Introversion disrupts P2P

By Games Industry.biz Published 25 August, 2006

Says it's the best way.

In a refreshing take on the battle against software piracy, developer Introversion has revealed that it 'causes mayhem' on peer-to-peer networks to exasperate pirates and downloaders who plan to play illegal copies of its games.

Speaking exclusively to GamesIndustry.biz in an interview to be published next week, the developer talks candidly about its methods of disrupting piracy by subverting and polluting peer-to-peer networks.

"You can't stop peer-to-peer file sharing, so the best route to combat it is to subvert it," revealed Tom Arundel, sales and marketing director at Introversion.

"We will release a version of our game that looks like it's been hacked at the same time as a pirated version gets out," he said.

"Our version looks like the real game, but is in fact a demo. After the third time of downloading the demo, the P2P user will be very, very frustrated, and will do one of two things - give up or buy the game from us. We subverted the Bit Torrent network for Darwinia very successfully this way," he revealed.

Arundel believes that trying to stop piracy and peer-to-peer sharing is a failed fight. "Rather than attack the cause, it's better to attack the symptoms," he said.

"The key is to make it difficult enough or risky enough for those who would pay, to buy a legitimate copy."

Arundel is also aware that agitating the illegal user does no harm in terms of marketing, stating, "You can cause mayhem on P2P networks. It's quite fun really and it gets a lot of people talking about your products also."

Introversion's new title, DEFCON, is due for release next month. GamesIndustry.biz will be publishing the full interview with Arundel early next week.

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Comments (80) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Hunam85 #1 6 years ago

    Heh. Ive also noticed if a company sends a nice polite email to the torrent site asking them to remove the torrents instead of threatening them, it also works in most cases.

  • El_MUERkO #2 6 years ago

    excellent but they should have kept their traps shut, they've just waved a red rag in front of a bull ... that has been genetically engineered to see colours and really dislikes red

  • chupachups #3 6 years ago

    It's terrible this, isn't it? A game publisher protecting its copyright by sabotaging the work of good honest pirates. It ought to be banned, just like piracy.


    "Heh. Ive also noticed if a company sends a nice polite email to the torrent site asking them to remove the torrents instead of threatening them, it also works in most cases."

    They didn't threaten them at all, they just uploaded demos and pretended they were the full game.

    If the torrent site was interested in keeping the company happy, they wouldn't carry games that are currently in the shops. And it's pretty unlikely they could remove it from most torrent sites with just polite emails, or would you like to give it a try?
    Edited by 1 at 25/08/06 @ 11:18

  • Gulag #4 6 years ago

    Seems like fair game to me. The company has a right to protect it's product and by extension the jobs of it's employees. It's putting out a perfectly working demo of the game and inviting you to shell over the clams if your really like it.

    Introvision seem to understand that the internet is not just a 'series of tubes' and that Torrent sites don't actually 'handle' any of the software, cracked, illegal, or otherwise. This is a point that seems to have slipped by most of the bigger players in the music, film and software industries. Instead they're fighting the battle in a logical and pro-active manner, instead of just sending it down to the Legal Dept.

    It's important to realise that this move doesn't actually target Torrent sites of pirates. It's much cleverer. All you have to do is convince Joe Downloader that he's getting the 'leet haxored warez'. I'd expect to see a lot more of this in the future. It's Darwinian thinking at it's best.

    (I know, I'll get my coat.)

  • smelly #5 6 years ago

    Come on, anyone who pirates a game this cheap is scum anyhows.

    They cant use the "games are too expensive" line when they're as cheap as this!

  • jellyhead #6 6 years ago

    All it will mean is that people will download multiple copies of the game from different sources. Film and music companies have been doing this for years releasing loops etc. Hasn't stemmed piracy as far as i can tell.
    / Isn't online, doesn't care.

  • haowan #7 6 years ago

    Regarding the cause and symptoms: by releasing the game at $15 or whatever ridiculously low price it is going to be, they ARE attacking the cause. Attacking the symptoms is just a bonus.

    I don't know how effective it can relaly be though as torrent sites have comments on torrents these days, so the torrents will quickly die.

  • Xerx3s #8 6 years ago

    After the third time of downloading the demo, the P2P user will be very, very frustrated, and will do one of two things - give up or buy the game from us.

