Tech Analysis: Forza Motorsport 4

By Richard Leadbetter Published 18 October, 2011

Including a comparison with GT5 2.0.

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Turn 10 is back and Forza Motorsport is better than ever before - bigger, newer, shinier and with a whole host of technical achievements to enjoy both in terms of the visuals and the core driving simulation.

Upon first loading up the game, you may be forgiven for thinking that little has changed from 2009's Forza Motorsport 3. The revelatory boost in the quality of the car models and environments between the last two games simply couldn't be replicated to anything like the same scale - and we're probably right in thinking that the new game shares much with its predecessor in terms of environments and existing car models. The Xbox 360 is now a mature platform, developers are highly familiar with the architecture and it's safe to say that generational leaps in quality are no longer possible.

However, the iterative improvements Turn 10 has made to its engine are hugely impressive nonetheless. From a rendering perspective, the game still operates at native 720p, but the locked 2x multi-sample anti-aliasing of the previous Forza titles has been altered to allow for an improved 4x MSAA implementation which we think is tied into the game mode selected: time-trial gives better edge-smoothing, while the more processing intensive race modes seem to be using the same 2x solution.

4xaa
2xaa

On the left we see 4x MSAA during a time trial race (the edge of the windscreen gives us our best look at the multi-sampling). On the right we see much the same scene but with the additional overhead of CPU cars to process - here anti-aliasing is the same 2x implementation we saw in previous Forza titles.

While we would have loved a locked 4x in all game modes, the chances are that the processing cycles simply weren't there to spare. In single-player we've seen up to 12 cars being supported so far, while online moves that up to 16. There are also further modes available such as the Track Day, which dynamically generates new cars and allocates them around the track, effectively giving you an "unlimited" amount of rivals to pass. Whichever way you slice it, that's a substantial improvement over the eight cars supported in the last game.

There are no major surprises from Forza 4 in terms of the performance - Turn 10 has always targeted a locked 60 frames per second with v-sync engaged, and the new game is no exception to the rule. Below, in our first 60FPS streaming video, we demonstrate a selected montage of action from six different races. The idea here is to give the in-game engine a bit of a workout by switching between views, causing a few crashes and seeing if anything at all will cause that frame-rate to take a hit.

The performance profile is identical to Forza Motorsport 3. Remarkably, the engine does not drop a single frame during general gameplay and never loses v-sync, meaning that there is absolutely no tearing whatsoever. The only time 60FPS is ever compromised is when the player switches cameras: there's the small chance that you'll drop a frame - a singular frame, invisible to the human eye.

For Turn 10 to have achieved this level of fidelity in its graphics, physics and AI and for it to consistently meet that 16.66ms rendering budget is a milestone of engineering on the Xbox 360 platform. For it to be achieved with a significant boost in the amount of cars being simulated is phenomenal.

Performance analysis of Forza Motorsport 4 across a number of circuits, showcasing a range of different car types.

However it is clear that the developers needed to compromise in certain areas in order to make this all possible. In last week's Rage Face-Off we saw how id software dynamically dropped horizontal resolution on both platforms in order to maintain a pretty solid 60FPS. Turn 10 also appear to be employing a load balancing mechanism which is a touch more subtle: while gameplay operates with a locked 60Hz update, rear view mirrors and reflections on the car are decoupled from the main renderer and refresh at arbitrary frame-rates: dropping to 30 frames per second if things are really being pushed.

These are worthwhile, if occasionally distracting compromises and it illustrates that the developers are perhaps finally reaching the limits of what it can do from a technical perspective on the Xbox 360. Bearing in mind that the engine is now capable of handling twice as many cars as it did in the last game in combination with the new lighting, it is easily forgivable.

There are some other changes too, specifically in terms of environmental detail: while all of tracks from Forza 3 (bar two) have made their way across to the new game, the team have taken the opportunity to "remix" the circuits slightly. Detail appears to have been removed in some places, and added in others. You can't help but wonder whether this had something to do with the optimisation effort.

forza3-env1
forza4-env1
forza3-env2
forza4-env2

While Turn 10 has included a significant amount of content from its previous games, it's clear that a great deal of work has been done on the circuits in particular: a great deal of detail has been swapped in and out. On the left we have Forza 3 shots, on the right we see FM4 equivalents.

Similar to its predecessor (and indeed, GT5), Turn 10 again opts to cap frame-rate to 30 frames per second in the replays and the extra rendering time gives the developer the ability to pull back on its LODs and allow very high detail artwork to be utilised in real-time. Just like the gameplay, that frame-rate is absolutely rock-solid, and the quality of the presentation is remarkable. Perhaps some higher quality motion blur could have helped to give a smoother look to the visuals, but the overall look of so many cars running at such a high detail level (especially in the "fantasy" environments) does look quite beautiful, and it's as good an excuse as any to check out the enhancements to the lighting system that the developer has introduced with the new game.

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Comments (119) Latest comment 7 months ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • GamesConnoisseur #1 7 months ago

    Interesting article, I owns both games and pretty chuffed to be able to enjoy the best of either, there are lots to like and also quibbles that annoys us. Such as loadings in GT5 and tearings but both are so much smoother in Forza but not as much diversity in weather etc.

    I m leaning more to smoother handlings and locked 60 fps as something that more pleasurable but each can make up their mind or indeed other factors like driving wheels. But to say Forza 4 or GT5 2.0 is a complete loser/fake etc just gonna show you up.

  • TheBiGW #2 7 months ago

    I think Forza 4 is the most technically accomplished game released so far this year for 360. I was blown away by Rage but I think Forza just about pips it for me. Well done, and can't wait to see what you have in store for the next generation!

  • Der_tolle_Emil #3 7 months ago

    The attraction sequences do look absolutely stunning. Technically Forza 4 is a marvelous game it seems but I start to question whether Turn10 are focusing on the right features. It's hard to appreciate Pirelli data if you have never been in a race car, which should be true for most of us. They also say that the handling is so much better than Forza 3 - does that not mean that Forza 3 was not realistic? Why skip wet races then just because you cannot get the physics absolutely right? They haven't been pitch perfect in the first 3 games either - however, noone will notice.

    This is the strength of GT - focusing on things people actually 'understand' and can relate to. Don't get me wrong, I love Forza 4 - but sometimes you really have to cut down the realism just a bit and add in a tiny bit of fun.

  • parrapa #4 7 months ago

    Why is there nobody in the crowds on Forza 4?

  • Cobalt_Jackal #5 7 months ago

    Wow the changing/dynamic weather conditions in Forza 4 are fantastic!, I think in this vid it changes from 29°C to 30°C -_-
    Edited by Cobalt_Jackal at 18/10/11 @ 09:39

  • berelain #6 7 months ago

    As much as I wish for dynamic weather and day / night cycles in Forza 4, I can't help but think that Turn 10 has focussed on the most important stuff, rather than the most flashy stuff. When the cars feel this realistic - and they really do; anyone who says otherwise clearly hasn't played the game with all asissts turned off and simulation handling on - and the game looks so spectacular across the board (not just in places, like GT5) I can appreciate why Turn 10 took they path they did. It might be disappointing for some, but I'd prefer they get the core racing feel perfect than muck about with extra additions at the expense of it.

    Of course, if someone could combine Forza, Gran Turismo and Shift 2, the world would never need another racer. But that's probably not going to happen...

    And, parrapa, there are people in the Forza 4 crowds...

