Codies versus pre-owned game sales

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 16 November, 2010

Sell half a game in shops, the rest as DLC.

F1 2010 creator Codemasters has a novel idea it could use to combat the threat of second hand videogame sales – sell half a game in shops and the other half as downloadable content.

That, according to CEO Rod Cousens, would not only help tackle the earnings lost from used game sales but piracy, too.

"It's not inconceivable to say that we send out a Formula One game that's not complete - maybe it's got six tracks," he told Eurogamer sister site GamesIndustry.biz.

"Then they have to buy their next track, and you follow it around the world. When you turn up in Abu Dhabi you have to pay for the circuit, and whatever the changes are to the cars that are put through.

"That, I think, would deal with a lot of it, and also address the pre-owned."

If Codies follows through on its idea, it expects resistance from shops.

"What we have to figure out is how we're going to work together to make this happen," Cousens said.

"If retail takes a confrontational point of view and says that if we go online, they won't stock the box - and publishers then say that all they're going to do is put out DLC after launch that retail can't participate in... it's ridiculous.

"Actually, you need them to get to the stage where they stock the box. It's not inconceivable that you're going to ask them to give the box away at some point in time. But then, they participate to an extent in the subsequent DLC exploitation."

Ah, exploitation. How we've missed you.

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (95) Latest comment 11 months ago

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  • uknortherner2000 #1 2 years ago

    I have an even better idea. How about none of my money now, and some of my money once the GOTY edition comes out?

  • jidnffc #2 2 years ago

    How about they realise that every other consumer item that isn't perishable manages to deal with a second hand market, and people in the games industry shouldn't think that for some reason they're exempt.

  • lcmnick #3 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 12:48:44 14-04-2012

  • JoeGBallad #4 2 years ago

    I've got an even better idea for all these companies that don't don't like second hand sales: how about, er, fuck off?

  • weejok #5 2 years ago

    "DLC exploitation" - Well that just says it all really :(

  • RobTheBuilder #6 2 years ago

    Why can't publishers just talk to retailers and negotiate a small resale fee on pre-owned??
    You'd think this was the Palestine/Israel conflict the way they go on about it.

  • actionfitz #7 2 years ago

    How about both retailers and publishers go fuck themselves and devs self publish direct to consumers online?

    :)

    not gonna happen soon, but not so unlikely for smaller titles in the distant future :p

  • DrunkDec #8 2 years ago

    Most people will be happy with 6 tracks, you've just halved the value of your sales

  • Trigga_Tybalt #9 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 15:43:01 23-02-2012

  • Gambit1977 #10 2 years ago

    How about £15rrp please

  • menschenfracht #11 2 years ago

    2 DrunkDec
    sadly to say, they won't, if they will be advertised another dozen

  • actionfitz #12 2 years ago

    Oh and may we presume he intends to sell the first half at half price?
    in that case many will settle for that and not go near his DLC :)

  • ricpamiwor #13 2 years ago

    @RobTheBuilder - Exactly what I was thinking, this would nip the problem in the bud surely!

    To be honest unless piracy is properly tackled (I don't know how btw) developers are going to keep doing this sort of thing. On one hand you can't blame them because the community keep letting them down by pirating games in the millions! Just look at the stats that came out recently for the number of pirated downloads of StarCraft II.

    Forgot to mention the other hand! On the other hand you can blame them for coming up with the most cockamamie ideas known to man!
    Edited by ricpamiwor at 16/11/10 @ 13:34

  • uknortherner2000 #14 2 years ago

    "You'd think this was the Palestine/Israel conflict the way they go on about it. "

    Nah, at least with Israel/Palestine, there's some hope for peace. There's fuck all hope for publishers to see sense.

  • BraveArse #15 2 years ago

    Half a game now? That's what they did on launch anyway isn't it? I'll say it again. The only way to get a good value Codies game is to wait 6 months for the patches to come out and the price to drop to £20. F1 2010 just emphasised that to me.

  • Hermiod #16 2 years ago

    @uknortherner2000 - GOTY edition ? I would have thought that only one game a year gets to have one of those - and this year's certainly isn't going to be F1.

  • ClaretMatt #17 2 years ago

    Didn't they already road test this with F1 2010 when they sold us the half-finished game then made us download the rest to make it a halfway decent experience.

  • LosCapitan #18 2 years ago

    @RobTheBuilder, @ricpamiwor

    I'm assuming every publisher in the world has asked retail for a cut on pre-owned, and I'm guessing every retailer in the world has told them to get stuffed!

    Why SHOULD they? They can see that eventually everything will go digital (look at the bath they're taking on music right now!) and high street retail will become irrelevent. All the more reason to line your coffers NOW while you can, selling the same copy you bought wholesale for £15 or so 5 times over?

    It's a fight neither will win: we can only hope it doesn't choke the industry out in the meantime!

