BBC's "PS3 failure" report under fire

By Robert Purchese Published 17 September, 2009

Sony sends in the big guns.

Sony has issued a pre-emptive and overwhelming defence of PlayStation 3 ahead of a BBC Watchdog show tonight.

The television programme will focus on the hardware failure rate of the console and the so-called "yellow light of death", as well as highlight Sony's apparent refusal to fix the broken machines.

In response, Sony has written an enormous six-page document - reprinted exclusively on GamesIndustry.biz - that questions the validity and accuracy of the Watchdog report.

"From the correspondence to date, I have serious concerns as to the accuracy of these allegations and the likely tone of the Watchdog report," wrote Ray Maguire, MD of Sony UK, in response to Watchdog's allegations.

"The information that you have provided suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of the technical issues and a mis-characterisation of SCEUK’s Out of Warranty repairs policy."

Head over to GamesIndustry.biz for the full and exhaustive report.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (214) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • bad09 #1 2 years ago

    So turns out the PS3 is just as reliable as PS1 and 2 then. ;)

  • MiniAmin #2 2 years ago

    This is gonna be one fun thread.

  • Sir_TimAlot #3 2 years ago

    cost me £150 for a replacement when mine went borke, the person on the other end of the phone was the smuggest bastard i have ever had the misfortune of talking to!

  • jonsaan #4 2 years ago

    I don't know about yellow light of death, but my Blu Ray died after 18 months and they refused to fix it. No error lights at all.

  • lambtron #5 2 years ago

    More and more people I know with PS3 are having problems. I have two and have so far remained immune...

    Here's hoping it stays that way...

  • BigJonno #6 2 years ago

    So a big corporation is getting antsy because its star product is going to be featured on Watchdog? No surprise there, but I'm sure the inevitable internet backlash will be interesting. "ZOMG, BBC PAID OFF BY M$!!!!!"

  • brokenkey #7 2 years ago

    This nastiness could have been avoided, all Sony had to do was put aside $1billion to cover out of warranty faults, like Microsoft did.

  • ronuds #8 2 years ago

    So it comes down to - would you rather have a console that breaks 50% of the time, but is fixed for free. Or, a console that breaks 25% of the time, but forces you to pay to have it fixed?

    Sounds like a no-win to me! :(

  • Floppy #9 2 years ago

    If this gets ugly, say bye-bye to your new BBC iPlayer option in the new firmware... not that it works for me yet.

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #10 2 years ago

    Well my 360's out of warranty anyway now so I'd have to pay either way (if I had a PS3, that is) ;-)

  • SeesThroughAll #11 2 years ago

    This nastiness could have been avoided, all Sony had to do was put aside $1billion to cover out of warranty faults, like Microsoft did.

    If they had a monopoly funding all their remaining business ventures, perhaps they would. Short of that, they'll just have to expose themselves as the greedy cunts they are...

  • symmetry #12 2 years ago

    So Sony has started building the PS3 with cheaper components because they were losing money on the hardware cost.

    Microsoft has started building the 360 with more expensive components because they were losing money on failures.

    Swings and roundabouts.

  • No1_Dave #13 2 years ago

    will be watching WD tonight then

  • ParanoidZombie #14 2 years ago

    Shame that the ps3 is not that reliable after all, I'd like to find a console manufacturer not named nintendo that I can trust with my money :(

  • ps3owner #15 2 years ago

    my blu ray drive died on me but I got that fixed in while still in warranty, which has now run out... so, fingers crossed it stays alive. I ain't gonna spend 150 squid to fix my PS3, I'll probably just buy a slim next (I prefer the look of the fat one though... so maybe I do have to waste the money on getting it fixed if it breaks... maybe I should stop talking about it breaking. bad luck ;))

  • LazyDan #16 2 years ago

    Or get a Wii which so far hasn't been marred by reliability issues. Which obviously isn't ideal if you want to play Halo or God of War.

    It's pretty damn poor on both MS' and Sony's parts. At least shit hit the fan hard enough to force MS into having to provide an exceptional customer service front dedicated to its hardware issues - but that took a very long time to come about. Sony's problems aren't quite that bad yet, but I'm sure they're making enough profit on the PS3 to make such an endeavour feasible. Oh wait...

    Yeah, don't hold your breath.

  • Carlo #17 2 years ago

    My Launch BC compatible model is still working.

  • sneetch #18 2 years ago

    "an enormous six-page document"

    Enormous, eh? What size are those pages exactly? A0?

  • LazyDan #19 2 years ago

    NO WAIT I'VE GOT IT! The perfect console with absolutely zero hardware reliability issues!


    ...Everybody boycott MS, Sony and Nintendo and buy Etch-a-Sketches!

  • Wyrm #20 2 years ago

    This is the first time I have ever even heard of the 'yellow light of death'.

  • JahB #21 2 years ago

    This is the first time I have ever even heard of the 'yellow light of death'.

    that must be some cozy rock you live under.

  • SeesThroughAll #22 2 years ago

    Hmm.. they never admitted to the PS2 laser head failures either and my colleague opposite who worked for the company dealing with repairs here seems to think it certainly was a problem.

    But they were sued and condemned for that back then, weren't they? Or am I mistaking that for that one related to the PS2 power bricks (when they were forced to do a recall).

  • Collymilad #23 2 years ago

    Sorry Sony but I trust watchdog more than you.

  • BlueDot #24 2 years ago

    My Etch-a-Sketches had stuck 'bits" that won't clear with a shake.

  • etherfiend #25 2 years ago

    I guess I've been lucky, I've got a PS3 (albeit only usually used for bluray) and an X360 Elite (used pretty much daily) - so far neither have quit on me.

    A guy at work here has had his PS3 die 3 times now, first went about 3 months ago, repaired and lasted a couple of weeks, repaired again (both times at a cost & courier charges) and it died again literally hours into getting it back. To give Sony credit, they've given him a Slim replacement now after complaining about the service level he received. Still, he lost his PS2 compatibility and 2USB ports, but he was happy enough with the final result as he was not prepared to pay any more for repairs.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 16:02

  • firm3d #26 2 years ago

    As someone who's never had a console fail (currently have a Wii, 360, launch PS3 and slim PS3 ready for use) I always feel like people expect manufacturers to behave like charities for faults that most likely occurred due to users' incompetence; by smoking, letting dust build up, putting the console in an enclosed cabinet or otherwise impairing the cooling mechanisms of said consoles.

  • peterfll #27 2 years ago

    My launch model developed issues 4 months into its life. Sony replaced it straight away, their after sales support was faultless; they couried a new machine to me within a couple of days to and extended my warranty. Since then I've had no further problems (and I'm increasingly attached to my FAT but partially BC machine).

    Speak as you find I guess.

  • El-Dev #28 2 years ago

    Did anyone read Sonys letter of response?

  • SeesThroughAll #29 2 years ago

    tbh Watchdog gets alot of things wrong.

    I don't think that this is the case, though.

    It's a fact that PS3s have been failing a lot more, with Blu-Ray drive issues and YLOD, for the last few months. There was a survey from a gaming website that estimated the failure rate already above 10% (sorry, can't be bothered to find the link, so consider this number pulled out of my arse if it makes you happy).

    My launch BC machine still works, but I think I was just lucky.
    Edited by 2 at 18/09/09 @ 02:24

  • X201 #30 2 years ago

    @El-Dev
    Yep, All of it.

  • El-Dev #31 2 years ago

    @X201, what did you think of it?

  • cianchristopher #32 2 years ago

    Oh fuck off Sony, my PS3 died in June with the YLOD. And when I asked you to fix it you told me it would cost €160 and wouldn't even come back with a guarantee.

    Fuck yourselves, your console isn't even as good as the Xbox 360 (oh yeah, I went there!)..........

  • X201 #33 2 years ago

    Regardless of which console. The one thing we never see investigated in shows like this is whether the owner of the console has been abusing it.

  • JamieR #34 2 years ago

    I haven't at any problems with my ps3 YET O.O id have to have it fixed because later ps3s don't play old games

  • timewarp87 #35 2 years ago

    I wonder if Sony know that there is a UK law that goods carry a 6 year warranty? Its not know by many people, but it can be contested in court. The reason being if a company expects you to pay £400 for an item and that item is proved by the consumer to have a manuafacturing fault after 6 months, then you are entitled to a replacment or repair. After 6 months, upto 6years. "Under UK law, buyers in England and Wales can get a refund or repair up to six years after the purchase was made. However, the likelihood of getting such a refund is dramatically reduced after just six months. The reason is that for six months after the purchase, it is up to the retailer to show that a fault on an item is down to the actions or misuse of the buyer, rather than an inherent fault in the product.

    After six months, the burden of proof switches to the buyer and it is they who must then show a fault is due to some inherent problem, something that can be almost impossible in all but the most straightforward cases."

  • SeesThroughAll #36 2 years ago

    I haven't at any problems with my ps3 YET O.O id have to have it fixed because later ps3s don't play old games

    I'd like to think the same, but the fact is that they've long run out of BC refurbs and parts in some countries.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 16:17

  • SL33PY #37 2 years ago

    Sony replaced my PS3 twice over the past almost 2 years that I had it, the first failure was in the beginning, the second one was this summer. I got an extra extension warranty, when my ps3 fails before the end of October, they will give me a new unit instead of a refurbished one... which is not so good since I like my ps2 bc and 4 usb port sporting fat ps3

  • breedob #38 2 years ago

    I got the YLoD on sunday and it's a fucking pain in the arse. I signed up to Sony's continuous play deal which means I pay a fiver a month and they send me a refurbished console as a replacement. The only reason I signed up to this is because my PS3 chewed up my Bioshock disc earlier in the year and Sony were going to charge £150 to fix it. My console is the launch 60 gig one and I think this is the console where most of these problems are surfacing.

