MS insists you can sit with Kinect

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 8 July, 2010

Only in games made "with sitting in mind".

Microsoft has insisted that Xbox 360 motion-sensing add-on Kinect can recognise players who are sitting, despite a recent developer comment to the contrary.

"Kinect can be used while sitting when an experience is developed with sitting in mind," Microsoft told Joystiq.

Backing up its claim, Microsoft pointed to navigating the Dashboard and using the ESPN, Zune and Video Kinect apps as "experiences where we expect people to be sitting".

Yesterday, Eurogamer brought you confirmation that upcoming Ubisoft real-time strategy game R.U.S.E. will support Sony's PlayStation Move controller when it's released in September.

Senior producer Mathieu Girard told us the team decided not to integrate Kinect into the game because users are required to stand up while playing.

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (59) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • KayJay #1 2 years ago

    Basic control: Yes
    Complex control: Not Really

  • woodnotes #2 2 years ago

    But only with supported Microsoft Chairs.

  • Byblos1 #3 2 years ago

    I begin to wonder how far we've advanced when 'sitting support' isn't a given anymore.

  • Doctor_What #4 2 years ago

    In other words - "if the game expects you to be standing the entire time then there's no choice but to do so".

  • Steroyd #5 2 years ago

    Backing up its claim, Microsoft pointed to navigating the Dashboard and using the ESPN, Zune and Video Kinect apps as "experiences where we expect people to be sitting".

    I have seen the light these games will... hey wait a minute THESE AREN'T GAMES!!!

  • Goodfella #6 2 years ago

    What are these sitting down games then?

    Even the stupid driving game they showed involved having to stand up, lol.

  • RodHull #7 2 years ago

    Isn't there a video of someone playing Burnout sat down, using their feet as the pedals?

  • jellyhead #8 2 years ago

    Show us, Microsoft. Show us.

  • funkateer #9 2 years ago

    I'm not really surprised to be honest.
    Perhaps RUSE has a more complex control scheme than Kinect can support without using a controller, and 'no controller required' was kind of like Kinect's tag-line.
    Hopefully they will find a solution, because motion control and RTS games seems like such a perfect fit to me.

  • JohnnyWashnGo #10 2 years ago

    This has the aspect of damage control about it.

  • TeaFiend #11 2 years ago

    Does this mean people in wheelchairs can play?

  • GamesProgrammer Verified Games Team Programmer, Eutechnyx Ltd. #12 2 years ago

    I bet that's only if you track the upper body. Kinect seems like a great idea but i think the tech is still to premature. The more i see the more i think Eye Toy and i know that's doing it a disservice.

  • ziggy_played_guitar #13 2 years ago

    I'll have one either way. Just need to, not sure why... western lifestyle I guess.

  • Deckard1 #14 2 years ago

    I love the 360, but this is starting to have fail written all over it.

  • NorUraeus #15 2 years ago

    My guess is that since they only track a few body points when sitting you don't have enough moving control points to do any kind of advanced controls. As for Ruse I would also assume the lack of buttons is making things hard, and without finger tracking I guess emulating button pushes becomes hard. My take is that Kinect will rock for exercise games, like the Harmonix dance game, but when tried applied to non-exercise games ever game will feel like an exercise to play :)

  • Beano #16 2 years ago

    "Sitting down is a old-gen requirement"

    - Microsoft

  • uzivatel #17 2 years ago

    @Doctor_What: Well, it would be pretty hard to play games like Dance Central while not standing...

  • Apostle #18 2 years ago

    I quite like sitting while playing games.

  • Drpwnage #19 2 years ago

    In the perfect, controller free, casual gaming future, everyone is stood up to play in their designer loft apartments with their ethnically diverse circle of friends and 2+ 2 family. Kinect will usher this gaming uptopia in!

  • Zeburdee #20 2 years ago

    In the last few months the poor old Natal/ Kinect AI seems to have developed suicidal sub-routines. What a real shame for something many of us were hoping could be really special.

