THQ: "Warcraft has peaked"

By Johnny Minkley Published 8 April, 2008

Warhammer MMO can "co-exist".

There's fighting talk today from THQ executive Jack Sorenson, who has told Eurogamer that he reckons Blizzard's all-conquering World of Warcraft has "peaked".

Speaking to us at last week's Gamers Day bash in San Francisco, THQ's head of development was bullish about the prospects of the forthcoming Warhammer 40,000 MMO - the firm's first foray into the genre dominated by Blizzard's title, which currently has over 10 million subscribers.

Sorenson commented: "However long it takes World of Warcraft to go through its cycle there will always be people on it, probably always be millions of people on it, but does it keep at that peak? And I think that, I wish I could see the numbers, but my guess is that it probably already has peaked - but it's still a great business. Who wouldn't want that?"

Following on from CEO Brian Farrell's revelation that the game is still "probably a couple of years out", Sorenson added: "We haven't announced a release date, but it's certainly not imminent and we plan on doing a very high quality job.

"That's certainly one thing that World of Warcraft's proved: not only do you have to do it well, it has to be great from day one. There's not a tolerance like there used to be, when Ultima came out... All those games were buggy and horrible, and eventually got there. You can't do that anymore, which has lengthened the cycle for good-quality MMOs."

Farrell told investors in 2006 that it would be "misguided" to compete with Warcraft at that time, adding: "The idea would be to time something for when that product is going to be on its downward slope." Which he now presumably thinks will be in a couple of years.

The Warhammer 40,000 MMO was announced in March '07, and Sorenson believes the popular fantasy licence will be key to the product's success.

"Blizzard based a lot of their, let's say, RPG characteristics on 40k, which was the original," he continued. "There's a lot of commonality there that just comes right out of what Games Workshop has developed - the fiction, and the rest of it is incredibly deep. I think if we're true to that and do it at a high quality, then people will come. And they can certainly co-exist."

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About Johnny Minkley

Eurogamer TV's Johnny Minkley is a veteran journalist with a lifelong passion for games and the games industry. He uses Twitter more than most people use air.

Read more articles from Johnny by visiting the Johnny Minkley archive page.

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Comments (27) Latest comment 3 years ago

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  • Rizo #1 4 years ago

    whatever warcraft will dominate for a long long time to come or until warcraft 2 comes out.

  • Stardusty #2 4 years ago

    But the 40K license appeals to another subset of player... unless Blizzard ever replaces WoW with WoStarcraft....

  • Darkjinxter #3 4 years ago

    Blizzard has nothing to fear from anyone. Peaked? Hardly, in the coming age of reboots if Blizzard go the route of EVE, Ultima and Anarchy Online and produce DX10 supergraphics overlaying their existing database of stats, weapons and locations then WoW will not only retain its userbase, but retake those it has lost to the more flashy MMOs such as LotRo.
    Order will be restored.

    I myself quit WoW around a year ago when Oblivion appeared on the PC. Since then I have nearly every MMO on the market. Next up for me is Spellborn and Age of Conan, WAR looks to much like WoW to compete in my eyes.
    Edited by 2 at 08/04/08 @ 13:07

  • TheDudesRug #4 4 years ago

    But as there is no DX10 overhaul announced, you could just as legitimitely suggest that it has peaked.

  • UncleLou #5 4 years ago

    *sigh*

    What's with all the uninformed THQ hate? It's getting a bit silly, really. I blame clueless console-only gamers.

  • Moz #6 4 years ago

    Surely more importantly Warhammer age of reconing is out this year so alot of the GW crowd will be invested in that.

  • Darkjinxter #7 4 years ago

    The dudesrug is right of course, there is no DX10 overhaul announced by Blizzard. Pure conjecture on my part. So, lets assume THQ's Jack Sorenson is right and WoW has indeed peaked, therefore the door is open for WAR to sweep up a userbase from those who like Warhammer and others (like me) who have left WoW, I hope there's a lot of them around for his, and THQ's sake, indeed for the future of MMOs in general for I feel IF Blizzard popped up with a DX10 wrapper people like me would return in droves to view the splendour of Silverpine Forest in the bloom and shadow......
    Edited by 1 at 08/04/08 @ 13:23

  • 4thVariety #8 4 years ago

    As soon as people quit WoW, they will not head into the next clone. They will rather be healed from a compulsion. All the pep talk is not going to help the game due to a simple rule: If people can be suckered into games such as wow then they will play WoW. Nothing else will suffice. Exploiting peoples determination to show they are the greatest and have them grind a game to prove it works for one game exactly: the biggest! Because it's no use being the best guy in the no.2 sport.

    Proof? Guess which sport Dirk Nowitzky is playing in German advertisement campaigns these days? Hint: NOT Basketball.

    I bet Warhammer will have lots of people who buy, play, leave. They won't pay for a year and stay just for the grind.