  • haowan #9 6 years ago

    Yeah. If it worked with Darwinia I guess it must be a sound plan.

  • smelly #10 6 years ago

    If I were them, i'd release a fake version onto bit torrent which when run completely trashes your harddisk

  • haowan #11 6 years ago

    Good thing you're not in charge then. Do you like prison? You dropped the soap there by the way. Yeah. Just down there.

  • Pirotic #12 6 years ago

    Better than doing nothing I suppose, but why don't they just write a bittorrent client which corrupts other peoples downloads by creating bad packets but ones which match the CRC of the real data, therefore corrupting the download of anybody who got a packet from you (which could be pretty much everybody downloading it).

  • mingster #13 6 years ago

    i too know 'someone' ahem.. that got caught out buy the darwinia torrent download.

    Let you play till level 3 then said you have used a 'torrented' version please buy the full version. Looked like it was a Deviance release.

    Bloody good idea i thought.

  • marc_si #14 6 years ago

    We've done this with our games for years (basically making demo's which look like the full game until their 'end date' cuts in along with a polite message asking them to please not pirate our games :D) - P2P definitely affects game sales and anything a company do to help control it has to be done imho.

    "Not really the best way to do that :), telling the pirates that you are going to do it. "

    It actually makes a fair bit of sense (which is why we've never hidden the fact we do it) - simply put a small percentage of people will read about their preventive measures and purchase the game instead of ever looking for it on P2P ...

  • smelly #15 6 years ago

    Good thing you're not in charge then. Do you like prison?

    Ah, but for someone to report me to the police, they'd first have to admit to downloading an illegal game and stealing from me.

    I'd do a counter suit.

  • mingster #16 6 years ago

    I think you'll find the uploading of a program that currupts your hard drive is the illegal thing.

    Downloading it is not something you'd be prosecuted over.

  • smelly #17 6 years ago

    "I think you'll find the uploading of a program that currupts your hard drive is the illegal thing."


    So is downloading an illegal copy of a game.

    Besides, i wouldnt be forcing people to download/share my harddrive wrecker. Its not my fault they're downloading an illegal copy which wipes their harddisk after level 3.

  • Sko #18 6 years ago

    "Besides, i wouldnt be forcing people to download/share my harddrive wrecker. Its not my fault they're downloading an illegal copy which wipes their harddisk after level 3."

    I wonder if that works for virus/trojan creators too? "It's not my fault they're downloading a program that destroys their machine. I only uploaded it to a public site and mis-represented it's purpose."

  • mingster #19 6 years ago

    he's insane just ignore him...

    He always manages to get things wrong.

  • skillian #20 6 years ago

    @haowan:

    Agreed, adjusting pricing as they are doing is an effective way to fight piracy - releasing fakes isn't really a very productive way for Introversion to get its point across, nor is it likely to affect many people when there are "real" warez versions of its games out.

  • smelly #21 6 years ago

    Sigh, yer such an affenschwanz!

    But would it not serve them right for downloading it? And as i said, if they went to the cops they could get done themselves for admitting to downloading an illegal game.

    Teach em a lesson as far as im concerned.. they'd think twice about downloading a pirated game again as opposed to paying seven quid for it.

  • smelly #22 6 years ago

    "Agreed, adjusting pricing as they are doing is an effective way to fight piracy"


    You could sell a game for 2 quid a copy, and the pirate scum will STILL pirate it and claim it's because it was too expensive to buy.

  • Skeletor #23 6 years ago

    Well, you know...I really would like to buy it, but I'm just not into this whole Steam-is-watching-you-shit. Besides, I'm pretty sure that many pirates will accept this challenge...

  • skillian #24 6 years ago

    You could sell a game for 2 quid a copy, and the pirate scum will STILL pirate it and claim it's because it was too expensive to buy.

    Some people would sure, but others would pay.

    I doubt those pirating it would think the price is unjust - they'd just rather have it free.

  • Sko #25 6 years ago

    "Teach em a lesson as far as im concerned.. they'd think twice about downloading a pirated game again as opposed to paying seven quid for it. "

    Apart from the whole malicious intent thing, you're still living in the fantasy land where programmers are infallible and copy protection only catches out the pirates. You'd soon be sued by a guy who owns a store bought version with a trashed machine thanks to your methods.

