Miyamoto: world beats story in games

By Oli Welsh Published 1 July, 2010

Player-creator "bond", creative play are key.

Shigeru Miyamoto has said that he thinks a players' relationship with a game world, "bond" with the game's creators, and ability to play creatively are more important than story and emotion in gaming.

"More than story, what's really important is the connection between the person creating the game and the person playing the game," he said. "And what's very important is that the person playing the game be able to feel naturally accepting of the world that's been created for them to play in."

The Nintendo design legend had been posed a question from IGN reader starmin76 in a video interview on the site: "What is your view on emotion and story in games?"

Although he didn't quite answer the question directly, Miyamoto embarked on a brilliant distillation of his game design philosophy that is such essential reading, we reproduce it in full here.

"Then what happens is if they have a natural acceptance of the rules and of what's happening in this world that's been created, then that bond between creator and player becomes that much stronger and that much more important," he continued.

"And then what happens is as the player begins to understand the world that they're playing in, then they're going to begin to think about ways that they can play within that world; they use their own creativity and their own imagination to tell the story or to come up with their own parts of the story, and at the same time they come up with new ways to play in this world that has been created for them."

Predicting and encouraging creative play within a game world was at the heart of good game design and that sense of connection with the game's creators, Miyamoto explained.

"As a developer then, we have to try to predict some of the ways that players will try to play in that world, and give them reactions or responses or rewards for using their own creativity for finding new ways to interact within that environment," he said.

"And that to me is really what is the most important element - the connection between creator and player in a videogame."

In the interview, Miyamoto also discusses Nintendo's online service ("I can't really speak in any detail about what our precise plans might be, but Nintendo's ultimate goal is to have every Wii connected to the internet") and the possibility of a version of Super Mario World for the 3DS.

Asked what he would change or add to the SNES classic, he said, "The question gets me thinking about what fun it would be to create a Super Mario World game in the Nintendo 3DS and how we could use the depth and the sense of distance offered by 3D visuals on the world map and on the maps in that game, so that you have Bullet Bills flying at you from a distance and popping up off the screen."

Was that a hint, he was asked? "I don't know... Maybe!"

File that one under speculative musing then - although it would hardly be the first time Nintendo had remade one of its classics to give a boost to a new portable.

Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (41) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • sneetch #1 2 years ago

    Thus endeth our reading from the book of Shigeru Miyamoto.

    The man is right.

  • geeza2020 #2 2 years ago

    Legend.

  • The-Bodybuilder #3 2 years ago

    There are 2 types of gamers, IMHO;
    1. The type miyamoto describes (The more "Cerebral" type, where it's usually all about the gameplay)
    2. The more "emotional" gamer, where the game elicits emotions via through the story, setting, music, e.t.c

    We cannot simply categorize a player as one of the other, as we're all both (and would prefer both combined). But when push comes to shove, I'm type 2. My favourite games are shenmue and Mass Effect, two story-driven games.
    I like to escape, I like to fantasize and I like to be in another world. It's why I'd much prefer to read a story on a train, rather than play sudoku.

    All my opnion of course, so if you desagree don't neg me. I fully "get" miyamoto's philosophy, I just disagree with it.

  • Vlad27145 #4 2 years ago

    @MattDamon
    Actually, no he doesn't. He's stating his opinion and his personal design philosophy, which is perfectly acceptable. In the end it's a matter of POV. For example, while I don't think anyone can deny the man makes great games, for me personally they just don't have what it takes to be involved with them. They're very good for a bit of fun, but I'm never compelled to finish them. I want a story, I want to be intrigued, I want characters to develop, I want a Deus ex Machina, I want a lot more than "Thank you Mario, but our princess is in another castle". But that's just me, others may just want to have fun, or find delight in the admittedly great playgrounds the guy creates. I'm not right. You aren't right. He isn't either.

  • the_dudefather #5 2 years ago

    I agree, but in regards to Galaxy, it has fantastic design with minimal explanation or exposition, but many of use have been playing Mario games for years,so many of it's concepts are already very familiar, would be interesting to see what it would be like without that past experience (I'm sure kids get on great with it)
    Edited by 1 at 01/07/10 @ 11:10

  • Dismiss #6 2 years ago

    Sure, but why can't we have both? It's a fake dilemma.

  • ChthonicEcho #7 2 years ago

    Agreed with Bodybuilder.

