Why Double Fine doesn't do PC

And here I thought I had played Psychonaughts on the PC back in the day. Oh well.

Keivz - but did you actually BUY it?

Nobody even said Psychonauts wasn't on PC to begin with.

The problem I have with PC gaming is that there are always risks of not being able to run the title. That can deter some people. There are also so many amazing games being released at one time that they are always competing for attention with so many titles, If they don't shout loud enough they do not get noticed.

And importantly, Steam always ridiculously under price games in their many sales, meaning that the patient ones among us will wait for the game to be put into the next big steam sale - myself included.

I always felt there was a huge risk in investing a game for the pc, mainly because of those metacritic scores attached to the games on Steam. You don't want to risk your game being sold with a big rating of 34/100 right next to to 'Add to cart' button.

All this being said, Psychonauts worked best on the PC, so it would be nice to see them develop for the PC.

Well, Double Fine's publisher. We PC gamers also have consoles and memory.

Oh, and the PC is financially rewarding enough if you game is good, fuck you very much.

"Ever wondered why there were no PC versions of Brütal Legend or Costume Quest?"

No actually....

Who is the publisher of these games anyway, I thought most were quite happy with revenue coming in from PC? Hey if publishers don't wanna serve me as a customer on my platform of choice it's cool now, I'll ask or moan for it but I sure as hell 'ain't throwing money at them on consoles. Plenty of people to give my money on PC for now....speaking of which STEAM SALE HAS STARTED PEEPS!

yeah because this cunt is doing so well on the 360 and PS3

fuck him. i hope his company continues to go down in flames

OK had a look as it was bugging me, EA did Brutal Legend and THQ did Costume quest. Two strong supporters of the PC platform so what gives? Maybe they felt his games weren't worth putting out on PC?

@bad09: Different Genres tend to perform differently on different platforms. Which also explains the lack of Wii stuff (third parties tend to have a horrendous time getting sales on the Wii).

To be honest, it's not completely surprising that they would take that decision, disappointing as it may be. Well, maybe not for the other stuff, but I was interested in seeing Brutal Legend since I saw it as a bit of a successor to Full Throttle.

>All this being said, Psychonauts worked best on the PC,

No it didnt. My xbox ran it fine. My pc on the other hand - it was unplayable.

Hardly say it worked best on my pc.

""We have much of the technology in place to produce PC versions of all these games, but there is still some more work required to make them shippable and that costs money. So far, our publishers have not elected to fund that work. Not because they hate PC gamers, but because they don't see enough financial reward."

Well, stick the games on Steam, FFS.

>Keivz - but did you actually BUY it?

Dunno why that got marked down.. it was a genuine question.. Maybe i just upset a few pirates?

So basically the publisher doesn't know how to sell the game on PC.

This is so much arse gravy that I'm not entirely sure where to start on it really... It's not like Double Fine are the first to mention this crap this year though. We've heard it at PAX, E3 and various other trade shows. PC Gaming is "Stalled", "in a partially vegetative state", "Not profitable", and daftest of all "slowly dying out". But it's rubbish.

Okay, let's tackle some of the issues raised here. Let's start with the obvious one - profitability. Now, I may not be as tuned in as some are these days (blatant lie) but in two weeks aren't we going to see the most successful and profitable PC game of all time getting released to a userbase of nearly 16 million people? This is a game that costs a bomb to make, produce and keep running and yet it makes more money than I think either company know what to do with, which may account for a certain CEOs deluded behaviour... must be nice to snort ground-up 100 dollar bills...

No, seriously. This year has seen some serious PC Gaming moments. It is, however, becoming two-tiered. You have a handful - just a handful - of publishers and developers doing tthe top-end stuff - plenty of quality, but also a lot of shit too. Then you have the lower-end, which is comprised of F2P MMOs and indie projects - plenty of quality, but more shit because it ends up competing with the waste disposal from the top tier as well. That in itself may be a problem, but if you're a console developer it is so much easier to join the top-tier club.

