Dragon Age: Origins - Warden's Keep and The Stone Prisoner Review

By Oli Welsh Published 11 November, 2009

Catching up on the downloadable content.

Version tested:

BioWare didn't just launch a single game when it released its RPG epic Dragon Age: Origins last week. It launched a new series, a new RPG system, a new fantasy universe, and a platform for what it hopes will be two years of continuous downloadable content. That content will either be created by the mod community using the game's tool set, or crafted by BioWare's own developers in what must be the most ambitious plans yet for DLC support of a single game.

You can find our reviews of the game itself on PC and console elsewhere. Below, we take a look at the first two major DLC packs for Dragon Age, available for all formats at the game's launch: The Stone Prisoner and Warden's Keep. Anyone buying a legitimate, first-hand copy of Dragon Age will be able to download The Stone Prisoner for free, while purchasers of the digital version of the Collector's Edition also get Warden's Keep. Both, however, do have price points, and both serve as an interesting indication of where BioWare intends to take this endless RPG over the next two years.

Warden's Keep

It's appropriate that each of the two downloadable adventures begins with a tip-off from a merchant. In the case of Warden's Keep, one Levi Dryden shows up in your camp before you buy the pack; accept his invitation to adventure, and you'll be taken straight to the game's (or console network's) marketplace to buy it for 560 points (of either the BioWare or Microsoft variety), $7, or a little under £5. You won't get to access Levi's own in-game wares until you've finished this short dungeon romp. It's a good joke, but is it at our expense?

'Dragon Age: Origins - Warden's Keep and The Stone Prisoner' Screenshot 1

Warden's Keep itself, and the Warden Commander armour set it yields.

Levi's grandmother was a great Grey Warden captain who lost the titular Keep at Soldier's Peak in a dispute with a tyrant King many years previously, muddying his family's reputation. He wants you to go to the crumbling and haunted castle to clear her name, reclaiming it from undead Wardens and demons in the process. Once you're there, ghostly apparitions reveal the events of three decades ago and put the infestation of monsters in context.

What follows is akin to one of Dragon Age's campaign quests in miniature, and a considerable cut above the game's afterthought side-questing. The location, though small, is as handsome and atmospheric as any in the game proper, and there's a neat storyline that fills in a relatively interesting corner of the Dragon Age's voluminous lore and even offers multiple outcomes via a few of the trademark grey-area moral choices.

When I say miniature, though, I really do mean miniature. Having just a handful of rooms of monsters and, depending on your choices, between two and four boss battles, Warden's Keep is over in well under an hour. While it's great to enjoy the best of Dragon Age's combat and storytelling in more compact form, it's an unsatisfying meal for the money. But here's the thing with Dragon Age DLC - you get dessert.

In both these packs, the quest is only half the attraction. The other half is composed of rewards that will offer a lasting impact on your game. In the case of Warden's Keep, you unlock the location as a new base with two merchants - neither offering much of interest, it must be said - and party inventory storage. Considering the limited inventory you can carry around with you, the latter's hugely useful, but it does feel like a feature that should have been included in the basic game. Depending on who you decide to kill, you also get some vary tasty loot, for Warriors and Blood Mages especially; and, by drinking a potion in the Keep, a couple of darkly powerful new abilities.

Warden's Keep is an encouraging start for Dragon Age DLC in quality terms - but not quantity. The quest is very short for something that costs more than a video rental, and the rewards feel a little tight-fisted. If you're going to buy it, don't wait until you've finished the main campaign - with both these packs, the earlier you play them, the longer you'll be able to enjoy their fruits.

6/10

The Stone Prisoner

Let's ignore for a moment the fact that most players will get it for free, and take The Stone Prisoner's list price of 1200 BioWare or Microsoft Points (around $15, €15, £10) as a sign of which way we can expect the wind to blow. At more than double the cost of Warden's Keep for a quest which won't take much if any more time to complete, it seems extortionate. But that would be to misunderstand what BioWare is doing with DLC, and how amazingly well-integrated this pack is with the game as a whole.

A merchant offers you the control rod for a rogue golem, which is to be found in a new village location, over-run with Darkspawn. The golem, Shale, stands statue-still in the middle of the village, and you'll need to unravel a short mystery, and free the surviving villagers from Darkspawn, to gain "control" of him. It's less satisfying than Warden's Keep in story terms, but a little more varied to play - there's a tile-puzzle to solve before you can battle (or choose to free) the solitary boss and claim your loot. Once again, the location and scripting are stronger than anything you'll find in Dragon Age's side-quests.