  • DrDamn #39 2 years ago

    PS1 & PS2 quality was always pretty bad in my experience, my PS3 has been fine and from friends experience any problems have been no where near the level of the early 360s. Couple of points - obviously I wouldn't trust Sony figures but I also wouldn't trust Watchdog. Also from the BBC website ... link ... "A key fact is that your relationship in the Sale of Goods Act is with the retailer, not the manufacturer. " - so don't call up Sony when the issue is out of the usual warranty period, go back to your retailer.

  • X201 #40 2 years ago

    @El-dev

    Well written without ranting.
    Nice deconstruction of the "mend your PlayStation" for free stunt
    Seems like Watchdog are basing the whole show on the analysis of just 3 consoles by a company that repairs them - which Sony go on to say 3 out of 2.5 million hardly constitutes a pattern.
    Sony point out that the soldering is within industry standards and the Watchdog expert seems to agree.


    All served up with a healthy side order of "We'll sue your arse off if you so much as get one fact wrong"

  • Spekingur #41 2 years ago

    So people in Scotland are effed over once again according to that UK law? XP

  • M_of_the_sys #42 2 years ago

    @DrDamn

    I read that the other day and was already aware of that from various forums. The problem is, I got mine from Xavvi :(

  • peterfll #43 2 years ago

    Just finished reading the Sony 6-pager and I have to say... fair game. Watchdog inevitably provide a genuine and much-need champion for the consumer in some instances. They can also be conceited, ill-informed and tabloid-bating in their behaviour.

    A shame, as they may have a point to make .... but going out on the road with a van labelled "Playstation Repair Action Team" (PRAT - yes - aren't you clever!) doesn't change my opinon much.

  • DrDamn #44 2 years ago

    @M_of_the_Sys
    Ah bugger :).

    Actually consoles is one of the few things I would recommend getting from one of the Currys chains. When my first 360 died in the first year I just needed to register the failure with MS and get a reference number, Currys then replaced the unit with a brand new one and gave me a new receipt for another 12 months usual warranty.

  • El-Dev #45 2 years ago

    @X201. Yeah it also makes it out to be some sort of sensationalist reporting with very little basis in fact other than 150 or so people complained to Watchdog. Why in hell though they would put someone who had tried to repair their own console on the show is beyond me when they are discussing warranties.

  • GreyBeard #46 2 years ago

    What Sony are particularly pissed off about is the use of "YLOD" as it draws obvious comparison with the 360's defect rate.

    It goes without saying that would be a PR disaster if their issues were conjoined in the public perception with MS RROD fiasco, so they are going to do all they can to squash it.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the feature got pulled, because I'm very sure Sony will take this all the way.

  • the_dudefather #47 2 years ago

    I'm still a little bitter over watchdog complaining about the dreamcast not having any online games at launch (but rather the promise of online play)

    got to see some new fangled sonic adventure and soul calibur footage though!

  • wayneh #48 2 years ago

    I'm going to have to side with Sony on this one, the report does look like a crock of shit with no proper foundations. I'm surprised Sony allow them to use a name like 'Playstation Reapir Action Team' etc. Tim Landell would have had a field day if it was the 'Edge Repair Action Team'.

  • haruvister #49 2 years ago

    I'm on my first 360 and my third PS3. Go figure.

  • TriGgeR7 #50 2 years ago

    If the letter from Maguire is to be trusted, Watchdog's report is based on a sample of 3 PS3s... Clearly not enough to draw any conclusion, imho...

    On the other side, my PS3 had a bluray drive failure a few months ago (15 months after purchase). Here in France, the minimum warranty duration is 2 years (and i took an extra 3rd year), so it got replaced absolutely free of charge. As the bluray drive is the only component with mechanical/moving parts, I understand it can break (as the hard drive, but one can easily replace it). I also never heard any of my friends (and a good number of them have a PS3) having an "YLOD" (and none of them had a bluray drive failure).

  • KayJay #51 2 years ago

    Did they ever do a show about the 360 RROD... Bloody Bias... :-)

  • GamesConnoisseur #52 2 years ago

    Posts this time around so far seem pretty much more weighted whereas last time YLOD came up there were lot more denials of the YLOD,though I accept that we cannot imply the fault is to the same level as a more well known RROD as was seemly indicated by the author of the 'repair centre experience' article recently!

    DocBarnett my PS3 owning mate at work had instead send his YLOD PS3 to http://www.consoledoc tor.co.uk as far cheaper than Sony, BUT his PS3 went belly up again after getting his PS3 back for just a week or thereabout.

    No he is not a figment of my imagination but a bona fide PS3 owner docbarnett and he lives at South Shields and doesnt frequent Eurogamer.net as he probably too illiterate (sorry Stephen!). EDIT: Apology to South Shields EG readers for any apparent insults, as this is just a game between DocBarnett and me re doing one over each other and nowt to do with any other reason!

    Going to watch Watchdog tonight... the same way as I did watch when RROD featured, but the litmus test is how the respective companies react rather than try to brush the matter the carpet.

    Sony is now on the spotlight and I will rate their respectability based on how they address the matter, PS3 owners here who had problems do need to be recognised and not ignored. Never mind the Xbots ... they should know very well the pains of consoles dying on them!
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 17:28

  • SeesThroughAll #53 2 years ago

    Did they ever do a show about the 360 RROD

    Yes, they did. That show helped force Microsofts hand.

  • SL33PY #54 2 years ago

    @el-dev
    Not only that, but also the reporter used to work for microsoft... I might be a bit paranoia here, but still, I wonder where his bias lies.

  • SeesThroughAll #55 2 years ago

    Not only that, but also the reporter used to work for microsoft

    wtf? Where did you get that from??

  • RFturrican #56 2 years ago

    Well I paid £25 quid to get my Super Nintendo repaired last year and that was including the shipping costs.

    Just thought I'd get that in there.

  • altitude2k #57 2 years ago

    Bit of a coincidence that this is going out only 2 weeks after the launch of slim

  • patch #58 2 years ago

    Before I read the Sony response I was thinking what w*nkers Sony are and hoping my ps3 didn't die on me tonight... now I've read the Maguire letter I'm thinking "F*ck me BBC, I pay you £142.50 for my TV license and you run this report using a sample of 3 consoles?!?". If they do only use 3 they're either reporting something that really isn't an issue for the vast majority or worse still failing to hold Sony to book (that's if it IS that big a problem). Gonna have to watch tonight to see if it's Sony or the BBC that have F*cked up on this one. On current evidence I'm saying it looks more like the beeb at the moment.

  • SeesThroughAll #59 2 years ago

    Well I paid £25 quid to get my Super Nintendo repaired last year and that was including the shipping costs.

    I think it's safe to say that none of the current gen consoles will ever last 30 years...

    Those were the days. :)

  • zarglu #60 2 years ago

    "an enormous six-page document"

    ahaha joke of the day?
    What kind of SMS geek could have made that comment?

  • KayJay #61 2 years ago

    This is the chap doing the investigation...
    Iain Lee

  • KayJay #62 2 years ago

    can we watch "Watchdog" on the BBC iPlayer on the PS3?

  • El-Dev #63 2 years ago

    Ian Lee wrote the biggest fanboy rant on the MSN tech website when the PS3 was released. He also put in it something that the fact he was employed by MS didn't sway his decision to decide the 360 was the best of the current generation.

    It's not that hard to find on the MSN website, I read it a while back.

  • TriGgeR7 #64 2 years ago

    [link url=http://tech.uk.msn.com/gaming/article.aspx?cp-do cumentid=7838134
    ]http://te ch.uk.msn.com/gaming/article.as...[/link]

    Link from Maguire's letter... (As stated before, Iain Lee is the man behind the "PS3 failure" report)

  • Goffee #65 2 years ago

    I think his main point is the YLOD is a non-specific fault that the BBC is purporting to be this one solder issue.

    Which is typical of the crappy BBC, but worse - this "voiding" happens to all high-heat, low-micron computer gear - its an industry problem and a small percentage of any similar gear will fail. So surely the Beeb should be pointing that out.

    Think HD tv boxes, iPhones, consoles, blu-ray players, home media boxes... the list will go on. Which makes me think they are picking on Sony just because it was Microsoft's go last time.

    this is the stick that keeps on hitting and Watchdog can use it for years to come.

  • el_pollo_diablo #66 2 years ago

    I have no idea about PS3 fail rates, but I can absolutely say that from (very) personal experience Watchdog DO NOT do proper research.

  • theiceman #67 2 years ago

    I had the YLOD twice now. I'm on my 3rd ps3, and i'm thinking it won't last much longer. I've got the original 60gb Phat which i would sell for peace of mind. Stupid $ony using us as guinea pigs :(

  • tonynibbles #68 2 years ago

    This is a joke. Money back on my license fee please!

    /hugs launch day PS3 - never had a single problem, ever

  • Schiraman #69 2 years ago

    Sony's response seemed very fair TBH, and made a lot of good points. Of course it's hard to say before actually seeing the episode of Watchdog in question - but it does really sound like Sony may have good reason to be annoyed with the BBC in this case.

  • moozaad #70 2 years ago

    BBC reporting has been shipments of fail and hack jobs for years. I'm sure they used to actually check facts and included said checked facts in reports/stories. Now it all seems copy+paste+reword from Reuters or whomever else they can 'borrow' the story from irrelevant of factual content.
    As for returning broken kit, UK consumers get 6 years worth of protection irrelevant of what companies think. It's called 'Fit for purpose' aka Sales of Goods Act and it's up to the retailer not the manufacturer to handle such issues.

  • glaeken #71 2 years ago

    I don't believe the PS3 failure rate will be even close to the 360 failure rate as there is nowhere near as much word of mouth around about PS3's failiing.

    I am on my 4th 360 by the way so feel qualified to comment.

