Molyneux "ashamed" of Fable III scores

By Robert Purchese Published 27 June, 2011

Wasn't the game "I dreamed it would be".

Peter Molyneux was "pretty ashamed" with the low-80s average review score Fable III received from critics.

Not because reviewers were wrong or harsh - but because they were right.

"I still think it was a good game," Molyneux told Gamasutra. "I just don't think it was a great game that took us to 5 million units.

"I know I probably should say it's a great game just respective of whatever it was, but the Metacritic score was sort of low-80s.

"I'm pretty ashamed of that, to be honest, and I take that on my own shoulders, not the team's shoulders.

"When you have something like that, which you can feel as a kick in the teeth, you have to pick yourself up and fight even harder."

"It didn't end up being the game that I dreamed it would be."

Peter Molyneux

Even though Fable III will "net out" with the PC version close to 5 million sales, Molyneux said that that is "not the dream".

"It didn't end up being the game that I dreamed it would be, because I thought the mechanic of the ruling section were really good ideas. I thought they were good ideas, but we just didn't have time to exploit those ideas fully," he rued.

"I've been here before, and it just means that you've got to make whatever you do next twice as good. You're going to make the process and the planning process much, much better because, in the end, that's where you really suffer."

Fable III, as Molyneux - and lead combat designer Mike West before him - was Lionhead's shortest ever project. It took just two years.

"Last year we were just on the cusp of possibly getting everything we wanted in the game, or possibly having to come down and edit very heavily to finish the game in what was two years," said Molyneux. "You have to remember that Lionhead - especially me - has never created projects in less than two years. This was the first time we ever did that.

"We have lots of excuses, as you always do have excuses; but I don't think that's good enough."

Peter Molyneux

"When we came down to the edit, the ruling section in Fable [III] was the one that really suffered a lot. The edit was very harsh and hard to actually make the game fit.

Another feature Molyneux said suffered was the Road to Rule, whereby characters could open chests to improve various skills. This was supposed to be a tricky toss-up for players as to what they would spend their experience points on. But there wasn't enough time to balance and the final manifestation of the Road to Rule meant most chests could be opened and skills upgraded, which made the system flimsy and superfluous. Fable III was also victim of bugs and unoptimised passages of play - the hallmarks of a rushed release.

"I look at Fable III and it's hard to be completely honest without offending people; but I know, when I read in the middle of a review that said the quality just wasn't good enough, I actually agree with those reviews," admitted Molyneux.

"Lionhead can't afford to rest on its laurels of its fans and produce low-quality stuff. We have lots of excuses, as you always do have excuses; but I don't think that's good enough.

"For consumers it's very simple: there's a bright light here, and there's an even brighter light there. They're going to go towards the even brighter light, and why shouldn't they? You just can't sit on your hands and say, 'Well, we know how to do it. It's Fable, so that's the way we do it.' You just can't do that."

"I hate the fact that people know what to expect from something like Lionhead."

Peter Molyneux

Lionhead's output has been dominated by Fable since The Movies: Stunts & Effects was released in 2006. Next year, Lionhead will release Fable: The Journey, a first-person Kinect spin-off for the fantasy role-playing series. Predictable? Gimmicky? Perhaps - but they're two things Molyneux absolutely does not want Lionhead to be.

"I hate the fact that people know what to expect from something like Lionhead," he said. "'We know what Fable's going to be; we know what's coming next from Lionhead.' I hate that idea.

"We should, again, double down on freshness and originality without sacrificing without sacrificing quality.

"We should take a deep look at what people really enjoy about the experiences that [we] might have made and try and focus on those rather than focus on the gimmicks, which we kind of love to develop.

"That is being a little bit self-critical," Molyneux added, "but I think that there's times that you have to be self-critical. I think the worst thing that could have happened to Fable III is if it sold 4.99 million, because I think that would have made us slightly complacent, and complacency is always the worst place to be, in my opinion.

Molyneux said that Lionhead approaches development in a "very different" way now. The studio knows up front "precisely" how long a game will be and how each of the mechanics will work within it.

"So we've got a very, very different process of designing now, which means that this time around if we did have a Journey to Rule or if we did have - I'm not saying that I'm giving you any clues there - then it's going to be part of that golden thread that we're making up to the player," said Molyneux.

"We've spent a long time thinking about that and doing our research on how you can have a creatively-led production process and how you can take the complete randomness out of the way that a lot of ideas are developed and evolved."

Peter Molyneux was awarded a BAFTA Fellowship earlier this year for his outstanding contribution to world of video games. During his emotional acceptance speech Molyneux apologised for over-promising during interviews - a technique he said he fell back on to "stop journalists going to sleep".

Fable: The Journey.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (111) Latest comment 8 months ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • captain_Carl #1 8 months ago

    So he went and made an on-rails kinect shooter instead.

    Good thinking, Pete

  • Eraysor #2 8 months ago

    Bought the 360 version preowned a couple weeks ago. It's so easy, and thus boring. I've watched TV while mashing the X button and won many fights without looking at the screen.

