US platform holders refuse Manhunt sequel

By GamesIndustry International Published 21 June, 2007

Won't allow AO-rated game.

Sony and Nintendo have confirmed that Manhunt 2 will not be appearing on consoles in the US following the ESRB's decision to give the game an Adults Only rating.

As reported by GameSpot, both platform holders have corporate policies which forbid the release of AO-rated games for their systems.

A Sony spokesperson has since confirmed to GamesIndustry.biz that Take-Two will not be allowed to publish Manhunt 2 for PSP or PS2.

Nintendo's official comment is as follows: "As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems."

In addition, major US retailers such as Wal-Mart have a policy of not selling AO-rated games.

Take-Two's only options now are to appeal the rating with the ESRB or to rework the game and resubmit it for a new rating. The publisher has yet to release a statement regarding the final decision.

Manhunt 2 was originally scheduled for a July 10 release. As reported earlier, it has been banned by ratings authorities in the UK and Ireland.

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Comments (123) Latest comment 5 years ago

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  • mad_caddy #1 5 years ago

    I don't understand this.
    Nintendo and Sony will have seen the game in dev, especially the master build. Did they think it wouldn't get an AO rating when in submission?

    Soon as the game got a rating they've washed their hands of it.

  • DDevil #2 5 years ago

    I guess Rockstar have had their hand forced. Either edit the game, or don't release it at all.

  • Skeletor #3 5 years ago

    Haha, so playback of porn DVDs on PS2 is ok but playback of AO-games is not?!
    That's a load bullshit, I say.
    Wouldn't have happened with the PC, the last truely free platform.

  • peteb #4 5 years ago

    I don't think Sony have much say over what DVD you put in your drive Skeletor. :D

  • lefizz #5 5 years ago

    And you are saying what exactlly? watching 2 people shag is appalling whilst strangling someone from behind using the wii remote is some thing that should be in the national curiculum?

  • menage #6 5 years ago

    How is AO diffrent from 18+??

  • JayeM #7 5 years ago

    Will Eurogamer still review the game?

    ...
    Edited by JayeM at 21/06/07 @ 09:11

  • login_name #8 5 years ago

    @Skeletor

    Why is it a load of bullshit?
    They can't control what DVDs you buy, it has nothing to do with them. They can, however, control the type of game content they will allow playable on their console.

    DVDs don't carry the PlayStation or Nintendo logo.

  • Moogrose #9 5 years ago

    Haha, so playback of porn DVDs on PS2 is ok but playback of AO-games is not?!

    Silly argument but this is so true, the psp also has pr0n on umd format - alot of it too, just browse the umd aisle at your local. they're just jumping on the bandwagon so far as i can see.

    hypocrites.

  • Skeletor #10 5 years ago

    @lefizz
    Both is classified as "Adults only" entertainment. That's what I say. There are some free European countries after all. Even in Germany the possession/ consumption of any videogame/movie banned due to its high level of violence is completely legal.

    @peteb
    It should be the same for games. It's not a Sony developed game after all. Rockstar made Sony a shitload of money with GTA.

  • login_name #11 5 years ago

    What a world we live in when watching sex (you know, the activity that creates life) is considered in the same league as interactive serial killers...

  • spliffhead #12 5 years ago

    GTA: San Andreas was A/O in the US and Sony allowed that on the ps2?
    Edited by spliffhead at 21/06/07 @ 09:22

  • Tiger_Walts #13 5 years ago

    For Sony it's blatantly a financial decision and not a moral one.

  • SBfistfun #14 5 years ago

    Reckon somebody's for the high jump for this mess!

  • Penguinzoot #15 5 years ago

    This is whole sorry debacle is beginning to look a major gaffe on Rockstars part (as opposed to seeking notoriety from sensationalist headlines).

    Presumably, unless they make huge changes to the game, they will be cut off from a huge percentage of their market.

    I'm pretty sure that getting banned in the UK, Ireland and an AO rating in the US is NOT what Rockstar had in mind when designing this game. Somewhere along the way there has apparently been a failure in Rockstars internal common sense radar.
    Edited by Penguinzoot at 21/06/07 @ 09:25

  • Grogmonkey #16 5 years ago

    @spliffhead

    It was originally rated 'M', but was later re-rated 'AO' after the 'Hot Coffee' thing. Rockstar then released a second version which was, again, rated 'M'.

    Also, this is standing policy for both Sony and Nintendo (and Microsoft, it seems). It's not a new thing that's just happened for Manhunt...

  • AcidSnake #17 5 years ago

    Well that sucks out loud!
    Really...

    If it was to be released 10th of July it would have to be in print already right?
    Those copies are now collectors items...

    I hope they find an alternative way...I don't want cuts to the game...
    When will it be rated for other european countries?

  • zuljin #18 5 years ago

    @AcidSnake
    It could still be in print, its just not coming out in the US...

