FFXIV limits XP earning after eight hours

By Tom Bramwell Published 26 August, 2010

Dev wants to balance it for casual fans.

Final Fantasy XIV game director Nobuaki Komoto has confirmed that his upcoming MMORPG curbs your experience points completely after 15 hours' play in a single week in the interest of balancing the game for people who can't play it all the time.

"First off, the main concept behind FFXIV is allowing those players with little time on their hands to play effectively, and game balance is based off of that," Komoto told fans in comments translated by FFXIVCore (thanks VG247).

"Furthermore, it is being designed to not give those with more time on their hands to play an unfair advantage."

The idea seems to be that after eight hours' play in a single week you gradually stop earning so much XP and skill points, and if you continue playing for another seven hours you stop earning them entirely.

Later in his post, Komoto wrote that these figures may be tweaked. "We have plans to make the limit more palatable in answer to all the tester feedback we received concerning this," he said.

"Also, since experience points fatigue carries over despite changing weapons, we plan to make it not so harsh."

Judging by Komoto's comments, the game automatically resets your earning potential at the end of the week.

"Surplus experience is currently not being used," he added. "However, we have received many comments suggesting some sort of reward be put into effect regarding it, and we think that's a pretty interesting idea. We don't want to get ahead of ourselves, though, and we're currently investigating the possibilities."

Check out our most recent preview of Final Fantasy XIV for more. Although given that we subtitled it, "A confusing first meeting with Square Enix's new MMO," perhaps not.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (86) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • DoctorFouad #1 1 year ago

    so ?

  • roquey Verified Lead Quality Assurance Tester and Compliance Specialist, Universally Speaking #2 1 year ago

    This is utter utter BS if i wanna play 30 hours a week i expect to get exp for those 30 hours what am i supposed to do, get the hours in then just farm mats or something? sort yourself out square enix. More time isnt an unfair advantage, if you want to play more ofcourse youl have better gear. its life!

  • linea #3 1 year ago

    As someone who doesn't intend to play this game I am outraged that those who *do* intend to play will still have an unfair advantage over me in the game, and as such I am boycotting it!

  • Raz76 #4 1 year ago

    I love how in MMOs a casual player is someone who plays it less than eight hours in a row.

  • Nuronv #5 1 year ago

    Its not in a row, its 8 hours per week

  • drumbaby #6 1 year ago

    This generation seems to be about depriving core gamers and favouring non/ casual gamers. Which is weird for something known as GAMING.

  • DavidBoring #7 1 year ago

    so you don't get any XP if you kill that 18-hours-to-beat-beast

  • King_of_Hyrule #8 1 year ago

    Isn't that kind of the same system as in WOW? When you stay in an inn or log off for a while, when you come back you "feel rested" and you earn double xp for a while.
    Since I rarely play more than an hour or 2 per day that's a good system for me, but if it didn't exist I wouldn't feel that it was needed, I mean sure I might level more slowly than others, but there will always be other people my level to team up with.

  • argus_raphite #9 1 year ago

    @King_of_Hyrule

    Not exactly, you do get rested experience for staying in an in while logged off. But WoW doesnt cap your experience i.e., you can play for 48 hours straight if you so wish and still gain experience throughout. Where as what SE are suggesting, is that you will stop gaining experience after a certain amount of experience gained.

  • FireMonkey #10 1 year ago

    In this type of game though I imagine there are more people who play for shorter sessions (casual gamer) than those that play for longer sessions (core gamer). The devs need to make the games enjoyable for the larger market and unfortunately if core gamers are ruining the fun for the casual then the casual market will start to fall and the devs start to lose out.

    I'm not saying I agree on the method, but I can't think of a better one. Anyway, rather than complain that your 15 hour a week play time is not racking up any more XP and go out and enjoy real life for a few more hours a day. It'll benefit your social life and your health no end.

  • butler` #11 1 year ago

    There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start.

  • reelbigkris #12 1 year ago

    If you play 56 hours a week on one single game you have much bigger problems than worrying about xp!

    Then again, it is removing content which you are paying to access and is a perfect way to extend the games lifespan under the guise of helping casual players. Can you really limit someones gaming time? We need a think tank for this!

    Edit: Wait? 15 hours a week?.... hmmm, if it's 15 hours a week and then your xp gets capped, Then this is incredibly wrong. a little over 2 hours a day! I believe I found some statistics that said the average teen game games between 1 and a half hours to 2 and a half hours a day... Of course core gamers will play much mroe than 15 a week... we need more info really.
    Edited by 1 at 26/08/10 @ 10:11

  • SAMagic #13 1 year ago

    I suppose you could say this is a limit break.

    *Badoom tisch* I'm here all week folks!

  • Alivada #14 1 year ago

    The problem is some casual players may only get a couple of days a week to play.
    So they usually grind it out all day.

    This may hinder those it's ment to help.

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #15 1 year ago

    Sorry, yeah, it's not eight hours' continuous play by the look of his comments, it's eight hours in a week. My bad. Fixed.

