Ancel attacks gratuitous FPS violence

By Fred Dutton Published 13 June, 2011

Devs should take inspiration from movies.

As it has done for the past few years, the FPS genre dominated E3 this month. However, as exemplified by the likes of Brothers In Arms: Furious 4, Far Cry 3, Rage and Modern Warfare 3, the class of 2011 seemed to boast a particularly brutal streak.

Ubisoft's creative lynchpin Michel Ancel – the man behind the Rayman and Beyond Good & Evil series – wasn't impressed. Speaking to Eurogamer in Los Angeles last week, he argued that it's time for the industry to grow up and display a little more artistry in its approach to storytelling.

"I don't like it," he complained, before suggesting developers should look to Hollywood for inspiration.

"Yeah, I think violence is not the problem, the problem is when it's not done... if you look for example at Saving Private Ryan, the Spielberg movie. It's violent but there is really dramatic and artistic storytelling behind it.

"The problem I have with violence is when there's nothing behind it – when it's just violence."

"The thing I hate the most is when you see people doing bad things and the player can say, 'okay I have the right to kill them in horrible ways because they are horrible'. If you kill Nazis with the same methods as the Nazis themselves then you are Nazis too, no?

"It's strange," he continued. "I really don't understand the message behind those games. With Beyond Good & Evil we wanted to push it in new directions. You know, Jade is a journalist – her weapon is a camera.

"I like the way the movie industry is able to have storytelling, to talk about violence, sex and everything like that with real talent. Today, I think we have a lot of things to learn from that."

"It is very important to ask questions. We want to make games where there are those situations – how can we make the player have these kind of [violent] interactions but with some meaning?"

Next up from Ancel is the decidedly headshot-free platformer Rayman: Origins, due on PlayStation 3, Wii and Xbox 360 later this year.

Picture of Fred.

About Fred Dutton

Fred Dutton is Eurogamer's US news editor, based in Washington DC.

Read more articles from Fred by visiting the Fred Dutton archive page.

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Comments (48) Latest comment 11 months ago

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  • darkmorgado #1 12 months ago

    It feels somewhat ironic that someone would complain about gratuitous violence in games and then say they should take a cue from hollywood, which is what inspired most violent games in the first place.

  • beetleman99 #2 12 months ago

    Finally, someone speaking out about this. I too personally have no problem with violence in games, but many games go far too overboard with it. Look at Red Steel 2 (from Ubisoft, coincidentally), which features no blood and characters seemingly made out of putty, yet the effect was perfectly fitting for the game.

    Grow up everyone, see that a game doesn't need to be violent to be good.

  • dirtysteve #3 12 months ago

    'If you kill Nazis with the same methods as the Nazis themselves then you are Nazis too, no? '

    No. Do we need to take this argument down the Godwin's route?
    I understand the argument against violence.
    I can enjoy gratuitous violence(BulletStorm) on one level as a release, but I found Black Ops demonizing of it's enemies to smack more than a little of propaganda.

  • insincere_dave #4 12 months ago

    "You know, Jade is a journalist – her weapon is a camera."

    She was quite happy to put guards in mortal danger by attacking the gas canister things on their backs as I recall. That and the great massive stick she battered everything that moved with.

    Still, fair point Michael.

  • King_Edward #5 12 months ago

    - 10 respect points for you Ancel. Games shouldn't be taking cues from Hollywood, they should be finding there own story telling methods.

    "The thing I hate the most is when you see people doing bad things and the player can say, 'okay I have the right to kill them in horrible ways because they are horrible'. If you kill Nazis with the same methods as the Nazis themselves then you are Nazis too, no?"

    Unless I'm missing some sort of clever irony in this it's the stupidest thing I've ever seen written down in my life.

    "It's strange," he continued. "I really don't understand the message behind those games. With Beyond Good & Evil we wanted to push it in new directions. You know, Jade is a journalist ? her weapon is a camera."

    Funny. I thought the big stick she was hitting monsters with was her weapon, no?


