Molyneux: Judge Kinect on "the next step"

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 9 August, 2010

Sports and Adventures are "pretty good".

Fable III and Project Milo head honcho Peter Molyneux has told gamers to judge Xbox 360 motion sensor Kinect not on its launch titles but what follows.

Some of Kinect's launch titles, including Kinect Adventures and Rare's Kinect Sports, have been criticised by core gamers.

Issues with lag and a casual-focus have dogged Kinect, due out in the UK in November, in the run up to its release.

But Lionhead Studios boss Molyneux will judge Microsoft's new tech not on its launch games, but "the next step", he told Joystiq.

"We can do core games with it, we can do totally immersive games, it enables us designers to do unique experiences that have never been touched before.

"But that takes us time, man. It really does. When we transitioned from the PC to the console with Fable, it took us five years to do that. And that's just going from a mouse to a controller.

"And this is like going from a controller to nothing. It just takes - for us to get that right immersive experience - it's just going to take a little bit of time.

"I'm sure that's going to happen. And I'm fighting for that to happen with Milo and whatever we do with Fable in the future. It just takes time.

"And this is one of the reasons why I'm absolutely vehement about not giving a release date for Milo. Because as soon as I give that release date, then I'm on this express train and it's gotta get finished.

"And it requires so much artistry and balancing and tweaking and polishing. Because - and I'm not saying this as a Microsoft person, I'm talking purely as a designer - I really truly believe that something like Kinect, changing that input device, could make us leap forward in the form of entertainment we make.

"But doing that in nine months? To be a launch title is very, very hard.

"And, actually, I've played [Kinect] Sports. I've actually played a hell of a lot of Sports. And it's pretty good. And [Kinect] Adventures is pretty good. Considering the amount of time, I think they're pretty good experiences.

"I think anybody that gets Kinect that and buys those titles, they're not gonna be disappointed. But they should really, really be excited by what comes next. 'Cause that's what I judge Kinect on, is what the next step is."

Kinect, which comes bundled with Kinect Adventures, will cost £130 in the UK.

Digital Foundry delved deep into the world of Kinect and returned with a compelling case.

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (50) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Arwin #1 2 years ago

    I don't think these kind of comments really help. 'Pretty good' can be termed 'damning praise', particularly from Mr Populous (big fan, btw). But perhaps he was responding to this inside his mind?:

    http://www.gamesradar.com/f/kinect-vs-mo...
    Edited by Arwin at 09/08/10 @ 08:54

  • waynenot #2 2 years ago

    "And it requires so much artistry and balancing and tweaking and polishing."

    Try doing that with Fable 3 now - it might not turn out like Fable 2 that way.

    "We've got wind you all think it's a bit shit - please buy it." I think that's what he meant to say.

    And Peter, that reads very much like it's from a Microsoft person and has a slight whiff of damage control.
    Edited by waynenot at 09/08/10 @ 09:05

  • woodnotes #3 2 years ago

    Yes, I thought that. "Pretty good" coming from a Microsoft representative?

  • spekkeh #4 2 years ago

    And it's pretty good. And [Kinect] Adventures is pretty good. Considering the amount of time, I think they're pretty good experiences.

    For a non native speaker, is this British understatement, or damning with faint praise?

  • TheNinkyNonk #5 2 years ago

    I'm supposed to have faith about what's on the horizon from a man who, by his own admission, took five years to make the rather average Fable?

  • NimbusTLD #6 2 years ago

    Uh-oh. Sounds like the PS3 and it's launch promise of future potential.

    "Yes our launch titles suck, but come on buy it, it will get better... maybe...we hope..."

  • spekkeh #7 2 years ago

    I'm hoping he gets Milo right. I can't say the game seems particularly appealing to me, but he could be right, there certainly is potential to move games to a whole new level with tech like this. I don't buy it though, there was potential in the wiimote too, but nobody except Nintendo had the faintest clue how to go about achieving this and roughly followed their initial lead by creating shovelware and naming it casual.

    Four years on, and the wiimote improved core games only by making mouse pointer games possible on the console and giving games like Mario Galaxy a more tactile feel. The real improvement in Mario games is how the levels are brilliantly cognitively scaffolded; something they didn't need controllers for.

  • Lee_Morris #8 2 years ago

    Ringing endorsment from Peter Molyneux. In all honesty though it it's nice to see someone in Molyneux's position being a bit more honest about the launch games. I do believe MS has dropped the ball by not showing at least ONE 'core' game working with Kinect. Say what you want about Sony and move but at least they have covered quite a few bases.