  • RockTwist #3 8 months ago

    Here's a tip, dump the Kinect crap and go back to Fable 1 for inspiration. That was a good game imo.

  • Innes #4 8 months ago

    Tell me lies tell me lies tell me sweet little lies.

  • merseymal #5 8 months ago

    I much preferred the control system from Fable 2. Loved F2's choice of which actions to perform especially when doing them to unlock Demon doors.

  • Geowolf #6 8 months ago

    Can we have our money back then?

  • oceanmotion #7 8 months ago

    Stop making excuses. I really dislike everything Lionhead now. They seem utterly clueless. It was a great idea but didn't work, again!

  • humble #8 8 months ago

    But the next one will be brilliant, right Peter?
    I actually like him quite a bit, but he's seriously like a broken record at times.

  • TheRoboZ #9 8 months ago

    It's actually the third game that" didn't end up being the game that you were dreaming... " to sell us! Good thing I got burned with the second one and passed. Sorry Peter, you were a good game designer once but you lost it....

  • StooMonster #10 8 months ago

    Firstly, I've currently got Fable 3 on 'pause' whilst I have started and plan to finish other titles (such as L.A. Noire), that tells me something about how I feel about it.

    Secondly, not sure I will actually go back at all and it will be 'stop' instead of 'pause', but saying that if I don't have anything else to play on my Xbox this summer then I will go back to it.

    Finally, from the less than 20% of it I have played ... it was all a bit too easy, and just felt like one was "going through the motions" hence my two points above.

  • telboy007 #11 8 months ago

    It would have been alright if the king bit at the end wasn't so f**king restrictive and boring - I've not even got past it to the end as that part was so disappointing.

  • HyperTails #12 8 months ago

    Ł10 says that he'll hype the Kinect Fable to be some 'super innovative hyper spectacular revolutionary fresh' game and then about 4 months after release he'll tell everyone how crap it was and that he promises the next game won't be like that. He'll promise.

  • JohnMagnum #13 8 months ago

    "I've been here before, and it just means that you've got to make whatever you do next twice as good. You're going to make the process and the planning process much, much better because, in the end, that's where you really suffer."

    All right, buddy. HOW long have you known that you need to make the process and the planning process much better? Half a year? More? We're all waiting on you to actually, y'know, DO SO.

  • Tyrhinis #14 8 months ago

    "Fable III, as Molyneux - and lead combat designer Mike West before him - was Lionhead's shortest ever project. It took just two years."

    How long did they spend on Molyneux, then?

  • chiefian #15 8 months ago

    I must have been the only person to enjoy Fable III for what it was. A good ol romp with 20+ hours of enjoyment.

  • Softie2k #16 8 months ago

    If he wasn't the boss, he'd be fired for over-promising and under-performing years ago.

  • metalangel #17 8 months ago

    Maybe this time he's paid attention to Yahtzee's review?

  • rudedudejude #18 8 months ago

    Lionhead = Style over Substance in so many of their releases.

    Get back to the bullfrog days - Style & substance

  • RumpyStumpy #19 8 months ago

    Doesn't he say something like this after all their games.

    If he doesn't think his products are as good as they should have been I ask myself why I should bother buying the next Fable?

    I have enjoyed each Fable but if Peter says that he constantly fails to deliver then you start to believe him and think that maybe you would be better off not investing in his vision.

    Although his bad games are a lot better than most peoples good games in my opinion so I will probably invest. I just don't want Peter to make me feel like im wrong to do so.

  • Whizzo #20 8 months ago

    Peter should be locked into a chair, with his eyes pried open Clockwork Orange style and forced to watch this on loop for 24 hours. It's not a perfect rant at why Fable 3 isn't very good but it's pretty decent.
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/11 @ 16:51

  • the_dudefather #21 8 months ago

    Tell you what, make a Dungeon Keeper 3 and I'll forgive you

  • octo #22 8 months ago

    Having massively enjoyed Fable 2 (playing it about a year after initial release as my first Fable game), I can say that Fable 3 was less fun, shorter, easier and more technically broken. It's a series I probably won't be returning to.

    Edited by 2 at 27/06/11 @ 16:58

  • AmethystSword #23 8 months ago

    I do say I think hes a nutcase :3

  • Kaonazhie #24 8 months ago

    Hey, I live near the Lionhead studio!

    I shall assimilate Peter Molyneux.

  • coolbritannia #25 8 months ago

    Sorry Pete, I gave you 2 chances, I skipped on 3. Fable is a series I shall not be returning to.

  • Shotofen #26 8 months ago

    Goddamint Molyneux, I want to like you and your games because you seem to care about the direction of the games industry. But then you make the same buggy, simplistic game again and again without readdressing the core mechanics. Please go back to the drawing board sometime soon and make a new series with depth, instead of just subtracting features from the Fable series and calling it a day.

  • FortysixterUK #27 8 months ago

    I quite enjoyed Fable 3.
    Appears I'm one of the few ?

  • riceNpea #28 8 months ago

    Molyneux has sold out and he knows it. so what does he want from us now?

