MS helps PS3 projects blossom - report News

Every news article these days either seems to link to Kotaku or ShopTo

All the funding in the world didn't make VR a good game though. Sold 4 copy's as well.

That is not what the dev sums up. In fact, none of what you have written about is mentioned in the article. Its just the SAME OLD TWOFF that you post over and over and over and over and over.

Just copy your comment to the clipboard and paste it in every thread. You can then dedicate those minutes of life to something else.

If Worms is anything to go by, just as the slightly enhanced port appears on PSN the vastly super sequel appears on Xbox Live!

"Blossom" is probably not the correct pick of words. A lot of these things are dodgy ports for some quick money probably done by another small team while the real team is working on something new.

Donnie: you are talking tosh again, aren't you? Please stop it.

"ive heard of devs choosing PSN exclusively for the support sony gives them. " Yeah wheres that Superstardust HD retrospective... He was praising the Support he received from Sony.

Not sure if MS will particularly care if all the better titles end up appearing six months later on the PS3. People will buy the 360 version just because it's out earlier...

By the time the PS3 version comes out for £40 the 360 version is £12.99 in the bargain bin so you pay £27 for your "extra" features (read: stuff that was far too poor for the xbox but which PS3 fanboys can crow about)

@ tachometer

I don't think anyone will be crowing. A shit game is a shit game, and anyone with any sense won't buy either version.

Could this really still be the case? Didn't Vampire Rain come out in Jan 2007, around 2 months after the PS3 came out? I'd have thought the support for PS3 developers might well not have been that established when he was working on Vampire Rain before the PS3 had been released.

I would have been surprised if Microsoft's dev tools and support weren't better than Sony's. I mean, they are a software company first and foremost.. and has been for several decades.

So its the devs that are ruining the industry... i see :)

If Donnie winds you up that much then just ignore him. Simples?

So one dev can voice the opinion of all the developers. Interesting.

Sony have started doing incentives for PSN titles (to try and get them exclusive), I know that much. No idea about previously.

Anyway, they're talking about retail titles, not DD stuff.

svd_grasshopper: which is like a pc to develop on

And you know that because?

Most PC games development is for one or two cores on x86 architecture, Xbox 360 development is for six threads on PowerPC architecture (PowerPC is also Nintendo Wii and PS3's Cell too).

I don't know, I still think MS is getting the better deal here.

Imagine if Squenix/Namco outright said "we're shipping the game today, but in a year we'll have an upgraded version". I don't know how many people would be willing to wait that much. Not when it comes to a game that has been anticipated by fans. The success of GT5P seems to indicate that (though that might be stretching too much).

Personally I never play Japanese genre games so this doesn't effect me at all. I'd wager the same applies for many of the people in here (most of whom just seem to be Sony fanboi flamers judging by the post ratings and Grasshopper making his customary appearance)...

It still all boils down to the parallel programming transition that the whole software industry (not just PS3 game developers) is facing going forward. Clock speeds have pretty much hit a ceiling, so processors are having more cores added to increase performance instead, but new software has to be designed from the ground up to utilise these modern multi-core chips properly. It is a completely new way of programming and new techniques have to be learnt, and is very difficult to master at the moment.

Apparently he said, " But the Xbox version won’t sell [in Japan], you can’t recoup even those lowered costs at all."

So basically MS moneyhats for temporary exclusivity and 360 owners get to beta test the game, Jp devs get good support for their games and can easily port to PS3 where they will make more sales, PS3 owners get the much delayed version with more features (at Sony's insistence). Anyway, I guess Tales of Vesparia's release will be the litmus test of whether this idea works or not.

@StooMonster

Yeah, but a fair bit of the underlying architecture on the XBox is abstracted by the Direct X API that developers are forced to use.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-directx-360-performance-blog-entry

I doesn't matter so much how different the architecture is between the PC and the 360 if you use the same API to control it.

