MS never meant XBL Points to "mislead"

By Robert Purchese Published 20 January, 2010

Greenberg wants to be more "transparent".

US Xbox bigwig Aaron Greenberg has explained that Microsoft Points were never meant to "mislead" customers when buying content on Xbox Live.

Unlike Sony's policy on the PlayStation Network, downloadable content on Xbox 360 is not priced in real currency, but rather Microsoft Points (MSP), of which one is worth £0.0085 or €0.012.

Interestingly, Microsoft dropped this proprietary currency for Xbox Live Games On Demand, a service that sells full Xbox 360 titles for download for £20.

"We never intended to ever mislead people," Greenberg told G4TV. "We want to be transparent about it, and so it is something that we're looking at.

"How can we be more transparent and let people see it in actual dollars? You've got to think that we have one service that we're offering around the world. The nice thing about Points is that no matter if you're on the JPY or the EUR or the USD - something that's 200 Points is 200 Points everywhere around the world."

"There's more technical complexities to being able to put local prices in," he added. "You have to do that for every product in every country and you then have to deal with currency fluctuations. So there's some challenges to that, but we absolutely did it with the Games On Demand, response has been good and absolutely it's something we're looking at doing."

Greenberg also addressed the Xbox Live Friends list limit of 100, and revealed that he too finds the restriction annoying.

"Exactly when [a fix] happens I can't say because there's some technical requirements tied to it. But I can tell you that, just like consumers, I share the same frustration and I, too, want more than 100 friends, and so know that we all want that and that we are working on getting that fixed," he said.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (69) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Shinetop #1 2 years ago

    I like points because that way I don't have to pay a separate transaction fee for every small purchase. I just buy a whole bunch of points and pay the fee once. I thought that was the whole idea.

  • CrunchinJelly #2 2 years ago

    So long as they keep the points system, as well.

    I can get deals on points, I can't get deals on real money.

  • MyPointIs #3 2 years ago

    It doesn't seem to be an obstacle for Apple Store.

  • cianchristopher #4 2 years ago

    It's true that it doesn't feel like real money.

    I was on the PSN store yesterday and saw the "special offer" on the CoD:WaW map pack bundle - all three packs for €24.99!!

    I thought "Jesus, that's a lot of money for DLC" even though I bought all three of them for the 360 version - I just never looked at it like real money at the time...

    Fucking Microsoft and their thieving ways...

  • Eraysor #5 2 years ago

    I'd probably purchase less stuff were they to price everything in real money. I usually buy a huge stack of points at once and by the time I've spent them all on Rock Band songs I barely even remember buying the points in the first place.
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/10 @ 15:14

  • photoboy #6 2 years ago

    What a load of bullshit. What difference does it make having something be 200 points in every country? It doesn't aid transparency to the customer since they can't buy games from outside their home region anyway. The real reason is so they can sell you blocks of points that are always bigger than the number of points needed for the item you want to buy. This way they make more money than the actual price of the item and the customer is left feeling he should buy some more points so he can use the leftovers.

    Any why do points prevent problems with currency fluctuations? A game with a fixed price or a block of points with a fixed price will still both be subject to currency fluctuations.

  • 3william56 #7 2 years ago

    If he was Pinnochio, his nose would have passed Mars by now.
    Impulse buy, concealed prices, concealed exchange rates, and kids pressing the buttons... bargain.

    CrunchinJelly - yes you can. You'll often see iTunes or other store credit sold below cost as specials. Or hey - they could reduce the price for a sale, like Sony and every other shop on the planet.

  • Skurmedel #8 2 years ago

    He is full of bullshit. The points system is a classic way to make people pay for more than they want. It's not like the MS invented it either. The bloody prices are tailored for you to end up spending more than you need to. It might not happen everytime but it does far too often. That and the fact that you'll have to phone them to cancel your Gold account are the things that pisses me off the most with XBL.

    The App Store works well in this way, you pay for stuff and get charged the day after. If you buy several things in one day they end up on the same bill.
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/10 @ 15:17

  • Paulie_P #9 2 years ago

    Me no like points...bad medicine.
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/10 @ 15:23

  • ignatiusjreilly #10 2 years ago

    I wonder what percentage of his audience he thinks he is fooling? And whether he is bothered by the fact that the rest of his audience know he is lying to them?