    Molyneux don't tell us how upset you are. you made your choice and if you were any kind of man you would live with it in private instead of trying to unburden your guilt with false humility and misdirection.

    he could've been a great but he threw it all away and now he's just another developer. that i can understand, it's a common story but his 'poor me' attitude saddens me. accept who you are, do what you do and keep quiet.


  • schnide #29 8 months ago

    There were numerous, NUMEROUS people who on these very comment pages said he would come out and say this about Fable 3 once he'd already said it about Fable, and Fable 2 to promote the third game.

  • WeakOrbit #30 8 months ago

    Each Fable released has just being a graphical redo of the prior game.
    I expected a deep system for the Kings finance system rather than, "Invest money in whore house or orphanage."

    And come on the whole Pie Making Chest on the road to ruin or hero road.

    "I hate the fact that people know what to expect from something like Lionhead," he said plugging the latest game set in the Fable universe.
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/11 @ 17:08

  • Crea #31 8 months ago

    Molyneux lost some of the Fable core in the attempt to lure in a wider audience in Fable 3, in the chasing of the elusive 5m+ sales that pretty much only CoD, Halo and Gears of War get. I liked it, but thought it was a lesser game than 2.

    The roster of game features between the fable games changes too quickly - underdeveloped ideas are jettisoned for the next game when another outing would see them refined, and in their place we have yet more original, but ultimately underdeveloped features.

    Be happy with 3 or 4 million in sales, and keep the franchise core, otherwise the audience you currently have will bleed away. I would sacrifice a lot of the experimentation for a more polished and expansive RPG core, please.

  • markb1166 #32 8 months ago

    Glad I gave up half way through Fable 2, it is in teh games pile to finish one day.

  • bratmandu #33 8 months ago

    You lost me when you had me chopping wood in f2. The whole 'chapters' thing doesn't really do it for me either - especially in an rpg - it feels nothing you do really matters if a new chapter every few hours wipes any significant changes to the gameworld.

    Talk to Bethesda and Bioware - don't copy them, but at least look at why their games are successful before going off and creating a fairly linear mess with all sorts of novelty features like 'emotions', 'getting married', 'work!' and repetitive minigames. In other words, take your head out your ass once in a while, pete.

  • CheesecakeBobby #34 8 months ago

    Molyneux gets so much shit, but you don't see Miyamoto apologising or feeling ashamed for genuine shit like Wii music. Fable III was alright but certainly not up with Lionhead's best - that Peter recognises this gives me hope for their future output.

  • riceNpea #35 8 months ago

    @cheesecakebobby

    i think is even worse how Molyneaux behaves. he knows BEFORE he releases his games that they are a poor imitation of what he promises so to apologise AFTER and try to get people to sympathise with him marks him down a lowlife in my book. you given us crap have the decency to take the criticism and stop squirming.

  • darkmorgado #36 8 months ago

    Every single time he releases a game, he then complains that he didn't have time to finish it properly and they were rushed.

    Just once Peter, have the balls to say "it's done when its done". It works for id, Valve and Blizzard.

  • addugg #37 8 months ago

    I hate him so, so much.

    Fable 2 is great. Fable 2 was a bit shit, Fable 3 will be good though, Fable 3 was a bit shit, Journey will be good though.

    Does no-one see a pattern yet?

  • whatfruit #38 8 months ago

    Fable is the only game franchise I have known to get worse with each sequel. Bring back the mechanics that made fable 1 so good and forget about the stupid mini games and make a great hack and slash lite RPG.

  • Butch82 #39 8 months ago

    "I've been here before, and it just means that you've got to make whatever you do next twice as good."

    Setting himself (and us) up for another disappointment.

  • coolbritannia #40 8 months ago

    @addugg, yep, I hate him too.

  • metatron197924 #41 8 months ago

    after black and white your originality peter gone the road your hair gone.of course anyone know what to expect for you another one developer who wants money money money fable fable fable fable kinect fable ds?

  • metatron197924 #42 8 months ago

    after black and white your originality peter gone the road your hair gone.of course anyone know what to expect for you another one developer who wants money money money fable fable fable fable kinect fable ds?

  • teamtink #43 8 months ago

    I really enjoyed the Black and White franchise and the way it was supposed to be going, but it seemed to stop dead just when tactical systems were being built in to the game and that the races were becoming more interesting. But the focus has been on fable for so long now, we know Lionhead aren't a one trick pony, please lets have a new ip!

  • TheTrueSpin #44 8 months ago

    [link url=http://www.di gitalscrutiny.com/content/2011/06/the-most-annoying-people-i n-the-video-game-industry/
    ]http://ww w.digitalscrutiny.com/content/2...[/link]

    Molyneux, disappointed that the latest Fable wasn't as good as he had promised? Shocking... Naawwwwt!

  • AdamAsunder #45 8 months ago

    Seriously, just shut up Pete. In fact, if you could leave the industry completely that would be appreciated. Thanks.