    When creating a game where the focus is put on the player and his/her actions (Super Mario Galaxy, Fallout 3, Just Cause 2, et al) the world plays a far bigger role than the storyline, which can, if improperly handled, even hinder enjoyment. In games where the focus lies in the consequences of the player's actions, the story is more important.

    Then again, my ideal game has both a beautifully crafted in-depth world and a finely written story. I don't see why so many try to separate the two. Both are important in almost any game.

  • Bremenacht #8 2 years ago

    Shigeru Miyamoto has said that he thinks a players' relationship with a game world, "bond" with the game's creators, and ability to play creatively are more important than story and emotion in gaming.

    You can see exactly why Zelda and Mario are what they are if you accept this - the story doesn't matter so it stays the same. The gameplay evolves along with the hardware, although I have to say that whereas Mario on Wii has certainly evolved, Zelda is largely the same.

  • ignatiusjreilly #9 2 years ago

    Spot on.

    Too many devs concentrate on making their game cinematic nowadays, but they are not films and we don't play them in a cinema.

    Play to gaming's strengths, don't just copy other mediums. Nintendo knows that better than anybody.

  • LazyDan #10 2 years ago

    The man has put into words this vague notion in my head which I've my entire life never been able to articulate, but have always been able to dismiss games based on it. It also explains why I tend to enjoy the Mario's and the Zelda's while never being able to 'get' the Crash Bandicoots and their ilk. As a developer, when I play a game I tend to think of it as 3D models, variables and code sequences. When I play a Nintendo game, I generally forget all about that and just connect with it like he says. A lot of western developed games have a tendency to 'feel' generated - you can tell you're pushing a 3D model around some other 3D models, and it's all very bland.

    More interesting for me then, is how I struggle to keep this connection with the game world in the Mario Galaxy games, particularly the second one which I'm playing through now. Every now and then I come across a level and all I can see it as is a bland series of sparsely laid out simple 3D objects, set against a void with a flat starry background. Example: Supermassive Galaxy - where classic Mario staples like Goombas and Question blocks are all enlarged. It's just a couple of scaled up Mario objects (really not many,) scattered in an empty space... It just doesn't feel right. It feels like a user created level editor job, designed to test the player at the expensive of an atmosphere or any cohesion.

    Compare to Mario 64's Castle which I absolutely felt was all one great big interconnected location, with little nooks and crannies to explore - even the levels such as the mountain one with the stream running down it - you felt like you could go in and out the little tunnels and swim around in the stream - and it was all one cohesive world.

    Super Mario World 3DS with all sorts of detail going on in the background which the user has to watch out for definitely sounds like a recipe for getting this connection bang on again, just have to wait and see I guess.

    I'm glad Nintendo get this connection between gamer and world, but on inspection I feel as though they've missed it with the Galaxy games.

  • vx-chemical #11 2 years ago

    How can the player be creative in a nintendo game? They offer us a ruleset that we have to follow. Nearly all games do. only a few games like Little Big Planet truly offer the player creativity.

  • spekkeh #12 2 years ago

    Stolen from sneetch and Nietzsche:

    EG should end all interviews with Miyamoto with

    Thus spake Shigeru.

  • sneetch #13 2 years ago

    Dismiss is right though, it's a fake dilemma, the truly great games have both a good story and a good, coherent world that you "connect" with somehow and they completely draw you in.

    Of course, achieving that is another thing altogether.

  • Doctor_What #14 2 years ago

    Didn't Deus Ex manage both the play-with-the-world design AND the great story?

    Personally I prefer a decent story rather than a collection of toys, which might be why (whisper it) Super Mario has never really impressed me much.

  • Canyarion #15 2 years ago

    (I'd rather have a completely new Mario game for the 3DS launch.)

    I really love to play around in SMG2, but I've hardly played the game since launch. And when I play, it's usually for an hour or so. Perhaps that's because it lacks a story.

  • Stuz359 #16 2 years ago

    I think it's completely true what he said. When I play a Zelda game, the world feels cohesive and you feel attached to that world. The story is largely incidental. There are many games that have a decent story but the world feels unfinished or fake in someway. I think it's something that developers forget. You can have a great story, but if at any point the game something up which jars you out of the story and immersion in the world, it's often disastrous. I know I haven't made myself exactly clear here...

  • TonyHarrison #17 2 years ago

    Saying that an immersive game world is more important than a compelling story to a specific individual doesn't equate to that individual saying that stories in games are bad...

  • Kami #18 2 years ago

    "The gameplay evolves along with the hardware, although I have to say that whereas Mario on Wii has certainly evolved, Zelda is largely the same."

