Xbox 360 to get motion-sensing camera News

First.

Cock Pong.

You heard it here first.

Why would someone buy it as a standalone product? Nobody would go out to buy just a Wii Balance Board.It needs to be bundled with some appealling game to actually sell.

Slow day at the office EG? This was reported by various sources about two weeks ago, along with a photo of the actual device, it looks a bit like a Wii Sensor Bar, but all white and has the same stand as the Vision Camera. It was a bar with a camera and two sensors built in, the sensors apparantly gave the camera depth perception per se.

Here's the image - http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/ko...

@ Innes - Why do you care that you're first? Is it some sort of achievement? Mong.

Sigh.

The tech is pretty nifty but I do not like camera based motion tracking since the lighting in your room must be optimal and you need to stand in the perfect spot. In my place this will almost certainly fail since I have back lit window and sit far from TV.

If MS has bought the company, then this is almost certainly real. There's a video from last year's CES of the camera in action.

God i hate peripherals like this! you cant beat a controller, so dont try.

I'm confused... what was that Xbox camera they released a few years ago then?

@Steroyd

A waste of cash apart from getting your face in R6v and for pics in Burnout Paradise

"Microsoft recently required Israel-based"

I'm guessing you meant acquired.

@Dizzy

"The tech is pretty nifty but I do not like camera based motion tracking since the lighting in your room must be optimal and you need to stand in the perfect spot. In my place this will almost certainly fail since I have back lit window and sit far from TV."

This camera doesn't need light,it makes it...

See this http://www.3dvsystems.com/technology/tec...

Damn I just bought the Live Vision camera bundled with You're in the Movies (£14.99) from HMV for my daughter (I swear!). Guess that'll be relegated to webcam duty next year...

Does anyone know if you can use the PS2 Eye Toy games with PS3 Eye? I'm hoping to persuade the family to get a 60Gb PS3 from Computer Exchange for my birthday. My daughter loves all the Eye Toy games but the slim PS2 I've got is acting very erratic lately, so it'd be great to be able for her to play them on the PS3.

I can't wait for TotemBall 2!

>This camera doesn't need light,it makes it...

Still how well will it deal with back lit rooms?

Maybe in the future we will all have to game in a room with grid wallpaper ;) That would make WoW 3 run awesome! Swing that sword!

Agree with the comments about the camera. I also have one, and have only ever used it twice I think. Microsoft haven't really worked out why the Wii sells well, have they? Why they don't understand that peripherals sell very well when combined with games that are either original or make good use of the product is beyond me.

Admittedly, like most, I'm a convential console gamer. I don't need gadgets or care for the extra cost of motion control technology, to enjoy gaming. I just want quality games that work perfectly with the joypad. In fact if anything, I'd rather have a decent mouse/keyboard to connect so I can play first person shooters properly. I really hope this product fails because Microsoft has already taken enough money from us with that camera of theirs. I geniunely thought more games would've allowed you stick your own face on game characters at least, let alone make clever use of the camera. Microsoft should at least help if not partly finance developers to include the use of that camera into their games. Sometimes they come across as so desperate for our money, they forget to give us something back in return!!

Although I'm not interested in the Wii, I have to admit, the tea-lady at Ninentdo is probably more creative than the collective minds at Microsoft. I guess it's always been the policy of Microsoft to buy out other companies or copy the competition. No wonder they don't endear themselves to many. While some of their products are good (their joypad being outstanding in my opinion) I'm not surprised we rarely hear anyone say "I love Microsoft". They're just not a company you can really feel any emotional attachment to... unless you love banks, accountants and the taxman.

Why are Microsoft so bad at keeping secrets?

I don't remember the 'big reveal' they made that wasn't plastered all over the internet at least a month in advance!?

Why would someone buy it as a standalone product? Nobody would go out to buy just a Wii Balance Board.It needs to be bundled with some appealling game to actually sell.

And how the hell do you know that it will be sold as a standalone product anyway?

The tech is pretty nifty but I do not like camera based motion tracking since the lighting in your room must be optimal and you need to stand in the perfect spot. In my place this will almost certainly fail since I have back lit window and sit far from TV.

Lighting is irrelevant, it works out everything using IR. The camera part is just used to display your image on screen when required.

Sony have made a huge success in Europe from the eye toy, with the eye camera yet to take off properly. People seem to forget this.

Perhaps Microsoft are expecting Sony to release a large amount of games at E3 geared towards the eye camera?

The tech is pretty nifty but I do not like camera based motion tracking since the lighting in your room must be optimal and you need to stand in the perfect spot.

So, you've already used this system, then?

@SHPanda: Check Innes user recent post activity. :)

Piss off
The 360 controller is excellent and does a fab job.

And how the hell do you know that it will be sold as a standalone product anyway?

It wasn't easy, and I fully understand if people missed the subtle clues that were laid out, but I cunningly figured this out by reading the article, in which it is plainly stated that "it'll be available as a standalone product and perhaps later on as part of a hardware bundle."

Lighting is irrelevant, it works out everything using IR. The camera part is just used to display your image on screen when required.