  • MightyMouse #72 2 years ago

    It's a tough one to call as overheating is always going to be a problem. Quite honestly doing your own research is the only way to get a decent grasp of this kind of issue as anything said on these programs should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

  • El-Dev #73 2 years ago

    My launch PS3 was gettin a bit noisey, so I hoovered out the vents and it's fine now. There is a crack in the plastic though from where my ma dropped it but it's hard to notice. It's under warranty until March next year so if it croaks it hopefuly it'll be before then.

  • KayJay #74 2 years ago

    [link url=http://tech.uk.msn.com/gaming/article.aspx?cp-do cumentid=7838134
    ]http://te ch.uk.msn.com/gaming/article.as...[/link]

    Bloody hell what a tosser... This article really should put this Watchdog investigation inot a different light.

    Bloody FanBoi... :-)

  • paulf #75 2 years ago

    @henryviii

    'Your actually covered for five years under law if its not fit for its purpose. For the first 18 months its the company's responsibility, but between 18 months and 5 years the onus is on you to PROVE that its not fit and suitable for what you purchased it for.

    Before anyone stumps up £150, phone them up and explain to them how its broken of its own accord, and its no longer fit for its purchased purpose.'

    isn't this relevant to the place you bought it though not the manufacturer - hopefully mine will stay working as I bought it from zavvi ...

  • kingnothing12 #76 2 years ago

    I have had only a handful of heavy gaming sessions on my ps3 as i may buy all multiplatform games on the 360, so my ps3 is being used primarily as a blu-ray player (60GB bc model) so i am to understand that i should have at least 2 years left in the bloody thing as it has not been used much at all. Im hoping that when the time comes that it does go down the shitter, the slim will be around £180 or thereabouts.

  • speedjack #77 2 years ago

    I've no love for Sony - but Watchdog are a tad too tabloid nowadays with their mock outrage meets consumer affairs.

    Its 'investigative journalism' for Daily Mail readers...

    ...but having said that anyone that releases a 6 page press release is obviously scared of something?

  • El-Dev #78 2 years ago

    "Before anyone stumps up £150, phone them up and explain to them how its broken of its own accord, and its no longer fit for its purchased purpose.'

    How do you prove that though? How can you be sure the fault hasn't occured because of someones actions? One year is a long enough warranty, the law has to protect the consumers and the manufacturers.

  • byron_hinson #79 2 years ago

    Got to say I can see why Sony are annoyned on this one - that and the fact that the new watchdog show seems to have been aimed at either children or teenagers in the new format - it's dire and seems more into tabloid ways than the previous decent version

  • El-Dev #80 2 years ago

    "...but having said that anyone that releases a 6 page press release is obviously scared of something?"

    Or doesn't want bad press right before the Christmas period, or wants to maintain it's reputation, or doesn't want to be shown in a false light in the media.

  • Xerx3s #81 2 years ago

    "From the correspondence to date, I have serious concerns as to the accuracy of these allegations and the likely tone of the Watchdog report," wrote Ray Maguire, MD of Sony UK

    Of course you do. You wouldn't do the right thing and admit that there is something wrong with the machine just like there is with the 360. That would mean that you would actually have to fix them. For free. Like the competition does. ¬_¬

  • Kenshin001 #82 2 years ago

    As much as Iain Lee is a slimy MS shill, Sony should rightfully offer a 3 year warranty for the PS3. The warm fuzzy feeling I had about my 60GB dried up pretty quickly when Sony asked me to shell out 17000 yen (I'm in Japan now) after only two years of play. If it is reliable, no harm done right? The last study I saw the failure rate is 10%, above industry standard. They should treat their customers better.

  • canIdoyabombsforya #83 2 years ago

    My PS3 has been more reliable than the 1 or 2, but Sony didn't get enough stick back then, so let em have it ;)

  • Sunyavadin #84 2 years ago

    Streisand effect FTW.

    Nobody would have cared if Sony hadn't gone "OMG THIS IS ALL LIIIIEEEEZZZZ!!!!!"
    Now the coverage will be quite a bit more...

  • rprince #85 2 years ago

    To be fair, Maguire makes a very good exposé of Watchdog's hack reporting techniques. Their argument is far from scientific.

    However, I don't understand how a third party repairer can afford to undercut Sony's prices if Sony are not making a profit. either Sony are inefficient in their process or the third party repairer are doing low quality repairs?

  • KayJay #86 2 years ago

    Bugger off Xerx3s (#88)
    You cant seriously be saying that the problem is and big as a problem as the one with Microsofts console.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 16:58

  • Eraserhead #87 2 years ago

    Which is typical of the crappy BBC, but worse - this "voiding" happens to all high-heat, low-micron computer gear - its an industry problem and a small percentage of any similar gear will fail. So surely the Beeb should be pointing that out.

    That's the big problem with Watchdog. On the one hand, it does seem to have a lot of clout, terrifying companies with bad feedback and actually getting results for the better in some cases.

    On the other hand, it's nasty tabloid telly (as others have pointed out) which assumes that everything and everyone are evil, grasping liars actively trying to rip you off - instead of, in many cases, just being incompetent, lazy or suffering from arse/elbow dislocation. WD doesn't give a crap about the actual issues involved, they just want outraged headline material.

    I'm no PS3 lover - I haven't even got one - but I just wish there were other more intelligent consumer programmes around other than WD...
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 16:58

  • byron_hinson #88 2 years ago

    Got no problem with the BBC investigating this - but having someone as bias as Iain Lee doing it is way over the top and clearly wrong, never made a complaint to the beeb before but have this time without it even being broadcast - with the 360, it was a well known problem properly reported, with the PS3, it isn't widespread and I have no problem with it being investigated - but fairly

  • X201 #89 2 years ago

    @rprince
    You can undercut anyone with cheap parts and low wage unskilled staff.

    Not suggesting they are, just pointing out one way to do a job cheaper.

  • patchbox360 #90 2 years ago

    hmm.. where is watchdog's report on the 360 failure rate

  • zedzee #91 2 years ago

    @ kj66246: Only if your PS3 hasn't gone faulty! ;-)

  • JonFE #92 2 years ago

    Well, if Sony are so adamant about the quality of their console and YLOD not being an actual issue with the PS3, they could just announce a 3 year warranty plan like Microsoft. After all, their console does not break, so they would not lose any money this way, right?

  • laudy #93 2 years ago

    I've just been over at the gameindustry site to read the whole sony press release.

    As some folk have alluded to on here, there are not trying to cover up faults with the machine, they simply want to be correctly represented. To "not want to admit" that there can be faults with their machine would make them look very foolish indeed. Watchdog should be able to say that they've used a sample of more than 3 independent repairers, and 3 consoles. 3 consoles? If you're happy to accept that figure as representative of the entire user base, then I dearesay you're in for a treat this evening, if you can be bothered to watch it.

    Watchdog need people to watch their programmes. end of. tabloid TV at its finest. Watchdog used to be decent, but now the concern is with ratings figures and sensationalism, not honest reporting.

    It's even stated that one of the folk in the programme tampered with the machine themselves...in most cases that's a sure fire way to invaildate any existing warranty anyway isn't it?
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 17:10

  • toa_boa #94 2 years ago

    These are the facts, that Sony does not want you to know about:

    [link url=http://www.squaretrade.com/ht m/pdf/SquareTrade_Xbox360_PS3_Wii_Reliability_0809.pdf ]http://ww w.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/Squar...[/link]

    In the immortal words of John Adams:

    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

    (John Adams, 'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials,' December 1770, US diplomat & politician 1735 - 1826)

  • laudy #95 2 years ago

    @ toa_boa

    It's clear that these facts are available, if you can be bothered to look for them. If sony don't want us to know, surely they would have been censored.

  • KayJay #96 2 years ago

    "Excluding “Red Ring of Death” failures, which are covered by Microsoft’s 3-year warranty, 11.7% of Xbox 360 owners reported a failure."

    Why are they excluding RROD failures? She they are under warranty but they are still failures?!?

  • des #97 2 years ago

    Oh noes,stop the press,its all lies

  • Rirekon #98 2 years ago

    Those of you in the EU complaining of broken consoles - take it back to the RETAILER and under EU law they are required to offer a repair or replacement for several years if the problem is a manufacturing fault.
    Yes the retailer will try and BS you out of it, but you have the right to deal with them - not the manufacturer (that's the retailers problem)

  • KayJay #99 2 years ago

    From that doc...
    "Conclusions:
    Of the three major 7th generation game consoles, we can safely say that the Wii is the most reliable system on the market, with just one-fourth the malfunctions of the PS3 and Xbox 360. Even when adjusted for the lower rate of usage, the Wii leads the pack by a comfortable margin.
    Our study also found the Xbox 360 to have the highest rate of failure by far, largely due to the Red Ring of Death. While our data indicates that RROD continued to persist as a major problem through 2008, it showed signs of finally abating with the introduction of the latest “Jasper” chipset in late 2008. SquareTrade will continue to monitor the progress and publish an update on the incidence of RROD in 2010."

    It dosent say anything about PS3...

    Explain to me why Sony wouldnt want anyone to know about this?

    /confused
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 17:18

  • JonFE #100 2 years ago

    Was it still under warranty evilfoxhound?

  • laudy #101 2 years ago

    @kj66246

    11.7% looks a whole lot better than the percentage figure if you take into account the RRoD.

  • Halo.Jones #102 2 years ago

    @ rprince. They might be a bit cheaper than sony but in the end, you'll have to pay out for the courier to pickup and deliver the console and the prices are probably around £10 or more for the pickup/delivery. So it may work out even more expensive.

    Saying that. I have a launch PS3 and it's still going strong and it's heavily used by the kids.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 17:25

  • Arwin #103 2 years ago

    Based on what I've read so far, I hope they pull the part of the programme and that a certain person gets fired.

  • KayJay #104 2 years ago

    Okay, My mouse scroller jumped over all the middle pages. So an almost 23.7% failure rate for the 360. Thats not very good is it.