'Dragon Age: Origins - Warden's Keep and The Stone Prisoner' Screenshot 2

Shale's petite as rock monsters go, but his thunderous footfalls wear you down regardless.

The difference lies in the unlock reward: Shale himself. Anyone who's played Dragon Age for a reasonable length of time will know that companion characters are the most compelling content outside of the game's main quest line (some might even say including it). Like the others, Shale has reams of well-voiced dialogue in the form of conversations, interjections and banter with the other companions. Being a surprisingly arch and sarcastic golem, Shale's humorous edge does something to leaven Dragon Age's stuffy tone.

He also has an approval rating to play around with, a personal quest that dovetails with the larger plot, his own item customisation system with the attendant loot drops added across the game, and a unique set of golem abilities with tremendous utility. His auras can switch him at will, in the midst of battle, from a tank to a melee warrior, a ranged attacker or an immobile buff machine, a sort of living totem. Extremely useful on the field and quite amusing off it, and bringing a lot more content to the game than just his origin adventure, Shale's a worthy addition.

The question isn't so much whether he's worth the (still rather steep) asking price that most won't have to pay, as whether BioWare will be able to repeat this trick. Shale was made alongside the rest of Dragon Age's companions - will it be possible to retrofit further characters so deep into the storyline, with their own opinions and comments on it, their own personal investment in events? It seems unlikely, but it's not impossible. As a statement of intent - to create DLC that can meaningfully enrich the entire game you buy it for - The Stone Prisoner is exciting.

8/10

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About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (72) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Darren #1 2 years ago

    I've been way to busy with the main quest in DA:o to check out The Stone Prisoner but it sounds like having that character adds to the main game too as well as gives you an extra party member to choose from so I'm going to take a look at it tonight.

    And how ironic that the free DLC should receive a higher rating than the premium one...

  • cianchristopher #2 2 years ago

    I'd have thought that Rock Band had the most ambitious plans for DLC for a single game, no?

    Anyway, bought Dragon Age on launch, but haven't yet had time to really play it! Looks good though, I just need a few days/weeks/months/years off!

  • penhalion #3 2 years ago

    I really don't want to have to join the stupid online thing just to get and play these!

  • Stuz359 #4 2 years ago

    If the full game was released last week and we are getting these one week later, why not include them in the full game? Why not make the game itself the best it can be? I'm all for DLC, the Grand Theft Auto ones are some of the best examples but to release these one week after the game?!?
    Just sounds to me like they are trying to squeeze the consumer for everything they can get their hands on.

  • Eraysor #5 2 years ago

    Just imagine if every companion character cost you £10. Painful stuff.

  • hiddenranbir #6 2 years ago

    No way can they retro fit something like Shale. No no way.

    Of course, I'd love for Bioware to prove me wrong.

  • Eraysor #7 2 years ago

    Stuz, it wasn't even a week later. They were there at launch.

  • skillian #8 2 years ago

    It pisses me off to have a quest called 'Premium Content' stuck in my quest log that I can't get rid of. It's like it's sitting there silenty mocking me - it's just a cheap add-on... you're 30 years old... shouldn't you be earning more money by now?





  • skillian #9 2 years ago

    I bought the standard PC version from Steam - anyone know if I am supposed to be able to get any of this DLC?

    There's way too much game still to go so it hasn't bothered me, but the whole free/not free DLC on launch day has me a little confused...

  • GiarcYekrub #10 2 years ago

    I bought it all played the keep but not the shale one yet, I luv DLC I think its great idea to give it free to early buyers and make them cheap skate 2nd hand buyers pay

  • coomber #11 2 years ago

    Oli, as one of your great defenders on this site...can I ask you learn to write about RPGs without needless spoilers throughout?

  • skillian #12 2 years ago

    And it is a great way to annoy pirates for a bit.

    If it's free. If it's not, it just annoys everyone.