  • MaFlippinHeadHurts #11 2 years ago

    Aye right, what a load of tosh - It does work, only in their favour though. I know for a fact that I've spent way more money downloading stuff than I wouldn't have if it were marked up as actual cash. My son even started downloading from my account thinking that it didn't cost anything for points and only realised once I had no points left. load of pants he downloaded too!
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/10 @ 16:13

  • Shinetop #12 2 years ago

    I thought "Jesus, that's a lot of money for DLC" even though I bought all three of them for the 360 version - I just never looked at it like real money at the time...

    Fucking Microsoft and their thieving ways...

    Amazing. You're willingly parting with your money in exchange for DLC, and freely admit that you were dumb enough not to think about how much what you're buying actually costs, and somehow that makes Microsoft thieves?

  • Eraser #13 2 years ago

    100 friends? I never knew having friends on XBox Live was part of the same childish popularity contest that Facebook is...

  • Quak #14 2 years ago

    "Currency fluctuations" mean nothing in the gaming/tech industries. $40 = £40 no matter what the exchange rate, everyone knows that.
    Edited by 2 at 20/01/10 @ 15:41

  • Sniper_007 #15 2 years ago

    I agree, I know what I'm spending but I don't feel so bad about spending it!!

    It's not like multiplying the points up by 85p is all that challenging though.... 400 points is £3.40, 800 is £6.80 - a rock band track is £1.36 or £3.74 for a track pack - all things I can live with :) It also makes buying DLC much easier in front of the Mrs if she doesn't have to see a price tag over its head.... this way she doesn't try and use it to justify her own shopping habits ;)

    I'm not too fussed about the 100 friends, it used to be an issue when I was running leagues over on another site (which I won't mention in case it breaches T&Cs) but nowadays I rarely play with anyone but my top 10 friends on Live. Being able to group friends would be useful though, so I'm only notified from certain friends, etc?
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/10 @ 15:47

  • urban #16 2 years ago

    yeah you dealt with it by making it EXTREMELY expensive.

  • miiiguel #17 2 years ago

    Plz don't drop the points system, I like it, because I can use it on every Marketplace. Plz, plz, mr. Green.

    Please!

  • Shakey_Jake33 #18 2 years ago

    "I like points because I don't feel so bad buying things.
    It is just play money.

    Points are bad exactly because they establish that mentality, one where the customer can detach themselves from actual, 'real world' spending.

  • awb83 #19 2 years ago

    points are fucking shit. proper money should be used instead.

    ALL HAIL THE POUND ££££££
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/10 @ 15:57

  • darleysam #20 2 years ago

    And yet nobody ever questions Nintendo for doing the same thing.

  • miiiguel #21 2 years ago

    ^^^ shiu! Nintendo are "good guys", everybody knows that. We don't know why, but that's just the way it is.

  • asphaltcowboy #22 2 years ago

    I like the points. It means that when they release an XBLA title, it's out everywhere at the same time on the same day for the same number of points. None of this waiting for weeks after it's arrived on the US store for it to land on the EU store and all that nonsense!

  • LR100 #23 2 years ago

    If something that is 200 points is 200 points in every country, then surely through currency conversion, some people are paying more than others, some people are paying less. I really don't understand how that could possibly be balanced. 200 points GBP may not equal 200 points in canadian dollars.

  • Shakey_Jake33 #24 2 years ago

    @asphaltcowboy - That's nothing to do with points or pricing, it's because of the lack of real communication between the different regional divisions of PSN, and the certification precedures.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #25 2 years ago

    The cynical views expressed in here could well be true, but what he says is also true. Lets try and be fair about it.

    It's much easier to set an item at 400 points on an online system which then works around the world and sell the points through existing retail channels which handle the different currencies and exchange rates.

    Not to mention that some people cant/wont use credit cards.

    Personally I think they should keep them and then gradually roll out national currencies along side them so you can buy something either with 400 points or £3.40.

  • Paulie_P #26 2 years ago

    I always mention about Nintendo's point system. Their system is even worse than Microsoft's. I mean one set of points for the wii and one for the dsi, each priced differently and only applicable to the console they're purchased on? It's a joke.