On the subject of publishers, I'm seeing more and more actually taking the PC seriously. Activision Blizzard have taken the PC very very seriously always, because at least half their target audience is there if not two-thirds. Three quarters maybe? But also look at the likes of Capcom - I remember their shitty PC ports. I've bought a lot of them. These days though, all change. Their games handle most of the time better on a PC than they do on a console! SEGA are taking the PC more and more seriously. So too are Eidos/SE. If the PC isn't financially rewarding, why is it so many developers and publishers have gravitated towards the PC in recent years, to join other monoliths like Bethesda and id? Why is it the PC world has been almost the saviour of companies like Codemasters?

Financially, I also don't buy the argument. Most developers these days develop on Windows PCs (sorry Apple fans) so PC ports aren't really "ports" anymore - they've been developed specifically on that platform. It's not AS expensive to just release it in its raw PC form - it may take a bit of cleaning up but surely no more so than trying to make compatible/simultaneous 360/Wii/PS3 versions of the same fucking game? Oh, and lets also remember one other thing - licencing costs for consoles aren't cheap either, although I am under some information that Microsoft are much more forgiving on that front... but obviously, they still licence, it's a means to filter content and try and catch crap. Or well, that is the theory, doesn't quite work in practice...

So too do digital distribution services like Steam. I'm not deluded here, I know that Valve make a not inconsiderable amount from Steam, and yes their prices are often hovering around RRP whereas physical copies from places like Amazon and Play are usually cheaper, but it is a service that gives gamers a vast wealth of content to buy at their fingertips - it's easier to navigate than their console rivals, and as has been said, their sales are amazing (and usually when I buy from Steam, oh come on! I'm no fool!). There are plenty of other services, and directly selling to consumers as well. That isn't to forget for a lot of PC games the modding community, who keep various role-play and FPS games almost indefinitely... Oblivion can run on most shitty little laptops now, and a sequel has been announced, and it is still alive - primarily thanks to a community base that has modded the nuts off it - nooooo, you shall not see the size of my Oblivion folder! Oh all right... that 500gb hard drive? The one with one folder? That's my Oblivion hard drive... DON'T JUDGE ME!

As for the idea that PC Gaming is "dying", and I say this with a straight face - we've deen dying since 1994. When Doom was doing the rounds, PC gaming was dying. When MMOs started to pop up, PC gaming was dying. When Half Life was released, PC gaming was dying. When WoW was revealed a couple years into its life to have 10 million subscribers, PC gaming was dying. Cataclysm released in two weeks, PC gaming is dying. If this is dying, then I think we must all give credit and our deepest thanks Dr. Edwin Frankenstein because for me, the PC gaming scene hasn't felt this alive in years - if anything, the PC versions are becoming more and more polished, enjoyable and expansive than their console counterparts...

The problem isn't in the PC Gaming market. The problem comes in the console market. PC ports of otherwise "average" console games don't help. The PC is often seen as a dumping ground for various franchises, or only for a select few. I think it is over 20 years of, quite frankly, utter bullshit that has convinced some that PCs are a liability - it's just one of those myths that is kind of hard to shake off, even when all evidence points to the contrary.

As for the "vegetative state" comment from PAX this year, I have to say - eh?! Could we not say the exact same thing about the console market? For me, this is largely down to the large numbers of sequels on offer, and okay, it's not exactly surprising. But it's a bit rich to aim it at the PC gaming crowd and miss out the consoles entirely - with the quality of releases on consoles these days, I'd say console gaming isn't in a vegetative state - the life support machine is sounding an alarm. Pay attention developers! Games half finished, riddled with bugs and where DLC is pushed before issues are fixed used to be the domain of the PC... ahh, how times have changed...