  • Quint2020 #7 7 months ago

    I'm a big petrol head and love racing games, I bought a PS3 for GT5 and was very disappointed, most of the cars are just models imported from a bloody PS2 game, all of the engine notes sound exactly the same, when an RX7 sounds exactly the same as a Honda Civic then there's clearly something wrong.

    Needless to say I sold the PS3 and stuck to Forza 3.

  • 43n1m4 #8 7 months ago

    I've been playing this most of the night, and I have to say, as a veteran Forza player, that this version is definitely improved in many subtle, but important, ways. Better handling, better visuals, more features and more fun. The new difficulty levels, and the fact that rewind act as an assist that can be turned off for more winnings, as well as the revamped career, make this game one to get for both casual and serious car lovers.
    Even the wireless speed wheel feels quite good, although there are a few UI niggles when using it. But for driving, its a good alternative for those of us who can't be bothered with space consuming full wheel setup, and would like to have something a little more realistic than the usual controller.

  • barchetta #9 7 months ago

    Hadn't spent much time looking at GT5 but I'd say I prefer the 'look' it creates over Forza4, from that comparison at least. Forza4 does look fantastic (and with still having an MS wheel somewhere would likely be the one I'd go for), but it looked a little garish over the more balanced, nuanced look of GT5.

  • NotSoSlim #10 7 months ago

    Don't get how anyone can buy a console for one game..baffling

    Plus there are many other games worth playing so you don't feel like it being a waste.

  • Rogueywon #11 7 months ago

    A few points after spending a few days with the game:

    - The game in general looks amazing. Under "normal" gameplay conditions, it will almost always look better than Gran Turismo 5. This isn't actually a technical point - it's because of the heavy slant towards "non-premium" cars in GT5 (which are basically direct ports of the models from the PS2-era GT4). When 75% of the field for most races is made up of non-premium cars, you end up with a game that's surprisingly ugly once you get away from the promotional videos. GT5 is also really inconsistent in the level of detail and general "prettiness" of its tracks. Nurburgring looks jaw-dropping, particularly in wet weather - but Tsukuba Circuit and most of the city circuits look like PS2-upscales. Forza 4 may not quite hit the highs of the GT5 Nurburgring, but it's a lot more consistent.

    - The framerate point is really important. It might not be apparent to rookie players, but when you're racing the higher end cars (cerainly anything from the game's top two classes) on the more technical circuits, you need to be making some incredibly fine control adjustments - and for that, 60fps is an absolute godsend. The rear view mirror does drop framerate - a lot - certainly more than this article implies - and it's quite distracting until you get used to it. It's not a game-breaker, though. At any rate, the contrast with the EA/NFS titles, which feel massively less responsive, is quite shocking.

    - The New York circuit is gone. THANK GOD. It might be pretty, but it's one of the most joyless, miserable tracks in racing game history, from a gameplay point of view. The new tracks are much better - but there aren't really enough of them. I really do wish that all of the big "career-mode" racing franchises would give more attention to the number of tracks. I've put hundreds of hours of play into Forza 3 and GT4 (though not 5 - I just hated the special events too much) - and it's always the lack of track variety that's made me stop in the end. I'd happily lose 10% or so of the car roster (particularly where there are a lot of highly similar cars, like GT5's Japanese tuning cars or Forza 4's 60s/70s US muscle cars) and gain a couple more tracks in compensation.

    - Forza 4's AI is way more convincing that GT5's, particularly when it ramps the difficulty up. When it's in rookie-mode, it often feels as though it isn't making enough of an effort to avoid collisions, but things get much better at the higher levels.

    - The other big thing that Forza 4 has (and GT5 doesn't) is suit of options for creating and trading custom paint-jobs. It's just a pity that the creation tools aren't more advanced - and particularly galling that you can't import images from a PC. But there are some amazingly talented people out there and some of the custom designs already available via storefronts are incredible, particularly given the toolset they were made with.

  • Arwin #12 7 months ago

    Yeah, lucky enough to have both consoles, both games and both wheels here also. Graphically, Forza 4 now really looks better in some cases, and certainly the overal image quality is generally better (I did notice particularly the black cursh though, can be quite annoying with cars you have to overtake at high speeds literally hiding in the shadows).

    The lighting for GT5 is still better in general, and the tracks that do have variable weather and day-night are superb in GT5, but Forza's quality per pixel and solid framerate more make up for it in many cases.

    The physics, especially now after GT5's spec 2 update, are clearly in GT's favor now. There is no version of GT5's "realistic" spin recovery setting - Forza 4's Simulation setting basically equates to Low for GT5, where GT5 can still go to 'realistic'. Here and there Forza 4 also still makes the mistake of being able to break out the rear when applying too much throttle in fourth gear in many cars that this just isn't realistic for, and now being able to directly compare these cars (and also some of my own track experience) it just stands out a lot.

    Still there are some significant improvements that I appreciate here too, such as that Forza 4's AI now knowing I am beside them in a turn which was missing in Forza 3 (and which was a welcome addition in GT5 also).

    Audio in Forza is much meatier in general, which is cool, though it comes at a sacrifice of having all cars sound more or less the same and only the modifications of the car really changing the sound most of the time.

    And of course much respect for the flawless 60fps. It really does make for a pleasant driving experience.

    Both are just out though, but as said here, both games are great, and I'm glad I can play them both. For me Forza 4's Rivals are what Special Events are for me in GT5 - a much nicer way to level up quickly. ;)

    Shame by the way that the side-by-side video didn't show cockpit view.

  • Otis_Inf #13 7 months ago

    This article reads more like an advertorial than a real article.

  • bionic #14 7 months ago

    Forza 4/GT5 comparison gallery

    GT5 looks better. Forze has too much contrast. The in car view looks better on GT5 also.

  • Lucodeath #15 7 months ago

    Have not got Forza 4 yet but still play on GT5 which is great but what were Polyphony doing for 6 years?
    Edited by Lucodeath at 18/10/11 @ 09:32

  • Spydy #16 7 months ago

    I think there's some fairly big omissions in the comparison:

    - GT5 can display at 1080p 2xMSAA 60fps (albeit with torn frames here and there), Forza 4 is locked at 720p
    - No 3D mode for Forza 4
    - GT5 engine is 5 years old

    That being said Forza 4 is just a great, fun racer. Something GT has well and truly lost.

  • berelain #17 7 months ago

    @Lucodeath "what were Polyphony doing for 6 years?"

    That's the million-dollar question.

  • FearCrads #18 7 months ago

    Forza 4 gives a much better sence of speed than GT5.

  • NotSoSlim #19 7 months ago

    Probably building an engine on a console they probably thought could do more than it could.

  • TheNonk #20 7 months ago

    Forza has a big, shiny sun in the sky. How very americanised. That's about all I can spot in terms of a difference.

  • Widge #21 7 months ago

    I'm sure I read on a DF article that GT5 used MSAA...

  • Widge #22 7 months ago

    No. You are right. QAA at 1080p with MSAA at 720p.

    I ended up playing at 720p on mine as my Philips set has some 1080p jitters unfortunately.

  • dr_zoidthrob #23 7 months ago

    I'm really enjoying the game, apart from the terrible AI. I'm not sure what Turn 10 have done to it, but getting knocked off the track on the straight run up the hill to 130R at Suzuka while quite nicely in front is just not on.

    I hit rewind to see what happens next and the car that hit me suddenly veered to the left, crashed and rolled over a few times. It's not the most fun AI I've ever driven against.