    "Sony and Nintendo have confirmed that Manhunt 2 will not be appearing on consoles in the US"

    So I guess depending on other rating boards, it may still come out in Europe/Asia...

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #19 5 years ago

    I imagine the game is pretty horrible - not just sick and gory, but seriously unpleasant in several respects - although at the same time I don't like the idea of banning it, like in the UK, or refusing to publish it because it's AO (which I think is even worse than banning it outright). On the one hand, people should really be more careful of what they make (I think this applies to gorno movies too), but on the other I don't approve of censorship...

  • Meho #20 5 years ago

    Heh.... All this makes me even more interested in the game. I mean, it might be shite (although I liked the first one, despite its obvious flaws, it was an atmospheric, violent sneaker), but I am curious to see this bleak atmoshpere described in the news yesterday and this lack of other pleasures save for takng lives in gruesome way. Might be some kind of a milestone in the history of mainstream videogames...
    Edited by Meho at 21/06/07 @ 09:39

  • playgen #21 5 years ago

    You know I actually wouldnt be surprised if rockstar deliberatly developed this game to get banned, as an elaborate advert for GTA 4. All the fuss and hype over manhunt will create a massive buzz over what GTA IV will be like, and sell tons more copies.

  • peteb #22 5 years ago

    @Skeletor

    but as "login_name" said, DVDs don't carry the Nintendo or Sony logo. They take responsibility for games (since its a games console afterall) but not DVDs. Hell you could be watching your own "home made" porno DVDs on the console too, how can they stop that?

  • krudster #23 5 years ago

    We'll definitely review it, by hook or by crook!

  • AcidSnake #24 5 years ago

    @zuljin:
    But what is Sony and Nintendo's stance towards unrated games?

    What governing bodies does the rest of europe employ? PEGI?

  • peteb #25 5 years ago

    USK for Germany. So no chance there haha. They banned the first one too.

  • muftak #26 5 years ago

    "Both is classified as "Adults only" entertainment. That's what I say. There are some free European countries after all. Even in Germany the possession/ consumption of any videogame/movie banned due to its high level of violence is completely legal.
    "

    nothing has been banned just refused a age rating you can still own a copy just cant buy it from the place where the age rating wasnt given.

  • Avenger1324 #27 5 years ago

    All this will do is fuel interest in the game and make it sell more copies. ESRB's own study found exactly that happened with the first game - after shops started banning it more people tried to buy it to see what all the fuss was about.

    And what rating did they honestly expect the game to get?

  • AllMetal #28 5 years ago

    Hopefully, Rockstar will edit the game to some degree and try to get a UK 18 (I assume the game can be re-submitted) rating, while the US gets a M rating. Sadly though I don't think many places will get an uncut version.

  • Overlush #29 5 years ago

    Well that was a big, fat waste of time and money, wasn't it Rockstar!

  • JayeM #30 5 years ago

    That's good to hear krudster... You sicko! ;)
    Edited by JayeM at 21/06/07 @ 10:15

  • sickpuppysoftware #31 5 years ago

    How much money have Rockstar sunk into this project? Sure some countries may get it but it's not going to be many of the big markets.

  • AndyboyH #32 5 years ago

    Supposedly:
    "The ultra-violent videogame Manhunt 2 allows you to rape a woman shortly after you beheaded her in the brothel level called Honey Pot. Members of the ESRB were shocked when Daniel Lamb used his male reproduction organ and simulated a penetration in the bloody hole. Other gruesome parts include microwaving a living cat to death and being a witness of necrophilia in a cemetery in one of the later stage of the game."
    (no direct quote that I can find so could be bullshit - but it was posted on both Joystiq and Kotaku)

    "Consider for one moment that in Manhunt 2 you can, Wii remote and nunchuk in hands, use a pair of pliers to clamp onto an enemy's testicles and literally tear them from his body in a bloody display; and if that weren't enough, you'll take one of the poor victim's vertebrae along with his manhood. Or, if you'd prefer, you can use a saw blade and cut upward into a foe's groin and buttocks, motioning forward and backward with the Wii remote as you go. But believe it or not, there is much more to Manhunt 2 than mutilation and mayhem. This is a game that begins with the subject of psychosis."
    [link url=http://wii.ign.com/articles/792/792012p1.html
    ]http://wii.ign.com/articles/792/792012p1...[/link]

    How exactly did Rockstar ever imagine this game would survive the ratings process without an AO?

    Every publisher I've dealt with were very clear - AO means no publishing, because they can't get it into Wal*Mart in the US, and the platform owners don't want it.

  • zuljin #33 5 years ago

    @AcidSnake
    Not sure TBH... But its likely to get rated in other countries... Whether it passes is another matter... I actually expected Sony/Nintendo to judge a game on a single rating board tho... Hmmm.

    /Ponders

  • Moz #34 5 years ago

    Lets hope this doesn't bankrupt Take2 and Rockstar before they can release GTA4.

