MS: Kinect "really hard to pull off"

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 7 September, 2010

Doubts others' ability to recreate experience.

Microsoft reckons companies are in for a "super-challenging" time if they try to imitate controller-free Xbox 360 add-on Kinect.

So complex is the technology inside the Kinect sensor that "it will be hard" for anyone to deliver a similar experience, Xbox executive Kudo Tsunoda told Eurogamer in an interview published today.

"What we've done with the software is something that's really hard to pull off," the lead designer of Kinect said.

"We have a good advantage at Microsoft because we have groups like our Microsoft Research department that not a lot of other companies have, and we're able to solve some super-complicated technical problems in a short period of time.

"They were actually working on something like this before we even started it on Xbox. I think it's going to be super-challenging for anybody else to solve those problems."

Kinect, due out on 10th November for £130, allows gamers to interact with their Xbox 360s without a controller.

It also has voice recognition software built in, allowing gamers to order their consoles about with voice commands.

Microsoft has high hopes for the device, and has predicted it'll extend the life of the 360 by five years.

Tsunoda reckons if other companies manage to come up with a rival controller free technology in that time, it will be too little, too late.

"People have been trying for a long time and we're the first company that's been able to deliver this.

"If people are able to figure it out, by the time they've figured it out we're going to be off into adding more new things to the platform. But I just think that's such a hard technology challenge that it will be hard for anyone to deliver on what Kinect is."

One man who may take issue with Tsunoda's comments is Softkinetic CEO and founder Michel Tombroff.

He's developed a Kinect rival, called iisu, which works similarly to Microsoft's sensor and is being used by EA in the Tiger Woods PGA Tour Golf series.

In fact, Tombroff reckons iisu works better than Kinect, and suggested to Eurogamer last month that his tech has solved problems associated with lag, player detection and occlusion that have dogged Microsoft's tech in the run up to its release.

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (54) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • 00.00.01 #1 1 year ago

    'super-complicated'...'super-challenging'...is this guy from the eighties? The only two words that springs to mind when Natal is getting media coverage again is 'super-expensive'.

  • Tonka #2 1 year ago

    Well, I doubt anyone else will WANT to pull it off.

  • NorUraeus #3 1 year ago

    Hmmm, wonder how Microsoft research managed to solve the problem of the games beyond the exercise segment not really being fun to play with a camera control.

  • lcmnick #4 1 year ago

    "I think it's going to be super-challenging for anybody else to solve those problems."

    It's agruable as to whether MS have actually solved them given what we've seen of Kinect.

  • Roarster #5 1 year ago

    Sounds like super-bollocks to me.

  • bigbadbeasty #6 1 year ago

    Oh here we go! Why do they let these guys speak? It is just as embrassing as when Prince Philip speaks to any non-national. I'm sure it is designed to cause fan-boy arguements.

    Just a thought: Has any of the competitors actually copied anything original from the Xbox/360 before now?

  • Spydy #7 1 year ago

    [link url=http://www.konsolenkost.de/images/produkte/i90/9008717 .jpg
    ]http://ww w.konsolenkost.de/images/produk...[/link]

  • zombiesinmyhead #8 1 year ago

    Yeah because Microsoft know everything about copying and duplication, now that they've attempted to duplicate Nintendo's whole approach to motion control.

  • randompanda #9 1 year ago

    It's cute Microsoft still think this'll extend the 360's lifespan by another 5 years.

  • CrumpledPaper #10 1 year ago

    He's right. Taking over small Israeli or Euro research outfits is indeed super complicated.

  • onyxbox #11 1 year ago

    Didn't they buy the tech... yeah that was really hard... others couldn't have done that.

  • Zero Beat #12 1 year ago

    Keep digging Microsoft.

  • bigbadbeasty #13 1 year ago

    'Yeah, Sony do it all the time. Achievements and custom soundtracks being a couple of examples. Without MS, the PS3 probably wouldn't even have online play (even though what it has is VASTLY inferior to Xbox Live). '

    Not exactly original. Achievements have been in PC for quite some time, prior to the 360. Same for online play, that has been around for a long time even on consoles. They may be all bundled up in a neat package, but they are not innovations or original.

