World of Warcraft: Naxxramas Raid Guide

Approaching Lich King's starter for ten.

With the latest World of Warcraft expansion Wrath of the Lich King, Blizzard's stated aim has been to get more people involved in the game's top-tier "raid" dungeons. It's made all of them accessible to 10-player groups, and attempted to smooth their notoriously steep difficulty curves. In the first of an occasional series aimed at the novice raider, we present a tour of Lich King's "starter" raid, Naxxramas, in its 10-man version.

The little-seen pinnacle of Blizzard's 40-player raid design, the Naxxramas Necropolis makes a welcome return in new expansion Wrath of the Lich King, now serving as an entry-level raid dungeon for 10- and 25-player groups. Hovering ominously over the south-eastern area of Dragonblight, it is home to Kel'Thuzad, right-hand man of the Lich King, and his legion of unpleasant minions. While some of the encounters have been tweaked and simplified from their original versions to reflect the smaller group sizes and a less strict class representation, the principles remain largely the same and can provide a considerable challenge for those unfamiliar to them and/or new to raiding.

With the expansion directly addressing many of the issues of group composition and "class stacking" that affected raiding in the past, raiding is no longer so strictly balanced around assuming specific classes, talent specs, and the abilities available only to them. Blizzard has said that its intention now is for groups to "bring the player, not the class" - and as a result, this new incarnation of Naxxramas demands very little in terms of arranging groups, and class stacking is unnecessary for quick progression.

The only real requirement now is that you have two tanks and two healers - the rest is up to you. Naturally, things may be easier with certain abilities available to call upon, but as long as the raid is skilled and geared to an appropriate degree - say, at least all blue-quality gear from level 80 dungeons - and is able to grasp the mechanics of the encounters, any reasonable combination of classes and talent specs should be able to succeed.

The Arachnid Quarter

'World of Warcraft: Naxxramas Raid Guide' Screenshot 1

Naxxramas broods over Dragonblight.

Generally considered the easiest of Naxxramas' four wings, the Arachnid Quarter contains 3 bosses lurking amongst enough spiders to make an arachnophobe out of anyone. The first of these is Anub'Rekhan, a giant scarab-like creature. He begins the fight alone but regularly calls for guards to assist him which must be quickly picked up and killed before returning attention to Anub'Rekhan. Other than his guards, he has three abilities of note: firstly, he sends a trail of spikes along the ground to impale anything in their path, so everyone should avoid bunching up; secondly, anything that dies during the fight, be it guards or players, will spawn dozens of vicious scarabs soon after which will swarm your healers if not dealt with; and lastly, roughly every minute or so, he will begin to cast Insect Swarm, a deadly aura that destroys anything close by, so the tank must run to the other side of the chamber in a manner than prevents the Insect Swarm coming close to the rest of the group, as the slow-moving scarab lord chases after.

Defeat Anub'Rekhan and you should soon find your way to Grand Widow Faerlina and her entourage. Unlike most fights where the boss has guards nearby, these should not be killed immediately, as they play an important role in the battle. While having a rain of fire and volleys of poisonous bolts at her disposal, Faerlina's deadliest ability is her Frenzy, whereupon she will increase both the damage and frequency of her attacks to the point where your tank will soon crumble. However, killing one of her worshippers after it occurs will nullify the effect and return her to normal for a while, so they should all be held by a second tank, and one killed by the raid whenever necessary. Due to the limited number of worshippers, Faerlina's frenzy cannot be dispelled indefinitely, so the group cannot take too long to kill her.

The final boss of the Arachnid Quarter is Maexxna, an ever-so-slightly large spider. The most testing encounter of the area, she unleashes dozens of spider hatchlings, will randomly place a player in a poisonous cocoon that must be broken quickly if they are to survive and, worst of all, uses a web spray to completely immobilise everyone for 8 seconds at a time, putting the tank in dire peril as she continues to attack. To make matters worse, the closer she gets to death, the more powerful she becomes, so those 8 second periods become unbearably long as she rains blows on the tank while everyone watches helplessly. Survive this torturous final 30 per cent, and with her death a portal on the wall becomes active and the raid can return to the centre of the necropolis to decide the next place to go.

