Duke Nukem Forever Preview

By Kristan Reed Published 19 March, 2004

Seven years on, we're getting itchy. It's making 'steady' progress, but won't be at E3, says George Broussard...

We love black humour, gallows humour, call it what you will. Those moments of utter despair lightened up by a sideways glance and sharp monotone quip, and it's difficult not to crack a wry smile at 3D Realms' hapless attempts to make another game. Every time the Formula 1 results come in, any gamer seeing the list of DNF drivers can't help be reminded of the delicious irony of the game that Did Not Finish also happens to share those telling initials. Yes, 3D Realms' interminably delayed PC shooter Duke Nukem Forever is a game now well into its seventh year (and counting) of development, yet it's still showing no signs of even being reasonably close to being completed. You couldn't make it up, you really couldn't.

But, being of patient persuasion, lover of 1996's Duke Nukem 3D, chaser of lost causes and the occasional visitor to 3D Realms' forum, it's possible to glean occasional titbits of information to keep the obsessive/compulsive diehard's flicker of hope aflame. Most of us that believed that the game would, indeed, be a glorious work of awe and wonder [and it still could, couldn't it? -Twitching, greying, toothless Ed] have long since given up wondering when 3D Realms will finally get its act together and release something. Anything. Please. We beg your merciful souls. Despite the prevailing logic, we still can't help but care about what's going on somewhere in Texas, fools that we are.

Dreaming? Never! Fornicators!

You may recall that last year, George Broussard infamously told Take-Two to 'STFU' in response to some inferred impatience from its exasperated publisher, and, since then, in its last two set of financials Take-Two has indeed STFU, having not even mentioned DNF in its last few financial reports, while investors don't seem too bothered about it now either. Does it even have a publisher anymore? 3D Realms apparently has enough self funding to survive hell freezing over and thawing back out again, so that's unlikely to be an issue to affect the game.

This week, though, Broussard obligingly elected to answer some questions posed on the board, which re-confirm that the game definitely won't be making an appearance at E3 2004 ("I don't think we care about E3 anymore and may never go again,") and that "Steady... constant, forward progress" is being made on the game. Well, you'd hope that would be the case after seven years wouldn't you? Still, nice to hear it hasn't been canned, but Broussard remains as frustratingly non-committal as to when the game will ever appear.

It's hard to imagine how a developer could still be "creating new stuff every day and putting it in the game" seven years into its creation, rather than just testing and polishing, but this statement alone speaks volumes of how far into the project 3DR really is.

Asked what the reaction of 3D Realms' new staff was to the game, Broussard replied: "I never speak for other people. I suspect they thought we would be farther along than we were at the time. But things are going very well now." I suspect we all thought the game would be farther along - which makes us wonder exactly what 3DR was showing off in its 98 and 2001 E3 videos.

Damn Nigerian Footballers

But again, Broussard insists "I've never once doubted we would ship. Only a matter of time." However, time is an abstract concept, and of course, there's absolutely no swaying the man on giving anyone even the vaguest ballpark figure on "when it's done," the firms' hilarious catch-all response to any request for a completion date.

Even pushed to say if the game would be ready before 2006, he repeated the "When it's done" mantra, adding, "We're past any estimates or guesses, no matter how safe they may be". Sigh. More worrying still is the fact that the game engine is still being fixed: "There are very few rendering/core engine bugs. The recent past has been spent just on optimizations and squeezing every millisecond we can out of things."

Continuing the talk of still being at a building block stage Broussard admitted: "We've actually been working in and finalizing lots of particle and effects systems lately. Anything from guns or wall and blood effects, to toilets. Typically, at this point, we try to finalize every asset that goes into the game now so it's not something to do, later."

Deeply Nihilistic Fops

On a tech spec level, 3D Realms' co-boss also admitted that technology still has to catch up with what it is attempting with the game. "The graphics are pretty high end and machines don't exist yet to run at [1600x1200] resolution at playable framerates. You will be able to turn graphics features on/off in the menus and trade framerate for visual quality. [It supports] all resolutions, but I doubt you will be playing in 1600x1200."

So what we have here, essentially, is an Unreal Engine-based game that couldn't even be played on a top end Athlon 64 with a Radeon 9800XT. Somehow, even on the basis of that single statement alone, you're looking at a game which will still be at the high end in two year's time - great to show off what a PC can do, but not really the recipie for a mass market game.