  • SClaw #16 1 year ago

    Mugwum.

    You might want to check out Zam's translation of this. It gives a much more sane picture of things. Or the summary of that translation posted on FF14News if you are feeling lazy. It's actually not much of a limit all things considered - simply promotes changing class.

  • ukgamer #17 1 year ago

    meh who cares nobody is going to play this after D3 comes out

  • spookyzombie #18 1 year ago

    They already ruined FFXIII by trying to cater for non diehard's. Stop it SE.

  • kinky_mong #19 1 year ago

    Bold move to punish the core MMO market of unemployed shut-ins living in their parent's basement. Prehaps they might learn to use that time they can't earn XP to do more productive things like cleaning up the crisp packets, crusty tissues and poop-socks littered around their computer.

  • Hypercube #20 1 year ago

    OK, there's a very important point that is missed in this - there are 2 different XP gains, physical and class skill.

    When you have stopped getting class skill gains, you can change that class and you get 100% class skill gains in that new class. The physical level XP gains remain stopped.

    Also, some people have pointed out that the translation is ambiguous - it may be that the cap is related to XP gained and not to 8 hours.

    Looking at the level curves for FFXIV, it would seem that the XP needed to level class's skills is a lot more than that required to increase physical levels. So you can continue to level up multiple classes, and the skills gained from those will make a lot more of a difference to play than physical level anyway.

    This has been badly managed from a PR point of view, in that they still haven't managed to actually explain it clearly. But from my point of view, not being able to increase physical level is NOT a reason to stop playing. If I can switch class to something else, level that and get new skills, that's not a waste of time.

    TL;DR - no one is certain what this does and how it will be at launch.
    Edited by 1 at 26/08/10 @ 10:33

  • XdarXideX #21 1 year ago

    They should do this to more MMOs to lower addiction. Though you still get those losers who pay for multiple accounts I suppose...

  • Shakey_Jake33 #22 1 year ago

    I must be missing something here - it's not unknown for my brother to play FFXI for 8 hours a day (or at least, a good couple of hours).

  • Seoh #23 1 year ago

    Has anyone here actually tried the game? It's the most unfriendly game to casuals ever, i mean its REALLY confusing!
    Edited by 1 at 26/08/10 @ 10:35

  • login_name #24 1 year ago

    Isn't that kind of the same system as in WOW?

    Not really, pretty much the opposite in fact. WoW rewards "casual" gamers with bonus XP, FFXIV penalises "hardcore" gamers by deducting XP over 7 hours. Basically, if you play for more than 15 hrs a week you earn 0 XP and will no longer be able to level up. You can rank up a different job by switching weapons, since they are on seperate timers, but your character level will remain static. Job rank and character level are different.

    It probably will be tweaked to be a little bit more fair during open beta. Currently it really hurts those that don't want to do multiple jobs. It'll also really hinder newer players later in FFXIVs life. It will take them forever to catch up if this is to remain as is. Although, that being said, it'll at least keep the population in lower level areas higher than most MMOs.

    FFXIV is not like WoW and you have to approach it with a slightly different frame of mind. It's not all about getting to end game, it's about enjoying the journey. At least that's the feeling I get from it. It can be a frustrating exercise trying to force your way through this game to max level. It's obvious the developers want you to slow down and smell the virtual roses.

  • andywilkie35 #25 1 year ago

    This has increased the chance of me buying it, good work Square!

  • TheElfishGene #26 1 year ago

    I completely fail at seeing how this effects the game/gameplay or players, i believe final fantasy has absolutely no pvp so any body earning more exp over anybody else in that regard as an advantage is pointless, as for an advantage ingame....how? what advantage does a higher level character with better gear have over a lower level character? the mobs and npc's respawn on a continual basis and your leveling in seperate zones.
    I really don't like the sound of this as a huge MMO player with absolutely no life outside my vitrual worlds (i don't like to go outside) i think SE should take a very long look at this application as it will drive a lot of people away, especially the HC japanese otaku who live for anything FF.
    The only reason i can think of why they will implement this course of action is because they have stupidly stupidly overpowered mobs that only large groups will be able to handle (see DavidBoring) and they don't want people compliaining about RMT's gearing up and stealing all the loot.
    No sir i don't like it, i don't like it one bit.

    /crawls back into cave

    I went back and re-read the article in case i was missing something and indeed i was.

    "curbs your experience points completely after 15 hours' play in a single week in the interest of balancing the game for people who can't play it all the time."

    15 hours play a week...a week! i put in over 15 hours a day.


    Edited by 3 at 26/08/10 @ 11:24

  • roquey Verified Lead Quality Assurance Tester and Compliance Specialist, Universally Speaking #27 1 year ago

    @Shakey_Jake33 this is limit per week not per day.

  • Nephirion #28 1 year ago

    Age of Conan has the best approach currently, you are awarded offline levels while you subscription is open this solves the leveling gap problem adequately while not limiting those who want to go for 1 to 80 as fast as possible.