  • Hunam85 #26 6 years ago

    @chupachups

    you didnt quite get what i meant with that, i was just also saying that another way is to just politlely ask them, i wasnt saying introvision threatened them at all :p

    But i do recall a company just sending a polite email to a torrent site and the site actully banned that game from their site.

  • ruckus #27 6 years ago

    smelly: I'd just like to point out it's been some time and...
    boss: no, I'm sorry smelly, my beloved of employees but
    the market outlook is still grim. We're in, well a recession here
    by all accounts - brought on by all those...
    smelly: PIRATE SCUM!!! NNNNnnnoooo!!!
    boss: yah, I'm afraid so - those nasty peer2queer no gooders have once again
    been the sole reason we can't give you your much deserved pay rise. ...
    we're awfully sorry old chap...
    smelly: O Mario, where art thou?

    A new torrentwarezbusting hero emerges:
    SMELLYMAN!

    Smellyman, Smellyman,
    Does whatever an employee can
    Finds a torrent, any size,
    Catches scum whilst their hard drive dies
    Look Out!
    Here comes the Smellyman.

  • mingster #28 6 years ago

    heheh.. quite amuzing that.

    and smelly : affenschwanz! The only translation i get is ring tail. what does it mean?

  • smelly #29 6 years ago

    Yip.. Itd certainly teach pirates a lesson if downloaded games came with "free" features such as wiping yer harddisk.

    Hmmm.. Especially if as a developer it wasnt your fault.

    Lets say you had a "bug" which wiped peoples harddisk after level 5. But someone leaked the unfinished game onto the bit torent before said bug was fixed..

    hehe.. that'll teach the pirates! :-)

  • skillian #30 6 years ago

    YAY! for destroying people's private property in revenge attacks!

  • jellyhead #31 6 years ago

    Cool, we should start killing burglars & people who drive while talking on their mobile phone, they're breaking the law too!

  • T4RG4 #32 6 years ago

    Only problem is - How will the person playing the non-legit copy know for sure that it was Introversions pirate killing version that screwed their PC? And if the person did realise it had something to do with Introversions game... would they then be inclined to purchase a copy of the REAL deal? They'd probably think it would crap on their PC again.

    Flawed.

  • smelly #33 6 years ago

    YAY! for destroying people's private property in revenge attacks!

    Well they'll soon learn to not steal then - and in the future actually BUY the game wouldnt it?


    Cool, we should start killing burglars & people who drive while talking on their mobile phone, they're breaking the law too!

    Well, maybe just give them a severe beating - yes. It'll soon stop them!


  • bauhaus #34 6 years ago

    While we are deleting data of "pirates" can I set bear traps for the kiddies that insist on pissing in my garden after the pub?!?

    It certainly teaches an errant pisser a lesson, once they have had to gnaw their own leg off extricating themselves from a bear trap.

  • Ranger101 #35 6 years ago

    ""I think you'll find the uploading of a program that currupts your hard drive is the illegal thing."


    So is downloading an illegal copy of a game.

    Besides, i wouldnt be forcing people to download/share my harddrive wrecker. Its not my fault they're downloading an illegal copy which wipes their harddisk after level 3. "


    [SUPER PEDANTIC MODE]
    Technically, downloading a full game is copyright infringment, and is not equal though may be equivlent to causing harm on someone elses computer
    [/SUPER PEDANTIC MODE]

    Though I agree with Smelly. But it would be more devious not to format the hard disk, but to delete all .avi's, .mp3s and .docs - to right royally fuck someone over in a short space of time, without the user being aware.

  • skillian #36 6 years ago

    Luckily there are laws that protect us from people like smelly and Ranger101 - otherwise our courts would be like those in Saudi Arabia.

  • Skeletor #37 6 years ago

    @dobbie:
    Ooops, didn't know. Thanks for the hint. 10 quid sounds nice :-)

    @smelly:
    Yeah right. How about blowing people's cars up instead of giving them a parking ticket. It surely would teach them a lesson. Where you living, mate? Some kind of Judge Dredd future world?