  • HL706 #13 2 years ago

    @Jozzy

    But when you're annoying pirates by making untold amounts of cash from legitimate consumers it's a bit off. GTAIV is the only game thus far to add DLC that is value for money. Map-packs and inidivdual quests should be free ffs.
    Edited by 1 at 11/11/09 @ 15:09

  • hibee #14 2 years ago

    "If it fits like a glove so well into the main game, then you can bet it has been developed along with the retail game. "

    The stone prisoner was planned to be in the retail version and was orginally cut due to time constraints. That decision, however, was taken when the PC release was going to be in March this year; once it was pushed back for a cross-platform release they finished the shale stuff as DLC. The high price point is supposedly to try and get a fraction of the pre-owned pie, as everyone who buys a first hand copy gets it free.

    Watcher's keep and its £5 lockbox is another issue I guess.

  • Tomo #15 2 years ago

    I think the DLC is outrageous personally. It basically feels like they taken content away from the main game and stuck a price tag on it. At least if it had come a few weeks or months later, you'd at least have the illusion that the DLC was as a genuine add-on.

    It's fucking smelly is what I'm saying in a roundabout way and I won't be buying. kthxEA.

  • cheekyjay #16 2 years ago

    I get the feeling that Shale WAS developed for the main game, but was taken out in order to counter the second-hand market. Basically (I think I'm right in saying this), every full-priced retail copy of the game comes with a voucher code that activates the sub-quest/character. As I don't yet own this game I may have my wires-crossed, but I believe that is how it works. I am guessing the extortionate solo price for this DLC is simply a premium that EA figured out may be some way of recouping any lost costs they would suffer from the game being re-sold into the second hand market, as it is only second hand owners that are going to need (if they so choose) to actually pay for this.

    Where EA will suffer though, is critically. If such entertaining segments of a game are removed in such a way, then they are missing from the review-build that the press cast their opinions on. Perhaps the game may have rated more highly if this entertaining character had been left on the disc from the start..?

    Not saying I agree with this practise of essentially removing parts of a finished game so that only full-priced purchasers get it included, but it does make business sense (at least until the inevitable backlash of disgruntled second-hand buyers).

    It does nothing, however, to counter piracy, as both the retail game and all DLC will inevitably be available (if they aren't already) on Torrent sites. It may in fact end up pushing potential (legal) second-hand purchasers into using file-sharing, rather than actually stopping piracy. It also feels like a rather unfair oversight on the rental market, forcing legitimate rental customers to pay full-whack for the DLC.
    Edited by 3 at 11/11/09 @ 15:33

  • Shakey_Jake33 #17 2 years ago

    @Jozzy - The counter-argument would be that the content would probably have been included in the game if DLC didn't exist, thus Bioware would be displaying a cynical approach to DLC, rather than a positive approach of genuinely adding new content (such as Oblivion: Shivering Isles). I don't know about the Dragon Age situation though.

  • mingster #18 2 years ago

    Why would it annoy pirates?
    You can download the DLC content and activate it for free from torrent sites.
    Nothing annoys pirates its all designed to piss off legitimate consumers.

  • groovychainsaw #19 2 years ago

    The way i see it, the main game is huge anyway, and they are trying to make the second hand market less powerful for the game (it will remain to be seen how well this works) and to make money out of pirates, by getting them to cough up for addons (as the code for shale etc. is only with a boxed copy.) What worries me is the warden's keep expansion adds useful functionality that probably should have been somewhere in the main game, and sounds too short.

    Bioware haven't released a single piece of DLC yet that didn't sound like poor value for money relative to their main game and I'm not sure they will have the time or the inclination to do it thoroughly. Luckily, modmakers will show them up on the PC if they don't have comprehensive expansions, so maybe the competition will help focus their minds...

  • skillian #20 2 years ago

    If there was no DLC, somewhere to stash your loot would certainly be in the game - it's an obvious omission that I didn't understand until I read this review.

    OK, I could not buy the game - this is the obvious solution apparently - but I love the game and certainly want it. I just want somewhere to put my trophies without paying £10 for the privilege.

  • TheSnotGoblin #21 2 years ago

    Just an FYI: There's a free mod available from the Social site made by one of the Bioware guys that adds a party loot chest to your camp.

    EDIT: Also as it stands currently the only people who don't access to Shale are either a) pirates (who will just download a cracked copy anyway) or b) folks who buy the game 2nd hand. He's basically incentive to buy the game new.
    Edited by 1 at 11/11/09 @ 15:51

  • Skurmedel #22 2 years ago

    Love the game, but their added content stuff doesn't work too well. Got two pre-order promos and, well I can't see them in my DLC-list despite the fact that I've redeemed both codes on their site. It's just a ring and some girdle or something but still.