    Whilst the PS3 has a smack on 10% failure rate and the Wii is rather wondeful at 2.7%.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 17:24

  • Kenshin001 #105 2 years ago

    @kj66246

    While the report concludes the 360 is by far the least reliable it still puts the PS3 at 10% which is a lot higher than industry standard.

  • Invisible_Cow #106 2 years ago

    How come my Xbox 360 (manufactured two years ago) is lying in bits on the floor, while my Atari VCS (manufactured c. 1979) still works? (rhetorical question).

    I hope the BBC stick to their guns on this one.. we pay our license fees to ensure they're unbiased and unaffected by commercial pressures like this.

    Edit: having RTFthread it seems that the Beeb could be totally in the wrong on this one. Bugger.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 17:35

  • toa_boa #107 2 years ago

    @laudy

    Indeed - but compare the vast difference between a few enthusiasts - like ourselves - knowing this, and BBC assailing Sony's "shining knight in armour" status as the console ‘reliable choice'. And doing it primetime, on national television for Mr. and Mrs. Jones to be edified...Now that would make me as a CEO get out of my chair and onto the barricades :)

  • KayJay #108 2 years ago

    @ Kenshin001 yeah got it now...
    But they way people bang on about this YLOD... Its just scaremongering and trying to pigeon hole the PS3 problem in with the 360 problem is a little unfair.

  • laudy #109 2 years ago

    Don't exaggerate with that "knight in shining armour" stuff...

    All Sony want to do is make sure they are correctly represented, and there's nothing wrong with that, they are not asking for the programme to be pulled are they?

    Besides, the 'reliable choice' as you so crassly put it, appears to be Nintendo...
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/09 @ 17:32

  • a.j2020 #110 2 years ago

    I'm currently on my 3rd PS3 and have to say that I think this issue does need to be investigated...However, I would like to make the point that the reason a lot of people have no YLODs and some have 5 or 6 is because of the awful quality of the redurbished units. Mine broke after 4 hours!!..Luckily sony replaced it with a new 60GB unit...But I'm still scared that 2 or 3 years later it might go again.

    I took and still take immaculate care of my systems and it is fully ventilated...regularly vacuumed and cleaned to keep it dust free. It was alos not used as much as some hardcore users but it did get moderate use. I think sony should definitely extend the warranty to 3 years and give refunds to anyone and everyone who had to pay their ridiculously high repair fee(€160).

  • onyxbox #111 2 years ago

    The GI report makes for an interesting read.

    If there really is a problem here then good on em, some good will come of it and perhpas we'll get some extra warranty out of it :-D

    However, if this is an unjustified and poorly reaserarched then Sony have every right to come down on them like a ton of bricks.

    I liked the link to Ian Lee's MSN article (or was that on VG247), which has the quote below at the bottom :-D

    "Iain Lee is employed on a freelance basis by Microsoft. The views in this column are those of the author and not of MSN or Microsoft."

  • bioreit #112 2 years ago

    @ SeesThroughAll

    "But they were sued and condemned for that back then, weren't they? Or am I mistaking that for that one related to the PS2 power bricks (when they were forced to do a recall)."

    If you're talking about the Disc Read Error in PS2s, as far as I can remember, a class action was brought against Sony for that, where after months and months of Sony using lots of different legal tactics (posting depositions in multiple states; scheduling court appearances in multiple states occurring at exactly the same time, whereby claimants had to attend all of them or forfeit, like they did against Lik-Sang) Sony offered up an out-of-court deal whereby users who purchased PS2s with specific manufacturing codes who also experienced the DRE were permitted to a partial refund of repair costs (up to $50 I think - can't remember exactly) or a choice of two games from a select list - but it had to be by a certain deadline (Christmas 2000-something). Claimants with an affected console with the DRE who missed that deadline got nada.

    And because of that offer, Sony skipped any responsibilities.

    Don't get me wrong - I think Microsoft only offered the deal they did on RROD/E74 errors simply because the scale of the problem and scope of the complaints forced them to, but the deal is better than how Sony treated the PS2 DRE issue.

    Can't recall much about the PS1, although I do remember most of my friends having to gradually turn the PS1 more and more on its side to make it read discs - some even went vertical! There was always a lot of rumour that that's why they introduced the vertical option for PS2 - "No, no, no - it's not a fault - it's a FEATURE!"

  • GamesConnoisseur #113 2 years ago

    DocBarnett will say the same re his care of his bedroom and looked after his PS3, but still got YLOD few weeks ago and then another failure recently.

    So there is something in the report re 11 percent or thereabout failures which is still far far better than 23 or so for X360, but what i take issues is how some people try to deny that there is any problems with PS3. As it is PS3 owners themselves who come forward and we as consumers need to hold companies to account.

    Nothing to do with so called childish 'consolewarz' but our own rights and basic consumer expectation to have products works and get it replaced FOR FREE, as within the EU laws as explained by others. I just hope that Sony is not going to regret deciding to be stubborn about this as MS HAD to give up £1 billion and give 3 years warranty... which most of us appreciate as being upfront.

  • IronGiant #114 2 years ago

    Probably know about 20 or so people with a PS3 and not one has been faulty as yet. Most are 60GB launch models.

  • penhalion #115 2 years ago

    Basically, what this tells anyone with sense is that the PS3 simply lasted longer than the 360 before the problems became apparent! I can't be alone in seeing the irony in this situation. After all it was Sony and their fans that were only too quick to highlight the failure rate of the 360. Now it seems that the PS3 was just as prone to failure only it too longer to show up.

    I own both consoles and I have zero sympathy for Sony on this one. I guess they must simply be preying that it's not going to cost them 1 billion dollars in contingency, especially as they simply don't have that kind of cash. They are going to have to fight like a cornered tiger to make these problems seem trivial and just prey that the original PS3 unitys don't start failing on mass!

  • Dizzy #116 2 years ago

    Yeah the best defense is always accusing the BBC of being wrong.

    NOT!

  • BritishBlue1 #117 2 years ago

    This watchdog report is going to go down well with Sony...like a turd in a punchbowl...

  • timewarp87 #118 2 years ago

    Look up " 6 year warranty in uk" on google. There is a little know trade descriptions law that says if you can prove after 6 months, that the goods are manufactured with a defect then you are entitled to a refund or exchange upto 6 years. You would not buy a freezer and expect it to break after 12 months for example. The only thing is, the onus is on the customer not the seller to prove the defect...

  • teabagger #119 2 years ago

    The standards of BBC consumer programs fell into the gutter long ago, anyone who thinks otherwise should go watch the 'killer wi-fi' episode of Panorama from a year or so ago.

  • makattack #120 2 years ago

    Did eurogamer/digital foundry inspire the beeb? http://ww w.eurogamer.net/articles/digita...

  • Scimarad #121 2 years ago

    I know this is tempting fate, but my US launch model is still going strong.

  • drumbaby #122 2 years ago

    The Beeb are walking a tightrope on this one, by the looks of it...Should be VERY interesting :)

  • clarkec321 #123 2 years ago

    The PS3 is one of the most unreliable pieces of kit ever, the only other 2 pieces of consumer electronics which are worse are the Xbox 360 and the Sky+ HD boxes. This is not a reason for Sony to celebrate.

    The fact this guy has said 'Supposed Issue' really wound me up - It is an issue and I wish Sony would own up to it like Microsoft have. So come one Sony grow some balls and admit to the truth, you have made one unreliable piece of crap. I've bin through 2 for YLOD and I know people who have been through more. Sort it out!!!

  • GreyBeard #124 2 years ago

    @Teabagger

    So true, I watched that particular piece of "journalism" with my gob on the floor.

    It really had to be seen to be believed... I seem to recall a few people got fired over it, it was that mental.

  • TriggerHippie #125 2 years ago

    Watchdog is right up there with Danny Dire's [[i]sic[/i]] Deadliest Men these days.

    I find the timing of this programme odd too. Considering the PS3 Slim has just launched and obviously can't be judged in any objective way until it's been in homes for a while.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 19:02

  • davisorle #126 2 years ago

    @evilfoxhound

    There is no way they sent a dude from Sony to replace your console.. Either you have to admit it was NOT for sure from Sony ( cause best case if it did happen was from the store you bought it and NOT Sony ) or you have to admit that this is bollocks lol. Nothing against you but Sony doesnt even repair them for free and you tell me they sent at your house someone with a new console? rofl it just makes no sence, im sorry.

    anyhow, im not surprised the least. I havent had any worst experienced from the Sony services in my lifetime ( not only consolewise ofc... ). In order for them to repair my TVs, DVDs even CDPlayers and Cassette players back in the days I had to pay mre than 50% of the hardware's price in order to repair it. Even for calibration of my old Flat TV I paid about 150Euros ... I still remember how much i wanted to choke that dude. Ever since i couldnt take any more from Sony. Seriously. Ive spent so much money on their crap. ffs

    About the firmware issues etc i only know one person that we might talk abotu consoles and his PS3 Slim got anal after installing firmware + batman. Poor guy. I havent even asked what happened with his console though so I dont wanna lie about it. Sucks though.

  • ronuds #127 2 years ago

    "When one of my old PS3s died (Drive death), Sony actually sent a man to my house with a brand new console."

    He's called the mailman...he comes to my house too, but usually only brings bills and magazines. :(

  • gandhimaster #128 2 years ago

    Ref Sony repair

    I called Sony as PS3 was in warranty.
    Two days later courier service delivers me new PS3 and takes my fucked one away.

    It honestly is true, mate.

  • Vistrix #129 2 years ago

    Well its a nice change to the 360 failiure rates on these kinds of shows.

  • man.the.king #130 2 years ago

    What Robert Purchese so conveniently forgot (he usually tends to forget relevant facts which do not support his article's subject matter when he is "reporting" bad news for the PS3) is that the Watchdog report is based upon a sample test where they offered to repair PS3s for free; out of millions, they had 155, out of which 10 were taken, and finally, 3 were used to create their "Watchdog" report.