  • Bumhug360 #9 4 years ago

    [link url=http://www.mmog chart.com/Chart11.html
    ]http://www.mmog chart.com/Chart11.html
    [/link]

    Doesnt really look like its peaked yet

  • George-Roper #10 4 years ago

    @Northy

    So I assume you don't count Relic (of Dawn of War, Homeworld and Company of Heroes fame) as a 'quality' development team?

    I agree that THQ are largely just another Atari but a least they do have some great development going on.
    Edited by 1 at 08/04/08 @ 13:42

  • anomagnus #11 4 years ago

    I think there's some confusion over what he means by peaked.

    He doesn't mean the game is dead. He means its unlikely to increase its gamer base by SIGNIFICANT amounts any time soon.

    3 years on, if anyone hasn't played the game by now, the chances are they are not interested in it. Where the hell are you expected another ten million players from?

    It doesn't mean he's saying the game is dead. For fucks sake, get a dictionary.

    As for blizzard themselves, the game has hit its steady point. The heady days are gone, its the most bland MMORPG out there, its shallow, and its developers are totally, utterly creatively bankrupt. Without being able to rip of GW, they've got fuck all to fall on. The sunwell is a prime example. Christ what a mess.

    They've set the standard with the game, but its run its course as anything other than a vanilla gateway to MMORPGs

  • wyli #12 4 years ago

    @Bumhug360

    Well, yeah, it kinda does. That best fit curve does seem to be pretty near its top.

  • TheDudesRug #13 4 years ago

    Darkjinxter, I certainly hope it is never announced. Because, like you, I would get sucked back in to a lifestyle that has no place here. What's the saying, 'Not on my watch!'. The same centiment goes for AOC, WAR, all of them. I hope they're flops. I hope they're all diabolical. I don't want any of that temptation and social corruption ever again.

    Who am I kidding, of course I do. I'll just have to hide, that's all.

  • Bumhug360 #14 4 years ago

    "Well, yeah, it kinda does. That best fit curve does seem to be pretty near its top. "

    Well of course the curve is going to suggest that as it starts when the game is released and ends when the graph was done (feb). Every time its updated it looks like its peaked, its a misleading curve

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #15 4 years ago

    Any MMO really can work along side WoW as imo a huge number of WoW players aren't exactally MMORPG fans, they're ethier playing it as their friends are or it's 'cool' to play it, and considering WoW pulls off more of an action game then a true RPG, if anything that playerbase may perfer AoC to Warhammer's offerings.

    Either way most of the actally MMORPG playerbase are either in EVE, EQ2, DDO, CoX, LOTRO or just handing about waiting on one of the other 6 expected out this year, and conpanies like Mythic and Funcom aren't trying to 'cash in' on WoW's playerbase, thier just making a quality game.

    Yes what THQ states is a half truth WotLK will either keep it's current playerbase or lose some of it, unless the original game becomes free to download it's too costly for a new player 'to keep up'. At this point if your not playing WoW your not likly to from the start, and other MMOs will grather up the excess players either leaving WoW or just want an alturtive, and because of the amount of games vs the number of players out there it's highly unlikly that anything will gather the amount WoW has.

  • M83J01P97 #16 4 years ago

    @Moz

    I imagine the GW croud are more interested in GW2, which is calmly sitting in the shadows of the MMO battle not kicking up much of a fuss at all. I can see that coming out of nowhere later this year and blasting everything else away.

  • Wyrm #17 4 years ago

    Yeah, WoW has peaked, players have lost interest, Wrath of the Lich King is gonna be clogging bargain bins wound the world.

    Silly boy.

  • dudefella #18 4 years ago

    If it's peaked, how come subscriber total is still growing, hmmmmm?

    Oh, conveniently left that bit out, did you?

  • YourMessageHere #19 4 years ago

    You know, I clean forgot that THQ were in charge of the WH40,000 MMO. Now I can be apprehensive and disappointed all over again.

    (this is fully informed THQ hate, btw)

    Also, the hypothetical World (Universe?) of Starcraft is to a WH40,000 MMO what a Fiesta with a spoiler is to a Lamborghini in terms of depth of universe and source material. Implementation of gameplay is something else, but looking at the two on paper, I think most people would opt for WH40,000.

  • bigbadbeasty #20 4 years ago

    "If it's peaked, how come subscriber total is still growing, hmmmmm?

    Oh, conveniently left that bit out, did you?"

    China. It is newer to them I believe, and they are MMO bonkers. I think Europe has 2 million players.

    I do feel it has peaked, the numbers will slowly decline.

    I think it would be foolish just to expect WoW players to just jump ship to WoW 2. MMO sequels very rarely, if ever, achieve this.

  • rhinoxious #21 4 years ago

    Good point ...

    A breakdown of who is playing from where is relevant to some of this discussion.

    In a purely business sense it's not relevant at all of course, money is money.

    But most people on eurogamer argue about business matters because they care about the way those decisions affect the actual playing of games - in that case having a huge wow subscriber base of non-english speakers could be an issue.

  • jimr9999us #22 4 years ago

    WoW has become a pvp-based mmorpg "sport" game wrapped up in an antique engine. Sure, China will be playing WoW for 10 more years, but the North American/European consumer...well, we're graphics whores, aren't we? Honestly, when the style of the game began to bore me, that's when I realized how empty the PVE content, the Story, of WoW actually is.