  • ThrowingTuba #19 2 years ago

    Hmmm.... Project $25?

    I do feel for developers and publishers when it comes to the 2nd hand market, especiailly as the bulk of it is being monopolised by huge stores such as Game / HMV, hell even Asda and Tesco, who simply pocket the cash.

    Still, I think sorting out the RRP, taking peer to peer swaps into account and offering bonus DLC is more suitable.

    Also, what about the people who aren't connected to the internet?

  • uknortherner2000 #20 2 years ago

    @Hermiod: Ah yes, but we all know GOTY is merely a throwaway term these days for "complete game on a disc".

  • Fab4 #21 2 years ago

    The fact that DLC is currently only 'rentable' is a far bigger gaming crime.

    You don't want people buying 2nd-hand games en masse? Make the games worth keeping. I still have games for my Commodore 64...I never play them any more, but they hold a sentimental value worth more than money.
    Edited by Fab4 at 16/11/10 @ 13:21

  • PixelPirate #22 2 years ago

    I am sick of this "we are loosing sales" argument, it holds no weight.

    If I buy the game, i am entitled to sell it to whom i see fit. No different for the shops, its called enterprise

  • ricpamiwor #23 2 years ago

    @LosCapitan - I understand that but without any measures in this interim we will see silly solutions like the one Codies are suggesting here! Granted I was being a bit hopeful agreeing with RobTheBuilder but sometimes I just hope that these big retailers and publishers will do something sensible and what the consumer wants.

  • coojam #24 2 years ago

    @jidnffc

    "How about they realise that every other consumer item that isn't perishable manages to deal with a second hand market, and people in the games industry shouldn't think that for some reason they're exempt."

    While I think the second-hand market is an important part of the industry, can you name any other non-perishables that are sold second hand in all major supermarkets?

  • homerramone #25 2 years ago

    Arent EA almost doing this already and calling it the online pass ?

    Course its a great idea .. especially for those who dont want to go online with their games consoles. Maybe this idea could be extended to books, CDs, movies etc..

  • Lee_Morris #26 2 years ago

    If other consumer markets had digital foundations like the games industry then you could be sure as shit that they would be doing the same thing too. Good on em I say. If you don't think people deserve to be paid then you can fuck off cause you'll pripple this industry.

  • nooneyouknow #27 2 years ago

    Rod Cousens "don't say exploit, don't say exploit, don't say.... fuck"

    RobTheBuilder & ricpamiwor,

    Agree totally - i think that (if they simply must try and monetise pre-owned sales) publishers should carry on with the VIP/Online passes but make them available for retail to purchase so they can put them back in the box when selling pre-owned.
    That way, not punishing the consumer AND getting a little back from retail.

  • ZizouFC #28 2 years ago

    I guess technically it would work if this means pirates would only get half the game etc - but what about people without uncapped net (or any internet at all)?

    Like me...

  • StevilKnevil #29 2 years ago

    "It's not inconceivable to say that we send out a Formula One game that's not complete[ly working]"

    Edited by StevilKnevil at 16/11/10 @ 13:25

  • LosCapitan #30 2 years ago

    @nooneyouknow

    "Agree totally - i think that (if they simply must try and monetise pre-owned sales) publishers should carry on with the VIP/Online passes but make them available for retail to purchase so they can put them back in the box when selling pre-owned.
    That way, not punishing the consumer AND getting a little back from retail."

    +1, +1, +1.

    :-)

  • Mr_Brown #31 2 years ago

    Then I simply won't buy your games. Or how about they half the RRP price then if we are only getting half the content? Makes you wonder why they cannot come up with a totality scheme. The prevalence of pre owned games is the fault of retailers anyway. By over pricing new games and making 80 - 90% of their shelve space to pre owned titles. So why should it be is that lose out? I'll add Codies to the boycott list along with anything that includes kinect.

  • Rodster #32 2 years ago

    I really don't mind if they did this BUT the game better cost $14.95 USD at retail.

  • IronGiant #33 2 years ago

    What is this obsession with the second hand market.. Quite simply there are many people who cannot afford or can't justify spending 40+ quid on a game so these are not lost sales at all. Price all new games at £15-20 and they become cheap enough for an impulse buy and will tempt gamers who'd normally wait for a price drop or second hand purchase.

  • gjgjg #34 2 years ago

    Not really a novel idea. Also won't really work for a few more years as so many are still with limited net.
    Just sell the boxed product via phone mail order / web site. Or threaten to do so until the retailers give up some 2nd hand profit

  • arcam #35 2 years ago

    That fact that most people don't even bother to complete their games tells me this is not a good idea. They'll sell just as many copies at half the price, but only a fraction of the audience will ever reach the stage where they need to pay more.

    Basically, this would be great for consumers (potentially), but it won't earn Codemasters any more money.