  • TopKatt #14 1 year ago

    @tigerstyle

    Don't forget games. MS invented games and Sony copied them.

  • Xardan #15 1 year ago

    It's quite unbelievable the amount of kinect hate on the internet now. Whats wrong with you people? Do you criticise everything in such a way? Give it a chance you simple minded sheep.

  • Widge #16 1 year ago

    Its weird, its like the entire “our console is deliberately hard to code for, try harder” Sony thing. Maybe Kinect could have the ability to have standout and genre leading games in the motion market when it comes to the proper effort 1st party titles? Proof is in the pudding I suppose, take a step back and see where we end up in a years time.

  • Tinrib72 #17 1 year ago

    @Xardan - Possibly because of the nauseating PR campaign and MS seemingly wanting to get away from its core users could be reason enough for the hate. I did have a fleeting interest in Kinect before I realised it really looks to be a complete shower of shite, and besides I already have a Wii that I dont use from one month to the next (which by the way I can use sitting down).

  • androidave #18 1 year ago

    Hmm, Why would anyone even want to copy a controller free tech? For anything but really simple jump around party type games, it just doesn't work.. and really, who wants to pay an extra 130quid for that?.. The only way Kinect would be any use whatsoever to gamers who, you know, like to play actual games, would be for it to work alongside the controller, for voice, headtracking and maybe the odd hand or arm movement.. and the only way for dev's to actually bother putting stuff like this into new core games is if everyone had the thing already, and seeing as they don't, its not going to be packed into every new 360 box and it costs 130quid, thats never going to happen.

  • systems #19 1 year ago

    Wasn't Kinect based on a project (3DV) which Sony and Nintendo had already investigated and rejected?
    Sony rejection: [link url=http://www.ps3attitude.com/new/2010/0 3/sony-rejected-natals-3d-camera-tech/
    ]http://ww w.ps3attitude.com/new/2010/03/s...[/link]
    Ninty rejection: [link url=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=23 2754
    ]http://ww w.computerandvideogames.com/art...[/link]

    So yes, he's correct. If those two giants rejected it then it must indeed be very difficult.

  • Bigglesworth #20 1 year ago

    "We were first!"
    "No, WE were first!"
    "I HATE you!"
    "I hate YOU!"
    etc

  • miiiguel #21 1 year ago

    Kinect articles are funny, always the same people whining about... something: price; foreign-languages; some dude's shades; lag; copies; decorating and interiors design; clean families; sign language and non-white people.

    It's, errr..., some very eclectic whining you have here, fellas.

  • sfp_noodle #22 1 year ago

    It seems it was so hard to pull off that even MS haven't managed it judging by the coverage we've had on the product so far.

  • Trigga_Tybalt #23 1 year ago

    bet this interview was hard to pull off with a straight face.

  • 52pickup #24 1 year ago

    Has anybody seen the new PS Move web portal?

    It's quite funny. You have to click the Move buttons a few times,the Kevin butler like notations are funny.

    http://www.yaybuttons.com.php5-13.dfw1-2...

  • drumbaby #25 1 year ago

    Wahoo, I'm superstoked after reading that!

  • linksdad #26 1 year ago

    If they reckon that it will ring another 5 years out of the xbox I hope it dies a shittier and quicker death than it probably will do anyway. Nothing wrong with the xbox of course, but a new one would be pretty awesome.

  • Widge #27 1 year ago

    I think there should be a new console every 2 years

  • midnight_walker #28 1 year ago

    "Nobody else could pull this off. Nobody. We will become masters of every videogaming art. You thought the PS3 launch was bad? Well let me tell you something buddy, you ain't seen nothing yet. NOBODY else in this idustry can fuck things up as bad as we're about to!"
    Edited by 1 at 07/09/10 @ 16:05

  • zombiesinmyhead #29 1 year ago

    @ tigerstyle

    I was talking more about their approach, not the hardware involved. Kinect is being marketed at kids, casuals and fat women who think flapping their bingo wings in front of the TV is exercize. If you're really stoked about Dance central, then knock yourself out.