  • smelly #38 6 years ago

    @Skeletor

    Your missing my point. If someone parks illegally - they get a parking ticket and fine (i.e. a punishment).

    If someone downaloads and shares a pirated game - they get away with it.


    All Im suggesting is that people who pirate games are punished in a way which actually "hurts" them (such as being charged a fine.. or having all their porn deleted).

    Im not suggesting physical harm!

    Hmmm okay.. hows this for an idea.

    If you park illegally, you get clamped and they refuse to release your car (in effect stealing it from you) until you pay them a fine.

    If you steal software, you have yer harddisk wiped, UNTIL you pay a fine, at which point all your data is returned unhurt

    That better for everyone?

    btw : "smelly: O Mario, where art thou? "

    have you lot not learned by now that if i'm a fanboy of any machine it's more likely to be the PC? (as that's what i play the most games on?)
    Edited by 1 at 25/08/06 @ 16:18

  • Furbs #39 6 years ago

    How is this going to work? Do they not realise that most torrent sites have a comments section? So you'll get a "fake" or "this one is working" post from more than a few people, not to mention that most clients will IP block any seeders that are putting out bad data.

    People will grab the legit version of usenet then use that to seed.

  • smelly #40 6 years ago

    not to mention that most clients will IP block any seeders that are putting out bad data.


    Hmm.. but they wont block someone who's seeding pirated software?

  • mingster #41 6 years ago

    They also rerelease the fake versions under multiple Cracking group names to look like someone else has rereleased it. Then add their own comments to say its a good version.

    Thats what they did with darwinia

    And no smelly they dont block pirate versions obviously

  • Furbs #42 6 years ago

    And your torrent client would know it was pirated data because...?

  • mingster #43 6 years ago

    Smellys would as he lives in some sort of alternative universe where nothing works or acts as you would expect.

  • smelly #44 6 years ago

    >And your torrent client would know it was pirated data because...?

    For the same reason they knew it wasnt the full game and so pulled.

    >Smellys would as he lives in some sort of alternative universe where nothing works or acts as you would expect.

    It comes from talking to fanboys on forums too much where you EXPECT to have a discussion on a topic, but then THE EXACT OPPOSITE happens they automatically presume your slagging off the machine you own because you happen to mention it, and then it all goes tits :-)

  • Quine #45 6 years ago

    Was it the original Operation Flashpoint that boasted some evil system that made suspected pirate copies work, but made all the weapons far less accurate and the like?

    /suspects urban legend
    Edited by 1 at 25/08/06 @ 17:16

  • jellyhead #46 6 years ago

    Nah, it had a system called FADE or something. If it thought it was a pirate copy it got harder and harder as it ramped up the difficulty level.

  • Quine #47 6 years ago

    Sadly I bought my copy so I didn't have that excuse for the later missions. :(

  • marc_si #48 6 years ago

    "Only problem is - How will the person playing the non-legit copy know for sure that it was Introversions pirate killing version that screwed their PC? And if the person did realise it had something to do with Introversions game... would they then be inclined to purchase a copy of the REAL deal? They'd probably think it would crap on their PC again. "

    They don't 'screw with their PC' - the P2P version is a disguided demo which from the sounds of things will just 'stop' at some stage (like more demos, either timelimited or whatever) and ask the pirate nicely to purchase the game.

  • Furbs #49 6 years ago

    I thought FADE turnt out to be BS?

  • smelly #50 6 years ago

    made suspected pirate copies work, but made all the weapons far less accurate and the like?




    The problem with THAT idea is that pirates are the first to post on message boards slagging a game off if it doesnt work properly.

    I remember LOTS of people complaining about Black and White being buggy. But a vast majority of the people moaning about the bugs on the forums were moaning about features not in the final game!!!

    And not to mention the support calls the games company is going to get! They're gonna have to pay for someone to provide support for games which people have pirated, moaning about something which isnt in a "bought" copy of said game.

  • captain-future #51 6 years ago

    Weird Al Yankovic's Don't Download This Song - Download
    [link url=http://music.d ownload.com/weirdalyankovic/3600-10607_32-100948958.html?tag =MDL_listing_song_artist
    ]http://mu sic.download.com/weirdalyankovi...[/link]

    says it all. *LOL*

  • Subquest #52 6 years ago

    Since Play started selling at 17.99 for the latest releases I haven't felt the need to look for cracks, and I'm far more likely to make impulse buys (usually straight after a good EG review). I've bought around 10 games this year so far. How people can stomach paying up to £40/£50 for console games is beyond me.