    I was reading the Kinect article in EDGE and does anyone else think Kinectnimals looks really American? Wierd I know but it just struck me. It's from Frontier as well.

  • jag10 #9 2 years ago

    So basically the PS3 at launch. At least it was the likes of metal gear solid 4, god of war 3 etc and not fricken milo that the ps3 users were happy to wait for.

  • GreyBeard #10 2 years ago

    How long ago was that Milo demonstration Pete? More than 9 months, oh yes I think it was...

  • braydee89 #11 2 years ago

    Didn't Moly say he was trying to cut down on hyperbole? That's what this interview sounds like. Also, we have no idea how much emphasis was on "pretty good" maybe when he said it, it was a compliment to the game, translated to print it doesn't sound so good.

  • rudderless #12 2 years ago

    Molyneux talks up a game and he's overhyping it. He goes for subtle understatement and he's damning with faint praise.

    Bloke can't catch a break.

  • Geordiemp #13 2 years ago

    Digital Foundry delved deep into the world of Kinect and returned with a compelling case

    If you count the commments section, its probably about 90 % against at the moment, MS could at leaast show some work in progress.

    I suspect they have NO plans for any good kinect games.

  • Kalime #14 2 years ago

    "Please buy our product, we might bring you something good in the future..." basically, buy it on faith, and if enough people do the same, maybe some developpers will look at developping some good core gamers in the future. No certainty, no word on what it could be...
    Well that's probably just me, but I have lost faith.. I'm playing more and more my PS3 and less and less my 360... and sorry but I am not paying anything for something that could maybe have potential in a few years... if it does I'll buy it at that time... I'm tired of manufacturers bringing unfinished products to the table (the three rings of dead) and expect consumers to just pay for their mistake and unreadiness. This is no way of doing business... You guys at MS still need to learn a lot from Nintendo and Sony...

  • GiarcYekrub #15 2 years ago

    Surely the headline should be "Molyneux admits that Kinect is unfinished"

  • Haloboy #16 2 years ago

    Or better still "Molyneux admits he is unfinished".

  • BAM! #17 2 years ago

    Bu bu bu, teh potential!!!1!

  • NimbusTLD #18 2 years ago

    @werty10

    What EG reader would even consider buying Louis Vuitton handbags?? We're saving up our monies for Kinect!

  • 3william56 #19 2 years ago

    @spekkeh - it's damned by faint praise. If that's the best Peter "the hype" Moly can say, it must be a real mess.

    Let me translate for you: PM is saying don't buy Kinect for at least a year, when (a) there might be a game worth having, and (b) MS's bottomless Xbox subsidy moneyhat will have kicked in, and they'll be giving them away for free.

    Microsoft will be loving that statement from their chief Kinect spruiker.

    (But let's face it, it applies to both Move and Kinect, just Move looks like it might just be worth a swift buy as it has a couple of launch titles that look decent (Tumbler, Echochrome, Sports), and with demos already shown, may only be a few months before the really good stuff starts to trickle out, like Resi, Killzone, Heavy Rain, SOCOM etc. With nothing of any note even demonstratable a month before launch, Kinect's good stuff must be a looooong way away.)

  • sanctusmortis #20 2 years ago

    Bah. You people are all mad.

    All he's saying is, launch titles had 9 months; big, bestseller games typically take 2-3 years. For the time they had, the launch stuff is good, but the best and most impressive stuff is a while away yet.

    But because it's Molyneux, you fall over yourselves to bash. Pathetic.

  • Haloboy #21 2 years ago

    What we all fall over is a pile of broken promises!

  • BBIAJ #22 2 years ago

    @3william56:

    You seem to have forgotten about September and October, it's actually three months until Kinect launches, not one...

  • Mkwone #23 2 years ago

    According to PM he said lionhead started working on Milo in December 08, what's that 18 months? you'd think by now they'd be more videos of intent than casual games.

    Sure it might take several years to release games, but you'd think they'd be able to pull together some videos showing core gameplay to at least give the gamers a bit of hope.

    As it stands my only hope is for Forza and Milo/fable 3 to be decent.

  • sneetch #24 2 years ago

    I'm interested in what they do with Kinect after launch but the launch titles are all you realistically can judge it on at the moment. You can't judge something based on vague promises of theoretical future games. Once they bring something truly impressive to market I'll be all over Kinect until then I'll be judging it based on what's actually there.

  • IronGiant #25 2 years ago

    As soon as the Wii successor is announced kinect will die a swift death! Regarding kinect itself is there anything in it that is patented and can't be done by anyone else?