    MS Kinect Demonstrator:

    "So as you can see, down these rapids there's a giant enemy crab: just attack its weak sitting point for massive damage"

  • Ryze #21 2 years ago

    MAKE A KINECT ENABLED FLIGHT SIM...

    ...or patch Forza to allow us to press stuff on the dashboard.

    Cheers.

    Damn shame you can't track fingers. They should have included a special 'zoom' mode that tracks a single player's head, arms and fingers only.

    Looks like they messed up, unless they release hand controllers for the thing, or use basic gestures such as leaning, waving and grabbing.

    We'll see...

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #22 2 years ago

    Whilst I've never had any doubt that Kinect would work sitting down, MS really needs to get a lid on this negative PR.

  • Beano #23 2 years ago

    This would never have happend if Microsoft were also manufacturing furniture.

  • TeaFiend #24 2 years ago

    If I was in the furniture buisness I would make some furniture "designed for Kinect use".

    Could make a fortune.

  • Skooch #25 2 years ago

    I don't understand a lot of the comments here, if the game requires you to stand up then you have to stand up to play. Games that don't mean you can sit down, as well as for navigating the dashboard. Why all the negative comments? Isn't this what people expected from Kinect?

  • ParanoidZombie #26 2 years ago

    It seems that the gaming world has turned against Kinect. Reminds me of an Arrested Development episode, where Michael's wanna-be attorney (a real pro) says that he recently received "the worst attendee ever" award at a Cirque Du Soleil show. It looks like their antics really didn't do it for you as well.

  • mingster #27 2 years ago

    RYZE they absolutely will not be releasing hand controllers for kinect.

  • mingster #28 2 years ago

    Beccause Skootch some people might like to play normal games sitting down.
    But at the moment even though MS are tring to use major damage limitation to stop the negative PR unfortunaltely Natal still has problem on depth perception trying to work out your skeleton structure while sitting down. It cant tell the difference between hips and knees. SO it will only concentate on upper body motion tracking when sitting down so basically hand gestures and head tracking and maybe a bit of leaning side to side

  • Toothball #29 2 years ago

    I'm totally in favour of sitting down while playing games.

  • uzivatel #30 2 years ago

    @mingster: Sure, people like to play normal games while sitting. That said, you dont use your legs that much while playing most normal games, do you?

  • Steroyd #31 2 years ago

    Well, it would be pretty hard to play games like Dance Central while not standing...

    And if Kinect was integrated into COD how long would you play online?

  • Beano #32 2 years ago

    @Toothball : Agreed - I got tried of standing up while playing games in 2003 on PS2.
    Edited by 1 at 08/07/10 @ 10:52

  • uzivatel #33 2 years ago

    @Steroyd: I dont see myself playing CoD with Kinect (well, I dont see myself playing CoD in any form, but thats not the point).
    I dont see any point ruining good controls with some gimmicky me-too addition ... especially during competitive multiplayer.

  • mingster #34 2 years ago

    @uzivatel: How are you supposed to accelrate or decelrate in a racing game sitting down if it only tracks upper body?

  • mingster #35 2 years ago

    you see xboc core sitting down games are shooters and driving games and neither will be any good on Natel.
    Edited by 1 at 08/07/10 @ 11:08

  • uzivatel #36 2 years ago

    @mingster: Moving you hands forward or backward while holding the imaginary wheel? Seeing some games already do the breaking for you automatically on lower difficulty setting, I would not worry too much.
    But why would you want to play core racing games and core shooters with motion controls in the first place? (other than the head tracking, which does not require legs anyway)

  • FlipC #37 2 years ago

    Does this mean that along with the number of players, storage requirements etc that appears on the back of the game boxes Kinect games will also give standing/sitting information? :-)

  • Toothball #38 2 years ago

    @uzivatel

    I'm sticking to a steering wheel for my racing games. Loss of tactile feedback in those seems like a massive step backwards. I'd rather see them concentrate on games you can't already play with some kind of controller, rather than trying to glue motion controls into games you can. Dance Central is probably the best example of this.