  • UberFrog #23 2 years ago

    The good thing about DLC is that you can completely ignore it, if you dont like the game in general, just dont buy it! To me, Dragon Age stands out as an absolutely fantastic adventure, which I just cant get enough of. Feed me with all the DLCs you can make for this marvelous game, I'll easily pay $1000 per year if they released enough - quality - DLC stuff totalling that price.

    Such a shame that DLCs wasnt "invented" when BG2 was out...

  • Obit #24 2 years ago

    Not only 2nd hand buyers are punished, but also the vouchers for the included DLC expire in april I think next year, so it will also punish people who get it for cheap when it's in the bargain bins, which is pretty lame IMO.
    Good game though.

  • Azazel #25 2 years ago

    As someone who purchased DA via Steam - is The Stone Prisoner freely available to me in some way, or was it just retail boxed copies that included it?

  • thedaveeyres #26 2 years ago

    Should we knock two points off for the console version? :p

  • Guildenstern #27 2 years ago

    @Azazel
    Yes, it's available.

  • Dan260775 #28 2 years ago

    @ Azazel. You get it as well. Go to the downloadable content session, click redeem code and use your CD key (I think, Steam gave me 2 codes).

  • Turrican #29 2 years ago

    As hibee said, Bioware stated that Stone Prisoner got cut from the PC version in March and then put back in because of the extra time, you can find it buried in their forums somewhere. I therefore don't treat it as proper DLC in the truest sense, its a special case.

    I know its profitable and here to stay, but I can't understand this DLC phenomenon, the vast majority of it is irrelevant inferior content released at a premium compared to the value of the original product, at a time when I no longer have an interest in playing the game as I've usually completed it.

    The talk of 2 years of DLC for Dragon Age is all very well but once people complete the 60 hour main quest its going to take a very compelling case to get us to reload the game. They are basically going to need to do an expansion like you got for Baldur's gate (Throne of Bhaal etc) with full voice acting to continue with your main quest party for the same relative length per pound to make it viable in my eyes. So given the £25 cost of the game I'd expect a £10 DLC slice to give me 20 hours of content!

    The only DLC of any value so far is the GTA expansions, which were bankrolled by Microsoft to ensure exclusivity, and have ended up as a standalone package anyway, so I'm not sure they count either.

  • WinterSnowblind #30 2 years ago

    1200 points for Shale seems insane, I do really love how integrated he is into the main game, but that only raises the question of why he wasn't there to begin with. I know Bioware have said the content wasn't supposed to be available at launch, but I'm not sure I buy that excuse..

    He's clearly been planned to be there from the begining, and considering all the other characters can even interact and have special dialogue with him, I can't believe this was something that was thrown together after the main game was done.

    Wardens Keep isn't a particularly long quest, but it seems to add in a lot more and costs a fraction of the price. Maybe the price of the Stone Prisoner is just because of how much work had to go into Shale but I can't understand the price difference there.

  • WinterSnowblind #31 2 years ago

    @MilkybKid1985
    Rewarding people who buy the game new at launch is one thing, but 1200 just seems far too much for it and the codes expire in April. Feels just a bit too opportunistic, anybody who waits to buy the game slightly cheaper is just going to have to shell out another £15 just to get one of the party members.

  • JayG #32 2 years ago

    I'm a little annoyed by the stone prisoner brought the collector's edition, states on the back of the box that it's part of it, the piece of flimsy paper with the code wasn't in it. Still, i get the useless collector's edition items. Surely as i ented a valid code for the main game, should be a way of getting it.

  • WinterSnowblind #33 2 years ago

    The back of the collectors edition is flat out lies.

    Stone Prisoner and the Blood Dragon armour comes with ALL versions of the game, it's not part of the collectors edition DLC pack. It should have been on a seperate little piece of paper in the box though, if you didn't get it, I'd assume you'll have to contact Bioware or wherever you bought the game from.

  • Obit #34 2 years ago

    @JayG
    The stone prisoner code is on the back of one of the other dlc slips of paper, so check the backside!

  • Bursk #35 2 years ago

    It's a disgrace...

    It's a fucking disgrace! *Drogba*

  • JayG #36 2 years ago

    Lol, thanks a lot, missed that. Was the mass effect armour. Be easier to keep it all in the manual though.