  • Chazmeister #36 2 years ago

    Codemasters don't even bother to properly finish and support games they charged full price for as it is (I'm looking at you OPFlash: DR). So there's no way in hell I'm going to buy half a game from them on the promise that they'll provide a decent second half as DLC, because they can't even deliver that with their full games.

  • BabyJesus #37 2 years ago

    So they are pissed off with retailers BUT they need them so they'll fleece the consumer instead.

    Should I drop my pants now or do you want me to give you power of attorney for foreplay?

    Every bloody industry is going anti-consumer crazy, FUCK YOU ALL.

    Cunts.

  • Machetazo #38 2 years ago

    WTF!

    NOT impressed. Hopelessly naive for Codies to think this will get anybody anywhere.

    There needs to be flexible pricing, and that pricing needs to reflect what's in the package. No hair-brained ideas, no stop-gap solutions, like ten dollar and its kindred...Sell what's in the box, then make more if you like.

  • BillyBrush #39 2 years ago

    Puts Begbie voice on:

    Fuck these fucking greedy fuckers.

  • Darren #40 2 years ago

    It was a terrible idea to use F1 2010 as an example of how to sell half a game IMO. If I knew that a game such as that only had six tracks not the 17 or whatever of the full package then I would not buy it at all. Simple as.

    I don't mind buying full games then having the option to buy DLC that extends the life of the games, or for multiplayer games adds maps and modes, but I do not like the idea of selling half a game one bit. Already, it seems like we're paying for half a game particularly as publishers/developers take great pride in announcing or discussing DLC often before the game has been released. That reads like content that has been held back. Take the recent Star Wars: The Force Unleashed 2 for example which is criminally short but I suspect that DLC will be available for it at a price.

    I'm quite sure that we'd end up paying more for the full package this way too because the publishers are only looking out for their interests not ours. If they can make more money out of us then they'll do it.

  • RustyBullet #41 2 years ago

    @LosCapitan That has to be the best solution on here so far and most games have OnLine in some sort of way. If i purchased a PreOwned Game then it would be down to me to buy the online portion of the game, a la BC2 and the VIP pass. I know plenty of people that shelled out for the VIP pass.

  • mkreku #42 2 years ago

    Why does it always feel like they're trying to get more money from the same (or less) product? The last game I bought cost me $110 (in Sweden)! There is a limit, you know! I just can't afford many of those games per year. There's just no more milk in this cow. Sorry.

  • smithdown #43 2 years ago

    @arcam
    I'm not doubting the validity of your claim that most people don't finish most of their games, but do you have a reference for this? I find that astounding! I'm not exactly 100%-ing all my games, but I usually at least reach the end of them. If not, what's the point in buying games?
    I'm in two minds over this whole thing. Neither side has a right to moan as both are just exploiting the market. It looks like publishers could have the trump card in the form of reserved DLC, but they need to make allowances by a) including the content on the disc and just making you download a key to unlock it (so you don't fill up your HDD) and b) making it possible to download said key on to a USB so that you don't need to be online.

    If publishers start going the way of micro-transactions (e.g. £1.99 for a new level of a single player game) they could find themselves at the sharp end of consumer apathy.

  • smithdown #44 2 years ago

    @arcam
    I'm not doubting the validity of your claim that most people don't finish most of their games, but do you have a reference for this? I find that astounding! I'm not exactly 100%-ing all my games, but I usually at least reach the end of them. If not, what's the point in buying games?
    I'm in two minds over this whole thing. Neither side has a right to moan as both are just exploiting the market. It looks like publishers could have the trump card in the form of reserved DLC, but they need to make allowances by a) including the content on the disc and just making you download a key to unlock it (so you don't fill up your HDD) and b) making it possible to download said key on to a USB so that you don't need to be online.

    If publishers start going the way of micro-transactions (e.g. £1.99 for a new level of a single player game) they could find themselves at the sharp end of consumer apathy.

  • dirtysteve #45 2 years ago

    and if you don't have a decent enough internet connection, or our servers are inevitably overloaded, you can't get the rest of your game at all. Which leads back to putting the whole game on the disc, and unlocking part of it via internet registration, which is not really different to any current drm where the game must be activated via internet.

  • bratmandu #46 2 years ago

    Ripping customers off under the guise of anti piracy/anti second hand market = shoddy.

    There has been piracy and second hand games since digital entertainment began - why is it suddenly such a huge problem?

    Maybe if codies made games other than the throwaway 'annual racing/sports game update #9076', and didn't middle-manage a franchise into muck(flashpoint) then they'd have a decent roster of keepable games.

    Remember: this is the company that bypassed the nes lockout chip to play unlicensed codemasters games on it. They made Dizzy! And Micro Machines and IGI!

    I mean seriously, if your products are all annual sports games they're gonna be out of date in a year tops - what do you think people are gonna do with em - use em as coasters when game shops have trade in offers? Duh!