  • knightmt #6 12 months ago

    We need more robots#)

  • bad09 #7 12 months ago

    Violence for the sake of violence isn't a bad thing nor is it seen only in games. Film, books, music lryics. There is a naughty fun place for it even the over the top stuff, I see nothing positive in pointing a finger only at the games industry.

    This guys comes across quite snobbish about because he doesn't understand mankind likes a bit of meaningless blood and gore fun in some of their entertainment.

  • The_Bloody_Kettle #8 12 months ago

    When I was younger I got really excited about violence in games, I thought it made them edgy and made me feel cooler.
    However now I'm older I just don't see the point.

    I much prefer more colourful peaceful games these days..

    Like Viva Pinata.

    And as the post above states games with shooting etc. don't need to be gratuitously violent. Red Steel did just fine.

  • ForozM #9 12 months ago

    Looking forward to Rayman Origins. Also looking forward to a few violent shooters. But hell, he got a point.

  • JohnMagnum #10 12 months ago

    And let's not forget that Ubisoft is the publisher behind, among other things, the Tom Clancy and Assassin's Creed games. Certainly those are games that encourage a sophisticated moral response to the issue of killing, and when it is and is not appropriate. Indeed, Tom Clancy and games based on his IPs are notorious for including comprehensively detailed and realistic portrayals of the enemies of America, to the point that after dying five hundred thousand times on coop_quarry I was wondering why we were fighting at all.

  • Gearskin #11 12 months ago

    Its not so much the violence he seems to have an issue with. More the weak context the violence is framed within.

  • -cerberus- #12 12 months ago

    When there's nothing behind it, no harm is done as it's for entertainment purposes only. I think most players realize that...

    Personally, I'm not a big FPS fan either but the combination of brilliant storytelling with FPS elements has been proven to work: Bioshock, Metro 2033, ... Surely, I'm forgetting some but like I said: FPS is not my thing.

  • bad09 #13 12 months ago

    @Gearskin

    Well he should look at his own backyard first before spouting off on violence. There was very little context in me slicing a poor guy to bits with a machete while he was still sitting in his jeep in Far Cry 2 ;)
    Edited by bad09 at 13/06/11 @ 23:00

  • convercide #14 12 months ago

    Hmm. Inspiration from Hollywood, eh?

    Ok then I choose the Saw films, Hostel pts I and II, most Scorcese films, Kill Bill vol 1 and 2 and the Blade Trilogy.

  • shave_my_donkey #15 12 months ago

    i dont really agree with the man. but i did feel a bit disturbed when i saw the new brothers in arms video

  • Gearskin #16 12 months ago

    @Bad

    Perhaps. But that wasn't his game, was it? Its one of those "my opinion and not that of my employer" kind of situations.

    I can see where he's coming from... I personally feel that story gets in the way. Bulletstorm had it right.

  • arcam #17 12 months ago

    No one can deny that the reason there are so many gratuitously violent games is because they are so popular. I love them too.

    But why are they so popular? Anyone want to take a stab at that?

  • king26 #18 12 months ago

    Tips from Hollywood? No thanks Hollywood has been in a sorry state for a long time now. I think that there are plenty of games without that much violence to keep everyone happy. The best story telling way in which violence is used is Heavy Rain imo. But I even at my age there is something very satisfying about stabbing Helghast soldiers in the eye with a big knife!!

  • Deckard1 #19 12 months ago

    I prefer Paul Elbow to be honest.

  • ReapingAngel #20 12 months ago

    I hope that doesn't mean the Saw movies. No wait, games have been there as the only emotion we got was frustration over mindless mini games.

    But having said that, Heavy Rain is a primary example of a game that has an awesome storyline and sequences like a man cutting his finger off to save his child. Now that was a prime example of a designer taking cue from Hollywood or the famous torture sequence from Metal Gear Solid 3. The sequences are hard hitting and have been taken straight out of hollywood.

    Its a tough call. Only few games can convey such emotion and those that do fear of not being appreciated by wider audience. Beyond Good and Evil is a perfect example of that. So Ancel, you made your point and I just made mine.

