Next-gen bigwigs trade blows

By Tom Bramwell Published 1 June, 2005

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo openly criticise one another.

Some of Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo's highest-ranking executives have spoken out in the pages of a Japanese newspaper just after the Electronic Entertainment Expo, addressing one another's next-generation ambitions in rather scornful terms.

Sony's Ken Kutaragi, who presented PlayStation 3 to the world press in Los Angeles earlier this month, used the piece published by Asahi Shinbun and partially translated by US website GameSpot to belittle Microsoft, claiming that the company was not a threat, and suggesting that their next next-generation machine might be the one to watch - implying that Xbox 360 will fail to make a mark on PlayStation 3.

With regard to sales of Xbox, which briefly eclipsed those of PlayStation 2 in the USA recently, Kutaragi appeared to mock what many perceive to be his company's chief adversary. "Beating us for a short moment is like accidentally winning a point from a Shihan [Karate master], and Microsoft is still not a black belt," he said.

However, Microsoft's Chief Xbox Officer Robbie Bach said Sony and Nintendo's presentations "weren't surprising", claiming that the PlayStation 3's capabilities were equivalent to Xbox 360's and declaring: "We will become the market leader with our next-generation console."

Nintendo president Satoru Iwata, meanwhile, cast doubt on the efforts of both Sony and Microsoft, complaining that the concentration on CPU power and high definition visuals would "bloat up development costs".

Once again, Iwata's message was that Nintendo wants to attract non-gamers to the medium by creating games that differ from the current crop, citing Nintendogs as an example of how it's already started to do this. "We're not about selling new kinds of TVs or taking control of the living room," he added on the subject of technology.

Kutaragi and Bach also traded blows on the specifics of their machines, with Bach claiming that PS3's support for seven players on one console, and double HDTV output, was a step too far, and that using Blu-Ray disc media was a big risk.

Kutaragi, meanwhile, said that using Blu-Ray was an attempt to spur on sales of Blu-Ray compatible devices in much the same way he feels that PS2 helped boost the consumer DVD market since 2000.

Microsoft's Xbox 360 console is due to launch worldwide later this year at around $300, while Sony's PlayStation 3 is due next spring and Nintendo is expected to release Revolution at a lower price in mid 2006, with a European release perhaps following later in the year or early in 2007.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (275) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • teabagger #1 7 years ago

    Seeing grown men behave like they're kids arguing over a bag of sweets makes me disinclined to buy any of their products.

  • Teeth #2 7 years ago

    Well there's nothing really new in there anyway. But I agree, it would be nice to see them get along nicely.

  • ali-uk #3 7 years ago

    Ooo, handbags at dawn!

  • Blerk #4 7 years ago

    "We will become the market leader with our next-generation console."

    Heh. In his dreams, maybe.

    Anyway, nice to see them all being so 'grown up' about it. :-)

  • ElephantMonkey #5 7 years ago

    amusing

  • Freek #6 7 years ago

    next press release from any one of them:

    "Dude! You're so totaly gettting illegal government fudding to subsidise you're failing console, i'm totally telling mom...I mean the WTO!"

  • captain-future #7 7 years ago

    "We're not about selling new kinds of TVs or taking control of the living room,"
    hehe, good one.

    sony feels very secure and underestimates microsoft. interesting, I think that's not a wise thing to do.

    ...children playing in the garden...

  • drumbaby #8 7 years ago

    Blimey, they sound like a right bunch of fanboys.

  • space_ace #9 7 years ago

    stupid.

  • ukdm #10 7 years ago

    I think it's Microsoft making the mistake with the XBox 360. They are releasing too early meaning the mass market wont buy straight away, PS3 is coming next year which they are sure to advertise heavily so people will wait and compare the 2. They also seem to be pushing all the wrong features. Games are coming secondary to HDTV, faceplates and online services. I don't want Microsoft to fail but I do hope 360 gives them a massive kick up the backside as to how not to deliver a games machine. I firmly believe they will be in second place again this time round with Revolution potentially taking that spot off them by the end of '07.

  • Tonka #11 7 years ago

    That Kutaragi fella seems a bit biased

  • octo #12 7 years ago

    Arguing over the next gen is pointless. Brothers, sisters come together. Can't we just agree that they're stupid evil idiot fucks?

  • JHuxley #13 7 years ago

    " I just love these types of story, magnets for retarded fanboys.

    Oh wait, no, I hate them for encouraging them."

    Now look what you've gone and done!

  • DaM #14 7 years ago

    They are the fanboys! I bet they sit up all night posting crap!

  • NonnyMouse #15 7 years ago

    I love this stuff. It's just as good as a videogame. C'mon, goves off!

    I can't help feeling that Sony will have to screw up badly for MS
    to have any chance of further market share gain - and so far,
    there's no sign of that happening.

  • FredMT #16 7 years ago

    Round: 1/2. Blah, blah, blah.
    Round:1. Boring...
    Does anyone care about these #d@ots?
    Nothing new here: moving on...

    Was anyone disappointed as me to read that nVidia said their graphic module for the PS3 wasn't finished yet? And what was Sony showing that made people go 'aahhh' if it wasn't a working console?
    Ditto for MS and their Xbox 365...

  • gerg #17 7 years ago

    ''Was anyone disappointed as me to read that nVidia
    said their graphic module for the PS3 wasn't finished yet?
    And what was Sony showing that made people go 'aahhh' if it
    wasn't a working console?
    Ditto for MS and their Xbox
    365... ''

    Well apparently the Revolution shown was an empty box with a light in it. So, no one's really that ready for the next gen.

  • Feanor #18 7 years ago

    '"We will become the market leader with our
    next-generation console."

    Heh. In his dreams,
    maybe.'

    Stranger things have happened in this industry.

  • The-Bodybuilder #19 7 years ago

    >"sony feels very
    secure and underestimates microsoft. interesting, I think
    that's not a wise thing to do."

    Nintendo did that (twice), and look where it got them.

    I say ken and bill should just duke it out on a pay-per-view MTV show.

  • Cubfan #20 7 years ago

    I thought Sony already won the next gen war? I remember reading it somewhere.

  • The-Bodybuilder #21 7 years ago

    Also EG, you should have posted the part where ken talks about the (possible) ps3 high price isn't a "bad thing" and how most customer would rather drive a "BMW with a ferrari engine" (but seems to forget that most people can't afford a BMW, let alone a ferrari).

  • smelly #22 7 years ago

    "but underpowering their Revolution like they have with the Gamecube is a mistake"

    The gamecube is underpowered? Couldve fooled me?

    Anyhow they havent said anywhere (apart from a misquote in a paper which wrongly stated it'll be 2 or 3 times faster that the cube.. This remark has been stated as being wrong btw) that the revolution would be underpowered.

    All they've said is that the other two are concentrating TOO much on cpu power and not other things. That doesnt necesarrily say to me that the revolution will be underpowered, just that they're looking at other things as well as power.

    For example, it could be slightly less powerful, but cheaper to make, but the upshot is that joe public wont be able to tell the difference. Look at the number of fanboys who believe the ps2 is technically superior to the cube for an example of this.


    "Revolution potentially taking that spot off them by the end of '07"

    How the hell you could possibly say this, without knowing the specs of the revolution, or seeing any games running on it, is beyond me.

  • IronGiant #23 7 years ago

    "However, Microsoft's Chief Xbox Officer Robbie Bach said Sony and Nintendo's presentations "weren't surprising", claiming that the PlayStation 3's capabilities were equivalent to Xbox 360's and declaring: "We will become the market leader with our next-generation console."

    Hmmm this is interesting to read IMO, bearing in mind that Major Nelson said the XBox360 was more powerful etc. Gotta admire MS's confidence, though i have no doubt Sony will be market leader again.. god knows what excuses Mr Bach will come up with then! ;P

  • drumbaby #24 7 years ago

    "(but seems to forget that most people can't afford a
    BMW, let alone a ferrari)."

    £300-£400 for a Beemer/Ferrari? Bargain!

  • octo #25 7 years ago

    They might become market leader in North America. And that would be an enormous achievement. However I think they will be second pretty much everywhere else. Apart from Japan where they will languish in third place again.

  • freedumb #26 7 years ago

    Its all kicking off now, isn't it? Where's the popcorn, and when's round two starting?

  • captain-future #27 7 years ago

    BMW does something right in their marketing if some chap is comparing their new toy with it. ;-)

  • The-Bodybuilder #28 7 years ago

    "£300-£400 for a Beemer/Ferrari?
    Bargain!"

    Yeah, and you would need to buy GT5 (when it comes out in 2009) for that.

  • The12thMonkey #29 7 years ago

    Six of one and half a dozen of the other by the sounds of it. I say lets wait for the consles and find out for ourselves, eh?

  • The-Bodybuilder #30 7 years ago

    >"I thought Sony already won the next gen war? I remember
    reading it somewhere."

    What next gen war? From what I've read, the ps3 is the only "real next gen" console. ;)

    /jumps behind sofa.

  • Negotiator #31 7 years ago

    Hmmm
    this is interesting to read IMO, bearing in mind that Major
    Nelson said the XBox360 was more powerful etc. Gotta admire
    MS's confidence, though i have no doubt Sony will be market
    leader again.. god knows what excuses Mr Bach will come up
    with then! ;P
    A worldwide release at the end of the year, at least 3 AAA titles, more money than both Sony and Nintendo put together and Halo 3 in the spring of 2006, I'd say they've got a good chance.

  • mcmonkeyplc #32 7 years ago

    Shit! Run for cover!

    /runs

  • jumpdeveraux #33 7 years ago

    "Well apparently the Revolution shown was an empty box with a light in it."

    So production hardware then ;)

  • IronGiant #34 7 years ago

    It's not as simple as that.. behind all the bravado MS know damn well they've got a real challenge on their hands to get anywhere near Sony.

  • mattigan #35 7 years ago

    Did Nintendo show ANYTHING claimed to be running on the Revolution at E3?

  • valli #36 7 years ago

    Before I gag on my own vomit, I'm going to say this

    Finally, one of them mongtards is gone! \o/

  • gerg #37 7 years ago

    Mattigan:

    Yeah, they showed a bit of a Metroid clip. There was meant to be more to it, but they held back as they didn't want people thinking taht Metroid is one of the bigger series.

  • farakdagler #38 7 years ago

    Nope, Nintendo stated that it wasn't in-game which means there's no reason to think that it was running on anything like the revolution.

    >Well apparently the Revolution shown was
    >an empty box with a light in it. So, no one's really that
    >ready for the next gen.
    No, no! That's the revolution! It's an empty magic box. :-)

  • smelly #39 7 years ago

    "Yeah, they showed a bit of a Metroid clip."

    No they didnt.. That was just a clip to say.. "hey revolution will have metroid on it", it wasnt said to be running on revolution or anything like that, it was just a presentation aid.

  • gerg #40 7 years ago

    My mistake them...

  • Teeth #41 7 years ago

    "#d@ots"

    Don't you dare say that word around here!

  • Vin #42 7 years ago

    Yeah, Kutaragi's good at rhetoric.

    He's a fucking legend at it.

  • caligari #43 7 years ago

    Yeah, but MY 128K Spectrum is STILL better than your Commodore 64!

  • smelly #44 7 years ago

    "Yeah, but MY 128K Spectrum is STILL better than your Commodore 64!"

    HAHA! Yeah.. but back then it was about games, and so the speccy ruled, mainly due to better framerates!

    Now the fanboys just care about how pretty their pixels are.. they'd all be comodore 64 fans..


  • Ace_McCloud #45 7 years ago

    "...underpowering their Revolution like they have
    with the Gamecube is a mistake. The N64 Mario Kart to
    Gamecube Mario Kart is too small an improvement (if there
    was any)."

    Woah woah woah! Hold the phone! Back up just a minute!...Mario Kart on the Gamecube is a HUGE improvement over the N64! Perhaps you should take off those rose tinted glasses and play the N64 original again - I did, and it was rubbish. As far as Gamecube being underpowered: EH!? Surely its at least the second most powerful out there at present?

    ...and while I'm at it: Come on Nintendo! Get with the programme! Sony and Microsoft are making home entertainment units because its the FUTURE! How many people were pissed off that their GC didnt play DVD's? Yet Nintendo, you said people wouldnt want that and you were wrong... if it wasnt for the fact that I love your games I'd say you were a bunch of chumps... If its going to be a revolution to beat Sony and Microsoft, it better be a fucking big French sized revolution... you dicks... and I wish this post would make a difference...
    Edited by 1 at 01/06/05 @ 18:48

  • a8a #46 7 years ago

    To be honest, Im surprised Nintendo unveiled Revolution at E3 at all. Im no marketing expert, but I would have thought that their best bet, when releasing something that was obviously a little different and offbeat from the mainstream consoles, would be to let MS and Sony duke it out at E3 with a fairly low-brow showing (not that it was exactly off the scale in that respect anyway ^^;) and then announce it later in the year when things had calmed down a bit with the inevitable spec wars, maybe at the TGS in September.

  • a8a #47 7 years ago

    Sony and Microsoft are making home entertainment units because its the FUTURE!

    Yes, perhaps - but you have to recall that Nintendo started out as a toy company. When games consoles were toys, they made the best damn games consoles out there. Now games consoles are home entertainment units, but Nintendo is still making toys. And damn good ones too. And theyre also making lots of money, so its hard to fault them on it really.

  • spazmo #48 7 years ago

    ^^Agreed^^

    Also, there is going to be 2 "home entertainment systems" on the market soon. Why do you want a third?

  • Gareth.de #49 7 years ago

    And what was Sony showing that made people go 'aahhh' if it
    wasn't a working console?

    I heard their demos were running on an Xbox 360.

  • Ace_McCloud #50 7 years ago

    A fair point... in which case comparing the systems at all is made fairly redundant isn't it? But then why include DVD playback at all? surely that's the first step to home entertainment-dom, or whatever... I respect Nintendo's background, but come on, this market is evolving and reluctantly or not I'm betting Nintendo will move the way Sony and Microsoft have eventually... But still, like you say, they're making money and who can fault them - its just I like Nintendo and I want a big jazzy machine like the other two have got made by Nintendo...

  • Gareth.de #51 7 years ago

    But they lack the budget to make such a machine and deliver it at the cost of the other 2. Or they could do it and spend as much on advertising as Sega did with the Dreamcast = next to nothing.

    Nintendo has chosen its path for a reason - not for the good of mankind and not because it loves you - because it can't afford to compete with the others on their own terms. Whether you wank over Nintendo magazines at night and/or think of them as your best friend or not, they are a company, and companies are out to get your money. If they did it for the love of it as they so often like to portray then they'd give the consoles away for free.

  • gerg #52 7 years ago

    Nintendo has and is all about being a family company. That means they need to take into account violent games and loads of other factors, including: PRICE

    Nintendo didn't put in a DVD drive in the GC because they knew it would cost a lot to produce, and thus the machine would cost more to buy. I think Nintendo was the only console that actually made money with each sale at its launch price.

    There are different reasons for missing the boat on other things, i.e. having no internet connection was due to the fact that because not many people had wi-fi when the GameCube was released, and thus it wasn't that pheasable.

    Re Garoth.de: Nintendo CAN afford to compete with Sony and Microscope. If it couldn't, I don't think it would be here. Two generations of the Playstation series and now Microsoft have done a lot of damage to Nintendo's market share, but they're still here, whether you like it or not. Also, Nintendo knows that the market's getting a bit stale. Heck, it's even save the gaming industry once or twice in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if it could do it again.
    Edited by 1 at 01/06/05 @ 19:17

  • Gareth.de #53 7 years ago

    There are different
    reasons for missing the boat on other things, i.e. having no
    internet connection was due to the fact that because not
    many people had wi-fi when the GameCube was released, and
    thus it wasn't that pheasable.

    And what was wrong with broadband/dialup? Online gaming does not HAVE to be Wi-Fi enabled you know...

  • FredMT #54 7 years ago

    There is yet one sure way of Sony crushing the competition: Make their PS3 to DRM free as well as region encoding free! Let people buy whatever game & console from whoever would sell it. Sony could then sit back and count the moolah! And while they are at it, release specs for the PSP's UMD+/-RW discs. Let those Koreans make the actual hardware and once again sit back... Said that before but then again, I am not holding my breath.
    I am still playing Jax & Daxter on my PS2.

  • Gareth.de #55 7 years ago

    Nintendo CAN afford to compete with Sony and Microscope. If it couldn't,
    I don't think it would be here. Two generations of the
    Playstation series and now Microsoft have done a lot of
    damage to Nintendo's market share, but they're still here,
    whether you like it or not.

    Don't take it out on me if that Nintendo flag up your arse is starting to hurt mate. I don't give a rat's arse if Nintendo are here are not - I'm simply stating an objective fact. So you're telling me that Nintendo has as much cash as Sony and Microsoft? Hmmm, maybe you should reconsider that notion? Sega failed with the Dreamcast cos they had 100m to spend on advertising for a make-or-break machine. If Nintendo carries on focussing on Mario and Pikachu for much longer then they'll be forced to leave the hardware business too.

  • mattigan #56 7 years ago

    I will need a new DVD player soon and the Revolution looks like the best of the bunch in the asthetics department.

  • Gareth.de #57 7 years ago

    Since the days of the PS1 the gaming market has matured and is enjoyed by older people. Gaming is no longer seen as something spotty teenagers do in their darkened rooms - gaming is not the domain of toys for kids anymore. Nintendo just can't see this and insist on banging out Pikachu shit year after year, then wonder why sales are being lost to more adult-oriented Sony and Microsoft.

    How many 6 year old kids who enjoy playing telly-tubby style games have the disposable income to blow on a console and software?

    Nintendo need to wake up and realise they need to mature with the market and give the majority what they want. Kiddie games were fine in the days of the Amstrad and Spectrum because they were 2-3 quid each and could be baught for pocket money. Since when the fuck does a kid get 40 quid a week pocket money?

    If they also want to cater for the minority who enjoy Pikachu then fine - set up an internal studio that deals only with that kind of shit and leave them to it, while the big boys make stuff that adults will want to play.

    Or maybe they'd rather ignore common sense and focus on Mario baseball, Mario kart, Mario golf, Mario this, Mario that, etc. and watch enthusiastically as the sales continue to shift to their competition.

    And no I'm not anti-Nintendo before someone who's on the rag starts having a go. I'm just realistic.
    Edited by 1 at 01/06/05 @ 19:37

  • Ace_McCloud #58 7 years ago

    While I agree with you Gareth.de, your previous point was that nintendo are a money grabbing big business and in fairness Pikachu is a big fat Cash Cow for Nintendo, I'm guessing more so than any other videogames franchise, and I dont think Mario et al have done too badly either... Also I'm sure nintendo would argue that their games aim to appeal to both adults and children alike...

    As far as Dreamcast failing on the basis of advertising alone, I think thats a slightly simple deduction - it spent a lot of money failing to go online (which was one of its major selling points) and had the spectre of the PS2 looming over it which promised to be truly Next Gen, bad controllers, no truly killer apps, bad ideas, and then not enough money to rectify their mistakes... As for Nintendo - correct me if I'm wrong - they have a lot more money than Sega ever did, obviously no where near as much as the big guys, but still...

    As far as Revolution I'm thinking nintendo are happy to have their Revolution sitting next to a PS3 or Xbox 360 rather than instead of, despite what they say...
    Edited by 1 at 01/06/05 @ 19:46

  • terminalterror #59 7 years ago

    To be honest, Im surprised Nintendo unveiled Revolution at E3 at all. Im no marketing expert, but I would have thought that their best bet, when releasing something that was obviously a little different and offbeat from the mainstream consoles, would be to let MS and Sony duke it out at E3 with a fairly low-brow showing (not that it was exactly off the scale in that respect anyway ^^;) and then announce it later in the year when things had calmed down a bit with the inevitable spec wars, maybe at the TGS in September.

    Isn't that pretty much exactly what they are doing? They announced a pretty box and the whole downloadable games at E3 just so they weren't forgotten about and to stop people thinking they were 'doing a Sega' and they'll properly unveil it later, possibly as late as E3 2006 if they are aiming for a Holiday 2006 release in Japan. Then they'll show off the games and the 'revolutionary controller' and stuff.

  • Gareth.de #60 7 years ago

    You make some good points, Ace. There were of course many reasons behind the demise of the Dreamcast, but what I'm saying is that the company with the smallest budget (and we're not talking pence here - we're talking millions) simply cannot afford to compete with the other two big guns on their own terms and supply software for minority groups of people.

    I guess it comes down to this - does Nintendo want to be consigned to the history books as a company that sacrficed itself for the sake of unique gaming experiences by producing Pikachu and Mario games constantly, or do they want to be a company that makes money and is still around in 30 years by giving the majority what they want?

    I have a Gamecube, a Dreamcast and an Xbox and I play all three of them about as much as each other. I'm not here to hammer Nintendo. It's just frustrating that a company that has been around for so long is still blindly walking into the jaws of death by insisting on Pikachu games to carry it through the 21st Century.

    The idea of playing 20 years worth of games is revolutionary, but is it going to catch on? In your local Dixons store 7 years ago Mr. Public was comparing the graphics of the Saturn and Playstation and deciding that the Saturn was shit because it had marginally blockier visuals. How does Nintendo think the public is going to react when they see Quake 4 running on one machine and Super Mario World on another?

  • Scimarad #61 7 years ago

    " Seeing grown men behave like they're kids arguing over a bag
    of sweets makes me disinclined to buy any of their products."

    Indeed

  • Ace_McCloud #62 7 years ago

    Gareth.de: Agreed. It's a shame that nintendo rely on Capcom et al to make their A-class adult games (by adult games I mean games that are aimed solely at adults)... As for the Nintendo back catalogue, I'm playing 20 years of nintendo games on my Xbox (and the option is there on everyone's PC) as well as the rest. That's not really a great point as Joe Public probably doesnt know about those possibilities, but still, I like to brag...

  • gerg #63 7 years ago

    Just got to this site. All will be explained...

    http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php

  • Gareth.de #64 7 years ago

    You have a Nintendo emulator for your Xbox? How elite. Do you have a link? ;)

  • Ace_McCloud #65 7 years ago

    www.xbox-scene.com is a good starting point for all your nes/snes/megadrive etc gaming desires... have fun...

  • Gareth.de #66 7 years ago

    Well thanks! ;)

    Now to set up an auction on eBay - "Buy a Revolution right now!!!" and email that link to the winning bidder. :p

  • Burton2000 #67 7 years ago

    If they also want to cater for the
    minority who enjoy Pikachu then fine - set up an internal
    studio that deals only with that kind of shit and leave them
    to it, while the big boys make stuff that adults will want
    to play


    umm im sure pokemon game are mainly produced by gamefreek and they are only published by nintendo.

  • gerg #68 7 years ago

    ''I guess it comes down to this - does Nintendo
    want to be consigned to the history books as a company that
    sacrficed itself for the sake of unique gaming experiences
    by producing Pikachu and Mario games constantly, or do they
    want to be a company that makes money and is still around in
    30 years by giving the majority what they want?''

    So, you want a future where all that gets published are Driver 900s and GTA: Pencil Towns????

    Look, you even say it yourself, Nintendo publishes unique games. Why, a game which you can play with electronic bongo drums - has it been seen on the PS2 - no??? Nintendo also does great things for the gaming market. The first ever first party wireless controller - look to Nintendo!

    Nintendo know that the market's stale. Why, even in Japan, market revenues are slipping. And companies like Microsoft aren't doing a thing to revive it just by getting newwer graphics. If the old games didn't work, why would sequals with essentially the same gameplay - but a new makeover - work any better?

    You wont realise Nintendo until it's gone.


    And just out of curiousity, who says that adults don't play Nintendo games. You'd be surprised how many do. The last time I went to a card game tournament 2 other people in their high teens (or older) had DSs. And we had a heck of a time playing Super Mario 64 DS, much more so than I've experienced playing GTA.
    Edited by 1 at 01/06/05 @ 21:02

  • skybluesam86 #69 7 years ago

    So you're telling me that Nintendo has as
    much cash as Sony and Microsoft?

    As a matter of fact, they do. If you compare like for like, ie, gaming for gaming, Nintendo are the healthiest.

    It's just that MS and Sony both have huge reserves to dip into eleswhere, should it all go a bit wrong.
    Nintendo have to concentrate on making sure the games keep them going.

  • spazmo #70 7 years ago

    If Nintendo made games for PS3 and XBox but just developed generic shooters and racers you would soon hear everyone crying out for Mario and Zelda and more Nintendo-like games!