  • RodHull #47 2 years ago

    Whilst I sympathise with publishers faced with rising costs, this method does whiff of the piss.

  • sfp_noodle #48 2 years ago

    I've been buying games for 14 years now and prices for pre owned has always been high. If I'm perfectly honest, the desire to cut put retailers is due to the increasingly fast internet speeds.

    Developers know they can update (read patch) games through the internet so they hold back content purposefully. Bad Company 2 is a perfect example of this where they offer us "VIP" content that actually isn't content at all. By validating your online pass it unlock content that was already on the disc in the first place. It's held back to force the consumer into buying a new product to get the full experience.

    If the internet was still dial up and consoles weren't so reliant on it developers would not give a shit about second hand. I think it would improve the quality of games too so that we don't get bug infested games on release that were rushed out the door to compete with other rushed releases.

    Bugs cannot be avoided, no matter how perfect a game is. But if you go back to last gen, very few of the top titles released with major bugs. This gen we've had games like Fable 2 and 3, Fallout, Formula 1 and Call of Duty all released with bugs and with Black Ops even day one patches that don't eradicate the problems.

    If devs didn't have the power of the internet they wouldn't be so greedy with their games. Even some GOTY editions are released which only provide you with a download card for the DLC. Why? Not everyone played Borderlands with friends over the internet. It shafts those that want a single player experience too.

  • Jimster71 #49 2 years ago

    In a way, EA and DICE have already done this with Bad Company 2. A lot of the 'add on' mulitplayer maps and game modes were already on the disk, but you needed a VIP code to unlock them over time. This is free with new copies of the game but costs people with a pre-owned copy.

    If Codies released half a game, I would be ok with paying half price for it, but only if the DLC wasn't too expensive (which it would be, since they'd have a captive audience)

  • 32768Colours #50 2 years ago

    What an utterly disgraceful turn this industry is taking. Funny how I've been buying games since 1985 and the last time I checked the games industry is going from strength to strength. Maybe they should've sold me one half of Dizzy on cassette and the other on ZX Microdrive :p

    Yes piracy is wrong, but software companies are in the unique position of being able to exploit the distribution of their products in this way and its not right. Selling on something you own is not illegal and I'm no lawyer, but these kinds of measures must surely skirt on the edge of consumer rights?

    Could you imagine if music CDs did this? They gave you the first 6 songs on CD and made you download the rest for an additional fee? People would be outraged! Even if they sold the CD for half price, they would be lying if they called it a full album because that's not what you're buying at the point of sale.

    So would they be able to get away with selling these games as "full" games just because the online stuff is classed as an anti-piracy measure? The definition of a "full" game is so flimsy, even content locked on the very disc you own seems to lawfully get away with being unavailable to you until the additional cost to "download" it is paid.

    What a disgrace.

  • Colin8703 #51 2 years ago

    There's another issue with regards to gifting what with the silly season coming up.

    "Here's half of your birthday/christmas present"

    "Mum, why did you only get me half of the game?"

    "Sorry dear, I didn't realize that I only bought half of the game. I was not informed of this when I bought it at Tesco (ad supermarket of choice).

  • arcam #52 2 years ago

    @smithdown

    [link url=http://news.softpedia.com/news/Only-40-Percent-of-Gamers-Finished-Assassin-s-Creed-II-162213.shtml
    ]http://news.softpedia.com/news/Only-40-P...[/link]
    According to that 40% of people completed AssCreed2, 30% completed GTAIV, and the average completion rate for games is about 5-10%.

    I also remember reading somewhere that only 40% of players finished Portal, despite it being only a few hours long and the best game ever made ;) Apparently 20% of the people who played Fable II didn't change their sword. Ever, during the whole game.

    Most people are unlike us, and to them games are disposable and not worthy of large amounts of effort. This is why publishers are crazy if they think they people will happily pay full price for games without the option of selling them on a couple of weeks later to pay for the next game. The mainstream just does not think like the publishers want them to think.

  • FireMonkey #53 2 years ago

    The whole problem with the second hand market is that the shops are now taking the piss.

    The second hand market for games has been there pretty much forever, but it's only in the last 5 or so years that the shops are now putting more space to second hand than original, pricing second hand at only slightly under original prices and heavily pushing customers towards the second hand rather than original.

    The retailers have refused in the past to come to any agreement over second hand sales with the publishers yet are making on average +£100 profit on each second hand game during it's lifetime (I remember when the retailers would mark second hand games so that they could only be sold as second hand once. That's stopped now so they go through the system on average 4 times).

    We should be supporting the publishers and devs really. They are the ones who make the games that we all love to play. Without them we will not have the games we want. It's the shops that really need to change their ways. If they did then the development industry would not feel threatened and would not need to think up methods such as this to try and survive.
    Edited by FireMonkey at 16/11/10 @ 14:17

  • MattyD #54 2 years ago

    Good luck with that. I'm frankly amazed that Codemasters are still in business. They are the Midway of the UK - shit, have been shit for years, haven't had a good game since their 'golden' days of yore, yet somehow they continue shambling along like a zombie.