  • Nithron #21 12 months ago

    I don't think it's the violence that actually appeals to people in itself; it's the skill required, and the drama and tension involved in violent scenarios. In Halo, you're fighting for yours, and everyone else's, life against a relentless alien army, which adds the drama and tension. Surviving, and besting your enemies in combat, requires skill - which adds the "game" aspect.

    Combat itself is a situation requiring a complex set of skills in order to "succeed" in, which is good fodder for video games. It does involve violence, but that is not the point. Who would bother playing a game where you just repeatedly hurt people with no danger to yourself, or skill required? Only people that should be on some sort of register.

  • SpeedyThing #22 12 months ago

    What games still need to learn is how to tell a story without taking you out of the game. Why did the Star Wars prequels suck? Because every dialogue exchange is between people sitting on seats... they are either sitting and talking, walking and talking, or in a detached action sequence.

    Games are the same (bar a few exceptions). When the action bits further the story, and more than just by killing a boss, then we'll not only have a more mature artform - we'll have a better one.

  • DrStrangelove #23 12 months ago

    If you kill Nazis with the same methods as the Nazis themselves then you are Nazis too, no?

    What was the name of the game again that lets you put German civilians in gas chambers?

  • ShiroBen #24 12 months ago

    Surprised at all the negativity here. What Ancel is saying is that games need to grow up and start telling interesting stories, and if they use violence it should be with reason. I mean, what's the most interesting first-person game released recently? To my mind, without question, it's Portal 2. Would that game have been improved with violence? No. To put violence into Portal 2 would have been gratuitous. Look also at Mirror's Edge, a game which (rather wonderfully) has a 'discard gun' button. You can get through the whole game without shooting anyone. I'd like to see more of that. More thinking, less shooting.

  • todoso #25 12 months ago

    I agree with Ancel, gratuitous violence is gratuitous. What the industry needs is an interesting and novel way to tell a story. Humans have invented books, plays and movies as a means to tell a story so the industry faces an uphill task of inventing a new form of storytelling that is just as engaging as books and movies.

    Videogames offer something much more than books and movies--namely, control over the actions and destinies of the characters. There must be a new, as yet unthought, method of incorporating story and narrative into our videogaming. Sure, there are several excellent standouts that come close to defining a new method...Heavy Rain comes to mind. But what will be the story/narrative 'killer app' for the future of gaming? If you can answer that you will be a rich, rich man.

  • arcam #26 12 months ago

    @Nithron

    Thanks!

    I think you're right, it's the drama and tension that only mortal combat can bring. I suppose I could just as easily have asked why so many games have your life in constant peril. It's thrilling, particularly when we are made to feel it's only our wits that are keeping us alive. But we still get a thrill when seeing someone's head pop or from a short section of aerial mass mini-gun murder that offers no real danger. That goes a bit deeper...

  • NewbieZilla #27 12 months ago

    " You know, Jade is a journalist – her weapon is a camera."

    And what is that stick thing? A love bat?

  • danjfor #28 12 months ago

    You know those bits in Black Ops where stealthy kills are set up for you, and there's a lurid unique killing animation for each one? Made me quite uncomfortable. Not because it was a depiction of violence, but because all challenge and context seemed to be stripped away for the moment. The guys literally stand still, some of 'em are sleeping, etc, it's basically impossible to screw up. So in those bits the game stopped being a combat game, and became a device where you press a button to leer at a man's neck getting torn open. I'd almost think it was satire if I thought they were capable of it.

  • BuckEntropy #29 12 months ago

    I have nothing but regard for Michel Ancel and his creations, and I'm completely on-board the bandwagon for trying to expand the proportion of (non simulation) games that AREN'T based on killing or destroying something beyond the less than ten percent or so we have now. But I can't agree with the way it's presented here. I mean just because there's no blood doesn't change the fact that you also 'kill' hundreds of enemies in Rayman 2. And in ideological terms I also have mixed feelings about the idea of sanitized violence in any form.

    In practice I don't have any problem with gratuitous violence, when it's honest and well done. I have a much greater problem with gratuitous justifications for said gratuitous violence; tacked on, trite and ultimately hollow moralizing that never leads to any genuine exploration of consequence. There's probably been less than a dozen videogames ever made that might claim any real exception to that, and all the credit in the world should be due them, and all encouragement to those in the future.