    Nintendo make their own style of games. Lots of people love those games. Why do people want to see them "get in line" with Sony and Microsoft?

  • gerg #71 7 years ago

    The Gamcube is not underpowered. It has, in fact, the graphics level of the PS2. Just so you know.

  • Ace_McCloud #72 7 years ago

    Xiphos: "Mario Kart on GC is a shitty game"... Although I'd like to turn the other cheek, I just can't believe you're saying it. I've played alot of games and in multiplayer I've played this more than any other game ever: the depth is unbelievable, playing against equally good people, dodging a blue shell to win a race is just awesome... problem is you need to put in alot of play time to discover the depth. Dont sell it short because it didnt redefine the franchise, it just refined it, and in my opinion did an awesome job...

    And DK mountain the 'one great track'? you enjoy the track with the huge gimmick? come on man...
    Edited by 1 at 01/06/05 @ 21:47

  • captain-future #73 7 years ago

    Vin: Yeah, Kutaragi's good at rhetoric.
    He's a fucking legend at it.

    maybe so and I QUOTE from South Park's Chinpoko Mon Episode (3x10):


    Hirohito: Oh! You must have very big penis!

    Owner: Excuse me?! I was just asking you what you're up to with these toys!

    Hirohito: Nothing! We are very simple people with very small penis! Mr. Hosek's penis is especially small!

    Hosek: He he he! So small!


    http://www.southpark.dsl.pipex.com/scripts/scr310.shtml

    ----

    and BTW: GameCube is graphically at least equal if not slightly superior to PS2.

  • Lothar Hex #74 7 years ago

    I call bullshit on everyone.

  • Gareth.de #75 7 years ago

    and BTW: GameCube is graphically at least
    equal if not slightly superior to PS2.

    No. It's easier to get results on the GC, but with some dedication and some extra hours, the most technically impressive results are obtained on the PS2. This is a fact, as quoted from various cross-platform game developers.

  • Gareth.de #76 7 years ago

    So, you want a future where all that gets
    published are Driver 900s and GTA: Pencil Towns????

    Personally I couldn't give a fuck mate. At the end of the day no matter how unique your games are, if you don't sell them you don't make money and your company folds - fact. These facts are oh-so-simple to those of us who do not have a Nintendo flag rammed up our arse. I've already said that I have a Gamecube and that I'm not here to attack Nintendo, so why bother giving me this shit? Can't you read? Driver and GTA are produced because they make money. Maybe in a couple of thousand years when our economies work differently and there is no such thing as currency and everything is done simply for the good of mankind, there will be a place for Nintendo. As it is, companies have to make money. They have to bring in more than they are spending. This notion is called 'proffit'. Without it, a company will fold, no matter how many fanboys it has.

    This is a fact and there's absolutely fuck all you or anyone else can do about it.

    When will you dull fucker Nintendo fanboys realise that the market doesn't give a shit about who makes the most fun games or who has the cutest characters. If you don't give the market what it wants then they won't buy your stuff. It really is as simple as that. Coming on here and spamming these forums about how innovative/fun/different Nintendo is will count for fuck all when Nintendo's market share falls below 10%.

    Nintendo make their own style of games. Lots of people
    love those games. Why do people want to see them "get in
    line" with Sony and Microsoft?

    Because MS and Sony's market share is rising, and Nintendo's is falling. Do the math.

    It's just that MS and Sony both have
    huge reserves to dip into eleswhere, should it all go a bit
    wrong.

    Exactly. Next?

  • justMe #77 7 years ago

    "I've already said that I have a Gamecube and that I'm not here to attack Nintendo"

    Either you are lying and you don't really own a GCN or you have a problem with your eyes.

    "the most technically impressive results are obtained on the PS2"

    Here is a fact for you: everytime I play some games on a friends PS2 I wonder how people are still buying that kind of outdated hardware for such a price. Every single Nintendo game (yes, the marios, zeldas, pokemons, etc) looks better than your "technically impressive results".

    Please stop regurgitating your anti-nintendo bulshit, or at least try to learn how to do it in a polite and intelligent way. Oh, and when you go the the doctor to see about the eye problem, ask him if he can explain your anal fixation, and those dreams you've been having about nintendo flags...

  • Gareth.de #78 7 years ago

    Either you are lying and you don't really own a GCN or you have a problem with your eyes.

    Following your professional advice I checked to see if I did indeed have a Gamecube and yes, I can confirm that I do. My eyes must be fine because by definition, to see a Gamecube there then they must be working. Thank you for your concern though, mother.

    Here is a fact for you:
    everytime I play some games on a friends PS2 I wonder how people are still buying that kind of outdated hardware for such a price.

    I've never been able to understand why anyone would want to buy one of those rancid pieces of equipment at any price to be honest, but I guess the Sony marketing department deserves their Christmas bonuses. Despite the fact that you have a personal dislike for your friend's PS2, what the games developers - people in the real world if you follow - say is that the results are indeed more impressive on the PS2 if you are willing to put in the extra effort. I suggest you try a search on google before you come here and spout your irrelevant, trivial opinions and expect them to take precidence over solid fact.

    Every single Nintendo game (yes, the marios, zeldas, pokemons, etc) looks better than your "technically impressive results".

    I don't remember stating any examples... enlighten me with your infinite wisdom, if you would be so kind?

    My anal fixation comes from observing that every Nintend fanboy uses this part of their body to speak. It's rather intriguing, don't you think?

  • dk_rare #79 7 years ago

    "Well apparently the Revolution shown was
    an empty box with a light in it."

    Sorry gerg, you just made that up, IGN have already confirmed, touched and poked at the revolution prototype.

  • dk_rare #80 7 years ago

    "My anal
    fixation comes from observing that every Nintend fanboy uses
    this part of their body to speak. It's rather intriguing,
    don't you think?"

    Yup, that pretty much sums up the sony argument. When you get beaten fair and square, make personal attacks, and maybe people will forget that Sony really arn't that good

  • BartonFink #81 7 years ago

    Kutaragi, meanwhile, said that using Blu-Ray was an attempt to spur on sales of Blu-Ray compatible devices.Roughly translated as "Jeybus please no not another Betmax!" or "We can't afford another Betamax"

  • Shadar #82 7 years ago

    I love to see people talk about things they obviously know nothing about.

    And to make it all worse, it's a fanboy discussion. Now, let's see ... videogames need to earn money, and the only way they can do that is by appealing to the nearly saturated gamer market? I don't think the PS3 will sell 100 million units, while x360 sells 50 million and Revo sells 30 million. Why not? Because the market isn't big enough! There aren't 180 million potential purchasers out there! If there were, you could bet your ass DRIV3R would sell more than 4.5 million copies. If there was truly a market out there the size of the potential PS2 market, we'd be seeing games selling 20 million copies, not getting by on 1.5 to 2 million.

    "Power should always precede innovation"

    Well, only if you don't want to expand your market share, fellas! Sony and MS are really just making consoles for the established market, and trying to eat into each other's shares of it. Nintendo, on the other hand, is trying to expand into what the press calls a "niche". Well, that niche is the actual global consumer electronics and entertainment market! Most people don't play games because they don't see what's so great about them! They want experiences they can relate to and understand. That's why they want a dog on their DS. Not because the dog is a fucking revolution, but because it covers a need. That dog is fun to play with. That dog is easily understandable and accessible. Sam Fisher and whassisname Tanner sure as hell aren't accessible. They appeal to gamers, no-one else.

    Sure, Sony have tried and to a certain extent succeeded. They've sold a few million EyeToys and given wannabe-Pop Idol contestants a new toy. Someone wants to play games, actual GAMES as in playing with TOYS, on their TV, and EyeToy gives them just that. Maybe they want to play karaoke. SingStar gives them that. Accessible fun. They cover needs and provide fun that most people can relate to. Most people don't want to be secret agents. They just want to play.

    I think that's where the market lies. In appealing to a mass market that couldn't give two tugs of a dead dog's cock about what we call traditional gaming experiences. That market won't grow all that much. It's the interactive entertainment market that will grow. Far more than the online market MS envisions. Are there really 50 million people out there who wants to play games online? Then why aren't they doing it already!? I think MS particularly works in the wrong direction. A fraction of all Xbox owners play on Live. Why? Maybe because the vast majority simply doesn't want to!

    Nintendo, for all their faults, tries to embrace a greater market than what we see today. They wish to redefine the interactive experience, it seems. Baby steps were taken with the DS. A new way of appealing to people who find joypads exceedingly complicated. That's a start. Now, I don't know what the Revolution has in store, but I would think it's something that makes playing games easier, simpler, you know ... more fun for someone who hasn't been trained to understand button layouts of twelve similar little circles. And I think that's where the future lies. Not with us, not with the crowd who revel in traditional game design. There are hardly 100 millions of us. That's because the mass market doesn't care. The mass market is our fathers, our mothers, our little sisters. People who don't give a shit about video games right now because they don't appeal to them.

    Increasing that appeal should be the foremost concern of the platform holders, not tailoring it to the needs of a marginalized market that isn't set to grow, but rather diminish, as we all see that we're really just flogging the same dead horse over and over and over.

    Am I wrong, anyone? Or are you just approaching the problem from the wrong angle? Most people don't care about tech specs. My parents and my little sisters and the guys next door sure as hell don't. They just want something fun to play with. Something they understand that's not the result of 20 years of anally retentive refining of the same concepts over and over again until no-one but the initiated, the hard-core elite, a dying species, gets the idea and enjoys it.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 02:35

  • brombeer #83 7 years ago

    Funny..the discussion starts off by bashing the high ranking adults of Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo as being childish...but look what happens to you all...exactely! I own a PS2 (with which I'm still satisfied), you own an Xbox or a GC..so what?! We PLAY games, who cares on which system it runs, which pixel looks slightly better (often it is not the console but the quality of the TV which glorifies or destroys the graphics). I just want to play games. Stop this fanboyism please!
    Edited by 2 at 02/06/05 @ 05:22

  • Umbala #84 7 years ago

    gerg
    Look,
    you even say it yourself, Nintendo publishes unique games.
    Why, a game which you can play with electronic bongo drums -
    has it been seen on the PS2 - no???

    As much as that's a nice addition, you should know that the people who did Donkey Konga, are the people behind the game Taiko no Tatsujin (htt p://nicus.club.fr/Jeux/Images/PS2/Tam_Im1b.jpg), or as the people in the 'States would prefer, Taiko Drum Master. The controller was the only "new thing" with the microphone, since Taiko no Tatsujin's controller is either to hit on one drum in the center, the rims.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 07:12

  • Genji #85 7 years ago

    Brombeer, you're my heeeeeero.
    It's fun to watch people fight over completely trivial bullshit, however, so I will use this post to categorically and objectively PROVE that Nintendo is, in fact, the best.
    OK, here's the proof. It's right over... there!

    /runs away

  • gerg #86 7 years ago

    THANK YOU SO MUCH SHADAR....

    You finally cleared it all up. Now I know that I don't have to reply to this crappy Anti-Nintendo fanboyism anymore...

  • Roamer #87 7 years ago

    Thought I'd pop in to make a few points;

    Nintendo has huge cash reserves. They could compete head-on with Sony and MS if they so desired, for a few generations, at least.

    Many of you are saying that it's the GTA's that bring in the moolah, but Nintendo is still a hugely profitable business, probably mainly due to their pragmatic business plan.

    The Gamecube is not a underpowered console, despite some lackluster 3rd party ports. Look to the Resident Evils, Zeldas and Metroids, if you will. The difference between this gen of consoles are slight anyway :)

    I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels gaming has grown a bit stale in recent years, with the exception of games like God of War and Resident Evil 4. I believe Nintendo deserves some credit for going down a different path, bearing in mind that we have no idea what kind of path this is.

    The revolution? It could be a fluffy Pikachu-doll that you have to punch, slap or cuddle to play games - we simply don't know. Neither do we know anything about the hardware capabilities. At least it doesn't have interchangable covers as one of its major selling points, eh? (a cheap shot, I know)

  • Gareth.de #88 7 years ago

    Increasing that appeal should be the foremost concern of the platform holders, not tailoring it to the needs of a marginalized market that isn't set to grow, but rather diminish

    Are you talking about the same games industry that is inceasing in revenue by at least 5% every year?

    http://www.dfcint.com/game_article/aug04article.html

    // Fails to see the games industry slowing down

    Seriously, I wonder if some of you guys live in outer Mongolia somewhere because your views on the world and of the market are so fucked up. You distort and even invent facts to suit and justify your support of the stupid direction Nintendo is taking with their business. They didn't go online with the GC as they said no-one wanted it. Millions of people play online on the other consoles so what do they do? Give the Revolution online capability - a whole generation late. Now they're saying they're going to deliver an under-powered console that plays 20 year old games for simpletons, cos that's what the people want! In 5 years time after they have lost a whole shitload of cash, it will be great to watch them eat these words. Where will you fanboys be then I wonder? Please make sure you come back here.

    As for Nintendo making a console that's fun to use instead of powerful, I guess if you're a Mac user then you love this kind of thing. Low power but simple to use with a single mouse button - a simpleton's dream! And does this revolutionise the computer market and throw Apple into the mainstream? No. They operate in a niche of designers and other non-techies who would rather bang on about innovative design and ease-of-use than real performance. Who gives a fuck what it looks like if it takes twice as long to get stuff done on it?

    When you get beaten fair and square...

    Oh how I laughed... and exactly where was I beaten fair and square? When a Nintendo fanboy told me Pikachu really is going to save Nintendo? LOL. Do me a favour.

    (often it is not the console but the quality of the TV which glorifies or destroys the graphics).

    That's funny - I thought it was polygons, effects and frame-rate. So all we need to do for better graphics is not buy a PS3 or an Xbox 360, but simply get better TVs!!!! Hurrah!

    And for the last time, will mongs like gerg stop insisting that I'm being anti-Nintendo here? I couldn't give a fuck about Nintendo for the 4th time - READ - if MS was taking their direction, or if Sony was doing it or anyone else who is stupid enough then I'd be criticising them in the same way. The Nintendo name is irrelevant. Get it through your head.

    You know what? Fuck it. Someone tries to speak some sense and be realistic and they're branded an Anti-Nintendo fanboy. I hope Nintendo does well and is still here in 30 years, but at their current direction they won't be. And morons like these Nintendo fanboys are making that idea seem very sweet indeed.

  • terminalterror #89 7 years ago

    "Well apparently the Revolution shown was an empty box with
    a light in it."

    Sorry gerg, you just made that up, IGN have already confirmed, touched and poked at the revolution prototype.


    They touched and poked an empty box with a light on the front, and some weights on the inside. Somebody (I forget who) tried to put a DVD into it to see it suck it in, only for it to simply fall inside the empty box.

  • MoFo #90 7 years ago

    and Halo 3 in the spring of 2006, I'd say they've got a good chance.

    Honestly now what's the big deal about Halo? I play console and PC games. Anything Halo can do has been done a hundred times before on a PC and much better.

    If I buy a console it's to play games that are easier and more enjoyable to play on a console than on a PC. Halo just doesn't sit in that category. If Halo is meant as the big killer game for XBOX 360 then I guess I'll be holding off on buying an XBOX again in this round of the console war.

  • Ace_McCloud #91 7 years ago

    Re: Shadar and the market wont expand... I know thats not the exact words but its the gist... eh? Seriously? You cant seriously think that Sony and Microsoft have got it wrong by predicting that the videogames market will keep expanding? Perhaps your mum, dad, little sister, next door neighbour etc cant handle a control pad. I'm sure the big boys aren't bothered. What I'm sure Sony and MS are bothered about is the fact that your kids probably will be able to, and their kids and so on. They're planning for the future. I'm no expert on Nintendo's plans, but by the sounds of your post they're trying to expand the current market by making it more appealing to your average joe, and power to them. But to say that Sony and MS have got it wrong by appealling to the 'elite' is ridiculous. Because not everybody plays games now doesnt mean to say they wont - wi-fi wasnt too popular back in 1999 when it came out, but look at it now. Not a perfect example but you get the idea - the more realistic the graphics become the more accepting Joe public will become of the games, once developers become unrestricted by the constraints of developing I wouldnt be surprised if games were viewed upon like films, and critically assessed as such
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 10:58

  • skybluesam86 #92 7 years ago

    They have to bring
    in more than they are spending. This notion is called
    'proffit'. Without it, a company will fold, no matter how
    many fanboys it has.

    No, it's called 'profit'.

    And yes, without it, Nintendo would fold. However, they are easily as profitable, and often moreso than either MS or Sony are from the gaming divisions.
    If you'd bothered to read earlier, you would know that MS and Sony both have lots of money coming in from other areas, but their gaming divisions are relatively weak. However, they know a failure in that area isn't going to put the company out of business. With Nintendo it is, so can you blame them for sticking to what they know works and sells, whilst also trying something a bit different.

  • gerg #93 7 years ago

    graeth.de: You're not being anti-Nintendo???? Hah!!! Here are some of your exact words... I quote your exact words:

    ''You distort and even invent
    facts to suit and justify your support of the stupid
    direction Nintendo is taking with their business''

    And even if that's the only case, I see what you're against. You're against intriguing ideas which do soemthing new, something different. You're afraid of it - you're afraid that the new and the not tried will crash the video game market. So, I give you these words: embrace it.

  • skybluesam86 #94 7 years ago

    They didn't go online with the GC as they said no-one wanted it.

    That is a blatant lie. What they said was that they didn't want to jump in, they wanted to test the water.
    I've no doubt that a huge part of R&D for the Revolution focused on accesible, simple online play. Once Nintendo do something, they generally do it very well.

    I, for one, certainly wouldn't touch Live! with a bargepole, simply because I don't want to be tied down to a subscription. If I play online, I'll do it whenever I want, and pay solely for that if necessary. I won't pay for months and months that it doesn't get used.
    For all that Live! is a good service, personally I feel that it's business model is screwy. It doesn't support the average Joe.

  • Gareth.de #95 7 years ago

    Sorry, I forgot there are pedantic people on here with fuck all better to do.

    So when the gaming public walks into Game/HMV/Virgin and sees 3 consoles; two of them playing games with the technical prowess of the tech demos witnessed at E3, and one of them playing Super Mario world and other games from 20 years ago, which one are they going to buy you dull fucker? So you think an innovative new controller is going to shift Revolutions? Ah yes I can see it now:

    Jo Public:
    Well I can either get the latest and greatest in technology and play all of my games online against my friends, or I can buy a console with a fraction of the power, ancient games, but has a magic wand for a control pad just in case I'm too much of a mong to be able to use a control pad.

    Yes, I guess you've all been right all along and the Revolution will be everyone's choice.

    Long live the Nintendo fanboy.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 11:22

  • Gareth.de #96 7 years ago

    I,
    for one, certainly wouldn't touch Live! with a bargepole,
    simply because I don't want to be tied down to a
    subscription. If I play online, I'll do it whenever I want,
    and pay solely for that if necessary.

    A shame you didn't read about MS's plans to expand Live to do just as you want then isn't it? Then you could have avoided making a complete tool of yourself.

  • Gareth.de #97 7 years ago

    And even if that's the only
    case, I see what you're against. You're against intriguing
    ideas which do soemthing new, something different. You're
    afraid of it - you're afraid that the new and the not tried
    will crash the video game market. So, I give you these
    words: embrace it.

    Fuck sakes, are you American or something? How many times must someone state something before you understand it? I'm not against innovation if it is successful, but when it's signing your own death warrant because it will only appeal to a smaller and smaller percentage of the public then no, I don't agree with it.

    Perhaps this whole argument can be settled like this - lets all divide into 2 groups and live happily ever after. Those who think a business should do what it takes to survive go to one side, and those who think a business should completely ignore what the majority want and tattoo 'innovation over power' on their arses go to the other.

    Ok? Now everyone can be happy.

  • skybluesam86 #98 7 years ago

    I, for one, certainly wouldn't touch Live! with a bargepole,
    simply because I don't want to be tied down to a
    subscription. If I play online, I'll do it whenever I want,
    and pay solely for that if necessary.

    A shame
    you didn't read about MS's plans to expand Live to do just
    as you want then isn't it? Then you could have avoided
    making a complete tool of yourself.

    No, I've read the plans.
    So essentially, they've admitted they got it wrong first time round, or at least to some extent.
    Now, maybe with a bit more R&D they wouldn't have made this mistake in the first place...

    EDIT: Why are comments broken?!
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 11:22

  • Gareth.de #99 7 years ago

    No, I've read the plans. So essentially, they've admitted they got it wrong first time round, or at least to some extent. Now, maybe with a bit more R&D they wouldn't have made this mistake in the first place...

    1. Offering a service that you personally don't like is not "wrong".
    2. Did I ever say they didn't make mistakes? Of course they did - everyone does. The console was too big, too ugly, and too 'American'. To their credit though it was their first forray into the console world and they did a good job at getting to number 2. With all the years Nintendo has under its belt it should have done better no?
    3. Since when the fuck does the success of Live have anything to do with whether or not Nintendo is doing the right thing with Revolution? I think you're just clutching at straws now. Eveyone knows MS has made mistakes, but that isn't the issue. Trying to divert attention from the fact that Nintendo is going to lose even more market share in the next generation is pretty lame to be honest.

  • gerg #100 7 years ago

    Look, gareth.de, the thing is: INNOVATION IS WORKING FOR NINTENDO. The facts are there. Nintendo makes as much money, if not more than Sony in the gaming department (Microsoft loses millions). Thus, Nintendo's charm must be working.

    Also, the reason going on the internet only now with the revolution and DS is a good thing is because Nintendo wanted to see how much of an effect it has. And it didn't have much. I think its been reported that less than 20% of the Microsoft gaming community use Live, so I think Nintendo were somewhat smart in waiting. But now that technology has improved, they can do it for cheaper and make it finacially viable.
    But Nintendo have acknwoledged that they missed the boat. Everyone makes mistakes.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 11:34

  • Tonka #101 7 years ago

    A shame you didn't read about MS's plans to expand Live to do just
    as you want then isn't it?

    I thought the buddylistings and messaging would be free. As soon as you wanted to play you had to pay. Now, I'm well aware that I might have got this wrong so this post is in no way an assault (don't call me a buttfucking moron please) I just want to know if anyone has hard facts on the matter.

  • skybluesam86 #102 7 years ago

    Couldn't have put it better myself, gerg.

  • gerg #103 7 years ago

    Thanks Sky Blue Sam. More support is always good.

  • Gareth.de #104 7 years ago

    Look, gareth.de, the thing is: INNOVATION IS WORKING FOR
    NINTENDO. The facts are there.

    So you mean they actually PLANNED to lose market share in this generation and everything is going the way they want it to? I see! Thanks for enlightening me. I guess it was their plan for the Virtual Boy to flop like a limp cock too right? Gotcha.

    Nintendo makes as much money, if not more than Sony in the gaming department (Microsoft loses millions).

    How exactly? They're a poor number 3 everywhere except for Japan. Show me some figures (and some links to support them so we know they're true please).

    I think its been reported that less than 20% of the Microsoft gaming community use Live

    20% of a few million is a lot in case you hadn't worked that out.

  • skybluesam86 #105 7 years ago

    20% of a few million is a lot in case you hadn't worked that out.

    Well done, it is a lot. Only in real terms.

    Relatively speaking it still puts online gaming in quite a niche.

  • Gareth.de #106 7 years ago

    Jesus guys, get a room or something.

  • Gareth.de #107 7 years ago

    Relatively speaking it still puts online gaming in quite a niche.

    But sadly a bigger niche than Nintendo can hope to open up with some swanky new form of joypad for morons who think the current ones are too complicated.

    When their customers are people like you lot though, I can honestly see where they get the idea to simplify things.

  • gerg #108 7 years ago

    Although they may have lost market share, their profits have doubled. Many things need to be taken into account when working out who 'won' or 'lost'.

    Here's the site that tells you how much money companies have earned in the last financial year:

    http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php

    And although 20% of a few million isn't the smallest figure ever, it shows taht the other 80% weren't interested. And 80% is four times bigger than the 20% (which I personally thought was more around 12). So, basically, all I'm saying is this: Microsoft probably put forth a LOT of money to support Live. Now, they may have only appealed to 20% and lost money on it, but they could afford it due to there other departments. They could afford to get their gamers just intrigued. Now, Nintendo can't do that and lose so much money becuase they are purely a games company. So, they sat back and waited for the higher ground to float by.

  • Gareth.de #109 7 years ago

    Although they may have lost market share, their profits have doubled.