  • Shakey_Jake33 #29 1 year ago

    @roquey - I am aware of that, my point was that playing for ~8 hours for day isn't uncommon, so having such a limit per week seems a tad extreme. Unless I've missed something.

  • Stompy #30 1 year ago

    "This is utter utter BS if i wanna play 30 hours a week i expect to get exp for those 30 hours what am i supposed to do, get the hours in then just farm mats or something? sort yourself out square enix. More time isnt an unfair advantage, if you want to play more ofcourse youl have better gear. its life!"

    "It's life"? The whole point is that this is a game, and this means they can control the game world and the EXP you earn.

  • Hypercube #31 1 year ago

    @login_name - is class level capped by physical level? So if (for example) I'm level 10, with my pugilist class also being level 10, and I've stopped getting XP and switch to gladiator, would my glad level be capped at my physical level?

    To be honest, I think most people posting in the FFXIV forums about how they've cancelled their pre-order haven't really thought about this. They're fixated on physical level and XP - I'd still play to level other classes, to increase the available skills for my main class.

    Then again, I can't think of any MMO beta I've been in which didn't have hundreds of posts from others saying they'll cancel their pre-order because game mechanic X is a complete failure etc.

  • GamesProgrammer Verified Games Team Programmer, Eutechnyx Ltd. #32 1 year ago

    I actually like this idea, as someone that was addicted to FF11 playing every spare moment i had untill i managed to break away after 2 years and said i would never play an MMO again. But an MMO that encourages you to stop playing after 8 hours a week and pretty much says NO after 15 hours is great, i wont be compelled to say just 5 more mins into the small hours of the night and will probably end up enjoying it more.

  • Stompy #33 1 year ago

    "More time isnt an unfair advantage, if you want to play more ofcourse youl have better gear."

    People who have jobs might sometimes resent those who live off their parents / inheritance being able to be masters of a virtual world due to their lack of success in the real world.

    In fact, punishing those who have too much time to play these games might be the stimulus they need to pick themselves up and diversify their interests and hobbies. And some of them would thank SE for it, too.

    (Edit: see gamesprogrammer above)
    Edited by 1 at 26/08/10 @ 11:15

  • Hypercube #34 1 year ago

    This is utter utter BS if i wanna play 30 hours a week i expect to get exp for those 30 hours what am i supposed to do

    See, comments like this show that it hasn't been explained well.

    First of all, you can get full XP for 8 hours (or up to an XP limit if some translations are to be believed) on each of the different classes - so even if you just play 4 classes a week, that's 32 hours of full class XP you'll be getting, as well as the new abilities for increasing those class levels.

    Secondly, the "hardcore" players who want to choose one class and level it asap to the cap will find themselves gimped. The FFXIV class/skill system seems to be designed around using abilities from many classes at once. If you're just a gladiator or pugilist, you may find that even though you're high level, you're missing out on a lot of stuff.

    Perhaps this is SE's way of trying to say to players "Look, this isn't like the other MMOs - if you level like you used to in WoW, you'll be missing out on a lot". If it is, they may need to hire new PR people.

  • TheElfishGene #35 1 year ago

    @GamesProgrammer
    Thats your fault not the game, maybe a few exercises in self control

    "To be honest, I think most people posting in the FFXIV forums about how they've cancelled their pre-order haven't really thought about this. They're fixated on physical level and XP - I'd still play to level other classes, to increase the available skills for my main class."

    What is it that they havn't thought about exactly? the fact that they are paying a subscription for a product that doesn't do what it's supposed to do and stops you forcibly? plus why should i have to change class if my allocated exp has run out of time (if that is indeed how it works)
    Talk about nanny state.

  • dudefella #36 1 year ago

    ....

    hahahahahaha

    SE doesn't understand MMO audiences

  • Hypercube #37 1 year ago

    @Milky - that's interesting. To me, it seems like they're probably trying to prevent all the PC players from reachign endgame before the PS3 version is released... And to tell people to slow down and smell the roses a little!

  • TheElfishGene #38 1 year ago

    Straight from the horses mouth!

    Hiromichi Tanaka, via his Twitter account, commented on foreign websites that have recently been talking about the Surplus EXP system (which is being called “fatigue” by many players). It appears that the Final Fantasy XIV Producer is upset that people are creating false statements about the experience penalties that players have been experiencing in phase 3 of testing.

    The basic idea of the system is that if a player levels a certain discipline for too long (around 8 hours), they need to switch to another class to level. If they don’t, the experience points they earn from defeating monsters will decrease. After waiting a period of one week, players will be able to receive the normal amount of experience again. By implementing this system, casual players will be more evenly matched with hardcore gamers who are now forced to spend their extra time leveling multiple disciplines instead of devoting a majority of their play time to one.

    So 8 hours on one class is to long, sorry SE but thats some righteous bullshit right there. And for the love of god this is not WoW how many "casual" players does he think FF XIV is gonna bring in, MMO's are by default not aimed at "casual" players no normal human in their right mind would go anywhere near one.

