Players question WAR systems

By Oli Welsh Published 26 November, 2008

Is "contribution" merely random?

There's trouble brewing in the Warhammer Online community. The Mythic MMO is facing criticism from players that its "contribution" system, which is supposed to reward players according to the contribution they make to large-scale battles, is in fact purely random.

The contribution system comes into play in WAR's Public Quests and player-versus-player Keep battles. These open-world events can be joined at any time. When they're over, a combination of a "contribution" score and a random dice-roll decides the quality of the reward for each player.

However, the bloggers at Wizards & Wenches and players on the Warhammer Alliance forums argue that the contribution score is no more than a random dice-roll itself.

The argument is that this roll is persistent for the zone you're in, and your contribution to successive Keeps or Public Quests in the same zone will remain the same unless you move on or log out. A player can make a significant contribution in one battle and none at all in the next, and get the same score both times.

There's plenty of debate on both sides on Warhammer Alliance and the VN Boards. The critics' hypothesis is hard, if not impossible, to conclusively prove, but the weight of evidence seems to be with them so far.

Mythic, normally quick to defend its reputation on the internet, hasn't commented on the issue yet.

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About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (34) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • ZuluHero #1 3 years ago

    ouchie.

    I've always questioned the random roll modifier they put on top of your contribution score, but never the contribution score itself. My contribution score has always been high if i've been actively taking an interest and always been very low when i happen to be caught up in the mayhem while just passing through...

    Be interested to see mythic's response to it mind.
    Edited by 4 at 26/11/08 @ 12:16

  • Schiraman #2 3 years ago

    In my experience of PQs the contribution score seems reasonably logical, but it's completely eclipsed by the random dice roll - to the extent that someone can contribute almost nothing and then win the highest reward and someone who has the highest score can end up last and get nothing because of a bad roll.

  • Gurgeh #3 3 years ago

    Wouldn't surprise me if it was true, but it seems odd that random chance plays such a big factor that people can notice it.

  • bigbadbeasty #4 3 years ago

    Hmmm... This is an interesting one. I always seemed to get a really poor roll regardless, even if I contributed considerably. It will be keeping an eye on this subject :)

  • MikeP #5 3 years ago

    The amount of contribution from the random dice roll is pretty heavy, from what I can figure out. Having had a +500 contribution bonus on two PQs I ended up 9th out of 10 on the first result and 1st on the second.

    I suspect they have a hard time balancing contribution across role-type, rank & activity, but the dice roll seems to weight the overall results too far towards a random overall outcome for my liking.

    Like everything else in MMO's I suspect being hammered by 1000's of players is the only way they can really fine-tune the way these things are determined.

  • stevetuck #6 3 years ago

    imo it is totaly random, there has been a few times where i have turned up healed someone and with the random dice roll i got like 900 and won :D

  • Lemming81 #7 3 years ago

    I'd hardly say it's controversial though. It'll get tweaked if Mythic are aware of a problem via the players and QA testers. Hardly worthy of a tinfoil-hat article, is it?

  • kangarootoo #8 3 years ago

    I've never played the game, but as an outsider I am surprised that there is any random element to things. It actually sounds like a way of covering up a lack of balancing.

    Can't completely blame them though (for the execution at least), as determining player contribution is a ridiculously steep task for the devs to set themselves.

  • Dizzy #9 3 years ago

    The PvP XP/RvR score is something I worry more about.. that doesn't seem to make any sense sometimes.

  • Eraysor #10 3 years ago

    Makes me glad I went back to WoW.

  • DanForinton #11 3 years ago

    From my experience, the contribution side of things has always felt about right. The problem comes in when the random roll gets added in. I've never seen a contribution score higher than 500 but the random roll goes up to 999. Okay, this encourages people to participate in an event that's already going on, but it does discourage anyone from starting it in the first place? Why bother doing all the heavy lifting slaughtering your way through the 50-100 minions in order to get to the boss/hero when someone's going to turn up at the last minute to assist in the final stage and then walk off with the grand prize?

    The simple solution is just to reduce the size of the random roll, as the current method is grotesquely unfair on the people who do all the footwork advancing a PQ/keep raid. There's probably a better, more complex solution that would make everyone happier, but that would do for a start.

  • Bru-Man #12 3 years ago

    The PvP XP/RvR score is something I worry more about..

    I know what you mean. That and the increasing instability of the financial sector both keep me awake at night.

  • Apologie #13 3 years ago

    what kind of shit article is this??? lol ya guys have given the trouble to elaborate a article talking about players feedback concerning loot and how that loot its distributed after Pq's??? :) great game by the way.
    Edited by 1 at 26/11/08 @ 13:21

  • danteire #14 3 years ago

    100% agree with DanForinton

    The Contribution score always seems fair for me depending on how much i do in a PQ. The random roll however is to much of a decider, I say half the highest atainable to 499 would be a good move. Then it comes down to balancing the Contribution for each class type.

  • linksdad #15 3 years ago

    They are just random, I walked up to a PQ at the last minute and helped kill the boss, yet came first in the loot distribution.

    Also screw EA and warhammer, they ripped me off for automatic subscription renewal, despite me asking for manual billing. They then refused a refund. I didnt want to renew on a monthly basis becuase the crash bug got the better of me and I couldnt play while having to resset my computer every other time I tried a PVP instance.

    Now I have to go through the hassle of dealing with the bank to process a charge back.