  • uzivatel #39 2 years ago

    @Toothball: Pretty much this.
    I can see why MS wants to have Kinect support in some racing games, but its clearly not an option for core gamers and I believe they are not even marketing it as one.
    Edited by 1 at 08/07/10 @ 12:26

  • Paulie_P #40 2 years ago

    Isn't this the same with Wii games?

    - i can't play Tiger Woods sitting down but I can play Metroid sitting. It just depends on the type of game you're playing.

  • Steroyd #41 2 years ago

    I dont see myself playing CoD with Kinect (well, I dont see myself playing CoD in any form, but thats not the point).
    I dont see any point ruining good controls with some gimmicky me-too addition ... especially during competitive multiplayer.

    You missed my point, not every game will be Dance Central and if Microsoft is really going to push this, it will be integrated into more gamer games down the line, right now the only thing MS can back-up the sitting issue is with apps, whether the issue will be resolved later is up in the air so the issue will still probably be an issue.

  • fizzyfish #42 2 years ago

    Solved.

  • makeamazing #43 2 years ago

    Hopefully they will find a solution, because motion control and RTS games seems like such a perfect fit to me.

    Well the only solution is to use a "hand" based controller. Kinect is just not accurate enough to do something needing this much precision.

    I also agree with someones statement about negative spin, MS need to get control of it asap before it begins to damage sales of it (and i am guessing they have spent alot of money on it)... the best way is to release information on what games are coming out for it (and i dont mean some animal game), and try to handle issues such as camera viewing angle and the whole sitting down mess.

  • Beano #44 2 years ago

    "MS insists you can sit on Kinect "

    *fixed*

  • FuzzyDuck #45 2 years ago

    Ha, i'm practically lying down when i play games.

    /pats wireless controller on a job well done.

  • BAM! #46 2 years ago

    I heard Twitter are renaming the Fail Whale to the Kinect Whale.

  • cyacomini #47 2 years ago

    Apparently the ability to 'sit down' whilst playing Kinect games will be restricted to Gold membership holders.

    Silver members will have to stand up, but they will be able to sit down during the 'free gold' weekends.

    :)

    I'm still buying one though!
    Edited by 1 at 08/07/10 @ 13:45

  • davisorle #48 2 years ago

    So I take it its a matter of programming Kinect to work with you either while standing up or sitting down. So its all up to the developer if I will be sitting down or standing up while using Kinect!?

  • androidave #49 2 years ago

    For real games I think the ps3 move is going to be the better option.. but I'm sure you can still use kinect in core games for things like head tracking, then use a normal controller for the movement?

  • Calgon #50 2 years ago

    Sounds to me like Mathieu Girard hasn't really given kinect much thought at all... doesn't know what it can do, I suppose maybe he didnt have enough time(because he only started puttin the simple move controls into the game 4-5 weeks ago) or Sony moneyhatted the devs to get it supported in the first place.

    We'll see how long this tedius trend of: "you will have to stand up and wave your arms around like a loon in all games on kinect... cos its not precise, cos I know what Im talking about honest" in the SDFGamer comments goes on, it will probably go on untill theres 20 games that do support accurate control sitting down before they admit it, much like anything Xbox same old FUD on a different story.

    I'm not exactly sold on it myself yet, but honestly the way some of you go on is much worse than those who proclaim it as the second coming that will change the world, or atleast on par. Lets just wait and see shall we?

  • Farzlepot #51 2 years ago

    Bah, when I roll in drunk and switch my Xbox on I expect to be able to sit down while playing. Mainly because I can't stand up again.

  • Goodfella #52 2 years ago

    I just don't see what type of games you going to be able to play sitting down, using just your two arms/hands. Tetris?!