  • dr_shambles #30 1 year ago

    Super-laggy.

  • Cronan #31 1 year ago

    More candid scenes from the life of Kudo Tsunoda, an odious twenty-something wannabe media pissant who sorely deserves an ice-pick in the cheek. This week: Tsudo sculpts his hair into a messy peak, dons his trademark shell-suit and "cunt" brand sun-glasses, and bobs his head loosely in time to an imported 8-bit techno EP, while a malnourished Albanian prostitute half-heartedly fellates one of his schoolfriends in an upstairs flat until he climaxes on the hem of his £200 Firetrap shirt and instinctively tries to wipe it off with her hair.

    With many many apologies to Charlie Brooker.

  • orangpelupa #32 1 year ago

    Kinect "really hard to pull off"

    maybe if they not cutting down the spec, and not put so high price tag, kinect will be easier to pull off to the market.....

  • ronuds #33 1 year ago

    Without looking, let me guess what the top 3 responses are:

    1) Why would anyone want to.
    2) Kinect doesn't work, so it looks as though MS has even failed.
    3) Something about lag.

    amiright?

  • berryl227 #34 1 year ago

    Widge "I think there should be a new console every 2 years"

    please god no my wallet couldn't afford it.... Or kinect for that matter

  • ronuds #35 1 year ago

    Why is my guess being negged?!?!? Am I right or wrong?

  • miiiguel #36 1 year ago

    ^ Take a guess (don't go wild though).

  • fluff_the_tiger #37 1 year ago

    super laggy more like

  • Ashcroft #38 1 year ago

    Seems strange to extend the life of a platform to twice as long as any of the consoles have managed to last before red-ringing.

  • dirtysteve #39 1 year ago

    'really hard to pull off'

    Fnar fnar.

  • NHDavid #40 1 year ago

    Kinect is going to sell millions and will be awesome!

  • butler` #41 1 year ago

    super

  • Rodchenko #42 1 year ago

    Is it only me, or does tigerstyle sound a lot like vintage farticusmaximus...

  • makeamazing #43 1 year ago

    In the case for Fitness games, not having a controller is a fantastic plus... but fitness and exercise programs are not games.

    In the case of games, indepth complex games, you need a controller. Simple.

  • Machiavellian #44 1 year ago

    I was going to come into here saying "before all the knee jerk reactions to this comment, what company has actually brought you full body motion without thousand dollar equipment". Yes the video game software has some issues to sort out but the technology itself is ace. I have seen a lot of videos that shows that Kinect does fully track two individual people very well with little if no lag but the issues isn't the hardware but getting game software optimized.

    The hardware is nothing new but what MS is doing behind the scenes is all MS Research. Even the hardware vendor gave praise to MS on how they tackled the full body motion. It's easy to knee jerk the same stuff we have heard for weeks but in reality, the software probably will catch up with the hardware once developers have enough time to tweak their code.

    I saw a video from Pax that does show that there are optimizations happening with Kinect. Previous videos showed that when a person moved there was a visible delay between kinect and what the person was doing. In the Pax video, I have seen is that Kinect has very little to no lag at all which shows that MS is getting a handle on the lag. The technology seems to work very well even when object obscure the player or when another play gets in the way of the other.

    The device doesn't release until November and there are visible improvements so I will hold off my comments to how good or bad Kinect will be until it actually release.

  • Diomedes #45 1 year ago

    Yeah ,it must have been super-hard to do something as super-shitty...

  • matsumoto #46 1 year ago

    So every company that fails to make good games should be blamed because it can't manage the super-superior tech? Pretty good excuse for MS for lack of good games!!

  • Machiavellian #47 1 year ago

    So every company that fails to make good games should be blamed because it can't manage the super-superior tech? Pretty good excuse for MS for lack of good games!!

    Wasn't this the mantra for a lot of PS3 fans??? It was the devs fault not the PS3 hardware. Anytime a game did not come up to par to current standards or was subpar on the PS3 and shined on the 360 it was the devs and not the hardware.