  • eisenhorn666 #37 2 years ago

    Shale was meant to be in the game, but was cut as some have noticed when they could not get him to work. The model was to big and they didn't have the time to fix him. They found the time when they delayed the game so that the pc and console versions could be released at the same time. shale even mentions he was to big to fit through doors in some of his speech which I found funny :) I believe the game was locked, and the console porting began leaving time for them to get shale to fit

    I loved all the dlc, if you don't want to pay for it no one is putting a gun to your head forcing you to buy it.... just your loss

  • CosmicGypsy #38 2 years ago

    @mingster
    "Nothing annoys pirates its all designed to piss off legitimate consumers"

    This clearly sounds like the kind of thing large multinationals like to do. The heads of companies like EA are essentially business-trolls, searching for most ingenious way to piss off their customer base.

    Logic is overrated anyway mingester. I think you took the best approach when you decided to make your decisions based on blind rage and ignorant conjecture.

  • JeremyRPS #39 2 years ago

    I know this kinda goes against convention, but only in software does having to pay for content come with so many unrealistic expectations. It's not like code just propagates itself magically into existence, art assets divinely etch themselves into stone slabs for use, sound effects arrive fortuitously upon the desk of the designer. Working for a software company myself, it is amazing how people actually view our products. Hundreds of people put effort into creating what may seem a simple thing, and customers seem to just expect a ridiculously low price, or no price at all. It doesn't really make sense to me that a company shouldn't get paid for a product that they've created, any company, not just software.

  • Rack #40 2 years ago

    Are games really that ridiculously cheap? Dragon Age is a bit of an exception but most other games have had a similar amount of effort put into them in comparison to movies, and offer a similar value of entertainment yet cost 5 or 6 times as much.

    It's a weird way Bioware went about the DLC, Shale is a very clever and maybe even rather consumer friendly move, but Wardens Keep is outrageously priced. If we were to buy the game at this rate it would cost something in the region of £1000. I suppose if you think that's fair then even the crappiest cash in sequel is outrageously cheap.

    Taken as a whole I'd have had no objection paying a fiver more for Dragon Age than most other games as it's clearly worth it, but this mix of advertising and holding back core features is rather annoying. Worse still is the likelihood that if I don't buy another 5 hours of content for £100 then coming back to the game I won't be able to move for dozens of people hawking in game DLC at outrageous prices.

  • Rack #41 2 years ago

    Oh yeah, and a big reason why it's only in software consumers have so many unrealistic expectations is that it's only in software that not being subjected to vast amounts of blatant product sabotage an unrealistic expectation. Yeah Razors are designed to blunt quickly and cameras get features yanked out of them but at least they have the decency to do it sneakily behind our backs and in unison. With software one company will expect you to buy their game 2 or 3 times, another will take out core features to help them sell overpriced addons while others will stick obnoxious advertising right in your face.

    With game publishers so dedicated to making enemies of their customers it's little wonder they begin to resent it.

  • dither #42 2 years ago

    I wonder if you bought all the DLC, how much this game will end up costing?

  • Gastrian #43 2 years ago

    I have to be honest and say its quite clear that the reviewer and vast majority of the forum posters have never dealt with DLC for Bioware games before.

    Shale is not that special as far as DLC is concerned, if you look at the WeiDu content ( a fan made toolset) they were making voiced characters with origin stories, new quests, new npcs, new dialogue options, rejigged dialogue options so it fitted in with existing content and even existing mods, new weapons, game balancing, new AI routines for monsters, etc. Shale I've seen plenty of times before.

    Now regarding Day One DLC. Penny Arcade brought up a good point and that for RPGs anything that comes out after the player has finished the game is worthless. Look at Fallout 3, Oblivion and Fable. A lot of the DLC added nothing to the gaming experience, they extended it but most people had already played and finished the game, they weren't willing to replay again for the sake of a single mission and a new weapon. Say the Stone Prisoner was released in January for half the price, how many of you would buy it and replay the entire game just for a single NPC? A lot less than the number of people whinging about first day dlc thats for sure.

  • hiddenranbir #44 2 years ago

    Bioware are not strangers to DLC. Look at NWN.

  • Eraysor #45 2 years ago

    Broken Steel was a good example of how to do RPG DLC, especially seeing as it made the other content packs worth playing again too.

