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Rare: Banjo display glitch here to stay News
Xbox 360 News by Robert Purchese
Rare has said that the small text in Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts is unlikely to be adjusted to work on standard-definition TVs.
"Unfortunately, this is an issue that doesn't look like it will get changed," apologised Rare community manager George Kelion on NeoGAF.
"I don't want to bore you with the technical side of things (I really don't understand it all myself), but the long and the short of it is that the text you see in the demo will be the same as that which you find in the retail version of the game.
"I'm sorry that we weren't able to address this issue as nothing would please us more than turning all your complaints into gleeful responses, but it's simply something that's too expensive in terms of time, resources and money to alter," he added.
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts launches exclusively on Xbox 360 next Friday. The long-awaited update for the series steers away from platforming and into vehicle build-'em-up territory, where besting problems often means a trip to the excellently implemented garage.
Head over to our Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts review to find out more.
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Aloominum_man
06/11/08 @ 15:06
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Then I hope all of you SD TV owners vote with your wallets. Arrogant twats. Who's got time for a 7/10 these days anyway?
@ZuluHero - right on!
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homerramone
06/11/08 @ 15:08
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I just didnt like the demo. Pretty an all, but the vehicles have wheels that resemble those of a shopping trolley. And handle accordingly. Driving shopping trolleys can stay where it belongs. in the supermarket :-)
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Aloominum_man
06/11/08 @ 15:16
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@miiiguel
Because they've taken a brand/game that many people love and had anticipated, fucked it up, released it with the intention of taking money from anyone who wants to buy it (I presume there's no "does not work with SD TVs" on the back of the box) and now claim that the problem - and it is a problem - isn't worth their money fixing. Does that not strike you as arrogance? Possibly an honest, but stupid mistake, but an arrogant response. |
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@viper_h:
A sound theory but, unfortunately, it's not that simple. Even if the UI system they used was flawless enough to deal with every possible permitation a change like that would create they would still have to comply with Microsoft's TCRs. This means dedicating valuable QA time to going through the game screen by screen to ensure that each UI element was TCR compliant etc. Obviously, all of the above could have been avoided if it had been done correctly in the first place ;) |
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DoctorZoidberg
06/11/08 @ 15:30
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Arrogant twats. Who's got time for a 7/10 these days anyway?
If you had said that you didn't like it because you had PLAYED it and not liked it fine, but because someone (who isn't you) scored it 7/10 (Which is still GOOD btw) you have automatically dismissed it... If breathing air only got scored 2/10 by someone, would you stop breathing? (I hope you would)... Edit : @ Aloomiman Because they've taken a brand/game that many people love and had anticipated, fucked it up, released it with the intention of taking money from anyone who wants to buy it That is quite the statement! I can say EXACTLY the same thing about Fallout 3! IF you go to a fans site (such as No Mutants Allowed) there is critically negative feedback. But I don't see anyone posting that on the fallout forums here! And I agree with miiiguel, anyone who still is without a HD tele by now should probably get one. Even the £130 crap tele's in argos are HD ready these days!
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DoctorZoidberg
06/11/08 @ 15:36
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Er, why? And are new TVs high up on the priority list in the middle of a global recession
It depends. If you want to believe that were all doomed and the money is going to dry up (as if this is the first time its ever happened), then thats your business. But if you've already spent circa £200 on a games console, £40 games many times over, I'm sure getting a decent tele is quite a high priority. |
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Personally I found the text too small on an HDTV... it doesn't help that the font itself is ugly and frequently disappears off the screen before you've had a chance to read it either. Having the user press A to continue for *all* text might have helped here. The earlier N64 games had a nice chunky, easy to read, legible font. I found the small text annoying within minutes of playing the N&B demo so I'm very surprised that no-one picked it up during testing. If an adult (that's me by the way) finds the text hard to read then I'd dread to think how a child would cope. :?