  • Meho #35 5 years ago

    The part about fucking a beheaded corpse (can't really classify as rape if the object of your desires is dead, no?) sounds like bullshit, I have to say. Rockstar always have their tongue firmly in cheek, even in the bleakest of moments. Manhunt was extremely violent and exploitative but it stuck to the general idea that whatever you did was a fight for survival.

  • mkreku #36 5 years ago

    Hmm. That's odd. Swedish newspapers reported yesterday that the game would be released untouched here in Sweden. Maybe they'll have to change it here too then?

  • bioreit #37 5 years ago

    @Meho

    'Dead girls can't say no.....?'

  • Skeletor #38 5 years ago

    @Acidsnake
    Exactly. Looks like there'll be at least a small EU print rated PEGI-18. This version will also make its way into the Usenet and Bittorrent of course.
    Imho, Rockstar should consider a PC version to circumvent bullshit "no-AO-titles" policies - "Unrated Director's Cut, the game the censors don't want you to play and banned in most countries". The Yanks did this with Wolfenstein 3D back in the days with a sticker on the box saying "Banned in Germany!" ;-)
    Btw, Manhunt 2 will be unofficially available in Germany (small videogame shops) because over here you have to be able to release the title first in order to get it banned!

  • peteb #39 5 years ago

    Rape is bad, but necrophilia is ok?

  • peteb #40 5 years ago

    Hmm i'm thinking you could buy up a few copies here then and off to ebay...

  • AcidSnake #41 5 years ago

    The PEGI website doesn't have it listed yet...
    But I'm not sure they have any real power...

    @AndyboyH:
    I really think that's made up...Would they really push those boundaries?
    Has there ever been a game where you rape someone? Not counting that Custer's revenge thing...

    I was looking forward to this...it sounded fun, having to escape from an asylum with any means necessary...But if those descriptions are correct I might've misread this game...

  • bioreit #42 5 years ago

    @AcidSnake

    The second set of descriptions are accurate, apparently.

    As for the first set, no idea. I doubt it, to be honest. I know R* likes to court controversy, but I don't think even they would go quite that far.

    Looking forward to the Eurogamer review - really want to see an opinion from you guys.

  • zuljin #43 5 years ago

    @mkreku
    Are you offering to sell me a copy?

    Why thank you!

  • dadrester #44 5 years ago

    battle raper 1,2,3 & 4... not to mention a slew of other hentai web games. would be good if daniel lamb was actually a bear... RAPEBEAR!

  • zuljin #45 5 years ago

    Interestingly enough:

    [link url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6225286.stm
    ]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/62...[/link]

    Theres also a poll on the site to say if you're in favour of the ban or not.

    (Currently ~60 against ~40 for )

  • AndyboyH #46 5 years ago

    @people

    I did issue this:
    "(no direct quote that I can find so could be bullshit - but it was posted on both Joystiq and Kotaku)"
    - it's not my quote, and you can take it with a similar pinch of salt like i did, but at the same time, is the verifyable ign quote about genital mutilation (ripping someone's nads off to kill them) really that much better?

    *shrugs* different strokes for different folks - I'm not at all interested in the game.

    I'm just glad the EG comments aren't like the 'freedom of speech' and 'zOMG censoring art' whiners at the two blogs I mentioned previously...

  • AcidSnake #47 5 years ago

    Ok...but hentai games are a specific category...with cartoony graphics right?

    I'll rephrase, has there ever been a game with realistic graphical rape being commited by the protagonist?

    @bioreit:
    Yeah, I remember reading that, but I just thought it was creative journalism actually...

    EDIT:
    @zuljin:
    I LOL'd at the caption beneath the first screenshot...
    Edited by AcidSnake at 21/06/07 @ 10:21

  • Skeletor #48 5 years ago

    PEGI doesn't reject ratings as long as the product doesn't infringe EU law which is not the case here.
    IF Nintendo and Sony decide (more like have decided...) that an EU uncut version is OK, then Manhunt 2 will be available for a (very) short time in Germany and officially in EU-countries like Sweden, France, Spain, Poland etc.

  • bioreit #49 5 years ago

    @Andyboyh

    Sorry if it seemed like I was disbelieveing you - that was not my intention. Just saying, like you, that it may not be 100% accurate.

    I'm going to hold off now until the Eurogamer review - they can fill us in on what is really in the game and whether the BBFC ruling had any merit.

  • AcidSnake #50 5 years ago

    @skeletor:
    I hope so...

    I remember the (I think only) banning thing for videogames here in Italy...
    Very weird, for Rule Of Rose...The ban was called for by the mayor of Rome and the game was not released in europe after that...Except stupidly enough for Italy...It's still in shops now...

    But will Rockstar go through the whole localisation thing if they have to make other versions of the game? If they choose to edit the game...I'd like a nice english uncut game please...