    It is my honest opinion that Robert has sanctimoniously decided NOT to read Sony's statement. So probably he missed this as well:
    "The testing concerned a sample of only three PS3s, which cannot, on any basis, be deemed to be representative of a UK user base of 2.5 million," stated Sony. "One of these had in addition been materially altered by the owner."

  • Power_n_Glory #131 2 years ago

    All those backing Sony and slating Watchdog are backwards. This report is good news for the consumer. Just like the much talked about RROD, it forced Microsoft to play fair and fix the consoles for free and extent the warranty for another 3 years if it ever suffered from the same problem.

    Sony will have to do the same thing if YLOD talk starts buzzing around. My brother has a PS3 60gig and he's just bought a slim because the 60 had the YLOD when it was out of warranty. Sony wanted to charge him £150 to fix it which is expensive but fair enough. But the problem was that they wouldn't extend the warranty beyond 3 months. That's taking the biscuit. So if the console breaks down again after 3 months, he'll have to pay another £150. That's no way to treat customers who paid around £400 for a launch console bundle. It's out of order.

    Eurogamer already said there was a problem with PS3's overheating and people were acting as if it was some Eurogamer conspiracy. The more light shed on this subject the better.

  • ronuds #132 2 years ago

    @ gandhimaster

    A courier and someone directly from Sony are 2 different things. I know they send couriers...but the guy doesn't go back to Sony HQ and sit at a desk after.

  • elephant_stone #133 2 years ago

    I have a launch PS3 and not had any trouble *touches all the wood in the house!*

    Ooooo Anne Robinson is on!
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 20:07

  • Emmit_Assassin #134 2 years ago

    Whilst I would love to see Fony burn in the fires of hell, I really think Watchdog are going too far with this one. It seems there are a small amount of yellow light failures, at least compared to Xbox 360's RROD. The van stunt outside Sony was exactly that, a stunt and IMO it is unfair to make out these people don't charge for repairs when Sony do (at least for 'OOW' repairs).
    As for the 'The Facts' contained in the report by SquareTrade, oh god shut up will you? It told me nothing that I didn't already know, and why the hell would Sony not want us to know this? Any idiot could find out any of this information.

  • Emmit_Assassin #135 2 years ago

    This applies to the U.K, not sure what the U.S version would be...

    Subject:

    Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.
    Relevant or Related Legislation:

    Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
    Key Facts:

    • Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

    • Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

    • Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

    • It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

    • If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

    • For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

    • A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

    • If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

    • In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

    • If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

    • After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

    You will notice the 6 years you have to have a go at any manufacturer. If Sony/MS/Nintendo make out like their machines have a 10 odd year shelf life, then they should last at least half that. That's what I deem to be reasonable use.
    If consoles are failing after one year, which apparently is the industry standard for a warranty, this should apply. If there are a major number of machines failing, then that in itself should prove there is a manufacturing fault, without the need for large scale testing and experts. Plus MS have set a precedent which a court should take into account.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 20:23

  • Halo.Jones #136 2 years ago

    So far, all I've heard is thousands and thousands of PS3's have gone kaput? Really? And where is this evidence? Also they have not presented any facts regarding the problem, showed off three owners who really didn't say anything and then do a live on air repair to see if they can fix it.

    Hmmm. BBC worried about a possible lawsuit from Sony so they have changed the format and not showed anything they originally recorded..

    ** Just taken a look at the watchdog site for the PS3 issue. This was found at the bottom of the page..

    Please note, we cannot publish any brand names and any new allegations about the Sony PlayStation 3. However you can click on Got a Story? to alert us about anything you think we should be investigating.

    http://ww w.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2009...
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/09 @ 20:45

  • Codger81 #137 2 years ago

    When did gaming stop being about the games, and start being about how your chosen brand and the technical performance of their products is fairing or how much money their making.

    How many people go to the cinema and start talking about what type of camera was used, and what profits the studio posted last quarter? Not often I expect.

  • king2001 #138 2 years ago

    They're saints I tells yuh. They can fix 4 out of 5 YLOD...hang on they've fixed that one too. Praise de loorrrrrrdddd.

  • Halo.Jones #139 2 years ago

    So, they put thermal paste on the GPU/SPU chips, popped them in the oven to "melt the solder" or was it really to bake the thermal paste and then it started working..

    Funny how the ones they fixed broke down within a week. So they didn't actually fix them then!

    As King2001 says "praise the lord" those men in a van are our saviours! Will they be going on tour? :)

  • Fudce #140 2 years ago

    The best bit of the report was the follow-up on the street-side repairs...
    "We managed to fix all eleven consoles that were brought to us, since we filmed that, four have stopped working again."

    It seems that the PRATs couldn't fix them, after all.

  • king2001 #141 2 years ago

    Yeah but a nice bit of spaghetti western singsong hilarity made everything seem better

  • seasidebaz #142 2 years ago

    So, 12000 failures. 2.5m sold.

    That would make it about 0.48% failure rate. Nice going, well below CE standards.

    Oh, and a big PICARD GOLF CLAP to Watchdog for being idiots.

  • GamesConnoisseur #143 2 years ago

    Why should it be the Watchdog lads who should fixes them anyway?! Its not their job as it was the aim of the piece, still they did illustrate how the problem could have been simply fixed for a majority of YLOD and whilst Sony would be the best people to understand why the others require further work.

    Gonna kick up a shitstorm I m sure! The piece in the tonight programme and I m sure that song 'Yellow Light of Death!' Will rings rounds the YouTube and be referred to in the forums not just here but elsewhere.

    Watch this space... how Sony will reacts in the short term as well as the PS3 owners... both the ones with YLODs or the ones who is fortunate like me not to have them.... yet or ever.

    I have a launch model with 250 hdd and wonders if I will be 90 percent or so without YLOD for other 5 to 8 years?!

    EDIT: Good news for PS3 owners what with not just Trine out on PSN right now but also via Japan PSN store you can get your mitts on Ninja Gaiden II Sigma Demo to give you some good cheers!
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 21:24

  • Atropos #144 2 years ago

    I'm one of those annoying people with a U.S. launch PS3 that is still going gangbusters. I am also a bit of a plonker, as I have cats, don't vacuum that often, keep the PS3 in a semi-enclosed space, and have lots of other electronic, heat-generating devices near it. I also use it for absolutely HOURS every day - as I have it hooked up to my mediaserver-NAS I basically watch all my telly through it, and I also have access to free PS3 games (as a former games journalist). The only time the fan even kicks up a notch is when one of the cats decides to lie on it.
    My X360 on the other hand is stood apart from the rest of my electronis, has a separate, extra fan, and is used more and more seldomly (mostly multi-format games). It has broken twice so far...
    I'm not saying YLOD doesn't exist, I've just never heard of anyone having it happen to them. So I'm going to keep my faith in Sony.

  • seasidebaz #145 2 years ago

    Comrade-Bozzey:

    Your english isn't great, but the content is there, and for that you get a +

    Well done sir.

    edit: I got a -, so to balance it out, I have a Wii PS3 and 360. All are working perfectly after lots and LOTS of use. (Except for the 360's DVD drive... Oh well)... I really think that Watchdog are scaremongering with this though, and hopefully Sony will hit them with a defamation charge to the full extent of the law.

    The programme's gone seriously downhill since Anne Robinson came back.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 21:46

  • IronCladChicken #146 2 years ago

    I didn't watch the programme, but from reading the article, it appears Watchdog are claiming Sony are refusing to repair broken PS3 (which presumably they should be fixing)... I doesnt seem to be anything about the PS3 failure rate...

    Am I getting something wrong here or are the guys defending Sony nts section) getting their wires crossed?

  • seasidebaz #147 2 years ago

    @ironclad:

    It was supposed to be about that, but it looks as though the programme was heavily edited just before airing it due to whatsisname's letter to them. Instead they were trying to say "Yeah, Sony will only admit to 12000 YLOD incidents". It was basically the worst piece of journalism I've ever had to witness. And I've seen some shit in my time.

  • MeBrains #148 2 years ago

    anybody knows where I can watch the program ? (I am in Belgium, so I would need a workaround should it be BBC iPlayer only)

    it all sounds pretty fishy. what's this with this Ian Lee-chaps?! O_o

    edit: never mind - already on youtube: http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=bDu9ePWF4gg
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 21:58

  • IronCladChicken #149 2 years ago

    @seasidebaz
    Ahh - good to know - Thanks man.

  • MeBrains #150 2 years ago

    to me & the way it was presented, I guess you could make an equally entertaining program using Wii's, Toshiba notebooks, Denon amplifiers, Samsung vacuum cleaners, Philips Fridges, AnyWay doors, TakeADump toilets as well as Sony PlayStation 3.

    Awfully strange that they used a self-proclaimed Xbox 360 fan and Microsoft employee to present it. Even more strange that they air this program a bit over two weeks after the slim's launch. I have a strong strong feeling the BBC's got a lawsuit on their hands.

  • Slo_Mo #151 2 years ago

    Wait Anne Robinson is on Xbox LIVE? Fuck no one told me.

  • Gastrian #152 2 years ago

    I wouldn't trust a single thing Watchdog say. I used to work for a governmental department that got "scrutinised" by them. They had all these people come on blasting the agency but our PR guy was not allowed to refute these accusations because it involved us talking about the complainer's particular case and we weren't given permission by the guy who was having a go at us to talk about it in public (Data Protection Act) so the PR guy had to go with the "We cannot comment on individual cases".

    Watchdog is the equivalent to Jeremy Kyle, it makes its opinions before the investigation and goes out of its way to prve its point either through deceit or preventing the accused from adequately defending themselves..

  • septimus #153 2 years ago

    I know the 360 fanboys will love this, but it's bullshit. 1% failure rate compared to the possible 50% for 360.

    I have had a PS3 fail [launch 60GB], but it was replaced pretty quickly after the idiots (which is the main problem at Sony) lost my insurance details for 48 hours. On my 6th 360, and each was gone for 3 weeks at a time. So since the launch day I have lost 15 weeks of use.