    Anyhow, decent torrent sites such as mininova or torrentspy have a comments section, so these developer-released bogus torrents will be quickly labelled as such by the user population.

  • haowan #53 6 years ago

    Only if the bugs are very apparent. If like someone says above it is very subtle then people will not even believe they are experiencing bugs until they've invested a fair amount of time into the game and will be pissed off when it all goes to shit.

  • Sko #54 6 years ago

    Spotting intended bugs and just shit developers being shit in this day and age is going to be a toughie ;)

  • haowan #55 6 years ago

    Heh, after Darwinia... you have a point

  • TheBard #56 6 years ago

    Well how should that work? Most of the big trackers use a rating system anyway, fake software will surely be soon marked as such.

    And non public trackers? No problem at all.

  • Quine #57 6 years ago

    Yeah, but by the time that becomes apparent a ton of eager people will have spent an age downloading the neutered version, and many of them probably won't bother trying again or will buy the full product, especially if it's as cheap as Intro games are.

    On this I speak from experience...

  • kangarootoo #58 6 years ago

    @smelly

    Can I point out an issue with your new world order plan. You say that for someone to prosecute you they would have to admit downloading an illegal copy of a game.

    But they wouldn't have actually downloaded an illegal copy, they would in have downloaded your virus software instead. That they were looking to downlaod a pirate version of the real thing woulodn't be a crime in itself.

    So you get into trouble for your virus, and they wouldn't actually have commited a crime. :)

  • smelly #59 6 years ago

    Nah, as i said, i'd put the punishment in with the real game.

    And Im not intending for them never to get their machine back - once they've paid their fine they get a password to unlock their data.

    Just like impounding a car which has broken the law.

    Sounds fair to me :-)

    But then I think pirates of good independent games are scum and deserve all they get :-)

  • smelly #60 6 years ago

    Spotting intended bugs and just shit developers being shit in this day and age is going to be a toughie

    I think you'll find that most developers DONT want a game to ship with bugs. It's the publishers that want to force the game out the door to hit a street date which causes the problem.

    (Which is why im always a tad wary of games getting released around an important date - like christmas)

  • mrman #61 6 years ago

    "Heh. Ive also noticed if a company sends a nice polite email to the torrent site asking them to remove the torrents instead of threatening them, it also works in most cases."

    Not with the pirate bay, they dont give a shit,. bunch of thieving swedish bastards basically.

  • smelly #62 6 years ago

    As you lot can tell, im pretty much against piracy.

    But Im even more against it when it's independent studios doing it.

    If Introversion doesnt sell enough copies because too many people pirate it - then they'll have to stop making games.

    They arent the likes of EA, etc. They cant afford to have people pirate their game who wouldve otherwise have bought it.

    Support the indies!!! That's what i say!

  • haowan #63 6 years ago

    Smelly, you probably wanna head over and check out Greg Costikyan's Manifesto Games. They're definitely singin' the same tune as you are here.

    Other less frightful indie sites:

    TIGSource

    Independent Gaming (Definitely worth bookmarking this one)
    Edited by 1 at 28/08/06 @ 01:26

  • Furbs #64 6 years ago

    So smelly, in your grand new plan, couldnt it be counteracted if someone came up with a program that detected some malicious code and somehow counteracted/disabled it?

    Hell, thats a great idea. Anyone know much about coding? I can do the marketing side of things. I reckon "Anti-Virus software" sounds catchy.

  • smelly #65 6 years ago

    @Furbs : You REALLY dont get what im saying here do you?

    I cant believe the stupidity of some people on games forums...

  • Furbs #66 6 years ago

    Seems simple enough to me. Dodgy version of game comes with virus that cripples your harddrive no? Any virus checker worth its salt would block that so as not to look like idiots, even if the virus comes from a "legit" source (spyware for instance, isnt a virus per se, but my McAfee prevents its installation). Similarly, Sonys rootkit is removed by alot of virus checkers/spyware removers, despite coming from a "reputable" company.