  • Fallen_Angel #27 2 years ago

    @LR100 That was my first throught also, but then I realised, that you've already done the "currency conversion" into Monopoly money. The way I took what he said is that the currency conversion is dealt with when you buy the points, so they work out the same price roughly globally, and therefore rather than having to list the game 20 times in announcements for every different currency they can just say 200 points worldwide.

    And generally, I have a love/hate thing going with points. Its annoying that you have to buy them as batches that never quite match up and you end up needing 100 more if you want them there and then, but on the other hand its quite easy to find them reduced.

  • GamesConnoisseur #28 2 years ago

    I use both MSP and £ on PSN, what is telling that I noticed that I purchased on impluse far less in PSN than I do with Marketplace. So this works even on people who knows FAR better what it is!

    So MS is onto a winner but I do prefer it when they settles for real currency, just let us hope that still operates with same prinicple of 200 points here or there.

    PSN different regions seem to have different rates that doesnt always equate the same value in all the areas.

  • Fallen_Angel #29 2 years ago

    @GamesConnoisseur For me its the other way round (Although more Steam than PSN). I see something listed at £3-6 I'll stick it in as an impulse buy, but if its 800MSP I then realise that I'll need to pay for 1000 and thats 8 quid and quickly edging out of impulse territory for me.

  • photoboy #30 2 years ago

    @darleysam

    I'd forgotten Nintendo do it too, it's been ages since I last bought anything online for the Wii. They're cunts too then.

  • frunk #31 2 years ago

    I prefer PSN - real money I don't mind spending, points on Nintendo and MS I am deeply suspicious of and avoid when I have a choice.

    As for.... "There's more technical complexities to being able to put local prices in," he added. "You have to do that for every product in every country and you then have to deal with currency fluctuations."

    As we say in Scotland - "Get tae F***!"

    A software giant like Microsoft can't deal with those technical complexities - phhhtt!

    Or perhaps it IS difficult in which case it is no wonder Internet Explorer is in trouble just now! ;)

  • Stegofreak #32 2 years ago

    I seem to have the opposite problem to everyone else. In my head I think 800 - big number. I'm more reluctant to spend MS points then real money on the PSN.

  • Murton #33 2 years ago

    Currency fluctuations don't seem to bother any other digital distributor. PSN for example the publisher sets whatever price they want though they generally follow standard pricing that other publishers use, with the exception of some like Bethesda who put a huge 25% markup on Failout 3 DLC packs over the MSP price.

    For me, proper money is better than having to buy stacks of points, points will either sit there unused or get wasted on something I don't really want while real money is spent and that's that. Also with the PSN I have the choice to either fund my wallet or buy the item in full with my credit card and leave the wallet empty, you can't do that in marketplace because you have to buy the points in stacks that are invariably larger than the cost of the item in question, which is where the accusations of misleading come in.

    On the subject of being misleading, if I was going to deny misleading my customers, I think I'd come up with better excuse than "managing multiple currencies is hard" when every other digital distributor seems to be coping with it just fine.

  • busboy33 #34 2 years ago

    @photoboy:

    "Any why do points prevent problems with currency fluctuations? A game with a fixed price or a block of points with a fixed price will still both be subject to currency fluctuations."

    Those two things are different. The block of points would definitely still be subject to price fluctuation . . . but with blocks there are only 4 prices to adjust. If I buy 2000 points for lets say 10 pounds, then the pound devalues and 2000 points cost 12 pounds . . . I've still got the original 2000 points. Conversely if I buy them for 2000 and the pound goes up so I can buy them for 8 pounds . . . I've still got the points. It is literally currency-trading, with one of the currencies being an imaginary money that only gets sold in blocks.

    The games, on the other hand, aren't subject to currency fluctuations. If Castle Crashers costs 1200 points, whether you buy those points with a strong or weak pound doesn't change the price for CC. Now, the cost of getting those poins may change as above, but what those points buy doesn't "float". Look at it this way: if you have exactly 10 pounds, depending on the day you may or may not be able to buy CC, but if you have 1200 points you definitely can.