  • Psi #39 1 year ago

    It's their game, if you don't like it don't buy it.

    If you want to have your own way, start your own company and make your own game that does exactly what you want.

    So that will be playing for an unsociable and unhealthy length of time happy in the knowledge that the little xp bar is traveling as fast as you can make it.

    ...Is content and storyline not what's important? Here's an idea, bring out an MMO where if you hit max level, the end credits roll and you have to start again. Just make sure that there's enough storyline, quests, zones to warrent coming back.

  • justsomeone #40 1 year ago

    can't understand why folks in this thread are getting upset by this. surely, if you're a coregamer, hardcoregamer, noncasualgamer - however you want to define yourself - you can simply play a different game? no? there are a fair few to choose from. if you want to play FFXIV more than 15 hours per week, why not stop at that point and play, i don't know, a different game. you'd think squenix were forcing all gamers to play no more than 15 hours per week of any game from here till the end of time, going by the consternation this news has elicited.

    personally, i'm fine with it. i might even play it if it's discouraging the grinders and encouraging gameplay, roleplay, enjoyment, crafting, hanging out, trading and all the other things you can do in an MMO other than grind xp.

  • Hypercube #41 1 year ago

    What is it that they havn't thought about exactly? the fact that they are paying a subscription for a product that doesn't do what it's supposed to do and stops you forcibly?

    See, this is what I mean. It doesn't "stop you forcibly". At no point does it prevent you from playing the game, gaining new skills or doing quests etc.
    As far as I can see, the only people who think that "paying a subscription" means that the developers should abandon their design and immediately pander to their every whim are the ones who think that anyone who doesn't want to reach level cap as quickly as they can is a "casual".

    So 8 hours on one class is to long, sorry SE but thats some righteous bullshit right there.
    No, no it isn't.
    Edited by 1 at 26/08/10 @ 11:41

  • legendmir #42 1 year ago

    @hypercube

    It will stop you doing quests

    if after 8 hours of play you are lvl5, then you wont be able to do any lvl 6,7,8 + quests that week

  • login_name #43 1 year ago

    is class level capped by physical level?

    To be honest, I don't know. My physical level was always higher than my job rank. You tend to lvl up quicker than you rank up, so I'm not even sure it's possible to overtake your physical lvl with your job rank.

  • Hypercube #44 1 year ago

    It will stop you doing quests

    if after 8 hours of play you are lvl5, then you wont be able to do any lvl 6,7,8 + quests that week

    It won't stop you from changing class and doing other quests up to that level. Or leves. Or exploring. Or partying with friends.

    Think outside the WoW paradigm - FFXIV seems to be designed around a much more flexible path, instead of "get class, level class, reach endgame".

    Edit: I've got a stinking cold, and I don't think I'm thinking very clearly! I'll try and explain myself a bit better...

    Say you're level 5, and you've got up to level 5 in Lancer. You've hit the 0xp limit. You can't advance your physical level or your lancer level.
    You change class to pugilist, in which you are rank one. You can then redo the quests if you want, or do leves, or try other quests that you didn't do in the first 5 levels of lancer.

    My fear is that the early game will not have sufficient content to make levelling many classes not repetetive. However, since the game seems to be designed around levelling multiple classes I'm hoping that they've thought of this.
    Edited by 1 at 26/08/10 @ 11:57

  • TheElfishGene #45 1 year ago

    @Hypercube
    I see what your getting at but to me it does seem that your stopped from leveling a class after a certain amount of time so that you have to jump onto another class before you can go back and re-level your main, the same thing was kinda implemented in XI whereas you need a support class to bolster your main class whm/blm etc.
    On XI tho you could level any class without restriction until cap and go back and level any other class also without restriction and then slot these how you wanted, by taking that freedom of choice away from the player your forcing a set of rules upon them that should not be in a game that's based around freedom of choice (it should'nt be called an MMO imo)
    Ok so it's their game their rules (can we have our ball back please mister) but i see this technique alienating not ingratiating the MMO crowd.
    I guess we shall see in the long run how it pans out but personally i'm not happy with it.

  • Pedrolot #46 1 year ago

    I think it's a pretty good idea!

  • Vanmunt #47 1 year ago

    @Hyper

    +1, the only person seeming to make any sense..

  • Hypercube #48 1 year ago

    @TheElfishGene - don't get me wrong, I can completely understand the initial reaction to this. People pay to play a game how they want it to be.

    But I'm just wondering if people are coming to this with preconceptions. Think about Guild Wars - imagine if someone told you there was a game where you couldn't ever equip all of your abilities at once. You might say "I'm paying for this game, and I'm levelling to get more abilities, so let me play it how I want to". But the design of GW is to make you consider which skills to take, and to make people's use of skillsets more thoughtful.

    I don't know how this will pan out in release - they may increase the time limit/XP cap before surplus kicks in.

    Also, no one knows what will happen to the surplus XP (one translation had it down as "dormant XP", so at release it may actually be used for something else).