Watching some gameplay videos on Gamersyde, it looks like the game constantly saves automatically too, displaying a "Saving content. Please wait blah blah blah" message and that sometimes overlaps the spoken text in the cutscenes so you'll miss it if you're unfortunate to have the game save at that point. Very clumsy IMO. |
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RedSparrows
06/11/08 @ 15:38
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'"released it with the intention of taking money from anyone who wants to buy it" '
this is the funniest thing I've read all day. OH HOW DARE THEY DO THAT! ^^ |
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"I'm sorry that we weren't able to address this issue as nothing would please us more than turning all your complaints into gleeful responses, but it's simply something that's too expensive in terms of time, resources and money to alter," he added.
If this issue had been picked up by someone during testing then there wouldn't be any need for extra expense or resources, whatever, Rare! ;) Really, that this was missed is very surprising, particularly as Dead Rising was heavily criticised for having an unreadable font on SDTVs and that came out TWO years ago! Doesn't *anyone* actually playtest these games?!? :O |
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Changing a font could have massive implications, if text is contained in a box, you then have to go test every single box to see how the larger size impacts on it, changing its dimensions. So you'd have to go through and do that for every text instance. Then factor in different languages, causing different length sentences, the entire process has to be reworked on each language too.
Essentially, this is why localisation has always taken a bloody age in the past with jRPGs. Never been a case of slapping in some new text and pumping out. If he says that its a massive undertaking and they can't afford to do it, then thats probably right. |
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@miiiguel - You're missing the point. Had Rare done proper playtesting on SD and HDTVs then they wouldn't have had to fix anything!!! No-one complained about the text in Viva Pinata or Kameo for example because it was legible and a decent size. IMO the text in B-K: N&B is too small even on an HDTV so I feel sorry for anyone who has to play on an SDTV, I really do. It's really my only big criticism of the otherwise excellent demo.
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Aloominum_man
06/11/08 @ 15:48
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Let me clarify - the 7/10 comment - tongue in cheek. Perhaps doesn't translate for you guys who don't speak English as a first language. Second thing - intent to take money; I'm not suggesting that's outrageous in any way (of course), but they've released it to the general market, and you have to pay for it in order to play it (presumably). The release hasn't been restricted clearly to those with HD TVs, but if you buy it (or wanted to buy it) as a SD TV owner, then you can go fuck yourselves, because Rare and Microsoft don't consider you important enough to make any further investment.
I wasn't implying that the community guy from Rare was being arrogant by the way, just that the corporate line - no doubt involving Microsoft - is that it's not worth their time or money to fix. |
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kinky_mong
06/11/08 @ 15:49
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Clearly the testers missed out on the fact that the text was barely visible on SD TV's.
They also missed out on the fact that the game becomes repetitive and boring after playing for 45 minutes. *Pleased with myself for cancelling pre-order* |
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ryohazuki1983
06/11/08 @ 15:49
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@consignia "The real thing is, why is something like this not included in Microsoft's acceptance testing? I would have thought one of the boxes to be ticked would usable on SDTVs."
It's not covered under any of the TCRs (could of changed as its a long time since I did the cert testing) Somebody probably might of logged it and put it in the report normally at the bottom would be a "functional" area to list issues that aren't direct TCR failures. But listed as issues we spotted. When I worked at VMC the AV guys had standard and HD tvs. |
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@Darren: I don't think I am, I'm aware that they didn't do a proper job regarding testing, but I think it was honest, and somehow "nice" of him to adress the comunity regarding this issue.
A bit "off-topic", I think some ppl still take the word "community" too literaly. This is a buisness after all, it's purpose is also to make money. Devs aren't supposed to be a bunch of hippies and code for free, I mean: "released it with the intention of taking money from anyone who wants to buy it", wtf?! |
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farticusmaximus
06/11/08 @ 15:56
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@homerramone
You do realise that those are the first set of wheels you get in the game, and thus are supposed to be crap? You get better wheels as the game progresses, and can build better handling vehicles. Think GT/Forza, the first cars you get handle like shite, but you get upgrades later on. |
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@miiiguel - Yes I suppose it was in a way, he didn't have to after all, but the fact is that had the playtesters done their job properly no apology would have been needed. I mean here is a family-friendly game that children might want to play on their SDTVs but the question is will they be able to read the text? It might not have mattered had the game had spoken dialogue but it doesn't so having a legible font should have been a priority. It clearly wasn't.