That said, I like my consoles (although I will readily admit I play way more on my PC than any of my consoles!). I still think in a few years we'll have a new console generation however, I'm not sure who'll start it yet Nintendo maybe?. We'll see some pretty crazy tech with pretty crazy pricetags attached, and yes the games will look stunning - we'll see 3D becoming a big thing most likely as Sony push that tech as hard as is humanly possible, like a severely constipated man after taking a few Senokot and we'll see way more on the "alternative controller" scene. Kinect, Move and Wii Remote I fear are just the beginnings, the tip of a vast iceberg. But the price tags have been getting closer and closer to the brink of a mid-range gaming PC. Sure, it'll last several years (Unless you get RRoD... or YLoD... or Locked Up after a console update... *maniacal hysterical laughter*). For the likes of the 3DS and PSP2, I kind of get it. I like handheld consoles - I probably play them more than my actual consoles. But the main consoles... the tech is moving on, and most low-end PCs can handle console games of the now.

This isn't about hating consoles - I love consoles and I think consoles have their place, and I think certain games and genres work better on consoles (I, for example, prefer games like Assassins Creed on a console over a PC). But equally, certain games and genres work better on a PC (No offence but I prefer L4D2 on PC, I never did like those control schemes on a controller...) - a place for everything and everything in its place. There's no need to be competative - it's not like WoW will ever work on a console, and it's not like we'll ever be able to play Tekken on a keyboard. But really, PC gaming is dying? Financially risky? In a vegetative state? Crap. Crap. Crap. How about they stop spouting this shit and give us the real reason...

"We can't be bothered to do it."

Fine with me, there's plenty more fish in this sea, despite what everyone seems to say...

edit; Oh my god, I so didn't intend to do a wall of text rant, I'm so sorry...

>Well, stick the games on Steam, FFS.

Erm.. if you have a deal with a publisher - it's usually for the publisher to publish those games for you on the platforms they choose. If you go and self publish on another platform yourself - thats how lawsuits are made.

@smelly: "Erm.. if you have a deal with a publisher - it's usually for the publisher to publish those games for you on the platforms they choose. If you go and self publish on another platform yourself - thats how lawsuits are made."

Well, in that case, agree the console rights only with the publishers and release the PC versions as an independent publisher. Not hard, surely?

>Huge rant without any understanding of how things work followed by:
>"We can't be bothered to do it."


No.. Almost definitely not the case at all.

Developers (especially small ones) need publishers to fund games. Its the PUBLISHER who decides which platform a game is on, not the developer. And publishers use marketing men to determine whether a game of a certain type is likely to sell on a platform or not. I.e. you wouldnt try to put a "halo beater" as an exclusive wii title, any more than you'd try to release cooking mamma 4 on the 360.

The publishers decide this stuff. The developer is usually under contract of exclusivity with publisher. Such that they couldnt even release the pc version themselves even if they wanted to.

And with piracy being so rife in the pc gaming world - there's no real surprise that a publisher wouldnt want a developer self-publishing a pc game and eating into the money they've funded...


Put yourself in a publishers shoes - you've paid $5 million to get a 360 game made, you want it to be exclusive to get the fanboys rhiled up and happy, exclusives make for great publicity as the fans masturbate over idea of owning a game the guys who own other platforms cant have.. You put it out in the shops.. then the developer decides to release the game you've funded on another platform of his/her choice... Thus mucking up your plan.. Then to make matters worse, they release it on the pc - where it gets pirated to hell in teh first week and no-one bothers to buy the console version as they already have it for free on pc.

@Smelly; Exclusivity deals are kind of a problem on their own. I think the latest one I could point out is Fable 3 - PC Version still in development, whereas the 360 version gets a certain period of time to enjoy it. Or rather, not, as I think the game could have used another six months or so in development....

Piracy, meh, I know I know because it is an age-old argument, but its harder to pirate for consoles and equally, harder to pirate PC games as well. I'm seeing more and more require activation codes and online registrations, with DRM and various other assortments of brick walls to discourage it. I don't think it'll ever get rid of it entirely - but it still seems like the console industry has shaken off that stigma, when it's still as applicable there as it is on the PC...

Particular games, as I said, are aimed at particular machines. Fable 3 I would say I'd prefer on a console over a PC. It's not that I don't have the power in the PC to rev the nuts off it - and it's not so much a fault of the industry as perhaps a fault with me, and some fairly archaic views over the distinctions between a PC game and a Console game.