    I guess it comes down to the gameplay design that SE want - if the game is meant to be played by levelling many classes at about the same level, this sort of makes sense.

    I do agree though, that if people only want to play a single class, this will slow them down considerably. But - if the game is actually fun, would you still play even if you weren't getting XP? I mean, it won't stop you from getting gear and drops.

  • frunk #49 1 year ago

    Excellent Idea... the main reason i have given up MMORPGs in the past has been due to freinds rushing ahead of me. Life, work, etc gets in the way and this would probably mean I would stay relevant longer.

    For those that "don't have another life" then there are multiple accounts and every other MMO out there...

  • Masaroth #50 1 year ago

    Seems like a good idea to me, might actually tempt me to try it out. 8 Hours a week is a long time, thats about the max gaming time i can fit in a week, i think some people may just have way too much free time on their hands. The system seems to me not too punish the heavy users as they can just switch classes.

    Just seems to me to be a refreshing take on the mmorpg which ussually requires you to sink ridculus amounts of time into grinding.

  • Acrid #51 1 year ago

    So monthly subscriptions will be based on only playing the game for 32 hours per month then, and if you play for 33-64 hours you get that half price right?

    Now WOW costs £8.99 per month based on a 1 month subscription, in a 28 day month thats 672 hours I can play for if I wanted, so by my reckoning a subscription for a 32 hour month should cost 43p and a 64 hour month subscription should cost 64p.

    Thats not to bad actually I'd probably pay that.

  • Bibbo #52 1 year ago

    Nice idea. I was always sick of people racing ahead, still won't be getting it though. I lost a few years to FFXI, pulled out of the MMO world, and I just know if I start FFXIV, i'll be hooked again.

  • ziggy_played_guitar #53 1 year ago

    This is utter utter BS if i wanna play 30 hours a week i expect to get exp for those 30 hours what am i supposed to do, get the hours in then just farm mats or something? sort yourself out square enix. More time isnt an unfair advantage, if you want to play more ofcourse youl have better gear. its life!

    No, it's a game. Life is something else.

  • Rack #54 1 year ago

    It's so the 100 hours of content gets them 4 monthly sub fees rather than 1.

  • mushroomyakuza #55 1 year ago

    You know, I support it. As much as I'm pissed off about it, I also agree because I'm someone who likes my MMORPGS in small doses. I don't have time to throw away at one game for hours and hours and hours...so it works for me.

    But for the people who do, then I understand your fury.

  • a8a #56 1 year ago

    I expect this mechanic will be increased, if not changed or removed. Remember that WoW had a similar mechanic in beta - experience gains halved after a certain amount of play. Following negative feedback from testers, the re-jigged the numbers and turned it into a bonus for people who have not played for a certain period of time. The intent and the results are essentially the same - only the execution had changed, and instead of feeling cheated, players felt that it was a bonus. Maybe FFXIV needs to work out how they can market this mechanic in a positive light.

    Personally, I think that as a design intention, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to reward obsessive play. However, I think that making a game whose play-style encourages obsessive play, then putting an artificial limitation on it, is not the way to go. Surely a better solution would be to craft a game where the player would not feel the need or compulsion to spend all their time grinding to the top.

    Also, it should be noted that this mechanic only exists to stop skilling up. It doesn't lock you out of the game or anything. From my experience with FFXI, I suspect that there will be plenty of other stuff to do ingame at all levels, should you find yourself at a loss.

  • crazyhorse174 #57 1 year ago

    Finding it quite amusing the number of comments from people, on a gaming website, slagging off folk who sit on MMO's for hours at a time. I dont spend a lot of time on MMO's, but I dont see how different it is from sitting in front of the telly from hours on end every night.

    Finding it quite ironic how many so-called gamers look down MMO players, as though they're some kind of sub-species.

  • Mr_Brown #58 1 year ago

    Not sure how to view this one. On the one hand the customer has payed for the game and has paid a monthly subcripstion to play for as long as they want. I take it they are not going to reduce the subcription fee considering people will get considerably less time out of it compared to other RPGs.

    On the other hand this might make it the first MMO you can play with other games instead of eating up all your gaming time, which I think is a very good thing. This descision isn't just for casual gamers as it will allow you more time to play different games. This should only have a negative impact on hardcore FFXIV players really.

  • Hypercube #59 1 year ago

    Basically its a novel way of getting peopel to actually stop playing

    Admittedly, I'm not in the beta, so I can't speak from first hand experience, but it wouldn't stop me playing - I'd swap classes, explore or just help out other people. If the game world is immersive and fun, I don't think I'd feel I was losing out just because I'm not levelling.

    XP is only part of the game. Still, it's all very subjective, and I'm definitely not a hardcore player.

  • craziii #60 1 year ago

    so basically he is punishing gamers who actually want to play a game they pay for. this isn't about casual or hardcore, they just want you to stay login for as short as possible. saving them money while getting the same sub fees.

    the shame.

    oh well, not like I plan to play this game anyway :p sucks for the people who looked forward to it.