    The start line melee is no fun either - it's impossible to get a clean race.

    EDIT: I'm also yet to actually lose a race. Once you get out in front the AI seems to lose all speed
    Edited by dr_zoidthrob at 18/10/11 @ 09:55

  • Der_tolle_Emil #24 7 months ago

    Wow, 9 negs. Apparently I wasn't making myself clear. I am not trying to say Forza is bad in any way, just saying that I understand why some people might prefer GT5 over it. I love Forza for what it is, but being a perfectionist myself I know that sometimes you start to sacrifice a bit too much to achieve that.

  • chris_ace #25 7 months ago

    Post deleted at 11:55:13 13-12-2011

  • technicianTed #26 7 months ago

    Enjoyed reading this article, forza 4 is definitely the best race game around.
    Not bad for a 6 year old console.

  • Monsieur_Blade #27 7 months ago

    @dr_zoidthrob

    What difficulty level have you got the AI set on?

  • T3TSUO #28 7 months ago

    It's not about graphics, it's about physics and being an iracing fan I can see GT5 is the clear winner. Forza looks pretty as does GT5 to a degree but it's easy to see GT5 is using up more cycles on a superior car handling and physic model.

    *edit* on closer analysis. I have to question why Forza exhibits at total lack of front tyre grip yet under-steers no matter what car is driven? that shouldn't happen and then goes into snap over-steer. The tyres should "unload" GT5 is the only other sim besides iracing to do this.
    Forza spent huge portions of the race with 2 tyres on grass at speed with no penalty in grip. That definitely shouldn't happen. Again GT5 gets it right suggesting tyre to road simulation not emulation.
    Edited by T3TSUO at 18/10/11 @ 11:08

  • Beano #29 7 months ago

    From my own observations on my own 55" Bravia HDTV, GT5 looks better, sharper and more detailed in 1080p. FM4 looks great also but slightly muddy and aliased compared to FM4 in 720p. In-game car models in FM4 can't compete with GT5's premium cars and lighting on cars in FM4 make them look cheap and artificial somehow.
    But FM4 wins when it comes to having a solid frame rate and no tearing.

    That's just graphics - FM4 seems a little boring to me after 6-7 hours with in. Car physics, even with all assists turned off, is lifeless compared to GT5 and career mode is dull and there is no sense of progression or goals. FM4 aims to make itself accessible to everybody but the downside is it gets a bit boring and lacks challenge.
    Edited by Beano at 18/10/11 @ 11:03

  • GitchiManidoo #30 7 months ago

    Get Dirt 3 for rally, f1 2011 for f1, mario kart for karts and there probabbly is nascar game as well. More content doesn't mean better quality.

  • dr_zoidthrob #31 7 months ago

    @Monsieur_Blade As far as I can tell, there isn't a difficulty setting for World Tour mode - it's adaptive AI. As for the driver aids, all I have is the cornering line, everything else is switched off (I'm even using 'simulation' steering).

  • mattius30 #32 7 months ago

    Everytime I read a DF article I am always left with a question, which I am finally going to ask you good people. Would it better to have both my PS3 and 360 set to 720p resolutions instead of 1080p? I am curious to know what other gamers here have their consoles set to...

  • mattius30 #33 7 months ago

    thanks lollage, I am going to do my own experiment and mess around with the resolutions! Will be interesting to see if GT5 is less teary at 720.

  • Beano #34 7 months ago

    "The 360 can upscale all games to 1080p, so you can leave it set on that.

    The PS3 cannot upscale all games to 1080p and setting it to 1080p can have a detrimental effect on a few titles."

    Setting 360 to 1080p can also cause performance issues (tearing) in a few games but I recommend 1080p for both consoles since it only causes problems in a few titles.

  • emula #35 7 months ago

    the comparison gallery between GT5 and FM4 is distorted because only in time attack mode (like as in the comparison) FM4 use AA4x . BUT in all other cases use AA2x and there is much more aliasing than GT5.

    DF fail
    Edited by emula at 18/10/11 @ 11:25

  • Der_tolle_Emil #36 7 months ago

    @Beano: Setting 360 to 1080p can also cause performance issues (tearing) in a few games but I recommend 1080p for both consoles since it only causes problems in a few titles.

    Do you know which ones? I've never heard of that before, unless we are talking about using the VGA cable, which does indeed force some games to use a different resolution instead of the xbox upscaling (I guess the upscaler is fixed to 720p/1080p and not the VGA resolutions between?). The first Dead Rising is a well known game for doing that, it tears like hell if set to 1366x768. Haven't heard about the same thing happening when upscaling to 1080p but I never tried playing in 720p anyway.

    Upscaling is weird anyway, you really have to experiment. My old TV was 1366x768 but I never got a VGA cable. Setting the xbox to upscale 720 to 1080i and having the TV downscaling again to its native resolution gave a much better picture than setting the xbox to 720p and having the TV upscale to its native resolution. In theory the latter should be better since you only need to scale the image once but 1080i still gave a much clearer image overall.

  • funkateer #37 7 months ago

    "it doesn't use MSAA. It uses QAA."

    QAA is a form of MSAA.

  • Diomedes #38 7 months ago

    GT5 2.0 just looks better, is more realistic, still has more content, 3D mode, rally, more players online.....

    Good try with your usually based comparisions chum, but you still dont get us wrong.

  • rudedudejude #39 7 months ago

    In summary: We need to get to the next gen pronto! Current consoles simply can't take the pace that devs can create for now!

    BF3, Rage, F4, etc etc.

  • Beano #40 7 months ago

    "Do you know which ones?"

    Well, basicly the higher resolution, the more work the scaler has to do - but only a problem in a few titles (also with HDMI). I remember minor tearing issues in RE5 and Star Wars Unleashed 1 in 1080p which disappeared in 720p. I'm sure there are more titles since it related to the hardware scaler.

  • 43n1m4 #41 7 months ago

    This is becoming the usual GT(x) vs. Forza (x) thread where the same old tired arguments are recycled.
    IMO the games aren't as similar as people make them to be, and comparing them on basis of the things that are common, really just takes focus away from the things that are different.

  • berelain #42 7 months ago

    @Diomedes "GT5 2.0 just looks better, is more realistic, still has more content, 3D mode, rally, more players online....."

    The problem is, you're right, GT5 has all of those things - some of the time. F4 is more consistent looking, and has attention to detail that GT5 doesn't (car damage, anyone?), and whilst GT5 has loads more content, its so difficult to access and hidden away behind cumbersome menu's that accessing it can be a chore, rather than fun. I never found 3D to really help in racing games, but thats a personal preference, and GT5's rally mode is awful - I'd much rather play DiRT. Don't get me wrong, I like GT5, but sometimes it feels like I'm fighting the game rather than enjoying it.

    Actually, i'm surprised theres no mention in the article about how Forza handles decals. Since you can apply hundreds of layers of custom artwork to cars to personalise them (as well as all the other physical mods) I'd have though that would have been worthy of a mention, given the added graphical strain that would likely put on the console.

  • sfp_noodle #43 7 months ago

    From personal experience, Forza performs better on the track. It's locked at 60fps and has zero screen tearing which is a big deal to me since excessive screen tearing really puts me off in a game. Forza also has much better online and social features which makes the game more accessible and user friendly when compared to the muddled hud of GT5.