    I am just wondering but could it actually be more complicated to do full body motion tracking then just tracking a light bulb. From what I have read, it doesn't sound like its something easy or it would have been done a long time ago. I keep hearing people call the launch games for Kinect crap but the majority haven't even played the demos. Just because a game is not oriented towards your particular taste doesn't make it crap.

    So MS is starting with simple games that were easy to make in the short period of time devs had a chance with the device. It's not like you are forced to buy the thing when it release. Hell, there is enough games to supply the core for quite some time. I know I am not pressed to buy kinect but I just might get it because it does have a pretty good hook for the kids in my family.

  • SilentNinja92 #48 1 year ago

    Im sure kinect will be great but tbh for a core gamer its not offering up much at the moment. The only game it seems to work for that is core is Forza 3. Id have liked to have seen shooters announced for it but maybe thats not really possible.

  • mkreku #49 1 year ago

    I can't help myself, I have to post this here too:

    [link url=http://www.gametrailers.com/video/video-physics-kin ect/703804
    ]http://ww w.gametrailers.com/video/video-...[/link]

    I don't think Microsoft managed to pull it off either..

  • Spekingur #50 1 year ago

    bigbadbeasty wrote:
    Not exactly original. Achievements have been in PC for quite some time, prior to the 360. Same for online play, that has been around for a long time even on consoles. They may be all bundled up in a neat package, but they are not innovations or original.

    Achievements may have been but MS introduced it to the general public in such a way that it become an obsession to many. They also included GamerScore with it so each time you unlock an achievement you get the GS along with it. This nature of collecting points for doing something somehow clicks with us humans in such a way that we need them. I don't know why though. I think most XBox 360 gamers can name at least one game where they felt almost compelled to get 1000GS out of.

    XBox did in fact affect how Sony developed their PSN and trophies. PSN wouldn't be as robust as it is today without XBox Live having come to life. Trophies would never have seen the light of day if MS has not introduced Achievements.

    Also, there is nothing wrong in taking all the good things and packaging them together into one neat and effective, err, package. That's what WoW did in the MMO world.

  • Machiavellian #51 1 year ago

    I can't help myself, I have to post this here too:

    [link url=http://ww w.gametrailers.com/video/video-...
    ]http://ww w.gametrailers.com/video/video-...[/link]

    I don't think Microsoft managed to pull it off either..

    Interesting that you should post that video. I came away with a different opinion. I am looking at kinect and how it tracks the two guys not the dumb avatars. The avatars is just coding which gets better as developers are able to properly parse the information from kinect. What interested me is how Kinect was able to follow the two guys and for the most part track their movements with little to no lag. It was also able to track their limbs when an object obscured their body. In certain instants, Kinect was able to keep track of both people when they came together.

    It's actually that video that showed me that Kinect has improved from previsous videos that I have seen. There was one video during CES or something where this woman was jumping and moving her arms and there was a visible delay between her actions and what kinect followed. In this video, I could barely see the delay and this was tracking two people instead of one.

  • Les #52 1 year ago

    Always interesting to see the marketing flow: start with promising the moon and then carefully deflate until release.

  • duckncover #53 1 year ago

    Isn't the software to replace all the hardware they ripped out of the original concept in order to make it cheaper? They want congratulating for that?!

  • TRUTH #54 1 year ago

    Kinect now has lower resolution and less processing power. A calculating processor chip also now been removed...this is not the original design for Kinect as was 1st originally previewed by MS - making it less powerful in all areas, esp with response times - making it awkward and fiddly to control, not as accurate now, slow and suffers lag, not responsive at times, concerns about distance, voice control concerns reported, not able to use sitting down, no sense of accuracy depth and control due to physical control...Kinect is no more then a experiment test for a better version for MS next-gen console, so probably be short lived with a lot of dumb shovel ware games.

    if you don't belive me - go to London Gallery (Check 1st it's still there)...People used it a few minutes and got fed up with it. I experinced it and it's nothing like MS false happy families claims dem0's showed to the world - it's not even close!