    Double a small number isn't a very big number though is it? ;)

    http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php

    LOL. How about a site that isn't going to be biased? An independent one. Offering that link is like that Dan guy offering the http://www.xbox360 link that contained information on how the 360 was better than the PS3. Give me a break.

    And although 20% of a few million isn't the smallest figure ever, it shows taht the other 80% weren't interested.

    Or they lived in areas where there just isn't any broadband support. I live in a rural area of the Uk that is only getting broadband at the end of this month, and as soon as it arrives I and another 4 Xbox-owning friends will be on Live. I'll also be using my Dreamcast broadband adaptor to play online on that. I'm not going to bother getting the GC one as only 3 or so games are supported. How's that for niche?

    Microsoft probably put forth a LOT of money to support Live.

    Yes they did, but now they have an infrastucture in place ready for a market that you yourself have said is only going to increase in the future as means get more affordable. Sony has no online service. Throwing a modem at someone and telling them to get online is not a service, and to offer anything like Live is going to cost them shitloads.

    but they could afford it due to there other departments.

    Yes and? Everyone does this - BT subsidises its broadband side of the business with other parts of the company. The fact that even then it offers a shit service is beside the point.

    Now, Nintendo can't do that and lose so much money becuase they are purely a games company.

    EXACTLY. They just don't have the cash to do this kind of thing and *have* to appeal to more and more people. Alienating us and insulting our intelligence with 1-button joypads is not going to impress the public. It will impress your grandmother who still hasn't worked out how to program the VCR maybe, but do you seriously think she's going to take up gaming simply because her pad has less buttons? Or maybe you think it will be because Pikachu is on her TV? Just like in the days of the N64? Or just like now with the GC? What? Continuously falling market share you say?

  • Tonka #110 7 years ago

    Alienating us and insulting our intelligence with 1-button joypads is not going to impress the public

    Objection! That is purely speculation.

    /practising for Phoenix Wright

  • gerg #111 7 years ago

    But, as shown, their doubling of their profits has earned them more money. And what do you mean they've lost market share? In Japan, they own 90% of the handheld market. Quite a lot, eh?

    (i) Or they lived in areas where there just isn't any broadband support. (/i)

    Which is why Ninetndo did not do an internet service. They knew people like you, without a broadband internet connection, would not be able to go online. Thus, spending millions on an internet service which would not be thouroughly used would be finacially unviable.

    But although Nintendo doens't have other subsidaries to fall back on, they don't need to. Microsoft may be succesful in market share, but there loss is appaling. Nintendo may not have reserves, and as much money in the whole (which I may admit to), but the thing is they don't have to. They can support themselves and thus are successful. Hypothetically, if Microsofts computing department and Windows range fell through, you'd see X-boxs going for £50.
    Edited by 2 at 02/06/05 @ 12:26

  • gerg #112 7 years ago

    Look, at the moment I can't find any independant financial reports. Maybe you could find them yourself and prove me wrong?? otherwise, it's word against word...

  • spazmo #113 7 years ago

    Gareth.de, you do realise Nintendo have more than 1 console don't you? How do they make money? Look at the sales of GBA,DS and GC combined. It's not hard to understand you know. For someone who doesn't care, you really have a bee in your bonnet about Nintendo. I think the world would be a dull place if everyone copied the most popular thing. I'm sure Apple are'nt going to change their OS to be more Windows-like in order to gain more market share.

  • Gareth.de #114 7 years ago

    In Japan, they own 90% of the handheld market. Quite a lot, eh?

    Japan is a single country, and isn't the handheld market one of those other areas you were talking about earlier? Or I guess it's another area if Sony or MS is concerned, but all part of the same thing with Nintendo yea? What? Double standards?

    Look, by your defensive stance you must be really insecure about all of this. I've said more times than I can remember that I am not here to bash Nintendo. I have a GC, and I bought it after the Dreamcast and after the Xbox. Why? To play the class A games that are only on that console - Viewtiful Joe, Eternal Darkness, Star Wars Rogue Leader, Super Monkeyball (though now coming to other consoles), F-Zero etc. I really am not here to bash Nintendo at all - why is this beyond your understanding? From what height did your mother drop you as a baby?

    I am saying that Nintendo's choice to try and simplify gaming and make it cute and cuddly is going to put off more people than it's going to attract. The fact that their market share has been falling year on year since the PS1 came out confirms this, and at the current rate it's just a matter of time before the graph hits a 0.

    No amount of N-arselicking is going to reverse that - only a change in their attitude will. The way you keep banging on about MS seems that you think I'm flying the MS flag. I'm not. They have done a lot of things right and credit where it's due. Nintendo happen to be doing things wrongly, and this is reflected in the number of people who are choosing not to buy their stuff.

    Which is why Ninetndo did not do an internet service. They knew people like you, without a broadband internet connection, would not be able to go online.

    That's bollocks. Practically everyone has a phone so dial-up would have worked fine had they supported it. It worked fine on the Dreamcast while it was actually supported by Sega.

    For someone who doesn't care, you really have a bee
    in your bonnet about Nintendo.

    Not at all. Had moronic fanboys been able to accept my point that Nintendo needs to change things in order to obtain more market share then my first post would have been the only one. I do not enjoy having to repeat myself a dozen times before a simple notion sinks through dull people's skulls. The reason I am having to bang on about this so much is not because I have a bee in my bonnet at all - it's because dull fucker fanboys will argue until they're blue in the face about complete bollocks. The facts are all there to see - if a product is deemed good by the public then they will buy it. If they prefer something else then they will buy something else. Market share on the graph is a downward gradient and it doesn't take a fucking scientist to work out that it has to at least level out if not start going back up again.

    Look, at the moment I can't find any independant financial
    reports. Maybe you could find them yourself and prove me
    wrong?? otherwise, it's word against word...

    Well, my word plus the common knowledge that MS and Sony have far more financial resources than Nintendo to spend on their consoles and marketing, not to mention the endless statistics on falling market share for the big N.

    For fuck sakes, MS could afford to buy Nintendo if it wanted to - there is simply no competition in the budgets of the two.

    But yea, you do have your word. Feels good doesn't it?
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 13:13

  • Gareth.de #115 7 years ago

    I'm
    sure Apple are'nt going to change their OS to be more
    Windows-like in order to gain more market share.

    No, but they are releasing a mouse with 2 buttons soon, as reported on slashdot. Why the fuck would they be doing that then eh?

    Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

  • gerg #116 7 years ago

    Look, just read this article and post your reply:

    http://www.buzzcut.com/article.php?story=20050531223422 47

    The bottom line is that Nintendo ARE making money. They're working, and doing well, no matter how much money they have.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 13:17

  • Genji #117 7 years ago

    Wow. Some of these posts are appraoching essay length. Why can't we all just agree that Nintendo is the best?

  • Gareth.de #118 7 years ago

    Short, sharp posts - great! I've had enough of typing lots too.

    So tell me, which console is Jo Public going to buy when they walk into HMV/GAME? One that plays games like the tech demos at E3, or one that plays 20 year old NES games and Pikachu?

    ANSWER ME.

    Whether you like the answer or not (you don't of course), it's obvious. Whether you agree with it or not (again, you don't), Jo Public is a very fickle person and will buy the one that *looks* most impressive. Yes you will have hardcore N-arselickers like yourself who would buy a bucket of shit if it had Nintendo written on it, but there simply aren't enough of you to sustain a games company. They need to broaden their appeal, not reduce it. Some people will buy a PS3/Xbox 360 *and* a Revolution, or maybe all 3, but to use your favourite word again - those people are a niche. Most will buy one.

    So come on, answer me - which will they buy? Quake 4 or Pikachu? Mario golf or Need for Speed? A machine that can double up as a multimedia machine or a machine with a controller designed for mongs?

    ANSWER ME.

    And yes it *is* underpowered. Moore's law says that computing power should double every 18 months. Since the life of a console is roughly 5 years, let's say that there are 3 x 18 months in 5 years (that will actually bring it to 4.5 years). The GC's power should therefore have doubled 3 times - giving 8 times the power of the Cube. And what does Revolution have? 2/3 times the power, that's what. So it doesn't even reach the value that natural progression would have it reach. Underpowered.
    Edited by 2 at 02/06/05 @ 13:27

  • AndyE #119 7 years ago

    The problem with Nintendo targeting non-gamers is that non-gamers are not going to spend £100+ for a DS and a game and are unlikely to buy games at £30 each anywhere near as regularly as an actual gamer. On the net there is a lot of "My non-gaming family played my DS and liked it!" but I haven't seen any "My family who don't like regular games played my DS and liked it so much they bought their own!". The Average Joe certainly won't spend £200 on a Nintendo Revolution because it has some new controller.

  • Gareth.de #120 7 years ago

    Thank God - someone else with common sense. Welcome to Nintendo fanboy land, Andy.

  • skybluesam86 #121 7 years ago

    I think Nintendo are quite happy to be most people's "second console" this time round though.

    Imagine the market split roughly 50-50 between PS3 and 360, and then a Revolution sitting next to, say, 80% of these (as an exaggeration).
    That's going to do Nintendo no harm whatsoever.

    They seem quite content to let MS and Sony do the competing now, and they'll just tuck in.

  • Gareth.de #122 7 years ago

    Imagine the market split roughly 50-50 between PS3 and 360, and then a Revolution sitting next to, say, 80% of these (as an exaggeration).

    Yep, that's one hell of an exaggeration alright. Nowhere near that many people will buy multiple consoles, especially one designed to be underpowered and insultingly over-simplified.

    Maybe they'll do well by selling to care homes and hospitals where people need that kind of stuff.

  • Gareth.de #123 7 years ago

    How can they do it? Well, here’ s a couple of strategies that would probably work.

    1. Launch a competitive, low cast product. If the Revolution turns out to be a $150 machine that generates graphics similar enough to the PS3 and the 360 that the layman can’t easily tell the difference, then Joe and Jane Casual Gamer will probably buy a Nintendo machine.

    With 2/3 times the power of GC while the others have about 30-40 times the power, they expect to see similar visuals? There's taking the piss but this is rediculous.

    2. Market to the core audience—fan boys and families. Whatever Sony and Microsoft do, they are going to have a hard time convincing mom or dad that their system is good for the kids. The kids will beg for a PS3 to play the latest blood-soaked adventure from Rockstar or to get their mitts on Halo for the 360. But parents are going to be happier buying junior a Nintendo machine with a Mario game. The fan boy angle is already in works with the announcement that the Revolution will play games from entire history of Nintendo in emulation.

    Anyone old enough to have pubes will be able to buy the console that they want, and not one that "mommy an daddy" see fit for them to use. Besides, kids are intelligent enough to know what they want. The days where they can be fobbed off by "Look son, this is a games machine too! Just like the PS3 only different. Cute ain't it?" have long gone. Kids these days demand what is seen to be the best - ask any parent.

    3. Produce a portable console. We know the Revolution will be small. But will it be small enough to haul around? If so, every kid in America will want a Revolution in their backpack. We’ve seen the 360. It’s a classy piece of hardware. But it’s a component for the home entertainment system. And if the PS3 is as powerful as people claim, it will probably be the size RD-D2. A portable console would be cool. And would sell.

    The PS3 is not as large as R2-D2, and wasn't the Cube supposed to be portable? Did that help sales? No? Ah.

    4. Don’t do anything special with the hardware, just keep producing triple AAA titles. If you want Mario, Metroid or Starfox, you’ll have to buy a Nintendo.

    Two or three triple A games a year (as we see from Nintendo) are not enough to appease the market. Ask anyone - the N64 just didn't have enough good exclusives. Neither does the Cube.

    I'm sorry, but it seems that when it comes to Nintendo, people forget about common sense and logic and focus solely on wishful thinking and hope.

    Personally I will be getting a 360 and maybe a Revolution. The 360 for the latest and greatest games, the media playing capacity and the online gaming, and the Revolution for the few triple A games that will only see the light of day on that console. To me, Sony are synonymous with "bullshit", "hype", "failure to deliver", and "fuck Europe" so I won't be getting anything with their badge on it.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 13:54

  • skybluesam86 #124 7 years ago

    I don't know where the idea has come from that it's underpowered and over-simplified.

    That seems like something you've decided on.

    Nintendo are notoriously honest about their specs, so if it appears underpowered, I would wait until we actually see something running on it. I dare say the differences will be minimal.

    As for oversimplified - that's utterly baseless. Pure conjecture on your part.
    No-one, other than people within Nintendo know what the 'revolution' is going to be. It could be a newer, simpler control interface, or it could be something completely different.

  • gerg #125 7 years ago

    Look, Joe Public will buy the most powerful, or the most aestetically pleasing (which, im view, this timne round is the Revolution), but Nintendo have survived two nassive blows to their reign. They're quite content with their position. And of course, then there's non-Joe Poublic, which Nintendo cater for.

    I just want Nintendo to survive.

  • skybluesam86 #126 7 years ago


    Two or three triple A
    games a year (as we see from Nintendo) are not enough to
    appease the market. Ask anyone - the N64 just didn't have
    enough good exclusives. Neither does the Cube.

    So other formats have more triple A titles than that a year do they?
    I think your definition of triple A is overly simple, if that's the case.
    The only genuinely brilliant titles of this gen have been Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Viewtiful Joe and the GTA games, imo.

    A console generation will be lucky to have more than 3 to 5 genuinely quality titles, never mind that many per year.

  • gerg #127 7 years ago

    Gareth.de: You're telling me the PS3 is 35 times more powerful than the PS2??? Hah! Naivity is fun to look at.

  • justMe #128 7 years ago

    Wow, still trolling around here Gareth.de?

    Here are some more hard facts for you:

    Nintendo, when compared to Sony/MS gaming divisions, is the only financially solid gaming company. They follow a plan based on actual figures and not on imaginary "future sales in the Billions". If we had a market crash (the probability is higher than you migh think), Nintendo would be the only one left. When people talk about Nintendo having loyal fans, most don't realise the value that represents. A brand name based on "coolness" (like the Playstation) is extremely volatile, it can become "uncool" overnight, and all the millions spent betting on the possible future will go down the drain. Nintendo's brand name, otoh, is based on a quality standard that very few companies can achieve. If you look behind the "kiddy" (how I hate that word, we are all (some of us grown up) kids playing games!) exterior of most Nintendo games, you find a touch of genious and a love for the game that only "mature" gamers can grasp.

    Now, please google some "hard facts" to contradict that.

    And btw, joe public will buy the game that society tells him is "cool" to have, until he gets enough gaming experience to form a personal oppinion/taste. After that he chooses for himelf. (and starts buying Nintendo, since Nintendo is the best ;))

  • abeit #129 7 years ago

    If Nintendo is underpowered compared to its rivals. The only they can keep there market share is by keeping there prices way down for example 75 pounds less than PS3 and Xbox 360.
    Their pricing strategy has seem to work with the DS. In japan it still manages to outsell the PSP.

    In addition they need to release their franchise i.e Mario and Zelda quickly before the others start dominating.

    Their expenditure will not be as high as Sony and Microsoft so again they may not caare TOO much about the market share as long as they dont make losses on the console.

    Their motto will be : Keep it cheap and theres no problem. I.E. DS

    While sony and Microsoft must have high sale to gain any profits. But thats not too say they will not.

    All I will say is GAME ON. May the best company WIN.

  • abeit #130 7 years ago

    If Nintendo is underpowered compared to its rivals. The only they can keep there market share is by keeping there prices way down for example 75 pounds less than PS3 and Xbox 360.
    Their pricing strategy has seem to work with the DS. In japan it still manages to outsell the PSP.

    In addition they need to release their franchise i.e Mario and Zelda quickly before the others start dominating.

    Their expenditure will not be as high as Sony and Microsoft so again they may not caare TOO much about the market share as long as they dont make losses on the console.

    Their motto will be : Keep it cheap and theres no problem. I.E. DS

    While sony and Microsoft must have high sale to gain any profits. But thats not too say they will not.

    All I will say is GAME ON. May the best company WIN.

  • Gareth.de #131 7 years ago

    As for
    oversimplified - that's utterly baseless. Pure conjecture on
    your part.
    No-one, other than people within Nintendo know
    what the 'revolution' is going to be. It could be a newer,
    simpler control interface, or it could be something
    completely different.

    How about you cut the crap? Nintendo are hardly going to try and go after mum, dad, sister and neighbour by introducing anything more complicated are they? Just stop being a moron for ONE FUCKING DAY please? Their line of games for the past decade has shown they want to try and attract non-gamers. The DS was released to try and attract more women to gaming - and look at it.

    They will be going for something simplified. Wake up.

    Nintendo are notoriously
    honest about their specs, so if it appears underpowered, I
    would wait until we actually see something running on it.

    Please see where they said it was about 2/3 times as powerful as the GC, then look up Moore's law. Come back after you have done these.

    At least gerg is finally starting to talk sense - he just wants to see the company survive. Don't we all? I wish Sega was still making machines too, having owned every single one of them. But the act is they sucked at making business decisions - hardware add-ons, rushed hardware design, lack of exclusives etc. all contributed to a lack of confidence and a mass exodus to the Sony camp. I am able to say this about Sega because I am being objective. If I wanted to wear m fanboy hat then I'd talk about how Sega shaped the way we play games today with its arcade games, innovation, Yu Suzuki, AM2, Sonic Team etc. but there is no point. They failed at what they wanted to do and I can easily say why - it's being OBJECTIVE.

    I want Nintendo to succeed too, as I've also had 4 of their consoles (SNES, N64, Gameboy and GC), but like fuck am I gonna sit here and try and say their business decisions are the best ones - cos they simply aren't.

    Gerg, for once you have posted something that I can relate to and agree with - thanks. There is no harm in taking off the Nintendo cape for a few seconds, as I hope you have now discovered.

  • Gareth.de #132 7 years ago

    Sky Blue Sam why can't you just take your head out of your arse for a second? Are you seriously telling me that there was no shortage in games on the N64 and GC?

    Is that what you are telling me? Yes or no please - for all to see.

  • gerg #133 7 years ago

    I just want to see NIntendo survive, because to be honest, they are the best. I know that one day, there prime will return, and beat Microsoft and Sony. You wont make an ally out of me for some time...

  • Gareth.de #134 7 years ago

    justMe - how about this for a fact? If market share is at 10% and continues to fall as it has been doing so for years, there simply is no way a company can survive once that market share falls below a certain level.

    I don't give a fuck how much you wank over Mario et al - it makes no difference to Nintendo's purse.

  • Gareth.de #135 7 years ago

    gerg - I care as much about having you as an 'ally' as I do about Geri Halliwell's next song, because this is an online discussion forum - not real life. I don't come here to make friends. I come here to read and to talk.

    But it was nice to see you post something that wasn't spawned from your innards.

  • gerg #136 7 years ago

    Nintendo WILL SURVIVE. Because the fans they appeal to will always be there. Nintendo has a small fanbase, but a strong one which will stay with them. And the DS does appeal to other people. Why, do you remember Nintendogs, or do you wish to not take notice of the fact that two colours and 1 game can sell more than the PSP???

  • Gareth.de #137 7 years ago

    I hope Bill Gates digs deep and buys Nintendo. Just the thought of the look on all your faces would keep me laughing for 6 months.

  • gerg #138 7 years ago

    But Gareth.de, I like Nintendo, and as much as you say you enjoy their games, I will not share your view that they are not as good as Sony or Microsoft.

  • gerg #139 7 years ago

    So you wish Bill Gates kills one of the most unique companies out there, like when they bought Rare.

  • mattigan #140 7 years ago

    Gareth.de I say again Did Nintendo show ANYTHING claimed to be running on
    the Revolution at E3?

    I don't think so, and its looking like Sony didn't either for that matter (running on the PS3 that is), by their own admission the hardware isn't complete yet. So please stop talking about who is better than who, it's childish.

    You seem to go on and on about "market share this market share that". Here's and idea why don't you wait and see what happens, who knows, you could be wrong (heaven forbid).

    And finally you critisize all the "fanboys" for having nothing better to do, yet it's you who's typing war and fucking peace every 5 minutes, practice what you preach, please.

    /raised flame sheild

  • skybluesam86 #141 7 years ago

    Please see
    where they said it was about 2/3 times as powerful as the
    GC,

    I have seen that. It was also accepted as a mistranslation at a later date.

    However, yes, I will admit there was a shortage of 3rd party games on N64 and Cube.
    I will not admit that there was a lack of quality games though. In my mind, there was more quality.
    It really doesn't bother me too much if I don't get to play the next Burnout, Driver, Need For Speed, etc
    They're all dull franchises.

  • Shadar #142 7 years ago

    And yes it
    *is* underpowered. Moore's law says that computing power
    should double every 18 months. Since the life of a console
    is roughly 5 years, let's say that there are 3 x 18 months
    in 5 years (that will actually bring it to 4.5 years). The
    GC's power should therefore have doubled 3 times - giving 8
    times the power of the Cube. And what does Revolution have?
    2/3 times the power, that's what. So it doesn't even reach
    the value that natural progression would have it reach.
    Underpowered.

    Wow! You're speaking like you ACTUALLY KNOW! Have you seen the tech specs for the Revo? Can you give me that inside source? Can you look me in the eye and tell me that the Revolution is three times more powerful than the Cube? No, you can't, because you're basing your argument off a comment from a Nintendo of America that has since been disproved. So you're clutching straws as much as those who are trying to claim the Live service is a fiasco. Of course, in relative terms, it's not a success. Financially, it's definitely not a success. But they got their foot in the door, and they're offering their Hoover at a very special price.

    So
    come on, answer me - which will they buy? Quake 4 or
    Pikachu? Mario golf or Need for Speed? A machine that can
    double up as a multimedia machine or a machine with a
    controller designed for mongs?

    Do you ... seriously ... think Nintendo will be displaying their 20 year old games as launch titles? If they're any clever, they'll show off a well-realized game world like Metroid, or perhaps a virtual arcade with 50 old titles running real-time on various machines. That should give Country Joe Motherfucker and the Dickcheese Posse some idea about power. Or perhaps they simply show off a next-gen Mario on launch? That would look good. Or perhaps some Zelda? Or the aforementioned Prime? Those are right about as exciting as MS' and Sony's launch offerings. Again: since we're dealing with hypothesis now, why shouldn't they be as exciting? Because you are underestimating Nintendo's output? Because you're simply basing your logic on the notion that Nintendo produces shit? Just because an argument is negative, it's not necessarily valid. Although you seem to think so.

    Now, shall I bother to write some more? And let me top off this by saying that I own two Xboxes, a GameCube, an imported PS2 and a DreamCast, all of which find active use. So I'm about as much a fanboy as your mother. So don't even try to pull that on me.

    Oh, and I can't help but notice that you're pulling "simplified user interface" from your reeking crack. Now, I don't say that I'm speaking for everybody, but I do make attempt to make a living from writing about games. So I play a lot of them. I find the ones that don't demand all that much of me to be the most entertaining. I find those with complexities BEYOND their control system to be the most interesting. Ever played Disgaea? That uses two buttons and an analogue stick. Yet it has way more depth than most of your twelve button crunchers such as God of War and Splinter Cell. Not that God of War isn't a great game ... it's fucking humongous, but I don't think you can defend your notion that fewer buttons means stupid gameplay. Actually, I really wonder where you got that idea from. Is a game good because it maps actions to many buttons? Is a fighting game good because it offers twelve different attacks rather than it's competitor's eight? Yeah, that's a bullshit argument. And so are yours.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 14:21

  • Gareth.de #143 7 years ago

    Did I say they were not as good? No. I said they are going down the wrong avenue with regards to which market they are trying to target.

    Quite how the fuck you could construde that to mean I'm saying Nintendo is in some way inferior, I'm not even going to attempt to guess. You're all in a world of your own.

  • gerg #144 7 years ago

    But the thing is, the market that Nintendo targets LOVES them. To me, I see no difference inbetween Microsoft or Sony, just how much power they say they can produce. Personally, Nintendo in my view is the only induvidual company out of the three.

  • Gareth.de #145 7 years ago

    Wow! You're
    speaking like you ACTUALLY KNOW! Have you seen the tech
    specs for the Revo? Can you give me that inside source?

    Hehehe, nice try. Sadly it is a fact that the machine will be underpowered because of these facts - Nintendo always takes cheap hardware that is nothing special and sticks it in a box to sell cheaply. Check out the link the fanboy posted above - it's all there. :) That's how they make their profit on hardware. So either the machine will be underpowered and they will sell it for less than the 360 and PS3 (which is like 95% certain) or they will go all-out and get equal-spec hardware and sell either at a hideous loss, or at a price range equal to the competition. Take your pick - either way you're fucked.