    On the other hand, GT5 looks better. The city and rally tracks look amazing. The in-car views look stunning and easilly outshine the interiors found in Forza. Not just that, but the career mode in GT5 offers a hell of a lot more variety whilst Forza has been recycling events from Forza 2 and 3 which is lazy. I found myself getting bored in Forza 3 after around 8-9 hours whilst there was always something new opening up in GT5 be it a special event or a new tier of racing events.

    Night time racing. Turn 10 had 2 years to implement this as they knew that Polyphony Digital was adding it to their game a long time ago. Why they left it out is beyond me. Forza fans are missing out on a lot in that respect as racing at night time is a real thrill, especially on the Nurburgring circuit with a high performance supercar. Racing at night time with dynamic weather is even more thrilling.

    For me there just isn't a big enough improvement from Forza 3 to 4. I appreciate the improvements Turn 10 have made to the graphics engine and tweaks to the physics but a lot of it feels recycled without any real NEW content to compliment it. A lot of people complained about GT5's lack of content. I find that baffling when you consider Forza 4 still doesn't have night time racing, dynamic weather, rally racing, formula 1 cars, Nascar or kart racing. That's a hell of a lot of content to leave out.

    It also seems that PD have improved GT5 more in 11 months than Turn 10 have improved Forza in 2 years. GT5 spec 2.0 is a completely different game to when the original game launched. I'm not saying Froza 4 is a bad game, but I am saying that it is a lazy one when you consider it's main rival has so many features locked down as standard whilst Forza has yet to implement them.

    I can understand people being upset with what I've said, but it's partly my opinion and partly fact (night racing, dynamic weather, kart/nascar/rally racing). Even the most die-hard Forza fan cannot deny that Turn 10 could and SHOULD have added a lot more. You only have to read the comments in the Forza 4 review where everyone is questioning the 9/10 when the review doesn't exactly shower the game with praise or shed any real light on the problems fans had with the previous game.

  • TheNonk #44 7 months ago

    "I have to question why Forza exhibits at total lack of front tyre grip yet under-steers no matter what car is driven?"

    This is what killed Forza for me and why I've not been back since F2. The under-steer is annoying and completely unrealistic.

  • Bigmac1910 #45 7 months ago

    It's funny to me, that everything is compared, except the physics model. Which I feel is much more realistic in GT5. Are we driving here or looking a pretty pictures.

  • Moz #46 7 months ago

    Just loving this at the moment, it's so much more fun then GT5. The menus are better, the sense of speed seems better, the AI seems more natural and challenging. And I was general shocked to find that the tuning options are deeper and more varied too!!

    Forza 4 as turned me from staunch defender of the GT series to a lover of Forza. Will be interesting to see how/if Polyphony fight to regain their crown net gen, cos best racing sim of this gen (for me at least) goes to Forza 4.

  • BBIAJ #47 7 months ago

    I find that setting the PS3 to output in 1080p makes everything look blurry as shit, unless the game is not being upscaled.

  • Bigglesworth #48 7 months ago

    An honest question: In the page 3 comparison video, it appears that Forza is replaying a race while GT5 is being played 'live'. Elsewhere it's stated that Forza displays replays at 30fps, yet the the data in the video shows 60fps. What's going on?

  • Darren #49 7 months ago

    I think Forza 4 is a superb game and certainly the most enjoyable racing simulation I've played to date. While it might not look as lush as Gran Turismo 5 at it's very best, it does deliver a far more consistent visual experience IMO that is both less distracting and a joy to play, thanks to the flawless 60 fps framerate. The menus (plus relatively brief loading times) also add to the slickness and don't try to suck the life out of the experience like Gran Turismo 5's clunky, cumbersome menus do.

    I can't wait to see what Turn 10 can do with the next Forza game on the Xbox 360's successor when they have superior hardware to play around with. Also I'd love to see the Forza games make their way onto the PC where the extra graphical and processor power would really enhance the experience beyond what is possible on the 360.

  • Kestana #50 7 months ago

    Forza 4 has a better sense of speed than Forza 3 and GT5. That's the biggest difference I've noticed and I appreciate that the most. My only real caveat for Forza 4 is the lack of any good steering wheel that's readily available. I use a G25 with my PC racers and Gran Turismo. I'm stuck with a Logitech Drive FX and MS Racing Wheel for Forza. Fanatec does not ship to where I live, and even if they did, the shipping cost would probably be astronomical -- I'd rather be purchasing a Gorilla Customs wheel set instead for the price.

    Microsoft, Logitech, if you are by any bloody chance reading this... GIVE US A GOOD WHEEL, or at least the Logitech G25/27 for Forza 4. We need accessible wheels and Fanatec ones aren't easily available! It's like trying to get the best hookers in town but they're never available to pleasure you.

    To that guy that asked if anyone would actually buy a console just for a racing game, that would be car lovers who can actually afford cars. It'd be silly to assume that we wouldn't be able to afford a $300 console and an $80 game (I bought the limited edition GT5 with the neat motor info book) yet be able to purchase a $20000 sedan, $20000 being rather at the lower end of the spectrum. Most of us looking for a thrill, 1) can't go to jail because we have dependents, or simply wishes not to go to jail; 2) do not have a track nearby; 3) don't have a banging ride (yet...). I believe the price of admission to get a console and a copy of the game isn't too expensive, relatively speaking.

    P.S. Steering on "simulation" mode in Forza 4 is just mind-blowing! Also, has anyone else tried the multiscreen setup on Forza 4? I've tried it a while back with a few friends on Forza 3 and it was totally bangin'! It's just a shame our TVs aren't the same.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #51 7 months ago

    @Kestana: I've always wanted to try the multiscreen setup, but I think it requires a disc for every of the three consoles? I could come up with three consoles but not with three discs.

  • Darren #52 7 months ago

    @Bigglesworth - I've just watched the video you're referring to and both are showing real-time gameplay from the bumper camera (I think). Presumably both are running at 720p too. Forza's replays are locked at 30 fps so if you're seeing 60 fps footage from that game then it is from actual gameplay not a replay.

  • shinesevens #53 7 months ago

    Really surprised the tech analysis doesn't cover sound (!) The engine noises in Forza 4 are excellent. You can hear the superchargers sucking in great gulps of air in the McLaren SLR, you can distinguish the throaty roar of a Lambo V12 and the high pitched wail of a Ferrari V12. Whilst some of GT5's cars sound great (LFA) some sound very thin and completely different from the real car they are supposedly based on.

    Disappointed the day-night cycle isn't there in Forza 4, it would seem the inflexible lightning model won the day. One of GT5's stand-out features is the time-change races, so atmospheric.

    Lack of a decent wheel for under Ģ100 for Forza is a big let down too. Sorry the wireless thing does not cut the mustard, I need force feedback to feel what is going on. I really wish that MS would support the Logitech GT wheels, they offer a great balance of cost / performance.

  • Savatage #54 7 months ago

    I caved and got this yesterday. Amazing game, astounding that they managed to get visuals of this quality running at a flawless 60fps. I honestly haven't been this impressed with a driving sim since GT4 on the PS2.

    @Bigglesworth, Yeah, what Darren said. There's an option to switch the HUD off in-game.