    I think the launch games are pretty much the only type of games you're going to see, exercise and party games, oh and Sit Down Edition Tetris
    Edited by 1 at 08/07/10 @ 14:31

  • des #53 2 years ago

    "Only in games made "with sitting in mind"."

    Kinect is just like any other controller,if you want to use dual analogs you will have design the game around that.Some jrpgs use only one analog...why?Because they are designed to do that

    I don't think that they need legs tracking,upper body tracking combined with "normal controllers" could give some amazing results.As for legs,people have slippers,kicking something while sitting= flying slippers and brand new TV is the target...devs will have to be careful with that.

    Also there is one question that barely anyone is asking...what about people that can't walk?Obviously they can't play standing only games,sitting ones yes,but only if leg movement is not required.Customizable controls would solve that though

  • Machiavellian #54 2 years ago

    Seems pretty silly if you ask me. Seen enough of the data that Natal picks up to see that it tracks a body while sitting just as good as it does when standing. Doesn't seem like a big stretch that a dev would have to program a game for sitting and standing which probably would be the case for certain move games as well.

  • messiahtj #55 2 years ago

    "Kinect can be used while sitting when an experience is developed with sitting in mind,"

    When an experience is developed with sitting in mind, eh? Microsoft's Toilect confirmed!!11!!1!!

  • Les #56 2 years ago

    It's almost impossible to believe MS could design an EyeToy alternative 7 years after the original went to market, hype it beyond belief with a fake show at E3 2009, and then only end up with a device that can only recognize gestures of people that are standing...

    But then it's also pretty ridiculous to imagine one of the biggest tech companies in the world spending millions on developing and marketing a new mobile phone, only to discontinue it a couple of months later after just a little over 500 units have been sold...

  • busboy33 #57 2 years ago

    @toothball:

    "I'm sticking to a steering wheel for my racing games."

    Is there ANYTHING you've seen or heard that suggests you can't? You CAN mime a steering wheel with Kinect (T10 did it with the Forza4 preview and the Kinect team have shown it with Burnout) but everybody hase made clear that you can still use controllers or wheels for those games as well. It is an additional controller option, not a replacement.

    Would you use it? No (I'm assuming). I wouldn't either. But my brother-in-law (40 years old) would. He (a) has a 360, (b) likes driving games to watch and he wants to play them but (c) hates using a twinstick and isn't welling to shell out the money for an additional perhipheral (wheel) that he can only use with one of two games. He didn't grow up playing games, so "trigger/leftthumbstick" for controlling cars really annoys him.

    Would a "just steer" mode suck? To me, yes. I wouldn't use it. Does it change anything about the rest of Forza that I do use? Nope. I don't play the horseshoe mini-game in Red Dead, because I think it sucks. Does that make RDR an Epik Fail? Of course not.

    Now . . . head tracking? Playing with the cars in the garage with guestures? Tuning or painting using guestures? Could be cool. Of course, they could be useless, in which case I don't use them.

    I just don't see how Kinect can "harm" games (affirmatively make them "worse";) if it doesn't take anything away from what was there before. Lets assume you added support for the RockBand smoke machine attachment into Forza. Does it make it better? Probably not. Some idiot might like it, but I wouldn't. But has it made the game worse? Not if you don't turn it on.

    The "limitations" of Kinect are only a dealbreaker for games that are Kinect-exclusive. If you can ONLY play game X with Kinect, then you might have issues. But something "Kinect-enhanced" or whatever they're going to call them seems like it can only be a benefit or at least not a detriment since the game assumes you might not have Kinect at all. Adding Move support to SOCOM doesn't hurt SOCOM. Don't like it? Don't use it. It's still the same game. If SOCOM was "Move-exclusive", then I think you'd have a serious problem.

  • aphexstwin #58 2 years ago

    I ALREADY have kinect for forza! its called the ms wireless wheel in my house. and i can sit and play on it too!!!

  • Rack #59 2 years ago

    I see what you're saying busboy, but given the CPU overhead of Kinect including support absolutely will make the game worse in other was.