  • dickothe1st #46 8 months ago

    Classic Molyneux, every fable game he brings out he apologises for it being shit. I have stopped taking notice of lionhead announcements regarding new titles as he always makes broken promises. The core fundamentals of fable's design are too simple so any depth added on top will always remain a mere distraction; stronger combat and increased challenge must be instilled into any new fable they make in future. He will only apologise once more for The Journey when it inevitably disappoints fans.

  • RevanNL #47 8 months ago

    And this guy is the head of Microsoft Game Studios. Guess that'll explain all the Kinect crap. To be fair, I did enjoy parts of Fable III, but Peter should take a long look in the mirror and wonder how every installment of Fable seems to be less enjoyable. A series should take the best parts of the first game and expand on them, not strip them out.

  • Jon1292 #48 8 months ago

    Oh man just look at how bored and grumpy the guy playing The Journey looks.

    At least the kids bothered to smile.

  • Smoped #49 8 months ago

    I still maintain Molyneux is a great game creator. He's just a horrible studio head.

  • Tryhard #50 8 months ago

    Peter Molyneux.Just like Marmite.You either love him or hate him.

  • hiscore #51 8 months ago

    Peter's last good game was Dungeon Keeper. Should have sticked with the Bullfrog instead of the Lionhead.

  • mortiz666 #52 8 months ago

    Peter Peter Peter, where did all your cool ideas go? He should have lived by the saying "It's better to burn out, than fade away" and left it when he had the chance.

  • Reaver_v1 #53 8 months ago

    I've been here before, and it just means that you've got to make whatever you do next twice as good.

    Instead you made things twice as worse with each iteration. Why agree to a 2 year deadline if you can't do what you want to do in that time?

  • darkphoenix #54 8 months ago

    Molyneux, a victim of his own hype. Again.

    Anything passes for news, these days.......

  • AdamAsunder #55 8 months ago

    @Tryhard.

    Hardly, marmite does what you expect of it.

  • immateriaux #56 8 months ago

    The man is a farce. Look back at his announcements just before Fable 3 was launched - he knew then what had and had not made the cut. It's a disgrace that he gets indulged so much when he so consistently, these days, treats game players like morons.

  • Mr.DNA #57 8 months ago

    I wonder whether Eurogamer are ashamed of the embarrassing 10/10 that they afforded Fable 2? I'll tell you this: they fucking should be.

  • scuffpuppies #58 8 months ago

    "It didn't end up being the game that I dreamed it would be." Peter Molyneux

    Hasn't he said the exact same thing after each Fable game?

  • bikmate #59 8 months ago

    Fable 1 ftw!

  • cheeky_BILLY #60 8 months ago

    Molyneux talks too much. just keep taking MS money and make a decent game.

  • Xardan #61 8 months ago

    Dont listen to the gaming community Pete. They are a bunch of moronic twats. Dont let scum bring you down.

  • TRUTH #62 8 months ago

    Fable 2 was just a bland fetch this and kill that game. The rpg was rather lite, with a simplistic A to B adventure. There was no real sense of discovery, with many mini quest basically worthless - hardly anything worth doing as all gaining from them was pathetic items, or money (which was available easily any way). It had mini games which were just time wasters. Your decisions good or bad made no real difference. The dog was just there to find a lot of worthless rubbish. Enemies were repetitive and very easy to beat using the same powers again and again...A game that became incredibly boring after a 3hrs as you find that it's just a empty simplistic adventure lead by the hand game, with worthless rpg elements.

    Fable III - this was a joke!


    Edited by 1 at 27/06/11 @ 19:00

  • NewbieZilla #63 8 months ago

    Fable is a very apt term for what Molyneux spouts to hype a game, and it is only suckers who believe it.

  • Peter_LIAR_Molyneux #64 8 months ago

    I'm surprised this article didn't end with Peter saying "Look forward to Fable 4 coming out next year. We now know how to use a paltry 2 year development cycle to create the best RPG the world has ever seen. I promise."

  • dagas #65 8 months ago

    This is what he always says and then he claims his next game will be the best game ever and the cycle goes on and on. So far he has only made worse and worse games IMO. His "improvements" are "fixing" things that don't need fixing while that which does need fixing he leaves untouched.

  • Jdm79 #66 8 months ago

    I would pay good money for a Kinect game where I get to punch Peter Molyneux in the face until it explodes into a big bloody mess. The guy is the biggest cock ever who makes mediocre games which become increasingly more mediocre with each miserable tedious sequel. What a douchebag. Anyone who gives a fuck about metacrtic scores has failed already. Fuck the system that forces shitty sequel after shitty sequel at us. How about some fucking innovation? No just give us Super Battlefield Call of Fable: Modern Combat Evolved Kinect on Rails Edition. Cunt.

  • ajaxpliskin #67 8 months ago

    It's time to remake Magic Carpet! PLEASE!

  • ronuds #68 8 months ago

    Love Fable and love PM. If he wants to make a better game, I'm all for it!