The Construct Quarter

Housing more bosses than any other, the Construct Quarter contains all kinds of bizarre experiments dreamt up by the Lich King's mad scientists. While Naxxramas was originally famed for the varied mechanics of its battles, the first construct boss, Patchwerk, was the exception to the rule and is the concept of a 'tank & spank' fight taken to the brutal extreme. Hitting both the tank and offtank devastatingly and relentlessly, healers are tasked with keeping both up in the face of Patchwerk's fearsome barrage of blows. Meanwhile, the raid's damage dealers must go all out with everything they have if they are to kill him within 6 minutes, at which point he enrages and becomes unstoppable. Relying less on execution or strategy than the other encounters, Patchwerk serves as the first real "gear check" of Naxxramas.

With him gone, there's a fun Frogger homage before you encounter Grobbulus, a strange, lumbering giant in the next room. Creating ever-increasing ripples of poison at his feet, Grobbulus must be moved all around the room if they are to be avoided. He also randomly injects players with venom, both poisoning them and causing them to spawn ripples of their own after a few seconds, thus reducing further the already limited amount of space available. Finally, he will create blobs of slime which must be tanked and killed. Not a particularly demanding fight, the main problem is the lack of space that ensues as it goes on, and the raid will likely find itself hemmed in with nowhere to run as the fight nears its end.

A quick jaunt up a ramp and through a sewer pipe and you'll arrive at Gluth, essentially a giant zombie dog, and one with quite the appetite. Possessing a vicious anti-healing debuff, you'll need two tanks to take turns on him while it wears off. Gluth also regularly frenzies, increasing both the speed and damage of his attacks, though this can be dispelled by certain classes. While all this goes on, numerous zombies are dumped into the room to feed him. Untankable and with too much health to be immediately killed, some lucky soul must kite them around for 90 seconds or so until Gluth uses his Decimate attack. This reduces the health of everything in the room to a quarter of its normal amount and sends the zombies running towards him. Any that reach Gluth are immediately eaten, with each one restoring 5 per cent of his health, so they must quickly be blasted down with all the area-of-effect (AoE) attacks the group has at its disposal.

'World of Warcraft: Naxxramas Raid Guide' Screenshot 2

Heigan the Unclean from the Plague Quarter. Everybody dance!

With Gluth dead, the gate to his room is unlocked and the path is clear to the final encounter of the Construct Quarter - Thaddius. Blizzard's homage to the story of Frankenstein, Thaddius plays no part in the fight at first; instead he lies inert at the back of a huge chamber. Two guards, Feugen and Stalagg, stand watch on raised platforms on opposite sides of the room and it is them the raid must first deal with. Apart from regularly pulling the other's tank to them, they pose little real threat. However, they must die within seconds of each other before the next stage of the fight can start else the first to die will resurrect itself, putting things back to square one. Should you time it right, both of them die and the raid has a few seconds to leap across to Thaddius' platform for the second stage of the fight.

Tesla coils overload and Thaddius springs into life! After a few seconds of combat, he begins building up a large burst of electrical energy which polarizes everyone with either a positive or negative electrical charge. There are a few scant seconds for the players to sort themselves into + or - groups, apart from each other - if stood near players with the same polarity as you, your damage capabilities are multiplied, and this buff is essential as Thaddius has a huge amount of hit points to whittle down before he enrages. However, if players with opposite polarities stand too close to each other instead, sparks really will fly. To complicate matters further, he will continue to hit the group with the charges, sometimes changing their polarity and sometimes not, so players must be aware and ready to move again if necessary.

The Plague Quarter

The smallest wing of the four, the Plague Quarter has three bosses in fairly quick succession. The first of these, Noth the Plaguebringer, lies not far from the entrance and paces restlessly in his lair until the raid attack him. As the fight goes on, he calls upon the dead to rise up and assist him, so attention must be spread equally between attacking him and killing the spawns so the raid isn't overwhelmed. To make matters worse, Noth will randomly apply a curse to three members of the group which, if not removed within 10 seconds, will cause substantial damage to the entire group. He will also Blink away on occasion, resetting all threat and so putting any inattentive damage dealers at risk if they don't give the tank time on him again. Lastly, after 90 seconds of combat, Noth will teleport completely out of range and send more risen dead against the raid for a couple of minutes. Each time he does this, more and more skeletons will spawn so if he doesn't die before the third teleport, the raid runs the risk of being overrun completely.