  • Hypercube #61 1 year ago

    @crazii - no, he's not punishing anyone. Nothing is stopping people from playing, but it will put an artificial break on their character level to a degree that no one yet knows (since they can easily adjust it for the release).

    Your reaction is pretty common on the forums I've read, but it's mainly the product of a conclusion jumped to without reading all the info. This seems to be the biggest problem - SE only appear to be doing interviews in Japanese, which then get translated and sometimes the translations can themselves be ambiguous.

    Anyway, as I've said, if Eorzea is entertaining enough I'll play in it even if I'm not getting XP. I used to love exploring bits of WoW and spent ages not getting any XP at all.

    An MMO is not an XP bar. It's supposed to be an immersive world shared with other people. There are many activities that don't centre on levelling something, and I plan on doing a lot of those - even before I heard about this surplus doodad.

  • Psi #62 1 year ago

    "An MMO is not an XP bar. It's supposed to be an immersive world shared with other people. There are many activities that don't centre on levelling something, and I plan on doing a lot of those - even before I heard about this surplus doodad. "

    Well said mate :)

    Player organised content and roll play seems to be missing from the newer breed of mmos

  • Shikasama #63 1 year ago

    I'm sick of seeing the words 'hardcore' and 'diehard' in threads involving MMOs. Get something else in your life and you'll feel better for it. If you describe yourself as a 'hardcore' gamer you have amde some very poor life choices.

  • sneetch #64 1 year ago

    @Hypercube
    @crazii - no, he's not punishing anyone. Nothing is stopping people from playing, but it will put an artificial break on their character level to a degree that no one yet knows (since they can easily adjust it for the release).

    Surely you can see how artificially slowing and then halting someone's character levelling can be seen as "punishment"?

    I'm subscribed to WoW and I can't play all that much, some weeks not at all (it's been about two weeks since I last logged on) but very rarely I might have a few nights or even a weekend free. If this game penalises me because my limited free time comes in a clump then that's punishing me.

    I don't understand how thwarting other's progress is supposed to balance the game for casual gamers? Surely in a game that's nearly all PVE it doesn't matter what someone else is doing with their time? Why not go with Blizzards idea of rest XP instead and give casual players a bonus if they're not able to play all that often rather than penalise those who can.

  • Hypercube #65 1 year ago

    @sneetch - no, I don't think this is punishment. I think it's an odd mechanic to use to try and persuade your player base to try variety over linear "level all the way to the end game and then bitch about the end game" but I can't see how it punishes people.

    Unless those people simply want to collect XP and that's that. In which case, I'm sure there are other games more suited to this (edit: by this, I don't mean "if you don't like it, fuck off" - I mean that a game isn't everything to all people, and other games may be more suited to someone's playing style).

    It's not stopping people from playing or indeed levelling their classes (and these classes are the ones that confer the abilities that will define your character). OK, you might not be able to level the physical class as quickly as you could do with the surplus mechanic, but the people complaining about being "punished" are the people to whom the actual world of an MMO is extraneous - they want to get their characters higher than everyone else and/or get to the end game first.

    That's a valid way to play - I know people for whom that is their main reason for playing an MMO, but to them the game is simply a method of delivering XP to them. They'd be happy if there was just a series of XP encounters without all that story and society and non-levelling stuff. But that might be a different game to FFXIV.

    Anyhoo, while I sometimes play for brief periods, and sometimes play for large blocks of time, I want to see all of the game and not just the quickest route to the level cap.

    What I've noticed about this whole thing is the lack of articles/interviews etc aimed directly at the Western media. If someone could just come out and explain all this, the mechanics and its implications in English so there's no translation delay or ambiguity in choice of word equivalent, I think some of the mis-conceptions would be swept away. To be honest, I wish they'd stop saying this is related to "casual/hardcore" (I FUCKING HATE THOSE TERMS) and actually tell us why they chose this game mechanic.

    If you've reached this far, thanks for reading!
    Edited by 1 at 26/08/10 @ 16:10

  • Hypercube #66 1 year ago

    The NA Beta site has a new post, it's up on FFXIV Core.

    From the article:
    For the first eight thresholds during this week-long period, players will receive skill/experience points at the maximum rate possible. The actual amount of time spent reaching these thresholds is not significant. That is to say, a player who exceeds eight hours of gameplay will still be rewarded the maximum amount of skill/experience points, so long as the total amount earned is below the eighth threshold value. For the subsequent seven thresholds, players will earn skill/experience points at a gradually decreasing rate, eventually reaching a rate of zero.

    So it's not time based, it's XP based. It will be interesting to see what these thresholds will be!

    Edited by 1 at 26/08/10 @ 16:16

  • sneetch #67 1 year ago

    @Hypercube
    If you've reached this far, thanks for reading!