  • RevanNL #55 2 years ago

    Didn't they already ship a half-finished version of F1 2010? His idea isn't that bad, providing they wil cut the price of a game with 60%. Somehow I doubt that's gonna happen.

  • geeza2020 #56 2 years ago

    Well Codies, I haven't bought a game of yours in years, and you've just succeeded in seeing that trend continue.

  • kangarootoo #57 2 years ago

    This speculation is useless without numbers.

  • Stroller4 #58 2 years ago

    Fab4 has it right, make the games so special and so memorable that gamers want to keep them. Taking the piss through DLC, especially when it's essentially a code to unlock content already on the disk only alienates the people that are replied upon to fund the market.

    Across my Friends List there are hoarders, who like me keep all their games and there are others who mostly sell them on as soon as the next game they want comes out. All though, keep the special games, the ones that every now and then, we will all load up and spend an evening playing together.

  • FireMonkey #59 2 years ago

    @Agricola - "Don't most consumers products have a 2nd hand market..................? "

    Yep, but how many music / clothes / car retails (that are not dedicated to second hand sales) can you think of that have 50% or more of the shelf space dedicated to second hand sales?
    That's pretty much the reality for games. That's why there is a problem.

  • Moz #60 2 years ago

    Not seeing how this is any different to any other game released in the last 2 years. Unless they're suggesting the retails box to be cheaper then they currently are, selling you half the game at half the price.

    All seems rather mute anyway while the next gen consoles will probably still have blu-ray drives they'll also likely have big enough hard drives to make full sized online purchases more viable which will mean it'll only be a matter of time before some AAA games decide to go download only anyway.

  • LosCapitan #61 2 years ago

    Alternate solution:

    Take the old fashioned Film approach: sign a treaty with retail that says they have a 3 month period where they can only sell new, and then pre-owned after that period.

    Publisher feels less cheated. Retailer maintains all arguments.

    Job done.

  • Stroller4 #62 2 years ago

    DLC itself needs to step up dramatically in quality or come down in price. It rarely lasts more than an hour or so and for the cost of a couple of DLC packs, you can get a top game, less than a year old, new, from one of the online retailers. It's a no brainer.

    In fact, all of the following are available (NEW) online, for under £15, would you rather one of these, or two so-so bits of DLC?

    Mass Effect 2
    Bayonetta
    Splinter Cell Conviction
    Forza 3
    Batman Arkham Asylum
    Left 4 Dead II
    Beatles Rock Band (solus)
    Brutal Legend

    They're all (just) inside 12 months old, cost less than a single MW2 map-pack and offer some of the best gaming you'll ever get...... so why wouldn't you?

  • presh #63 2 years ago

    Publishers have two choices.

    1. Continue to make boxed games at a premium price, and concentrate on DRM and copy protection. Accept that you'll make a lot of money at launch, but low lifetime sales

    2. Move to a DLC-only model, and drop prices to encourage uptake. Dropping the boxed product means the second-hand market isn't an issue

    Sadly, they all seem to want to do both at the same time, which is the same mistake the music industry has made. If someone BUYS something, then they have the right to SELL it. Who can blame a retailer for getting on the bandwagon? With all the publishers complaining, have any of them tried doing their own 2nd hand service? You could easily have a service where you send a older game with proof of purchase to get a heavily discounted copy of a new release game...

  • solidSnake04 #64 2 years ago

    He is out of his mind

  • Freek #65 2 years ago

    That doesn't give the customer any extra benifit what so ever. You're just playing into retail fears and leeching off my bandwith and harddisk space in order to make it happen.
    So no, I would not be on board with this.

    Go fight your war with retail somewhere else and leave me out of it.
    Edited by Freek at 16/11/10 @ 14:49

  • Whitster #66 2 years ago

    @Darren

    Took the words right out of my mouth, the amount of games now that somehow seem to have DLC available within weeks of release really gets on my tits. It's obviously been purposly cut back to fleece money out of us, or cut due to not being ready for launch, in which case I'd rather the launch be delayed those few weeks to get all the content up to scratch.

  • Shikasama #67 2 years ago

    No

  • Bluetooth #68 2 years ago

    I pay 2 dorrar for every track

  • whoyouknow #69 2 years ago

    Why is it only average-to-middling developers that complain about the second hand market?

  • solidSnake04 #70 2 years ago

    @Ap3xx
    ".............im already against DLC as it is. For the most part it's nothing more then a useless wate of money. Great in the 2006 and 07 when it was new, now everything does it, even games which do not warrant it.......im looking at you Single Player only games.
    My feelings towards Codies went up after F1 2010, they finally got back to making great games, they do this, won't go near them ever again. "

    It kinda makes sense to do DLC for single player games you know...
    @Fab4
    Indeed... No wonder I have all my MGS games, ZOE, ICO, SOTC, Zelda: A link to the Past, Oracle of ages, etc. just a small sample of games I find worth keeping.

