Rare: We should have scrapped Kameo

By Fred Dutton Published 12 October, 2010

Plus, still gets hate mail from Nintendo fans.

Xbox 360 launch game Kameo: Elements of Power should not have been released, developer Rare has admitted.

Speaking in an interview with Edge, creative director George Andreas said, "I was on that project from start to finish, so it's quite painful to talk about it in some ways.

"It started as a GameCube project, and it was actually one of the games we demoed at E3 along with the hardware. And then it jumped from GameCube on to Xbox. We changed direction slightly because of the new audience we were trying to aim at.

"We called Kameo an elf, but really she was a fairy," he continued. "We tried to disguise that a few times, but it didn't really work out. It was a game with a fairy for an audience that likes shooting and killing things.

"In hindsight it probably would have been best to scrap everything and start again."

Indeed. Eurogamer's Tom Bramwell gave it 5/10 when it eventually launched in 2005.

Andreas also revealed that Rare still receives hate mail from Nintendo gamers to this day. The developer was once owned by Nintendo, for whom it made GoldenEye 007, Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark and Donkey Kong 64, but was bought out by Microsoft in 2002.

"[The Microsoft deal] happened relatively quickly. It was generally supported company-wide as well. No one was that unhappy that we'd gone with Microsoft."

Design head Gregg Mayles added, "We got [angry] letters every step of the way. Once they got email, it was like opening the floodgates."

"We still get them now," said studio head Mark Betteridge.

Rare's next title is Kinect Sports for Xbox 360, out on 10th November.

Picture of Fred.

About Fred Dutton

Fred Dutton is Eurogamer's US news editor, based in Washington DC.

Read more articles from Fred by visiting the Fred Dutton archive page.

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Comments (70) Latest comment 2 years ago

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  • Deckard1 #1 2 years ago

    I liked it.

  • jonsaan #2 2 years ago

    Whaaat? It was a great game.

    It was an island of cuddly gaming golden era in an ocean of space marines and cars.
    Edited by jonsaan at 12/10/10 @ 17:52

  • miiiguel #3 2 years ago

    This time I agree with EG, it's not good, it's realy a 5/10. Barely average.

  • jonsaan #4 2 years ago

    One things for sure. It pisses all over their recent output.

    Just to be clear. I don't consider Viva Pinata or N&B to be recent. I meant the stuff after that.
    Edited by jonsaan at 12/10/10 @ 20:59

  • Shikasama #5 2 years ago

    This comments thread should be good

  • Phantom_Dynamite #6 2 years ago

    I really enjoyed it had a brilliant look to it and as a launch title it was different.

    EG gave this a next gen game 5/10 and King Kong an upgraded last gen movie tie in 8/10, I had them both at launch if Kong got 8 so should of Kameo.

  • lucky_jim #7 2 years ago

    I couldn't really get into it, but I was playing it after things like Fable II so that may have been a factor. If I'd bought a 360 at launch I probably would have liked it (I'm one of the handful of people who like Starfox Adventures!).

    Banjo Kazooie N&B on the other hand, is one of the finest and least appreciated gems of this generation. Mark my words, in ten years time everyone will be talking about it in the hushed reverent tones they reserve nowadays for things like Stranger's Wrath and BG&E, and pretending they were huge fans all along even though the sales figures show nobody bought it. Honestly, sometimes I think they should just re-skin it with lots of brown and space marines and it'd sell by the bucketload. It can be bought for virtually nothing nowadays, it's well worth a try.

  • jon1138 #8 2 years ago

    I liked this game !!

    Kameo is one of my favourites games on Xbox 360

  • OnlyMe #9 2 years ago

    Isn't this like... ancient news by now? I remember readiing this on GAF at least a month ago.

  • menage #10 2 years ago

    I liked it, at least I liked it better than the kiling and shooting stuff back then.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #11 2 years ago

    I only played the demo of Kameo and didn't enjoy it that much. It certainly wasn't bad but there were too many other games. Lovely to look at though, even these days.