With Noth out of the way, a gate to a dank grotto filled with grubs, bats and shambling beasts is revealed. After clearing a path through it, the raid will confront one of the more notorious inhabitants of Naxxramas, Heigan the Unclean. A fight split between two alternating stages, the first sees Heigan dragged back and forth across the floor of his chamber by the tank and melee while the healers and ranged attackers stand on his platform. The second phase begins when Heigan teleports back to his platform and starts channelling a deadly aura around him, forcing everyone off. It's at this point the Heigan Dance begins. Acid erupts from the floor below and the raid must quickly run across the room, stopping briefly at certain safe spots before moving off to the next. Any delay or wrong positioning will see players almost instantly killed by the eruptions, so knowing when and where to move to is crucial. After avoiding 8 or so eruptions, Heigan will rejoin the fray, and so things repeat until he finally dies.

After Heigan is a corridor filled with rapidly respawning grubs and faintly sinister eye-stalks. Originally it was used as part of the Heigan encounter, with a few players randomly teleported to the far end of it and having to battle their way back to their teammates. Now, it simply serves as the last minor obstacle before the final boss of the Plague Quarter, Loatheb.

In his original form, Loatheb was arguably the epitome of all that was wrong with raiding prior to the 2.1 patch of The Burning Crusade. Requiring almost every buff possible for every serious attempt, it was not unheard of for guilds to pay other players hundreds of gold to turn in items that provided world buffs (Onyxia's Head, Hakkar's Heart and so on) for any advantage they could get to defeat him. Fortunately, while the basic principles of the fight remain, it's been changed to be far less demanding. Loatheb's main ability is a Necrotic Aura which is applied to the entire room. Lasting for 15 seconds at a time, it negates any and all healing effects completely, even potions and healthstones. Additionally, he places various curses on the raid which deal damage over time and gradually leave everyone's health perilously low. Once the Necrotic Aura runs out, there are a few seconds before it's reapplied so the healers must use that time to heal both the tank and the raid as much as possible.

The other component of the fight are spores which periodically appear. When destroyed, they shower a small area directly beneath them with a buff that grants whoever receives it increased damage and chance to hit, and they're essential for undergeared groups if they are to have a chance of victory (though naturally there is an achievement based around not using any at all).

The Military Quarter

'World of Warcraft: Naxxramas Raid Guide' Screenshot 3

Death Knights in the Military Quarter.

Rounding off the four corners of Naxxramas, there is the Military Quarter, where the Lich King's Death Knights like to hang out and swap fishing stories. There are lots of patrols to be dealt with here, more than in the other wings, and it can take some time to clear through to the first challenge of the area, Instructor Razuvious.

A fearsome Death Knight, and Karate Kid fan to boot, Razuvious is accompanied by a pair of students who are key to defeating him. Unlike other bosses, Razuvious generally hits far too hard for any tank to realistically cope with so, thanks to the handily-placed mind-control devices, his students must be used to taunt and tank him instead, while the raid attack him. The students must take turns, as even with their greater health, they will quickly die unless their Bone Armour ability is available to use to reduce the damage taken. In addition to his great strength, Razuvious will also randomly throw knives at players and cause AoE damage to everyone with a Disrupting Shout. Though initially tricky, this is one of the easiest encounters in Naxxramas and it shouldn't take too long to beat.

Following Razuvious and the various trash packs lurking after lies Gothik the Harvester, observing all from the safety of a balcony high out of reach. A wall and gate divides his room in two and the raid must equally split into a side each. Once the encounter begins, the gate slams shut and Gothik sends his legions into battle on the left side of the room, slowly at first, but in eve- increasing and more powerful numbers. Each that dies on the 'live' side is then raised to attack the players on the 'dead' side of the room. The danger here lies in the live side team killing their enemies so quickly as to swamp the dead side, yet killing fast enough to make sure they themselves aren't overwhelmed instead. After a few minutes of this, the waves cease, and Gothik leaves his balcony to join the attack on the live side group, teleporting back and forth between both sides of the room. Eventually, the gate opens and the players are reunited as they try and finish him before his ever-increasing debuff reduces the raid's stats completely and kills it.

With Gothik's demise, just one obstacle remains between the raid and entry into the heart of Naxxramas - the Four Horsemen. Both acclaimed and reviled in their original incarnation for the degree of co-ordination, tactical expertise and class stacking required to defeat them, the Horsemen remain a tricky proposition even in this simplified form.