  • FireMonkey #71 2 years ago

    @Whitster - " the amount of games now that somehow seem to have DLC available within weeks of release really gets on my tits. It's obviously been purposly cut back to fleece money out of us, or cut due to not being ready for launch"

    You can't expect the developers to add extra stuff to the game without being paid for it. Publishers forecast how much money they will make from additional content and then pay the devs extra to develop the extra content.

    Just because it is ready for release does not mean it was developed with the forecast finances raised from the sale of the full game.

    (Although I'm not saying some devs / publishers may be taking the piss but it would be the exception)
    Edited by FireMonkey at 16/11/10 @ 15:13

  • actionfitz #72 2 years ago

    @Lee_Morris
    If the publishers are so worried about losing out on money from pre owned sales then they need to talk to the retailers, not fuck over the customers.

    It's hardy our fault that shops like Gamestop have larger pre-owned sections than they have for brand new games.
    It's not our fault that their staff push like crazy to get people to buy pre-owned copies of newly released titles selling for £2 less than the full RRP

    - that actually happened me, I walked out of a store after harassment from a 'Game' manager who would not accept that I wanted to pay £2 more for a new copy of a game, I went next door to HMV and bought it there.

    If pre-owned is hurting development so much then have it out with retailers.
    If you stop making games they have nothing to sell, or re-sell.
    It's in their interests to sit down and work out a deal.

    Screwing the customer will hurt you more in the long run.

  • FireMonkey #73 2 years ago

    @Actionfitz - "If the publishers are so worried about losing out on money from pre owned sales then they need to talk to the retailers, not fuck over the customers."

    I'm certain there have been quite a few attempts at coming up with a deal with the retailers. I remember reading about one deal in a magazine years ago where the retailers flat out refused to talk about it as they didn't see why they should make a deal and cut their profits. Annoyingly I can't find any reference to it on the net (although tbh I haven't looked very hard).

  • Whitster #74 2 years ago

    I did notice on my new Gamestation reward card they give point bonuses for trading in games within 14 days of their launch, which seemed a bit wrong.

  • Katanax #75 2 years ago

    Also, not forgetting that the majority of the people here are regular gamers with an interest in the medium.

    What the hell are the soccer Moms and casual gamers going to do when they have to add credit card details before little Timmy can play his next shooter either online or perhaps with his friends (if co-op is premium) - especially when the game on the shelf is advertised at half the price of other games without the DLC.

    It's this stuff which damages the industry and locks out the people who ultimately stabilise and pay for it - the poor consumers.

    Still, not like every other company or service provider isn't bending us over a little further right now, so I don't know why I'm surprised the second-hand argument has come up *YET AGAIN*.

  • BobsUncle #76 2 years ago

    Honestly, I don't understand how games publishers think they are entitled to any of the 2nd hand sales profits. Do 2nd hand car dealers have to pay car manufacturers every time they sell a car? Or used books stores, used Music stores, Guitar shops etc?

    You sold it once and made your money, there is simply no reason why you should get any more.

  • nooneyouknow #77 2 years ago

    Actionfitz
    It's hardy our fault that shops like Gamestop have larger pre-owned sections than they have for brand new games.
    It's not our fault that their staff push like crazy to get people to buy pre-owned copies of newly released titles selling for £2 less than the full RRP

    Similar story a few times - Dragon Age Origins, Bad Company 2 and Halo Reach, all at £2 less than full price. Funny how they don't mention that the codes included have been used up already too (although don't know if they had but presumably so).
    Online retailers only for me now...

  • drhickman1983 #78 2 years ago

    I'm not suprised at Cousen's suggesttion, but I am suprised nobody has mentioned it as explicity as before. EA's $10 system, or whatever they called it, is pretty similair in some ways, but EA weren't quite as brazen in the description of it.

    I fully expect a system like this to go live, which will suck for many reasons other folks have mentioned already. Not everybody cares about online gaming, so many folks have limited internet packages by choice. Then there are the folks who can't get a good connection, certainly in the UK at any rate.

    The thing that does really concern me though is that these "half games" will still retail for £40. If that's the case, many folks will definitely be waiting until that half appears in the 2nd hand market. Which means the publishers will probably make the DLC almost as expensive in order to recupperate losses. So anybody who wishes to buy a game new will end up paying way over the odds in order to get "both halves".

  • midnight_walker #79 2 years ago

    I did notice on my new Gamestation reward card they give point bonuses for trading in games within 14 days of their launch, which seemed a bit wrong.