    My two main problems with this DLC is firstly, Shale was probably supposed to be in the game all along and was simply cut out to irritate pirates and to recoup some of the losses from second-hand sales.

    Secondly, it ruins the atmosphere somewhat when a quest that seems fully built into the game is locked off requiring a real-world purchase. It's just plain irritating to have it sitting in your quest log, as if the game is requiring another purchase for you to actually finish it.

    What'll it be like when they release more DLC that you don't purchase? Will there be a horde of NPCs around your camp clamouring for cash?

  • UncleLou #46 2 years ago

    The game's so utterly wonderful, I bought Warden's Keep (Shale is enclosed with the Steam copy, anyway) just to extend the time of my first playthrough.

    Haven't loved a game as much since Stalker.

  • Skurmedel #47 2 years ago

    It is, only trouble I have is juggling Alistair and Morrigan, they should shut up and get a room.

  • Bodd #48 2 years ago

    Shale is the HK-47 of Dragon Age. There is no higher recommendation.

    (Until they give us a Minsc clone)

  • WMain00 #49 2 years ago

    Haha what's this? You're not done beating the game death, so you decided to come back for more? Geez...

  • Fubdub #50 2 years ago

    I won't buy the DLC for two reasons, first is the obviously cost, £5 for an hours worth seems alot. The second reason is the magical moon money system they use, What the fuck is 560 BioWare points? What is the good reason for them not use normal payments?

  • Eisenstein #51 2 years ago

    People just paid up to 60 € (except some Brits) for around 7h of SP fun with CoD MW2 (of course there is always MP too). I got DA and the two DLCs for 55 € and had already nearly 50h of fun and I'm not even finished yet with the first play-through. I agree that they need to keep the quality of the current DLC (Shale is brilliant and is in my party whenever possible) and step up the quantity to keep me buying, but 7 € for 1h is sadly par-for-course nowadays in terms of €/h gameplay.

  • Rack #52 2 years ago

    Is it par for the course? Or is it some games offer as little as that but most offer a lot more? The games that do offer so little are either so brilliantly structured and balanced that gamers would think little of coming back to them for a little fresh content, or are just plain bad value. However much I'm enjoying Dragon Age the lack of care and attention to the design enabling it to be quite so much longer than MW2 is evident. I'm happy enough to accept a little roughness if it means I get that much more game time (and it seems the main Dragon Age game over-delivers here) but it seems the only reason I should accept the DLC is out of consideration that Bioware made such an amazing game in the first place.

  • Azazel #53 2 years ago

    @Dan260775 & Guildenstern: Good good! Thanks!

  • Lukey__b #54 2 years ago

    First off, I dont own the game.

    But.... I personally think the free DLC you get as a new buyer is a good idea. Its a good way of making an incentive to buy it new, or for them to make money off of the 2nd hand buyers. Heck, if your buying it 2nd hand and you dont want to pay extra for it then dont buy the DLC..... just like every choice you make about DLC. Again, good business idea from Bioware.

    The wardens keep DLC with the loot box. Well, that sucks to be honest. It quite clearly should be in the game already.... it was released at the same time and it adds something you would expect to already be in there. So it should already be in there.
    Its like Fifa making you pay an extra fiver for DLC so that you can change your throw in taker. Sure, you can get by without it.... but its so obviously intended to be in the game already and such a small thing.... well, its just petty really.

    Makes me feel glad that Im going to play the game without paying for any of it. Muahahaha.

  • TheJuriel #55 2 years ago

    Shale is awesome. That is all.

    Warden's Keep really is high quality, and offers greatly useful things that still aren't broken powerful.

    These are pretty great DLC offerings, though I do wish they do something longer the next time.

  • draycen #56 2 years ago

    Really Oli, 6 and 8 out of 10?! REALLY?! For both you mention the steep price and that neither take long to complete, but then give them overly high scores. Why?

    I really don't agree with DLC of this nature* at all, in any game. It's a really bad sign of the times that developers now seem to think they can get away with removing chunks from their games and then charge people extra to have them back. You said yourself how well Shale was integrated which says it all.

    For me also the price is the icing on the cake. It's bad enough that they're doing this at all, but to charge 1200 points for one and about half that for the other is totally extortionate. The problem is of course that people quite happily lap it all up and thus developers/publishers are just going to continue milking us for all we're worth.