    (all this is for rehtorical amusement -- MS is clearly trying to "trick" consumers into buying more points than they need, thus causing them to spend them more wantonly and continue to buy more. It's a fair trick, but still clearly a trick)

  • sneetch #35 2 years ago

    "There's more technical complexities to being able to put local prices in," he added. "You have to do that for every product in every country and you then have to deal with currency fluctuations."

    What a load of nonsense. Currency fluctuations? Those fluctuations don't affect the cost of Microsoft points so why would they affect the cost of games on Live?

    They could easily just set basic price points for the different regions and leave it at that. They already have, really; 800 Microsoft Points cost £6.80, US$10 and €9.60 at the moment so those are the "real world" prices of most games on Live.

  • keano #36 2 years ago

    i like points .....especially when u know how to get £30 worth of points for about £7....if u cant get points cards from 3rd party sellers and have to pay microsoft directly then tht would annoy me.

  • Baggies1879 #37 2 years ago

    One thing in MS points favour is that items are usually a bit cheaper on XBL than on PSN. I've seen several items for 800 points vs £7.99 on PSN

  • BabyJesus #38 2 years ago

    Yeah stick with Points I say, at first I was against them for the reasons pretty much everyone was but I've grown to like the points system and the benefits of having something the same price for every person in every region.

    The ps system actually makes me feel guilty as someone else alluded too. Whereas every few months I buy a couple thousand points and it's done and dusted and I don't constantly have to look at the money I dwindled away on some dlc.

    If that makes sense :/

  • MrLovePump #39 2 years ago

    I think what pretty much spells it out is... Who has not had a few hundred points left and spent it on some balls theme or the like.

    Chances are you wouldn't of paid cash for the same thing! We are all guilty of being microshafted!!!

  • Shakey_Jake33 #40 2 years ago

    @MrLovePump - It's more than that. It's not a coincidence that points are sold in different amounts to what games are sold at. It's designed so that you always have points left over, and feel compelled to purchase additional points in order puchase something else, and the cycle continues. We could see this as the customer 'choosing' to purchase the extra points, but I think it's a mistake to discard to discrete psychology behind this.

  • sarcasmoidosis #41 2 years ago

    I remember reading somewhere that the limit of the 100 friends was kept because Halo 2 crashed when they removed it. Halo 2 is still one of the most played titles on the Box, so they kept it. Maybe it's time to kill it?

    Edit: link for the above - [link url=http:// games.gearlive.com/playfeed/article/q309-truth-revealed-halo -2-causing-xbox-live-100-friend-limit/
    ]http://ga mes.gearlive.com/playfeed/artic...[/link]

    Might be a coy marketing stunt though :)
    Edited by 1 at 20/01/10 @ 21:22

  • Red-Moose #42 2 years ago

    It's great if your Bill G, as you don't need to worry about price flucuations. For example, a weakening dollar - still shielded, just adjust the points and keep the exchange rates oblique and disconnected from actual current rates so people in i.e., EU/UK don't see thye are so clearly shafted.

    But yeah, they don't mean to mislead people, even though they *are* misleading people. The mean to ensure continuous revenue and buffer currency drops against the parent company.

  • Mercatoria #43 2 years ago

    more than 100 friends on xbox live seems a bit excessive

  • Sunyavadin #44 2 years ago

    "The nice thing about Points is that no matter if you're on the JPY or the EUR or the USD - something that's 200 Points is 200 Points everywhere around the world."

    As everyone else has pointed out -
    America $2.50 (£1.53, ¥228, €1.77)
    Britain £1.70 ($2.77, ¥252, €1.96)
    Japan ¥296 ($3.24, £1.98, €2.30)
    Europe €2.40 ($3.39, £2.08, ¥309)

    Clearly MS are using it as a way to profit from exchange rates, nothing more.

  • Murton #45 2 years ago

    @ Babyjesus: I don't get why you would feel guilty about the PSN when you could opt to use it in the exact same way as the marketplace. You could put 10 or 20 quid in your PSN wallet every few months as and when you see something you like and it's still done and dusted in the same way you would buy a stack of points from Microsoft. Or alternatively you could not bother maintaining your wallet and just buy direct from the PS Store. You could even use a combination of the two, During the Christmas Holiday I bought Trine on special offer for £7.99, as this was the only thing I wanted I couldn't be bothered to credit my wallet with additional funds and just used all my e-wallet and allowed the PS Store to charge my card for the remainder, it is that choice in payment options that makes the PS Store better than the Marketplace in my opinion.