    It's also retarded, since they'll basically give you your money back (in store credit) if you return it within 10 days for any reason.
    Edited by midnight_walker at 16/11/10 @ 15:58

  • Lankysi #80 2 years ago

    Take a look at some of the biggest sellers of all times, what have they got in common? They're all great games.

    Now look at all the publishers who are bitching about pre-owned affecting their sales, what have they got in common? Sub-standard games or annual iterations of the same bloody game!

    Sort it out, become one of the former and you won't have an issue with people buying your games pre-owned.

    And anyway, this proposal, in some cases, aren't we getting that anyway? Half a game off the shelf then the other half via DLC?? And what's worse is, we're paying £40 for them

  • banjo21 #81 2 years ago

    Its a very simple solution.
    You sell the whole game at say £45 retail in a box. That allows the buyer to accept he's paying a premium but he has an asset, an asset he owns and can sell on like any other asset. So he knows he can trade privately for £25 at almost any point in year 1 and say £20 to a Gameshop etc. So in actual fact the most it could cost is £25 over the year.
    You sell same day, same code via download the product for £30. The buyer saves some now but knows they actually lose some over the year because they have nothing to sell.
    Everyone wins.
    If any publisher wants to use this idea feel free - its not patented, its called common sense I think.

  • Stop-gap #82 2 years ago

    Not this again: "help tackle the earnings lost from used game sales but piracy, too."

    I don't know where these people get the idea that all copies bought 2nd hand were somehow all going to be bought 1st hand.
    It is shamelessly exaggerated as a problem and recounted with a warped perspective.

    1) If I was shopping for a new game to play the price difference of a used copy of most games wouldn't sway me to buy 2nd hand, I'd buy new, safe in the knowledge it should be pristine.
    2) Did you ever stop and think that the trade in allowed the original owner to possibly buy a new title, HELPING your sales?
    3) If someone did buy the game 2nd hand, chances are they were only marginally interested at best and aren't a lost £35+ sale in the first place.
    4) This attitude smacks of wanting to be paid for the same physical copy multiple times, and you know where you can stick that idea.
    5) Not everyone will agree, but this kind of thing only encourages piracy. I'd say it is much, much more likely to make someone think "Half a game? You know what? Fuck you too Codemasters." and send them off to a torrent site than it is to "protect revenue streams" or some shit.

  • governmentyard #83 2 years ago

    They could call the first release "Advanced Ripoff Simulator" and have reviews ion a little bubble from the people at Codies: "It really is only half a game!"

  • goondocks74 #84 2 years ago

    It's a forgone conclusion that they'll find a way to stamp out the pre-owned market, fleecing the consumer - their life blood - in the process, but it doesn't matter, people will still buy their half-arsed broken products, which will still need patches, and be full of glitches and bugs, and they'll still be over priced to begin with, and the DLC will not be worth the over inflated cost, and so on and so on......
    Greedy Bastards the lot of them. Won't stop me buying pre-owned in the meantime. Mwah ha ha ha haaa.
    Edited by goondocks74 at 16/11/10 @ 20:28

  • dorkacle #85 2 years ago

    technically dey only released have a game wi f1 2010 anyway....

  • sega #86 2 years ago

    What people seem to be forgetting is video games have a very short shelf life. Games can disappear completely from sale in as little as a year in some cases so sometimes there is no option but to get the game in the second hand market.

    Now this selling half a game idea will still get them money from these second hand sales - but what happens to these games in the future? Games studios go bust, merge with other companies, change development for different markets etc. We've all been on ebay trying to buy classics from our past that we've loved - how will we be able to do that in the future if we can only get half of the game because the servers no longer host the rest?

    Would this mean games not only have a short shelf life but a short life full stop? Will future retro gamers never be able to completely play these titles? It'd be like if people wishing to get their hands on, say, Final Fantasy 7 today could only get hold of the first two discs and never be able to play through the full thing again.

  • dsmx #87 2 years ago

    Sure you can sell half a game so long as you charge half the price for it.

  • SquirrellyWrath #88 2 years ago

    Here's a better idea. Rather than spend your time making bullshit ideas that the pirates will work around anyways, because, let's face it, they find their way around DRM easily enough, why not spend that time making, oh I dunno, maybe, how about... Oh, I know! A decent game. Not a repackaged serial. Not another rip-off of another title that ripped off another title which also ripped off another title. An original game that's worth the price tag, that brings something to the industry that can't be described as 'Like [insert game here] but'. New, original ideas. You know, ideas? Went out of fashion around the millennium? Yeah, we miss those. Bring ‘em back.

    Actually, here's a better idea than that: stop charging £40 for a new PS3 game. Blu-ray DVD titles are cheaper than a new game, and from what I can tell it's the same burning technology that makes both of them. Here's some common sense. If you are going to pay FORTY QUID for a game, you'll want it to be, you know, worth £40. And the lack of demos doesn't help much, either. There was a time when the hottest new games were less than £20 a pop. Back then, my dad was buying a new, fresh-out-the-box game EVERY WEEK. Now? Now you're lucky if you find a new game under £30. Heck, it’s getting that way USED nowadays!