    Regarding the Microsoft deal: The saddest thing is that as soon as Nintendo was gone their games were so much worse than before. I read in various articles during the SNES and N64 games that Nintendo employees would stop by at Rare's offices every few months or so to see how the games were progressing. It seems like as soon as Nintendo's helping hand was gone Rare had no idea how to actually make a good game anymore. I'm sure developing a game and switching platform as much as three times during the development cycle makes things a lot harder but the problems the games (ie. PDZ) were definitely with the general design as well.

    I really like what Rare did on the Nintendo consoles but with the exception of the brilliant Viva Pinata they just don't seem to be able to make great games anymore.
    Edited by Der_tolle_Emil at 12/10/10 @ 18:03

  • Gambit1977 #12 2 years ago

    Oh RARE...how the mighty have fallen :(
    They had a good presence at the EG Expo, but I got the impression they were uneasy with their output.

  • Stratix #13 2 years ago

    I enjoyed it. It was one of Rare's better games under Microsoft. The Conker remake for the first Xbox was fun and the Perfect Dark Zero game was alright, but was certainly missing something.

    Other than that I have been left rather unimpressed.

    I certainly don't "hate" Rare, but sometimes I do wonder why they are not as good as they used to be.

  • darkmorgado #14 2 years ago

    WTF? This interview was over two months ago!

  • darkmorgado #15 2 years ago

    One things for sure. It pisses all over their recent output.

    Viva Pinata says hi.

  • Flooq #16 2 years ago

    It wasn't that bad. It was a lot better than Perfect Dark Zero. If they so ashamed of Kameo's style then why did they make Viva Pinata? The marketing for that was a train wreck, instead of focussing on why it was a good game they kept talking about how you could kill the animals and make them explode. Microsoft never did know what to do with Rare.

  • dirtysteve #17 2 years ago

    Kinect Sports, what a long fall from grace.

  • darkmorgado #18 2 years ago

    Dear Rare,

    Please make the following games and I will love you forever:

    Viva Pinata 3
    Blast Corps 2
    A decent Perfect Dark sequel.

    Yours sincerely,

    Darkmorgado

  • Monkey_Puncher #19 2 years ago

    I liked Kameo, was a hell of a lot better than Kinect Sports looks!

  • dsmx #20 2 years ago

    Rare make what microsoft tell them to make these days, looking at what rare have made in the past it can't be their own decision to makes those kinect games.

  • man.the.king #21 2 years ago

    I agree with some of the other posters here: Kameo was one of the better efforts by Rare under MS.

    While I have played plenty of great games on the 360 - including Oblivion and Gears - Kameo is still one of my favorites. PDZ, not so much.

    I still have to play Banjo-Kazooie; however still a lot of current games to buy, so will have to wait some more. Maybe I'll rent it.

  • mrhand #22 2 years ago

    Dear Rare,

    Make Blast Corps 2

    k'thx'bye

  • Baggies1879 #23 2 years ago

    I really enjoyed kameo. I took a chance on it, as I didn't really like the demo but at the 360's launch there wasn't much else to play, and was pleasantly surprised by how good it was. I would love to see a sequel as there were a lot of good ideas and without it's troubled development cycle I think it could have been fantastic.

  • darkmorgado #24 2 years ago

    No love for a JFG sequel? :(

    Oh, go on then!

  • beastmaster #25 2 years ago

    Quite liked Jetpack on XBLA. Head Over Heels & Sabre Wulf please.

  • darkmorgado #26 2 years ago

    @beastmaster

    Have you played the fan remake of head over heels? It's a free download

  • TRUTH #27 2 years ago

    I actually enjoyed Kameo - there should expand on this game. This was the last Rare game that was worth picking up. They stopped the sequel thanks to MS, now ordered to make crap for Kinect (no one is interested in)...Kameo worked as it was different and the closet thing to Zelda on 360. Prefer it much more then Fable games.
    Edited by TRUTH at 12/10/10 @ 18:28

  • darkmorgado #28 2 years ago

    Although you do realise that HOH wasn't a game by Rare? It was developed and published by Ocean.