    But saying a few prayers isn't going to turn a cutthroat into a saint, and dropping a few throwaway moments of canned introspection into the next FPS bloodbath will on no way change what it is. If the core progression of a game is about destruction and violence, then the tenets of "good gameplay" in that structure is about making that fantasy killing FUN.

  • Videogamer. #30 12 months ago

    Man, I love Eurogamer. :)

    Thanks. :)

  • Zander #31 12 months ago

    He isn't against violence (and I am sure he probably dabbles in a bit of frag festing), just commenting on what we have probably all felt at times. Violence and gore is used (in films too) as a cheap entertainment thrills. I think a lot of dev teams could benefit from investing more time in putting meaning (and not just saying "they are the bad guys, go kill em";) into their games. Of course not all games need to be like this, but a little bit more effort wouldn't hurt would it?

    Killzone 3 - The Helgast are basically space Nazi's but weather Guerilla games meant it or not... I was rooting for them (does that make me a Nazi!?!?!) because they had a bit more story than the (typically wafer thin American) good guys (and WAY better voice acting!).

    Although having said all that GTA4 divided people because it went off and tried to be more serious. Looking at its origins a huge part of its success was how violent and "fun" it was.

  • inutaihanyou #32 12 months ago

    I am not wafer thin :(

    But i agree with Ancel. Complexity in games is not a bad thing.

    However, like the hollywood he aspires to, there is the gratuitous action movie flick of the 80s, that revels in its paper thin plot in order to get to the violence and mayhem

  • FireMonkey #33 12 months ago

    Yeah, we should have more games taking things like the Human Caterpillar as an influence. (sarcasm)
    There are plenty of nasty or violent for violents sake films out there.

    If you want tp play a game that is not mindless then don't play one in which the lead character has to kill thousands of characters to progress, just as if you don't want to see mindless violence in films don't watch any gore-fest films (BrainDead, SAW, etc.)
    Edited by FireMonkey at 14/06/11 @ 07:06

  • FireMonkey #34 12 months ago

    Oh, and Ancel, go do it then! When you finish Ray-Man and BG&E2 go and make an action based FPS that has a really dramatic , artistic story to it that puts meaning behind the 1000's of kills that you make.

    I'd love to see if you can do it.

  • Lirsumis #35 12 months ago

    While I agree with him on the subject of gratuitous violence, he chose his examples very poorly. Brothers in Arms: Furious Four is as naked an homage to Tarantino's Inglourious Basterds as is possible without being a licensed property. If that's not a game taking its cues from Hollywood, what the hell is?

    I'd suggest that gaming is going through its "80's" period as far as violence goes. Even games that purport to be realistic treat gunshot wounds in a way that has absolutely no analogue in real life, and wouldn't stand up to modern television standards. For gaming to be taken seriously, games are going to have to start incorporating realistic portrayals of violence that have weight and consequence attached. I look forward to the day when pulling the trigger in a game presents me with a moral dilemma, and I find myself making enormous efforts to avoid killing someone.

  • FireMonkey #36 12 months ago

    @General_Ironfist - "i've seen far worse things on the internet, eg (Beheadings, Kittens being crushed to death by high heels, A man being killed by hammer & a screwdriver). Some pretty fucked up things right there."

    Are you disturbed? Why look for stuff like that?

    I love violence in films and games but hate it in real-life. Seeing people getting hurt makes me really angry with humanity. To me games are an outlet. I don't need a story as I have my own story, I just want the action to work my anger out on. If you give me a story about all these atrocities that are being done to make my game killing make any sense then that is likely going to make me more angry with the world rather than help me chill (now it sounds like I'm the disturbed one).

  • KDR_11k #37 12 months ago

    Screw Hollywood, I want more EDF and less Call of Duty.

  • DavidBoring #38 12 months ago

    "If you kill Nazis with the same methods as the Nazis themselves then you are Nazis too, no? "

    NO!

  • homerramone #39 12 months ago

    "I really don't understand the message behind those games"

    Thats because there isnt one maybe ? They are just a game....