    Or perhaps they simply show off a next-gen Mario on launch?
    That would look good.

    Oh yea, *another* Mario game - fuckin awesome, man! Revolutionary!

    So don't even try to pull that on me.

    I only say it when it applies, so you're safe in that respect. Calling you a wanker instead would be possible though, but I won't since I'm such a nice guy. :)

    It really doesn't bother me too much if I don't
    get to play the next Burnout, Driver, Need For Speed,
    etc
    They're all dull franchises.

    I don't think the industry gives a fuck what you think to be honest - because, amazingly, they appreciate what the majority wants. Not what some fanboy wanks over at night.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 14:26

  • Gareth.de #146 7 years ago

    But the thing is, the market that Nintendo targets LOVES
    them. To me, I see no difference inbetween Microsoft or
    Sony, just how much power they say they can produce.
    Personally, Nintendo in my view is the only induvidual
    company out of the three.

    Awwww, that's sweet really. But sadly, once again I have to say that there simply aren't enough of you, and your numbers are falling every year as more and more of you buy from the competition. If you want to try and prop-up Nintendo by yourself in a few years then good luck to ya!

  • Shadar #147 7 years ago

    Oh, Gareth ... so appealing to the marginalized "gamer" is NOT GOING DOWN THE WRONG AVENUE!?

    Why do you think Driv3r, one of the best-selling games of last year, sold only 4 million copies in a market that's supposed to support 110 million customers? Huh? Perhaps because it didn't appeal to the remaining 106 million people, who wanted a different experience? Nintendo, on the other hand, managed to sell a cool 6 million copies of The Wind Waker to a customer base of less than 20 million. Wouldn't you say they actually cater to the broader market, then? Or do you have any arguments against that?

    Words against word, I know. I'm just saying that you're overestimating the market. I don't think the market really wants what we offer today. Otherwise, you'd be seeing a much more healthy growth in the sector. You'd be seeing games that sell 20 million copies. You'd be seeing must-have titles that everyone own. But none really are ... doesn't that mean that perhaps we don't appeal to all the people we could appeal to? Maybe Nintendo are trying to do that by "dumbing down" or "monging" their console? To unlock that massive, untapped market of people who think games are actually too complicated? I know there are a lot of those. You must see that too.

  • skybluesam86 #148 7 years ago

    I don't
    think the industry gives a fuck what you think to be honest
    - because, amazingly, they appreciate what the majority
    wants. Not what some fanboy wanks over at night.

    Precisely. That's why I'm glad Nintendo are off doing there own thing, catering for people like me.
    As long as this sort of market exists, so will Nintendo. They will only die if suddenly all everyone wants is half-baked franchise sequels to dull games. (Don't bring up Mario, Zelda, etc. as they are consitently brilliant, not uninspired)

  • Gareth.de #149 7 years ago

    Why do you think
    Driv3r, one of the best-selling games of last year, sold
    only 4 million copies in a market that's supposed to support
    110 million customers? Huh? Perhaps because it didn't appeal
    to the remaining 106 million people, who wanted a different
    experience? Nintendo, on the other hand, managed to sell a
    cool 6 million copies of The Wind Waker to a customer base
    of less than 20 million. Wouldn't you say they actually
    cater to the broader market, then? Or do you have any
    arguments against that?

    Hahaha, you're funny. First of all, Driv3r was really shite. I think the average review score was 30, maybe 50%. Compare that to Wind Waker which I guess had great reviews... and you are trying to compare the sales of these two? How about comparing top of the range games on all platforms to make it a little fairer? Considering how you are here writing on a games site that reviews games and influences purchase decisions with these said reviews, I find it bizarre and somewhat frightening that you could "forget" such a major detail as Driv3r being absolutely slated. As soon as I read the review I scratched it off my "to buy" list, as I'm sure did thousands of other people. The reviews were the same across the board.

    By your own reasoning then, the sales of a shit game on one system and one of the best on another system can be compared to decide which company has the better marketing strategy or appeal?

    Are you serious?

    Or perhaps I could compare the sales for GTA 3 on PS2 with any GC game and deduce that no-one wants the type of games Nintendo makes because the sales are lower?

    That was a really lame move on your part.

    How about Halo 2 which sold by the truckload for months? Maybe the fact that it sold more than Viewtiful Joe 2 means that the Cube is shit?

    By the way, please explain to me how this very website spotted the fact that Metroid 2 hardly broke the top 10 selling games charts. Does this mean Nintendo are doomed?

    // Is amazed

    Man, you're spouting even more drivel than Blue Sky or whatever the fuck his name is - quite a feat!
    Edited by 2 at 02/06/05 @ 14:45

  • Shadar #150 7 years ago

    Well, GTA: SA was shite too. Didn't prevent it from selling. How much did it sell? And how about Halo 2? How much did they sell, between them? More than the six millions of Wind Waker?

    And how big were their marketing budgets as compared to Wind Waker? Not that it is that much of an argument, but consider that the advertising reached out to a potential consumer base of 110 000 000 people. I don't actually think GTA: SA sold more than 8 million copies. I could be horribly wrong, though.

    Oh, and do you know what "tail end sales" are? If you don't, then I suggest you look it up, since the long term sales performance of a title is every bit as relevant as the initial release day sales.

  • abeit #151 7 years ago

    gareth.de your words wont stop people giving the Revolution a chance.

  • Gareth.de #152 7 years ago

    Well, GTA: SA was shite too. Didn't prevent it from selling.
    How much did it sell? And how about Halo 2? How much did
    they sell, between them? More than the six millions of Wind
    Waker?

    Ahahahahaha - Halo 2 alone sold more than 5 million copies within the first 3 weeks of release. Oooops, looks like you have some egg on your face there.... :D

    I'll hunt down the total sales as well if you like?

  • Gareth.de #153 7 years ago

    gareth.de your words wont stop people giving the Revolution
    a chance.

    That's great man. But that's not what I set out to do anyway so it's also kinda pointless to say so. Look at my original post - I said that Nintendo was shooting itself in the foot by concentrating too much on kiddie games, and alienating the majority.

    Since when the blue fuck is that asking people not to give the Revolution a chance? I've already said I'll be getting one myself.

    If people only READ posts before they replied to them... *sigh*

  • gerg #154 7 years ago

    But the thing is, Nintendo's fans like all the Mario and Zelda games (I'm assuming these are meant to be 'kiddie'). So, if you want Nintendo to not give what its fans want, I'm sure you basically want it to crash and burn.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 14:59

  • Gareth.de #155 7 years ago

    No gerg. You're another one who needs to READ posts before posting replies. I said maybe they could set up a division to produce the kiddie games that so many of you fanboys enjoy, but also work on more adult-oriented games that would sell the system to the older people who will otherwise be buying from MS/Sony.

    Take a look - it's about a quarter of the way down the page.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 15:01

  • gerg #156 7 years ago

    But most of the adult games on the market out there which are not console exclusive are done by 3rd party developers. Thus, surely adult games are not Nintendo's problem. They just need more 3rd party support.

  • skybluesam86 #157 7 years ago

    Zelda and Metroid are certainly not 'kiddie'.

    To be honest, I'd like to see a kid get to grips even with Mario Kart completely. Whilst on the outside, the games may look kiddy, gameplay wise they certaily are not.

    A brilliant example of this, imo, is SSB: Melee - looks like a 'kiddy' game, but is one of the most deceptively deep games around.

  • Gareth.de #158 7 years ago

    But most of the adult games on the market out there which
    are not console exclusive are done by 3rd party developers.

    Well that's obvious really if Nintendo refuses to make any of its own. I appreciate that they want to keep their name associated with family gaming etc. etc. but it would be easy to set up an internal studio to create more adult-oriented games. Sega had shitloads of different studios that all worked on different styles of games - why can't Nintendo do this?

    If they want to produce a cheaper console then fine. But at least give gamers the kind of games that they will want to play on it, and not just interactive cartoons.

    What's wrong with the creating new franchises that will appeal to an older audience?

  • gerg #159 7 years ago

    Oooh, Super Smash Brothers: Melee. Certainly my most loved fighter.

  • Gareth.de #160 7 years ago

    To be
    honest, I'd like to see a kid get to grips even with Mario
    Kart completely. Whilst on the outside, the games may look
    kiddy, gameplay wise they certaily are not.

    My 11 year old twin sisters play it a lot and are very good on it...

  • gerg #161 7 years ago

    But what makes a game adult? Give me the list of features...

  • Gareth.de #162 7 years ago

    For fuck sakes wake up. Resident Evil came out not long ago and sold a lot of Cubes - doesn't this tell you something? Not everyone wants to play Pikachu and Mario, but if the only console to offer alternatives are ones with Sony or MS stamped on them, then they'll buy those.

    If Nintendo on the other hand have the kiddie stuff AND adult stuff, then bingo. Why complain about it?

  • skybluesam86 #163 7 years ago

    I would also like to know that, gerg.

    Surely it's more than appearances...

  • Gareth.de #164 7 years ago

    But what makes a game adult? Give me the list of features...

    I think the way Nintendo refused to publish the original Conker on the N64 says it all really. A bit of swearing and they run a mile.

  • gerg #165 7 years ago

    Because just because a game has lots of blood in it it doesn't necessarily make it good. It may sell well to sadists who like to shoot random people, but have you ever thought of WHY games like GTA sell well. It's because of the fact that you can go ANYWHERE. ANYWHERE. It's because people like being able to do WHATEVER they want. The blood is just an extra feature. The blood is there because its the easiest way to tie it in with the exploration feature.

    Fine, so swearing makes a game adult, eh? Say you make Mario 'badass'. You have a different storyline: Kill Bowser to have sex with Peach. Now, people who may like all the swearing may be intrigued, but if the gameplay is exactly the same as Mario 64, why should they want to buy it anymore than the original???


    Lots of games out there are adult, and they sell like crap. Havcing blood in a game doesn't necessarily make it good. It may sell well to all those mindless zombies like you who just buy the games that are 'cool'.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 15:14

  • Stickman #166 7 years ago

    Hello there, you funny, funny people! I'm Jo Public. I think Nintendo is shite, and I'm going to buy a PS3 or a 360.

    Bye!

  • Gareth.de #167 7 years ago

    If you really need to be told the differences between kiddie games and more adult-oriented ones then maybe you're just not ready for this type of game.

    Compare Mario Kart to Forza Motorsport.

    Mario golf to Worldwide snooker 2004.

    Metroid to Doom 3.

    Violence, blood, language, and to a certain degree depth (i.e. the mountain of depth in Forza - what's the answer to this on GC?)

  • Burton2000 #168 7 years ago

    Garath.de. said:
    No gerg. You're another one who needs to READ posts before
    posting replies. I said maybe they could set up a division
    to produce the kiddie games that so many of you fanboys
    enjoy, but also work on more adult-oriented games that would
    sell the system to the older people who will otherwise be
    buying from MS/Sony.

    Take a look - it's about a quarter
    of the way down the page


    well what you actually said is that nintendo should set up another division to make pokemon games.I replided to that by saying it is Game Freek that make alll the handheld pokemon adventures and other companies make most of the other pokemon games like the pinball ones i think nintendo have made about 1 or 2 pokemon titles if that. all Nintendo do with pokemon is PUBLISH it.
    Edited by 2 at 02/06/05 @ 15:22

  • Gareth.de #169 7 years ago

    gerg now you're just being a mong.

    Of course simply adding blood to a game doesn't make it good.

    But refusing to publish a good game simply because it contains blood (which may I add is sometimes a vital part of it - for example if you shoot someone the head you expect blood. And not green blood either.) then that's just stupid. That's just asking for people to buy another console so they can have access to whatever game they want.

    It's not up to Nintendo to decide what people can and can't play, and people know this. That's why they buy another console so that if they *want* bloody and violence, then it's available to them and it's not censored or telly-tubbied.

  • gerg #170 7 years ago

    So are you saying that an adult game is just somethign more serious?? I think I'd prefer multiplayer Mario Kart battles to Driver 3 because I would have much more fun ebing in second place, firing a red shell, and winning in first. Just because a game doesn't feature a gaming icon, does it make it any better..

  • skybluesam86 #171 7 years ago

    But what makes a game adult? Give me the list of
    features...

    I think the way Nintendo refused to
    publish the original Conker on the N64 says it all really. A
    bit of swearing and they run a mile.

    Um...only slightly dodged the question there...
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 15:19

  • Gareth.de #172 7 years ago

    well
    what you actually said is that nintendo should set up
    another division to make pokemon games.

    Do I look like I care which way round it is? Whether Nintendo develop adult games and let someone else do the kid shit, or if they do the kid shit and let someone else do the adult stuff is IRRELEVANT. Fuck sakes, do you get paid to be this pedantic? As long as Nintendo somehow cater for all audiences then hurrah. I don't give a fuck which way they do it.

  • skybluesam86 #173 7 years ago

    So, it's violence, blood and language?

    And only slightly the depth of the gameplay experience?

    Riiiight....

    And then your examples....Metroid and Doom...there's not much difference there.
    Mario golf and snooker....because that's like for like...and Mario golf has hidden depths regardless.
    And of course, snooker is well known for it's blood, language and violence...?!?!?
    Please, if you must, at least make valid comparisons.

  • Gareth.de #174 7 years ago

    I've already answered, Sam.

    I see you're still not tempted to stop being a dick for just a few seconds then?

    *sigh*

  • Burton2000 #175 7 years ago

    yeah but garthe.de. the fact is nintendo do have another company making pokemon games its called Game Freek

  • Gareth.de #176 7 years ago

    So, it's violence, blood and language?

    And then your examples....Metroid and Doom...there's not much
    difference there.
    Mario golf and snooker....because that's like for like...and Mario golf has hidden depths regardless.

    And of course, snooker is well known for it's blood, language and violence...?!?!?
    Please, if you must, at least make valid comparisons.

    Oh for fuck sakes youy truly are the stupidest cunt I've ever known to exist.

    The snooker game is an example of a game that does not exist on the Cube, and I guess it's because it's just too adult. Not many kids play snooker after all - it's more of an adult sport. When they DO use an adult sport like golf, they telly-tubby it with Mario.

    Please die.

  • Gareth.de #177 7 years ago

    yeah but garthe.de. the fact is nintendo do have another
    company making pokemon games its called Game Freek

    Are you waiting for a badge or something?

    That still doesn't answer the need for adult games does it?

    Fuck sakes.

    Wait there, let me check something - how old are you fanboys? If you're all about 8 then that would make sense.

  • gerg #178 7 years ago

    No, I think it wasn't on the Cube becuase Nintendo didn't see a market for it. If they cater for young kids or Mario loving fans, I'm not sure they would want to play snooker...

  • Gareth.de #179 7 years ago

    If they cater for young kids or Mario
    loving fans, I'm not sure they would want to play snooker...

    Exactly, all they're catering for is young kids and Mario loving fans.

    There, you have said it yourself.

    I win, you lose. Now fuck off out of my face.

  • Burton2000 #180 7 years ago

    garathe.de your wrong there is snooker games on cube one is Archer Macleans Pool Paradise

  • Gareth.de #181 7 years ago

    Erm... what about Resident Evil 4? not
    exactly a kiddie game now, is it?

    It's ONE example, and an example I have already used to highlight the need for this kind of thing on the Cube. Trying to use it against me therefore is very, very stupid of you.

    RE4 also shows that your "underpowered" argument doesn't really hold water, at least in comparision to the PS2.

    Are you for real? I never said the Cube was underpowered - that was in relation to the Revolution you fuckwit.

    Are you all on day release or something?

  • Gareth.de #182 7 years ago

    garathe.de your wrong there is snooker games on cube one is
    Archer Macleans Pool Paradise

    Hahahaha, OH MY GOD!

    There is a fundamental difference between pool and snooker. I tell you what, you give me your address and I'll come and put you out of your misery.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 15:33

  • skybluesam86 #183 7 years ago

    There is a fundamental difference between pool and
    snooker. I tell you what, you give me your address and I'll
    come and put you out of your misery.

    There really isn't. Fundamentally, they are identical.

    Where they differ is in the rules. The basic premise, however, is identical - hit cue ball, pot object ball.

  • Gareth.de #184 7 years ago

    Typical Nintendo fanboy - living in a fantasy world.

  • Burton2000 #185 7 years ago

    even if pool paradise wasnt a snooker game it was still a very good game i have to say

  • Gareth.de #186 7 years ago

    Sam, you're just a dick.

    The rules are different, the number of balls is different, the size of the table is different, the type of people who enjoy each game is different. They appeal to completely different types of people.

    So by your reckoning, rugby, football, basket ball, netball are all the same because they all use a ball, right?

    Wanker. You're on ignore.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 15:43

  • Burton2000 #187 7 years ago

    hmm ive never used ignore before does it really do what it sez it does

  • Gareth.de #188 7 years ago

    Please use it and get out of my face.

  • Burton2000 #189 7 years ago

    ooooo the bitchiness

  • skybluesam86 #190 7 years ago

    Oh, god, I completely forgot about the ignore button. I could have saved myself all this.

    I notice also that you're incapable of making a point without gratuitous use of expletives as well. How very 'adult' of you...

  • Gareth.de #191 7 years ago

    Oooooh the stupidity. You're on ignore now too. Bye bye.

  • Gareth.de #192 7 years ago

    Every single point I've made has gone over and above each and every one of you.

    Maybe I should do a Nintendo and simplify it for you?

    Jo Public walks into shop. Joe Public sees Quake, GTA, Burnout etc. on one side with fantastic visuals, and Pikachu, Mario and Yoshi on another side with only-just-better-than-GC visuals.

    Which will he pick?

    Obviously, the most impressive side, which will not the the side Nintendo is using.

    Nintendo simply has to cater for the public and not just you fucking morons.

  • skybluesam86 #193 7 years ago

    I have to say, what a mature way of handling a discussion - you don't like what you're hearing, so you essentially put your fingers in your ears and go 'lalalalala not listening'.

    I really don't want to get drawn on the specifics of pool and snooker, but it's easy enough for anyone with half a brain cell to see that at a fundamental, basic level they share the same common goals.

  • Burton2000 #194 7 years ago

    hey ive just noticed if you ignore that annoying guy then its much easier to get from one end of the page to the other.

  • Burton2000 #195 7 years ago

    well im off now sky blue sam to play guild wars.c ya.

  • skybluesam86 #196 7 years ago

    And the fact that there really won't be a hugely noticeable difference in graphics seems to have totally gone over yours.

    Should I proved wrong, come launch time, track me down and force some humble pie down my throat if that'll make you happy.

    At the moment, everything is speculation.

  • Gareth.de #197 7 years ago

    I just choose not to waste any more of my time talking to someone with half a dog's cock for a brain.

    You have failed to answer any of my arguments. All you have been able to do is repeat like a broken fucking record "Nintendo is best because I think it is" and ignore absolutely every one of the problems I have raised with Nintendo's ethos.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 15:54

  • Gareth.de #198 7 years ago

    How the blue fuck is Nintendo going to release anything as powerful as the other 2? You fanboys have already said they're going to release a cheaper console, so either they sell at a loss or they supply inferior hardware - which is it?

    Answer the fucking questions I'm asking you.

    Which console will fickle Joe Public buy? Which visuals will entice him the most? How the fuck is Nintendo going to supply hardware of equal power for a lower cost? They CAN'T, you idiot. There isn't enough room in the console's box for a super-fast processor for a start. Heat dissipation is going to be a serious problem with that thing, so the only option they have is to use a slower chip that will not run as hot and will not need as much air space and/or fans to cool it down.

    What a moron you really are.

    Considering their track record of supplying the inferior hardware and making a profit where the others make a loss, the money is on them doing the same again.

    Quite how someone can be so stupid and yet still be alive is beyond reason.
    Edited by 2 at 02/06/05 @ 15:58

  • gerg #199 7 years ago

    Wait just a moment Gareth.de? You're getting angry at us becuase we're having an opinion...

    I mean, come on, we're just trying to tell you what we think. You go on with your opinions and I listen. And yet, I get the listening, but in an absurdly rude way. You swear tons - wow, I really know how tough you are now. SWearing is just for people who do not have the vocabulary capacity to say anything more intelligent.

    You put us on ignore. Yay! We've won the argument! YES! You obviously don't have anything left to use as backup, so ignore us. How mature! Fight like a man!

    After all, aren't you just giving us your opinion? We can try and prove it wrong, but at the end of the day, it changes nothing. You have your opinon, we have ours. End of story. I think Nintendo is one of the best companies out there, you don't. END OF STORY. So can you please SHUT UP and STOP ACTING LIKE A BABY???? Pretty please???
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 15:59

  • gerg #200 7 years ago

    Just one rebuttle:

    You ask how Nintendo can get graphics as good as the other two with cheap prices. Here's how: They're releasing their console later than the competition. You say that technology doubles every 18 months. Well, Nintendo's practically releasing the Revolution half a year later than the PS3. Surely by then the technology would be 1/3 of the price???

  • skybluesam86 #201 7 years ago

    How the blue fuck is Nintendo going to release anything as
    powerful as the other 2? You fanboys have already said
    they're going to release a cheaper console, so either they
    sell at a loss or they supply inferior hardware - which is
    it?

    No-one has said they will.
    All I've said is that there won't be as big a gap in the tech inside the boxes of the respective consoles as you seem to think there will be.

    Just my opinion of it, but Nintendo aren't stupid enough to completely alienate the average Joe.

  • Gareth.de #202 7 years ago

    Nintendo's practically releasing the Revolution half a year later than the PS3. Surely by then the technology would be 1/3 of the price???

    Nintendo doesn't manufacture any of its own hardware. Sony has co-developed the Cell processor and so, since it OWNS it, will be getting it a lot cheaper than anyone else would get it for. If you think they're going to sell it to Nintendo at cost price to use in its own console then you're even thicker than I imagined. Seriously. I thought people with your intelligence died out in the last ice age.

    I mean, come on, we're just trying to tell you what we think.

    And that's exactly what I'm doing when I say you're a wanker. You bang on about how faithful Nintendo fans are, but that's just it - you buy their stuff no matter how good or shit it is. People who buy from MS or Sony do so because they have looked at the market, the hardware, the games, the services, and decided on what is the best. Come the next generation they will do the same, and if this means swapping companies then fine - whoever has the best on offer. Nintendo fanboys just stick to Nintendo out of principle and ignore all other factors like choice, performance, service.

    You go on with your opinions and I listen.

    you've listened to absolutely fuck all. It's like talking to a brick wall, seriously. Actually no, I've had more intelligent replies from those.

    wow, I really know how tough you are now.

    Name a time and place man - I've met up for an organised fight before and am happy to do so again. The pleasure I'd gleam from disabling you would be more than playing all 3 consoles with Panelope Cruz sucking my cock at the same time.

    SWearing is just for people who do not have the vocabulary capacity to say anything more intelligent.

    And you somehow manage to be wrong AGAIN!!! In this case, swearing is initiated by the sheer frustration one feels when they find themselves talking to someone who doesn't even have the intelligence of an abortion.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 16:12

  • mattigan #203 7 years ago

    You guys make me laugh!!!

  • gerg #204 7 years ago

    I don't really like you. I find all your frustration quite funny actually. And have I sworn once? No! It really is quite funny.

    Anyway, you're saying that fanboys blindly follow the sheep. Well, I don't. But then I'm not a fanboy. I don't buy all the latest Pokemon games as I'm not sure I'm too into them. You see, I can like Nintendo and not have to buy every product with 'ONLY FOR' marked on it.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 16:16

  • skybluesam86 #205 7 years ago

    I thought he was ignoring us?

  • Gareth.de #206 7 years ago

    Well of course you're not going to swear. Dumb animals never know they're doing wrong, do they?

    And I must confess, the news that you don't like me has gone right to the bone. It hurts, really.

    Pfffft. I couldn't give a fuck, really.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 16:18

  • gerg #207 7 years ago

    Anyway, WHY are you angry again? Are you annoyed at me for not thinking what you think? Can't you just handle my views? All this time you've been insulting me, have I done that to you? No...

    Just let me be...

  • gerg #208 7 years ago

    But WHY do you swear? I think it adds nothing to anything. I find swearing quite ambiguous anyway. I mean sometimes swear words can mean anything.

    AHIMSA man..

    AHIMSA...

    CHILL...

    CALM...

    THINK HAPPY THOUGHTS....