The Four are Sir Zeliek, Lady Blaumeux, Thane Korgazz and - substituting for absent former horseman Mograine - Stratholme's own Baron Rivendare. The former two can be tanked by anyone standing within 20 yards of them, while the latter two are tanked normally. Each horseman has a variety of unique attacks, but all have one thing in common: after a certain number of seconds, each will apply a damaging and stacking debuff named after themselves (for example, the Mark of Rivendare) on anyone within a large radius of them, and will continue to apply more until the damage it does becomes fatal. To cope with this, the simplest way is to just have your respective tanks trade places with each other so that the first set of marks fade while another set are applied from their new target. As each horseman reaches 50 per cent health, they will Shield Wall to reduce the amount of damage they take, and even if killed, their corpses will continue to apply marks to whoever is in range.

With all four quarters cleared, the platform above the entrance becomes active, and access to the heart of Naxxramas is available.

Frostwyrm Lair

A large circular room with a mass of bones in its centre, the opposite side of Frostwyrm Lair features a doorway covered in ice. As the raid nears the centre, the bones begin to swirl and come together until the frostwyrm Sapphiron is formed. A blue dragon encountered by Arthas and Anub'arak as they journeyed through Northrend, the then-Death Knight was impressed with his foe and raised him from the dead to serve the Scourge.

A relatively straightforward battle, Sapphiron could nonetheless be the hardest encounter to be found in Naxxramas. Like many dragons, he has a highly damaging cleave that will easily kill any melee who stray too near his front, and a whip of his tail will send players flying across the room. Additionally, Sapphiron will cast a large blizzard to rain ice shards down on parts of the room, as well as a life-drain on a selected player which, if not dispelled, will quickly reduce their health while increasing his own. Despite these formidable abilities, it is his ever-present Frost Aura that presents the greatest danger to the raid, constantly dealing damage to everyone every few seconds throughout the fight and likely to tax your healers to the limit. Frost resistance gear, while not necessary, may be a great help to inexperienced or undergeared groups here.

'World of Warcraft: Naxxramas Raid Guide' Screenshot 4

Sapphiron in Frostwyrm Lair.

After a minute or so of combat, Sapphiron will take flight and spit frost bolts at 2 to 3 players, each doing considerable damage to anyone nearby and encasing the target in a block of ice, immobilising them for as long as it lasts. He then takes a deep breath and unleashes a huge cloud of frost over the entire chamber that slowly falls to the ground, which will instantly kill anyone it touches. The only way for the players to save themselves is to rush to the ice blocks their team-mates are trapped in and hide behind them, out of line of sight from Sapphiron and the frost cloud. Once the cloud hits the ground, the ice blocks are destroyed, and Sapphiron flies back down to resume the fight. The pattern repeats until death, whereupon a member of the group can loot an item that will allow access to the Malygos encounter in Coldarra. Meanwhile, the barricade of ice over the door shatters and the path is cleared to...

Kel'Thuzad

Once a member of the Kirin Tor who became enamoured with the forbidden arts of Necromancy, Kel'Thuzad was lured to Northrend by the Lich King and went on to become perhaps the most notable and infamous of his subjects. He is untargetable at first, and calls upon the legions of the Scourge to aid him; a small army of walking dead, abominations and banshees appear to answer this call. After a few minutes with the raid under siege, their numbers begin to thin out and Kel'thuzad finally joins the fray.

His most common attack is a volley of frostbolts which will hit most - if not all - of the raid. Additionally, he casts a single, highly damaging frostbolt at the tank, and a frost blast at a player which encases them and anyone standing too close at the time in a block of ice for 4 seconds, and does a fatal amount of damage over that time if not healed through. Another spell at his disposal is Detonate Mana, which burns through a portion of a caster's mana and causes damage to anyone nearby at the end of it. Finally, he will target a player and create a shadowy fissure beneath them which quickly explodes and instantly kills anything within.

At around the 45 per cent mark, a desperate Kel'Thuzad implores the Lich King for assistance. Portals open around the chamber and two Guardians of Icecrown enter the battle. These must be picked up and offtanked as they have too much health to realistically kill, so the fight becomes a race to finish off Kel'Thuzad before his increasingly powerful Guardians become strong enough to kill your tanks. Once their master is defeated, the Guardians scramble for the nearby portals and leave. Naxxramas is yours!

Comments (42) Latest comment 3 years ago

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  • Byzanite #1 3 years ago

    no wonder WoW players are sleep deprived.
  • James-Caldari #2 3 years ago

    Really useful guide. Unfortunately, as a casual player it makes me realise the only thing I will bring to a raid is a quick death.

