E3: MS unveils hands-free Project Natal News

"a revolutionary new way to play where the only experience you need is life experience"

Had to smirk at that. :)

so people who spend lots of time playing too many computer games and avoid real world interactions will have more of an excuse not to socially interact apart from their loving A>I, who will no doubt fill them with self confidence and all the life skills they will ever need.

it does look good though (the AI stuff).

Ok, so all that technology, wich is impressive. And what did they make with it? An EyeToy clone and a creepy as hell little kid. Milo showed allot of cool tech and AI, but the end result was still firmly planted in the uncanny valley.
Come on MS, you need to do better then that. Way better.

Milo will be limited beyond compare!!

The technology was dead impressive. Not sure if it can be implemented well into games, but definitely top notch tech-wise.

Those japs are gonna love the hentai aspects of this :D

That was very impressive. I was quite shocked. I'd have to test it myself to see if it REALLY works but if the technology works, this can open doors for a huge amount of potentially amazing games.

Remember guys, Milo is only a tech demo. Devs havent had a chance to make any actual *games* with the tech yet. Give them chance.

so everyone was expecting a wii-mote copy and instead we got an eyetoy copy??

Pretty lame...

lamest device ive seen, potential good tech but playing football, skateboarding? why not go outside and do it! graphics are a whole lot better, less chance of Red ring too

Pricing will be a massive concern if they want to take Nintendos casual slice of the gamer cake.

That tech can't come cheap.

The potential for that tech is stunning.

Great stuff.

Get rid of the virtual child and they have a winner. It just creeped me out completely.

Molyneux's demo was unbelievable. Genuine hairs standing up stuff. Hope the 'real life' demo gives a good impression.

This goes way beyond pretend skateboarding and break-out with your limbs. Amazing.

i like controllers : (

still, i don't own a 360!!

I loved this tech. No idea why some people are calling it lame. I guess those same people called the wiimote lame when it first came out. I think that this has great potential, even though I can already see a dozen keep fit games in the making. Their vision with the skateboard thing kind of killed Tony Hawks board controller idea, which raised a chuckle from me.

I can already imagine a nice starwars game with full lightsaber movements and being able to point my arm and yell "Force push" or "Force pull" at stormtroopers and opbects or even doing the old emperor lightning strikes.

The only limitation is going to be the size of the space you have to play in!

This goes far beyond Eyetoy in fact in the movies MS did last year was like Eyetoy, this is on a different level not 2D like Eye toy but full 3D, incredible.

The only limit is when people have to realise they actually have to move to do stuff...

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/5...

Here's 3DV's patent.

3D imaging system

It works using a pulsing IR illuminator and a high speed camera so that it can work out the distance from the illuminator of each pixel in the scene.

Sony and Nintendo are finished, because they can't copy this tech, MS own it. Everyone will want this, face and voice recognition for christ sake.

The only problem I can see is that there's no first/third-person shooters for this. I mean, how would you move forward?

Yes, impressive, but everybody knows that your arms will get heavy after playing that racing game for about 10 minutes. And the one pivotal thing this will be missing is physical feedback (rumble).

Apparently you can still use pads with the camera so FPS' etc are still perfectly possible.

If this turns out to be even half as good as MS say it could become huge.

How the hell can this be lame you deluded fanboy chimps???!!!

The potential for this technology is beyond comprehension and all you can say is it's lame??? FFS, why are you even on a gaming website posting so soon after its announcement anyway??

Go back to your PS3's and Wii's and cry into your milk.

If it works, and only if, this could be big.

It won't bring the 360 back to compete with the Wii for the casual market, but it does open it up a lot, and if it ever makes it to more "hardcore" games, as an option at least [I know many would rather use the controller], then it could be freaking awesome.

Hopefully you'll look cooler than this playing it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql-UZv3AS-E

Yes, impressive, but everybody knows that your arms will get heavy after playing that racing game for about 10 minutes.

True, but that didn't stop Mario Kart and all the Wii racers.

Apparently you can still use pads with the camera so FPS' etc are still perfectly possible.

Wouldn't it defeat the point of the full-body controls if you have to have your hands full with a controller?

Although I suppose you could hold the controller like a gun and steer with your thumbs... seems awkard though.

i really don't like all this future stuff. i think i'm going to lock myself in my room with a super nintendo and a copy of now 21.