    Perhaps the transparency that Greenberg is alluding to is something similar to the multiple purchasing options of the PS Store. Possibly the ability to buy exactly the amount of points you need in order to access the content you want by selling in units of 100 rather than 500? I'm sure many 360 owners would welcome such a move.

  • hiruu #46 2 years ago

    Seems to me that points are a great way to set prices flat...worldwide...so whether you're in UK or the US, you pay the same...you can't do that with real currency. Are points for items more in EU than the US? Seems that it's the same everywhere, but maybe I'm missing something here...are people complaining about paying the same amount around hte world? Are we in bizzarro world?

  • Eurogameruser #47 2 years ago

    Game on demand pricing is bs. £20 = €23.50 actual conversion. Yet miicrosoft charge €29.99

    That's simply profiteer

  • Phishfood #48 2 years ago

    I'm sure whoever came up with MS points to begin did mean to mislead people in the first place. Its not at all hard to change MS Points in to real world currency figures.

  • headrush #49 2 years ago

    I never understood how people need more than 100 friends on live. I got less than 10 and it suits me fine. I dont have to add every bloke I give a beating at street fighter. Even less every guy that beats me ;)

  • busboy33 #50 2 years ago

    @teh9182:

    Isn't there some way to "gift" points? I remember looking into it for a friend and it looking like a bit of a pain in the ass (you had to go thru a web browser to a specific MS portal) but I'm pretty sure you already can do that. Not sure if the quantity transferrable is open though (can you transfer 267 points, or do you have to make transfers in preset amounts).

    Just looked about for it and couldn't find anything, so maybe I just imagined it . . . but I would have sworn there is already a way to do that now.

  • actionfitz #51 2 years ago

    "We never intended to ever mislead people,"

    I call bullshit.
    having to buy blocks of points that are always in blocks bigger than what the average dlc costs means you always have to buy more points that you need.
    Hence the totally cynically priced avatar clothing crap. 260 points for a white tshirt with a tiny logo that advertises a product or game to all my friends list? fuck off.

  • actionfitz #52 2 years ago

    "Fallen_Angel
    @GamesConnoisseur For me its the other way round (Although more Steam than PSN). I see something listed at £3-6 I'll stick it in as an impulse buy, but if its 800MSP I then realise that I'll need to pay for 1000 and thats 8 quid and quickly edging out of impulse territory for me."

    exactly. Steam hoovered up an obscene amount of my disposable income this xmass with its £2 - £5 games, bigger games reduced to £14 etc.
    If I want to buy the equivalent value games on Live I have to spend over £20 or so to get enough points, then i have a load of left over points im expected to save up or blow on avatar hats.
    /fail.

  • kangarootoo #53 2 years ago

    This has really never been a big deal for me. The reason? I can do simple multiplication.

    When I am looking at the price of something in points, I can estimate in my head what it will cost in £. And if I need a more accurrate value, I have a calculator in my phone that works just fine.

    I like points because, as others have said, you can buy them cheaper if you shop around. That said, now that PSN have introduced vouchers, a bit of shopping around will show you can buy £20 for a bit over £15, so the same situation now applies.

    The only downside (there is always one), is that I also don't like having to buy a bunch of points when I only want to buy something cheap. It works out the same in long run, but I don't buy things on XBLM very often. I guess if I bought stuff frequently I wouldn't care.

  • RealityCheque #54 2 years ago

    My god I'd forgotten how many muppets there are in the comments section round here.

    You have a brain. Use it. Don't bitch at companies because you can't control your own spending.

  • kangarootoo #55 2 years ago

    @actionfitz

    "having to buy blocks of points that are always in blocks bigger than what the average dlc costs means you always have to buy more points that you need"

    Well not really. I have points at the moment that are just sat there unspent. I'm not forced to buy avatar hats with them. They will just be waiting there ready for when I next do some shopping. In the long term, the only points that are actually wasted are the ones left over just before you die (or stop using your 360).