  • Bigglesworth #55 7 months ago

    Thanks Darren (edit: & Savatage). I was puzzled by the seeming lack of HUD and the constant poping-up of the "use Y to rewind race" message. Looking at screenshots though, I see the HUD elements are quite small and tucked into the four corners, and it seems the 'rewind' message appears whenever you hit another car. Fair enough.
    Edited by Bigglesworth at 18/10/11 @ 13:28

  • Lunastra78 #56 7 months ago

    I have greatly enjoyed GT5 so far, and if Forza 4 had been available for PS3 I would have bought it too.

    In other words, screw the fanboys. ;)

  • Badassbab #57 7 months ago

    This is the way I see it-

    FM3/4 is the better experiance most of the time. Locked 60fps, no noticable screen tear and looks and plays great.

    But when comparing to GT5 when it's looking and performing at it's very, very best (which is sort of rare) FM3/4 falls short.

  • ronuds #58 7 months ago

    It's funny to me, that everything is compared, except the physics model. Which I feel is much more realistic in GT5. Are we driving here or looking a pretty pictures.

    Are you a race car driver? If you are, how can you tell which game is replicating the handling best - especially when in a game there is no fear of crashing?

    I don't know how you'd do that. There are probably a handful of people in the world qualified to do so and, no offence, but I doubt you're one of them.

  • mrblonde #59 7 months ago

    With RAGE and forza 4 visually bettering uncharted and GT5 respectively, i think any lingering claims that Sony's ps3 had to being more powerful than the 360 has completely evaporated this last month

  • kirankara #60 7 months ago

    Bit extreme ronuds, I can tell you several car fanatics I know, who would be offering opinions about car physics and handling , and how these two games compare to reality. They know a lot about cars, engineering etc etc

    me personally havent got a frickin clue, as I care so little about racing and cars, but i am just intrigued by the tech aspects of these articles.
    Edited by kirankara at 18/10/11 @ 14:40

  • ronuds #61 7 months ago

    People can "claim" to know if one game has more "realistic" handling than the other, but the truth of the matter is real life and video games are a long way off from one another no matter how you slice it. You're not going to drive a car the same IRL as you would in a game either, because in a game there is no fear.

    Which game you have more fun playing is the most important thing. I've driven cars IRL that I've driven in games and I couldn't tell you how closely they've matched the handling - mainly because I've never driven a car IRL like I had nothing to worry about. There are too many factors to take into account for me to believe the vast majority of people who claim otherwise.

    Obviously some games -- Forza and GT for example -- will be much closer to reality than a game like GT4, but I doubt there's this vast difference between GT and Forza that people claim there is.

    Not only that, but Digital Foundry are software gurus. How are they at all qualified to judge physics models of a Lamborghini from one game to the next? They're not - and I doubt most of the people who claim to know are either.
    Edited by ronuds at 18/10/11 @ 15:01

  • stu9898 #62 7 months ago

    Never played GT5 (apart from prologue) so can't compare what this looks like on the actual detailed models compare to FM4, but to be honest I can't imagine playing a game that has highly impressive models and last gen ones driving on the same tracks, same with in car views. Fair enough that’s only talking visuals and I believe GT5 is way more than how it looks. I can't understand why a developer such as Polyphony Digital who have always been so passionate about their work, would release a game that could look plain ugly in places and amazing in others.

    I think Turn 10 have done an amazing job on the 360 and didn't expect ever to have a racer looking this good on the 6 year old hardware.

    As I said before I haven't played GT5 so am sure there are many sides to the GT5 vs F4 argument and games like Uncharted 2 (and what I've seen of 3), Killzone 3 etc have made my doubt the 360 had anything left to offer, but it’s been good to see developers still getting more out of the 360 with new titles such as GOW3 and F4.

  • kirankara #63 7 months ago

    @ronuds

    I agree with lot of what you're saying, but Surely certain principles about oversteer, understeer etc are just basic facts of physics , and if you know enough about cars , engineering, and racing, you have some idea of how a car should react in certain circumstances.

  • DoctorFraud #64 7 months ago

    Forza 4 makes GT5 look last gen, and makes it feel last-last gen. It is unrivalled

  • darc #65 7 months ago

    Has there been a review of the GT5 2.0 release yet, or will there be one?

    It's amazing how subjective things get when you look at two racing games, particularly when both are so good.

    Personally, I prefer the handling in GT5 just slightly over Forza 3 (I don't own Forza 4 and have not yet downloaded GT5v2.) Sadly, the sounds and weird collisions undermine much of this.

    As for graphics, I wasn't a huge fan of Forza 3's "painterly" look, but I did like that it was so coherent. Once your eyes adjusted to the style, everything kind of fit together. GT5 is a strange mix of content some of which looks good-not-great, and some of which looks amazing, to the effect that the "amazing" is sometimes as distracting as the "meh". The whole concept of mixing premium and standard car models in one scene is the plainest- but not the only - example of the problem. Personally I think it's a really weird design decision.

    It's interesting to me that there are people who prefer Forza's physics and GT's graphics. Again, very subjective.

    I bought GT5 mainly for the stereoscopic 3D and Move head tracking, but found the implementation of both pretty lacking. Then I just started to find the menu layouts and overall presentation to be so annoying (seemed like I was driving about 10% of the time the game was running) that I shelved the game altogether. I'm really hoping v2.0 improves matters - especially the menus and car selection.

    BUT it's hard not to be tempted to shell out for Forza 4, if only for functional head-tracking (an effect I really do appreciate in cockpit view) and the availability of the speedwheel. I own a full wheel but I almost never set it up and the speedwheel looks like a happy medium vs. gamepad racing. I wish Sony had a comparable product. (And even if I don't buy one, I prefer the XBox gamepad vs. the PS3 gamepad for racing games.)
    Edited by darc at 18/10/11 @ 15:24

  • ronuds #66 7 months ago

    @kirankara

    Sure - I agree with that. But how accurately can you really replicate the feel of racing from your couch? There are so many feelings and sensations that are missing that would be absolutely necessary, imo, toward discerning which is more "real" than the other.

    darc's comment above is perfect - he "prefers" the handling of GT. There's nothing wrong with that. He's not claiming to know if the Bugatti in GT is "more realistic" feeling than the same in Forza. Mainly because the odds that he's driven a Bugatti are damn near 0%.

  • darc #67 7 months ago

    "Mainly because the odds that he's driven a Bugatti are damn near 0%."

    Sadly, the odds I will ever drive a Bugatti are damn near 0%.

    And yes, I agree that you can only go so far in imparting "realism" to a player who is sitting on a couch, feeling nothing in the way of road noise, lateral G's, etc. Not to mention that even the best of the force feedback wheels - should you even be using one - are actually presenting very crude information back to your hands. (I remember how excited I was when I bought my first FF wheel, looking forward to feeling changes in steering over tarmac, gravel, mud, etc... and I also remember how disappointed I was... and I've yet to experience anything quite like what I was hoping for then.)