Microsoft have done it, what everyone has been waiting for, full body control, no controller no device, just your body and voice to control the game. It makes the Wii look like shit, you see this can't be bettered and Sony and Nintendo can't copy it unless they want to pay Microsoft lots of money. When this comes out 360 sales will surpass the Wii by such a big margin, it will catch up in about 6 to 12 months. This goes beyond the casual market, everyone will want this.

wow the only thing that microsoft does is BITE natal is way similar to the EYE TOY, im not trying to flame but when when they state and others state that this is new tech or for that matter intuitive/revolutionary tech is of bunch of BULLSHIT.. what are going to be the games that take advantage of this so called new controler?? it seems to me the only way the 360 can make a good change of making a long console race is to appeal to other than the hardcore market just like the wii is doing. but seriously this was a really bad conference..........

oh dear, the fanboy invasion is here.

The eyetoy was a lot more limited in it's functionality. If you saw the Natal demo you'd see it is quite a bit more advanced, even if it relies on the same principle.

I don't get how it makes games better. In a very few limited applications it has potential, but how is it going to make Mass Effect, FIFA, COD or the like better? Seems like a fairly positive response on here so far, so I'm wondering what are people perceiving as the benefits of this camera to the games they are enjoying at the moment?

Potential, yes.
Technologically impressive, very.

I want to phrase this post without sounding either too sceptical or too fanboyishly wet in the pants.
I'm not saying that designers can't think around these issues, because that's what they're paid to do. It's easy to make comparisons with the Wiimote, because it's clearly the market that Microsoft are aiming at. My principle issue is this - there is a lot to be said for having a physical object to hold. So many of the games we play involve us picking objects up and using them. The Wiimote is the direct extention of your arm in a game world. Also, when the camera is just watching you and the game is reacting to your input, you're left without a physical feedback mechanism. That's point one.

Point two is that, at least in our European part of the world, I don't know many people who have a great deal of space to play games in. Of course, this is a charge you can level at the Wii as well, but by restricting normal play on the Wii to easy gestures, you remove the charge of breaking china, or smashing the dog, or something. If your control is your body, then there's problems for how you go about implementing much - picture walking as an example. I am not, repeat not, going to walk on the spot to move my character forward (I am replaying FF12 at the moment, and if I'd had to walk as far as my characters have - nearly half a million steps currently, I wouldn't have made it out of the Nalbina Dungeons). My floorboards would give up, assuming the parents and neighbours hadn't hung me well before that. Being able to use the 360 pad still is a good plan, but mixing gestures with a control pad which isn't suited for one hand seems to me to be an issue.

Point three is precision. Grabbing an invisible machine gun or sniper rifle (particularly this one) in mid air is all well and good, but it's very easy to be ham-fisted and point off target. The Wiimote works by the controller and sensor calculating where you are pointing at any given moment. It's as accurate as you are (mostly), where as I would like to see some concrete demonstrations of accurate on-screen responses to not-particularly accurate physical movements.


Lastly, I'll try and be positive about it. The interaction with Milo was impressive - hopefully those who get to test it as Molyneux was saying will get to go off piest a little with, and see if it holds up well to having to improvise. I half expected him to push the lass into the water. I wonder where the processing for all this lot goes on? In the Camera device itself? Surely co-ordinating mulitple people (do we know how many people it can video capture at once?), recognising their voice, and running a game engine all at the same time would be a little beyond the current tech in the 360? If they've put it in the camera, I'm sure it probably has cost implications, but I think if it is, it's better to let the 360 do what it does well - drawing the action.

I want to hear more from Microsoft. I'm not exactly sitting on the fence, here. Rather, I have genuine concerns I would like some hard info on.

I think we all saw something in the Wii when it first came out, we were like omg you can play computer golf or tennis using real movements, and then realised.. actually it wasnt all that good. To me this is much along the same idea. We all love the idea of the concept, but will probably be disappointed or get bored of it quickly when it does arrive.

Still credit for MS for progressing this (even though credit should go to nintendo for making others want to do it).

This isn`t ms tech it´s bought tech. I think it was at GDC or E3 last year. A south american company I think, The problem with this as always is that by the time they release something another year has gone by. By the time soemthing really good is released then they´ll be on the next gen and new tech. As for Sony and N coping they don´t need to they just buy another similar tech but come on can you see Nintendo even bothering to copy? They have cheap tech and are the brand that every body knows at the moment. You´ll see this tech on the news and then wait, and wait...