  • Utopolitan #40 12 months ago

    A lot of big people in the industry talking about improving "storytelling" never seem to be able to define this "storytelling" element.

    What developers more than anything need to come up with is just an inspired and cohesive context where every separate game element organically intertwine.

    The reason H-L2's "story" works so well is simply due to the fact the entire game is framed within a very clear, distinguished and well-defined context.

  • FireMonkey #41 12 months ago

    @General_Ironfist - "I don't look for that kind of stuff. The vids I mentioned spread around the internet, so if you spend enough time on the internet eventually they'll find their way to you"

    I have been using the internet quite heavily for over 15 years now (developing web sites, online games, etc) and managed to not see a single video like that. I know there are some dodgy sites out there that show this sort of stuff and dodgy porn, but I avoid them. If you don't want to see it it is very unlikely you will see it. For instance a decapitation video. Is it not obvious what might be going to happen? Did you not stop the video?

    Each to their own though.

    This is really off topic now so I'm gonna drop it.
    Edited by FireMonkey at 14/06/11 @ 09:57

  • nuanimal #42 12 months ago

    "The thing I hate the most is when you see people doing bad things and the player can say, 'okay I have the right to kill them in horrible ways because they are horrible'. If you kill Nazis with the same methods as the Nazis themselves then you are Nazis too, no?"

    No - being a Nazi is more to do with ideaology. The problem is just violence is so friggin' cool.

  • geeza2020 #43 12 months ago

    I agree with Ancel. There are still far too few games out there that make you care or even think about the violence/action thats happening on screen beyond a "high score" perspective such as Bulletstorm. Sure there are examples of good storytelling and violence within context in games, such as the above mentioned Heavy Rain. However, for every Heavy Rain thats released, the games industry must see at least 10-20 fps's with wafer thin stories with 2d characters and just constant trigger pulling throughout the entire game. And within all of them, you will not ever find yourself asking why you're killing these people in their droves, you just do it because its a bit of "fun".

    Now, I'm not saying theres anything wrong with this, as I'm aware that the majority of people playing games are capable of realising they are just games and not real life. However, I'm sure many will agree with me, I'm freaking bored of shooting stuff in another corridor shooter where you have your standard weapons (pistol/submachin gun/shotgun/sniper rifle/assault rifle) and then usually your gimmick weapon (HL2 gravity gun, the plasmids in Bioshock, the powers in Crysis 2) but none of them really bring anything other than ANOTHER way of killing people. Where are the big innovations in story telling and character building? When I see the release schedules most weeks and they are populated by casual shovelware and more fps's it make me yearn for a future of games with true interactive story telling with more going on than just shiny games of whack-a-mole and farmville. Its just a pipe dream really, especially now the money men are have gotten involved in, and are now pretty much in charge of gaming, they realise that cheap thrills and kills, and cheapo casual rubbish is what sells, and keeps the shareholders happy, so I cant see any huge leaps forward in storytelling and or character building happening any time soon and this makes me a sad panda :(


    sorry for the rant

  • shave_my_donkey #44 12 months ago

    @generalIronfist
    Sorry to pick on you again man but nobody normal is going watch a kitten being crushed by high heels. its fucking disgusting

  • Kaminari #45 12 months ago

    It's also time for Ancel to stop talking nonsense and stick his fingers out of his arse. Eight years for a hypothetic sequel doesn't make him look serious. How in the world BGE2 requires more powerful hardware than a PS2?

  • cyber_nicco #46 11 months ago

    This kind of thing really irks me. The last thing I want is the damned morality police telling me or the entertainment providers what I should get in any sort of entertainment media. If I am an adult, I can choose for myself. The end. Period.

    Anyone else arguing otherwise is not thinking clearly.

  • geeza2020 #47 11 months ago

    He wasnt telling you what you should and shouldn't buy, he was saying that the current crop of games are obsessed with crude violence with little or no story backing them up. BIG difference.

    As my teacher always used to tell me, must try harder :)

  • blackbriar101 #48 11 months ago

    It took the movie industry 97 years to
    make the film Commando, it took the games industry 28 years to make Heavy Rain.