Have sales of a timed exclusive ever been very good when they're released for the 2nd time? By then the games are usually old news and nobody cares.

I'm just disappointed that Donnie SEEMS to have stopped randomly capitalising WORDS.

I always figured he was talking a bit like Kirk. Now I am sad. :(

& when it does finally come out, its still a rubbish port & not as good as the original

Doesnt really happen on that many games does it? Most games are released at the same time, and i guess as someone else said this is more Japanese based? Seems like a bit of a slow news day.

Well we all know Ninja Gaiden Sigama 2 won't be a buggy broken mess like the 360 version, 360 owners got screwed over that one.

Man, devs are a whiney bunch!..


/runs

"Well we all know Ninja Gaiden Sigama 2 won't be a buggy broken mess like the 360 version, 360 owners got screwed over that one. " You mean like the ps3 does on countless multi platform games which are better on the 360 WITHOUT the wait? remember "who ya gonna call"?

@donnie

Countless? Exaggerating a bit there? Ghost busters was a fked up game. They didnt try AT ALL and that is not countless

"who ya gonna call?"

If I were you donnie most likely a mental hospital to get signed in for treatment for obsession.

"I doesn't matter so much how different the architecture is between the PC and the 360 if you use the same API to control it. "

An API is an API... most of them are more or less the same. You can't claim that a console is like a PC based on what API it uses. The 360 and PC share the same dev tools... hence the ease to port between them. This was done on purpose by MS... it has nothing to do with the hardware. MS has done all the work to make sure their dev environment runs on PC and 360.

Dizzy is correct, also the API in the 360 is a custom version of DirectX with support for the GPUs features(as has been said in the past its a thinner layer of seperation from the hardware than on the PC side i.e. lower overhead), this is also updated often by the XNA team at MS(along with improvements to the compiler on the CPU side... this handles most of the PPC to x86 stuff and vice versa from what I gather).

As has been said before, the best way to develop for the 360 is actually not as if it were a PC, this is not optimal for the 360 either. An engine built with only the 360's strengths, code and features in mind, wouldn't be much like a PC engine at all... well atleast no more than PS3 engines anyway.

Sounds like win win all round really. 360 gamers get games earlier, PS3 gamers get more content for the wait.
Devs get a nice second bulk profit for only a years more work (along side developing next project)

The only people who seem to be out of pocket are MS who are relying on people to by a console based of getting these games earlier then PS3.

Though it all seems alittle redundent at this stage of game as most devs will have their core engine running on both systems now any way so the cost of development is alot less now anyway, and developing for a second platform at the same time is virtually free (relatively).

Whatever format you all like to bitch about, Vampire Rain is possibly THE worst game I have ever played. I'd love the Angry Videogame Nerd to get his paws on it!

I never tend to agree with this "Donnie" dude but you all turning against him about obvious shit like the fatc that you DO buy worst versions of games on the PS3 even after long waits and just giving exceptions of a Ninja Gaiden which takes about 2-3 years more to be released on the PS3 after the 360 and be gladabout it.. Is just sad. This is one of the most pathetic atempts to cover up a thread hat talks shit about Sony once again. Stick at least to the point of what the developers are making again.

Sony is cheap with crappy tools, when MS is paying and helping too much almost each and every project for the developers.

Minusrate that biocthes :) lool its oh-so funny when argue about their consoles even till now. have to get ready now :)byez

ninja gaiden 2 on the ps3 will be that much better than it was on the 360 so I dont see what the problem is. The game will be released in a better version so why should we complain about the time it took to come out? Was there no other game to play in that time?

davidorle: in this respect maybe Sony is cheap. the same and in my opinion worse goes the other way around. MS blatantly copied a large part of Cell's design and knowingly put defective hardware on the market. I'd still would like to see their arses sued for this.

anyhows: the guy mentioned he doesn't know how things are now. Maybe they improved? Will dev tools / support have become like MS's now? HIGHLY unlikely. Like others said: MS is software corp - Sony is not and it still has LOTS to learn there.

does annoy me that the ps3 versions get so much added to them.. its fair enough if theres a year wait in between, but most of these jrpg's come out almost a year later in europe from when they first hit japan and the states.. meaning a game like ToV gets offered to 360 uk owners 9+ months after its release date in the states, leaving us having an "exclusive" game for all of 2-3months before it his the ps3 with aload of added content attached.

shouldnt a developer know what he is doing already??