  • Gareth.de #209 7 years ago

    I couldn't care less about your opinion. It's worthless to me. I just find it frustrating that someone could be so stupid and still be allowed to live. You'd have been shot in Nazi Germany, that's for sure.

  • gerg #210 7 years ago

    GOODBYE... :)

    NICE MEETING YOU...

  • Gareth.de #211 7 years ago

    I really can't say the same.

  • gerg #212 7 years ago

    Sky Blue Sam: I think we won. Hurrah!!!

  • Gareth.de #213 7 years ago

    You won the "dullest cunts of the year" award, that's for sure.

  • skybluesam86 #214 7 years ago

    We didn't exactly have much to argue against though.

    Forgive me falling to his standards of character assasination, but we won an argument with a neanderthal. Hardly difficult.

  • gerg #215 7 years ago

    Well, you obviously have no argument left, so you're just insulting us now...

  • Gareth.de #216 7 years ago

    Exactly how have you won anything?

    We've all agreed that Joe Public will buy a PS3 or a 360 before a Revolution. A small percentage will buy a Revolution to sit alongside their #1 choice. We all agreed Revolution will have the weaker visuals. You admitted that Nintendo cater solely for "kids and Mario fans".

    You admitted Resident Evil 4 sold Gamecubes - which shows that the market is not only there for such games, but that with Nintendo it's being starved. Instead they're force-feeding with kid shit that is driving more and more people away to the competition.

    You admitted Nintendo was too late with online gaming.

    You have conceded that the games Nintendo makes are "kiddie" by nature, though you did claim they have an underlying depth... and what about those people who don't want to have to look past kid graphics for depth? What about those who want an adult game from the go?

    Just what the fuck did you win apart from a homo badge?
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 16:43

  • Gareth.de #217 7 years ago

    No argument left? Each one of my points has been proven.

    Fuck, you are stupid.

  • AndyE #218 7 years ago

    I find it hilarious that the Nintendo DS game hailed as the most innovative game for it that'll make non-gamers buy DS is nothing more than a 3D Dogz game:

    http://petz.ubi.com

    I got the original Catz last millennium when we got a new PC that had 32MB of RAM and a super fast 233MHz Pentium processor! With the mouse you could move a hand to pet it, play with it, feed it. Try harder Nintendo, and make a proper sequel to Lylat Wars, not Adventures or Assault which got such poor scores and reviews I'm not going to waste my money on them because I only buy the best.

  • gerg #219 7 years ago

    No, I never agreed that the Revolution will have weaker details. All of that is rumour. Plus, going back to my original post about who Nintendo caters for, I said *IF*. Lastly, who said that the avergae jow will want a PS3 or an Xbox 360 over a Nintendo Revolution, when we don't even know what graphics the machines will have. All of your arguments are based on rumours. Get some facts.

  • Gareth.de #220 7 years ago

    Thank fuck for Andy, or I'd be going round the bend now. You two morons have really done a lot of damage to the reputation of Nintendo fanboys.

    Not only are they persistent, but fucking stupid too.

  • gerg #221 7 years ago

    I don't think Nintendo copied Dogz that much. You know, weeling a mouse around the screen feels different from just simply clicking where you want to go.

  • gerg #222 7 years ago

    So, when are you going to rebuttle my points???

  • Gareth.de #223 7 years ago

    Get some facts.

    LOL. Like the ones you have? *snigger*

    Ok tell me once more, cos I must have forgotten - how is Nintendo going to put together a machine that can come close to - let alone match - the other 2 and sell it for a profit?

    That link one of you wankers sent me earlier had a writeup on how Nintendo always make money on their hardware because they use inferior hardware that is much cheaper. Look at the GBM and compare it to the PSP - newer, cheaper, but a lot less powerful. It has Nintendo written all over it. Of COURSE the Revolution is going to be less powerful.

    Just fucking TELL me how they're going to do it. I'm so curious.

  • Gareth.de #224 7 years ago

    I don't think Nintendo copied Dogz that much.

    Hardly the innovation and revolutionary software you talk about was it?

  • Gareth.de #225 7 years ago

    Come on, tell me how they're going to do it.

    They're going to have a console that can match the other 2 right?

    And it's going to be cheaper than the others...

    So I guess that means they'll be selling at a serious loss for the first time ever then right?

    Come on, arse-hole. You claimed to have won this so tell me your answer.

  • gerg #226 7 years ago

    Aaah, I see you've added more points. First of all, about adult games. You still havn't said what makes a game adult. Blood can make a game adult, and bad language can make it explicit, but it could be a game about Carebears, just with gore and guts thrown in. WOULD YOU CALL THAT ADULT?

    Secondly, you said that I admitted Nintendo was late with online gaming. I admit that they missed the boat, but that doesn't mean they were late. For all we know, Nintendo could have drawn cosnole plans for the next ten years, and the Revolution was the stage where they went online - you know, just one piece of the puzzle. I think that Nintendo are doing the right move with going online now.

    And no, I do not consider Nintendo games 'kiddie'. I have heard many stories of 20 year olds staying up late with friends playing Donkey Konga and Mario Party, and HAVING A BALST TOO.

  • Gareth.de #227 7 years ago

    So which console will people be buying if they want to play everything from cute little Rayman to full-on Quake 4?

    Not a Revolution, because Nintendo feels it has to baby-sit its customers and protect them from any kind of adult game. Only Mario and cutesy little fluffy things for you, sir!!

  • AndyE #228 7 years ago

    Gerg: I don't think Nintendo copied Dogz that much. You know,
    weeling a mouse around the screen feels different from just
    simply clicking where you want to go.

    It may be a different form of control, but I'm 100% sure neither are a patch on actually having a real dog, and I don't see anything about Nintendogs that makes it more worth my money than Dogz 5, I'd sooner buy a Sims game.

  • skybluesam86 #229 7 years ago

    Look at the GBM and compare it to the PSP -
    newer, cheaper, but a lot less powerful

    They're not even in competition. The GBM is 5 year old hardware.

    That's like saying that the N64 is cheaper, but less powerful than a PS2. It doesn't even bear comparison.

  • Gareth.de #230 7 years ago

    I can't be arsed writing this again so I'll just copy and paste. READ it this time please, you wanker.

    gerg now you're just being a mong.

    Of course simply adding blood to a game doesn't make it good.

    But refusing to publish a good game simply because it contains blood
    (which may I add is sometimes a vital part of it - for
    example if you shoot someone the head you expect blood. And
    not green blood either.) then that's just stupid. That's
    just asking for people to buy another console so they can
    have access to whatever game they want.

    It's not up to
    Nintendo to decide what people can and can't play, and
    people know this. That's why they buy another console so
    that if they *want* bloody and violence, then it's available
    to them and it's not censored or telly-tubbied.

  • gerg #231 7 years ago

    First of all, the Game Boy Micro was NEVER meant to compete with the PSP. It is a reiteration of the Game Boy line, just smaller. And because it is part of the Game Boy line, it focuses on 2D gaming (or isometric gaming), and thus, consequently is less powerful. Your comparing a waterfall with a dog kennel.

    And again, you're assuming that the Revolution will be weaker. I guess I was assuming that it won't, but in all honesty, I don't know and NOR DO YOU. So, let's leave that as an open book.

  • Gareth.de #232 7 years ago

    But they're not releasing an N64 and expecting people to buy it are they, fuckwit?

    They're releasing the GBM - more money for the same old slag in a different skirt.

    And why? Cos it's hardware that they can make money on, because it's not cutting-edge. Which is what they will do with the Revolution, which is how they will make their money, which is because it will not be as powerful as the other consoles.

    Do you get it yet, dull fucker?

  • gerg #233 7 years ago

    Please, answer my question. Would you call a CareBear game with guts and gore adult or kiddie? You're answer will help use carry on the discussion?

  • Gareth.de #234 7 years ago

    I guess I was assuming that it
    won't, but in all honesty, I don't know and NOR DO YOU. So,
    let's leave that as an open book.

    But I do know, because I have common sense. Nintendo cannot afford to sell hardware at a loss - it even says that on the fucking link you sent me. As they cannot afford to sell hardware at a loss, then they must use hardware that is cheaper to buy - which by definition, is LESS POWERFUL hardware.

    Dull fucker.

  • gerg #235 7 years ago

    They're releasing the Game Boy Micro to appeal to a new market, to somewhat challenge the PSP in the 'style' department. Nintendo acknowledges that what console you own is like making a fashion statement. So, they release the GBM to say to people: 'hey, here's something a lot cooler than the SP - this may make you want to try the Game Boy line out'.

    Plus, the GBM is the prime example of portable. The PSP and DS are quite bulky, so that may put people off taking them out and about. Not with the GBM.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 17:10

  • gerg #236 7 years ago

    How do you know that cheaper hardware is less powerful? It could be made more economically, thus saving production costs and lowering the price.
    Also, when you make all the parts yourself, the price becomes cheaper.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 17:08

  • skybluesam86 #237 7 years ago

    But they're not releasing an N64 and expecting people to buy
    it are they, fuckwit?

    Quite right, they are not.

    It is, however, still not a valid comparison. I've yet to see you make one valid comparison in all your arguments thus far.

    And please, don't reply until you have a greater command of the english language. If I wanted a string of expletives, I'd go and watch Pulp Fiction or something, not read Eurogamer's comments thread.

  • drumbaby #238 7 years ago

    S'funny, I thought the entire Resident Evil series and the latest version (4) resided on GCN.

    Hardly fluffy or cute. Killer 7 is on the way. Are Prince of Persia 1 & 2 fluffy or cute? There's a fair cross section of both adult and children themed games, both exclusive and multi, on GCN.

    The PS2 is my console of choice, because it has the 3rd person hack 'n' slash covered so well. But the GCN isn't a console aimed exclusively at the fluffy bunny brigade, even if there's plenty of it there....

    Still, generalise away, if it helps! :)

  • skybluesam86 #239 7 years ago

    Ah, drumbaby - someone who isn't a complete spak.

  • Xerx3s #240 7 years ago

    Heh, M$ has a new trick up their sleve! They will not sell any Windows licences to the competition, thereby crippeling them for life.

    /me gets his popcorn & giant finger..
    /FIGHT!FIGHT!FIGHT!

  • gerg #241 7 years ago

    I think we won again! DOUBLE HURRAH!!!

  • Burton2000 #242 7 years ago

    ahhh i wana unblock that guy so i can c all the funny comments hes made

  • Gareth.de #243 7 years ago

    How do you know that cheaper hardware is less powerful? It
    could be made more economically, thus saving production
    costs and lowering the price.
    Also, when you make all the
    parts yourself, the price becomes cheaper.

    Ahahaha, now you REALLY are clutching at straws. Have you ever wondered why the newest graphics cards from nVidia and ATi are more expensive than the older ones? Ever wondered why the newest Athlon64 chips are more expensive than the old Durons?

    Wake up you fucking idiot. And yes I will use expletives for as long as you are a dull fucker, which is going to be for a very long time I guess.

    Efficiency in microchips counts for 3% performance at the most - which is never going to give Nintendo the performance of the other 2 machines for a lower cost. PowerPC chips are said to be more efficient than x86 chips, but guess what wanker, the 360 has 3 of them. Is Nintendo going to magically shit out a processor more efficient than a PowerPC chip? No? Oops.

    No matter which way you cut it, Nintendo's console will be the least powerful of the three. You know it and I know it, so the area in which they have to focus to try and make up for the reduced power is in games.

    Now this is where I REALLY can't work you out. I'm saying that as well as making the games they are already making now, which appeal to you fanboy wankers, they ALSO need to make games that appeal to those of us who are NOT fanboys. They ALSO need to make games that are more ADULT-ORIENTED than fucking Mario and Pikachu.

    Since when the fuck is boosting their software catalogue a bad idea? You are telling me they are on the right path by NOT catering for these types of gamer.

    Variety is the spice of life, fuckwit, and so if Nintendo wants to get all of the customers it needs to get then it needs to offer CHOICE. Mario, Mario and some more Mario just isn't going to cut it - they need to be seen to supply the same variety as the other companies.

    Now please tell me WHICH part of that you don't understand.

  • Gareth.de #244 7 years ago

    Yes, you won next year's "dullest cunt of the year" competition too, in advance.

  • gerg #245 7 years ago

    Okay, for one never say never. Nintendo could pull a technologically advanced machine out of their hat. The highest probability is that they may not be able to, but then there's still taht slim chance that they can, however slim it may be.

    Secondly, I don't see anything wrong with making adult games, I just don't think there's any need for bloody games with lots of swearing. And adult game could all be about rape and have no blood or swearing at all. Yet you STILL HAVN'T answered my question about what makes a game adult... Is a carebear game with lots of blood and swearing ADULT OR NOT????
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 17:40

  • Burton2000 #246 7 years ago

    just unblocked him and reading all the stuff now its quite funny to read.

  • abeit #247 7 years ago

    "Well that's obvious really if Nintendo
    refuses to make any of its own. I appreciate that they want
    to keep their name associated with family gaming etc. etc.
    but it would be easy to set up an internal studio to create
    more adult-oriented games. Sega had shitloads of different
    studios that all worked on different styles of games - why
    can't Nintendo do this?"

    Maybe thats the reason why sega collapsed opening new divisions increases costs so it may not be feasible. Its all about surviving and not making products for adults for the sake of it for every GTA there are 10 Getaways

  • skybluesam86 #248 7 years ago

    ahhh i wana unblock that guy so i can c all the funny
    comments hes made

    You can in your profile.

    As for Nintendo making other types of games - why?
    It's not what they're good at. They're good at Mario, Zelda, etc.
    Leave GTA and the like to Rockstar and their ilk.

    It'd be like asking Delia Smith to build a motorbike.

  • Gareth.de #249 7 years ago

    Ahahaha. Or maybe they could nuke the HQ of Sony and MS and win the console war by default? Why not? It's just as likely as the chances of them pulling out some wondrous machine that has infinite power and costs fuck all to make. So which chip manufacturer would supply these magical new processors then? IBM? Toshiba? Oops, they already own parts of Cell. Intel? Oops - x86 architecture and so not compatible with GC games. AMD? Oops, again x86 architecture.

    PLEASE tell me which magical company will sprinkle fairy dust on Nintendo and deliver them this wondrous new chip that you're talking about.

    Stupid prick.

    And as for adult games, it's not just swearing or blood that makes an adult game. What makes an adult-oriented movie such? Blood? Swearing? Of course not you silly cunt. It's a combination of things that make them something that kids do not want to see/play as they find them boring. They want pretty colours and fluffy characters and simple controls - the epitamy of Nintendo. What adults want is something much more complex, unless you're a cock-sucking fanboy of course.

    So come on tell me - who is going to make this new chip for Nintendo and give it away and make a loss on it?

  • Gareth.de #250 7 years ago

    Maybe thats the
    reason why sega collapsed opening new divisions increases
    costs so it may not be feasible.

    Where the fuck do you people come from? The majority of these divisions were making arcade games which was the only thing Sega was making money on. The reason they folded was because of the hardware, which, surprise surprise is why they pulled out of the HARDWARE market and NOT the arcade one.

    Fuck sakes I'm convinced you lot are on day release.

  • gerg #251 7 years ago

    Look, no one KNOWS 100% that Nintendo can't produce a machine as powerful as the PS3 or Xbox 360. I'm leaving it at that.

    Now, on to adult gaming. You're assuming kids that are 9 or 10 can't handle depth in a storyline, a pretty big assumption. But anwyay, you say adult gaming is about the story and what it represents. So firstly, I think some games in the Nintendo library have depth i.e the Zelda games, the Metroid games, Beyond Good & Evil etc. And because of this being about depth in stroyline, I don't think Nintendo needs to produce games with lots of swearing and blood.

    Secondly, I'm not sure I want a game that makes me worry so much. To me, a game is something to escape from reality in, and I don't want to be playing a game where I feel atatched to it in some emotional way. That may make the game great - it would be a gigantic achievement - but I'm not sure I would want taht myslef personally.

  • Gareth.de #252 7 years ago

    Look, no one KNOWS 100% that Nintendo can't produce a
    machine as powerful as the PS3 or Xbox 360. I'm leaving it
    at that.

    I'm as sure as you being a prick that they will not be able to do this AND meet their aims of selling the hardware cheaper than the other two. Sony and MS will already be selling their hardware at a pretty substantial loss, and you think Nintendo will be able to do the same, but make a profit?

    You're such a prick do you know that? Wake the fuck up.

    You're assuming kids that are 9 or 10 can't handle depth in a storyline

    Ever seen a kid watching Gone with the Wind? The Thomas Crown affair? There's a reason holywood has Pixar - it's because they make movies FOR KIDS. Why? Because they don't appreciate the same stuff, fuckwit.

    I think some games in the Nintendo library have depth i.e the Zelda games, the Metroid games, Beyond Good & Evil etc.

    As always there are exceptions, but no-where NEAR enough of them to warrant purchasing the console if that is the kind of game you like. There simply are NOT enough of them. Anyone who prefers this kind of game must look elsewhere.

    And because of this being about depth in stroyline, I don't think Nintendo needs to produce games with lots of swearing and blood.

    What you think is fucking irrelevant to be honest. It's up to the consumers and what they want to buy. At the end of the day, if someone *wants* that kind of game then they should avoid a Nintendo console because it just can't provide what they want.

    Surely even a stupid fucker like you can appreciate that it would be better to provide a choice? Provide your kiddie games AND the adult games on the same console?

    Do you understand, you prick?

    Secondly, I'm not sure I want a game that makes me worry so much. To me, a game is something to escape from reality in, and I don't want to be playing a game where I feel atatched to it in some emotional way. That may make the game great - it would be a gigantic achievement - but I'm not sure I would want taht myslef personally.

    Again irrelevant because the market does not run on what YOU want and what YOU like. The market contains people of all kinds who like all sorts of games. Telling me Nintendo shouldn't bother with providing more genres because YOU don't play them is just bollocks. You can't run a company like that. You MUST provide for as many people as possible, and Mario and Pikachu and a small selection of adult games just don't do that - MORE are needed.

    Why the fuck can't you see that?

  • gerg #253 7 years ago

    Oh I get it, you're basically saying that a game with 3+ on it can only be enjoyed by seven year olds, as much as a moview that's U can be enjoyed by only that age group aswell. Well, you're wrong - I can tell ya that. The reason moviews are rated higher is because of explicit content, not for a exceedingly depth storyline. Although I can't really say much, I'd assume that a porno film is rated high for explicit content, not a very deep storyline, am I right?

    I don't think Nintendo shouldn't bother with games with lots of swearing and blood as to you, an adult game is one with an in-depth storyline, so blood and gore is just an extra, not a necessity.

    I just want to say that maybe people actually DON'T buy Nintendo consoles for adult games. They buy them for Mario and Zelda etc. - they buy them for Nintendo, not for the same old ports they find on the other consoles.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 18:15

  • abeit #254 7 years ago

    gareth.de if you think revolution will be poor dont buy it and let others who like zelda etc enjoy it.

  • abeit #255 7 years ago

    gareth.de if you think revolution will be poor dont buy it and let others who like zelda etc enjoy it.

  • skybluesam86 #256 7 years ago

    Ever
    seen a kid watching Gone with the Wind? The Thomas Crown
    affair? There's a reason holywood has Pixar - it's because
    they make movies FOR KIDS. Why? Because they don't
    appreciate the same stuff, fuckwit.

    That is quite possibly the most bollocks thing I've ever heard. If anything, it destroys your argument.
    Pixar films are not for kids. They are animated, yes. However, if you'd bothered to watch one, you'd know that for the most part the humour is above what the average kid would expect, as well as the themes involved.
    Take The Incredibles as an example - it dealt with love, relationships, losing the one you love, etc... Hardly themes for a child.

    Congratulations. You've succesfully undermined a large chunk of your argument.

  • gerg #257 7 years ago

    And you do know that animated films are designed to appeal for the parents who take their children to see the film???

  • Gareth.de #258 7 years ago

    Oh I get it, you're basically saying that a game with 3+ on
    it can only be enjoyed by seven year olds, as much as a
    moview that's U can be enjoyed by only that age group
    aswell.

    I'm saying NO SUCH THING you STUPID CUNT. I have simplified what I'm saying over and over so I'm AMAZED that you still don't understand.

    People like you are the reason that euthenasia was invented.

    Well, you're wrong - I can tell ya that.

    It isn't even what I said you stupid fuck.

    I don't think Nintendo shouldn't bother with games with lots of swearing and blood as to you, an adult game is one with an in-depth storyline, so blood and gore is just an extra, not a necessity.

    So what the fuck should you see when you shoot someone in the head in Goldeneye then? In my book you should see blood - so yes, in this case it's a necessity if "realism" is going to play any part in games.

    You're such a prick seriously. Give me your address so I can come and talk to you face to face.

    They buy them for Mario and Zelda etc. - they buy them for Nintendo, not for the same old ports they find on the other consoles.

    Ah so this is why Nintendo loses market share year on year?

    Look you fucking idiot, I'll spell it out once more, JUST for you.

    A console needs choice. It's not only kids that can enjoy a kiddie game, but it IS only adults that will enjoy an adult-oriented game. Do you see the fucking difference? I guess you don't because you appear to suffer from some kind of brain damage...

    Nintendo should provide users with the choice - if you want to play kid games there here you go! If you want to play adult games then we have those too!

    At the moment the story is this - If you want to play kid games then great! We have lots! If you want to play adult games then... er... well... we have a couple. But if you want more than 3 or 4 games in your collection then you better shop elsewhere.

    Now let's see you misunderstand that again here in front of everyone you silly cunt.

  • Gareth.de #259 7 years ago

    Congratulations. You've succesfully undermined a large chunk of your argument.

    So explain if you will... why was it that the cinemas were full of kids? Yes there were adults... but they were parents taking their kids to watch the movie.

    Ok since you're equally spasticated, allow me to illustrate for you in a simplified, Nintendo-esque way.

    Console + only 1 type of game = ok if you only want to sell to 1 type of person.

    Console + many types of games = better because it will attract a wider variety.

    Are you seriously disagreeing with that, cunt?

  • gerg #260 7 years ago

    Fine, I've obviously got you wrong. Tell me, again, what you want when it comes to adult games. Do you want violence? Do you want an emotional storyline? What DO you want?

  • gerg #261 7 years ago

    LOOK - JUST TELL ME WHAT YOU DISLIKE ABOUT THE GAME CUBE...

    AT THE MOMENT I ONLY SEE YOU COMPLAINING THAT THERE AREN'T ENOUGH ADULT GAMES. YOU SAID IT TO ME, WHY SHOULD NINTENDO NOT PRODUCE CERTAIN TYPES OF GAMES JUST BECUASE *YOU* DON'T ENJOY THEM??

  • Gareth.de #262 7 years ago

    Fine, I've obviously got you wrong.

    At fucking last!! You moron!!!

    Here's what I want from a console: CHOICE. I do not want to be offered only a select few styles of games that have been deemed suitable by the company that made my console. I want to be able to choose anything I want.

    If I wanna play kiddie games then I want it to be MY choice - not because that's the only kind of game available on my system.

    Nintendo HAS to cater for those who do not believe Mario and Pikachu are the be-all and end-all of games. At the moment they do not, and they are losing market share because of it.

    Now tell me WHY THE FUCK it took you SO LONG to get that through your fucking head?

  • Gareth.de #263 7 years ago

    Actually don't tell me. You've already wasted way too much of my time. I have nothing else to say to you or your gaylord friend.

    I've won, and you're a dick.

  • gerg #264 7 years ago

    Well, now I can say I havn't go you wrong after all. Here's my opinion:

    Basically, to me anyway, Pikachu and Mario are not the be-all and en-all of games, although most of the games in the series are batter than the likes of GTA. But anyway, I got a Cube becuase I wanted the Nintendo franchises. I understand that Nintendo mainly focuses on its series, but I think that it has mature games on it. Ah! There's the word: MATURE.

    I think your definition of an adult game is wrong. I think what you want are mature games and not adult ones.

  • gerg #265 7 years ago

    And, by the way, becuase I've got you wrong doesn't mean your right. It just means that I need you to explain your theory again.

  • gerg #266 7 years ago

    I guess it was a draw then....

    A bit of a broing end after all of it.

  • Gareth.de #267 7 years ago

    I've already explained it a hundred times to you and your gaylord friend. For the whole thread you have been unable to understand the fuckingf SIMPLE concept that a console needs variety in its games and not just kid's games. Whether you deem them mature or not is irrelevant - Nintendo is perceived as a kiddie company and it's easy to see why. Look at the E3 pictures. See any adult (or mature) games? No? Maybe they're hiding behind Mario golf or any of the other 50 Mario games?