    And what about Spore? A game with a new type of DRM that would hinder piracy and, inadvertently, second-hand sales because it can only be activated 3, then 5 times. What else was it? The most pirated game of 2008. So, using that logic, wherein more restricted games are pirated more often, what the HELL makes you think you won’t just have mass repeats of Spore throughout the industry with this model? Case in point, Silent Hunter 5. By the looks of things, it has been successfully cracked. Just face facts, codemasters. Second-hand sales will always exist. Piracy will always exist. There is NOTHING you can do about it. And ya know what? From my experience, the only ones who ever suffer from anti-piracy measures aren't the pirates. They'll just find something else while other pirates crack your "uncrackable" DRM. The ones who suffer are the ones who have shelled out their own money for a game, and who have to deal with DRM that makes playing and enjoying the game more of a hassle than it needs to be. You, the company, also suffer, because you spent a metric arseload of money developing a new piece of DRM that will be broken anything from six hours to six months after release. And if it was a real piece of work (see: Spore) then it’ll be pirated extra hard.

    As a consumer, here's my opinion: If you, or any developer use that dodgy business model in any game whatsoever, I will not be buying it. Not when it comes out, and not until you can guarantee that I will NOT have to download anything to play it. Maybe not even then. And if you DO go under, how are the ones who buy the game legally gonna get the full game if they have to log into a codemasters server that, ya know, doesn't exist anymore? Piracy. Congratulations!! You have just contributed to the piracy issue, good sirs. Well done! Would you like to shoot the other foot while you’re at it?

    Oh, and Lee_Morris; yeah, they should be paid. No, I don’t think it’s fair that I have to download half the content for a price if I want to play it. If you’re gonna charge me for a hard copy, I want the whole game on the media that was in the god-damned box and NOT in some server in Kazakhstan that was put there ‘to cut down on costs’, okay?

    Heck, there’s another money hole. The content servers! CM will have to pay for those as well. Somebody will realise this and we’ll be back to the usual ‘entire game in one package’ deal in a few years. For once, developers, have some foresight, use hindsight, look at Spore, look at what you’ve tried to do in the past and realise that this latest farce will be another brick in a wall that should never have been built in the first place.

  • spekkeh #89 2 years ago

    I'm actually all for cheap and short (but high quality) games. Dead Rising 2's Case Zero for instance. That would definitely fill a niche for time-challenged gamers such as me. Then if I suddenly have more free time and like the game, I can buy the expansion.

    I'm just not sure it's a clever business strategy, as I feel most people would stay with the short version and that would mean lots of startup cost for little revenue.

    Of course all this presupposes that it's a barebones but complete game that you buy. I wouldn't be interested in buying a game that didn't have a proper ending without DLC.

  • spekkeh #90 2 years ago

    @squirellywrath when was that exactly, C64 era I reckon? When games could be made in a couple of months by a dev team of ten people?

    'cause I remember when Street Fighter 2 costed nearly £100.

  • orangpelupa #91 2 years ago

    codies is crazies....
    this will make no-one in poor country buy codies games. In my country, internet is slow as dinosaur and expensive.
    even it took me whooping 1 day to download BFBC2 updates lol.

    btw about the piracy edition,
    cant the cracker just download the "DLC" then release it as "Codemaster game tittle : The Complete Edition *PROPER* - Release group name here.

    in the end, original game buyer got annoyed,
    but piracy game buyer will able to play offline, no need to do hassle.

  • GreatUncleBaal #92 2 years ago

    I just read this article having just lost another save file in F1 2010 due to corruption - funnily enough, I really don't feel like giving Codemasters any of my money any more.

  • CoveringFire #93 2 years ago

    This isnt going to solve the problem at all. The people who arent buying games new are doing so because the games are too expensive. £40 is too big a risk to take with a game that is likely to be a pile of toss. I've stopped buying games on release, i cant afford the risk. And since when is downloading gigabytes of content a sensible solution? theres a lot of people out there on limited bandwidth broadband packages. Even slow speed internet is going to cause problems. If i'm going to be waiting two days to download 2gig through my shoddy connection, i just wont bother.

  • fenderjaguar #94 2 years ago

    I bought OEM copies of Windows XP and Windows 7. These are cheaper than the 'retail' copies and cannot be activated on any motherboard except the one I have at the moment. Maybe the industry could use a similar system in the future.

  • Leokin #95 11 months ago

    To Codemasters.... this is the reason why games and systems are being increasingly hacked/cracked. If you burn the people who buy your products they WILL burn you back.

    Do you not remember the The Boston Tea Party?

    GeoHot : PS3 Network?