  • Cronan #29 2 years ago

    Kameo was a dreadful game, easily the worst of the release titles.

  • natashaspice #30 2 years ago

    It was a good game IMO

  • Fur_Cough #31 2 years ago

    ...well, we all know how good their output has been since moving to M$. I think a little self-loathing from Rare wouldn't be too amiss.

  • captainrentboy #32 2 years ago

    Huh? I really liked it, certainly better than Perfect Dark, and I thought it showed off the possible 'next gen' graphical capabilities quite well.
    And either I'm going mental or I remember reading this exact story weeks ago :/

  • riceNpea #33 2 years ago

    Rare are reduced to making games like Kinect Sport. they've finally hit bottom.

  • meme #34 2 years ago

    "We tried to disguise that a few times, but it didn't really work out. It was a game with a fairy for an audience that likes shooting and killing things."

    So afterwards you thought it would be best to make a game about gardening. Gotcha.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #35 2 years ago

    Well they are still talented guys. I do think though that they need to be pointed in the right direction - and that is where Microsoft fails miserably. Viva Pinata is a great game and you can see how much thought Rare put into this but all went wrong once it was released. I think both Rare and Microsoft failed to get across the point of Viva Pinata. It's an incredibly cute and adorable game but it offers a lot more than just colorful graphics. Everyone I know who played it for more than just a few minutes enjoyed it. I'm sure it is a lot harder to sell a game like this on the 360 than it would have been on the Wii.

    Still, to get to the point: It failed for the same reason why Kameo failed - taking a game and trying to make it work for a target audience which is not the one originally intended. This obviously screwed up the entire concept and design choices; At least Viva Pinata was still a really good game but I'm sure it did not sell as much as Rare/MS wanted it to.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #36 2 years ago

    Rare are reduced to making games like Kinect Sport. they've finally hit bottom.

    I would not say reduced. Microsoft's choice to give Rare a pivotal role with Kinect was definitely a deliberate one because of Rare's talent, experience and versatility. I also would not be surprised if MS was hoping for Rare to bring in some of that Nintendo magic they had going a few years ago. I'm sure Microsoft did not put Rare in such a position because they have nothing better to do - but you really cannot rely on 3rd parties to push new hardware like this.

  • Gambit1977 #37 2 years ago

    Rare are the perfect example of Rose tinted glasses. They were great, but like Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday and the like, the team changes, management changes, new owners want different things. For years I told my mate they were producing rubbish and he wouldn't accept they'd lost it. It's just a name now, another division of microsoft.

  • kinky_mong #38 2 years ago

    I think people are missing the main issue, Rare didn't go bad as soon as MS bought them, it was when most of the talent left to form Free Radical.

    I long for a Blast Corps and Killer Instinct sequel but I've come to the realisation that they're just not going to happen.

  • flipperpod #39 2 years ago

    They are out of touch then because Kameo was a good game. Not a great one but still a lot of fun and easily 7/8 out of 10.

  • IneptPercy #40 2 years ago

    I NEED a new conker game, do it and all is forgiven!

  • metallicorphan #41 2 years ago

    of all the RARE games made during their time with MS,i think Kameo is probably my least favourite...hm,hang on that Project Dark Zero was crap as well

    Banjo 3 was great,would of been fantastic had they left the vehicle stuff out,and it still has some of the nicest graphics

    i loved Viva Pinata

    i am hoping MS use RARE for something more than avatars and Kinect stuff,they are a great studio who need to find their feet again

    i would love to see a current gen Conker game

    @Stratix 'but sometimes I do wonder why they are not as good as they used to be.'

    i wonder the same thing,and i put it down to most of the original team leaving and forming Free Radical.

  • midnight_walker #42 2 years ago

    I thought Kameo was great!

  • GiarcYekrub #43 2 years ago

    Make Blast Corps 2

  • Rizob #44 2 years ago

    I absolutely loved this game, and thought it was technically impressive for a launch game. It looks like i need to give up hope for a sequel now then. Rare have lost the plot.