Remember the wii mote killers for the PS2 .... As always it´s software not hardware... Wait

36 posts and no-ones asked if they can use their cock with it. disappointing.

This isn`t ms tech it´s bought tech. I think it was at GDC or E3 last year. A south american company I think, The problem with this as always is that by the time they release something another year has gone by. By the time soemthing really good is released then they´ll be on the next gen and new tech. As for Sony and N coping they don´t need to they just buy another similar tech but come on can you see Nintendo even bothering to copy? They have cheap tech and are the brand that every body knows at the moment. You´ll see this tech on the news and then wait, and wait...


Microsoft own the tech now, ok buddy and what do you mean similar tech, if you mean full body motion control Microsoft on the tech. Next gen and new tech? you can't go beyond this its full body motion control, no controller, no device at all, the only thing that could better this is a holodeck, and that ain't gonna happen in our lifetime.

The tech was bought by MS and also if you go by the company promise, the tech is cheap as well. It was said that this tech will be below 100 US dollars and if MS go the console route, MS might subsidize the tech to sell more of it. Anyway, this tech is just the starting point for MS and you can believe it will not be limited to just games. I would not be surprise if you do not see a partnership with a automaker company. I can also see this tech going into TVs and other things as well.

The great thing about the tech is that it can map your whole body or just parts of your body like your hands. You can pair it with anything you want since it is not limited to a physical device. Interesting enough, MS has a patent for a controller that you wear like a glove. It appear like the controller has force feedback where if you were gripping something it would give you feedback once the object is grab. If you have seen Minority Report just think about how that tech work to get a picture.

Like someone said here or at another forum, you could easily have a lightsaber game where you have a lightsaber in one hand and make motions with the other to actually do a force push, lighting or Choke. Being able to actually do the force choke on someone and sling then off a high cliff would definitely get my geek on.

Hell, I already thought of a Wizard game where you do motions to cast spells, summon monsters and setup defense. Yea, you would totally look like a clown but you would have fun doing it.

I trully believe MS has stumbled on tech that definitely takes the Wii motion controls and totally surpasses it. Hell if MS is smart, they should demo the tech to every mall, shopping center they can. This tech would put MS on the map in Japan since they love stuff like this. They should partner with Jobs from Apple to kick start some creative thinking (yeah I know, never happen).

microsoft own the tech now, ok buddy

heehee

its pretty impressive alright but i have doubts. that racing game, how do you accelerate and brake? with your feet? can it measure small enough movement going towards and back from the camera to make that worthwhile. its normally on the shoulder buttons that are analogue. seems to me its like an eyetoy with some fancy bits added in like voice and face recognition. and we all know how much of a nightmare voice recognition is in reality, especially with the number of british accents around... im trying to think of a game that wont be very similar to a wii title that would benefit from this....

saying that, it if can do everything they say, ill be first in the queue, im a sucker for this kind of thing

Did I say they didn't own it? Doh guys don't get all silly on this. I think it´s great tech and if it is the same tech I think it is then it is cheap too (though not for MS !). My point was the software and as others have mentioned; expect it to be avatar trying on a new tie before you are Luke sky walker but t´s going to happen and it should be awsome when it does - even if you have to waggle your whole body and not just a wii mote!

Personally if feel a little silly acting out motions with a wii-mote I don't really fancy roleplaying in front of a tv!

- Next gen and new tech? you can't go beyond this its full body motion control
So MS are never going to update this till a holodeck appears in 100 years - and their next 20 console are going to use it - right ok.

Raya you nob head how can you improve on this tech, you tell me, oh wait you can't, nob head.

their pr sucks massive balls though , sony comes up with 250k online players mag then microsoft comes up with 300k players lol , i remmember when sony was launching the ps3 in france , microsoft sent a big bote saying xbox360 loves you at its side to sonys launch event , aples touch then comes zune, sonys singstar then 360's lips, i could state alot more u know this company is way more about a profit stategy than about inovation towards gaming.. its just amazing how microsoft pr's instigate though. and fan boys follow , but this is true with alot of companys.

but as for this tech yea it might be beneficial to the company as a whole but for gaming??? i mean what games are going to benefit from it?? if they want to get into the market then they should sell it bundled with the console, if anything there going to pave the way for sony to get such a device or even limbed their eye toy tech to the ps4 imagine that a controler imbeded to the system itself.. but now i think this is going to get nowere unless they bundle it and unless they make really inovative and eye catching games for this , i mean it cant possibly work with cod right?? the game isnt coded for that device.... so whats the point?? saying that there going to sell like hotcakes and that gamers are going to bite is a big understatement..