    Let's fawn all over the guys who make "generic shooter # 475,000" though. Seems like that'll get us places.
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/11 @ 19:26

  • man.the.king #69 8 months ago

    @Xardan

    "Dont listen to the gaming community Pete. They are a bunch of moronic twats. Dont let scum bring you down."

    Yes "Pete", feedback of the community that actually plays your games is useless indeed, please just listen to the band of yes-men in your office. And oh yes, please do listen to Xardan as well. He WILL like ANYTHING you do.

  • OliverH #70 8 months ago

    And again, 90% of the EG comments is nothing but mudslinging. The article shows quite clearly what the problem is: Instead of publishing games "when it's done", these days even names like Peter Molyneux don't manage to stand their ground against the beancounters. And frankly, I have to laugh when some here advise him to take some hints from Bioware. DA2 anyone? When they don't even have the time to make unique environments but rather recycle every map over and over again until you could waltz through every area of the game blindfolded, it's quite clear that the issue is not that Molyneux has lost his touch but that the big money behind the studios insists on throwing the smallest publishable unit onto the market to make money fast. Plus it gives them the opportunity to cash in a second time with DLC. It's the salami tactics of game publishing. Unfortunately, no amount of slices stacked together will make one whole salami, nor will a handful of slices called "Fable 3" make a dream game. The point here is Molyneux complaining, I bet Microsoft will be quite happy with the money he's bringing them - to them, the ratings only matter inasmuch as they affect sales. If they don't, what do they care?

    Given the demand of today's games, and the amount of people involved in creating them (Seen the ruckus about all the people feeling excluded from the LA:Noire credits) it is frankly mind boggling to believe that people want to finish a game such as Fable 3 in the same time it took to make the sequel to "Populous". Bethesda took four years from Morrowind to Oblivion and even five years from Oblivion to Skyrim, if the latter finishes on time. Compare Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2, which was also pushed through the pipeline within 2 years. Quality takes time.

  • Dexter2015 #71 8 months ago

    cant believe that they did go work on kinect crap after :(

  • Daeltaja #72 8 months ago

    Fair enough Peter. At least you've admitted it. However, I suggest you curb Fable: The Journey, unless you want to continue down that road. Fable games were always day 1 for me, but after III, I'll be very cautious going forward.

    We do love you Peter, just take your time with your games and tell Microsoft to leave you's to it. You guys should be in the same category as Blizzard, Valve, ID, but with MS breathing down your necks, I'm afraid it will never happen.

  • ronuds #73 8 months ago

    @ Oliver

    Well said. Unfortunately, any article concerning Pete is guaranteed to spurn at least 100 nasty comments. It's unfortunate. Fable is meant to be a game that anyone can enjoy and I find that it is. It's certainly one of the few that someone like my wife will play. It isn't meant to be some hard core RPG that you die in a thousand times, which it seems many people don't understand, given how many "it's too easy" comments you see.

    The fact of the matter is, Albion is supposed to be a great place to wander and the quests are meant to be funny and cute - and in that it succeeds. There's no doubt I felt Fable III was a poorer effort than II, but I still enjoyed it quite a bit... even if I didn't have to retry every section 30 times from being killed.

    We complain about developers making the same drivel over and over and that they only care about the bottom line, but when someone who seems genuinely interested in doing something different, trying new things, and making gamers of all types happy, we shit on them. It's very discouraging being a gamer these days - not only because of the "me too" games that are produced, but because the most vocal of the gaming community acts like children pounding their arms and legs on the ground because someone took their pacifier.

    I mean, people "hate" the guy. Really? How old are you - 5? He seems like a pretty cool guy to have a pint and talk about games with, imo.

  • immateriaux #74 8 months ago

    Fucking Lionhead staff have joined the conversation I see.

  • Bluetooth #75 8 months ago

    Here's a tip Pete - try not to repackage DLC as a proper sequel .

  • ronuds #76 8 months ago

    I know - a positive comment about something. How dare we.

  • immateriaux #77 8 months ago

    Oliver, note how Molyneaux promised us the best Fable ever just 29 days before game release. He didn't seem bothered by the timeline then, did he? He was quite happy to go along with pushing Fable 3 out incomplete, just as he had been quite happy to do that with Fable 2. No one doubts quality takes time but people take aversion to having the piss taken out of them by an obvious charlatan like Molyneaux.

  • Kaminari #78 8 months ago

    @Peter

    That's what happens when you put yourself on a pedestal.

    Populous was great, but that was 20 years ago.

  • menage #79 8 months ago

    It wasn't teribble, but he practically admits it wasn't finished. And it really showed in the ruling section.

    Needed another year, maybe 2 even.

    I don't get the hate for tyhe man. Yes he's a very enthusiastic man that oversells his ideas, but he hardly makes games as bad as the drivel you see in the charts every week. I actually think he's one of the good guys.
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/11 @ 20:25

  • Dave #80 8 months ago

    Ok, so he tried putting a I behind Fable II, which didn't work. Now it's time to put a V behind Fable I.