That said, exclusivity deals aside (which is a legal and not a technical issue and whilst I see why they do it, I'm still not in total agreement with this sort of practice) I'm still not seeing what so many are talking about this year. It has been a pretty bizarre but good year for gaming all round I think - a year where a solid franchises are topping the bills and various indie games are getting more and more critical and commercial applause. I mentioned the comment about gaming in a vegetative state - I don't particularly agree with it, but I think talk is cheap when it can equally apply to consoles as to the PC. I fully agree - the gaming industry today is changing, and my understanding of it is perhaps old and archaic and fuddy-duddy and stuck in 2002 or so. I'm not sure I know where the hell it is headed right now, all I hope for is that it ends up in a good place (although I accept that there are going to be bumps along the way).

But we see the PC market repeatedly kicked in the balls... I may not understand all the technical, legal and financial obligations that go on behind closed doors. Maybe I just don't see what all the bloody fuss is about. Hey, I understand contractual obligations. If it says "X game can only be released on Y console because we have a deal with Z company..." that's fine and dandy. It's simple and I wouldn't be quite as irked about it as the slew of bullshit this year about the PC gaming market. I understand that Double Fine would love more access to the PC market - they're not directly insulting it, but in an indirect way they're claiming their publishers don't, which is equally as weird and confusing. Maybe it's just their particular brand or style of games are better suited to consoles than to the PC? Or their games sell better on consoles? I dunno. I'm sort of rambling again. Sorry.

But for as much as I don't quite "get it", I would accuse many this year who have made some of these frankly silly comments of the same thing. My PC this year has seen more use than my consoles... it's been a good year, just like every other year that PC gaming has been "in trouble" or "dying".

Perhaps I would be more open to a simpler argument... "I don't think our games would be suited to the PC market". I'd be more okay with that than half the stupid arguments this year, mostly because for a lot of games - I'd 100% agree with it. Not everything works on a PC. Not everything works on a console. Simple, effective and bullshit-free, and doesn't make you look like a fool when you're two weeks away from a certain juggernaut which is likely to make most console games this year cover their genitals in shame... yes, it's a quirk we only get every few years, but you can guarantee news stories proclaiming by the new year "Fastest selling game EVER!" and "Has made X amount of millions of dollars!", and that is before you factor in collectors editions, new vanity pets and various other paid-for services that aren't necessary, but still make money.

And yet, come January we'll have someone else proclaim the demise of the PC gaming market or that it's in trouble or difficult... as sure as the sky is blue, the sea is deep and Bobby Kotick will say something ridiculous and have everyone cursing him publically. Such is life, perhaps I should start letting this sort of thing just wash over my head rather than getting inside and annoying me...

I bought Psychonauts 4 times, and 3 of those were the PC version. Barely touched the Xbox version. At least the PC version had customizable controls, even using an Xbox pad. The Xbox version had weird controls.

@Publishers

Steam.

Psychonauts has actually sold better on the PC over the past year or so than it ever did on launch, thanks to being on Steam offers and the like quite a few times, and the years giving the game a bit of a 'cult' status.

Reading comprehension problems much?

Full priced games need a budget of MILLIONS of dollars, people dont have that sort of money lying around, so publishers fund games they like, publishers make large money comitment, publishers decide the platform game appears on.

Rarely anything to do with the developer.

If you have a beef with this - talk to the publishers!

Dont complain at the devs!

Kami, if you want me to read your posts, make them shorter. /declares Smelly the winner

THQ and EA refusing PC versions? Uh. That's... new.

I brought Psychonaughts on PC, along with DotT, Grim Fandango and the Monkey island games. I also brought Brutal Legend on Xbox and found it a total disappointment. To be honest the stuff Tim is doing now really doesn't interest me at all and reminds me a lot of the indie stuff u see on Steam. Tim's a legend, will always appreciate the classics he developed in the past but there is already way too much stuff out there that i haven't got time to play.

Kami, piracy is why devs don't do pc versions. Why bother putting any resource at all into the sku when you'll sell only a few thousand. Is the 16 million seller you're referring to WoW? If so, it's no wonder, it can't be pirated.