  • Machetazo #45 2 years ago

    "...But sales-wise it was pretty healthy."

    I don't know where these leading articles are coming from, EG, but that's the second in as many days, where your writers have omitted key points from the full article that's been sourced, that would balance the opinion that's being presented. Unless, you've eyes to appearing to be, just another news aggregator.

    Still, back to the article content itself. So, George is seriously saying that he feels they'd have been better off scrapping a game, that everyone had re-evaluated their expectation of, but by his own admission, still came through in terms of sales? I wouldn't have wished that game be scrapped at all, I thought it was very good.

    Finally, why's he getting caught up on the character being an elf/fairy? Their explanation was, shaky at best, but it was obvious that they worked with what they had, on the faith I read, that they held in the game, and a resolve to see the game release, at the time. Leave that sort of discussion for fans to quibble over, and the most driven to extrapolate logical explanations for, if they like. :)
    Edited by Machetazo at 12/10/10 @ 20:11

  • ouchio #46 2 years ago

    I don't know why RARE are giving interviews..M$ need their office toilets cleaning.

  • Sabreman64 #47 2 years ago

    I recently played and completed Kameo. A pretty good game, I'd say. A bit of a Zelda rip-off, but it was still good fun. And the soundtrack was great. I liked it so much I bought the CD of it.

    And I bet Kameo is a hell of a lot better than Rare's Wii Sports rip-off will be.

  • grayn #48 2 years ago

    Personally, I've never forgiven Rare for switching from the Spectrum.

  • memeroot #49 2 years ago

    I have bought every rare game this gen and loved every one of them. Fair enough viva pinata was the love of my wife but kameo stole my heart from day one.

  • The-Bodybuilder #50 2 years ago

    The funny thing is; Kameo, Blast Corps and a New Viva Pinata would make pretty good games and good transition to Kinect. Especially Pinata, imagine VP without the controls? (which I'm sure was the biggest obstacle in people getting along with the game)? This would've been a great kinect launch title.

    But nooooo, MS have them making "Kiinect-Mii Too Sports".

  • memeroot #51 2 years ago

    Kiinect-Mii Too Sports

    the first rare game I will not buy

  • jonsaan #52 2 years ago

    Viva pinata is not recent. I didn't mean that or N&B. I meant Kinect drivel. And avatar drivel. In fact, do they even make real games anymore?

  • Der_tolle_Emil #53 2 years ago

    I never had any issues with the controls in VP and especially not VP2. I imagine it would be a mess if controlled using Kinect because I heavily relied on the cursor sticking to object; That's pretty much necessary once the garden gets a bit crowded - it's brilliant feedback what you are actually going to select.

    Also, how the hell would you control Blast Corps with Kinect?

  • memeroot #54 2 years ago

    who cares i want to 'direct' kameo

  • makeamazing #55 2 years ago

    Any gamer who sends hate mail because a company is purchased by another games company, seriously need to go and seek professional help. Sad world we live in, glad to hear they can kinda laugh about it.

  • orborborb #56 2 years ago

    Oddly enough, if I could only have one boxed 360 game in my collection it would be Kameo, it's not a particularly great game, just about as good as Donkey Kong 64 or Banjo Toooie, but that still makes it better than all the other exclusives. Dead Rising and Lost Odyssey are its only competition for me in the category of "boxed 360 games I need to own," everything else I really liked on the 360 is downloadable (Trials, Shadow Complex, Outrun HD, Braid, Pac Mac CE) or has a superior PS3 or PC version (GTA4:Episodes, BC:Rearmed, Risen, Portal)

  • Sevens #57 2 years ago

    "We tried to disguise that a few times, but it didn't really work out. It was a game with a fairy for an audience that likes shooting and killing things"

    Hehe. Anyway, quite respectable statements.