  • gusbuster #81 8 months ago

    and here we go again. I don't know what Lionhead is gonna do next, like he said. but I know for sure what Molyneux is gonna say... sameoldsameold

  • TAPNGO #82 8 months ago

    this is why i think microsoft has cut back on exclusives, the list of game developers that took the money and failed is ridiculous.

  • Rack #83 8 months ago

    Honestly, the kingdom idea was a great one. The reality is MS were never going to allow it. More shooters, more rushed sequels and above all moar Kinect crap is what they demand.

  • kenichi-san #84 8 months ago

    I actually enjoyed Fable 3, atleast more then Fable 2, but i'm sick of hearing pete's "excuses". First he says big things about the next game, then after it's launched - "Not what we hoped for/We couldn't do what we REALLY wanted" or something like that...

    On the note: Fable 1 is still the best :)

  • Xardan #85 8 months ago

    All this Fable and Peter Molyneux hate is unbelievable.

    I mean who are all these people and are they not mentally unstable?

  • RodHull #86 8 months ago

    I really enjoyed playing Fable 3, Albion is always a riotous place to be in and some of the quests were inspired. Yet I preferred the mechanics of Fable 2, especially the superb combat system. Bring it back for part IV, Peter!

  • Kamata #87 8 months ago

    All Peter Molynuex has ever been is an extremely enthusiastic games designer/developer.
    All the games Lionhead release fall short somewhere. Let's hope he does learn to button his hatch and let Lionhead do the talking through quality games. Fable 1 has been their best effort in my opinion.



  • curtlikesmeat #88 8 months ago

    I think Fable is far eclipsed by other games of the same genre (Witcher, Elder scrolls etc.) and as such, having had a few attempts at it they should just ditch it now. Make a new IP or dig out one of your old ones (if they have the rights to Bullfrog stuff?) which is old enough to be reworked from the ground up.

  • suicidal_penguins #89 8 months ago

    His dedication to poor unfinished games is indeed unique, he's a great example to any software house that wants to only half try and be paid for it.

  • Vanmunt #90 8 months ago

    I think the EG should be more ashamed of the 10 it gave fable 2..

  • crustydribbler #91 8 months ago

    Maybe he should stop dreaming about the games and get his finger out!
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/11 @ 21:57

  • OliverH #92 8 months ago

    @immateriaux

    Obvious charlatan? Let me tell you something: The obvious charlatans here are the folks who wouldn't be able to run a lemonade stand for profit but grandstand about how people should run their business. Yes, Molineux promised the best Fable ever before release. You know what? If he had said anything else, he'd never seen release day as head of Lionhead because MGS would have replaced him the very day he would have made such a statement. Apparently you don't grasp that had he said anything critical before launch, he would have harmed the business he is supposed to run. Now that the rankings are in, his comments can't do any damage anymore because he merely states that he agrees with rankings that are in the world anyway.

    Why do you think MGS acquired Lionhead? To give you a fuzzy feeling? Bill Gates might be funding plenty of charities, but that money has to be made somewhere. And here's one spot it is made. And Molyneux's task is to make that money. If he not only doesn't, but sabotages doing so by making negative statements before launch, he can watch over Lionhead from the outside in future.

  • GooseUK #93 8 months ago

    It was the weird motion blur effect that killed it for me, the game itself was good, but i couldnt play because my eyes really hurt

  • HyperTails #94 8 months ago

    I'm sure he's a really nice bloke and all (he certainly comes across as one), but his constant hyping and then putting down of games once everyone's bought it (and its DLC) is just odd. And I still can't get over the fact that this guy got voted 'Best game developer ever' or whatever the hell it was that he won. Seriously, what. the. fuck?
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/11 @ 22:51

  • Subdominator #95 8 months ago

    The reason why your games are rated worse with each new iteration is not because you rush them or don't get to do what you want: It's because they are exactly the annoying overly easy replays of the same story that you want them to be. I played Fable 1 for months, three full playthroughs (pure good, pure evil, real estate broker). There were three, maybe four things about Fable 2 that made me not even play the demo: The dog. I hate dogs. I like cats. If you try to sell me a game because it has a variety of nice dogs to be my buddies I only think about killing that stupid dog. No cats/tigers/lions, not buying. Then the whole thing about the story. It was a shameless remake of Fable set some years in the future. Again you start as a child, grow up, yadda yadda yadda. It's nice the first time but then, please, come up with something original. Also, same environment? Not cool. I don't care how much it changed, I don't buy the same game twice. No Crackdown 2, no Saint's Row 2, no Fable 2. And I loved all three of those games. And then the farting. It wasn't funny in the first game, it sure as hell wasn't funny in the second. If you're not able to come up with a Bioware like dialogue system then for god's sake just make all characters mute. The emotion system in Fable sucks. And of course broken promises. I'm still waiting for the "trees will grow" stuff he promised for Fable 1/Project Ego.

    Molyneux is just annoying these days. To think he was the genius behind Theme Park, Populous, Syndicate, Magic Carpet, Dungeon Keeper, Black&White feels like a different person. Of course Fable was never his idea. He just adopted it when he started the Lionhead satelites and the Carter twins at Big Blue Box wanted to work with him. They've obviously become so annoyed by Molyneux that they have left Lionhead to work on shitty iOS games.