    "Press that lever, then shoot that guard, then click your heels three times, then body-pop until he reaches 45% at which point make him a cup of tea, watch Jeremy Kyle, discuss the pros-and-cons of farting in a bath tub, then - as he hits 10% - RIVERDANCE!"

    Can't I just shoot them in the face? Repeatedly.
  • Canyarion #3 3 years ago

    Who needs a guide when it's this easy already? It's really a shame, this was the instance we wiped on for months and months. It was so incredibly hard...

    And now? It's an insult to the original Naxxramas.
  • shamblemonkee #4 3 years ago

    it's entry level for 80....
  • Eraysor #5 3 years ago

    Curses. My main is only level 70, and I only reached that a couple days ago, so now EG has forced me to stop doing my assignment so I can level >_
  • levitate #6 3 years ago

    Can't be bothered with this anymore.
  • levitate #7 3 years ago

    Agree with jstar 101%.
  • levitate #8 3 years ago

    Why this guide? They should make an extensive guide on how to level 1-10. That's the hardest part of the game these days.
  • James-Caldari #9 3 years ago

    I also agree with jstar. We all pays the same fees, we should all sees the sames things, ag ag ag.
  • Canyarion #10 3 years ago

    @jstar & his fans

    Thanks for the personal insults. We need more nice people like you.

    Not that it matters, but I quit WoW 2 years ago.

    I think you're forgetting one important thing: 10-man and 25-man. 10-man is meant for casual players. 25-man is for more serious raiders. Both are easy.
    Maybe some day you'll discover the joy it brings to work hard for your reward. The harder it is, the more satisfying. Yes it took some time, but it was fun. Defeating a boss after weeks of practice is amazing, something you probably won't experience.

    Edited by 1 at 18/12/08 @ 15:13
  • Krelle #11 3 years ago

    I agree with Canyarion.
    I loved 40 man raids. And i loved the teamwork that places like (old)Naxx required of the player. You danced with joy when you were able to kill a boss and raiding in wow in its original form is still one of the best and strongest, most rewarding things ive done in a game.

    To those who call people who raid for "elitists", you have no clue what you speak about, so please keep the hate for yourselves.
    You dont need to be hardcore in any way to raid. Just have the will, and a working guild. Sure, you may not have been able to clear ALL the encounters in old Naxx w/o a really hardcore guild (in this regard, I admit it was too hard, but only alittle), but you could still experience and enjoy it.


    Naxx, in its present state, is too easy, which makes the whole experience less satisfying for -everyone-.
  • VicViper #12 3 years ago

    Well theres the thing Canyarion, strangely enough I don't play games to work hard, yes things should require skill and the reward is away more well rewarding when you get it because you can look back and think that was awsome and I did that and not many others will and maybe in a game where just grinding for every and then wrecking stuff with math working hard is a misnomer after a while all you doing is following on screen queues and minmaxing stats and your own strat is that fun? maybe? I'll never do that so I can't say.

    I'm a causal player I have no illusions that when I bring down a boss that it is elite, by the time I get there top guilds will have it on farm but do I care, no not really because at the end of the day I glad blizzard made it so that I will see all the content first hand enjoying it will my guild and not through some tiesto remix youtube video mess. I guess the real problem is that ones such as myself out number the hardcore now and well... money makes the world go round as they say, supply and demand and all that
    Edited by 1 at 18/12/08 @ 15:41
  • Krelle #13 3 years ago

    jstar,Vic

    But the thing is that you aint experiencing the same thing at all. You think you do, but thats only becouse you have no clue about what you miss out on.

    What makes killing a boss in previous Naxx fun, is not "wiping for several hours", but the fact that it is hard -enough- to make you work like a team that you have never done in wow in smaller parties. It makes you communicate, think and cheer eachoher on. The actual battle is just 50% of the experience. The other half is what you, the players, make of it.

    And you dont have to be a "skilled" player to raid, wtf? I suck myself, and ive played with people who are even worse than me, admittedly. You need to have a basic knowledge of your class and now what you should and should not do, but does that sound like such a bad thing to you?

    Have you "haters" even played wow? Have you ever played a 5man instance? Its the same as Naxx these days. You can just walz thru it casually, and its not really a thrilling experience, is it?

    You claim hat everyone should be able to access the same content as you all pay the same amount of money? Yes, that sounds lovely on paper, but when the product is of lesser quality everyone lose.