  • peteb #51 5 years ago

    watched the video on

    [link url=http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?tab=av&q=manhunt%202&recipe=all&scope=all&edition=i
    ]http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/r...[/link]

    and the woman on the show with Gavin Ogden said that there was a study that proved theres a connection between playing a violent game and going out and stabbing somebody...

    when was this done then?

  • Freek #52 5 years ago

    I diden't care about MH2, but now I really want to check this out. If only out of curiosoty to see just how bad it actually gets.

  • AndyboyH #53 5 years ago

    @bioreit

    no worries - I wasn't offended or anything, just making it clear that I had actually tried looking for a source.

    From my position - since every other game rated AO seemingly has been due to the inclusion of sex, it does lend some possibility to the quote. (God knows why Americans can stand graphic violence, but can't deal with sex, but that's a discussion for another day) see: [link url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AO-rated_products
    ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AO-...[/link]

    In the end, if EG get to review it as it currently is, I guess we'll know what the furore is over - if not, it'll quietly be cut, and I suspect only a few people will be wise to what's missing. I certainly think Rockstar are going to end up censoring it - there's no business case to even attempt releasing it with the crippling restrictions currently placed on it.

  • FortysixterUK #54 5 years ago

    It's just a case of Sony etc covering their backs, they want to avoid the agro of yet more lawsuits ( for whatever reason, remember Manhunt 1, GTAs coffee thing, the force feedback thing). So they are stopping the potential for lawsuits dead before they can even start.

    I am totally against censorship in any form, you only need 3 elements to protect those that should be protected:-

    1) an age rating ,
    2) responsible retailers not selling to those under age,and
    3) responsible parenting

    ....should be enough in my opinion.

    That would even cover online companies as you have to be over 18 to use a credit card, and therefore if you are buying the game for someone, it's down to your responsible parenting to protect the young from things they shouldn't see.

    One good thing, I would imagine rockstar will now do a PC version called :-
    MANHUNT 2-UNCUT-UNCENSORED and it will sell like hotcakes.

    Thank god for PC gaming....a politics free platform with no censorship, truly open source !


  • zuljin #55 5 years ago

    @peteb
    Theres been plenty of studies that demonstrate video games violence makes a person more prone to commit acts of violence. The dubiousness (from my point of view) is how they define "more prone to commit acts of violence".

    One test I remember was a small sample of people played violent games, and one happy games, then they were able to shock (not actually) a person in another room. The violent video game people tended to shock more often and more extremely.

    I personally don't think that automatically demonstrates they are more likely to put an axe in someones head tho. Personally I'd also have been interested in them repeating the same experiment with a sample swimming for an hour beforehand, and another sample playing rugby for an hour.

  • peteb #56 5 years ago

    yea, i was aware there were tests that proved a certain higher amount of aggression, but from what i read they said it would be nothing over and above normal levels of aggression, i.e. not enough to go on a rampage. the way the woman in the video put it, it was proved that they were responsible for killings, which is bullocks.

    good point with the swimming and rugby.

  • zozart #57 5 years ago

    I don't understand this at all. Both consoles play 18 rated games in the UK. Why won't they play "AO" (18) games in the US?

  • jonnyreb #58 5 years ago

    I am the last person to ever agree with censorship in video games, but there has to be a limit.

    Without having played the game, all I can do is speculate....but if the descriptions listed in the various articles are true then perhaps they have pushed the 'thin red line' too far with this one.

    Just a side comment:-

    it's quite amazing really how your opinion changes regarding this kind of stuff when your kids get old enough to start playing video games -- I mean as an adult I'm hopefully past the age when these things bother me, but when your 10 year old comes home from his mates house and tells you how they have been enjoying a session on The Suffering you suddenly start seeing a glimmer of clarity in alot of these censorship discussions.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #59 5 years ago

    "[From IGN] Consider for one moment that in Manhunt 2 you can, Wii remote and nunchuk in hands, use a pair of pliers to clamp onto an enemy's testicles and literally tear them from his body in a bloody display; and if that weren't enough, you'll take one of the poor victim's vertebrae along with his manhood"

    I'd imagine a graphic depiction of that would get even a film banned (or at least that section cut). Having the user actively participate in it, and worse, physically act it out is exponetially more fucked up. Sexual violence is definitely taboo in viodeo games, and rightly so, I believe. Deliberately setting up sexually violent situations, when there was so much controversy about the likes of, shooting prostitutes you've just slept with in GTA was just plain stupid.

    If you're desperate to be allowed the freedom to do that sort of thing, I fear for you.

  • peteb #60 5 years ago

    @jonnyreb

    i'd be having words with his mates parents to be honest (although i'd hate to have to one of "those" parents, who go round to other parents and complain to them)

    censorship is no substitute for responsible parenting, but i see your point!
    Edited by peteb at 21/06/07 @ 10:54

  • el_pollo_diablo #61 5 years ago

    Unlike plenty of other people posting here, I actually feel very sorry for Rockstar.