Still, it might go wrong if too much direct sunlight (which is also infrared) blasts onto the camera through the windows.

Although I'd love to see some good motion sensing implimented in some 360 games, I'm very dubious about using a camera system.

I like the Wiimote because you can stand up with it (take massive swings in sports games or loon about in warioware) or you can use it sat down playing more sedate games like boom blox, world of goo, etc..

I don't want to be forced to stand in one particular spot to play a game.

Also, surely this will only allow one player at a time? I know splitscreen gaming has taken a backseat this generation but this is not going to sit well.

Sorry, but this camera solution is not going to work. Just copy the Wiimote (with motionplus)

"Sony have made a huge success in Europe from the eye toy, with the eye camera yet to take off properly."

Yet to take off properly? How long has eyetoy been out now? Don't you think it would have made an impact already if it was anything but a limited use gimmick?

Camera technology is inherently flawed as a gaming control mechanism due to positional, lighting and image recognition problems. It will never, ever become mainstream. Gamers don't like to be constrained to one place. They have differing seating habits, they shift, they lounge, they eat, drink and smoke while gaming.

Force them to sit or stand bolt upright in one position for more than a minute and your audience is gone.

I don't want to be forced to stand in one particular spot to play a game.

Earlier reports said the system would be able to pick up on hand gestures too. That would mean being able to just lie on the couch, gesturing with one hand, or just swinging your arm while the rest of your body remains comatose.

The motion sensing Wii works because the entire experience is based around motion control. The guitar hero guitar sells because it is bundled with a game that people really seem to like I think asking "what happened to the last camera idea you tried" is a valid question. They brought it out and then completely forgot about it.

@Domovoi

"Earlier reports said the system would be able to pick up on hand gestures too. That would mean being able to just lie on the couch, gesturing with one hand, or just swinging your arm while the rest of your body remains comatose."

Not wishing to sound condescending, but how can you possibly believe that claim?

Even military level image recognition technology would be unlikely to be able to track a small, low-contrast object like a hand with any kind of accuracy.

You can imagine the amount of processor power needed to scan and identify objects in even a narrow field of view at distances of up to, say 2 meters, which is what would be required for hand tracking. That kind of processing and image recognition software is not going to be affordable and certainly wouldnt fit in a sensor bar.

In ideal conditions, at an optimal distance with an extremely narrow field of view you could make a camera system work, but with low accuracy. Couch gaming with a camera? Not in this, or the next generation.

For the people actually interested in this, here are some demo's from the company MS bought.
Looks pretty nifty imo.

http://www.3dvsystems.com/gallery/galler...
@ Ashen.
Just check out the video's, it's definitely possible

Agreed. They can't suddenly make all 360 games motion controlled, because then what about the people who don't have the peripheral? So motion control in 360 games will either be optional, which means only a handful of games, or motion controls will hamhandedly be tacked onto games that have control schemes suited to the 360's primary controller. Even the Wii only has a couple of games that use motion controls well, the rest are mainly using motion because it just happens to be the way you control it, not because it adds anything to the experience that a regular controller wouldn't.

This is going to make a mess in my room if it works!

Not wishing to sound condescending, but how can you possibly believe that claim?

I don't believe it, I'm saying that that's what was reported, and those reports are the only thing we have to go on. The device isn't even confirmed yet, for pete's sake. Even the involvement of 3DV's technology is little more than a rumor based on a recent acquisition.There's not much sense in instantly dismissing everything reported about it, when you're not even sure what kind of tech it uses. That's about as nonsensical as immediately taking wild reported claims as truth.

Even military level image recognition technology would be unlikely to be able to track a small, low-contrast object like a hand with any kind of accuracy.

Sources?

You can imagine the amount of processor power needed to scan and identify objects in even a narrow field of view at distances of up to, say 2 meters, which is what would be required for hand tracking. That kind of processing and image recognition software is not going to be affordable and certainly wouldnt fit in a sensor bar.

So, what image processing hard/software have you worked on that you can make these claims with such certainty?

@Ashen-Shugar

You've misunderstood me. The eye toy has been a huge success and has taken off massively in Europe. The eye camera (the PS3 eye toy) has yet to make it big with some games coming out this year geared towards the camera (the eye pet game for example).

Camera control in video games can work extremely well (Burnout Paradise uses it to take a screenshot of the user when they crash their car for example). Its in its very early stages though and developers are overdoing it.

@siro

Rofl, nice find!

What an absolute cock, deserves a ban!

On the matter of the camera, it must come down to the developers to integrate it into their games. I mean what ever happened to voice control? This will go the same way as all the other peripherals if it is not supported properly, and i don't just mean for obvious Wii copies but real games.

I know someone who works somewhere where this is being used and they tell me it's definitely a LOT better than the Eyetoy. It's probably MS aiming at some of the Wii's users, but with a much higher quality of product. (That is not a dig at the Wii remote, this system has a very different feel...if it works)

@MrChuckles The eye toy is old PS2 tech... Sony has the eye camera already for the PS3, its far better than the eye toy.