    * By this nature I mean released so close to the full game, that it has quite obviously been left out so they can release it as DLC the next week/month. DLC which is released later down the line and actually adds something new (ie. a lot of GTA4's DLC) is totally fine. As this is actually expanding on the game world and giving you reason to keep playing.
    Edited by 1 at 12/11/09 @ 10:48

  • JayG #57 2 years ago

    Hmm, finally get the stone prisoner installed, and the npc starter won't talk to me. He does on earlier save games though. My big worry about DLC is the half heartedness of some of it. Fallout 3 was my fav game of last year, but instead of a decent expansion we ended up getting incredibly varied snack's that beside's the level increase didn't really add that much to the overall experience. Still, DAO is a great game and hopefully will get the success it deserves.

  • gmmonkey #58 2 years ago

    In my opinion shale is my strongest character. I tried to use alistair to tank, but he sucked, I did the shale quest, got him, used him and I no longer die, especially with wynne in the group. He does more damage than my rogue with right crystals!

  • SheffieldSteel #59 2 years ago

    No, I don't think Bioware will be able to repeat the success of the Stone Prisoner, because it was designed from the start as part of the main game. More likely, they will be able to repeat the controversy and debatable value-for-money of Warden's Keep. This makes me kind of sad but we'll see.

    The worst thing about the Stone Prisoner is that some people downloaded the game and (not understanding which of the dozen or so free / premium / free-but-also-premium downloads they were entitled to) then went out and paid for it. These people are now in a "good luck getting your money back" situation.

  • Trikk #60 2 years ago

    But that would be to misunderstand what BioWare is doing with DLC, and how amazingly well-integrated this pack is with the game as a whole.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but what they have essentially done is create a full-fledged game then cut out the most impressive optional parts in order to sell the full game for $100+ instead of just the standard RRP.

  • GenuineEntropy #61 2 years ago

    Well, at least the tone of the written portion of the review(s) and the score(s) given seem consistent this time...

    [Snark edit]
    How's Warcraft going for yah Oli, the hamster wheel starting to squeak at all yet? ;)
    Edited by 1 at 12/11/09 @ 16:39

  • dratomic #62 2 years ago

    8/10 for something costing 15 euros which gives you one hour worth of content and an added character. Seriously, comeone. In my humble opinion a very important factor should be that DLC should be a maximum(!) of 1 euro per hour playtime. If it cant reach that standard then it's wasted money and a 1/10 per default.

    [Edit]
    Whilst on the topic of euros wtf is up with us euros getting the shaft with those MS Points... $15 equals €12 at the most not even ffing close to the €15,- we pay for those lame points. UK conversion rate seems about right, whats up with that?
    Edited by 2 at 12/11/09 @ 17:08

  • JeremyRPS #63 2 years ago

    DLC should be a great thing, but I do agree that the value is sometimes way off. I think Bethesda got really close with Fallout 3 in terms of getting what you pay for, it hit 2 out of the 5 add ons as being valuable additions (in my opinion at least). What BioWare will need to do is work out a way to fit in either a) enough content in terms of time and story or b) enough content in terms of bonus items, skills, talents. Getting a set of armor that I normally couldn't get is not enough, a 1 hour campaign is not enough (especially in a game that is already so unbelievably varied), but put the 2 together and that might be worth the buying price.

    One thing this game does have going for it that others don't, specifically coming to my mind is Mass Effect, is the huge replayability of the game. They could add some new stuff down the line that could inspire me to start a new character, try a new origin or something like that, hey, they could even add a few new origins and that would certainly be worth my money :) I didn't want to play through Mass Effect again just to get access to 1 planet that took 2 minutes to finish. Not worth it.

  • Druskov #64 2 years ago

    I don't get why you people decide to just yammer on about something so little as with some games for example Two Worlds (consoles version) really had little thought put into it and it nearly costs 60 dollars when i paid for it and I will always regret buying it for the low detail and overall gameplay that a 3 year old could come up with as with DOA it is a game that I respect for its deep storyline and its boldness to actually have dlc right at launch... Now personally I like how the games characters are my party and so forth, but I enjoy addons like Wardens keep because it adds more story to it and if you didnt get the bonus dlc with the game (which by the way saves you nearly 20 dollars in expenses) then I dont know why you didnt not to mention if you dont buy premium of course you will get same bull like in fable, there will always be a npc to sitting there saying buy my stuff! Now if you guys think your good reviewers try out the game and dont use your own feelings and what you like think big and say "Well even though this isnt my type of rpg its still a great game and has good gameplay that will entertain all" just because you dont like it doesnt mean others dont and if your not the real reviewer then shush because I like dlc and personally dont want to see it just vanish cause some loudmouths decided to rant how sucky a game was. There spoke my mind.