    Important EDIT:
    Making the raid enjoyable for 10 and 25 people instead of 40 is logical and I think its a very good move. Even thou I liked the way 40 man raids were, it could be a hassle to get 40 people online at the same time.
    But the size of the party has little to do with the experience of the encounter.
    If the encounter was still challenging enough to make a party of 10 friends concentrate, think, work together and just do their best I would have no complaints about this whatsoever.
    Edited by 2 at 18/12/08 @ 16:00
  • guernican #14 3 years ago

    Goodness.

    Back in the old days, we used to have to make our own fun. Footballs. Sticks. Human friends. It was simple, but it worked.
  • Krelle #15 3 years ago

    @guernican
    yes? go back to africa instead of posting irrelevant shit on forums then
  • mikeck #16 3 years ago

    ^ Play nice Krelle, that wasn't really called for was it?
  • spudsbuckley #17 3 years ago

    I've played WoW on and off now for about a year and i consider end games raid to be the territory of harcore-poopsockers.

    I only go up as far as heroic instances because i don't have the patience or the time to do a 3+ hour raid just to get one or two slighty better epics than the ones that come out of heroics.

    Basically make the end game easier and less time consuming and then i'll be interested.
  • kangarootoo #18 3 years ago

    "Who needs a guide when it's this easy already? It's really a shame, this was the instance we wiped on for months and months. It was so incredibly hard...

    And now? It's an insult to the original Naxxramas. "

    /raises eyebrow at misplaced sense of superiority.


    "go back to africa instead of posting irrelevant shit on forums then"

    Not called for, dickhead.
  • MrChucklesWorth #19 3 years ago

    "yes? go back to africa instead of posting irrelevant shit on forums then "

    SENSE OF HUMOUR FAILURE DETECTED
  • Krelle #20 3 years ago

  • Floppy #21 3 years ago

    Just don't admit you bought this on your CV, you'll never get that job.
  • David_W #22 3 years ago

    I have to say, somewhat in Canyarion's defense, that in many parts WotLK is way too easy, but that in a way already begun with the PvP gear welfare and so on.

    I got a free copy of WotLK from a friend and got back to WoW after I've been away for about a year and I find it now dumbed down to where almost all the challenge is removed.

    Questing is just running from point A to point B and kill/collect things without even breaking a sweat. Only done a few instances so far and they were basically all about tank and spank. No strategy needed at all, I'm only at level 73 at the moment though so I hope that changes.

    I'm not a hardcore player in any way and my gear, well I guess it's decent seeing as I've been away for a year, but there's nothing remarkable about it. A good thing is actually that they haven't "gone TBC" with the new loot so a lot of the old stuff is still viable.

    Anyway, I don't mind the casual approach but I need a bit of a challenge to keep my interest up and so far WotLK is not delivering.
  • Kanjin #23 3 years ago

    Really makes me want to re join WoW, damn it!
  • Mooks #24 3 years ago

    I think more accessible raiding is a good thing there will always be the few who like the exclusivity of the old raiding instances but it makes more sense for Blizzard to cater for the masses rather than the minority.
  • Canyarion #25 3 years ago

    I'm sorry I came off as elitist or superior wannabe.

    I'm glad that all the players now have a fair chance of seeing the end game. I really am, Blizzard put a lot of talent into that content (it's why they decided to re-release Naxx).
    But realistically I know that for many part of the fun is to get the best gear possible, to be 'elite', to be superior. I know I enjoyed it. I like to think I 'earned' it.

    Now with the new system, Blizzard makes both kinds of players happy!

    I just wish that they would make a bigger gap between 10-man and 25-man. And that's because I know how much fun it can bring to be a more serious raider, working with your guild mates to bring down tough bosses.

    Edit: Thanks jstar, apology accepted. :)
    Edited by 1 at 18/12/08 @ 21:53
  • MrChuckles #26 3 years ago

  • Wyrm #27 3 years ago

    'Questing is just running from point A to point B and kill/collect things without even breaking a sweat.'

    How is this different to questing in Vanilla WoW or TBC? It was and always has been a piece of piss, anyone can quest and that has always been the case.

    The 'end-game' we have now is not that challenging, but then go back to TBC, Kara was utterly rock hard at first, it was way, way too much of a roadblock. But then I still have yet to see all of the endgame content, my guild is only halways through Naxx 10 man. I think we can only judge difficulty of WOTLK until the real endgame stuff is in place.