    Its like a cash machine that only gives you notes instead of exact change (i.e, the way they all work). You don't have to spend the £1.25 that is left in your pocket on something frivolous, it just sits there until you add more money to it to create a more usable fund.
    Edited by 1 at 21/01/10 @ 09:49

  • kangarootoo #56 2 years ago

    "You have a brain. Use it. Don't bitch at companies because you can't control your own spending."

    Rudely put truth :)

  • MikeN #57 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo
    The cash machine comparison to ms points is not really accurate. It's more akin to buying a product in a shop and instead of giving you back your change the cashier hands you a credit note for the balance.

    Edited by 1 at 21/01/10 @ 11:01

  • kangarootoo #58 2 years ago

    @MikeN

    Well fair enough, point well made. However, if its a shop you buy from frequently its not such a big deal is it? All the same, your analogy was better than mine (which oversimplified).

    My gripe I guess was that its not realistic for people to act as if they are forced to spend their "spare change" on pointless tat like avatar hats and t-shirts. As RealityCheque pointed out, a bit of self control is all that is needed to fix that issue.

    Also, its not an issue specific to points. The PSN store requires that I "buy" minimum amount of wallet money, regardless of whether I only need another 43p to fund my next purchase. So I always have a surplus in my wallet, just like I have a surplus in my XBLM points cache.

    Maybe it would be nice to be given the choice in both cases? Buy as many or as few points/£ as you want, but get a discount for buying them in larger batches?

  • MikeN #59 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo
    True, at the end of the day I'll end up spending those leftover points eventually. I just think that the discepancy between the pricing of dlc in denominations of 400/800/1200 etc and MS selling the points in chunks of 500/1000 is a cynical way of getting you to pay more than you need to.

  • kangarootoo #60 2 years ago

    "I just think that the discepancy between the pricing of dlc in denominations of 400/800/1200 etc and MS selling the points in chunks of 500/1000 is a cynical way of getting you to pay more than you need to"

    Its hard to know. It seems that way to us, 'cos we are counting the pennies. But if you think about the volume of sales, both of points and of DLC content, that actually goes out of XBLM, I'm not sure it really makes any difference to MS in the end.

    Unless of course they are relying on people spending their spare change on tat instead of saving it, but I'm not siure whether to blame them for that, or just blame the fickle customer that can't save their pennies.

  • Murton #61 2 years ago

    A few people commented on the price difference between the PSN UK and US, it's worth noting that unlike the Marketplace all content on the PSN is priced by the publisher rather than by Sony. So it's the publishers that seem to believe that UK residents are willing to pay more their games. Of course this all started at the time when the pound was extremely weak which is fair enough a I guess, but the prices don't seem to be springing back now that the pound is regaining strength, same goes for the 45 quid price point at retail.

    It's hard to say what's going on really, on the one hand points are points and therefore don't suffer from currency fluctuation, but as real currency has to be traded for points in the first place then it can be argued that currency fluctuation is as big a factor to the Marketplace as it is the PSN Store.

  • 00.00.01 #62 2 years ago

    Nice discussion going on here (apart from teh odd capslocker going F"£$%KKKK...). Much appreciated.
    As for ca$h/points, I only do realtime money. No other company (i.e. supermarket, gasstation) asks me to buy 'bundled' amounts of their self-invented currency, because it limits the possibility to shop around. Vice-versa there is no way for M$ to justify their policy as customers simply can't shop around.
    There's only one XBL to spend your dosh.
    Am curious to see what the XBL policy will be once the US-dollar starts to get stronger again, because people will then buy large amounts while cheap to profit from that once the dollar is more vallueable.
    @ kangarootoo 21/01/10 @ 11:09
    Left-overs in the PSN wallet can be redirected back to the creditcard they came from originally, but if your wallet is filled-up via a PSN card I don't think so. (PSN-cards were only introduced for thos with no access to CC).
    Just a few questions:
    -PSN-titles can be downloaded 5 times after purchase, no limitations to IP-number or PS3-number (see PSN T&C). As long as it's downloaded to the online account of that specific user. This makes it very interesting for people to purchase titles/items together and then download the item to multiple machines. Does this also work for the Xbox?
    -Can Xbox points be reversed back into cash/bankaccount?
    Edited by 1 at 21/01/10 @ 12:18

  • Sunyavadin #63 2 years ago

    @Sunyavadin - The price varies from region to region on all services.