    So yes, in the West, WoW has peaked. What's next? Conan has a shot, WAR is dead in the water...Then Bioware, THQ, and oh yeah, World of Starcraft (put money on it).

    It'll be 2010 before there's anymore crack on the market, and odds are, it'll be Blizz all over again. In the mean time count me among those enjoying the eye candy of DX10 LotRO.

  • Ludwig #23 4 years ago

    @Bumhug360 - I think your second point contradicts your first point doesn't it? Does that graph tell us anything useful about the 'peak'? No, you are quite right, it does not.

    As far as THQ are concerned they will be happy if WoW has peaked in 'the West'. It means there will be plenty of rich mmorpg players looking for their next hit. Not sure why the big fuss now though, they are not going to release for some time yet it seems, after the lich king glow has faded.

    Of course WoW players are mmorpg players, don't get get caught up in some dead end discussion about the 'essence' of an mmorpg, and how WoW is somehow not a 'real' mmorpg. What is clear is that WoW has expanded the user base for these games, just like the DS and the Wii have expanded the user base for consoles. All it means is that as the market expands it is diversifying and it is harder to create catch-all categories. Browser-based mmogs are taking off seriously now, another example of the same trend.

    Personally I think a much more interesting discussion awaits on the subject of the sterility of modern games, go on Eurogamer please write something on the subject. Of course nobody likes bugs and rough edges and nobody likes painful save/load structures and meaningless grinding, but it seems we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater in a sense. Dev teams have cleaned up a lot of those issues and made experiences much slicker, but they have also broken some fun gameplay that used to emerge in the rough old games of yore.

  • orakio #24 4 years ago

    Don't forget that world of starcraft is eventually coming after starcraft 2... Just like WOW was the continuation of what started in Warcraft 3. THQ had better speed up the development process with some investments or Blizzard will release their next jewel before the WAR40k MMO even comes out.

  • Fugazi #25 4 years ago

    I am 100% sure that Starcraft MMO will beat 40K one. It is simply because Blizzard > THQ, especially now that Blizzard gained shitload of MMO experience from WoW and made their mistakes (hi flying mounts killing remains of world PvP etc.).

    From http://www.mmog chart.com/Chart11.html you can clearly see that WoW will peak at wotlk release (in EU/US at least, I care about Asia). Now what happens next is mystery...

    AoC - I suppose it will end with lotro-like numbers (100-500k), maybe I am pessimist about this game but well it reminds me hellgate somehow...
    WAR - This is only game that can (in time) get comparable numbers with WoW in EU/US. I expect them to reach 1000k in first year in EU/US, maybe 2000k. However if they fail then I am 99% sure that WoW will own the market until Starcraft MMO. Anyhow this is only MMO that could take away EU/US players from WoW, well at least until Blizzard realize that their PvP is big shit and rework it completely (yeah sure).

  • Ryuken #26 4 years ago

    If World of StarCraft is gonna be another "polished" rehash of what we've seen in previous MMO's and online action RPG's like Diablo II then I'll pass. Same counts for the Warhammer 40k MMO of course. Stop the grind, get rid of the linear questlines everyone needs to play through, get an exciting combat system for once and enough means to make an impact in the storyline/world and then, maybe then, such a game will be worth the monthly fee.

  • 8run8 #27 3 years ago

    This talk about wether a game is better than WoW or making a game to beat WoW is really childish. The lesson that THQ seems to be missing is the "how" of WoW's success. Blizzard did the smartess thing a developer could do and thats give their fan base exactly what they want. People apparently don't remember that before WoW there was Warcraft, one of the largest and most successful franchises on the market. Blizzard took all the key elements that the fans loved about the genre and moved it over to a mmo format.

    Which is not whats happening here with THQ. I personally believe that Warhammer40k will be the biggest title of the next age of mmo's. In the next few years, huge titles will be hitting the mmo scene, with StarWars, StarTrek, APB, and so many others it's staggering. Warhammer is truely epic in scale and depth, for THQ to treat this title like any other game would be insulting and typical of the attitude of game developers. Thats why theres this talk of taking on WoW, being better and all this other B.S.

    Warhammer sells its self, it hasn't been around for over twenty years by accident. If GamesWorkshop doesn't start paying more attention to whats being done and start demanding more from developers, it will be like WAR: Age of Reckoning. WAR a game brought to its knees by, glorified mediocrity, short sightedness, and typical incompatance by a developer that thinks they can continue churning out high polished crap and people will buy it. Well, there will always be some whom will buy it.

    If THQ and the like want to be big and fat like Blizzard with their ten plus million subscribers off of just one title, then the days of half-stepping needs to come to an end. Because this is about money, millions and billions of dollars. You can't get those kinds of numbers anymore making baby pacifiers for latch key kids like WoW, it's been done and the market is demanding more than just whats being handed down over the past ten years. So we will continue to see big titles fail as long as devs keep churning out garbage.