    Any time! ;)

    Ahh, I think I have misunderstood the character/class relationship. One character, multiple classes, I like that. With the way you've explained it yeah, I agree, it's not a punishment (or not much of a punishment). Especially if there's other things than simply levelling, that is the problem with so many MMOs, rush to get to the level cap and then you realise there's nothing there.

    I'm a wanderer in these games, that's why I love games with large open worlds and dislike heavily instanced MMOs. I particularly loved the little rewards for exploring in LOTRO and WAR. Nothing that affected the game all that much just a little incentive for doing something other than levelling.

    "casual/hardcore" (I FUCKING HATE THOSE TERMS)

    Amen, brother.

  • Paulie_P #68 1 year ago

    Surely if you pay for your subscription on a MMO, you should be able to put as many hours as you want into it to get more value out of subscription?

  • Hypercube #69 1 year ago

    @Paulie_P - there's nothing that is stopping anyone from playing. It affects the gain of physical XP, and changing class allows you to gain skills for the new class.

    Is an hour spent not getting XP but having fun a wasted hour?
    Edited by 1 at 26/08/10 @ 17:27

  • patchbox360 #70 1 year ago

    if you are a casual gamer you're not gonna be playing this game anyway.

  • Paulie_P #71 1 year ago

    Maybe it will mean that players won't try to grind.

  • The12thMonkey #72 1 year ago

    Eff me.
    I didn't expect to actually find an internet comment thread/forum that would actually see the positives in this mechanic. I was watching the shitstorm gathering yesterday, whilst I spent my last few hours running around the closed beta for some idillic screenshot locations (it rained ALL the time... ruined all my photo ops... and then it rained ALL today and ruined my cricket too! But I digress). The core fansites for 14 (ZAM, BG, Eorzeapedia, Core, etc) have so many people flying off the handle about this it's unreal.

    It's not even like I'm coming from an occasional user of MMOs angle - I've played FF11 since December 2003. I've seen lots (though not everything) that the world has to offer and I played it at my pace. The line about an MMO not being just about the XP bar is one of the best things I've read about this topic - thanks Hypercube. During beta, I managed to only push one class into Surplus SKILL/EXP territory - Lancer - and it didn't take very long to drop back out of it. I had already heard of Surplus by this point (probably a month ago) when it was starting to get noticed, but I just went and did something else in game. Explored. Tried some crafting. Chatted to some NPCs for some lore.

    I imagine that there will be changes to the system, probably an increased threshhold, or a slower rate of decay once over the threshhold, but the design choice seems like a valid one to me. It's quite heartening to hear from a community (EG) that is made up of a wider spectrum of views than the fansites and find a more measured and sensible debate.
    Edited by 1 at 26/08/10 @ 18:37

  • Nazo #73 1 year ago

    As a fairly casual ex-FFXI player, I think they've kind of missed the point here.
    Firstly when playing an unpopular job it wasn't unusual for me to go hours at a time doing nothing but standing about with my party flag up. If that counts toward the limit then it's not going to work.
    Secondly the thing that made FFXI so casual unfriendly was the economy, if you didn't have hours to to kill farming, crafting or otherwise engaged in money-making activities you couldn't get the money to buy the gear for your level, and if you didn't have the best gear you got a lot of stick for it. This system will probably result in a greater rich / poor divide as people spend more time making money and less time making xp.

  • Slipstream #74 1 year ago

    You can spout casual player all you like at tne end of the day, but after checking out beta vids, the intricate elements like crafting, classes, and menus still all over the place, this wouldn't be selling me a casual experience, if I were casual of course. ;)

  • Prehensile_Plant #75 1 year ago

    So glad to see other people who don't think this is the end of the world. My old 11 linkshell was starting to come back together for this game, which was really great to see. Now I've got my hands full of Americans with cancelled pre order threats who think this is the end of the world. I'm more like 'I had to stop playing 11 when I got a full time job that required I keep a UK timezome because I couldn't keep up with you lot, and I'm supposed to hate a system that ensures I CAN?'

    I think SE will scale it back (and prolly should), but I hope they have the guts to stick with the general idea.

  • Lamb #76 1 year ago

    Ahh the snoozefest that was FFIII has put me off the series. III was my favorite on the SNES. VII was enjoyable till they killed off Aeris. Also they overcommercialized Cloud over the years in a really bad way. VIII and IX were okay and I liked X.

    XII had a nice mechanic of moving and attacking. Would like to see more of that like Star Ocean Till The End of Time mixed with some Dynasty Warriors and Fallout 3. And have an alternate story narration instead of hearing Cocoon every other line.

    Maybe I'll give FFIII another chance but not for a while.

    The eight hours limit should be per day. As most working people do and it should be optional. But without innovation this series will not draw me in anymore.

  • KreyAtiv #77 1 year ago

    Surely they can have some sort of system set up that those with higher levels are able to see others in that same category. Say level 0 - 10, 11-20 etc. I mean capping the amount of XP you can get just because you are into the game and may have a bit more time to play it than others it shouldn't punish you for it.