People with 360 and PC want a game, their mate got the game for PC on bit torrent or they can pay $50 in the shops for the console version. Which is it to be?

Strong online will help to sell legit copies of PC games, such as CoD etc. but apart from that, you're on a hiding to nothing.

Don't you dare touch Grim Fandango.
You shits don't deserve to get your inept fingers on that legend

"Particular games, as I said, are aimed at particular machines. Fable 3 I would say I'd prefer on a console over a PC. It's not that I don't have the power in the PC to rev the nuts off it - and it's not so much a fault of the industry as perhaps a fault with me, and some fairly archaic views over the distinctions between a PC game and a Console game."

I hear a few people making distinctions between PC and and console so you are not alone, but no offence Kami it is your "archaic views", epsecially as windows official controllers that are the exact same ones used on the 360

(great posts by way!)

@coolbrittania; Hey, I just like being thorough.

@ swisstony; The problem with the piracy argument these days is it IS harder to pirate most PC games. So many of them are tied into DRM, codes and needing an online connection/registration system. It requires all of them to play the games, so it can be a bit cheap to keep claiming the PC market is that rife with piracy - even when it was rife, PC games were still selling quite a lot of units. The problem with piracy isn't that it doesn't exist - far from it, the problem comes with the draconian measures intended to stop a problem that, by and large, was overblown to begin with (and it isn't like consoles have been immune to this argument in the past).

Yup, the publishers do need to get their heads out of their arses. But equally, I think my half-asleep rant was for two things;

1) This year we've had so many comments about the death of PC gaming, perhaps more than usual. To be honest, for a lot of these publishers (and some devs) isn't this a self-defeatist if not self-fulfilling prophecy?

2) Some games just aren't "best" played on a PC (As I said, I prefer Assassins Creed and various other games on consoles). Some games, by token, aren't at their best on consoles (Dragon Age: Origins and Fallout 3, I'm looking at you!). Realistically, the two mediums can "share" games quite nicely - but others are becoming more console-orientated (COD I would say most certainly is!) and others are shifting towards the PC (The Resident Evil 5 "port" was quite substantially better on PC I think). That's not a bad thing - it's just how things happen from time to time...

I think the recent "success" of Psychonauts in particular being offered for pittence on digital sales is good. I doubt this news article wasn't meant to irk, but be a near-public plea from DF of the "Help us!" variety. I wish I could snap my fingers for the guys at Double Fine, but as people have said, this is the publishers - not the developers, although if DF aren't happy with their current contractual obligations surely that is something for their legal team behind closed doors?

Curiouser and curiouser. This rabbit hole goes deep.

edit @ bad09; I admit it. I hold my hands up on this one, I am somewhat stuck in my ways and yes, there is no difference in controllers, it's just... I tend to prefer games which handle on controllers on consoles. I have absolutely no valid reason for this - I have 12 USB ports, it isn't like I don't have them and plenty of slots for them. Guilty as charged. I'm just an old fart in so many ways...

edit 2 for smelly - I like being challenged. I'm well into my 30s and far less confrontational in my old age... the ultraviolence is only IMPLIED now! I'm not 100% and where I am wrong, I like to be challenged. So please by all means keep it coming mate, don't let the red thumbs downs get you down! *disturbingly cheery, chipper smile and thumbs up*

Doesn't make any sense as THQ and EA aren't afraid of PC publishing at all. Double Fine has something to do with this as well I reckon.

need in deph article about piracy in PC gaming world.... maybe gameinsdustry will make one?

All just opportunity cost. It's not just down to 'can this game make a profit', it's more 'can this game make more profit than other investments'. THQ does not have an infinite supply of money and borrowing is pretty hard work these days. THQ have to decide where to spend the money, either their own or money they borrow (more likely). Maybe they are funding other development which will make more money that a port of a cheap console game?

money money money MONEY

@smelly: Yes, Psychonauts worked best on the PC. It worked flawlessly even maxed out on my previous 7 years old PC.
So trash your bronze age computer and buy a better one.