    I was pointing out the blatant misdirection in his comment that-
    "The nice thing about Points is that no matter if you're on the JPY or the EUR or the USD - something that's 200 Points is 200 Points everywhere around the world."
    When 200 points is NOT worth the same everywhere in the world. And that its differences in value are independent of the exchange rate.

    No other company (i.e. supermarket, gasstation) asks me to buy 'bundled' amounts of their self-invented currency, because it limits the possibility to shop around. Vice-versa there is no way for M$ to justify their policy as customers simply can't shop around.
    There's only one XBL to spend your dosh.
    I'd dispute that. This is pretty much what banks do. It's a practice intended to get your money and profit off it whilst promising to reimburse you the value of your investment in the future, whilst keeping the majority of the profits.
    Edited by 1 at 21/01/10 @ 12:36

  • kangarootoo #64 2 years ago

    "Left-overs in the PSN wallet can be redirected back to the creditcard they came from originally"

    Ah, I didn't know that. Cheers.

  • septimus #65 2 years ago

    I hate points. Such a pain in the ass. I still have 100 points that can never be used, you always have something left over.

    That and if I buy 3000 points or whatever through Live, they sit there with my money. At least with PSN I can zero the account.

  • 00.00.01 #66 2 years ago

    @ kangarootoo
    This is what PSN states: 'Except as otherwise permitted by applicable law or as expressly provided in this Agreement, funds added to the wallet are non-refundable and non-transferable.
    But....your CC company will also state that 'any purchases made/amounts withdrawn from your CC can be made undone if reported with 30 days after purchase/withdrawl date. Just ask the CC company to withdraw the 'extra' amount that is left and you should be fine, as long as PSN gets paid for anything the user purchased. Therefore PSN also states in T&C 'Subject to applicable law, wallet funds that are deemed abandoned or unused by law will not be returned or restored.'

  • kangarootoo #67 2 years ago

    "Subject to applicable law, wallet funds that are deemed abandoned or unused by law will not be returned or restored"

    That is an odd one. How would you deem finds to be abandoned or unused? Sounds like it someone dies with money in their PSN wallet, Sony keeps it rather than returning it to their estate :)

  • Remy #68 2 years ago

    Points, whatever - I always translate it all into real money cost in my head anyway. If anything I tend to mentally over-cost points things in my head, as I work them out at the 'normal' MS Points cost rather than whatever bargain deal I actually bought them for 6 months before or whatever; resulting in me not buying things at the margins sometimes. Also the erratic pricing of DLC makes me very stingy... "800 points" seems too much for a map pack when I can buy whole great games for 400 or 800!

    However the 100 friends limit is a far more pressing issue. I am annoyed every single time I use XBL because of this, I desperately need more than this, and constantly have to shuffle friends in and out of my FL to fit them all on. The trouble is I have a lot of "real life" friends I want on my FL for social reasons, and then I have a lot of "gaming friends" that I want on my FL to actually play specific games with.

    The solution needs to be clever though, ideally I'd like ways to chunk up my FL into groups, and also be able to vary the notifications I get from different groups of friends. I'd also love to be able to instantly see which of my friends actually plays whatever game it is I might like to invite them to. Oh and add notes for which character they are good with on SF2... I've actually been sad enough to write a spreadsheet to keep track of all the extra info I want against people on my XBL FL! :-/ Ok I am a bit of an exception in my gaming habits rather than the norm, but I've met quite a lot of people who have problems with the 100 limit too.

  • busboy33 #69 2 years ago

    @MikeN:

    I agree with you that the "blocks" system of points are a method to get you to buy more than you need, thereby having extra points, thus "insuring" you are more like to buy more in the future. I just don't think its a bad thing.

    Its straight marketing trickery, the same you see when you go to the store and the impulse buys are all right next to the register, or when they price something "$7.99" because "$8.00" would look too expensive.

    I'm not actually being trickked . . . they're just taking advantage of my psychological quirks and weaknesses. Same as any retailer. Maybe I'm not so upset becasue I actually buy quite a bit from XBL and Zune, so extra points aren't a problem for me. In fact, they actually help: that 800 point purchase now only costs 532 points when I consider all the spare points left over, so it "seems" cheaper than it is.