  • witchdrash #78 1 year ago

    From what I can gather from the beta is this game is being rushed out, it's ideal release date would probably be around the march release scheduled for the PS3, however they have 2 issues, Cataclysm and Tor, both of which could cause FFXIV to die early, due to the fact that WoW and Starwars will definitely beat it in the west. Unfortunately this means that while the base systems are pretty solid, ui needs speeding up and hardware mouse implemented, all endgame has vanished gone, the lack of endgame means that anyone powering through their levelling will end up with nothing to do for months, quit and they haven't got the solid player base to survive the q1/q2 storm next year, so they're restricting levelling, I wouldn't be suprised if this system was dropped 3 months after release once some end game content lands

  • bemaniac #79 1 year ago

    i'm kinda casual as an mmo player these days and i just don't understand how to play this game in beta let alone for more than 5 hours

  • mdeeRocks #80 1 year ago

    If you play any game more than 15 hours a week, you've got more problems than just capped XP.

    I wasn't really planning to buy FFXIV, but now I am interested. An MMO with people who have lives.. interesting concept.

  • Hypercube #81 1 year ago

    wtf? where did my entire comment go? Silly internet!

    @Nazo - Anyway, it's not based on a time limit - it's an XP threshold. You could stand around for 24 hours not doing anything, and it wouldn't affect your surplus.
    Edited by 2 at 27/08/10 @ 09:56

  • BuddyChrist #82 1 year ago

    After playing the game for an hour the game suggests a glass of water and a change of scene, after two hours it starts punishing you with mocking comments, then finally starts draining your characters life like in-game HIV, ultimately increasing the longevity of the game, while being able to sell copies to those noncommittal types who never used to consider final fantasy.

    It must be the Enix mix that screwed that company's credibility....

  • hobojebus #83 1 year ago

    Yeah i wasnt massivly interested to begin with but this kind of thing puts me off, if im paying i really feel i should decide how i play not the game by trying to force me into play styles i dont want.

    And i think alot of western players will feel the same.

  • Seoh #84 1 year ago

    I'm ok with this as long as i'm not being charged for time that i can't earn.

    eg i hit 15 hours in 3 days does that mean that after a week i only lose 3 days of game time from my account or 7?

  • JustinHiryu #85 1 year ago

    I realize that what I am about to say may be repeats of what others are saying, but it simply means that I agree with the majority here. Anyway, moving on.....

    About the xp fatigue system, it is:
    1.Not a good idea
    2.Never will be a good idea........EV-ER!

    I have no earthly clue why they ever considered this idea in the first place. They say that it is to prevent the unfair advantage of "more time"? Having more time is not unfair, nor is having less time fair. Some people have more time than others because people are different....they have different lives and different things to do or to shoot for. If some people have more or less things to do in their lives or with their time, then so be it. That is the way life is. And people SHOUD NOT be punished for having more time than others. Yes, some may say that 15 hours of play before they put your exp behind lock and key is enough, but think of it this way: Even if you were to split up your gameplay, say 5 hours a week, that means that in just three days of 5 hours each day, your exp will be nonexistant. Hardcore gamers could do 15 hours of gameplay in their sleep. And even casual gamers would burn through this fast enough that it would be a hinderance. I, myself, could do 15 hours in 1-2 days. Those who are playing the game since the 22 are playing either because of the beta or because they got the collector's edition. I, myself, got the collector's edition. Although, my pc is not high end enough to play it, I got the game because not only was I planning on getting the ps3 version, but I got the collector's edition simply because it is how much I support the game and the people who made it possible. So, the people who bought the game and are playing it now, not only spent close to 80 dollars to buy it, but are also choosing to pay 12.99 a month for it. Sorry, square-enix, but if people have chosen to pay you close to 100 dollars total for the first go-around and then a 12.99 or so fee per following month, then you do not DARE have the right to limit anyone else's gameplay experience in any way, shape, or form. People may have chosen to begin playing, but they can also chose to END playing. And, yes, the first month is free, however, this is the time when mistakes or bad decisions should not be made. For if a person does not like their experience when they are playing for free their first month, they are darn sure NOT going to bother paying for a bad experience any month after. Square-enix has tried so dilligently to set themselves up for success with this game. They have pushed themselves to their limits. It would be a shame if they set themselves up for failure now with this. The system does not need to be tweaked, nor does it need to be changed, it just needs do be done away with...PERIOD. However, if they wish to keep this fail of a system, perhaps why not make the fatigue as a penalty for dying. Like after you ressurect, for 5 or 10 minutes, you gain a percentage less of xp and then you gain normal once that time has expired. And, I am not saying that every problem that someone has with the game should be changed or fussed over, however, when it comes to user feedback, majority rules. Not just a few people have a problem with this system.....A LOT of people have a problem with this system.
    Edited by 2 at 28/09/10 @ 06:23

  • JustinHiryu #86 1 year ago

    Sorry for the double post, but I suppose that if the threshold is exp based, then it may be okay. It had best be rather high threshold, however.