    All that time and hard work wasted because the world's babysitters feel we're not able to judge the difference between what's real and what isn't.

    What suprises me is that the BBFC, who since James Ferman left have made generally very intelligent censorship decisions (ie. leave it alone), recently released a report dispelling many of the 'murder simulator' myths.

    What a shame.

  • dcangel #62 5 years ago

    Well, to coin a phrase, "Whoops!". The question now is whether Rockstar will choose to edit the game in order to secure a release, or just abandon it.

    jonnyreb: +1 for a very pertinent comment.
    Edited by dcangel at 21/06/07 @ 10:51

  • Grogmonkey #63 5 years ago

    The more I think about the issue, the more I tend to go with the 'Rockstar did this on purpose' idea. I just think they've pushed the 'excessively violent videogame' thing too often to not know where the lines are drawn.

    Either they keep pushing and pushing to see what they can get away with, or they added some pretty sick stuff knowing full well what would happen. And, hell, if it gets banned they spark a heated discussion about the game and the relative merits of censorship and get a heapload of free advertising. I mean, Take Two are in pretty dire straits at the moment. Can they really afford to advertise a second tier game (Manhunt can hardly be considered as in the same calibre as something like GTA)? If only there was a way to get everyone talking about the game (and get a guaranteed boost in sales) a couple of months before release, without spending any money...

    It's a cynical and conspiratorial take on the issue, sure, but it doesn't seem that fanciful, either.

  • zuljin #64 5 years ago

    @Grogmonkey
    I disagree, and I think this is an "Hanlon's razor" scenario again.

    Sure they knew it was pretty controversial, but I reckon working on it for a while more than likely got them to a point where it seemed so much less brutal than someone who casts fresh eyes upon it.

  • Skeletor #65 5 years ago

    "One good thing, I would imagine rockstar will now do a PC version called :-
    MANHUNT 2-UNCUT-UNCENSORED and it will sell like hotcakes."

    It could even be called the HD version because of the high resolutions PCs can run this game at! Postal 2 sold very good in Russia (in spite of all the pirated copies...), maybe this would be the perfect territory for a game like MH2.
    I would buy an uncut PC version.

  • peteb #66 5 years ago

    heres an interesting article on games violence and its effects on kids:

    [link url=http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/violence_and_videogames
    ]http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/v...[/link]

  • lennon #67 5 years ago

    Something I have been considering is how games effect me and whether playing violent games has an effect and to be honest I cant really remember being overly affected by a game.

    There are however movie experiences that thinking about them make me feel quite disturbed.

    Also what about the effect of playing driving games? Does it make us go out and drive more agressively and therefore more prone to accidents?

    The worst game for affecting my mood is definatly Football Manager. Ever since its first incarnation (I was 8 i think) I remember having massive mood swings dependant on how frustrated I was playing it.

    Should really play it as a team I hate I suppose that way I wouldnt care as much!

  • Penguinzoot #68 5 years ago

    @zuljin - yeah, I tend to agree with Hanlons razor on this one.

    The thing I find amazing is that there was apparently no-one in Rockstar capable of realizing how this was all going to end.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #69 5 years ago

    'murder simulator' myths

    The problem with Manhunt and (from what I've read) its sequel is that, unlike GTA and its clones, they actually are murder simulators. The argument that violent, adult video games are much more than that falls down a bit in the Manhunt series case.

    If they've removed the plot device that stipulates that you must perform these acts in order to escape from a blackmailing maniac, then it's even worse, since it's not even a 'murder under duress' simulator.

  • afghan_jones #70 5 years ago

    I find it works the other way round for me really. My mood dictate the games I play rather than games dictating my mood.

    If I was in a bleak and negative mood, I would play Manhunt1, if I was in an agressive mood, maybe burnout or something like Black. Happy carefree moods would be Katamari or Loco Roco. Competetive, a bit of online Gears.

    I guess my point is that I generally play games that reflect my current mood and while they may make me more inclined to be aggressive/competitive/whatever, my mood and attitude was in place before I even picked up a pad.

  • peteb #71 5 years ago

    i think the BBFC did us a favour with this, imagine the uproar if it had have been released. it would have set back the "gamers aren't violence loving sickos" argument years imo.

  • Christian_Otte #72 5 years ago

    Why is it that Rockstar just can't release the game without a rating? You see plenty of "Unrated" DVDs everywhere of big comedies like Wedding Crashers, why can't it be same for videogames?

  • Grogmonkey #73 5 years ago

    @Zuljin

    Yeah, that could very well be the case. Hadn't considered that, if I'm honest. But wouldn't that hold true for the developers only? I know when working on a videogame, it's very hard to be objective about the content. But an outside source (the publisher, for instance, or other sectors of the company) would still come at it with a pretty fresh eye. From my experience, there have been some things in a game I worked on that I considered pretty... not mundane, but pretty 'average', but were seen by other people in the company (the publishing arm in America, for instance) as pretty amazing. Having worked on it, yes I was used to seeing it, and its impact lessened, but that wouldn't hold true for everyone in the company.