  • Razorus #58 2 years ago

    Alas, Rare lost their touch a long time ago. I'm waiting for another Perfect Dark and Killer Instinct but it's perhaps too late for both franchises. The competition is just too much. They could probably collaborate with companies like Rebellion or 343 Studios for PD and Capcom or Namco for KI.

  • JodSUMO #59 2 years ago

    I find a lot of Rare stuff massively overrated, but thoroughly enjoyed Kameo.

    How about Snake, Rattle 'n' Roll on XBLA, please Rare? :)

  • radioactive_bumfluff #60 2 years ago

    I don't think Rare was all that great, Fair enough they made the Donkey Kong Country series, Goldeneye and Killer Instinct, but everything else they've ever made has been pure shite!

    Not a fan of Rare at all and don't think I'll be purchasing anything they make in the near future...

    Actually when I think about it, I haven't purchased any of their games since the N64! That's a long time to go without releasing any superior games...
    Edited by radioactive_bumfluff at 13/10/10 @ 00:14

  • Canyarion #61 2 years ago

    Eurogamer is still getting hate mails because of posting old news.

  • Shakey_Jake33 #62 2 years ago

    I thought Kameo was a really good game, and never did understand the negative review scores. Rare certainly have bigger problems than Kameo.

  • Bander #63 2 years ago

    Kameo sold the 360 to me. The GameCube version looked good too, and probably could have made me buy one, had Kameo been released for it.

    It had flaws. For example, the voice acting and noises that appeared to be intended for pre-schoollers was horrible, and the music wasn't much better. The googlyeyes-on-everything approach to character design was lazy. The annoying collect-em-up aspect of Kameo was much reduced compared to most Rare action-adventure games but was still there if you felt the need to achieve everything. And the amazing battleground was devoid of action after beating the game.

    But it was a proper old-school adventure game like Monster World, with a great score-attack and combo system that made it substantially more hardcore than anything before it, giving the game superb longevity. Visually it made great use of pixel shaders and effects, while shifting massive amounts of characters, the likes of which few current-gen games can match. That was back in 2005! I've spent ages in Kameo's world, just buzzing around taking in the scenery and all the things happening, while finding things to smash and annoying villagers.

    The Eurogamer review makes no sense towards the end! Maybe Tom was in a really bad mood or something. I've bought and sold lots of 360 games but Kameo is staying in my collection. Great game; would like to see a Kameo 2 rather than anything to do with Avatars, Kinect or any other Rare franchise really (although JFG or KI sequels would be welcome).

    Why on earth does George Andreas say that Kameo had to be called an elf even though she wasn't? All that did was make it look like Rare were clueless about their mythological creatures.

  • Pwnsweet #64 2 years ago

    Honestly I don't understand why people are still sending these guys hate mail. If they were still making gems like Banjo and Goldeneye I could understand, but after all the shit games Rare have made since Nintendo dropped them, does it really matter if they're with Microsoft?

    In fact, I'd go so far as saying that Rare have become a liability to the parent company that now owns them, and that Nintendo made a good business decision to let them go.

  • Vin #65 2 years ago

    Nerd rage, innit?

    Besides, Viva Pinata was fucking excellent.

  • Darren #66 2 years ago

    Bullshit. I thought Kameo has been Rare's best game on the Xbox platforms with Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts second. Beautiful looking and sounding game that was a lot of fun to play bar some control quirks. I'm disappointed that it never got a sequel really.

  • Tyranix #67 2 years ago

    I loved Kameo. They should have scrapped their new logo and awful kinect games, that's what.

  • irve77 #68 2 years ago

    like many people here i like Kameo too , 5/10 was overly harsh , it had sharp controls , nice bit of variety it's no classic but a solid 7/10 or 8/10 - 9/10 if your reading format exclusive websites

  • bf #69 2 years ago

    I would have to disagree with the dev, I think they made a brilliant game and one that really stands out as something different for its platform. Gaming experience diversity for the win!

  • VeggieWokker #70 2 years ago

    I was looking forward to Kameo on the gamecube. I was going to buy it at the same time as the console. I got to try it on the Xbox but the concept felt different to me.