    I also sent them some abuse through their support form, which made me feel a little bit better.

  • Apologie #16 3 years ago

    link'sdad

    dont blame them men... buy pre paid cards, its alway's better if you dont want automatic subscription renewal, and dont blame the game either, we are talking about an incredible/evolutionary MMO here, respect...

    The Pq's loot have alway's been fair for me too... maybe "randomly/ocasionaly" there is a problem with it but in the majority of times its fair.
    Edited by 3 at 26/11/08 @ 13:30

  • linksdad #17 3 years ago

    Dont blame them for giving the choice of automatic renewal or manual renewal, then ignoring the customers CHOICE and then refusing to refund despite not having logged in for over a month.

    As I said, I would not recommend to anyone, apart from maybe the police.

  • anomagnus #18 3 years ago

    if it is a random roll, i must be very lucky

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #19 3 years ago

    This isn't news this is pure speculation (which i'm on the fence on) - EG has always been 'pro-wow' furthered even moreso by the very questional 10/10 for Wrath - until you can 100% back this article up, it's mainly just fanboi/hate fodder NOT news..

    As much as i like WoW this is a very low blow by EG

  • Apologie #20 3 years ago

    Kremlik

    i agree 100%, this is nothing but fanboy crap.

  • dylman #21 3 years ago

    Where was WoW mentioned again?

    (Possibly) negative news about WAR does not equal a pro-WoW bias you know, there is plenty of room for both. :)
    Edited by 1 at 26/11/08 @ 14:23

  • Apologie #22 3 years ago

    dylman

    quiet fanboy, is it me or you just refered that there is room for "pro-WoW bias" :)
    Edited by 2 at 26/11/08 @ 14:37

  • dylman #23 3 years ago

    Damnit, you're too cunning for me.

    OK I admit it! I think the RNG in WoW is much better than the crappy one in WAR! There I said it.

  • Gurgeh #24 3 years ago

    From anecdotal evidence it does seem that either the contribution system is random, or it's broken. The fact that the same person can get first several times in a row despite no participation is difficult to explain otherwise.

    A random system isn't entirely crazy since team tactics and roles mean some people may end up contributing very little even though they are doing precisely what they should be doing. What is harder to understand is why the random number appears to be "rolled" only when you zone.

    Now people have cottoned on to it you're going to get people logging off / zoning to get a better number on subsequent runs so Mythic will either have to presuade people that isn't how it works (tricky), or change it.

  • kangarootoo #25 3 years ago

    @Kremlik and Apologie

    "As much as i like WoW this is a very low blow by EG"

    Are you two mental? A low blow? EG WoW bias? As if Eg staffers even give a fuck about whether WoW is better than WAR, let alone try and bias their stories.

    Seriously kids, you have lost all grip on reality. You may love WoW, or WAR (I can't even tell) but most other people don't really care either way. The very suggestion that any normal human being would even WANT to bias anything toward one or the other is just madness.

  • groovychainsaw #26 3 years ago

    I think it's funny that no-one noticed for several months. Shows how much these games rely on random number generation in the first place if you can't tell the difference (not a criticism, just a omment really - we all know its just a spreadsheet running underneath it all eh?)

  • Apologie #27 3 years ago

    kangarootoo

    what?? ... read WOW:ROLK review, and then we talk, that shit was disgusting, and you have the nerve to come here and claim that EG is not biased ??? gotta open your eyes dude... fanboy im telling ya, fanboy shit all over this site. Peace

  • kangarootoo #28 3 years ago

    "that shit was disgusting, and you have the nerve to come here and claim that EG is not biased ???"

    Lol, man you take this stuff far too seriously. "have the nerve" indeed :)

    And what does reading the ROLK review have to do with things? Is it not possible that it is simply a very good expansion pack?

    Finding a good review of a WoW product is no more proof of bias than reading a good review of a BMW car or a Delia Smith receipe. WoW is a very good game, its millions of subscribers didn't fall out of the back of a sanitarium bus you know.

    Only in the mind of a fanboy does positive comment inherrently mean bias or conspiracy. The only bias here is your own, you are known for it, and it blinds you to everything else.

  • Zamn10210 #29 3 years ago

    "ROLK"

    Wrath of the Lich King

  • Chimpy #30 3 years ago

    Oli Welsh writes most of the MMO news for EG. If you look at the archive of his news he has written articles about loads of games, including news for WAR and WoW.

    It's in your head.

  • AOFanboi #31 3 years ago

    <em>This isn't news this is pure speculation</em>

    Bullshit, it IS random - and that is bad. I mean, once I was running somewhere and accidentally skirted the edge of a PQ area (without fighting anything there) for a second or two, and STILL I finished THIRD.

    That is BROKEN, fanboy.

  • Apologie #32 3 years ago

    AOFanboi

    dude you dont know what your talking about and by the way.. your profile name suits you well...

  • butler` #33 3 years ago

    The contribution system is entirely fucked, anyone with an IQ>a gnat's knew that at release, though.

    It was great for me though, as I ended up in nearly full epic gear about 5 days after hitting the level cap.
    Edited by 1 at 26/11/08 @ 19:15

  • Gl3n #34 3 years ago

    I don't mind the dice roll, it's a nice bit of tension and can often sort out grievances of healers and other classes that suspect the system isn't geared towards them.

    I doubt it is entirely random, but the way in which it works is definitely mysterious. Might just be so that mythic can stop hardcore players or guilds exploiting it.