    Like Blizz have said, when we're saying these things about Icecrown, thats when we should be worried.
  • David_W #28 3 years ago

    @ Wyrm

    Well at least in vanilla and TBC most group quests actually required a group. Also elites were something you were concerned with, especially if they were one or two levels above you.

    Also, now with all snares and escape moves, groups of mobs are no longer an issue. Just plow in to the midst of things, do your quest and get out in the same manner. To be fair, that would be hard to remedy as were not level 30's anymore, but it's still a factor.

    Personally I'm not that concerned about the end-game, because I usually don't end up seeing most of it anyway (early bosses in MC and most of Zul'Gurrub was as far as I came) and I'm perfectly fine with that.

    Why?

    Because I knew it wasn't (well, before WotLK anyway) aimed at me. It was so that the round the clock grinders would get some additional value out of the time they invested in WoW.

    But like Canyarion mentioned before, I'm glad they put in Naxx again, because I always wanted to see what I missed out last time around. One of the stupider things Blizz did was to make so much of their own content obsolete with TBC by scaling the gear like they did, so many nice instances that people never did see.

    On another note, I really don't get the obsession with making every instance easily accessible to everyone. As it was pre-WotLK, if you didn't dedicate enough hours to master the end-game content, you sure as hell had your hands full with the rest of the instances. Lack of content for us not living 24/7 in WoW wasn't really ever in issue. Or am I wrong?

    All I know is that from what I've seen so far, WoW has tilted even more towards being a social meeting place were you can run errands together than being a game that actually feels challenging. Some might like that, I don't.
  • kangarootoo #29 3 years ago

  • magicpanda #30 3 years ago

    Archavon is being done with pick up groups on both 10 and 25 man Heroic versions straight after a wintergrasp with no problem.

    The Obsidian Sanctum is also being done with pick up groups on our server as both normal and Heroic are very easy.

    Finally, Naxx is being done by pick up groups now so there's no real excuse for anyone to say they cant see all the content on offer it's all very easy to get into. I'd just rather do it with it with people I know and play with.
  • Svecke #31 3 years ago

    Good grief, this sounds like a chore. I wouldn't last five seconds. o_o .....when will we get solo instances, a la City of Heroes? :D
  • mkreku #32 3 years ago

    Uh.. I remember wiping my three man group of level 9:s on some mob called Hogger in Elwynn Forest. Think I could do Naxxramas?
  • mkreku #33 3 years ago

    Uh, I remember wiping my three man group of level nines on some mob called Hogger in Elwynn Forest. Think I could do Naxxramas?
  • Megapocalypse #34 3 years ago

    Hogger is epic. You'll need 2 full 40 man parties all above level 80 to attack him from both sides.
  • Ergates_Antius #35 3 years ago

    People seem to be failing to tell the difference between 'elite' and 'elitist'

    Being Elite, just means being very good - amongst the best. It's something to aspire to, and is generally a good thing (both being Elite and aspiring to it).

    Being Elitist is looking down on people - because you think you're better (at whatever) than they are, or percieve them to be 'casual' (and consider being 'casual' to be a bad thing), etc etc. It is generally a bad thing.
  • Pike #36 3 years ago

    Good grief, this sounds like a chore. I wouldn't last five seconds. o_o .....when will we get solo instances, a la City of Heroes? :D

    Well, there is this thing called single player games...
  • Svecke #37 3 years ago

    @Pike

    WoW is one of the most fun single-player games I know. :)
  • Nostrus #38 3 years ago

    Remember that this is entry level stuff. It's Blizzard trying to get the casual players, who didn't have time or the inclination, to raid in Burning Crusade raiding in Lich King. It started with heroic difficulty five mans and the ten man dungeons in LK. Now, they have the "big boy" raids but on an easier level.

    I would be surprised if Blizz don't ramp the difficulty up a bit for Lich King. They have made such a huge deal out of him all the way through Northrend that I can't see them making it too easy a fight.
  • hrothmund #39 3 years ago

    Well I think the 'casual' gamers here calling for effort free endgame miss the point. I'm a casual player myself. I don't log in every day, and when I do log in, I hardly ever play for more than three hours in a row. Yet, I have completed most of the 25-man content already, only Malygos still remains unconquered.

    The fact is, there is a clash here between the people who want a challenge and the people who just want to relax and accomplish something without needing to put much effort into the game.