    I've proven my point that Nintendo focusses only on "kids and Mario fans", that you are the dullest fucker of the year, and that Nintendo IS going to hav the least powerful console - mark my words.

    I don't want to talk to you again. I've won, and you have lost. You're a case for euthenasia and that's that.

    Good bye, and please don't have any kids.

  • gerg #268 7 years ago

    Were you lookin away from LOZ: Twighlight Princess on purpose????

  • Gareth.de #269 7 years ago

    Naming individual games as a last-ditch attempt to salvage some dignity isn't going to work. Like I already said 2 or 3 hours ago, there are exceptions yes, but not enough. Is a Zelda game going to keep someone happy for the life of the console? No it isn't.

    Now fuck off!!!!

  • gerg #270 7 years ago

    So you want examples do you? Well, every game we give you is part of a series, and you dismiss it as exceptions. Whole series are apparently 'exceptions'?

  • Gareth.de #271 7 years ago

    Cunt, is the whole series on the same console? No it's not. They span multiple consoles. Why the fuck are you still going? You're just making an even bigger dick of yourself.

  • AndyE #272 7 years ago

    I don't care what price the new consoles are, I'm buying the one I think provides value for money. The DS may be cheaper than PSP but I'd say the PSP offers better value for money with all its features and widescreen.

    I don't know when I'll buy a PS3, X360 or Revolution though, I have far too many games still to play that I've bought, haven't bought and will buy when they're released for the current generation.

  • gerg #273 7 years ago

    Well, there are two Zeldas, two Metroids, Beyond Good & Evil, around 3 or 4 Resident Evils, Geist, Killer 7 etc.

    Can't we just agree to disagree? Don't get angry at me for having an opinion. I understand that you want more mature games on the GC - I wish Okami would be ported. We don't get what we want all the time, get used to it.

  • Gareth.de #274 7 years ago

    I don't know when
    I'll buy a PS3, X360 or Revolution though, I have far too
    many games still to play that I've bought, haven't bought
    and will buy when they're released for the current
    generation.

    That's true man. I have about 60 Dreamcast games I'm yet to complete, 40 Xbox ones and 10 Gamecube ones. :/ I overestimate the hours I can spend playing games every week every time I walk into a games shop. :/

  • Gareth.de #275 7 years ago

    Well, there are two Zeldas, two Metroids, Beyond Good &
    Evil, around 3 or 4 Resident Evils, Geist, Killer 7
    etc.

    Are those enough to last a console lifetime? Nope! I like the way you put "etc." at the end, like there are any others you could name. lol.

    Don't get angry at me for having an opinion.

    I don't get angry for people having an opinion. I get angry when they're too stupid/blind/ignorant to see something that's staring them in the face.

    For example - you STILL won't admit that Nintendo's console is going to be the least powerful. It's all but confirmed. I'll come looking for you when Nintendo do eventually release specifications and I'll make sure you eat your words.

    We don't get what we want all the time, get used to it.

    We can, but we have to shop around to get it - from different companies - if the one we originally choose doesn't deliver. Unless of course you're a fanboy.

  • gerg #276 7 years ago

    More mature games:

    Eternal Darkness, Mortal Kombat: Deception

    Look, I admit that the Gamecube doesn't ahve a lot of mature games, but I'm not saying it needs any more.
    Anyway, I'm not admitting that the Revolution will be underpowered because you're basing your argument of speculation.

  • gerg #277 7 years ago

    Another 'mature' game:

    XIII

    About Revolution: You said it yourself - it's all BUT CONFIRMED.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 20:07

  • Gareth.de #278 7 years ago

    Look, I admit that the Gamecube doesn't ahve a lot of mature games, but I'm not saying it needs any more.

    Yea, you've already lost that battle. And YOU saying you don't think it needs any more is irrelevant - what about the people who only want mature games? They and their money don't matter? Wake up man and stop being a ponse. You did it earlier... just for 2 posts but you still did it. For those who enjoy mature games, Nintendo is not an option. But it NEEDS to MAKE itself an option by supplying more.

    Please stop scraping the barrel for names of mature games. I could blow away the list with just the first pile of Xbox games I have in front of me.

    Anyway, I'm not admitting that the Revolution will be underpowered because you're basing your argument of speculation.

    Nope. The site one of you (you or that gay friend you have) gave me earlier clearly stated that Nintendo's wealth largely came from the fact that they make money on the hardware, whereas the others lose money and make it on the games.

    For Nintendo to MAKE money on the hardware then it will have to be cheaper to build than the others. Cheaper to build = technically inferior whichever way you look at it.

    You fucking KNOW I'm right here, so quite why you insist on denying it like a cock is beyond me.

  • gerg #279 7 years ago

    I can't be bothered anymore. Let the baby have his bottle...

    Go ahead. Win. At the end fo the day it really doesn't matter, so I'll be the mature one and just leave it. (even though I still don't think you're right)
    Edited by 2 at 02/06/05 @ 20:10

  • Gareth.de #280 7 years ago

    XIII

    Maybe I should add that I'd only be interested in a mature GC game if it was exclusive to that console. I have an Xbox, which has superior versions of all cross-platform games, so why would I spend the same amount on a GC version?

    Exclusive games only please.

    Yes, the list just got a lot smaller didn't it?

    About Revolution: You said it yourself - it's all BUT CONFIRMED.

    Yep I did. This means that it's obvious. It's accepted by all who have common sense. The only thing left is for Nintendo to confirm what we already know.

    How old are you?

  • gerg #281 7 years ago

    Look, I'm 13. I like Nintendo.The last two arguments: I think that there is no truth to speculate on how high in terms of power levels the Revolution will be and Nintendo has survived 4 generations of games without too many adult ones, they can do it again.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 20:14

  • Gareth.de #282 7 years ago

    Go ahead. Win.

    I already have, hours ago, and I didn't need your blessing to do so either.

    At the end fo the day it really doesn't matter, so I'll be the mature one and just leave it. (even though I still don't think you're right)

    LOL. After spending 4 hours trying to win yourself? I think it's pretty obvious you've just run out of ideas.

    Your gaylord partner has deserted you too, bless.

    And where's that fucker who tried to get all clever with 6 million sales for Wind Waker was it? Can't remember. But anyway, he soon fucked off when he learned that Halo 2 smashed that record in less than a month. LOL. GAY!

  • DDevil #283 7 years ago

    Jeezus Gareth, did someone chase you from under your bridge?

    Your speculating on consoles that at the earliest are 6 months away. You're presenting heresay, opinion and the speculation of yourself and others as fact.

    Your arguement about "Jo Public" is invalid as you're painting the ENTIRE public with the same brush.

    You are just a troll. It shows in your language, your confrontation manner and your gloating about your "victories".

    And by the way, I don't mind Mario, Metroid, SSBs et al. to be "kiddie". They're some of the most mature and well thought out games I have ever played. I guess it's in the eye of the beholder though.

  • Stickman #284 7 years ago

    290 comments guys.

    Stop.

  • Burton2000 #285 7 years ago

    i agree with DDevil and yeah can we make it to 300 coments?

  • AndyE #286 7 years ago

    At least this is more entertaining than the Red Vs Blue comments section on their episodes, the first thousand or more are from impatient non-sponsors begging for the latest episode.

  • Les #287 7 years ago

    "But anyway, he soon fucked off when he learned
    that Halo 2 smashed that record in less than a month. LOL.
    GAY!"

    You're a very sad person Gareth. And why did a shitty game like Halo 2 smash that record? Might have something to do with hype. And all you M$ fanboys fell for it.

  • gylo #288 7 years ago

    one step closer to that golden 300

  • abeit #289 7 years ago

    296

  • abeit #290 7 years ago

    297

  • abeit #291 7 years ago

    298

  • abeit #292 7 years ago

    299

  • abeit #293 7 years ago

    300 yipee gareth.de is gone that man is a fanboy of everyhing except NINTENDO
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/05 @ 23:23

  • Gareth.de #294 7 years ago

    Your arguement about "Jo Public" is invalid as you're painting the ENTIRE public with the same brush.

    It's based on what happened with every hardware release since the Master System. If you don't like it then that's not my problem, but calling it invalid for that reason is just gay, seriously.

    You're a very sad person Gareth. And why did a shitty game like Halo 2 smash that record? Might have something to do with hype. And all you M$ fanboys fell for
    it.

    Oh, not another mong please? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I'm not a fanboy, you prick. And actually Halo 2 was very enjoyable. The library levels were again annoying, but nevertheless it pissed all over Metroid from a massive height IMO.

    So suck it. 8==========D

  • captain-future #295 7 years ago

    Gareth.de: every single game (with the exception of Splinter Cell series) I had a chance to compare on PS2 and Cube looked on Nintendo's console slightly sharper/better/smoother.

    Let's wait for RE4 and we have a definite answer to this question.

    Also, I think you have a point when you say if developers do double hours they will squeeze more from PS2 on a technical aspect - I have to agree with that, but many developers are lazy porters...
    and

    please allow me two small alterations to your statement to emphasize my point:
    So when the gaming public walks into
    Game/HMV/Virgin and sees 3 consoles; two of them playing
    games with the technical prowess of the tech demos witnessed
    at E3 [priced at 400 GBP], and one of them playing Super Mario world and other
    games from 20 years ago[priced at 150 GBP], which one are they going to buy you
    dull fucker? So you think an innovative new controller is
    going to shift Revolutions? Ah yes I can see it now:


    I think the way Nintendo refused to
    publish the original Conker on the N64 says it all really. A
    bit of swearing and they run a mile.

    guess, what MS is doing right now on Xbox?

    /man, I hate those linebreaks, SOMEBODY @ EUROGAMER PLEASE FIX IT.
    Edited by 2 at 03/06/05 @ 00:09

  • Shadar #296 7 years ago

    And where's that fucker who tried to get all
    clever with 6 million sales for Wind Waker was it? Can't
    remember. But anyway, he soon fucked off when he learned
    that Halo 2 smashed that record in less than a month. LOL.
    GAY!

    Oh, I just went and did something constructive for a few hours. Got an exam in Victorian literature coming up in the morning, so I was reading some summaries to sharpen up on my Bronte.

    Now, about those game sales ... Let's look at this again ... GTA: SA, a game I don't believe sold more than the eight million copies I mentioned, sold to one tenth of the potential PS2 market. Follow me so far? Halo 2 sold ... what? I don't really know. You claim five million in one week. That might be true. I'm not sure it did that, because GTA: SA sold one million copies over a weekend, in a far bigger market, and while things might change, I believe they still hold a record for fastest selling game. Now, both the market of the Xbox and the PS2 is bigger than that of the GameCube. Still, last time I checked, Wind Waker had sold more than six million copies. That means every third owner of a GameCube also owns Wind Waker. That's pretty good market penetration. I guess the same might be true of Halo 2, but we still have the one tenth of PS2 owners buying GTA: SA.

    Now, what I meant to highlight by this argument was the following: how can you claim Nintendo to be out of tune with their audience when their, by your standards, ultra-kiddie, cel-shaded piece-of-shit Zelda sold to one third of them? That's about as much as Halo 2 have done. Now, I don't know much about the global marketing campaigns for Halo 2 vs. Wind Waker, but I never saw a single Wind Waker commercial. I saw a ton of Halo 2 ads. Sooo ... MS had to reach out and push their IP. Zelda sold itself. Now, bear in mind I might be completely wrong with regards to the advertising, since I live in Norway, and games advertising isn't really up over here, but my point regarding amount of copies sold versus established user base still stand. You can choose not to accept it, of course, and I guess you will be ridiculing it in just about a moment.

    Now, about those underpowered specs you're talking about ... once again, I ask you: do you know? How can you know? Since you are assuming, I'll allow myself to do the same. The x360 comes stocked with a 20GB HDD. Not exactly top of the line, I know, but it still costs a pretty penny. Especially when it's not a standard 3 1/2 format drive. It'll probably be 2 1/3. The inclusion of that will push it above a Nintendo Revolution running the same specs. Now, Nintendo has as good a relationship to ATi and IBM as MS has. Why shouldn't they be getting their chips at a nice price? You argued that Sony manufactured their own chips, whereas Nintendo did not. That's not entirily correct. IBM has the second largest production capacity for chips in the world. They are not as capable as Intel, but they are far more capable than Sony and Toshiba, who have produced Sony's chips prior to the Cell. Even if that was a point, it is voided since IBM handles the production of all three next-gen CPUs. The one with the most standard solution will be the cheaper, logically, but I think all three console holders will be going for 90nm die sizes. For Nintendo, it is particularly importent, considering the relatively small size of their console, since smaller die sizes means less heat. So ... my point is: why should Sony and MS get their chips any cheaper than Nintendo? Because they buy larger quantities? Do you really think so? I think all three platform holders crank out a lot of consoles at the same time to prevent shortages. Except for Sony, perhaps, who use console shortage as a kind of marketing device. "Look how sought-after we are! All sold out! Hurry and get yours!"

    So you have no foundation for your claim that the Nintendo Revolution will use inferior hardware to get by as cheaper. They will likely choose another solution, though. One that likely does not include a hard drive, for instance, and will thus be cheaper. Nintendo claims that their next console will be extremely simple to develop for. Maybe that means they don't use custom chips at all, but rather a standard-issue CPU from IBM? One that the industry is likely to have experience with? One that's not a tri-core monster of parallell processing and in-order architecture? Now, I don't know how many cores Nintendo's CPU will boast, and I don't really know whether or not it will be in-order or not, but I think it is pretty likely that it will be an out-of-order chip. Feel free to play with words here, if you don't know what an in-order and an out-of-order chip architecture is. All I am trying to prove is that you probably don't know what you're talking about. Can you disprove my claims that Nintendo will have just as good manifacturing deals as Sony and MS, if not better, if they choose not to make a custom chip for their new system?

    Now, there's still the matter of making Country Joe Motherfucker buy the right/wrong console. That will be all about appeal. At least the Revolution has one thing going for it there, with its very good looks. Looks a whole less horrible than the PS3 and arguably a lot better than the concave almost-iPod x360. That will probably not factor in that much, but since you're talking about lowest common denominator, I'll chance that the Revo's good looks will appeal to just that. Then there's the matter of the games. Why shouldn't Nintendo have something impressive on show, really? Is there a single good reason for that? We've already established that their console might well be as powerful as the competition. Probably not as powerful as the PS3, since that's a veritable computing beast, at least when you measure floating-point calculations, a highly theoretical scale at best, but there's good reason to believe that it will be on equal terms with the Xbox, if for no other reason than the fact that it'll likely be introduced one year later, at which point MS is probably still working on selling their initial shipments, based on components bought at a prime price point from IBM and ATi. So the Revo comes along a year later, with their one-year-later price tag, able to sell at a lower cost than the x360. If MS match, they lose money, since they will be selling consoles based upon the initial, expensive shipment. But that's a minor point. I'm digressing. Let's get back to the games. Now, can you give me a single reason why Nintendo shouldn't have an impressive set of launch titles? Ports of all the established franchises will be ready for release if Nintendo gets third-party support, which I deem it likely that they will. Most, if not all, publishers will take a chance on the new console, and pull out later if it fails. Ports of the most successful games on the PS3 and x360 will likely be ready for launch with the Revo. Of course, I can't prove this, but you can't really disprove it either, since we both know ports won't really be a problem, especially when all three consoles share the same basic IBM chip design. The GPU inconsistensies can be solved via differing code paths. There's a reason they don't sell nVidia or ATi-specific titles, and that's because an engine doesn't need to be hardcoded to a specific chipset. Instead you make varying code paths to yield the same result. Pretty simple. Porting games in the next generation will be a lot simpler than in the current, I think. Thus, it seems logical that Nintendo will launch with most major franchises available, since the porting process will be nice and simple.

    Anything else you'd like to argue about?

    Oh, and by the way ... sock puppet? Anyone? Please?

  • Genji #297 7 years ago

    Holy mother of God - over 300 posts??? This is quite amusing. Man, some of you could write a thesis on this stuff.

  • Shadar #298 7 years ago

    Gareth, for instance, could write a thesis on the effect of swearing on an otherwise solid discussion.

    He just redefined my idea of trolling.

  • DDevil #299 7 years ago

    "If you don't like it then that's not my
    problem, but calling it invalid for that reason is just gay,
    seriously."

    Nice to see you backing up your argument with well thought out facts rather than just opinions and swears. Oh wait a minute...

    You seem to be unable to grasp a very simple concept that people have explained to you many times on this thread. Let me try:

    Not everyone is like you. When you say "Jo Public" you are refering to YOURSELF, even if you don't realise it. There are people out there who are going to buy PS3, there are people out there who are going to buy Xbox360 and there are people out there who are going to buy Revolution. Or two of them. Or all three.

    The point being is that Nintendo can quite happily go ahead and make games like they do now, and maybe you won't buy them. I might not buy them. But as long as people are making purchases and Nintendo are making a profit (which they are) they will continue to trade.

    Forget your "kiddie" games, forget your "Jo Public", forget your "cock sucking fanboys". I don't know why your argue with such vitriol, the next gen of consoles has not been finalised yet.

  • Burton2000 #300 7 years ago

    i agree with shader and yeah can you believe it 300 posts. thats goa b a record for eurogamer

  • captain-future #301 7 years ago

    @Shadar

    thanks for making my morning a little brighter.

  • gerg #302 7 years ago

    Yay for Shadar! I went to bed feeling crap last night. I wake up to read his post and I feel a WHOLE lot better! Woohoo!

  • Gareth.de #303 7 years ago

    every single game (with the exception of Splinter Cell series) I had a chance to compare on PS2 and Cube looked on Nintendo's console slightly sharper/better/smoother.

    That's nice, really, but I don't have a PS2 - I said Xbox...

    You claim five million in one week. That might be true.

    Nope. READ what I said - 5 million in 3 weeks. It's obviously sold more than that now, and I think about 1 in 4/5 Xbox owners now own the game. It's not something that I claim - check google and you'll get shitloads of links, all from different *AND INDEPENDENT* sources.

    how can you
    claim Nintendo to be out of tune with their audience when
    their, by your standards, ultra-kiddie, cel-shaded
    piece-of-shit Zelda sold to one third of them?

    LOL oh for fuck sakes here we go again. You've already answered your own question - PS2 and Xbox audiences are much larger than that of the GC - your answer is RIGHT THERE. Who gives a fuck if they sold to 1 in 3 GC customers? 1 in 3 of a small number is really not a lot of people. The fact that GC's market share IS FALLING is the proof that Nintendo is "out of tune with their audience" as you put it.

    What you are doing is comparable to saying "In a room full of gays, 1 in 3 had HIV. Looks like HIV awareness groups are out of touch with their audience."

    When this is obviously bollocks - the audience is not just people who already own a Gamecube - it's EVERYONE who is able to play games. If Nintendo's audience was only people who already own their console, what will they do on the release of the Revolution? They will have 0 audience by your definition.

    And you're having exams soon? Good luck with those...

    Now, Nintendo has as good a relationship to ATi and IBM as MS has. Why shouldn't they be getting their chips at a nice price?

    LOL. How about this? Because ATi makes graphics cards and IBM makes CPUs.

    I hope the remainder of your post was better planned than what I've read so far, for Christ sake...

    Ooops, looks like it wasn't...

    So ... my point is: why should Sony
    and MS get their chips any cheaper than Nintendo? Because
    they buy larger quantities? Do you really think so?

    It's really funny how you fanboys try to put words in my mouth. Sadly though I wouldn't make such a lame assumption. I never said MS and Sony are getting their cheaper, you fuckwit - I said they will be charging more for their consoles AND making a loss, whereas Nintendo plans to make a profit on their hardware because AS THE FUCKING LINK THAT GAYLORD SENT ME YESTERDAY states, Nintendo only has hardware and software sales. They simply must make money on hardware. You all say they will sell the console for £150 - if that's so, then how the fuck are they going to be using the same kind of technology, if they have to sell the console cheaper than the others AND make a profit on it? Hmmm? Tell me. To make a profit while charging LESS than the others, the hardware will have to cost LESS.

    It's really simple. Why don't you understand it? What's wrong with you? Is Eurogamer a disabled people's game site or something?

    One that likely does not include a hard drive, for
    instance, and will thus be cheaper.

    Ah so not including a hard drive is going to save them over 300 quid per console? Hahahaha. Oh dear... think again.

    Feel free to play with words here, if you don't know what an in-order and an out-of-order chip architecture is.

    Ahahahaha, yes I do. Does the fact that I read slashdot mean nothing to you? Fuck sakes... look, before you start acting high and mighty and pretend that you know everything, please answer my question with regards to price - how can they make a console equally as powerful, sell it for less, and make a PROFIT while the others will be making a loss? Explain it to me. I can't wait to see you try.

    Can you
    disprove my claims that Nintendo will have just as good
    manifacturing deals as Sony and MS, if not better, if they
    choose not to make a custom chip for their new
    system?

    Well if they can magically manufacture a CPU that no-one knows about, make it as powerful as what is powering the other machines and save £300 on every console, then that's going to be one fucking amazing achievement.

    All I am trying to prove is that you
    probably don't know what you're talking about.

    Oh I do, don't worry about that. :)

    That will probably not factor
    in that much, but since you're talking about lowest common
    denominator, I'll chance that the Revo's good looks will
    appeal to just that.

    Looks of the hardware will make fuck-all difference to people's purchase choices to be honest. Sure, they might complain that the console they have set their heart on is ugly, but they will choose a console for its selection of games primarily. This is where Nintendo is failing. All it will have on offer is 90% kiddie games and 10% mature ones. The others will have a much more balanced selection to cater for EVERYONE, not just hardcore fanboys like yourselves.

    Why shouldn't Nintendo have something impressive on show, really? Is there a single good reason for that?

    I'm really getting tired of this. Why do you insist on asking such stupid questions? No, that isn't what I said. I said Nintendo will have fuck all choice for the average gamer. 3 different kinds of Mario games is not how I define 'choice'. Which part of this do you not understand? Tell me and I will draw you a diagram.

    We've
    already established that their console might well be as
    powerful as the competition.

    Hmm, I don't call your wild claims that Nintendo will somehow be able to manufacture hardware that is costing the other 2 companies millions for so so much less, an "established" idea. I'm amazed at how stupidly you are approaching this. We all know MS and Sony are going to make serious losses on their hardware sales if they go for anything less than 400 quid, so how the fuck do you suggest Nintendo will make a profit on 150 quid for the same spec hardware? Enlighten me, I DARE you. In fact, I BEG you - tell me how they can do it please. I'm all ears.

    By the way, asking me "Who says Nintendo can't make a new chip?" is not an answer. I want you to explain how they can obtain the same level of hardware AND make a profit on the 150 quid level.

    Looking forward to it.

    still working on selling their initial shipments, based on
    components bought at a prime price point from IBM and ATi.

    LOL. You think MS and Sony will continue paying the initial costs for their hardware through the lifetime of the console? Of course not you idiot. As prices come down through the year, manufacturing becomes easier and they switch to more cost-effective processes, MS and Sony will be paying just as little for their hardware as Nintendo will, and they will be able to drop prices further.

    Do you think MS is still paying the same price now for nVidia graphics chipsets as it was when the Xbox was first launched? LOL. You're really lame aren't you?

    Ports of the most successful games on the PS3 and x360 will
    likely be ready for launch with the Revo.

    Perhaps, as long as the IP is not owned by MS or Sony. And of course the ports will have to be dumbed down for the less powerful Revolution, not to mention the simpleton Nintendo fanboys with their 1-button controllers.

    There's a reason they don't sell nVidia or ATi-specific titles, and that's because an engine doesn't need to be hardcoded to a specific chipset. Instead you make
    varying code paths to yield the same result.

    Ever heard of DirectX or OpenGL? Moron.

    He just redefined my idea of trolling.

    I thought trolling was posting inaccurate shit? Such as your lengthy post here... I'm so looking forward to hearing your explainations to my questions.

    i agree with shader and yeah can you believe it 300 posts.
    thats goa b a record for eurogamer

    Ah the brown-noser is back with a new boyfriend. How cute. You'd agree with anything as long as they were trying (so desperately may I add) to defend Nintendo's stance on it's hardware and software. Even against the odds. Which is lame.

    What's your problem Gareth?

    Maybe it's having to post at least 100 messages to get a simple point through to you dull fuckers?

    Maybe it's the way you keep putting words into my mouth or misquoting me?