    It's more about which game "feels right" so I can get on with having some fun. In case of GT5 vs. Forza, they're both quite good, so for me it's a pretty subtle call either way.
    Edited by darc at 18/10/11 @ 15:40

  • ronuds #68 7 months ago

    Don't feel so bad, darc - you're certainly not alone! :p

  • kirankara #69 7 months ago

    @ronuds. Oh I agree with calling either realistic, is obviously missing a whole bunch of sensations and information that would be necessary to represent reality . My recent experience at Mercedes museum on racing simulator would be perfect example of that. Nothing in a video game or no amount of knowledge of cars can prepare you for the feel of a race track flying past you and the cars back end flying out as you take a corner etc etc. My point was just about basic handling of two games, based on knowledge of cars, engineering and physics in certain situations. You can ascertain a certain level of realism from those things at least.( if you know what you're talking about, which I have no idea, or interest tbh)
    Edited by kirankara at 18/10/11 @ 16:03

  • Psychos1s #70 7 months ago

    Forza 4 has better track detail overalll–more specifically the grass is higher resolution and some trees look better. However GT5 has a much more realistic lighting model. It just looks more life-like and like you're watching a video or viewing a photo versus a video game. Forza looks great but still has a "fake" sense to it and looks like other 360 games. Turn 10 just needs to know that sometimes less is more. The overall look needs to have a more subtle approach. Once they nail the lighting...wow...we're in for a real treat. Until then, for a racing fan both games are great!!

  • chaywa #71 7 months ago

    I would happily put up with GFWL if Microsoft released a PC version of this.

    And given that practically everyone hates GFWL, this is a pretty big claim!

  • onyxbox #72 7 months ago

    I'm just impressed at how balanced and civilised this thread is (for a change) :)

  • ronuds #73 7 months ago

    @kirankara

    I don't disagree that you can achieve a "certain level" of reality. My argument, which I probably didn't explain very well, is that there are a limited number of people who can actually make an informed judgement on the matter, considering the fact that you'd actually have to have driven these cars in order to tell.

    So even if your friends had all of this knowledge of cars and such, how many of them have drive a Lambo, Lotus, Bugatti, etc., etc. And if they were lucky enough to do so, how many of them have raced these cars, stock or tuned? Not only that, but then you'd have to consider tuning - and you'd have to tune each car exactly how it is in the game. The level of information you'd need to be able to give an informed judgement is ridiculous, which makes me highly skeptical of those who claim to have this knowledge in the comments section of a video game forum. That's why I asked the guy what his credentials were.

  • darkphoenix #74 7 months ago

    Shame they forgot to compare the tracks in each game.

    GT5 and Forza share some great real world circuits ( Suzuka, Nordschleiffe, Laguna Seca, Tsukuba, La Sartre,.... )
    GT5 offers Spa, Monza and Monaco, Forza has Road Atlanta, Sebring and Mugello.

    Unfortunately, Turn 10 can't create decent fictional tracks ( Sunset Inside and Fujimi Kaido being the exception ).
    On the other side, Poliphony Digital has a long list of good and great fictional circuits.... In fact, I don't remeber a bad PD created track.....

    In the end, I prefer GT5 because it has the better circuits and that makes its career mode far more enjoyable than Forza's.


  • Xardan #75 7 months ago

    Imagine what they could achieve with Forza 5 on the next Xbox...

  • ronuds #76 7 months ago

    DF offers analysis on the technical aspect of a game, not whether they like track A over track B. That's nothing but an objectionable opinion.

  • Lucodeath #77 7 months ago

    Talking about simulation, although I like my racing games I have never had an adrenalin rush with them. I have however drifting my van in real life (not intentional) and speeding down the local bypass when I had a fast(ish) car.

  • bionic #78 7 months ago

    I think it is safe to say, without Gran Turismo, there would be no Forza. Whatever the team behind Gran Turismo come up with, you can bet your life the next Forza will attempt to copy it. Since I donot do Xbox, Forza will never be an option. I am happy with Gran Turismo 5, I play on and off always since launch. Gran Turismo 5 is a great game. Froza will always attempt to emulate it.
    Edited by bionic at 18/10/11 @ 19:08

  • djronz. #79 7 months ago

    yet again horses for courses, the both look and play great, buy both, neither or one or the other and be happy.

  • photoboy #80 7 months ago

    Great article, I loved seeing the comparison between the Forza 4 and GT5 versions of the same real life tracks, it's really cool to see how two different development teams have interpreted those places and where they've placed an emphasis on different track-side detail.

    I also totally agree with the end of the article, "motorsport fans probably own both consoles and are equally invested in both games", I've got both and love playing both games. Now, enough from me, back to the tracks!

  • bionic #81 7 months ago

    Gran Turismo 5 Exclusive SPA FRANCORCHAMPS Directfeed Gameplay PS3
    [link url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAFPPg0OCPI
    ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAFPPg0OCPI
    [/link]

    Froza is close to Gran Turismo when it comes to the car.
    Gran Turismo wins hands down when it comes to the track.
    Gran Turismo just looks so much more realistic. Froza has that high contrast arcade look.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #82 7 months ago

    Sort of going along with Ronuds in that I find it surprising that Turn 10 would go to all the hassle of using real data for tire deformation (as an example) among other things, and yet APPARENTLY, according to the experts here (not you Kestana) it makes fundamental mistakes with it's simulation engine.

    Just find it hard to believe that Dan and the team would slip up like that to be honest. I've been Karting and doing track days on and off for the best part of 15 years and couldn't say that GT5 is more 'realistic' than Forza 4.

  • funkateer #83 7 months ago

    "QAA is a form of MSAA."
    QAA is what makes some PS3 games look like someone's smeared Vaseline on the TV.
    A comparison of QAA and MSAA: -
    So saying that the game has "2xMSAA" is incorrect, as I stated.

    Well, yes and no. It's like saying that mineral water is not water.
    Yes, people associate QAA as something different than 'plain' 2xMSAA, but still, QAA is essentially a specific form of MultiSample Anti-Aliasing using 2 samples per pixel. It's an enhancement of plain 2xMSAA to produce an image close to 4xMSAA but still generating only 2 samples per pixel (at the cost of a bit of added blur).
    It's a bit of a taste thing and it depends on the game I suppose, but usually I prefer QAA over plain 2xMSAA as it's a more effective way to apply 2xMSAA.

  • Simplex #84 7 months ago

    Forza Motorsport 4 vs. Forza Motorsport 3 - side by side comparison (1080p)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq7Xw8ilg...

  • Tallon4 #85 7 months ago

    Forza 4: no wheel, no deal. I hate to drive using a controller

  • HokutoNoKen #86 7 months ago

    Frame buffer data GT5:

    1280x720 with 4xMSAA = 28Mb

    1280x1080 with QAA = 21Mb

    Frame buffer data Forza4:

    1280x720 with 2xMSAA = 14Mb (4xMSAA only used on time trial)

    / Ken

  • betrayerofhope #87 7 months ago

    It's strange to see 30fps rear view mirror of forza. It is quite distracting.

    Whzt's worse is that forza's rendtition of the green hell in germany pales in comparison to Gran turismo's

    As per usual digital foundry always downplays Polyphony's digital talents. The 24 hr dynamic experience of the ring and le sarthe truly shows the gap between both set of developers
    Edited by betrayerofhope at 18/10/11 @ 21:47

  • funkateer #88 7 months ago

    "Not only that, but Digital Foundry are software gurus. How are they at all qualified to judge physics models of a Lamborghini from one game to the next? They're not - and I doubt most of the people who claim to know are either."

    I can't say anything about a Lambo because I've never driven one. However I did drive my (mostly standard) MX5 around the track a number of times (Nurburgring and Zandvoort), and I have to say that GT5 comes pretty damn close at simulating its handling. It's of course not the same as driving a real one: GT5 exaggerates things a little and in some extreme cases it's just way off, and there's obviously no way it can simulate the feeling of driving your own precious car on a track for real, feeling the G's, the noise, knowing that making a mistake might cost you your next holiday.