    I agree with that, though let's be fair - Twilight Princess may have been a Greatest Hits album, but it was still gloriously awesome. I am hoping that Skyward Sword pushes the boat out a bit like SMG and SMG2 - there's tons of potential there, with whole new approaches to the adventure (I still want Deku Bowling. I demand it.).

    Nintendo games do evolve, change and adapt to new hardware - that's always been a great thing about Nintendo. They have set franchises but they grow with their audience, they grow with the technology, they grow with the trends. Even when those trends have been... ahem... not so great. But then, look at Sonic - a game so firmly entrenched in the bloody past, it's had to go right back to the beginning to work out what it is again! And why do games like Tomb Raider need rebooting every few bloody games?! Is it THAT hard to not make a shit game out of an acrobatic female Indiana Jones with a sadistic streak?!

    People can moan all they like about Nintendo and their main franchises - when they deliver games with the near-consistant quality of Mario, Zelda, Metroid etc., it makes you realise there's probably only one company out there that even remotely matches Nintendo in terms of quality and consistancy of output (And their name is Bioware!).

    Doesn't stop me hoping though everyone will catch up. But I suppose too many god-like devs would kinda make the market a little boring...

  • vizzini #19 2 years ago

    “How can the player be creative in a nintendo game?”

    Since Super Mario 64, you’ve been able to move through Mario’s 3D gaming worlds with extraordinary motion fidelity.

    The Luke Skywalker styled backward summersault from the carbon freeze trap in Empire Strikes Back is just one example how Miyamoto anticipated a user’s creative desires.

    You also have jump, long jump, triple jump, wall jump, walk, jog and full out running. You can also change 90-180deg direction quickly and jump to get a side flip. Spinning from height when back flipping from a Conifer tree’s top, successive wall jumps to scale new heights, etc.

    Chaining these moves in creative and haphazard ways is the way Mario 64/Mario Galaxy (and to a greater degree Mario Sunshine with the addition of flood’s uses) allows the gamer to create their own non-linear motion through the game.

    Mario’s movement options have been generations ahead of similar story driven games. Assassins Creed 1&2/Infamous, Ninja Gaiden, etc have just about caught up and surpassed Mario/Zelda games with world/story, but the movement options in Mario 64 (et al.) are still better than any other skill based adventure game imo.

    Very interesting for him to verbalise something I’ve experienced from playing his games.

  • linksdad #20 2 years ago

    The connection is entirely abstract. The medium of that abstraction is the game and it is more of a one way connection between the creator and the player that is so vitally important rather than the other way round, other than on a cultural level. The player only needs to connect with the game (world or story), it doesnt need to go any further than that.
    I've played hundreds and hundreds of hours of shigsy's games and can fully appreciate his genius (mostly) without having had any 'connection'. He has been thinking about this too much.

  • Rubarack #21 2 years ago

    This is bang on, but has he told Eiji Aonuma this? He seems to have been floundering with this concept of late.
    Edited by 1 at 01/07/10 @ 13:07

  • Alf-Life #22 2 years ago

    @Dismiss, #8 - it's not a fake dilemma, at least right now.

    Jonathan Blow made an awesome presentation (http://nu mber-none.com/blow/slides/montr... -33mb) where he convincingly argues story and challnge/gameplay are two arrows going in opposite directions. When story starts, gameplay stops.

  • Embra #23 2 years ago

    As a writer in the industry, I have to agree: a consistent world (where physics, graphics, design, etc all compliment each other) does draw a player in and helps them fully connect and tell their own stories. If there's the need for a 'proper' story and for dialogue in the game, they have to do the same; they have to compliment every other aspect. Unfortunately, because story and dialogue are so often dismissed, misunderstood or done as an afterthought by the studios themselves, it's a sad fact that they often serve to break the immersion created by every other aspect of the game. I hope Miyamoto's comments are not seen as dismissing story and then mistakenly used as justification for creators continuing to make the same mistakes over and over again.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #24 2 years ago

    He is right, but that does not mean that a compelling story and emotions don't make a great game.

    There are a couple of games that I can think of right now where I "bonded" more with the character than the world just because I could play creatively.

  • SpaceMonkey77 #25 2 years ago

    I hear what Miyamoto is saying, and with the kind of product Nintendo create, this makes sense. However, what he says will be different for others. I'm the kind of gamer that likes a good story and a great world to play in. Because of this gaming view of mine, most Nintendo games haven't much for me anymore. How many times can we save a princess from a castle, when such excuses in Nintendo games, kill any means of why you should save her sorry arse at all.