    I think the discontinuation of B.C. was when things really started to go downhill. And I still don't get why Molyneux, after the trainwreck that Bullfroh ended up being after having sold his company to EA, chose to sell his second company to Microsoft. Did he really think there would be a future? Ensemble was closed after a successful game. Bungie went back to being indie because they didn't want to do Halo for the rest of their life. Turn 10 makes Forzas. Five in seven years. Rare - LOL,they will make Avatar gear and Kinect Sports until they die. And Lionhead has to do Fable here and Fable there. Molyneux' project Dimitri? Will never see the light of day, despite being in development for ten+ years. Lionhead is dead.

    And not only because of Microsoft but because Molyneux wants each new game to be easier and easier so that even the dumbest of all dumb people can play through. He should make movies.

  • drewman5150 #96 8 months ago

    Assuming he actually reads this thread, Peter for crying out loud - stop with the rhetoric, I've bought into every Fable game so far based on your spiel - why? Because in my slowly maturing mind I actually believe that I will be buying into something special.
    Unfortunately, it seems my definition of special does not tally up with your urban dictionary translation.
    As someone earlier posted, go back to the first game, look at what made that magical - because that is what I think is missing - where kicking chickens does feel immature, albeit rewarding not contrived and 'paying homage'

  • Tomo #97 8 months ago

    The guy is a fucking legend. He's going on record talking frankly about the mistakes he's made and he's still getting burned in here. How many other devs would have the gonads to do this?!

  • MrE26 #98 8 months ago

    I actually really enjoyed Fable III, but it was basically an over-simplified version of Fable II. Plus the economy was completely broken, meaning it was far too easy to amass a fortune in gold, which then made the choices at the end completely meaningless. And the 'point of no return' at the end of the game literally came out of nowhere, completely fucking up a lot of the things people were working towards.

    The games have a lot of charm & i love the world of Albion, but the game mechanics have been stripped down to their most basic core & for everything they improve from the previous game, they seem to fuck up two more.

    Combine the best parts of all 3 games & you might actually have something worth yelling about Peter.

  • Sevens #99 8 months ago

    '"It didn't end up being the game that I dreamed it would be, because I thought the mechanic of the ruling section were really good ideas. I thought they were good ideas, but we just didn't have time to exploit those ideas fully," he rued.

    "I've been here before, and it just means that you've got to make whatever you do next twice as good. You're going to make the process and the planning process much, much better because, in the end, that's where you really suffer."'

    ... uh. Twice as good? And that ends up being this Kinect nightmare... huh. Oh come on, that's what you get when you dumb down and go for "accessibility" and the "broader audience". An 80s rating is way to high, consider yourself lucky, please.

    That aside, I'd prefer 2,5 to 3 years of development as an average. Quality over quantity (and quickness) would be nice. Of course reality oftentimes gets in the way of that.

  • Kami #100 8 months ago

    Molyneux, we need to talk.

    I do love Albion and the world of Fable. It's whimsical, charming and packed with very BRITISH humour and wit. We like that. We like that very very much.

    The problem is, one cannot subsist on wit alone. And that is where Fable always falls down - the plot is at best shallow. The games are at best simplistic and linear. The side quests are at best distractions and at their very worst unforgivably annoying. The lack of a HUD is crazy. Taking out content and selling it back to us just to have DLC at the start is disgusting. On that note, the pricing for DLC is way off at times too.

    What we want from you is an Action Adventure that is deep, interesting and one that rewards good play and skill, and yet retains all of that whimsical charm and humour that clearly makes Albion such a gorgeous place to be at times. Fable 3 was shallow. It's like going to a theme park that is famed for its water flume only to find out it's about 5 metres long and has no twists and turns in it. Straight down. Splash. The end.

    The plot and the game need to grow up and become a proper action adventure with a few more RPG elements. All this social bollocks and interaction crap needs to go. If there's a world that needs to be saved, give us the means and make it actually a threat that feels epic and threatening. Make the journey scenic, but packed with characters that carry that brand of wit and charm. Give us systems and mechanics that feel like we have some CONTROL over our destiny, rather than "Do this x-hundred times, shiny new upgrade, do this for another shiny upgrade. Now you can't upgrade this any more, har-de-har-har, bye!".

    The world is crying out for a decent action-adventure RPG. We haven't really had one for a while now - not a truly decent one, that is (I am so going to regret saying that...). Fable could so easily fit into this niche and be the best thing ever. Take your time. Get it right. Why rush? If a job is worth doing, isn't it worth doing properly?

    Just make a really, really good Fable. The ingredients are there. All of them are on the table. Just get the order right, mix it up thoroughly and bake for a decent amount of time. We should end up with a brilliant game. All we've had so far is chicken that is still raw in the middle...

    Fable doesn't need to die. It's a fantastic concept. It just needs love. Give it love. And it will love you back.

    Kindest Regards,

    Kami

  • Kami #101 8 months ago

    @ guillotine; It's not so much bias as just misjudging it.