    I haven't played Forza 4, but I did play Forza 3 quite extensively. Driving an MX5 in F3 didn't quite give me that same feeling of 'recognising' driving my own car as GT5 did. It's fun, it feels somewhat realistic and believable, but it's just not the same. There are areas where Forza 3 has GT5 licked (Forza 3's AI is a lot more exciting for example), but in my humble opinion it's not in its realism of handling.

    That said, I've also driven a Lotus Elise around the track (not my own, sadly, wow what a car :), and thought GT5's interpretation of the Elise is waaaaay too exaggerated (it's not nearly as skiddy IRL), so things probably vary a lot between cars. Can't really say about F3's interpretation because I didn't have it anymore when I drove that Elise.

  • Savatage #89 7 months ago

    "As per usual digital foundry always downplays Polyphony's digital talents."

    Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, they've barely even acknowledged GT5's existence - they only did four articles, a huge five-page tech analysis, and a special GT4/GT5 comparison video.

    No wonder you're so upset.

  • plymyphil #90 7 months ago

    Owning GT5 the lack of anything really worthwhile playing on the Test Gear track is a real omission. Star in a reasonably priced car is the obvious to include but also, why not a 'beat the stig' event where you get to try and race the stig in cars he has driven around the track. Instead we got a bunch of VW camper vans in a short special event!

  • cloudskipa #91 7 months ago

    People can say things like weather/night racing etc are missing from Forza 4 but at least it feels like a complete package. I would of liked weather personally but at least every single car in the game has a superbly accurate interior dashboard, it's something made GT5 feel so inconsistent and unfinished (along with the imported PS2 car models). GT5 is a great game where it matters (on the track), but for me Forza 4 takes it quite a bit further.

    Loading times have also been improved upon which was a detail strangely absent from this article, it takes only around 10 seconds to get from the menu selection to the actual track! (I think F3 was probably twice that)

    Stunning technical achievement Turn 10! I can't wait to see what you do with the next gen hardware.

  • Oskool #92 7 months ago

    I wanted to know what the "car pack" install does. What's the difference between installing the whole DVD to the hard drive instead of the car pack.
    .
    Disc space, obviously, but is there further benefits like faster texture streaming with Microsoft's new "Texture Pack" technology?

  • womble #93 7 months ago

    @parapappa

    "Why is there nobody in the crowds on Forza 4?"

    It's a fair enough question. Don't know why it was negged-down so much.

    GT5 has the same problem: small numbers of low polygon or billboarded crowds.

    IMO, it takes away a little of the "race" experience in both games. For games that are otherwise pristine and detailed-filled, it's a bit of an odd omission. Presumably, it's do with performance.

  • Negotiator1 #94 7 months ago

    Its clear to see in the screenshot comparison that FM4 is a better looking game than GT5, you would have to be blind not to see that. And of course it performs much better too, so it's a win on every level for FM4. Turn 10 are now the racing sim king, and I take my hat off to them.

  • KopparbergDave #95 7 months ago

    On a purely graphical basis and going off these vids and pictures I still find the Forza lighting is just too dramatic, too contrasty and feels like it's always filtered or colour corrected to give a certain stylised feel. GT5 on the other hand more often than not feels like it's realistic, as if what you would see with your own eyes. The weather changes (overcast to sunny and vice versa) and the time changes really are stunning in GT5 and unless you've played it you won't really grasp how subtle and actually how beautiful it is, riding round the Nordshcleife as the lighting gradually changes, the brilliant haze of dusk time fades into crisp clear sunlight.... not to mention the fantastic handling (just watch some onboard comparison vids of GT5 compared to real life on the same cars, so incredibly closely matched which means to me the physics are pretty damn spot on)... It's quite mesmerising.

  • bluetoothion #96 7 months ago

    Gt5 = underachieving to an overambitious project

    F4 = over achieving to an unambitious project

    simplistic take on these two games.

  • ozzzy189 #97 7 months ago

    Far more detailed tarmac with tyre skids etc on forza, very impressed. Both games look good, but i think forza edges it. Just looks more realistic with more shadow details and better lighting.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #98 7 months ago

    Started to play Forza 4 yesterday; First thing to notice is that the sense of speed has increased quite a bit. I played every Forza game so far, and even though it really is Forza 3.5 I don't see this as a bad thing: Everything feels instantly familiar, except where it matters: On the track. The handling is fantastic and the better sense of speed has resolved my biggest issue with Forza so far: The feeling that all cars have understeer. They never did, it just didn't feel like you were going so fast that understeer could even occur. Not an issue anymore in Forza 4.

    Technically it is very impressive. The lightning makes the game look very, very nice but there for me personally the contrast is a bit too much at times. Sometimes the tarmac reflects lights like it was made of ice, even some cars seem to almost shine by themselves. Still, the image based lightning adds a lot, I never throught it would have such an impact. While cars sometimes looked like they were properly lit but still copy/pasted on the track so to say they now perfectly blend in with the scenery. All the more impressive with the most rock solid 60fps I have ever seen.

    My biggest gripe with Forza 4 is one of the biggest additions, autovista mode. It is completely unusable when using a wheel. You can turn the car around but that's it. All the other important functions are mapped to buttons/sticks the wheel simply does not have. Maybe I can use a second controller, I haven't tried that yet, but it's still strange that there is no control scheme for autovista when using the wheel.

  • betrayerofhope #99 7 months ago

    lol @ the guy who said GT5 is underacheiving.

    There is not one game this generation that captures the epic feeling of driving a car at the 24hr ring or Le sarthe experience in Gran Turismo.


    Watching the sunset at 200 mph is a beautiful thing. Gran Turismo has that magic feeling that alot of car games do not have.

  • bluetoothion #100 7 months ago

    @betrayerofhope

    I know mate... i own it.... and loving it but they tried to put so much and it was impossible for them to keep the same level of quality in everything...(even if they had 6 years) in that sense it is under-achieving and just like you picked one of many favorite moments someone else can pick one of the worst... its not half empty but it ain't half full either.

    i was more judgmental on F4 actually for trying too little compared to GT5.... what they tried though seems done quite successfully.

    thats what I get for being simplistic.

  • cloudskipa #101 7 months ago

    @KopparbergDave

    Yes I understand where you are coming from, Forza has always has a contrast/gamma problem with slightly over-saturated colours, however with Forza 4 there is now a "brightness" adjustment available which makes a LOT of difference to the visuals, if you up the level a bit it makes a the world of difference to this contrast issue you speak about (and I fully agree with).

    It really allows you to now appreciate the wonderful engine F4 is running on where as with Forza 3 it wasn't possible outside of tuning your TV to suit the game (In fact I have always used an individual preset on my TV for this problem you are speaking about) and even then that still didn't offer a fully satisfactory picture.

    I still find the colours in F4 a bit over saturated but I just use a separate preset on the TV with less colour, no I probably shouldn't have to do that but it makes the game look so much better. I find many of these graphical comparisons on the net to be waste of time as the new brightness option in Forza 4 (more often than not) has not been turned up from the menu leading everything to look like Forza 3 (over saturated, dark picture, black/white crush), when it's not the case at all, this problem has been rectified.

  • Josh128 #102 7 months ago

    Both games are jaw droppingly beautiful, but GT5's more subtle lighting/ contrast looks more realistic to me. Not saying its graphics are necessarily better or more detailed, but simply have a more realistic, subtle look to them.