    In a game world with a decent written story, Mario games would be fodder for pre schoolers. Saying that, many other Nintendo games suffer because of lack of story, and while they are indeed fun, players should be offered more. Why should I play your games at all Nintendo?

    Star Fox is a great example of a Nintendo series, that could have a great storyline and universe. As much fun as the games are, the lack of building the universe out with characters with lives, motiviations and agendas, makes it fall down where there was great potential. In contrast, Zelda and Mario having next to no story, are products of a time where story meant little under gameplay. Its no surprise that Nintendo build more on these games, than Star Fox, Metroid, Golden Sun, as another SMB is easier to push out the door, when gameplay is its focus.

    Think of how awesome Star Fox or Metroid could be, if expanded out like Mass Effect, in terms of story, characters and world, besides the excellent gameplay. They could be much better, but I guess Nintendo don't have the man power or talent to make it so (also explains why both Star Fox and Metroid have been outsourced) in 3D. Metroid is the only one that has grown from such treatment, via Retro Studios. I await the day, that Star Fox gets that kind of attention and focus.

    Expanding worlds can be done via story and gameplay, or just one of them sure, but I'm sure many will prefer story over gameplay (this will be different for everyone). Again with Mass Effect, I can stop playing the game when I've completed it, then listen to the audio books or read the comics. A world does not have to end, when you hit that power off switch on your console/PC, but going by Miyamoto's view, this is what happens with Mario and Zelda games, where such options are not offered (except for awesome fan based machinama like There Will Be Brawl or The Legend of Neil). Any other stuff like comics based on Nintendo IP, stay in japan.

    Seems only Nintendo jrpgs (Fire Emblem, Golden Sun) are the games that bother with story and a cohesive enough world with characters, and laced in good gameplay. No surprise gameplay is king at Nintendo, but they should offer more story etc, where needed, in and outside of games.

  • jarek98 #26 2 years ago

    In CASUAL games - maybe so.
    In REAL games - NEVER.

  • wizbob #27 2 years ago

    There's some promise in a Mass Effect / Starfox hybrid. Have you ever felt that you wanted to know Slippy a bit better? Maybe more than just, 'do a barrel roll'?
    Could you really take a game story seriously unless it reached the level of a passable movie or novel? Until then there's not really much between Star Fox and Mass Effect, both of which are unintentionally funny.

  • Mr_Bogus #28 2 years ago

    @wizbob: What you're really saying, is you want to see Krystal in an alien girl-on-girl sex scene?

  • sneetch #29 2 years ago

    @PatAU
    'Truely great games' dont have to have a story though.

    I recognise that its not a case of 'black and white', 'story or gameplay' but there are a number of absolute classic games where story has zero role whatsoever.

    You're right of course, I didn't mean to imply that a truly great game had to have both, it can have either (or neither, like Tetris) but having both can help make a game into a truly great game.
    Edited by 1 at 01/07/10 @ 17:15

  • CaoSlayer #30 2 years ago

    what a great game is shadow of the colossus.
    Edited by 1 at 01/07/10 @ 16:50

  • TonyHarrison #31 2 years ago

    @Mr_Bogus That's one problem I have with the 'epic' stories in video games, there's usually some cringeworthy moment involving sex or nudity such as the 'ZOMG she's taking her clothes off' moment in Heavy Rain which added precisely nothing to the story. There's nothing mature or ground breaking about things like that, in fact it's quite juvenile, even more so than the simplistic story in a Mario game in my opinion.

  • Paulie_P #32 2 years ago

    @vizzini

    +1 - exactly what i've been thinking for years.

    to add an addendum to that, most of those abilities you mentioned are available from the start of the game and are often optional. Games like Banjo Kazooie give you a limited move set to start off with then added new moves with more and more complicated controls each time. Not that it was a bad game but it didn't have the pure fun of experimenting with the moveset and world that Mario 64 did.

  • bionutz #33 2 years ago

    truer words were never said

  • SG #34 2 years ago

    Depends. SM64 and its kiddies are no doubt a product of design brilliance and need no massive story immersiveness.

    ON THE FLIP SIDE, OoT, MM ad TP atcually made me shed a few tears at certain points yet managed o keep the creative brilliance up. In short; depends on genre. So I think that there IS a place for it in games
    Edited by 1 at 01/07/10 @ 21:23

  • monkfishjoe #35 2 years ago

    I love the long jump in Super Mario Galaxy/2. The feeling, on the smaller planets where you just float around the planet for a few seconds is ace. Pure, gaming joy in a movement.

