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Players question WAR systems News
MMO PC News by Oli Welsh
There's trouble brewing in the Warhammer Online community. The Mythic MMO is facing criticism from players that its "contribution" system, which is supposed to reward players according to the contribution they make to large-scale battles, is in fact purely random.
The contribution system comes into play in WAR's Public Quests and player-versus-player Keep battles. These open-world events can be joined at any time. When they're over, a combination of a "contribution" score and a random dice-roll decides the quality of the reward for each player.
However, the bloggers at Wizards & Wenches and players on the Warhammer Alliance forums argue that the contribution score is no more than a random dice-roll itself.
The argument is that this roll is persistent for the zone you're in, and your contribution to successive Keeps or Public Quests in the same zone will remain the same unless you move on or log out. A player can make a significant contribution in one battle and none at all in the next, and get the same score both times.
There's plenty of debate on both sides on Warhammer Alliance and the VN Boards. The critics' hypothesis is hard, if not impossible, to conclusively prove, but the weight of evidence seems to be with them so far.
Mythic, normally quick to defend its reputation on the internet, hasn't commented on the issue yet.
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26 May, 2009 [0]
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Comments: 1-34 of 34 in total
Poster
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ouchie.
I've always questioned the random roll modifier they put on top of your contribution score, but never the contribution score itself. My contribution score has always been high if i've been actively taking an interest and always been very low when i happen to be caught up in the mayhem while just passing through... Be interested to see mythic's response to it mind.
Edited 4 times,
most recently on 26/11/08 @ 12:16
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In my experience of PQs the contribution score seems reasonably logical, but it's completely eclipsed by the random dice roll - to the extent that someone can contribute almost nothing and then win the highest reward and someone who has the highest score can end up last and get nothing because of a bad roll.
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bigbadbeasty
26/11/08 @ 12:07
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Hmmm... This is an interesting one. I always seemed to get a really poor roll regardless, even if I contributed considerably. It will be keeping an eye on this subject :)
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The amount of contribution from the random dice roll is pretty heavy, from what I can figure out. Having had a +500 contribution bonus on two PQs I ended up 9th out of 10 on the first result and 1st on the second.
I suspect they have a hard time balancing contribution across role-type, rank & activity, but the dice roll seems to weight the overall results too far towards a random overall outcome for my liking. Like everything else in MMO's I suspect being hammered by 1000's of players is the only way they can really fine-tune the way these things are determined. |
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kangarootoo
26/11/08 @ 12:50
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I've never played the game, but as an outsider I am surprised that there is any random element to things. It actually sounds like a way of covering up a lack of balancing.
Can't completely blame them though (for the execution at least), as determining player contribution is a ridiculously steep task for the devs to set themselves. |
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DanForinton
26/11/08 @ 13:01
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From my experience, the contribution side of things has always felt about right. The problem comes in when the random roll gets added in. I've never seen a contribution score higher than 500 but the random roll goes up to 999. Okay, this encourages people to participate in an event that's already going on, but it does discourage anyone from starting it in the first place? Why bother doing all the heavy lifting slaughtering your way through the 50-100 minions in order to get to the boss/hero when someone's going to turn up at the last minute to assist in the final stage and then walk off with the grand prize?
The simple solution is just to reduce the size of the random roll, as the current method is grotesquely unfair on the people who do all the footwork advancing a PQ/keep raid. There's probably a better, more complex solution that would make everyone happier, but that would do for a start. |
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They are just random, I walked up to a PQ at the last minute and helped kill the boss, yet came first in the loot distribution.
Also screw EA and warhammer, they ripped me off for automatic subscription renewal, despite me asking for manual billing. They then refused a refund. I didnt want to renew on a monthly basis becuase the crash bug got the better of me and I couldnt play while having to resset my computer every other time I tried a PVP instance. Now I have to go through the hassle of dealing with the bank to process a charge back. I also sent them some abuse through their support form, which made me feel a little bit better. |
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link'sdad
dont blame them men... buy pre paid cards, its alway's better if you dont want automatic subscription renewal, and dont blame the game either, we are talking about an incredible/evolutionary MMO here, respect... The Pq's loot have alway's been fair for me too... maybe "randomly/ocasionaly" there is a problem with it but in the majority of times its fair.
Edited 3 times,
most recently on 26/11/08 @ 13:30
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This isn't news this is pure speculation (which i'm on the fence on) - EG has always been 'pro-wow' furthered even moreso by the very questional 10/10 for Wrath - until you can 100% back this article up, it's mainly just fanboi/hate fodder NOT news..
As much as i like WoW this is a very low blow by EG |
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From anecdotal evidence it does seem that either the contribution system is random, or it's broken. The fact that the same person can get first several times in a row despite no participation is difficult to explain otherwise.
A random system isn't entirely crazy since team tactics and roles mean some people may end up contributing very little even though they are doing precisely what they should be doing. What is harder to understand is why the random number appears to be "rolled" only when you zone. Now people have cottoned on to it you're going to get people logging off / zoning to get a better number on subsequent runs so Mythic will either have to presuade people that isn't how it works (tricky), or change it. |
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kangarootoo
26/11/08 @ 16:12
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@Kremlik and Apologie
"As much as i like WoW this is a very low blow by EG" Are you two mental? A low blow? EG WoW bias? As if Eg staffers even give a fuck about whether WoW is better than WAR, let alone try and bias their stories. Seriously kids, you have lost all grip on reality. You may love WoW, or WAR (I can't even tell) but most other people don't really care either way. The very suggestion that any normal human being would even WANT to bias anything toward one or the other is just madness. |
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groovychainsaw
26/11/08 @ 16:20
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I think it's funny that no-one noticed for several months. Shows how much these games rely on random number generation in the first place if you can't tell the difference (not a criticism, just a omment really - we all know its just a spreadsheet running underneath it all eh?)
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kangarootoo
26/11/08 @ 17:22
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"that shit was disgusting, and you have the nerve to come here and claim that EG is not biased ???"
Lol, man you take this stuff far too seriously. "have the nerve" indeed :) And what does reading the ROLK review have to do with things? Is it not possible that it is simply a very good expansion pack? Finding a good review of a WoW product is no more proof of bias than reading a good review of a BMW car or a Delia Smith receipe. WoW is a very good game, its millions of subscribers didn't fall out of the back of a sanitarium bus you know. Only in the mind of a fanboy does positive comment inherrently mean bias or conspiracy. The only bias here is your own, you are known for it, and it blinds you to everything else. |
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I don't mind the dice roll, it's a nice bit of tension and can often sort out grievances of healers and other classes that suspect the system isn't geared towards them.
I doubt it is entirely random, but the way in which it works is definitely mysterious. Might just be so that mythic can stop hardcore players or guilds exploiting it. |
Comments: 1-34 of 34 in total
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