  • metalangel #26 2 years ago

    I'm not paying £130 for 'pretty good'.

    @rudderless: if he'd just shut his face for a bit, he would.

    @paddy: Earth

  • andromeda #27 2 years ago

    get back to your desk Peter

  • ReservingJudgement #28 2 years ago

    Love it: "Some of Kinect's launch titles, including Kinect Adventures and Rare's Kinect Sports, have been criticised by core gamers."

    One assumes that these are the core gamers that mouthed off about how poor Wii Sports looked and how shoddy Zelda seemed to be before the Wii came out, and that can now be found prancing around, trying to get the damned console to recognise the same input twice?

    Yeah, they would also be the "core gamers" that haven't actually used Kinect. I thought it was great fun, myself. Perhaps the "core gamers" need to get their heads out of their backsides and realise that fun can be provided by genres other than the ones that they subscribe to. A game doesn't need 400,000 bullets on screen just to be good.

    @Kalime - Given that my THIRD PS3 has just died with the "yellow lights of death", I'm not about to turn Kinect down because my launch Xbox 360 was still working when I received my 360S. I've preordered Move, although whether my PS3 will be back in time to actually use it, is another matter. More interested in gaming experiences, personally, than the bizarre politics of fanboys and what I can do to cut my nose off to spite my face.
    Edited by ReservingJudgement at 09/08/10 @ 10:31

  • Kikizosan #29 2 years ago

    Surely we can only judge it on the next step when it's taken the next step? I'm not laying down my money until it's proven itself a worthy purchase.

    I understand first gen games for any new piece of tech aren't going to wring the most out of the hardware, but it's more the direction of the games announced so far that leaves me cold.

    I'm perfectly happy to accept that Kinect is (currently) not being marketed at me, but don't try to sell it to me on 'what it will become'.

  • GiarcYekrub #30 2 years ago

    Who said "how shoddy Zelda seemed to be before the Wii came out" ? bloody hell Ocarina of Time, Link to the Past are all time classics. Majoras Mask is genius and even Wind Waker has "unique" appeal actually Twilight Princess on the Gamecube is pretty cool too. I've read many reviews and I can't recall "shoddy" as a description for any of them, In comments or review text

  • MrFlump #31 2 years ago

    I think people are a bit quick to bash Molyneux, but his point is correct and he does know what he's talking about. Just because his own games don't quite live up to expectations many have, doesn't mean his opinion is any less valid than anyone posting here.

    He's right in saying that the launch titles aren't the ones that are going to be defining the product, its the ones that come after that people remember. From my own memory we had Project Dark, Kameo, PGR3 and Viva Pinata at launch for the xbox360 originally. Hardly inspiring content for a launch - some good games, but nothing spectacular by todays standards and all pretty much forgettable. Then we moved into stuff like Oblivion, BF2, Ninety-Nine nights, Dead Rising and Gears of War which people remember.

    The first content is going to pretty much just going to be showing off stuff, the subsequent releases thats made are what people will remember it for. Unfortunately, i think the problem here is the pricing and that if the uptake is low because of that pretty offputting price that we may not see what its potential is as developers find it not worth the investment since the returns may be lower.

  • RodHull #32 2 years ago

    @MrFlump

    Viva piñata came out a couple of years post launch. But the 360 had Call of Duty 2, PGR3, Condemned, Amped 3 and aforementioned Rare titles. Whilst not the greatest selection of games if still argue that it was the best launch line up of any console before or after. Anyone recall the PS2 launch line up? Beyond poor. And the N64 line up consisted of Mario 64 and Pilotwings. I appreciate quality over quantity but two games?!

  • Trinod #33 2 years ago

    Everybody wank in time with Peter

  • FogHeart #34 2 years ago

    Considering that precision, response and reliability are crucial to 'core' gamers, they're going to have a tough time making a Kinect game that appeals to them. Hell, I haven't even heard of a concept for a core game yet. None of the traditional game types that core gamers play seem to translate to kinect without the motion controls appearing 'tacked on'. It may be a failure of imagination, but then again we've all had a long time to think about it.

  • Trinod #35 2 years ago

    PS2 launch line up included SSX and that was a wonderful game...oh and wasn't Timesplitters out at launch too? Both great franchises

  • Machiavellian #36 2 years ago

    Personally, I am going to wait and see how Kinect turns out. I had all kinds of opinion of the Wii before it was released and all of them proved wrong. I really do not have a clue what moves the casual market but I can tell you those awful comercial we see for Kinecanimals and Adventure work because I have shown them to people who do not play games, never even thought about buying a 360 and after showing them those comercial, they were interested.

