ago

    Sorry, Otto. :)
    Was a bit tired when I wrote that, probably read it the wrong way... :)

  • Pirotic #90 9 years ago

    something which surprised me about KotoR is that Bioware opted to write most of the music from scratch, i'm about 80% thru and have not heard "imperial march" once, nore the cantina song.

    i wonder why :p

  • Wretched Chin #91 9 years ago

    The music is incedental and mostly background, but if you really listen to it it's dead good. Jeremey Soule scored the game; he's the bloke behind the Morrowind music, my favourite game music of all time pretty much. If you're interested, his website is www.jeremysoule.com

  • mcmonkeyplc #92 9 years ago

    I suk with a lightsaber :(

  • binky #93 9 years ago

    rah! the mrs bought me the game, aint she a sweet heart. just been playing for 2 and ahlaf hours with out realising it. Liking it so far. seems like a really good story already.

    the frame rate really is quite poor tho, dontchya think?

  • Lazarii #94 9 years ago

    I guess I'm the only one bothered somewhat by the fact that this is set 4000 years before Episode 1, yet doesn't even look like it is set a year before. BioWare are forever in my heart for giving me the chance to run around with so many other Jedi but is 4000 years not a bit too much? 400 years may have been better.

    Also, my mate just said to me "I'm currently on Dantooine finding out about a characters missing kid". Oh how I love this game! I'm also on Dantooine find out about a characters missing brother!

  • Pirotic #95 9 years ago

    well, despite only getting it a few days ago im right near the end..

    .. well, just after THAT plot-twist, i wont ruin it for you but looking back at the stuff people said towards the start, it makes sense now.

  • Tiger_Walts #96 9 years ago

    I read the first line of this review and recognised it instantly as Mr. Gillens PC Gamer preview, I didn't have to read the rest. Nethertheless, I enjoy his writing style and a freelance hack needs to make a living, also how can you doubt a man who has been proclaimed by some as the best reviewer ever. Or should that be...

    Best.Reviewer.Ever.?


    A quick check on <a target="_blank" href="http://www.gamerankings. com">Game Rankings</a> puts KotOR at an average review score of 94.1%. So we already knew that this is a quality title, I still have not yet got my copy yet, lazy b'tard that I am, I failed to leave the house over the weekend. A long bash at Eternal Darkness to blame, I am trying to get all those unfinished games out of the way before I start on KotOR.

    PS Anyone know if those bugs were ironed out?

  • Lazarii #97 9 years ago

    >>

    I've encountered a few. A jitter in FMV's sometimes, NPC's mindlessly banging into one another in the background as a cut scene happens, NPC's walking into the main character as he talks in a cutscene and skittering in all manner of directions to get away, some path finding problems with other characters getting stuck as you run about, and a few more but nothing extreme.

  • Potter #98 9 years ago

    this is a very very good game. FF8 use to be my best rpg but not anymore. the few bugs i have come across are very minor and in no way hurt the game play (fps, bumping characters, stutters)

  • Tiger_Walts #99 9 years ago

    I can live with those NPC bugs, as long as the game doesn't freeze or crash I am happy.

    /glares at Xbox copy of Time Splitters 2

  • Urabus #100 9 years ago

    Chaps

    Ive been a fan of computer games for some 25 years or more and have to say that IMHO FF7 has been 'one' of the highlights.

  • brutal #101 9 years ago

    Got it, played it, loving it :D

    Without even realising it, i managed a 17 hour marathon till 7 in the morning... when daylight hits - you know its time to stop ;)

    A seriously great game. Some bugs (continuity, routing of NPC's framerate) but none of which are in detriment to the gameplay.

    However, i did have the game crash after 10 hours of solid play - havent seen this again and i'm assuming it was a one-off.

  • Hicksy #102 9 years ago

    AMAZING game - loving it!

    oh and *raises hand* :)

  • MaTTy_P #103 9 years ago

    brutal..could b your xbox goin 'GO TO BED AND LEAVE ME ALONE'
    Edited by 1 at 15/09/03 @ 11:22

  • jaa #104 9 years ago

    Thread with more than 100 posts still on topic...

    /me sighs...

  • bleeptest #105 9 years ago

    Okay, this is probably a really stupid question, but is there absolutely zero chance of a PS2 version?