Dear oh dear :DD Just had to laugh at that one :DD

What Robert Purchese seems to have forgotten to include is that the NB developer in question "aired this insider laundry out in response to the complaints of Tales of Vesperia Xbox 360 fans regarding the supposed exclusivity of the game, and how Namco Bandai is carrying out 'underhanded' and 'unfair' tactics for putting in more on the PS3 version than on the Xbox 360", so some salt needs to be taken with this article, which sounds more like a "don't point your fingers at me" kind of defensive rant on the part of the developer.

Also, MS paying the developer to NOT INCLUDE the game on the PS3 (i.e. secure an exclusive 360 release) seems to be acceptable and par for the course, but if that helps the PS3 game, that must be bad, according to idiots like donnie.

MeBrains no MS did not copy a large part of CELLs design at all that was never what that story said, PPC was never anything to do with Sony the improvements made for the 360 CPU were apparently part funded and influenced by the CELL project, but theres nothing wrong with that(Sony had next to no input on the PPU part the SPEs maybe, MS actually came up with their own ideas for Xenon too... they knew how high the bar was being set). Sony had no chance of completing the CELL project without IBM and they've always done business like that.

man.the.king so asking for some form of exclusivity whether console exclusive or timed exclusive, by helping fund development in the first place is wrong? Is it that so different to many 2nd party exclusive arrangments?

I dont think its bad that it helps the PS3 version(it's a good thing surely that devs make more money on good results) but your logic is flawed, Im not sure Sony have a right to demand extras from the developers for nothing though(kind of arrogant) especially with the lack of support they give developers in the first place.

An API is an API... most of them are more or less the same.

Errr... are they? On a very superficial level maybe, and even then...

You can't claim that a console is like a PC based on what API it uses

It's not like a PC - I didn't say that. I can claim that you deal with the graphics hardware in more or less exactly the same way on the XBox as you would on the PC. I can also claim that all 360 development goes down this route since a) developers cannot circumvent it and b) why wouldn't you use it? And dealing with the graphics hardware is a significant part of the development process.

I'm not criticising MS. They've given developers a good set of tools, and are reaping the benefits. But the bottom line is that developers cannot directly address the graphics hardware. They do it through the astraction of the Direct X layer. A direct X layer thats more stripped down and easier to use than its Win32 / 64 counterpart, and that many developers will be used to dealing with. And while development for the 360 will be different from development for the PC, the difference between the two is therefore going to be a fair bit less than that between the PS3 and the PC because of that.

@Calgon

"Im not sure Sony have a right to demand extras from the developers for nothing though"

Did they though? All we have for this is one developer's blogged rant, apparently in his/their defense against (a few) vocal 360 fanboys, angry at a 360 exclusive no longer being so.

"especially with the lack of support they give developers in the first place. "

The same support some other developers seem to praise?

And, as for "asking for" (if you want to euphemistically term paying for or bribing as a request) exclusivity, yes, I think it is wrong, regardless of whoever does it. If Sony were to do the same, I would not view that as right (I think I have expressed that opinion earlier - I think for Ghostbusters or something - don't remember). However, while I think it's ethically and morally wrong, I recognize that as good business practice, and my comment regarding the exclusivity thing simply referred to donnie (you can go through my earlier post to confirm this if you wish), who seems to look askance at anything to do with the PS3.

Any decent games affected by this? Any?
Hmmm... having to wait for shovelware which will be sh*t because of the porting economics. Can't say I'm crying yet.