the conference was not so apealing , the only thing that i saw that was dope was alan wake, but halo this halo that its just played the hell out and mgs rising ?? what the hell is that? no info what so ever , those fans are in sonys side i belive most people that enjoy the 360 dont care about that game because of the storyline they most dont know , but who knows... and then theres final fantasy , the majority of that fan base is in japan some in the states but knowing hardcorefans of ff they would buy the game on what they think is the best system for ff... i would be suprise if they dont judge it 360 ps3 side to side u know...

if anything they should of anounced a handheld system , but its gona be too late for them now.. sony umdless psp go is aimed for digital dist making devopers make more of a profit to make games for that system , think about it who is in the forefront of digital dist ??? microsoft shit marketplace smashes on the ps store i thinkl they need to really advance in this aspect because by 2012-2013 digital dist will be more of a thing u know...

As a Nintendo fan I think this is amazing technology. It could be the future. Very impressive.

But like we all know, a console is only as good as its games. It will all depend on the software. What they've shown holds promise, but it's not done yet. There are practical issues to be solved.

And most of all, it needs time. When will this tech be out? If developers have just gotten their kits today, how long will it take for some decent games?? And how much of an audience will it reach if it costs €200?

It's of course a nice practice for Microsoft's next gen.

Looks great - how it'll work in real living rooms is another matter with clutter around etc - be interesting to see. Thing it is another device announced but probably not out til next year.

It's not going to replace the controller anytime soon. I have always found the motion controll sensing on the Wii to be gimicky and short lived when it comes to the entertainment factor. Natal is an opportunity to create a few interesting titles, but it won't drastically change the way most people play the major game genres simply because in-game object manipulation is complex. Motion control is great for interfacing with menus, pointing, and short range movement but changing directions, moving over distances, simple repetitive actions, even cycling through inventory becomes a challenge compared with a few presses of a button.

Of course MS and Molyneux haven't created a more advanced AI than what already exists in games, but the interesting thing about this tech is the new possible interactions it could offer. If Natal is as good as it seems then we should be able to (and it's pure speculation at this point):
- do away with all the signing in faff (imagine playing RB/GH with some mates, picking a guitar and the game just recognizes who you are, what instrument you're playing, and puts your instrument lane in front of you)
- have characters that actually look at you in the eyes and respond to voice commands. Perhaps you could even shout and scare NPCs or be soft and charm them, give them the finger or a kiss, a slap in the face (I wished for that so many times) or a pat on the head (perfect for Fable)...
- make for new, and finally interesting, quicktime events (ducking, jumping, throwing, grabbing ropes and actually dodging bullets...)
- populate games with avatars and characters that look (somewhat) like you and your friends automatically as well as character related NPCs like the father in Fallout 3.
- easier RTS unit selection and movement by dragging selection areas with the hand and 'pushing' armies etc...
- realistic sport interactions (boxing, hitting or catching the ball during football penalties etc...) and slightly more interesting mini-games (i.e Fable's blacksmith, woodcutting and bartending jobs)

Obviously there will be an onslaught of Wii-like stuff/rubbish (nintendogs, Wii fit/tennis/bowling/..., all those ridiculous accessories) and I don't believe for one moment that Natal's 'full body control' will ever completely replace a real controller (apart for all the aforementioned Wii rubbish). But as a complement to the controller, this could make for much more engaging game experiences. What I really want to know is:
- how precise the movement tracking is, especially when it comes to finger tracking: could the hand be used to move things about in an inventory screen, control level maps like you control pictures on an iphone? Can it track fingers and not just limbs?
- how bad is the latency between physical action and game representation? How demanding are all the features on the XBox's Hardware?
- will it be able to track head motion like Johnny Chung Lee's awesome Wii head tracking demos?
- what kind of setting up is involved (specifically for voice recogition)
- will Microsoft keep the device's price below $100 (which is already too expensive) as mentioned in the Arstechnica article?
(http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/...

Exciting news nonetheless and if this thing really works, all I'll need is a 3D screen and some talented developers to put it all together in immersive gaming awesomeness. Next stop is the Holodeck indeed...

If they can find a way to bundle this with their lower end console for under £150 this could be a huge mainstream hit. The two big questions however are: does it work and what are the games and support going to be like?