  • Blerk #106 9 years ago

    Yes, zero. With a capital ZERO. :-)

  • brutal #107 9 years ago

    lol matty - that kind of reminds me of monkey island telling you to go to bed after you finished it

  • Tiger_Walts #108 9 years ago

    Another Monkey Island quote,

    "Never pay $20 for a computer game."

    Or should I really post that in the SWoWWII review comments? :o

  • lennon #109 9 years ago

    Now this is what a console rpg should be like. No random battles boring cut scenes. Awesome. Oh and Dark Chronicle on the ps2 is pretty damn good as well. Not quite sure where i am going to get the 150 hours needed to complete both games but I will do it or die trying.

  • Aaarrrgh #110 9 years ago

    PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT:

    KOTOR is freaking awesome.

  • grunt121 #111 9 years ago

    I want KOTOR now bloody swapgame.com dispatched on Thursday and still not turned up. Maybe I can try and improvise using my collection of figures and some dice I found in monopoly.

    Yay finally recieved it (16/09/03) and am making up for lost time, this game rocks and I've never palyed an RGP before
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/03 @ 00:19

  • blablabla #112 9 years ago

    Zhentarim wrote
    14-Sep-03 22:04:13 No bugs yet after about 16 hours of play. Well, maybe one small AI bug where one of my Jedi kept trying to force choke a corpse...

    Also none of the infamous corrupt savegames. (Which will fill your HD up FAST, 1600 blocks a piece, x45 already here)

    Ive racked up around 25 hours,and the bugs are pretty evident. The most annoying to me is the crappy pathfinding. Eg, you walk into an alcove to use a terminal. Your 2 other guys then walk up behind you, breathing down your neck. You turn around, try to leave.......and they just stand there and stare at you. Obviously easily fixed but it annoys the hell out of me when it happens over and over again. On top of that Ive had 2 corrupt savegames (both times the autosave) and 4 complete hangs/crashes. Luckilly, i save constantly so Ive only lost maybe an hour or two of gameplay.

    It's a fantastic game but i wish they'd fixed the known bugs for the Uk release.

    Edit: for lack of vbull
    Edited by 2 at 15/09/03 @ 19:33

  • crizza_uk #113 9 years ago

    can you turn off the autosave function off?,i don't like the idea of an autosave in an RPG.

  • Pirotic #114 9 years ago

    Autosave is a setting, you can turn it off.

    However - its a cool feature, you get unlimited save slots and the top most slot is only used by the "Autosave" function, its not like it overwrites your saves or anything.

  • crizza_uk #115 9 years ago

    so it's like a quicksave?

  • DaM #116 9 years ago

    It does the autosave when you move into another area, or at important game points, I think it said at one point. You can save yourself whenever you want. Like just before that Sith Base commander guy keeps killing me....

  • crizza_uk #117 9 years ago

    mmm
    Edited by 1 at 16/09/03 @ 02:21

  • crizza_uk #118 9 years ago

    when you save yourself do you start up EXACTLY where you were or when you last entered the area(mgs style)?

  • blablabla #119 9 years ago

    Yup, you start where you left off.

  • crizza_uk #120 9 years ago

    sweet,i'm gonna be turning the autosave off then

  • Nemesis #121 9 years ago

    *finally* got to play this last night. Bloody cool or what. Only a few hours into it so far, but loving it. Yay for KOTOR

    o
    |/=------
    \

    Zmmmmmmmmmmm. /swish

  • pjmaybe #122 9 years ago

    Is it just me or do enemies respawn?

    Peej

  • crizza_uk #123 9 years ago

    "best gaming experience I've had since Halo"


    if you mean on XBOX,it's the only gaming experience since halo!





    BAM!

  • Lutz #124 9 years ago

    I'm only 3 hours into this, but I'm downgrading it from "awesome" to "very, very good"

    The battles are a bit to glitchy, and not very well thought out. My second guy has shot at guys through my main guys head. And a lot of the time two swordsmen will be stood facing each other doing nothing.

  • lost_soul #125 9 years ago

    I agree with you about the battles.

    One of the most annoying things I've witnessed is seeing a member of my party, armed with a pistol or blaster, run right next to a bad guy and start shooting, the bad guy will then whip out a sword and chop my man to pieces.