    I would argue someone, somewhere along the approval line, would have been able to say 'hang on, folks, I think we just went too far'.

    But you know, I could really easily be swayed by this 'they really are that naive' argument.

  • zuljin #74 5 years ago

    Advice to all the people who are against the ban:

    - Take the missus out on a trip to Belgium to see the lovely city of Brugge (ahem).
    - Buy Manhunt 2
    ( http://www.nieuwsblad.be/Article/Detail.... )

    All sorted :)

  • zuljin #75 5 years ago

    @Grogmonkey
    True. I think if this was all innocent, the moral of the story would be: Next time consult a few rating boards throughout development.

  • lennon #76 5 years ago

    What if you are against the ban but dont actually want the game?

    Seems expensive to me :)

    @Zulkin - Couldnt agree more. Seems absolutley crazy that you wouldnt consult the people that make these decisions if you even thought the subject might be this contraversial.
    Edited by lennon at 21/06/07 @ 11:26

  • AcidSnake #77 5 years ago

    @zuljin:
    The article says that it will receive the highest possible classification...So that means it is rated for the rest of europe?

    The only thing the belgians can't do is prohibit the sale to minors...Strange this...

    Also the so called expert has data of risk groups? i thought it had never been confirmed that videogames had adverse impact?

    Well, now it's just a matter of seeing what other countries do...

  • bioreit #78 5 years ago

    Just realised something.

    Jack 'Mothnops' Thompson must be frothing at the mouth over all this - I understand he is not allowed to say anything about Take Two or any of its subsidiaries, employees or products without prior discussion and approval from T2's lawyers.

    BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  • bioreit #79 5 years ago

    @AcidSnake

    "Also the so called expert has data of risk groups? i thought it had never been confirmed that videogames had adverse impact?"

    Only in as much as they would be 'at risk' from any other form of media. I mean, one guy snapped and committed suicide because people were opening up those little paper tubes of sugar 'the wrong way' - apparently you shouldn't rip them in half, but 'snap' them open.

  • peteb #80 5 years ago

    @bioreit

    he must be ready to burst if hes not allowed to mention anything about this haha

  • lennon #81 5 years ago

    Maybe the whole point of Manhunt 2 is to push him to breaking point

  • bioreit #82 5 years ago

    @lennon

    Damn. Never thought of that. In that case - go ROckstar

  • AcidSnake #83 5 years ago

    Bij de risicogroep die helemaal in het spel opgaat, leiden agressieve spelletjes tot een tolerantere houding tegenover geweld

    It's written to imply it is based on facts...Which I thought didn't exist...
    But that sugar example shows that just about anything can trigger violence...

    And for the record, no, snapping is 'the wrong way'...

  • zuljin #84 5 years ago

    @AcidSnake
    Well the UK has banned it, and Ireland too. I'm not really sure whether other countries will follow suit on this TBH.

    I actually read the article I posted now (shame on me - I only read it will be sold in Belgium), and it is very odd there is no age rating thing for computer games. Slightly dark-ages-esque.

  • rhinoxious #85 5 years ago

    @Lennon

    ROFL

    I bet a classic penny arcade strip is in the making right now!

  • lennon #86 5 years ago

    Can I claim IP on it? :)

  • AcidSnake #87 5 years ago

    @ulov3:
    Source?
    Ah come on...

  • peteb #88 5 years ago

    @ulov3

    definately! especially since its giving the rest of the industry a bad name now.

  • AcidSnake #89 5 years ago

    <a href="http://www.repubblica.it/2005/i/sezioni/scienza_e_tecnologia/videogiochi/manhunt-italia/manhunt-italia.html">
    Found it</a>

    E Gentiloni, appena appresa la notizia
    Shouldn't he have checked it first? Rather than acting on hearsay?

  • login_name #90 5 years ago

    "I am totally against censorship in any form, you only need 3 elements to protect those that should be protected:-

    1) an age rating ,
    2) responsible retailers not selling to those under age,and
    3) responsible parenting

    ....should be enough in my opinion."

    Although I agree with this in theory, we all know that 2 and 3 aren't always enforced and therefore leaves only 1 element to protect those that should be protected. So unfortunately, in rare cases, it's not enough.

  • RazorObsession #91 5 years ago

    i absolutely loved the first game, tickled just the right spot in my brain.

    perhaps rockstar should cut a deal with microsoft and digitally distribute it level by level on xbox live?

    theres got to be a few more loopholes.

  • Skeletor #92 5 years ago

    "...it is very odd there is no age rating thing for computer games. Slightly dark-ages-esque."