    BBC Watchdog... running out of things to look into.

    /though come to think of it, if either my 360 or PS3 Slim are running as well as my Jaguar, 3DO, CD32, SNES etc etc in the same time period I will be bloody surprised.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 22:31

  • napalm68 #154 2 years ago

    I think the whole PS3 failure has been over-exagerated so badly - even on that article here. The article here they did on the repairer forgot the fact that the repairer just gets the units that Sony and Microsoft don't cover. Microsoft cover a lot more. There is nowhere near the failure on the Sony units. I mean take for example three of us at work. I have two PS3s, they have one each. No failures. On of them has an xbox, and his brother has an xbox. He's had 2 RROD returned units. His brother one RROD, and two DOA units (including one he got for christmas so couldn't play it - boxing day took it back and got another and it was dead).

    I don't car what anyone says including this site with the SUBSET of repair units not covered by the manufacturer.

  • kipper #155 2 years ago

    It's sad to see that Sony have learned Robert Maxwell's favourite trick of pre-emptively threatening to sue for libel anyone who had any unpleasant accusations.

    RIP the BBC's proud tradition of independent journalism.

  • EvilBob_leeds #156 2 years ago

    I hate to break to you but the "BBC's proud tradition of independent journalism" was very much already dead - they gave this clown a job

  • owl #157 2 years ago

    Firstly, the 360 came out and is as close to perfect as you can get. Don’t get me wrong, I may be in the employ of Microsoft to write this column, but there is no way I’m taking dirty money.

    god that article is atrocious

    owl is not employed on a freelance basis by Microsoft. The views in this column are those of the author and not of MSN or Microsoft.

    Microsoft owns MSN UK and Xbox.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/09 @ 22:57

  • KayJay #158 2 years ago

    God that program was painful. Absolute tripe...
    Also from the Sony reply "Fewer than one half of one per cent of units have been reported as failing in circumstances where the yellow indicator is illuminated."

    So whats that... 0.50% ?!?

    Jesus thats nothing. Watchdog made out of was some sort of epidemic. Terrible program.

  • GamesConnoisseur #159 2 years ago

    I m seeing deja vu of people in complete denial of the whole supposedly above 'normal' machine failure rate as it was a couple of years ago before the mass acceptance of the problems.

    DocBarnett, and other PS3 owners who dared to owns up to PS3 YLODs are all the martyrs and they are the scums that people doesnt want to acknowledge?

    People who got their PS3 repaired for free all are actors and in the pay of MS in the programme?

    I fully agree the programme is shite and they got few details wrong, ie giving impression of £400 price tag for new PS3 today when same advert of £249.99 PS3 Slim is clearly featured.

    But to deny the YLOD even exist is extreme fanboyism in same content as denial of X360 as having RROD issue, IT doesnt meant that will certainly happens to you. I was one who doubted such issue exists until it happened to my mate.. twice! And then 2 of his PS3 mates came forward. 1 never bothered to get it repaired and now one more PS3 gathering dust.

    Would have been active and being lovingly used if Sony had a different warranty and repair policy (beyond measly 1 year!).

    Sure even if only 5 or 10 percent much far less than X360.. but to claim only 1 percent or normal 3 percent failure rate? Maybe you are right but from what information coming out of the PS3 owners mouth... I m not too sure!! Depends who in your circle perhaps?

    Go ahead negative score my post if you want... wont change the debate that is going around now.

    Truth will out whether its a real conspiracy of Xbots or the Sony fans in denials... or bits of both?!

  • kipper #160 2 years ago

    @ Owl and EvilBob
    Sure, Ian Lee's column is rather silly and childish at times, but it's an _opinion_ column.

    Watchdog intended to report some information about PS3 failures and their miserly warranty period, and Sony appear to have squashed it by threatening the lawyers. That's what I don't like.

  • owl #161 2 years ago

    fair enough it's his opinion but it's also a horribly written column, with or without the screaming bias.

  • MeBrains #162 2 years ago

    kipper: did you at all read Sony's letter? There is not a word in it which refers to lawsuits. Nothing. They just pointed out some things which were wrong with the program and its approach and mentioned that it could harm the brands PlayStation as well as Sony as a whole.

  • Shikasama #163 2 years ago

    It's truly excellent how people have gone on the proper high horse about this issue. Watchdog are speaking 100% crap and Sony are speaking 100% truth. Watchdog are speaking 100% truth and Sony are speaking 100% crap.

    Sony are a godawful company that uses very, very dirty tactics across its entire product range. Watchdog is a godawful show that succumbs to sensationalism to make a point.

    The truth between two parties always lies in the middle my friends.

  • MeBrains #164 2 years ago

    shikasama: I agree the truth will be somewhere in the middle. 0.5% defect rate sounds indeed low from Sony's part and I do not take all Sony's letter for granted. They do make some valid points though and I do think the actual defect rate does not warrant a prime time report on it. WD did mention they received 150 mails on 2.5 million UK users - is that enough to have somebody working for and being fan off reporting on the issue?

  • drumbaby #165 2 years ago

    So, the PS3 should have more than 1 year warranty, with its 0.5% failure rate, even though 1 year warranty was standard for PS1, PS2, Xbox 1,....oh, and Xbox 360 (before it turned out to be a piece of kit with scandalous failure rates needing 3 yr band-aid guarantee as way of avoiding law suits galore)?

    Nice one BBC. And top choice of quasi-comic Msoft shill reporter to add weight to your story.

    Excellent use of our license fee!

  • Fudce #166 2 years ago

    @Shikasama: There is clearly an issue with the Playstation 3. People are reporting errors with their console showing the YLOD, and over a hundred people wrote into Watchdog to report the problem (I remember reading the exact number, and it's somewhere around 125. However I don't believe that it is one single problem.

    In Sony's letter to the BBC, they explain that the YLOD is not an indicator for one problem, it is an indicator for many problems, and that in order to diagnose which problem it is, the console needs to be examined by them. This is in contrast to what the Watchdog experts said, and they reported that by doing their jizz in the inside and then cooking the console in their oven, they can get the console working again - albeit with a 37% failure rate within a few weeks. That failure rate indicates that their solution fixes some of the problems, but not all of them.

    The real problem with the Watchdog report wasn't the fact that they were bringing it to light, it was the manner in which they did it. They failed to invite a Sony representitive into the studio to give their side of the story. They made sensations out of facts that are very normal, such as the 12 month waranty (oh god! a piece of electronics has a normal length waranty!?) and she spent more time flirting with the guys than giving us the information that we needed.

    The final indicator was the use of Iain Lee as the reporter - not because he blogs on MSN, but because he is a self confessed Microsoft Fanboy. In the end, he didn't get much of an outing, but the use of him was possibly a way of trolling Sony into making a rash comment, which they didn't do.

    Ideally Sony should take a further look at the YLOD failures, and if they do find out what is causing them and a way to prevent them, offer free in-waranty or cheap out-of-waranty 'vacinations'.

  • Zephro #167 2 years ago

    It was a very tiresome show full of terrible journalism. Sometimes I do wonder if they shouldn't just put journalists on a crash course in science and engineering.

    As no particular fan of Sony's their tolerance and warranty are all with legal boundaries. No matter how many people post that they, their brothers, their brothers friends cousins etc. Or that Watchdog can trot out 11 people with broken consoles. It doesn't amount to anything more than anecdotal evidence. Now I'm sure Sony aren't 100% honest about that 12,000 figure but seriously people need to stop listening to whoever shouts the loudest.

    Any modern electronics has a failure rate. It cannot be engineered out of systems, it's an inhuman task. Everything we own has some failure rate, all that can be decently expected is that companies minimise this not eliminate. Once people get this into their thick heads and think like engineers we'll be better off.

  • painstick #168 2 years ago

    Watchdog PS3 report was pretty poor indeed, 0.5% success rate in reporting I feel.

    However, of that 0.5% they did manage to point out at least one thing I had to agree with a bit...

    The clip of the Sony CEO stating his vision of the console lasting 10 years seems somewhat hollow when they only provide a 1 year warranty. I realise this is standard practice in Consumer Electronics, but if 10 years really is SONY's long-term vision for this Gen, then they should back that up with a longer standard PS3 warranty. 3 years would seem reasonable. Not financially viable I'm sure, but a serious heat-generating object like a PS3 lasting 10 years is a tad optimistic.

    I've had two PS3s fail on me. Although both of those issues were Blu-Ray drive failure and luckily in-warranty. If that had happened out of warranty I might well have felt quite 'out in the cold' like those three poor, sad-faced PS3 owners on Watchdog. Mind you, £128 to repair out-of-warranty is crazy and bound to alienate those who encounter problems.

  • Calgon #169 2 years ago

    No doubt I will be labeled a troll for this post but I feel after the amount of trolls who've popped up in 360 threads chiming in on reliability for no apparent reason, I cannot ignore this particular article and more importantly the reaction from the PS3 fans. So I will make this one post and leave it at that.

    The same people who were probably cheering Watchdog for sticking it to MS twice over (RROD and also Disc Scratching) have now turned on them.

    Are there really people here stupid enough to beleive the PS3 failure rate is 1%? Or that this problem is all completely made up?

    I dont really like watchdog, it's the type of show for people who like to moan a little too much and exagerates everything(so poor journalism is probably right).

    One thing I knew I was right about is PS3 fanboys are complete hypocrites and they are doing damage control like crazy over this.

    Kenshin001's post(#89) sums it up nicely, there is evidence now that suggests the PS3 does fail for similar reasons to the 360, we've heard this from companies/people who fix the consoles for a living(see the EG article from a couple of weeks back and Napalm68 did YOU forget the ones that MS dont cover are the ones over 3 years old which had the highest failure rates and that PS3 is the younger console with the better cooling meaning it will happen more slowly if it happens? ;) )... I think they'd know a damn sight more about it than someone who knows "loads of people with PS3s and not one of them has failed so thats 100% right there... FACT".