    Fable has always been shallow. And Molyneux has always over-promised and under-delivered on it. 10/10? Not really. I think most Fable fans will even say the games are never that - they are all flawed. All too linear. All too shallow. All too rushed. I don't know many who would defend this franchise - it's all a bit of a cock-up really.

    But Fable is a great idea. Molyneux needs to make it work - and if that means he tells the suits to %Ł^$ off and leave him alone for a year so he can MAKE A BLOODY GAME, I am all for it. He needs to knuckle down and say "Right, forget the hype and the BS and everything we've done. Let's make the BEST Fable game ever - if not the best game ever!".

    There is potential in there for this to be a reality. Molyneux needs to let it happen and try and keep flights of fancy out - and if he can't, then he should pass it on to someone who really can.

    It's all a wasted opportunity. Fable should be a LOT better than it is. They need to believe in it. And we need to believe in it.

    ...

    The best start to that is scrap The Journey and start again. They'll NEVER escape that E3 reveal. It will haunt them. Every waking hour of their lives. Bury it, lament it and start again. We'll understand.

  • Inmediasress #102 8 months ago

    Someone should put him out of his misery and into a mental institution he clearly has serious problems.

  • Murton #103 8 months ago

    "Not because reviewers were wrong or harsh - but because they were right."

    So when translated into straight English, he's ashamed of the game rather than the reviews, and so he should be. He took a franchise that began accessible to the mainstream but appealing to the core and dumbed it beyond oblivion with mechanics like single button combat. Hopefully he's learned his lessons from Fable.

    Lesson one: it's under-promise and over-deliver, not the other way round
    Lesson two: when you set a benchmark with game 1, maintain that throughout the series, don't dumb down the sequels as EA/Bioware have learned recently with ME and DA

  • Diabeu #104 8 months ago

    dear Peter,

    stop bitchin', are you 5 years old? FFS grow some balls

  • Kazama74 #105 8 months ago

    Haha, if only Kinect was as responsive as shown in that video. They either used a higer def camera, or the guy is just going through rehearsed motions while a video plays on the screen.

  • killuminati2911 #106 8 months ago

    Put Fable franchise to rest now!!

  • AkiraTenshi #107 8 months ago

    So ashamed that he then went on to make a Fable game that looks even worse.

  • Codger81 #108 8 months ago

    "It didn't end up being the game that I dreamed it would be."

    Isn't that the same thing he's said about practically every game they've released for the last 15 years? He's got ambition, yes - but he's all talk and no trousers.

    I'm sorry, but he hasn't made a really innovate (or even partially good) game since Dungeon Keeper, when he was still with Bullfrog. Lionhead has just been one mess after another.

  • geeza2020 #109 8 months ago

    someone get pete back into his box, he's escaped and spouting rubbish to the press again...

  • Hindle #110 8 months ago

    The scores Fable 3 got will be high compared to Fable the Journey.

  • OliverH #111 8 months ago

    @Murton
    I take it you've never worked on a product with real passion? Because if you did, you'd know that
    "Lesson one: it's under-promise and over-deliver, not the other way round"
    is cheap armchair talk that's extremely tough to keep for someone who believes he's doing something visionary or breakthrough. You have a dream and you'd love to share it with others.

    As for
    "Lesson two: when you set a benchmark with game 1, maintain that throughout the series, don't dumb down the sequels as EA/Bioware have learned recently with ME and DA"

    Sorry, but to claim EA learned that is to claim that the Pope abolished celibacy and allowed women priests. EA didn't learn it with Ultima and they're unlikely to learn it with ME and DA. And you know why? Because EA knows there's plenty of folks like the crowd here who love to sling mud because it doesn't involve any thinking and analyzing. And folks who avoid thinking and analzying are dairy cattle for companies such as EA - easily duped into buying a game, and easily duped again, because while they'll sling with mud, come the next game, they'll buy again, because remembering how the last product flunked is just too much of an intellectual exercise. Plus, as long as people fling mud at folks like Molyneux, so much the better for companies such as EA or MGS -because THEY don't need to take the flak.

    Supposedly, the head of EA admitted a few years ago that they screwed up the acquisition of Origin, Westwood etc.and claims they do things better now. Well, what they perhaps do better is not scaring their creative staff away within a few months - they give them a few years now. Doesn't change the fact that the process behind it is still the same: They're more interested in quick money than long-term quality. And luckily for them, they've got plenty of folks for whom names such as Richard Garriott, Warren Spector, Sid Meier, Will Wright or, precisely, Peter Molineux are not living legends because they don't have the slightest idea what they did for gaming. For me, the fact that Molineux can NOT make the game he dreamed of is actually a tragedy that would, in itself, be worth being told in a game, because he'd darn well deserve not to be hampered by such constraints as "finish that darn game now, and if parts of it aren't done, then cut them". If anyone should have the right to declare their games will be published "When they are done", it's them. But because people love to sling mud at the most visible face, they get the hate-speech while MGS and EA laugh all the way to the bank.