    There are no mandatory filmratings in many EU countries (DVD market in France or Poland for example). The definition of "artistic freedom" in media like film or games differs pretty much across Europe.
    Edited by Skeletor at 21/06/07 @ 12:27

  • WalterMatthau #93 5 years ago

    Hats off to Rockstar/Take 2 - they certainly know how to get free publicity for their games. After all, what better way to drum up potential sales than to court controversy? It worked for Virgin Games back in the 90's and it's certainly working for Take 2 now.

    What better way to unite gamers and gain their support for your game than the threat of censorship?


    Ok, this may be speculation on my part, but I'm guessing that the marketing strategy for Manhunt 2 is something like this:

    1) Submit a no-holds barred version of the game for classification...knowing full well that it will be refused release.
    2) Sit back and enjoy the controversy this causes (and the countless columns of free press).
    3) Once public interest has reached fever pitch re-submit a toned-down version of the game for classification (a la the zombie version of Carmageddon).
    5) Classification granted!
    6) Rub hands with glee as the product flies off the shelves.
    5) Order new luxury yacht for CEO of Take 2

  • AcidSnake #94 5 years ago

    Anyone here from Belgium?
    If the review is up to scratch I'll be needing this...

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #95 5 years ago

    There's no point to free publicity if there's no market to sell your product in.

    It's hardly likely that as many people will send off for mail order from Belgium as would have popped into Game or Tesco to lift one off the shelf.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #96 5 years ago

    I'm betting that if it's too sick for the BBFC, then it'll be so sick that Eurogamer mark it down for gratuitous unpleasantness.

    6, tops.

  • chupachups #97 5 years ago

    "I'm pretty sure that getting banned in the UK, Ireland and an AO rating in the US is NOT what Rockstar had in mind when designing this game. Somewhere along the way there has apparently been a failure in Rockstars internal common sense radar."

    Many Rockstar apologists claim that they're in it for the artistic achievement, not the profits.

    That's a load of bollocks of course, and now we'll get the chance to see just how interested they are in artistic integrity as opposed to actually making some money.

  • SomaticSense #98 5 years ago

    "Baaannned in the USAAAAAA
    Baaannned in the USA-oh-oh"

    For some reason that just popped in to my head, and will doubtless be there for the rest of the day now.... :(

  • SomaticSense #99 5 years ago

    Just thought, wouldn't people over here just be able to import another PAL version from another European country where is hasn't been banned (that's assuming if it won't be...)?

  • kangarootoo #100 5 years ago

    "Many Rockstar apologists claim that they're in it for the artistic achievement, not the profits."

    No company is "in it for the art, not the profits". No company that stays in business anyway. Rockstart certainly aren't just in it for the art, and neither should they be.


    As for banking on this result for publicity, I think than Hanlon's Razor applies here as it did in an earlier thread (thanks zuljin for the linky).

    [link url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
    ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_...[/link]

    I don't think Rockstar banked on this happening at all. I think they will be viewing it for what it is, a potentially very expensive and unexpected fuckup.

    They are at a point now where there is a real risk they will not be able to sell their game in either the UK or the US. That is a HUGE problem and will cost them a shedload of cash if it remains the case. Publicity or no, a few ebay sales isn't going to turn this around the way some deluded soulds seem to suggest.

    The old adage of there being "no such thing as bad publicity" has always been total bollox (entertained as fact because it sounds nice and snappy), and it remains so today.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #101 5 years ago

    The old adage of there being "no such thing as bad publicity" has always been total bollox

    But this game hasn't been banned because of its publicity, it's been banned because it's (according to various world certification bodies) made in very poor taste.

  • Bassassin #102 5 years ago

    A lot of people seem to imagine that Rockstar will cut this game, re-submit it & get a certificate. Ain't going to happen. The BBFC said this:

    "Where possible we try to consider cuts or, in the case of games, modifications which remove the material which contravenes the Board's published Guidelines. In the case of Manhunt 2 this has not been possible."

    The BBFC rates everything in context (which is why scenes of hardcore, brutal rape get passed in arthouse movies such as Baise Moi) and unlike movies, a videogame will always be marketed as populist entertainment.

    It's somewhat elitist, but the BBFC views material aimed at the base demographic very differently to that which it assumes will be consumed by the cultured intelligentsia.

    As far as the suggestion that the game contains interactive necrophile rape is concerned - I think the BBFC might well have mentioned this too, were it the case.

    Jon.

  • Kami #103 5 years ago

    "1) an age rating ,
    2) responsible retailers not selling to those under age,and
    3) responsible parenting"

    1) Hear hear.
    2) A lot of retailers don't care as long as they get the cash.
    3) HAH! You're having a laugh...

  • space_ace #104 5 years ago

    well just look at it, what did you expect?

    [link url=http://www.rockstargames.com/manhunt2/screens/
    ]http://www.rockstargames.com/manhunt2/sc...[/link]

  • peteb #105 5 years ago

    i knew jack couldn't hold it in...