    Get a grip the problem does exist, 5% is complete and utter bullshit(perhaps you better look at some of the independent surveys done) it's too high to ignore but nobody is saying it's as bad as launch 360s. The nature of the failure itself means that Sony should be responsible for covering the repair costs not the consumer who's simply playing games on it as intended.

    If the failure rates of this nature arent that high to begin with, then it shouldn't be too much of a big deal for Sony right? The problem is how is the consumer to know what the nature of their PS3 failure is? This being the case, can we really trust Sony to be honest to their customers, if it's left to them to tell the consumer what the nature of the problem is and whether they'll have to pay for the repair? I'm not so sure on that one, personally I think they are the slipperiest of the bunch and it will probably be hard to force their hand on it(i.e. they wont offer to fix them for free).
    Edited by 3 at 18/09/09 @ 02:34

  • drumbaby #170 2 years ago

    "Watchdog established a repair team outside Sony's UK HQ earlier this month, complete with branded van, and filmed 11 users getting their consoles repaired for free. During the show tonight, it admitted four of those consoles repaired by "experts" were no longer working."

    That's from G.I.BIZ...

    So, not only were the people with broken PS3s the victim of evil corporation Sony, but now they've fallen victim to lackadaisical consumer champions Watchdog's incompetent repair team. They must be REALLY happy now. Probably should have paid for repairs, I guess? How easy will it be for Sony to fix a custom baked console, I wonder?

  • Bazfrag #171 2 years ago

    Hey look at me Ma. I'm a consumer journaloid!

  • Erebu #172 2 years ago

    YLOD means "hardware Error" and could be anything. I didn't know BBC turned into FOX.

  • Fab4 #173 2 years ago

    I'm still on my first PS3 while I've now had three 360s. I'd also say that they were, for the most part, used in equal measure. Tells me all I need to know.

  • Bazfrag #174 2 years ago

    "5% is complete and utter bullshit"

    Your right. 12000 of 2.5 million is morelike 0.5% :)

    You should see if Auntie has any vacancies.
    Edited by 1 at 18/09/09 @ 09:06

  • Hix15 #175 2 years ago

    I don't see why everyone is so defensive of a piece of consumer electronics, i for one would rather have my console or any other item i had purchased fixed for no additional cost if i had been using it as intended.
    I cannot comment on figures as there have been non officially announced but there is still enough to feature on a nation wide TV show.

  • Edwin #176 2 years ago

    Trouble is, I came into work this morning and people were talking about the PS3 fail rate as though it was fact now!!

    Goebbels found this sort of thing helpfull.

  • stevethemeat #177 2 years ago

    Currently on Ebay there are

    114 faulty PS3's for sale. 497 in completed listings.
    and
    273 Xbox 360's, 1065 completed listings.

    Taking these figures, theres over twice as many 360's failing, but theres no hiding the fact that there is a problem with the PS3, which seeing that its the newer console could increase in the future.



  • SeesThroughAll #178 2 years ago

    Trouble is, I came into work this morning and people were talking about the PS3 fail rate as though it was fact now!!

    Well, it IS a fact that there is an issue. We'll have to wait and see how Sony reacts to this Watchdog show.

    One thing is certain: despite the precedent set by the competition, they won't extend everyone's warranty to three years. They simply don't have the money.

  • penhalion #179 2 years ago

    Glad to see the PS3 faithful out in force over this one :)

    The fact is that there is a known defect in the PS3 fats and it looks like it will eventually cause the majority of them to fail out of warranty. Sony are denying the fault because they don't want to foot the bill for it and the idiotic sony fanboys (man I haven't used that word in a while) are helping them do it. I guess it's fun to defend a big organisation. Fun that is, until your own machine is hit with the defect and you are asked to pay 150 quid to get it fixed.

  • El-Dev #180 2 years ago

    "finanitial disaster"

    Is this some sort of new SONYFAIL!!!?

  • Zephro #181 2 years ago

    Anyone else getting the impression basic statistics needs to be drilled into people at school?

    Also hear hear MilkybKid1985

  • GreyBeard #182 2 years ago

    @Penhalion

    No, there isn't a "fact" that there is a problem. A < 1% failure rate is well within legal limits.

  • ps3owner #183 2 years ago

    I haven't seen the show, but I just hope that if mine fails it will fail once the PS3 price has dropped to £150.. then I don't care ;)

  • Skooch #184 2 years ago

    I think Sony doth protest too much.

  • KayJay #185 2 years ago

    "Also hear hear MilkybKid1985"
    Why?
    He is talking out of he arse too...

    "(about the same as the PS3 when you took out the RROD) "
    What does this mean..?
    The Failure rate for the PS3 in the UK is 0.50% (That is half of one Percent) and Worldwide it is around 10%...
    The faliure rate for the 360 is almost 25%. you cannot compare...

    All the Sony Fanboy this, Sony Fanboy that by the perennial 360 trolls coming in to mix it up, you really are very boring. And if any of the 360 Fanboys think that the rather pathetic & laughable program last night did anything to help you in your fight against the Sony Corporation you would be very silly.
    Edited by 2 at 18/09/09 @ 10:02

  • Zephro #186 2 years ago

    No I believe he was correct, the 6 year warranty thing simply doesn't apply here.

  • SeesThroughAll #187 2 years ago

    @ kj66246:

    I'm a PS3 fanboy too, and I do believe there is a problem. I believe in the 10% failure rate as a more likely estimate than the official numbers Sony tells people, if any...

    If the failure rate is worse than industry standard, then Sony should be held responsible! Simple as.
    Edited by 1 at 18/09/09 @ 10:05

  • KayJay #188 2 years ago

    He is not correct.
    Go and have a look at any of the information sites regarding the European purchasing laws.
    Go and have a proper read. Unless you have been throwing the thing across the room you should be well covered.
    Wear and tear my arse. it sits under the TV and I push a disc in and out of it.

    If the thing goes pop I will be straight down to Game and getting it fixed for free or getting them to replace it.
    Which if you have a read around thats what people have been doing, and the retailers have been having to accept this.

  • SeesThroughAll #189 2 years ago

    Oh, thanks to bioreit for explaining me about the RDE lawsuit events (#121)! I was indeed curious about what had happened in full.
    Edited by 2 at 18/09/09 @ 10:14

  • KayJay #190 2 years ago

    SeesThroughAll - Have Sony ever said there wasn't a problem. Have they ever refused to fix the machine (Yeah at a price, but this is no different to any other consumer electrical item).
    I have heard plenty of stories of Sony just sending out replacement machines outside of warranty without question.

    And its a general rule that if you have been wronged you bang on about it but if you have received a good service generally you don't leave feedback or jump onto gaming forums and say how great it was.

    There is a problem but not to the scale some seem to be suggesting it is. They are relatively small numbers.*

    *I am not saying there is not a problem, its just that there are so many people who want it to be a bigger problem than it is.

  • onyxbox #191 2 years ago

    My Samsung telly developed a fault after 2 and a half years.

    I phoned Samsung who responded with "we only cover the first 12 months"

    I rang Comet's help line several times and every response I got was telling me I was wasting my time because I didn't have extended warranty.

    I then rang Consumer Direct and they asked me how much I'd paid and when did I buy the telly. They then sent me a load of paperwork to fill in to take them to court and advised me to take the TV into the showroom, ask to see the manager and say "Under the Sales of Goods act I don't believe the product you sold me is of satisfactory quality and I would like you to repair it, even though it is out of warranty"

    So I took it back to Comet, quoted the Sales of Goods act, I had to pay £30 to have an engineer identify it was indeed "component failure" and about 3 weeks later I got a full refund towards another telly.

    Result!

    Like people here are saying: stuff breaks all the time and in this case Samsung aren't responsible after 12 months but the shop that sold it ARE... go after them... their profit margins on these things already cover the failure rate.

    Microsoft introduced 3 yr warranty because if they hadn't the shops wouldn't take the risk of stocking them or they would have slapped a massive margin on the RRP to cover the returns.

    Sony may have a problem with YLOD but it's probably just about within the limits... and for those that have this happen out of warranty... I'd try it on with the store anyway (like I did with my telly)

    :-)
    Edited by 1 at 18/09/09 @ 10:45

  • MeBrains #192 2 years ago

    "And its a general rule that if you have been wronged you bang on about it but if you have received a good service generally you don't leave feedback or jump onto gaming forums and say how great it was."

    Shakespeare said this oh so well with: "The good men do is oft interred with the bones, the evil lives after them."

    remember! it is a universal truth.

  • Amon_Amarth #193 2 years ago

    i still got the release versuin

  • alex_m #194 2 years ago

    svd_grasshopper "wonder if any slims have gone tits up.

    probably too soon to tell..."

    I had mines 14 days and it started making a very strange popping noise followed by freezing XMB, to be fair to Sony they where going to send a new one despite not have continuous protection, said latest I would get my new console would be Monday morning. They would then arrange to pick up the old one at same time, its easy to moan but can't fault them for a quick response. As for Toys R Us thats another matter, it took me 3 days of going to trading standards and T'RU head office before they finally relented and gave me a new product.

    I edited my post to ask does anyone else think Watchdog has been dumbed down, used to be a good consumer advice show but now it seems to want to be some sort of comedy type programme full of witty one line answers. Its almost like the Watchdog meets The Weakest Link in some of the new shows. Anne Robinson also seems to have forgotten you can smile now and again, never thought I would say this but bring back Nicky Campbell.
    Edited by 1 at 18/09/09 @ 10:55

  • Darren #195 2 years ago

    Well I can only speak from personal experience but I never had any problems with my launch PS2 or launch PS3, the latter of which is almost 2.5 years old now. I've had bad experiences with the Xbox consoles though... the original machine died after 10 days back in March 2002, the replacement developed the dreaded "dirty disc error" and I've been through more than five or six Xbox 360s, ironically it was the launch machine that lasted the longest at 17 months, later models have been less reliable.