  • vulcanproject #103 7 months ago

    Polyphony did shoot for the moon with GT5, it is important that their engine is acknowledged as running with 50 percent more resolution than the Forza games, all the assets are designed as such to enable this feat. Forza 4 is clearly the more consistent title, but credit to polyphony for trying what they did.

    I believe they could quite easily beat Forza 4 visually at 720p, reducing the game down to only 720p, improving everything with the fairly significant resources this would free up, and reducing the car count in game to Forza's level. The fact GT5 still holds up and is even IN the talk of comparison while pushing so many more pixels a second is testament to Polyphony's efforts.

    Kudos to Polyphony then for really pushing it a long way, maybe they would do better to pulling in their ambitions a bit technically and they would probably end up with a better title all round. Roll on GT6. Competition is good for the industry

  • MizzouGaming #104 7 months ago

    Turn 10 has flatout made Polyphony Digital look silly and incompetent this generation. Turn 10 developed and released 3 games in the time it took PD to make one and all 3 of those rated higher than GT5. What's sad is that GT5 still looked rushed and felt incomplete at launch despite the nearly 6 years it was in development. A year and many updates later GT5 still lacks an unbelieveably long list of content that was promised by PD.

  • des #105 7 months ago

    Forza performance is really impressive,GT5 has a long way to catch up(if it wants to be called 60 fps game).

  • UkHardcore23 #106 7 months ago

    After playing Forza 4 solidly for 4-5 days there is no going back to Gran Turismo.

  • albinas #107 7 months ago

    No need to catch up, just drop to 2xMSAA like forza does. GT5 in 720p mode always maintains 4xMSAA, remember?
    Forza is still lacking compared to gt5. Not to mention forza's more simplistic exaggerated and in places very flat lightning scheme. GT5's lightning is more advanced and complex compared to forza's. So forza is still inferior graphically.
    ...
    By the way, just love how DF chosen in comparison gallery only time trial mode shots to hide 2xMSAA in forza.
    Edited by albinas at 20/10/11 @ 14:08

  • Badassbab #108 7 months ago

    Albinas-

    True technically GT5 is more advanced in some ways in particular the lighting (not baked) and premium car detail (you can actually see the back seats when looking back from the in car view) but you forget in ways it's worse-

    Drops frames consistently.
    Not v-synced so screen tears a lot (approx 20% of the frames according to LOT).
    Much less track detail.
    Most cars are PS2 era basic HD remakes.

    So there you have it. FM3/4 and heck even 2 are ahead in some departments. Still there's nothing like driving through the Nurburgring as the day changes which is only possible on GT5.

  • HokutoNoKen #109 7 months ago

    FORZA 4 VS GT5 AI COMPARISON

    [link url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdXriG8P31E
    ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdXriG8P31E
    [/link]

    / Ken

  • clerigo #110 7 months ago

    Shame by the way that the side-by-side video didn't show cockpit view (strange... or maybe not !?)

    Shame that you didnīt show the Qween of racing tracks: Nurburgring Nordschleife!
    Nordshleife is the perfect track too see who is the more realistic game.

    But the highlight of this "analisys" was when you said:
    "The overall impression we get from playing both games back-to-back is that each has its own strengths: in terms of the handling and audio Turn 10 could well have moved ahead of its competition while Polyphony's minute attention to detail (to the point of implementing working headlights/dynamic shadows in the cockpit view)"

    When you say that turn10 could well have moved ahead of its competition in terms of handling you proves that you understand nothing about driving and physics (but ok... you are here to make tech review)...

    In respect of visuals we are comparing a fotorealistic game with dynamic lighting to a more cartoonish like game with an pretty, but artificial (non realistic, and static) lighting system, and we are comparing a game that runs at 1280x1080 with 16 cars online and 16 cars offline, to a game that only runs at 720p with 16 cars online but only manage 12 cars offline.

    Standad cars are the shame of GT5, but Premium cars are way more detailed and well replicated than all Forza cars. Sorry but it is the truth (and is a very evident truth)...


  • Badassbab #111 7 months ago

    Photo realistic my ass. Since when did low track detail and screen tear become photo realistic?

  • TudeScud #112 7 months ago

    When trying to use full resolution in the gallery, is there anyway to get rid of the Eurogamer sidebar that's obscuring a portion of the left side?

    Just as an observation, I noticed some of the signs have changed from one game to another. For example, the Dunlop banner on Laguna Seca in Gran Turismo 5 has been replaced with MOTHERS. As far as I can remember it was Dunlop in GT3, just as it is in Forza 4. Also, there was a plywood banner space left blank in Gran Turismo 5 for some reason.

    As far as more objective (well, subjective as far as if you notice it/it bother you) stuff goes, the tearing in Gran Turismo 5 does seem distracting (is it me, or is tearing under the rear-view mirror the entire time, even when it's not dropping frames?) but it does maintain 60 fps a lot better than some of its detractors claim. The foliage is generally better in Forza 4, but I've noticed at least one area (the end of that last track they showed) where both of them were pretty much equal in showing 'cardboard cutouts'. I've only taken but a peek at the gallery, but both of them have a long ways to go as far as AA goes.

    I wish DF had dropped the HUD overlay in the GT5 replay as they did in Forza. Or is that not possible?

  • clerigo #113 7 months ago

    @Badassbab
    GT5 image as a whole is way more photorealistic than Forza4!
    At some parts GT5 looks like real life images.
    Forza4 never creates the illusion of reality (not even in replays or inrace photomode).

    @TudeScud
    About the foliage, compare the 2 games in the track with more foliage in both games:
    Nurburgring Nordschleife
    ...and then compare the 2 games with real images of Nordshleife track and you will see wich game has more convincing foliage (grass and trees).
    Edited by clerigo at 21/10/11 @ 12:03

  • zztopp #114 7 months ago

    Please Eurogamer get off GT 5's tits - every other game site and magazine says that GT 5 was a bit disappointing and dated and that Forza 4 is the new benchmark for console racing sims except you guys. Wake up, its not 1999 anymore.

  • 43n1m4 #115 7 months ago

    @TheNonk

    But you do know they've changed the driving mechnanics a lot since FM2?

  • Arwin #116 7 months ago

    @UkHardcore23 I can't agree with this one. I have been playing Forza 4 quite a bit (level 28 now) but going back to GT5 (spec 2) highlights a lot of stuff where GT5 is still better, and I was surprised how much GT5 is still better. FM4 does a great job of showing all its best angles in the first few days, but then it gets distractingly repetitive.

    However, I love its Club and Rivals features, and those alone will probably keep me come back to Forza occasionally. But after almost a year of GT5, I'm surprised I wanted to go back to it from Forza 4 so quickly.

  • pro_interesting #117 7 months ago

    Wow, this page is plagued by Ms cocksuckers. Having played Forza yesterday I can soundly say - GT5 > Forza 4. But nice try faggots.

  • bcom77 #118 7 months ago

    I'm a Gt5 owner and love it (although the DLC is few and far between) and when Forza 4 was released I was curious to see how'd they compare. After playing it for a while on a friend's Xbox the one thing that I would say I loved about Forza was the audio. The engine noise is just fantastic. Graphically, I think GT5 slightly, and I do mean very slightly, takes it. Overall they are both fantastic games. Hopefully now that GT5 has some healthy competition we'll get to see more frequent DLC in the near future.

  • NeoTechni #119 7 months ago

    plus the reasonably priced car is included
    Should be "plus reasonably priced cars are included"