    [link url=http://kotaku.com/gaming/endorsement/jack-thompson-says-esrb-ratings-work-270943.php
    ]http://kotaku.com/gaming/endorsement/jac...[/link]

    won't this get him into trouble for mentioning Take Two and all that jazz?

    Also, his condescending attitude towards us is sickening.

    "Attorney, and you're not"

    I'd rather be good at what meaningless job I do than be shit attorney any day.
    Edited by peteb at 21/06/07 @ 16:14

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #106 5 years ago

    Bizarrely he sounds exactly like an overly-hormonal, angry teenage internet forum zealot in that message.

  • bioreit #107 5 years ago

    Sorry, in my haste (no doubt brought on by the glee of Jack getting into trouble) I misread the article about Jack. He cannot talk to (read: pester) any employee of T2 or subsidiaries, or anyone T2 works with (including retailers).

    Talking about the games is fine.

    Damnit.

    But yes, he does sound like a little child.

  • kangarootoo #108 5 years ago

    @Mentalist(air)

    Um, I never suggested the game banned because of its publicity.

    Some people are suggesting that this banning is somehow good publicity for R*, and a few are even suggesting their were wanted the ban, which is clearly nonsense. That is what I mean.

  • kangarootoo #109 5 years ago

    JT is mentally ill, simple as that. He needs help. This has nothing to do with MH2, or video games at large.

  • anver #110 5 years ago

    Back when Manhunt was new, I read a lengthy article that assumed that it was actually out to comment on how we perceive violence nowadays, the voyeurism of reality tv and several other topics. I didn't really play it enough to decide either way, though.

    I can imagine Rockstar doing this with Manhunt 2 as well, something along the lines of "No matter how sick and depraved the content of your game is, some people will buy it and parents will still buy it for their kids" or an exploration of how sadistic everyday people can be (yes, it is a game, but especially the Wii version blurs the lines somewhat).

    Don't get me wrong, it's just as possible that it's nothing but the most vile content they could come up with, to push the boundaries for the sake of pushing the boundaries.

  • WalterMatthau #111 5 years ago

    Kieron Gillen has put up the following link on his website. It takes you to a very interesting comment made by a former developer:

    [link url=http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=161536&view=findpost&p=4135691
    ]http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?s=&...[/link]

    Have to say that I pretty much agree with what he says. Bad Rockstar! Bad!

  • neuroniky #112 5 years ago

    Well, nobody said this so...

    ... BAN THIS SICK FILTH!

    Seriously, this time.

  • urban #113 5 years ago

    this is simply absurd, just means everybodies got to break the law to get it back here.

  • Sl1pstream #114 5 years ago

    Anyone here from Belgium?

    Yeah. I'll be avoiding this myself though. I'm not that interested in Rockstar's "How to push the limits of violence in games"-project.

  • AOFanboi #115 5 years ago

    <em>just find very unnecessary to produce a game like that.</em>

    Yeah, companies whould only produce games that are necessary. Oh, wait, games are inherently not necessary, goodbye video game market.

  • Les #116 5 years ago

    "The old adage of there being "no such thing as bad publicity" has always been total bollox (entertained as fact because it sounds nice and snappy), and it remains so today."

    It sure is not universally true, but there's certainly plenty of instances where 'bad' publicity has been beneficent for the party involved. Heard sales of RFOM have gone up during the last week...

  • zuljin #117 5 years ago

    "But maybe when you finish high school you will solve your dyslesia problems"

    Irony alolert...

    /Runs

  • Daikon #118 5 years ago

    Apparently the ruling Christian-Socialist coalition in The Netherlands is looking into banning the game also.
    This is the same country where gay marriage, physician assisted suicide, prostitution and drugs are legal and murders of politicians by muslims are common.
    Go figure.

  • kangarootoo #119 5 years ago

    @Les

    But surely the statement "no such thing" is absolute. If there is even one single case of "bad publicity" then the original statement is untrue.

    /is pedant.

  • kangarootoo #120 5 years ago

    @urban

    So let me understand this correctly. You are saying that if something is deemed to be illegal, that is absurd because people then have to break the law in order to obtain it?

    Does that mean that the law that says I can't walk into a bank and take money that isn't mine is absurd, because I now have to break the law in order to take the money?

    Hmmmm.

  • bioreit #121 5 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    I feel so sorry for you. 'Salmon swimming upstream' springs to mind whenever I read your posts :-(

  • kangarootoo #122 5 years ago

    @bioreit

    I like the exercise :)

    Edit: Does that mean all the "girl salmon" will shag me when I get there? And then I'll die?
    Edited by kangarootoo at 22/06/07 @ 13:12

  • bioreit #123 5 years ago

    Yes, but you will be taken up by the mythical Saint John West and live a second life in the magical world of Waitrose, reincarnated, as all good salmon are, into gravad lax.

    But seriously, well done for keeping a level-headed approach - it's far more than I can achieve.