    Of course, my experiences don't mean anything other than I've been lucky with Sony and not so lucky with Microsoft. That said, the 360s reliability issues have been notorious but I didn't think the failure rate for the PS3 was that bad it would be mentioned by Watchdog. I'm actually surprised to be honest although I know Sony are no strangers themselves to hardware issues as the PS2 had problems with its DVD drive failing.

  • Dillinger #196 2 years ago

    this generation of consoles SUCKS.

  • Skooch #197 2 years ago

    Me thinks Sony doth protest too much!

  • KayJay #198 2 years ago

    @ MilkybKid1985:
    I read it and commented on it too...
    It indicated to me that there were no comparisions or that it was diffucilt to compare the so called RROD and YLOD problems. Even in the conclusion they say that the Wii is great, the 360 is terrible and they dont even mention the PS3.
    I just don't think you can put the two problems on the same level.
    Edited by 1 at 18/09/09 @ 12:05

  • M_of_the_sys #199 2 years ago

    @ MilkybKid1985

    Why are you taking out the RROD? That's like saying "It would've been a goal if the keeper hadn't saved it."
    "They would be on the same failure rate if this console didn't have these particular failures."

    Am I missing something here?

  • KayJay #200 2 years ago

    M_of_the_sys - Thats what I wanted to say?!? Why would we not include the RROD?

    menfol.

  • bioreit #201 2 years ago

    @ kj66246

    "SeesThroughAll - Have Sony ever said there wasn't a problem. Have they ever refused to fix the machine (Yeah at a price, but this is no different to any other consumer electrical item)."

    Actually, that is different. If the reason for the failure was down to a manufacturing fault, then even the fact that there are 'only' 12,000 YLOD failures shows that it is not down to consumer mis-use, nor even normal wear-and-tear, but down to problems that were inherent within the machine from the moment it was created. Therefore, if someone has a breakdown with this particular fault, then under UK law, within a reasonable period of time up to 6 years (and I think it's fair to say most would agree an expensive electrical item should last more than 12 months!), Sony should fix it for free.

    Other companies do it - I got my Samsung HTZ-310R dvd player repaired 9 months out of warranty by Samsung (who are notorious for not repairing out of warranty failures) after a mere two phone calls. Pointing to the vast numbers of Internet forums and posts about similar failures was sufficient to satisfy the "after 6 months, the onus is on the consumer to prove the fault existed" element of the Sale of Goods Act - and I didn;t deal with the retailer (Dixons) either!

    So yes, I'm afraid it IS different if Sony are charging consumers for out of warranty repairs for faults that are Sony's responsibility.

    Other problems are obviously the consumer's problem.

  • lbertacc #202 2 years ago

    I had a PS3 failure after 4 months!

    And I am not alone look at this:
    [link url=http://videogame-market.bl ogspot.com/2008/04/truth-behind-ps3-failure-rate-plague.html
    ]http://vi deogame-market.blogspot.com/200...[/link]

    I believe that Sony has become more able with cover up than selling vg console

  • zedzee #203 2 years ago

    Watchdog says first of all that the console costs £400 - obviously that's incorrect - although they mention that a new model has been released, but they don't say anything about the new price for the PS3slim.

    I don't understand what the complaint is about. Is it that Sony are charging for the repair, the cost of the repair, the unreliability of the hardware or something else?

    What I would like to see is that while any console is under the warranty (the question of how long the warranty should be is another debate), every attempt should be made to diagnose and fix the fault. If not possible, then (unless it's the HDD - in which case a new HDD should be provided with an 'attempt' at salvaging the data from the dead one) a NEW console should be provided to the customer (as a good will gesture) - not a refurb - and all games, photos, music on the HDD restored to the replacement unit, at no extra cost. All for FREE.

    If the machine is out of warranty, and no extended shop warranty was taken out etc, then it's the customer's choice as to what they want to do. Get the unit fixed (again, the cost of repair is another debate), get a refurb replacement (I think it's fair that out of warranty units get replaced with refurbs) for FREE (excluding P&P/courier costs) or go out and get the now cheaper model.

    I made these comments when the different model specs were being debated (around the time of the launch, actually) and people were rightly asking questions such as: What if my model has BC and I get a replacement that doesn't (new or refurbished)?!

    Again, this would need a separate debate...But for this Watchdog report, I'm failing to see what point they're trying to make. If this was made clear, then perhaps I'd be able to intelligently comment on the whole damn thing.

    Edited by 2 at 18/09/09 @ 14:44

  • MeBrains #204 2 years ago

    @ibertac: come on - a blogpost with an amazing two articles, which begins with the Belgian Game Mania story, linking to a (Dutch) page mentioning that both Sony, as well as Game Mania apologize for the confusion and that the 40% was misunderstood?!

    http://www.gamed.nl/vi ew/33860 ("Deze cijfers zijn volgens Sony en Game Mania totaal niet representatief en gebaseerd op een ongelukkige samenloop van omstandigheden. Beide partijen vragen dan ook om een rechtzetting van deze berichtgeving.";)

    a blogpost which has about 1 user every 1.5 months complaining their console is defective?

    a blogpost linking to forum topics which barely run a few pages?

    you honestly believe that? you should be part of the X-Files man!

  • des #205 2 years ago

    Reactions from hardcore Sony fans remind me of 360 RROD fiasco,no,no,no its not true,even Sony reply was like previous MS ones...just keep the good fight,when your machine craps out Sony will gladly take your money

    The fact that you can bring those units back to life by baking it in some oven tells a lot...no amount of heat will repair broken transistors,resistors,cpu,gpu,etc,etc...its a manufacturing defect and all the blame goes to Sony

  • influenceuk #206 2 years ago

    I saw the show, they blamed Gas bubble on the motherboard. However other sources i have read say that its to do with the alignment of the chips. Basically the heat realigns the 2 chips in the PS3, and bingo the console is resurrected!

  • EvilBob_leeds #207 2 years ago

    If you think that last nights piece was a poor piece of journalism complain - http://www. bbc.co.uk/complaints/homepage/

  • Shikasama #208 2 years ago

    What this thread proves is that brand loyalty still seems to be a major vehicle for how people define themselves.

    God, I love huge multinational corporation A. So much more than huge multinational corporation B.

  • M_of_the_sys #209 2 years ago

    @Shikasama

    I think you'll find that all the threads prove that.

  • clearblue #210 2 years ago

    as already mentioned (probably):
    - quote the sales of goods act
    - take the power back!
    - REVOLUTION!
    - ahem...

    [link url=ht tp://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page3831 1.html#Q3Areallgoodssupposedtolastsixorfiveyears
    ]http://ww w.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumer...[/link]


  • Grayvern #211 2 years ago

    Watchdog has 155 complaints that's out of 2 million+ uk units even if there were 10 times as many who didn't complain it would still be in the acceptable area. Watchdog isn't taking similarly complex devices to court.

    The 360 issue was red ring of death and associated heating issues that don't have to cause RROD but gfx card faults. PS3 yellow deaths may come from similar issues but are by all accounts far more rare.

    I'm also inclined to side with sony given watchdogs woeful way of reporting, there reporting on the RROD was hardly above tabloid level rubbish.

    Also people should really stop complaining about the service they get from sony for the ps3 because you get the best of their consumer goods service and people with £1000+ dslr's get lumped with you as well and are probably passed up because of you. (5 weeks to change a focusing screen is taking the sodding piss)
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/09 @ 13:04

  • WayMucho #212 2 years ago

    Well I'm a self confessed xbot and there's no way you can compare the PS3's few failures with the RROD. I think MS did a good job of fixing it, but they screwed up big time in the beginning. And this is nothing like the PS2 either - I thik Sony should have done something about that. I think Sony can feel quite hard done by and I' sure the lawyers will be talking to the BBC
    Got to hand it to Nintendo though - I've had my Wii for over 2 years and have had at least 12 hours of untroubled gaming out of it (which reminds me, I haven't dusted it for a while)

  • smelly #213 2 years ago

    >I think Sony doth protest too much.

    0.5% of ps3's break apparently.
    Compared to something like 50% of 360's?

    My ps3 hasnt died on me yet (although i admit - i dont use it much), my 360 is on it's 9th replacement!

    Why on hell is anne robinson picking on the ps3 when the 360 is obviously a MUCH bigger problem (and one where you ONLY get a replacement outside of warantee if you have the RROD)?
    Edited by 1 at 21/09/09 @ 00:58

  • smelly #214 2 years ago

    >I had a PS3 failure after 4 months!
    >I believe that Sony has become more able with cover up than selling vg console


    So - it was under warantee and you got a free replacement - your problem is?

    It's consumer electronics... Any piece of consumer electronics is going to have a SMALL failure rate - it's the nature of the beast.. it's when it hits large percentages like more than 10% (or 50!!!) it becomes a problem!

  • jkerr91 #215 2 years ago

    My 2 cents worth are that... Watchdog are over exaggerating as always when it comes to their consumer guidance. Its always the same. They use out of date statistics/pricing to make it sound worse than it is.
    I used to own an Xbox 360 and currently own a PS3. The 360 i had was a core launch model. It died with the RROD after about a year. I had it repaired and it kept on breaking down. I eventually got rid and saved up for a 40g PS3. I've had the PS3 coming up for 2 years now and apart from the odd crash, I've not had a problem with it. However.. I expect any piece of equipment that i fork out a good couple of hundred quid to work for at least 4-5yrs without breaking down. (assuming its kept well and not abused lol) My flat mates Japanese 80g launch model broke down with the YLOD. But i reckon that was because the numpty used to fall asleep and left it on overnight in a messy, dirty room. Twat!
    Anyways, as far as i'm concerned both have had there problems but i'm yet to have any with my PS3 (touch wood) and until i do i'm more than happy with it :)

    Now i'm away to go and check that its still working after cursing it like that!! :S