  • nasanu #36 2 years ago

    This is why my Wii has not been used since launch. I know a game like Mario Galaxy has great gameplay, but I am just not interested. I need a story, a reason to be doing what I am doing. It just seems pointless and I get very bored otherwise.

  • Kami #37 2 years ago

    nasanu, I think the beauty of Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime et al are that the story and gameplay are so intrinsicly tied - the gameplay in Metroid Prime (2 and 3) is the focal point, but you can be left to piece together the story - if not actively encouraged to do so, scanning and monitoring the fallen, the surroundings. Super Mario Galaxy, the story doesn't need to be complicated as it's the sheer scale of the game that drives you - Princess Peach is captured once again, Mario needs loving and will practically slice his own testicles off if it meant he could finally convince the dumb blonde to put out. Okay, that's taking it to extremes but you can fill in the blanks - it doesn't have to be quite as bland as people claim it is, if you just use a little imagination to bridge the gaps.

    I love story too, and I don't think games can survive entirely on their own on either foot - sure, you can stand on one leg for a while, but eventually you're going to have to put the other foot down or fall over. Beyond Good and Evil - a game that balanced out storytelling and gameplay to such a degree that I am desperate for the sequel (not merely because that last scene has been eating away at me for bloody years). As I said, the Metroid Prime series asks you, as Samus, to piece together the story for yourself - and there's a lot of it, if you can give it the time. Even Shadow of the Colossus - a game driven by the simple gameplay - has a deep story if you are willing to open up to it. But then, you have game franchises like Sonic (which hasn't been able to decide where it wants to go for some years now) and Tomb Raider (I appreciate that Tomb Raider has both gameplay AND story, but it might help if Lara was less of a psychotic betch y'know? "Oh what have I done?" Yeah yeah Lara, you're not fooling anyone, you're going to slice off their genitals and wear them as earrings. You know it, I know it, so just get it done already!), which try to do both but end up doing neither very well.

    No game can function on one single mechanic these days. It's why reviving old franchises can tend to result in bad results - you're interjecting story or gameplay into a classic title that didn't actually need one or the other. But there's loads of story in plenty of Wii games, and in tons of games in general. There's also gameplay. Neither is mutually exclusive, you just have to open up to it - push it away and of course you won't see it, because you're making sure you don't...

  • Hei #38 2 years ago

    Nintendo just doesn't want to spend high budgets on games... which are needed to make games with great story and such...

  • nasanu #39 2 years ago

    @Kami

    I love a lot of the games you mention there. Metroid Prime, ICO et al. They did have compelling stories. The stories were not forced upon you, but they were there and they were good. Mario Galaxy is just gameplay. May as well be tetris. That is fine if it looks great, is set to funky music and is called Lumines, but otherwise its dull.

    Sheer scale of gameplay does not cut it for me. In every game I have a reason to continue. In Gran Turismo I am always looking to improve my times, in FFXIII I want to see the next area, experience its beauty and watch the next bit of story. In heavy Rain, I just wanted to know what happens next. I can never find a reason to continue in recent Nintendo games.

  • Kami #40 2 years ago

    That's a pity nasanu, because I think a lot of Nintendo games do get story right and the gameplay and the drive to see what they do next and what that does to the characters is enough to push me onwards.

    As I said, story and gameplay are not mutually exclusive - you can stand on one leg for a while, but that leg will give out eventually unless you put the other foot down. Some games may be tailored more towards those of us who are happy to be compelled onwards - sometimes even in the absence of plot - to see what happens next. But they do have stories.

    But I respect maybe some games aren't quite for you. It's perfectly okay - you can learn to appreciate them, but of course they'll never become part of you. Just don't knock them. Especially Mario, whilst I do agree the story for Mario games is fairly standardised, I never ever get bored of mocking Mario, Peach, Bowser et al for their utterly bizarre relationship. I just fill in the gaps. "Mario, come to the castle, I've baked a cake for you!"... at which point the mocking side of me fills in with "It's smothered all over my naked breasts, come and get it big boy before big bad Bowser gets my delicious cherry!".

    It's weird, but for a game franchise like Mario, it's a coping mechanism I guess... :p

  • pariz #41 2 years ago

    Great article. Due to it and a "Dark glasses" one I read in the PS3 section I was convinced to finally create me an account.