@Vistrix

"You've misunderstood me. The eye toy has been a huge success and has taken off massively in Europe. The eye camera (the PS3 eye toy) has yet to make it big with some games coming out this year geared towards the camera (the eye pet game for example)."

Please define 'taken off massively', because I've only ever seen one eyetoy camera in action once in my life. I know only one person who has ever owned an eyetoy. In game stores eyetoys are stuffed away on the 'seldom bought and even less often used' peripheral shelf, and I could probably count the number of eyetoy-compatible games on my fingers.

Eyetoy has always been, and will always be, a curiosity. Same for the MS camera. A handful of games amongst tens of thousands really doesnt equal success.

"Camera control in video games can work extremely well (Burnout Paradise uses it to take a screenshot of the user when they crash their car for example). Its in its very early stages though and developers are overdoing it."

/doubletake

Camera controls in games are plainly and simply awful. Taking a snapshot is not camera control. Eyetoy and LiveCamera games are largely random affairs. There is no 'control', there is 'wave and hope'.

Still how well will it deal with back lit rooms?

Since it's based on infra-red LEDs, one might assume that it'll work as reliably as your TV remote control.

I just hope that someday one of these motion-control solutions will bring us a home conversion of Mazan: Flash of the Blade. Which, incidentally, used multi-point infra-red light detection, albeit via a big red metal hoop.

@Ashen-Shugar you're basing its success on the fact that you havent seen many of them around?

I know its gimmicky, but the eyetoy is hugely successful, its sold over 10 million units worldwide. There are some upcoming games on the PS3 that look extremely promising for the updated eye camera. Im sure Microsoft have realised this and just want to get a share of it. Casual gamers will lap it up to begin with.

If integrated well enough though, a camera in games can be great. Look at LittleBigPlanet for example.

@Vistrix - Sorry, what i meant is that it is already being used for applications and games that none of the other current camera systems can do. Then again, i expect it won't be able to do some of the things the Wii does as well as it is pretty different.

I expect it will impress a lot of people at E3, especially people who don't normally play games, hardcore gamers will likely go 'it's impressive, but i don't like the games it has', a bit like 95% of Wii titles.

Can't say I'm excited about this.

How would you be able to play tennis two (or even four) player in the same room?

@Domovoi

"I don't believe it, I'm saying that that's what was reported"

Fair enough then. I just jope and pray that what's being reported is bogus because it will suck, and it will suck hard.

@Vistrix

"I know its gimmicky, but the eyetoy is hugely successful, its sold over 10 million units worldwide."

Okay, so some parents bought the camera for their kids so they could see their face on the screen whilst playing a game, but we're talking about using the camera as a control mechanism here and it simply doesnt work. Control of any object is largely random using cameras.


"If integrated well enough though, a camera in games can be great."

No, it can't!! It can't do anything more substantial than facemapping or taking a snapshot of you mooning the camera. Whilst a fun diversion for approximately one minute, I'd hardly call that a contribution toward gaming.

@nickfernando:

For what it's worth, the Live Vision camera makes a really good webcam for PC :)

Ashen you need to actually take a look at what this camera is capable of...

http://www.3dvsystems.com/gallery/galler...

It is defiantly a massive step forward from the eyetoy type camera's of old and I can see how Microsoft can see this as being a contender for the wii's motion capture system

But of course what this all really boils down to is how good the games are that use this interface

As I am reading this its nothing to do with image recognition. It's actually mapping the room you are in and everything in it with infra red. It's constantly updating its map and it compares the differences to judge movement. It's basically firing off infra red and measuring the time it takes to bounce back to its sensors to build its 3d image. It's actually far simpler than image recognition because its keeping track of 3d objects and does not even need to be aware of the colour or lighting on the object.

I like the tech but there is still no way I am standing in the middle of my front room waving my arms around like a loon.

"Ashen you need to actually take a look at what this camera is capable of... "

Judging by those videos the camera is capable of eyetoy-style 'my face in the game' but in 3D.

The actual motion control is still a twitchy, innacurate, slow updating mess as capably demonstrated by the body mapping and boxing videos.

All they have done is add another dimension to eyetoy. The inherent problems with eyetoy are still right there, in those videos.

Another thing to take note of is that we don't know what spec cameras or processors they are running in their development setup, but I would suspect they would use their very best kit for those demos, and they are still only updating at what appears to be around 20fps with very bad fast motion tracking and twitchy slow motion tracking.

I'll bet a kraft dinner that what goes on sale to the public isn't as powerful as the kit they were demonstrating.

Yep. definitely dreading E3 now, I sense another MS "look we are casual and fun as well! Look you can jump around like a wally to crap software with XBox to!" event like last year.

"The tech is pretty nifty but I do not like camera based motion tracking since the lighting in your room must be optimal and you need to stand in the perfect spot.

So, you've already used this system, then? "

Yes I have used similar stuff at conventions for this kind of stuff and I have seen this one actually in action (in ideal conditions).

But apparently this one uses IR.... that would probably work. I didn't know that.

They will release it, release 2-3 games, then not bother with it again just like the xbox vision! And from the picture people have posted, it looks bloody awefull!