    Maybe it's the way you keep defending Nintendo's actions purely for the sake of it and not because it makes any sense?

    Maybe it's because you keep insiting that 3 or 4 mature games in a flood of Mario and Pikachu ones are enough to satisfy the mature gamer?

    Maybe it's because you're all fuckwits?

    My point was: the cube wasn't underpowered compared to PS2.

    Ahahaha, yea, SURE it was... lol. Ah geez, you people are so pathetic. Why the fuck would you make that point? No-one had said otherwise. No-one had said the GC was underpowered. What a mong you are.

    So to throw out a blanket statement that Revo will be massively underpowered
    compared to PS3

    Read the top of the post, and explain to me how Nintendo can make the hardware, sell it for 1/3 of the price, and make a profit where the others will be making a loss.

    Explain it you silly fucker.

  • gerg #304 7 years ago

    Gareth.de, what you're not getting is that Nintendo appeals to its FANBASE (ever used that word before) much better than Microsoft appeals to theirs. Although 2/3 of 20 million people don't have Wind Waker, more than 80% of Xbox's 110 million don't have Halo 2. Not exactly giving the majority what they want eh?

    And don't fight back saying that Nintendo didn't give the other 2/3 what they wanted, because they were just put off by the cel-shading, and now Nintendo is giving THEM what they want.
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 10:10

  • Gareth.de #305 7 years ago

    Yay for Shadar! I went to bed feeling crap last night. I
    wake up to read his post and I feel a WHOLE lot better!
    Woohoo!

    Awww, almost makes me feel bad for blowing his post apart... :(

  • gerg #306 7 years ago

    Well the fact that you didn't, doesn't amke me feel any worse.

  • Gareth.de #307 7 years ago

    Although 2/3 of 20 million
    people don't have Wind Waker, more than 80% of Xbox's 110
    million don't have Halo 2. Not exactly giving the majority
    what they want eh?

    LOL. The selling of a single game to owners of that particular console is actually irrelevant.

    Ok, let me make it REALLY simple for you. I guess since you're 13 you're studying GCSE now. Hmm. Or actually based on your IQ, I'd guess maybe NVQs... but nevertheless, you should be able to answer me:

    If a company's market share is at 10%, and is still falling let's say 1% every 1/2 years, what position will it be in within 20 years?

    I'll give you a clue - it rhymes with "ducked".

    So, what do they need to do?

    To the average user it's pretty simple, but to you guys I think I'll explain - they need to INCREASE market share. How do they do this? By appealing to a BROADER AUDIENCE. How do they do this? By selling a WIDER VARIETY AND RANGE of games.

    Now fuck off.

  • Gareth.de #308 7 years ago

    Well the fact that you didn't, doesn't amke me feel any
    worse.

    Well I STILL don't see any posts explaining how Nintendo is going to make a powerful console for 150 quid... wanna have a go?

  • Gareth.de #309 7 years ago

    And don't fight back saying that
    Nintendo didn't give the other 2/3 what they wanted, because
    they were just put off by the cel-shading, and now Nintendo
    is giving THEM what they want.

    Look you stupid bastard, I don't care how many GC owners bought that single game - like I've already said, 1/3 of a small number is not very big is it? The fact is that Nintendo's "USERBASE" is shrinking because people are abandoning ship and moving to another platform.

    WHY???

    Because of CHOICE. Who the fuck wants to wait around and get 1 mature game every 6 months/1 year when there are loads of high quality ones on the other machines?

    If the GC was my only console then I'd be fucked because there just aren't enough mature games. It's fine for my 11 year old twin sisters (they also have a GC btw...) but for me it just doesn't cut the mustard. I bought my GC for the EXCLUSIVES that are shit-hot. I've already named some yesterday, but in fact I have 10 games. 10 exclusive games that were worth buying the console for. And that's it. I can see no other exclusive games, existing or in development, that I would want to own as they are simply not mature enough.

    Compare that to my Xbox and Dreamcast collections which are about 60 and 70 respectively.

    Does this not illustrate my point of CHOICE in a simple enough way for you to understand?

    Good morning by the way, fuckwit.
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 10:25

  • Gareth.de #310 7 years ago

    All 100+ of my posts can be summed up right here:

    1. Nintendo must appeal to more people - namely adults as they are the ones with the cash - by providing more mature games.

    2. Nintendo cannot produce hardware at the same level as the PS3 and Xbox 360 for 150 quid and make a profit. It's not possible.

    Now if anyone wants to disagree with either of those, go ahead, but I want REASONS and EVIDENCE. Not fanboy shite like yesterday.

  • skybluesam86 #311 7 years ago

    Your gaylord partner has deserted you too,
    bless.

    I presume by that that you meant me - all I can say is that I have a life, so I went out (yes, gareth, there is a world out there).

    Many apologies if this evidently ruined your day.

  • gerg #312 7 years ago

    True, I felt bad about arguing for 4 hours. I mean, am I that low???

  • Gareth.de #313 7 years ago

    I presume by that that you meant me -
    all I can say is that I have a life, so I went out (yes,
    gareth, there is a world out there).

    I guess you went to meet up with your real-life gay lover then?

    In either case, as soon as you left the air stopped reeking so much of bullshit - a strange co-incidence don't you think?

    So, does no-one fancy explaining to me how Nintendo is going to make this wonder-console for 150 quid and make a profit?

    Come on, it should be *easy* for you fanboys.

  • gerg #314 7 years ago

    Well, frankly, I've got better things to do than argue about something which will have no effect on my real life whatsoever when I should be revising and you won't listen anyway...

  • Gareth.de #315 7 years ago

    Well, frankly, I've got better things to do than argue about
    something which will have no effect on my real life
    whatsoever when I should be revising and you won't listen
    anyway...

    LOL. Sounds like the words of a defeated fanboy to me.

    Come on, I'll listen. I'm all ears, seriously. PLEASE tell me how they're going to do it. I'm sure the whole world would like to know - Sony and MS especially, since it's costing them millions. If they only knew the things Nintendo does about how to save 300 quid per console...

    How much do you think this information would be worth to them? A pretty penny I'll bet.

    So come on, spill the beans. How are they going to do it?

  • skybluesam86 #316 7 years ago

    How
    about this? Because ATi makes graphics cards and IBM makes
    CPUs.

    Yes, well done. You are aware of their roles.

    But how does that in any way counter his argument?

  • Gareth.de #317 7 years ago

    I'll start doing my Victory Dance now, shall I?

  • Gareth.de #318 7 years ago

    Yes, well done. You are aware of their
    roles.

    But how does that in any way counter his argument?

    LOL. He's comparing Microsoft's relationship with IBM to Nintendo's with ATI and asking why Nintendo wouldn't get a good deal on hardware.

    Since the hardware in question is the CPU, it seems a little odd that he would mention a relationship Nintendo has with a graphics chip manufacturer, don't you think?

    Looks like the shite of yesterday is about to start up again.

    Funnily enough, it's starting as you entered the conversation...
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 11:04

  • skybluesam86 #319 7 years ago

    Tell me and I will draw you a
    diagram.

    Please do. I'd like to see that.

  • Gareth.de #320 7 years ago

    So shithead, are you going to take a stab at explaining how Nintendo is going to make this apparently uber-powerful console of theirs profitable at 150 quid?

    I'm curious to see just how much bullshit you can throw at it.

  • Gareth.de #321 7 years ago

    Please do.
    I'd like to see that.

    Stop wasting my time and answer my question - how will Nintendo do it?

  • skybluesam86 #322 7 years ago

    I'll give you a clue - it rhymes
    with "ducked".

    Gareth in non-swear SHOCKAH!

  • Gareth.de #323 7 years ago

    Gareth in non-swear SHOCKAH!

    Ok you obviously have nothing more useful to say. I think I have the game, set and match.

    // Does the Victory Dance. Woohoo!

  • skybluesam86 #324 7 years ago

    Well I STILL don't see any posts
    explaining how Nintendo is going to make a powerful console
    for 150 quid... wanna have a go

    Alright - they managed it with the Cube. That was easily as powerful as other consoles, generally accepted to be moreso than the PS2, and marginally less so than the XBox.
    It launched at around £150, I don't remember exactly.

  • skybluesam86 #325 7 years ago

    He's
    comparing Microsoft's relationship with IBM to Nintendo's
    with ATI and asking why Nintendo wouldn't get a good deal on
    hardware

    No. He was comparing Nintendo's relationship with both of them.

  • Gareth.de #326 7 years ago

    generally accepted to be moreso than the PS2

    Wrong again. Do you ever learn you dozy bastard?

    Even one of your fanboy friends admitted the PS2 is more powerful just a few posts up, and with some extra effort will yield more technically impressive results.

    and marginally less so than the XBox

    No, I can safely say after running both machines side-by-side, that the Xbox is significantly more powerful in this area. Frame-rate and effects piss all over the humble GC from a substantial height.

    Awwwwww, and you tried so so hard. :(

    It launched at around £150, I don't remember exactly.

    Aren't they going for DVD playback and wireless gaming this time round? You won't be getting that as cheap as the Cube, amigo.

    Try again. Less bullshit next time if you can please.

  • Gareth.de #327 7 years ago

    No. He was comparing
    Nintendo's relationship with both of them.

    No he wasn't!!! And even if he was, what the fuck is the point? Is it going to magically account for how Nintendo is going to produce this wonder-console for 150 quid when it's going to cost the other 2 companies well over 300?

    Dickhead.
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 11:15

  • Gareth.de #328 7 years ago

    Come on, explain to me how they are going to do it.

    Which part of the word EXPLAIN do you not understand?

    You're the dullest fucker on this board. Even worse than gerg actually.

  • gerg #329 7 years ago

    First of all, the GC IS more powerful than the PS2. Secondly, no one knows yet whether the DVD attachment for the Revolution will be sold seperately or not, and thirdly, DVD players are much, much cheaper than they used to be four years ago.

  • Gareth.de #330 7 years ago

    1.
    Nintendo must appeal to more people - namely adults as they
    are the ones with the cash - by providing more mature
    games.

    2. Nintendo cannot produce hardware at the same
    level as the PS3 and Xbox 360 for 150 quid and make a
    profit. It's not possible.

    Agree? Disagree?

    ANSWER.

  • skybluesam86 #331 7 years ago

    Aren't they going for DVD
    playback and wireless gaming this time round? You won't be
    getting that as cheap as the Cube, amigo.

    Yes, yes they are.

    Do you know how cheap DVD drives are these days? It's not going to significantly raise costs.
    As for Wi-Fi, that's going to be standard across all next-gen platforms and so the effects will be largely unnoticeable as they'll affect every one.

  • Gareth.de #332 7 years ago

    Gerg you thick cunt, the PS2 IS more powerful than the GC. Only slightly yes, but it is. I'm not saying this to be a pest - I'm saying it because it's true.

    More than a few developers have stated that with some extra work they WILL get the best results from the PS2.

    I don't like it any more than you do - the PS2 is the most hyped up stack of shit of the century, and I don't own one for this reason. But it IS more powerful than the Cube - even your fanboy friend admitted it up the board. Take a look you ponse.

  • skybluesam86 #333 7 years ago

    1.
    Nintendo must appeal to more people - namely adults as
    they
    are the ones with the cash - by providing more
    mature
    games.

    2. Nintendo cannot produce hardware at the
    same
    level as the PS3 and Xbox 360 for 150 quid and make
    a
    profit. It's not possible.

    1. You have a point there. However, mature games are not the only way to appeal. Nintendo are quite clearly looking to untapped market areas.

    2. You're assuming that they're going to sell it cheap. Are they not allowed to have a powerful machine and sell it at a higher price? Or does that ruin all your hard work?

  • Gareth.de #334 7 years ago

    As for Wi-Fi, that's going to be
    standard across all next-gen platforms and so the effects
    will be largely unnoticeable as they'll affect every one.

    Yes, but while the others have already acknowledged they'll be making a LOSS on the hardware if it sells for 300 quid, how the fuck do you suggest Nintendo is going to make a profit on half of that?

    EXPLAIN YOU THICK BASTARD.

  • skybluesam86 #335 7 years ago

    Nintendo have never said they'll be selling at a profit though.

    You're assuming that based on what's happened in the past.

    There are so many assumptions in your arguments, it's unbelievable.
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 11:26

  • Gareth.de #336 7 years ago

    However, mature games are not the only way to
    appeal.

    Which is why I said you need a balance, like the other 2 companies have. They have kiddie games AND mature ones.

    Are you this stupid deliberately?

    Nintendo are quite clearly looking to untapped market areas.

    Hmm, no... looks like the only market they're looking at is the Pikachu and Mario fans.

    You're assuming that they're going to sell it cheap.

    Well it's the only way they're going to shift consoles when sat next to the other 2...

    I bet you anything they sell it cheaper than the other 2.

  • Gareth.de #337 7 years ago

    Nintendo have never said they'll be selling at a profit
    though.

    You're assuming that based on what's happened in
    the past.

    I was hoping someone would say this. ;)

    As in the link one of you gaylords supplied me with yesterday, Sony has electronics, movies and music to help cover any costs in the console market.

    MS has Windows and Office to help offset losses they make in its console market.

    Nintendo has game hardware and... game software. And fuck-all else.

    So you're now telling me that Nintendo is going to sell their hardware at a LOSS like the other 2 companies?

    Hmmm, I wouldn't go making comments like that if I were you, as that would mean their ONLY source of income would be handhelds and console games.

    Look at the link from yesterday. Even a Nintendo-biased website like that one details rather well the fact that Nintendo MUST make money on hardware AND software as it does not have the cash-cows of its competitors.
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 11:29

  • Gareth.de #338 7 years ago

    // Does the Victory Dance again.

  • gerg #339 7 years ago

    Here are specs:

    Gamecube -

    405Mhz IBM Gekko
    203Mhz ArtX Flipper
    24 Mb

    Playstation 2 -

    300Mhz Toshiba Emotion Engine
    147Mhz Sony GS
    32 Mb

  • Gareth.de #340 7 years ago

    Gamecube -

    405Mhz IBM Gekko
    203Mhz
    ArtX Flipper
    24 Mb

    Playstation 2 -

    300Mhz Toshiba
    Emotion Engine
    147Mhz Sony GS
    32 Mb

    And your point is? Those specs mean fuck all. An Athlon running at 2ghz will outperform a Pentium running at 2.5ghz in the real world.

    Listing specs like that is pointless. Developers couldn't give a fuck about specification sheets - it's real-world performance that they care about because this is what Joe Public is going to see on their console at home, and the real-world performance of PS2 IS better than that of the Cube.

    Listing those specs has just proven to me you know absolutely fuck all about any of this.

  • skybluesam86 #341 7 years ago

    But real-world performance is exactly what neither MS or Sony have quoted as yet, and you still think they'll be sooooo much more powerful.

  • Gareth.de #342 7 years ago

    Look dickhead, no matter how much you want it to be true, Nintendo is not going to match the power of 300-400 quid consoles with a 150 console. It just isn't going to happen. They're not even trying to as they have fucking said themselves they're not trying to compete against them on their own terms - they want to offer GAMES instead of raw power.

    Every fucker knows this, so why are you being such a dick?

  • Gareth.de #343 7 years ago

    And before you jump on the bandwagon and say "ah so Nintendo are going to focus on games and not hardware so they will have better games" or some other bullshit that would be so typical of you, it's pointless to have good games if they are all kiddie ones and fuck all mature ones.

    They need a BALANCE.

    Look the fucking word up because you obviously have no idea what it means.

  • Gareth.de #344 7 years ago

    How old are you? You give the impression you're even younger than gerg. At least gerg knows when he's beaten and fucks off for a while. You just keep coming back for more like some kinda submissive little bitch.

  • Gareth.de #345 7 years ago

    You keep insisting that the Revolution will be as powerful as the other 2, but I ask you this - HOW???

    How the blue fuck are they going to supply this hardware at a cost which that will be LOWER than the other 2 AND make the profit that they so desperately need due to the fact that they have no other cash-cows like the other 2 companies???

    HOW you fuckwit???

    TELL ME!

  • skybluesam86 #346 7 years ago

    And how old are you? Judging by your command of th English language I'd guess at around 7.

    I'm well aware that Nintendo have said they're going to do that, but you seem intent on knocking them for it, so I'm playing Devil's Advocate here.

  • gerg #347 7 years ago

    The thing is: I'M NOT BEATEN!!!

    Your argument is based around three things:

    Assumptions
    Swearing &
    Over Simplifying Reality
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 11:55

  • Gareth.de #348 7 years ago

    I'm well aware that Nintendo have said they're going to do that

    Well stop being such a cocksucker then yea? If you already know that what I'm saying is true then what is the point? Are you a spaz?

    but you seem intent on knocking them for it

    Not at all. I am intent on making you see sense and stop bullshitting me. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a cheaper console - in fact it's a marketing strategy and there's nothing at all wrong with it.

    What IS wrong though is that dipshits like you come here trying to tell me that it's going to be as powerful as the other 2, when it obviously is not going to be. It can't be. The whole reason of the others costing what they will is because they will feature more advanced hardware.

    so I'm playing Devil's Advocate here.

    Nah, you're just being gay.

  • Gareth.de #349 7 years ago

    The thing is: I'M NOT BEATEN!!!

    Ah so you're ready to explain how Nintendo will make a console just as powerful as the other 2 for half the price?

    Go on then, I'm all ears.

    I'll listen, seriously.

    Go for it, right now.

  • gerg #350 7 years ago

    I've already explained how they can do along with around 3 other people. You are just intent on not listening to it with your Jo Public and assumptions.

  • Gareth.de #351 7 years ago

    No, tell me how they can make the console so cheaply.

    Explain to me why IBM and all the other hardware manufacturers involved are going to supply Nintendo with hardware at least 300 quid cheaper per machine than Sony and MS have been able to get it for.

    OR!!!!

    The alternative is simply that Nintendo is going for a less powerful setup so that they can sell cheaper than their competitors, making the console more attractive to the average Jo on a budget.

    Which one do you think is most realistic arsehole?
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 12:04

  • Gareth.de #352 7 years ago

    Jesus, I'm doing this Victory Dance so much lately my feet are getting sore. :D

  • skybluesam86 #353 7 years ago

    Maybe it'll make you sit down and shut up then.

  • mattigan #354 7 years ago

    Bloody hell! are you still going at it! Give it a rest FF sake!!

  • Gareth.de #355 7 years ago

    Maybe it'll make you sit down and shut up then.

    And stop kicking your arse? Awww I can't do that now can I? ;)

  • gerg #356 7 years ago

    This article holds a compromise... A good ending...

    http://cube.ign.com/mail/
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 12:40

  • Shadar #357 7 years ago

    I found a great article that you should read, Gareth. And you say that I put words in your mouth? You just twisted around all my arguments to suit your perception of why I am wrong. That does not a valid argument make.

    Oh, and the exam went fine, thank you.

    http:// www.scottberkun.com/essays/essay40.htm
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 12:44

  • Gareth.de #358 7 years ago

    Nice article. I quote: But of course the Big N continues to do its own thing and -- yes, sure enough -- it continues to make a profit.

    Unfortunate though that he 'forgets' to add that it continues to lose market share.

    Look, why are you fuckers being so defensive? I don't want Nintendo to dwindle into nothing. Why the fuck would I be spending so much time here if I didn't care about Nintendo?

    I am not simply airing my personal views either - the fact that market share continues to fall demonstrates that the market as a whole is not finding what it wants on a Nintendo console.

    Yes you do. Yes gerg does. Yes Blue Wanker does. And yes so do all the other fanboys, but your numbers are dwindling over time.

    Nintendo cannot survive making games that only fanboys want to play.

    They have to broaden their appeal. It's called business sense.

  • gerg #359 7 years ago

    All I want to know is that will you agree that you were half wrong?

  • Gareth.de #360 7 years ago

    Perhaps a bigger problem still is that third party games sell worse and worse on Nintendo platforms, which have in recent years become so targeted to die-hard Nintendo fans who mainly want Nintendo-developed games. As a result, more and more third parties have abandoned for Microsoft and Sony, which has a huge impact on overall hardware sales.

    It even says so on your fucking site.

    Why then, do you still fail to admit it?

    They HAVE to broaden their appeal you gimp.

  • gerg #361 7 years ago

    Fine, so tehy have to broaden their appeal - although many 20-somethings still enjoy their games. But is also shows a completely plausible way for the Nintendo Revolution to be cheap and have the same graphics as other next gen consoles. Half right, half wrong - a comprimise (sp?).

  • Gareth.de #362 7 years ago

    Half wrong? About what exactly?

    I said Nintendo can't make a console as powerful as the PS3 or the 360 for 150 quid.

    I think you will find that to be true.

    I said Nintendo has to broaden its appeal and make more mature games that will appeal to a larger market, and not just you fucking fanboys.

    And I was right again.

    It even says so on that link you gave me - http://cube.ign.com/mail/

    You're such a gimp, seriously.

  • gerg #363 7 years ago

    No, on the site it says (and I quote):

    "Thing is, Revolution is also on track to ship a year after Xbox 360 and what we also know about technology is that as time passes, it eventually gets smaller -- and without a sacrifice in power. Look at the original PlayStation versus Sony's redesigned unit. Or take the original Game Boy versus Game Boy Advance; despite being more powerful, the latter unit is actually smaller. This is something that time permits. And frankly, there's no reason why -- given an extra year development time -- Revolution can't be just as powerful than Xbox 360 and still be smaller."

  • Gareth.de #364 7 years ago

    A deeper evaluation of the company's fortunes and mind share would show that its command of the console market from the early 90s has dramatically decreased. Worse, it would also show that Nintendo loses more and more market share every generation, while both Sony and Microsoft gain it.

    More of what I've been saying all along...

    Why the fuck did you give me this link? It supports exactly what I'VE been saying all along.

    You seriously shot yourself in the foot there didn't you?

  • gerg #365 7 years ago

    Although it may prove one of your TWO points right, it also destroys the other.

  • Gareth.de #366 7 years ago

    Some of these powerful components can be fairly large and obviously generate a good amount of heat. Revolution seems to ignore these truths, which suggests that Nintendo may be less concerned with extremely powerful (as well as potentially large and hot) internal hardware and more focused on delivering what company president Satoru Iwata describes as a quiet, small and affordable console.

    LOL. Even more of what I've been saying all along...

    They then state though that technology gets smaller and smaller with time, and use the PS1 vs. PSone size difference to illustrate.

    There's a problem there. The time difference between PS1 and PSone was 4 or 5 years - NOT one!!!!!!!

    The technology inside Xbox will certainly not be small enough to fit inside a Revolution's box within a year, and it will most definately not be cheap enough to sell for 150 and make a profit.

    It's possible. But honestly, I don't think this is a high priority for Nintendo. As we've all seen, it continues to de-emphasize the role technology in Revolution.

    Yep, exactly as I've been saying.

    // Does the Victory Dance at hyper-speed and flicks the V at the fanboys.

  • Stickman #367 7 years ago

    For the love of all things holy, STOP!!

  • gerg #368 7 years ago

    No, it proves my point right. It says that it's possible, just not of too high imortance. Nintendo may be less concerned with sizea nd power, but can do it none-the less.

  • Gareth.de #369 7 years ago

    there is no reason - random mid
    sentence phrase - why the Revolution can't be just as
    powerful than Xbox 360 and still be smaller.

    Yea maybe if it wants to be launched 4/5 years after the 360!!!

    But apparently they only have a year longer, right?

    LOL. Ffs you fanboys never cease to amaze me.

    "Hey, let's ignore the concept of time and make it seem like the Revolution can cram in 400 quid's worth of cutting-edge gear into a tiny box and sell for 150 quid and make a profit ALL WITHIN ONE YEAR!!!"

    LOL.

    The entertainment value of reading your posts is classic.
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 13:09

  • Gareth.de #370 7 years ago

    If technology progressed that quickly - quick enough to fit all that shit into the Revolution AND sell it at 150 for a profit within a single YEAR then we'd all be playing games on a fucking holo-deck within 5 years.

    You muppet!!!

  • Gareth.de #371 7 years ago

    For the love of all things holy, STOP!!

    Hey man, welcome to the party. Take a seat and grab a beer. ;)

  • gerg #372 7 years ago

    You split the sentence up. You really are a troll.The original sentence was: there is no reason - random mid sentence phrase - why the revolution can't...

  • Gareth.de #373 7 years ago

    Whether I split the sentence up or not is fucking irrelevant - the technology will STILL NOT BE ABLE TO FIT IN A FUCKING REVOLUTION BOX AND SELL FOR A PROFIT FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER GENERATION.