    Even though I have seen nothing that is coming out for Kinect that I want to play, I must say that Adventure and Kinecanimals do connect with the kids in my household. My son and daugther who is 4 and 2 would absolutly love kinectanimals. My older son who is 12 would love Adventures with his buddies because when they play the Wii they like to stand up and play even if the game does not require it. They like active games like that and I know it would really appeal. This is probably the main reason why I will buy kinect. Not for myself but the rest of the family.

  • Machiavellian #37 2 years ago

    Also I believe everyone should actually read the complete interview from Joystiq if you can. It presents Peter in a much better light then he is given credit for.

  • Rack #38 2 years ago

    So my £130 might get me some good experiences in 10 years? Time to rearrange the living room!

  • Xardan #39 2 years ago

    We will have to wait and see what Kinect can offer core players (if anything) in the future. So save your judgement till then.

  • makeamazing #40 2 years ago

    Yes its a definately a wait and see situation, but if your paying £100+ for a device you dont want to have to wait 2 years for something potentially good to come out.

    I think the great thing with Sony is the open view about the SDK/demos. Some of them are amazing and can show exactly what the device can do before games companies get on board with it. This is one of the things i have a big issue with. Either MS have brought this device to market way before they were ready, or they just dont have anything significant to offer core gamers with Kinect. Or perhaps they just didnt consider doing tech demos that would show how it could be used (undersight if thats the case).

    At the moment i still dont see how they are going to add to the core experience (AAA games etc)... now that is either my lack of imagination or its more a case of, its just not that easy without a controller.

    The other issue i have is with Milo, when they want to try and appease gamers, they bring it out and say, this is going to be amazing, it will learn from experiences etc.. then a week later its, oh its just a tech demo... not a game. That makes me very worried that they are just doing smoke and mirrors of the E3 2009 style.

  • darleysam #41 2 years ago

    I seem to have clicked into some kind of retard rodeo while looking for the comments section on a news story. If it gets much dumber in here, I worry it may just collapse in on itself.

  • orangpelupa #42 2 years ago

    i wish project Milo technology, ai, etc will able to be used by other developer....

    /me looking at Konami, hoping love plus kinect :p
    /me looking @ namco, hoping kinetim@s (kinect idolm@ster lol). Playing the "train the girl to do sing, dance, etc etc" with kinect will be awkward but fun.
    also can do handclap, shouting.

    will look ridiculus, but can laugh together with friends when many come to my home playing lol.
    already laugh a lot using Wii currently.
    Edited by orangpelupa at 09/08/10 @ 13:59

  • Kalime #43 2 years ago

    @reservingjudgement: hahaha, thank you for your answer ^_^ I'm definitely a fanboy, but I am not a conquered territory for neither Sony, MS nor Nintendo. What I'm trying to say is that to me MS is on a downward trend with a product losing its appeal over time and still have the habit of launching products with bugs and need for future patch. I feel let down by the approach they are taking, and am not serioulsy considering continuing this relationship as I have to give more than I get ^_^

    "Happy" to hear that you had so many issues with your PS3... it's bringing some balance back into the matrix ^_^

  • Zero Beat #44 2 years ago

    Crap launch games and the body tracking will never enable really polished core games. I'd rather forget EyeToy and Kinect ever existed.

  • Ryze #45 2 years ago

    This camera needs to be able to zoom in and track ONLY finger, hand and arm gestures. That's the key to 'Minority Report' style hardcore tracking - virtual hands, keyboards, cockpits, etc.

    Right now - it looks like jump around wave your arms shite.

  • Ryze #46 2 years ago

    ^ ...+ face and voice.

    At the moment, Kinect is like the PS3 launch. A waste of money - wait 2 years.

  • makeamazing #47 2 years ago

    PS3 came good in the end and is a pretty good console now, will Kinect tbe any better in 2 years time?

  • Ryze #48 2 years ago

    ^ Depends on how well it can be used to track the hand gestures of sitting players.

    That, the next waves of games, and the game bundled pricepoint.

  • orangpelupa #49 2 years ago

    if used on PC, kinect should nearer to human than when used on xbox. So maybe it can deteck hand gesture.

    btw in minority report, the character use glove with LED on fingers. Like what we already can so using software like Camspace. (but it need different color)

  • man.the.king #50 2 years ago

    @paddy29

    "In what planet was Fable average? "

    I can't speak for others, but..to answer your question:

    On this one. For me.