  • metalangel #65 2 years ago

    Stuff these two year plans, stuff these Day One DLCs, I can't think of many other products that I'd buy new that were so clearly incomplete.

    I came to Mass Effect a bit late (always intended to play it, but was busy with other games) so when I did finally get it, Bring Down The Sky was already out and slotted perfectly into the game. But two things:
    1. Are you REALLY going to start a 50-something hour RPG again just because a new subquest or whatver has been added? Because I sure as hell didn't restart Mass Effect again for the sake of Pinnacle fucking Station.
    2. HAD I lapsed in judgement and done so for Bring Down The Sky, I'd have been absolutely livid - that cost, that inconvenience (suffering the cool-the-first-time-but-dreary-the-umpteenth-time Eden Prime and Citadel bits) just for the sake of a quest that was over in about 90 minutes.

    Sorry, game makers, if you want us to buy DLC, it has to be a whacking huge chapter that would have been an Expansion Disc in the old PC days. NOT Knothole Island (waste of money), NOT Bring Down The Sky, NOT the Orrery, and NOT Warden's Keep (which everyone would rightly ignore were it not for that magic storage chest)

    (and on another note, Broken Steel seems like a deliberate holdback to me too. The original story undoubtedly took in its events too, but they decided to chop it where the boxed game jarringly ends)

  • UncleLou #66 2 years ago

    By this nature I mean released so close to the full game, that it has quite obviously been left out so they can release it as DLC the next week/month

    Why was it "left out"? You're just making that up. DA is absolutely massive as it is. Far more likely, it was developed extra because they knew they would charge for it.

    DLC which is released later down the line and actually adds something new (ie. a lot of GTA4's DLC) is totally fine

    Doesn't matter bugger all whether it was developed at the same time as the main game or six months later and then released as DLC if it was only developed in the first place as DLC.

    The problem aren't people "lapping this up", the problem are people whinging about DLC noone forces you to buy in a game that easily lasts you 60-80 hour in a single playthrough anyhow. Spoilt to the core.

    Edited by 2 at 12/11/09 @ 23:46

  • Grayvern #67 2 years ago

    Shale was cut from the main campaign because of time constraints. Which doesant sound like an excuse most Black Isle and Bioware RPGS have had last minute cut quests that have most of the files left for them as junk. The only differance here is that they cleaned out the junk files and fixed him after ther game had entered production. Everyone wins and for once im not being punished for buying something early.

    However wardens keep is a rip off, the art assets are nice but bioware cant expect people to keep paying so much for so little.
    Edited by 1 at 13/11/09 @ 03:49

  • uk_john #68 2 years ago

    BEWARE!!!! Once you leave the Keep, you are not allowed back in! So take a Rouge who can open chests and check every nook and cranny, because if you miss it, you'll never have it! The merchant, blacksmith and storage chest are all outside in the Courtyard. The NPC's keep warm with a big bonfire the in the cold snow of the peak!

    All the promotion for this spoke of 'owning a keep', no review has mentioned this fact, and I think the whole DLC is a conspiracy between Bioware and the media to malke sure you don't know this!

    I don't consider it a spoiler, because it has nothing to do with the 'story' of Warden's Keep. I just tghought gamers should know the truth before they spent their money - because the general consensus is that you end up owning the Keep and are able to stay INSIDE it!!!!

  • karstux #69 2 years ago

    What's really irritating, for me at least, is how they put this Levi Dryden DLC character into the main game. So when I saw him in camp the first time, I had no idea he was advertising for DLC. Talked to him, heard his story, then tried to commence his quest... only to end at the toll booth. Pissed me off to no end, no fucking way I'm buying this.

    What's next, ingame merchants where you have to pay with real money?

  • uk_john #70 2 years ago

    @karstux: Yes.

  • osh #71 2 years ago

    I guess no one mentioned Shale is female :p. And the planned DLC is quite exciting actually...

  • GamerWales #72 2 years ago

    Re: Stone Prisoner. I can't help but wonder whether you're not just buying a new character.