    I think its wrong to brand people who raid 25-man instances successfully as 'hardcore'. I am quite certain that the people who just go into 10-man Naxx expecting free loot are the ones who raid for much longer than the so-called hardcore crowd. My guild clears Naxx 25 in around three or so hours. Then its a quick clear of Obsidian Sanctum and Vault of Archavon and onto Malygos attempts. All in all, I raid probably around eight hours a week. I know for a fact that a friend of mine who plays in a 'casual' guild raids around twice as much because they are more unorganized, less prepared and lack the attitude to concentrate on the encounters, which results in wiping and longer raiding times.

    I do not want to put more hours into the game, still I want more of a challenge from the endgame encounters.
  • Kami #40 3 years ago

    I think anyone who calls the 25-mans currently "hardcore" hasn't tried them - if anything, the 25 man encounters have proven to be easier than the 10-mans. If you want to be "hardcore" there are dozens of achievements to do, but right now since there is no point to doing achievements it's hardly worth the extra hassle, unless you have completely done all raiding currently and have gotten all the loot possible. Which a month in isn't likely for the majority of raiding groups.

    If anything, the problem with WotLK is a lot of the content is too easy. Icecroown has dozens of quests boasting to be 5-man, but myself (a rogue) and a shadow priest had no issues for the most part two-manning 90% of the 5-man quests. Death Knights can even solo them. Northrend feels shorter as a result.

    What Blizzard need to do, in my not-so-humble-opinion, is add some new content. There are still certain areas in Azeroth which can be turned into excellent lvl 80 spots. Modern Hyjal would be nice to see. Jeez, I wouldn't mind some new factions - the Pandarian more notably, would be an excellent and long-overdue neutral faction in Kalimdor. They could even add a new class or two (Pandarian have a couple excellent class concepts of old - drunken monk Brewmaster fighting? I'd pay for that!). New gear would also be welcomed, because the guuy who did the default Northrend gear obviously lost the will to live and just recoloured everythingg.

    The real killer with WotLK is by bringing it down a peg or two so everyone can enjoy it, it's quicker to get through it all. It is rather sad that a month in, a lot of people have blitzed most of the content. Hardly worth the expansion, but what's done is done. Blizzard need to hold the interest. Turn old raid places to heroics for the truly hardcore, add some new instances, give people loot that they can feel proud to show off, things to do, places to see. Blizzard just need to accept that new content will need to be added a lot more regularly than they originally intended, that quest chains need to be finished off... and that players are getting through the content a lot, lot faster than they thought people would.
  • Mooks #41 3 years ago

    Welfare and pvp epics have sucked the life out of the raiding experience and reward. You should raid to GET epics imo and not NEED them to even begin to raid. High quality blue items are perfectly viable for non-raiding people and often blue items are better thought out than epic equivalents. Blizzard have done a good thing by catering to the casual player but have created a lazy community that knows it only have to apply minimum effort for very reasonable rewards.
    Edited by 1 at 25/12/08 @ 02:38
  • Kami #42 3 years ago

    Thing is Mooks, I was leading raids into Black Temple when it was still locked from 90% of players. If we lost a member - real life happens and that's always a big thing to consider - you then have to struggle to get someone through the old content, Kael'thas and Vashj. And even if you did THAT without driving a perfectly stable raiding group crazy, there's no guarantee any loot would drop to get your new person ready for that content!

    This basically meant that big raid guilds got bigger, and smaller raid guilds got swallowed up to buffer the bigger teams, or merged into bigger raid guilds who swallow up more players. It's not what Blizzard wanted, so they opened up the content and added raid-specced "welfare" epics for people to get new people ready. It still took a while to kit them up - call them welfare epics but unless you raid every hour of every day you'd still take a few weeks to be tooled up totally in welfares. Talking a good thousand badges here.

    I have to say I had a very different opinion of "welfare" epics having been in leading position. I am not fond of how easy the raiding is, but Blizzard are as coy as ever saying that it's the first step on the ladder. Kitting new healers, new DPS or a promising tank however can still prove a challenge, and as such I still can't see the harm in welfare epics. After all, you can kit people out in the epics... the ones who know their job will fly with the gear, the ones who don't will stick out like a sore thumb.

    Rather than looking at the gear, we looked at people. And surprisingly, we found doing that made raiding that much more enjoyable! :) All Blizzard need to do is add content.

    And new helms, because the PvE helms look so awful I want to beat Blizzard over the head with my monitor...