P.S. I personally prefer that Rare have kept the cute animal noises from the original game, I would have hated to have had Banjo and co speak in a human tongue as it would have been jarring. The game's opening intro however does feature a spoken narration but thereafter it's cute noises and text. |
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The_Inquisitor
06/11/08 @ 16:04
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I didn't bother with the tutorial because I found it a strain trying to read what they were saying and keep up with text which automatically changed and I do have a HD TV also. If only they spoke English this wouldn't be a problem... pity.
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GamesProgrammer
06/11/08 @ 16:04
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"Not enough time or money to fix"
They mean "Not Worth the time or money to fix" not unlike the original launch of the 360, classic microsoft. Delaying costs to much so release a faulty product and hope the cost of fixing it later isnt to bad Im glad they dont make cars.
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@The_Inquisitor - Just posted this in the B-K thread but I'll repeat it here...
On reflection perhaps Rare *should* have gone with full voice acting a la Kameo, Viva Pinata and Star Fox Adventure with the *option* to switch if off for old-style N64 voices if you preferred. That way, the small text would have been less of an issue, though that doesn't excuse how it was missed during playtesting. |
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Mentalist(air)
06/11/08 @ 16:45
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Personally I found the text too small on an HDTV
I would certainly concur with that. My TV is 50 fucking inches big, and the text is inconveniently small for me to read. It amazes me that a UK developer would make this kind of fundamental mistake. And because it's such a fundamental mistake, they're very unlikely to correct it. Edit: runaway italics...
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most recently on 06/11/08 @ 16:53
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@evilfoxhound - I'm not sure whether your post is sarcastic or not but it sounds like your mistaking consoles for being PCs to me. People buy consoles because they're a relatively cheap platform for playing games on and many will still be using SDTVs that are perfectly fine for playing the other 99.99999% of games on. Why should they rush out and buy an HDTV for *one* game? :?
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Mentalist(air)
06/11/08 @ 16:56
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I think Rare could improve the readability of text by using a plainer, less stylised, less ugly typeface
You try that, and you get some internet comic twat complaining about it (at the bottom). |
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Suddenly reminded of Metal Gear Solid (1) when I was having difficulty fighting the helicopter so called up for some advice (did a text dump so the characters might be wrong):
Campbell: You'll have to destroy that Hind, Snake. Mei Ling: You can see the Hind on your radar screen. Even if you lose visual contact, you can always check his position by radar. Campbell: Use your ears, Snake. You should be able to tell where he's coming from by the sound of his rotor blades. Campbell: Huh? Snake, you're not using a stereo TV!? Naomi: It can't be! Mei Ling: A Mono TV... Campbell: Hmmmmmm.... Naomi: Well Colonel...there's nothing we can do about it... Campbell: ...I guess you're right. Campbell: Snake, don't worry about it. There's more to being a good person than just having a stereo television. You can do it just the way you are! Mei Ling: A mono TV... |
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Triggerhappytel
06/11/08 @ 17:13
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I don't really blame Rare, as ultimately this decision will fall to MS. However, I dare say that if there is widespread criticism of a minor but important element of the Avatars that MGS will get Rare working to patch it straight away.
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Mentalist(air)
06/11/08 @ 17:19
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I don't really blame Rare, as ultimately this decision will fall to MS
No, unless the producer or art director at Microsoft insisted that they shrink the text, shrink it again, then shrink it some more, it's probably at least 75% Rare's fault. The developer shouldn't have put microscopic text in in the first place. |
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