    Dickhead.

  • Gareth.de #374 7 years ago

    I can split it up, put it back together, reverse it, turn it upside down - none of it matters. They STILL won't be able to make a machine of that power, fit it into that box and sell it for 150 quid.

    No. Matter. How. Much. Of. A. Wanker. You. Are.

  • Gareth.de #375 7 years ago

    Fuck off out of my face, gerg.

    You're embarassing yourself here.

  • gerg #376 7 years ago

    No, you twist sentences. TROLL

  • Gareth.de #377 7 years ago

    Dickhead, I answered the sentence as though it was full. What I copy there is just to show what I am talking with reference to. I've edited the post to include YOUR quote and it STILL makes sense.

    I take it back. You're a duller fucker than Blue Gay.

  • Gareth.de #378 7 years ago

    Whatever the fuck the sentense says is irrelevant anyway. I can edit it again if you want and make it look even more favourable for Nintendo, but the fact will remain that they simply will not be able to match the power of the other 2 consoles for that price.

    No fucking chance.

    Just accept it and get your dick out of Nintendo's backside.

  • Gareth.de #379 7 years ago

    I would have thought one of your lovers would have told you to give up by now. You're obviously trying to flog a dead horse here.

    Nintendo is going to focus on a lower-cost console, just as they do in the handheld market. They will want to avoid direct competition with the other manufacturers (which they have already said themselves you wanker) and so will NOT be releasing a console at the same price level.

    It will be cheaper.

    Since it's cheaper, it will feature slightly less powerful hardware.

    Dickhead.

  • Gareth.de #380 7 years ago

    // Invents a new Victory Dance cos the old one is getting too repetitive now.

  • Gareth.de #381 7 years ago

    Again from your own link:

    It's almost unfortunate, I think, that Nintendo's approach works so well in the short term. You can see the strategy in motion. Game Boy. Game Boy Color. Game Boy Advance. Game Boy Advance SP. Nintendo DS. Game Boy Micro. Six major revisions of what is essentially tech more than a decade old and every time it sells like hotcakes. It's all so cheaply manufactured, which means that Nintendo can easily make a profit -- oftentimes, a massive one. As a result, Nintendo refuses to change.

    This is EXACTLY how they are approaching the Revolution.

    You KNOW I'm right, as do your other gay fanboy friends who have long-since deserted you and fucked off.

  • Gareth.de #382 7 years ago

    Short term profits. But if Nintendo continues to lose more and more market share where consoles are concerned, will there come a time when its reach is too insignificant to sustain profitability?

    Yep, what I've been saying allllllllllllllllllll along. If this fanboy can see it, why can't you?

    I guess you're just a spaz, browsing this site as you're transported from one home to the next in your green bus.

  • Gareth.de #383 7 years ago

    Got any more fanboy links that support everything I've been saying, gimp?

  • gerg #384 7 years ago

    Hey, at least I gave an honorable fight. You swearing doesn't make you look big, just like a troll. You use lame excuses like 'your gay' to rebuttle my argument. So just shut up, and take a course in debating, becuase I don't care what you think, you know that? To me, your argument still has plenty of loopholes.

  • gerg #385 7 years ago

    You just said IGN was a fanboy link? You honestly don't know what you're talking about.

  • Gareth.de #386 7 years ago

    Hey, at least I gave an honorable fight. You swearing
    doesn't make you look big, just like a troll. You use lame
    excuses like 'your gay' to rebuttle my argument.

    Hahaha, who gives a fuck what language I use?

    I took on at least 5 Nintendo fanboys and kicked ALL of your fucking arses.

    I beat you like I was your father with a leather belt.

    I could practically HEAR you squealing like a pig with its foot stuck in a trap.

    To me, your argument still has plenty of loopholes.

    Yea but as you have demonstrated you are incapable of comprehending fact, business sense, business strategy, history and common sense, I'm not at all surprised.

  • Gareth.de #387 7 years ago

    You honestly don't know what you're talking about.

    No, YOU dont.

    You think Nintendo can put together a console for 300 quid LESS than Sony and MS with at least the same amount of power.

    You completely ignore the fact that Nintendo HAS to make money on its hardware AND software.

    You again ignore the fact that Sony and MS can afford to lose money on their hardware.

    You ALSO ignore the fact that Nintendo themselves has already said they do not wish to compete with Sony and MS on their terms - which is fucking telling you that they will NOT be putting out a console with the same raw power.

    You're such a wanker. You were obviously devoid of oxygen for over 3 minutes during birth.

  • Gareth.de #388 7 years ago

    Come on bitch, have another go. Just 5 more posts (4 after this one) to reach 400!

    Come on, post another message full of shit for me to shoot it down like a fucking RAF fighter pilot.

  • skybluesam86 #389 7 years ago

    They have to
    broaden their appeal. It's called business sense.

    Business sense is doing what you know works. That is what Nintendo are doing.

    *sigh* I don't know why I bother...

  • Gareth.de #390 7 years ago

    Woohoo another full-of-shit post for me to shoot down! What fun!

    Business sense is doing what you know works.
    That is what Nintendo are doing.

    So it's their business plan to lose market share year on year???

    Hmm let's take a look!!

    Whether it says so publicly or not, Nintendo is not happy being number three in the console market.

    Ooops! Looks like you were wrong again!!! lol.

    *sigh* I don't know why I bother...

    Yea, when you post such utter SHITE, I dunno either to be honest...

  • skybluesam86 #391 7 years ago

    The time difference between PS1 and PSone was 4 or 5 years -
    NOT one!!!!!!!

    Because releasing the PSOne only a year after the PS would destroy the entire point of it - to milk it long after it should've died.
    That's the only reason the PSOne exists.

  • Gareth.de #392 7 years ago

    Come on, post something else, dickhead!!

    You can even have post #400 - that's how much of a nice guy I am.

    I'm waiting for you. :D

  • Gareth.de #393 7 years ago

    Because releasing the PSOne only a year after the PS would destroy the entire point of it - to milk it long after it should've died. That's the only reason the PSOne exists.

    Awwww you posted before I did. Now I have post #400 :oP

    I think you'll find that it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to make the PSone a year after the PS1 was released - advances in processor design and heat control were not enough to squeeze everything into a box that much smaller.

    You're so lame, I actually pity you.

    If you were my son however, I'd put you up for adoption.

  • skybluesam86 #394 7 years ago

    Hahaha, who gives a fuck what language I
    use?

    Most intelligent people, I should imagine. An argument works so much better if it's intelligently constructed, rather than a string of words interspesed with expletives.

  • Gareth.de #395 7 years ago

    Most intelligent people, I should imagine. An argument works so much better if it's intelligently constructed, rather than a string of words interspesed with expletives.

    Considering I kicked all of your arses until they were black and blue, I don't think the language I use is of any consequence.

    Here's food for thought though: if my arguments had been constructed better (according to you anyway), just IMAGINE how badly I'd have kicked your arse with each and every post if I managed to do it anyway with swearing.

    Quite impressive isn't it?

    You can join my mailing list if you like.

  • skybluesam86 #396 7 years ago

    Well I'm damn glad you're not related to me. I'd be happy to be up for adoption if I was.

    I'd still be stuck with retard genes though from you if I were.

  • Gareth.de #397 7 years ago

    I'd still be stuck with
    retard genes though from you if I were.

    Oh, you're already RIDDLED with those, man... like a cancer.

  • skybluesam86 #398 7 years ago

    Oh go on, please do it.

    Please, just once, construct a proper argument, in proper english.

    Then maybe your point may be taken a little more seriously.

  • Gareth.de #399 7 years ago

    At the end of the day though, the language used to portray an idea or opinion is irrelevant. The fact is that I kicked your fucking arses - each and every one of you dreamers - into the ground. And why?

    Because as fanboys you choose to simply ignore FACTS and COMMON SENSE.

    Let this be a lesson to you, you little prick.

    // Dances the Victory Dance for the rest of the day.

  • Gareth.de #400 7 years ago

    Oh and by the way, when I did post a message with no swearing and a simple invitation for you to disagree, you absolutely FAILED to offer anything.

    You failed like you will fail in life.

    Check it out:


    All 100+ of my posts can be summed up right here:

    1.
    Nintendo must appeal to more people - namely adults as they
    are the ones with the cash - by providing more mature
    games.

    2. Nintendo cannot produce hardware at the same
    level as the PS3 and Xbox 360 for 150 quid and make a
    profit. It's not possible.

    Either you agree with me here and consequentally admit that I was right all along, or you disagree, in which case you must offer reasons and evidence.

    But you CAN'T.

    Instead, all you can do is spout the same old fanboy horseshit over and over again like a broken fucking record.

    LAME.

  • skybluesam86 #401 7 years ago

    And all you do is spout the same old trolling rubbish.

    This has been very circular for well over 200 posts now.

  • Gareth.de #402 7 years ago

    Anyway, it's been very pleasing hammering you into the ground and watching you squirm like a pathetic little worm.

    It's never good being a fanboy you know - something Nintendo fans will never learn I guess.

    You should look at what each platform offers objectively, and decide from there which is best for you.

    Not simply wank over whatever plastic Nintendo releases cos it just happens to have a Nintendo badge on it, make up facts about it (like saying the Cube is more powerful than the PS2 - pffffffft) and claim the kiddie games it has are enough to please mature gamers.

    I'll still be getting a Revolution when it comes out, for the simple fact that it is sure to have some great exclusives for it, plus the fact that it can play my Cube games without any slowdown. The Cube will be on eBay where I'm sure it will go for the price of the postage stamps that it will take to send it.

    For real cutting edge performance and services though, I'll be getting one of the other consoles as my main, mainstream device.

  • Gareth.de #403 7 years ago

    And all you do is spout the same old trolling
    rubbish.

    This has been very circular for well over 200
    posts now.

    So prove me wrong and TELL ME YOU FUCKING MORON, how Nintendo will do as you say.

    Which is release a console as powerful as the other 2.

    Tell me now and end all of this.

  • Gareth.de #404 7 years ago

    What the fuck are you waiting for? A written invitation?

  • Gareth.de #405 7 years ago

    Since YESTERDAY I have been waiting for one of you lame fuckers to tell me HOW Nintendo could POSSIBLY make a console so cheaply to rival the others in performance.

    And ALL you have been able to do is spout the same bullshit over and over, lick each other's arseholes, and post links to websites that back up EVERYTHING that I'm saying!!!

    Doesn't that at all strike you as being lame?

    You truly are a waste of spunk.

  • Kengro #406 7 years ago

    Where the fuck does ppl find nintendo and sony's cash reserves... Sony have a huge!!! debt, nintendo's cash reserves are less than ms earns in one year...If this war can be won by putting on the lowest price, there's no doubt who will be the winner... Ms got the cash to maintain a low price for a very long period of time, neither sony or nintendo can do that. For them it will be sucidal to sell with a loss for a long time

  • Gareth.de #407 7 years ago

    Hey Kengro, welcome to the board. ;)

    Nice to see someone with some sense.

  • gerg #408 7 years ago

    But Gareth.de, I'm sure you've realised by now that whenever we say something which ahs been supposedly said before, you give us an answer which has been repeated since teh beginning. And maybe I would be more inclined to not disagree if you weren't a swearing troll. If you had constructed a proper argument in a proper manner, maybe I could reach a point where I say: 'Fair game here, I agree' - yet all your insults and swearing definately put me off.

  • Gareth.de #409 7 years ago

    But Gareth.de, I'm sure you've realised by now that whenever
    we say something which ahs been supposedly said before, you
    give us an answer which has been repeated since teh
    beginning.

    EXACTLY!!! How many times do I have to tell you the same fucking thing before it sinks in, fuckwit???

    And maybe I would be more inclined to not disagree if you weren't a swearing troll.

    Well that's just being a prick. If I'm right then I'm right, whatever my language is like.

    Besides, my language wouldn't have been this bad if you hand't been such a complete mong for the entire duration of the argument with your fanboy shite.

    If you had been objective, realistic and honest then I'd have shown you some more respect. But I just can't show anyone respect if they're a dick.

    If you had constructed a proper argument in a proper manner, maybe I could reach a point where I say: 'Fair game here, I agree' - yet all your insults and swearing definately put me off.

    Same again. If I'm right then I'm right.

    And I'm right, so kiss it -----> (_!_)

  • gerg #410 7 years ago

    But what you don't realise is if you criticise us for repating an argument, why are you suddenly 'out of bounds'. And about next-gen. You THINK you're right. Come the end of this year, when all the specs for each console are release, if your prediction turns out to be correct, you're right, but up until taht moment - you THINK you're right. You also THINK you know a lot of things, but I bet your rude mind that you don't.

  • Gareth.de #411 7 years ago

    But what you don't realise is if you criticise us for repating an argument, why are you suddenly 'out of bounds'.

    Well what the fuck do you expect? If some mong doesn't understand a point I make the first time round, I have to make it again in a simpler way.

    If that mong STILL doesn't understand, or persists in spouting shit that obviously isn't true, then I'll have to repeat myself again in a MORE simplified way.

    If you don't want me to have to bang information through your thick head, then don't have a thick head in the first place eh?

    Simple really.

    And about next-gen. You THINK you're right.

    Nope, I know I am. Even your site confirms everything I have already said. It's common sense that Nintendo will make a cheaper console with less impressive insides.

    I tell you what. Are you confident enough that you are right and I am wrong to bet on it? Cos I am. How much? Twenty quid?

    I think you'll find I know a fuck of a lot more than you do, kid.

  • gerg #412 7 years ago

    We're going round in circles. Goodbye - if you want to spend any more time argueing for the sake of argueing, go ahead..... LOSER

  • Gareth.de #413 7 years ago

    I've lost nothing. I've kicked your stupid little arse every time my fingers have touched my keyboard.

    And all of your gay little friends.

    You've finally learned that you're wrong and are fucking off to change your nappy - good riddance.

    // Dances the night away like a true hero that has taken on the sheer number of Nintendo fanboys and won.

    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 14:39

  • gerg #414 7 years ago

    Oh, and one more thing, the world isn't simple. You can't make it all balck and white. That's why your argument falls to bits. The world is very complicated. Being successful is not just about market share, it's about overall profit, your appeal and many more things. Thus, you can't simplify it down, becuase you leave out important factors...

  • Gareth.de #415 7 years ago

    Market share continues to fall, and with it so do profits.

    The very website link you sent me confirms all of this and also a LOT more.

    Did you even read it youself before you sent me the link you little cocksuck?

    Explain to me how Nintendo can continue to make a profit when the day finally comes when they have 0 market share and I'll make you a gold medal.
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 14:44

  • Gareth.de #416 7 years ago

    Include all the factors you want. If you're a company and no-one is buying your stuff and everyone instead buys from your competitors, you're fucked.

    All the fanboys in the world can stick their little cocks up Nintendo's arse at the same time if they want, but they STILL won't be making enough profit to survive unless they start recapturing some of the market they have lost to Sony and MS.

    You know I'm right and you've even said that if I hadn't sworn that you would have agreed with me.

    What a loser you are. I bet your parents are ashamed of you.

    Bye shithead.
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/05 @ 14:45

  • Genji #417 7 years ago

    No, don't say goodbye! We need to get this thread past 500 posts! You can do it!

  • Gareth.de #418 7 years ago

    But the fanboys have left :(

    Maybe we could play i-spy or something for 90 posts? ;)

  • Shadar #419 7 years ago

    I'm still here ... I haven't really followed the "discussion" since I linked to that essay on argumentative techniques vs actually being right.

    Care to sum it up for me?

  • gerg #420 7 years ago

    Nothing much has happened, Shadar. Gareth.de using the article I linked to in his argument, splitting the sentences up, trying to win. I say that I think I was half right and half wrong (i.e. I'm correct on one argument - about the Revolution and he's right on the fact that there aren't enough amture games), but he doesn't listen. He writes loads on a victory dance, about how he won from the start of the argument yesterday etc., naturally being a troll, until we get to here... he's the only one left - sad and funnmy at the same time.

  • Gareth.de #421 7 years ago

    Hahaha you're so pathetic you silly little fucker.

    What ACTUALLY happened is this:

    gerg supplied a link that was supposedly going to show that he was right. Unfortunately, it backed up absolutely everything I said and made him look a complete twat.

    It stated that Nintendo's ethos is to use cheaper hardware and re-skin it like the 6 different gameboys we've already had, as they just keep making money from both hardware and software this way.

    They also don't have the money to throw at taking risks with hardware.

    It also said Nintendo must make money from hardware and software alike as they have no cash-cows like the other firms.

    It also noted how they are losing market share because they keep making games for their own fans and are losing the more mainstream user to Sony and Microsoft.

    Despite all of this, despite the fact that it contradicts what he's been saying, the DULL FUCKER still insists that he was somehow right.

    He then stated that had I not sworn and used abuse that he would have agreed with me, and he had decided not to because he didn't like my use of language.

    What a complete LOSER. I've stepped on better things.

    But PLEASE, don't take my word for it - take a look for yourself: http://cube.ign.com/mail/

    The area he was especially proud of was down the bottom. Quite why, fuck knows, as it simply states everything I've been trying to drum into you thick fuckers for two days.

    He truly is a waste of skin.
    Edited by 2 at 03/06/05 @ 21:42

  • Burton2000 #422 7 years ago

    yeah lets just play i spy for the next 70 posts to make it 500

    and

    Chances are Nintendo wont make Revolution as powerful as the competitors say there consoles will be i admit that as nintendo will b needing to make profit.But the 1 year gap and depending on prices of chips sets etc. makes the diference of how Revolution will look compared to PS3 and Xbox360.

    and another thing is if its extremely hard and time consuming to develop on PS3 and Xbox 360 will we see as many of the games that do look as good as the killzone 2 trailer.Like it is with CUBE and PS2 PS2 is powerfuler but to make it look better than cube it requiers extra work and more time.

    and just one thing gareth.de you said nintendo need to expand there appeal to more mature gamers. I agree they do need to do that and nintendo them selves have sed they are trying to get rid of there kiddie image thats y they are having games like killer 7 on the cube.But another way of expanding there appeal is by apealing to non gamers which is what they are trying to do with the DS.
    Edited by 2 at 03/06/05 @ 22:33

  • gerg #423 7 years ago

    Burton2000: I think you mean:... DID with the DS. Nintendogs sold massives, and at the time of release boosted up sales of the DS to more than taht of the PSP and PS2 combined.... Nintendo struck gold. :)

  • Burton2000 #424 7 years ago

    yaeh i didnt say has done with the ds as nintendogs hasnt launched in europe or american yet.

  • abeit #425 7 years ago

    Gareth.de has revolutionised this website man.
    Whether you hate him ot love he has set up arguements which are genuinely cool.

  • gerg #426 7 years ago

    I don't think arguing is cool. I would rather have an ally than an enemy.

  • Gareth.de #427 7 years ago

    Chances are Nintendo wont make Revolution as powerful as the competitors say there consoles will be i admit that as nintendo will b needing to make profit.

    So why the fuck give me such a hard time for saying this originally?

    But the 1 year gap and depending on prices of chips sets etc. makes the
    diference of how Revolution will look compared to PS3 and Xbox360.

    It will close the gap yes, but not to the degree that they will be on equal terms. The Revolution will be 3rd in outright raw power. The qualty of games is another issue, and one that doesn't enter this debate. As for power though, Revo will be 3rd.

    and another thing is if its extremely hard and time consuming to develop on PS3 and Xbox 360 will we see as many of the games that do look as good as the killzone 2 trailer.

    Erm, Sony has stated that they have made the PS3 shitloads easier to develop for than the PS2. They have acknowledged that developing for the PS2 was a headache for most developers.

    MS on the other hand have DirectX, Direct3D and XNA - trust me, the 360 will not be difficult to develop for. MS has the software tools to make it as easy as kicking a fanboy's arse on a games forum.

    Like it is with CUBE and PS2 PS2 is powerfuler but to make it look better than cube it requiers extra work

    Hmmm where have I heard that before? Ah yes, it's what I told YOU guys and then YOU denied it.

    Laughable.

    and just one thing gareth.de you said nintendo need to expand there appeal to more mature gamers. I agree they do

    About fucking time!!!!!

    I don't think arguing is cool. I would rather have an ally than an enemy.

    Make up your mind, gerg. Aren't you the same guy who yesterday posted this?

    You wont make an ally out of me for some time...

    Fuck sakes. See what I have to deal with here?

  • Kengro #428 7 years ago

    The next gen war won't be won on power... Most tvset's won't be able to use all that power, there will be other things that will settle the scores.

    Software: It will make it easyer and cheaper to produce games, the smallest developers will go for the cheapest console to work with

    Money: Who can sell the console cheapest, not all that are getting a console is buying it themselves, xmas and dad's wallet are two big words here...

    I hope that we get 3 big console makers... We as customers will be the one that are the ones that will serve, then they will fight like hell... And give us the best prices

  • Burton2000 #429 7 years ago

    i wonder after we have the power of ps3 and xbox360 with there photo realisticness. what will happen next? and i have read some info on ps3 and xbox360 so i didnt know they were making it easier to devlop on these platforms.another thing and this may b a big one is development costs. how much will it cost to make a game that graphicly powerful and if it costs loads that may mean smaller development teams are pushed out the way?who knows.can you tell me what microsofts position is on that please because nintendo have said they are making it really cheap and easy to develop on revolution.so perhaps that would welcome small developers that dont have lot of cash.
    Edited by 1 at 04/06/05 @ 07:12

  • Gareth.de #430 7 years ago

    i wonder after we have the power of ps3 and xbox360 with there photo realisticness. what will happen next?

    Well to be honest, we're far from photo-realism. Maybe they'll be able to handle a single car or a single face to look photo-realistic, but once you add whole level maps, foilage etc. then the realism will drop even on these latest consoles. We're still a fair few years away from absolute realism, despite Sony's claims and hype, but getting closer to it every generation is no bad thing. Even when we have a console that can produce billions of textured polygons every second, that will still not give us absolute realism.

    and i have read some info on ps3 and xbox360 so i didnt know they were making it easier to devlop on these platforms.

    Due to the added costs of developing games that will take advantage of more and more dvanced hardware, making development easier is a significant bonus.

    another thing and this may b a big one is development costs. how much will
    it cost to make a game that graphicly powerful and if it costs loads that may mean smaller development teams are pushed out the way?

    Well, using the power of the console itself costs nothing because the power is in the hardware that the consumer has already bought. What *does* cost though is the research and development of larger, more complicated games. For example, go back 10 years to when we were playing a side-scrolling WW2 game with pixels and sound that all fit onto 24mb cartidges. These days though we have development teams visiting actual battle fields, mapping levels based on real places, interviews, a lot more research etc. to make the game more realistic. Developing character models that feature thousands of polygons is also more time-consuming than say back in the days of the Saturn when they only featured a couple of hundred.

    Unfortunately it seems that developing on ever more powerful hardware and delivering ever more realistic worlds is always going to incur more costs. On the other hand, just because a console is *capable* of delivering large and immersive worlds, doesn't mean to say a more simple game can't be developed with lower development costs - look at Chu Chu Rocket, Bust-a-move, Super Monkeyball etc.

  • mattigan #431 7 years ago

    Whats the Flame War record for the number of posts on a news item? This must be getting close, surely.

    EG staffers, Please Please change the title of this news item to:

    "Next-gen Fanboys trade blows" much more apt.

  • mattigan #432 7 years ago

    440th post!!!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Suckers!

  • DDevil #433 7 years ago

    It doesn't seem like anywhere near 440 posts, heck hardly half of that... but then again I did ignore Gareth.de for being a complete toolbox (he even seemed to be having conversations by himself at one point)
    Edited by 1 at 04/06/05 @ 19:04

  • Burton2000 #434 7 years ago

    wow 440 posts and counting unfortunatly i dont think well make it to 500 as the argument is starting to die down now.

  • gerg #435 7 years ago

    The argument died down ages ago.

  • Burton2000 #436 7 years ago

    oh well wana play i spy?

  • Gareth.de #437 7 years ago

    Yea it's a shame no-one posted any insightful and useful messages like yours, DDevil...

  • Genji #438 7 years ago

    Yay for Nintendo!

  • Stickman #439 7 years ago

    I spy with my little eye something beginning with 'silly argumen-'
    Anyone?

  • Burton2000 #440 7 years ago

    silly argument yay im good

  • Burton2000 #441 7 years ago

    no super game mat that was the 450th comment of this section. u have now embaresed yourselves infront of the entire internet congratualtions.