  • Tiger_Walts #126 9 years ago

    No matter what problems a game has, anything that has me playing till 1:30 in the morning, only 4 1/2 hours befor my alarm goes off must be doing something right.

  • Lutz #127 9 years ago

    Another JFC clone? Is it you again Peej?

  • Tiger_Walts #128 9 years ago

    Just reached THE TWIST, playing on the light side (barely... a Jedi's gotta eat, mm'kay).

    Jeez, who'da thunk it?

  • pjmaybe #129 9 years ago

    Tis not I, but then nor was JFC. I just said it was so people would shut up about it!

    Peej

  • Singularity #130 9 years ago

    **MINOR SPOILER WARNING**

    D'oh! 20 hours in and hit my first real bug. Korriban. Final trial. Can't use the ice grenade or activate the computer. Dang. And. Blast.

  • pjmaybe #131 9 years ago

    Now I've stopped picking at the gameplay I'll pick at the storyline.

    "Set 2000 years before star wars"

    Er, are you sure you don't mean 200? I mean if it's 2000 years then not a hell of a lot's happened, tech wise has it...!

    Peej

  • Tiger_Walts #132 9 years ago

    I thought it was 4000 years?

    It is not uncommon for civilisations to become less technologically advanced for some reason or other, just look at ancient Britain when the Romans left.

    If anything the KotOR era is more technologically advanced than the Star Wars films, I see no personal stealth or shield technology in the films at all.

    On another note, HK-47 has to be my favourite character, nothing to do with battle skills, his back story and demeanor is hilarious.

  • Singularity #133 9 years ago

    Yep, it's 4000 years. And in A New Hope, Obi-Wan talks about the Republic being a more advanced and civilised age. So there you go.

  • otto #134 9 years ago

    People. This is Star Wars. Not actual history. You know Star Wars? Star Wars makes Button Moon look like old-skool hard science-fiction. The moment anyone tries to apply real-world criteria to anything in Star Wars the whole thing falls apart. It could be four years or four gazillion years, doesn't make the slightest difference.

  • pjmaybe #135 9 years ago

    "People. This is Star Wars. Not actual history. You know Star Wars? Star Wars makes Button Moon look like old-skool hard science-fiction. The moment anyone tries to apply real-world criteria to anything in Star Wars the whole thing falls apart. It could be four years or four gazillion years, doesn't make the slightest difference. "

    Yes thank you Poindexter....the point is there's a storyline there, and even though it's set in a fictional universe those jedi are some lazy-assed bastards if they haven't done ANYTHING to their most basic weapon (the lightsaber) in 4000 years....!

    Peej

  • otto #136 9 years ago

    No, really. There are *sooooo* many holes you can pick in the SW universe before you start going down that road.

  • pjmaybe #137 9 years ago

    (sigh)

    I know...I know...no really I know.

    Good game though. Well, in a way...

    Peej

  • Singularity #138 9 years ago

    those jedi are some lazy-assed bastards if they haven't done ANYTHING to their most basic weapon (the lightsaber) in 4000 years....!

    But that'd be trying to improve on perfection. Like trying to make Kylie more pert.

  • pjmaybe #139 9 years ago

    Er, OK.


    Peej

  • CerealKey #140 8 years ago

    Ok got to the final fight. And damn if I haven't got enough med-packs to last me. I've thrown the controller down in disgust.

    Yet another game that doesn't want to be finished.


    /Stores on shelf next to Metroid Prime/

  • tiddles #141 8 years ago

    I'd say...

    Definitely get it if you're into Star Wars or Baldur's Gate-style western RPGs. Otherwise, might be worth borrowing or renting* first to see, as it's not quite the be-all and end-all of gaming some might claim.

    You'll also need about 40+ hours to play it...

    *EDIT: Sorry, didn't read the post properly... I guess you'll have to find someone else who's got it if you want to find out whether it's worth buying a 'box for.
    Edited by 1 at 07/01/04 @ 17:48

  • The Old Bill #142 7 years ago

    Why not buy it for the PC?

  • fluff_the_tiger #143 5 years ago

    Yes! 2007!

  • XENgamer #144 4 years ago

    Go Go Mighty Morphin' 2008!!