    Ok, lets imagine another scenario. I download a pirated game, and put it on my companies computer. Through no fault of their own, they inherit a locked harddrive and incur the costs of releasing it, not to mention disruption of their business, including missing out on a major major deal. Sueing me is a waste of time, so who are they going to go after?

    You're the one showing abject stupidity. If any company could do it, and could get away with it, its Microsoft. And yet what do they do about non-genuine copies? They simply give you a warning that it isnt. Theres a reason for that. Microsofts lawyers > some nobody on a gaming forum.

  • smelly #67 6 years ago

    *sigh*

    Im not suggesting anyone SHOULD actually do it!

    Just that it'd teach the cnuts a lesson if they did!

  • smelly #68 6 years ago

    I download a pirated game, and put it on my companies computer. Through no fault of their own, they inherit a locked harddrive and incur the costs of releasing it, not to mention disruption of their business, including missing out on a major major deal. Sueing me is a waste of time, so who are they going to go after?



    Simple, if i were them i'd sue you fot gross misconduct.

    downloading illegal software at work? I'd fire you on the spot.

  • Furbs #69 6 years ago

    Ok, and how does that help recover the vital £100,000 contract they've lost whilst waiting for the harddrive to become accessable, when I'm say, a £14,000 a year sales guy?

    You clearly dont understand the legal or business world. Its precisely this kind of potential eventuality (not to mention willfully distributing a virus would violate the Patriot Act in the US) that prevents companies from doing this. Not to mention the bad press it would generate.

    So in summary, as mentioned several times, your idea is bullshit. You should remember that before you go on about peoples stupidity.

  • smelly #70 6 years ago

    I think the answer to who's beeing stupid or not should be based upon which one of us wasnt actually being serious??

    Geasus.. If you actually thought my idea was anything other than serious then I bow down to your jade goody level of stupidness!

    Its like me saying that I think all car theives should be electrocuted and killed when they get n the car (like in robocop). I love the idea, and it'd teach the mofos a lesson, but it isnt going to happen - so i'm in no way being serious about said idea.

    Get it?

    Or do you want me to re-explain in words of 1 sylable which someone in elementry school could understand?

  • Furbs #71 6 years ago

    LOL "I was only kidding" was the sort of crap retort we used to come up with in elementary school when someone was shown up to be full of crap.

  • smelly #72 6 years ago

    Are you related to Jade Goody by any chance?

    If I actually said "i'd love to see them put those car theft killing devices from robocop into cars", would you then totally believe that i was being totally serious with that remark, then lecture me on human rights, etc etc?

    Hang on, you're alice tinker from vicar of dibley arent you?
    Edited by 1 at 28/08/06 @ 21:44

  • Furbs #73 6 years ago

    For something you were only kidding about you seem to be have spent an awfully long time defending it.

    But sorry, I have no clue what you are talking about with regards to that character, the last BBC sitcom I watched was Bottom about 10 years ago.

  • smelly #74 6 years ago

    LMFAO!

    Dime bar?

  • Furbs #75 6 years ago

    Heh, yeah we'd get into name calling and insults at first school too :)

    Are you going to do the "tongue inside chin" thing followed by a "nnnnnnnneh" noise next?

  • kangarootoo #76 6 years ago

    @smelly

    "Support the indies!!! That's what i say!"

    Well I'm with you on that, or at least what I assume you mean (EA are an "indie" too you know, but I'm sure you don't mean them).

  • smelly #77 6 years ago

    (Ignoring furbs as he obviously is a bit dim)

    kanga: How are EA an independent? They're the biggest game publisher in the world!

    Confused?

  • urban #78 6 years ago

    what a bunch of idiots :)

  • smelly #79 6 years ago

    My thoughts exactly.

  • Kelduum #80 6 years ago

    Ok, heres an idea.

    Smelly, please make your dodgy disk wrecker, and upload it all over, pretending to be various commerical applications.

    Two things can happen:

    1. People download it, sue you for fracking their computers, you countersue, and all the dirty pirates go to jail - you are vindicated and can laugh at everyone.

    2. People download it, sue you for fracking their computers, and you go to jail, which means you wont be posting quite as much.

    Its a lot more likely #2 would happen, but i'd be interested to see the result.