Indeed, Broussard's attitude to catering for the masses are clear: "The game will default to max details. That's why our recommended specs are so high. Really, with what we're doing, there is max detail, and as you drop things out you lose a lot of visual quality, so I kind of see it as all or nothing." Asked what he thought of the Crytek's Far Cry engine and Id's Doom III engine, he utters: "Both are neato". Um, thanks.

Drinking Neat Firewater

Pushed on the issue of AI, Broussard was adamant that "everyone over hypes AI, ya know? All we want to do is provide bad guys that are interesting to fight, and that don't do dumb things, such as run into walls, or other glaring errors. In this day and age, flocking, squad behaviour and the rest, are all pretty common place."

Regarding physics, this year's lens flare, he says: "Yes, physics and interactivity are very important to us. But every game is doing physics today, so I suspect their wow factor will have diminished by the time we ship." Well, yes, if you're going to take nine years to make a game George, you do run that risk.

Quizzed on the thorny issue of getting the game out bug free, he admits: "In the end, all we can do it try our best, then patch like mad if we have to, to smooth things out. But I think after all this time we will strive very hard to make it as polished as smooth as possible. But again, everyone says that, right?"

Delivering Nothing Fresh?

In terms of mods, Broussard offers: "Just like Duke 3D we will ship the tools on the CD. I believe we were the first people to do that with a major FPS. We will clearly try to support the game as much as possible after release. We want people modding it and having fun with the tools." Answering how easy modding will be, he says: "It's the Unreal engine, so overall I suppose expect similar experiences with modding any other Unreal game."

Multiplayer, though, appears to be on the back burner for the time being: "It has been [up and running] in the past. We're focusing on single-player at the moment and more efforts will be spent on multiplayer in a bit." A bit? Given that Far Cry was delayed fully six months purely to work on the multiplayer gives us some idea of just how long we have to wait. He continues: "UT2K4 took a full team a year and a half to develop. I think it's fair and safe to say that we won't go as far as they did in multiplayer. We just don't have the time or team size to [implement the same features as UT2K4]."

Humour was certainly one of the best elements of Duke Nukem 3D, providing many laugh out loud "Holy Cow!" moments that linger in the memory years afterwards, but apparently the direction isn't something that has been fully considered as yet, with Broussard's giving a vague "we won't really be sure until later" answer - although with tongue firmly in cheek, he reveals that the cigar chomping Duke is in good shape and eager to kick ass, and "he reminds us every time he looks in the mirror".

Death Never Fights

Damn. Is it looking good? Will we ever know?

Picture of Kristan.

About Kristan Reed

Kristan is a former editor of Eurogamer, dad, Stone Roses bore and Norwich City supporter who sometimes mutters optimistically about Team Silent getting back together.

Read more articles from Kristan by visiting the Kristan Reed archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (101) Latest comment 8 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Khanivor #1 8 years ago

    Maybe the are going to do a tie-in and release it to coincide with man landing on Mars.

  • space_ace #2 8 years ago

    i had a hard time choosing my favorite hilarious quote from this article. it must be... "...later"! ;)

  • lost_soul #3 8 years ago

    Dreaming For Noreason

    DFN??

  • Lutz #4 8 years ago

    Words fail me...

  • elevenses #5 8 years ago

    Much like galleon - does anyone really care after so long?

  • ralphwolfenstein #6 8 years ago

    "Every time the Formula 1 results come in, any gamer seeing the list of drivers that Did Not Finish can't help recognise the delicious irony that the game that Did Not Finish also happens to share those telling initials"

    That's one of the worst things you've ever written Krudster! Well done!

    :¬)

  • krudster #7 8 years ago

    Why, thank you Ralph! ;

    Can't wait til the 3DR tardboy army tell me what they think of me!

    /rubs hands, wears tin helmet, chomps cigar

    "Hur hur hur! What a mess!"

  • logan #8 8 years ago

    Duke Nukem Whenever

  • Tyronne #9 8 years ago

    d.n.f - denial news frequently...
    7yrs to make a game..funny thing is though when it does get released the next next next next generation of games will be either close to release or released ,the more time passes the more things begin to stink...and lets not even mention prey.

  • Angrydarren #10 8 years ago

    Christ what an arrogant prick that Broussard is. Seems a good example that, despite what most people think, publishers aren't the only self serving, pompous tosspots in the industry. Developers are equally adept at disappearing up their own assholes as well.

  • sam_spade #11 8 years ago

    Dreary News Filler.

    There will be kids that on the release that will be asking, "Daddy what's a PC?"

  • EVERYGAMER #12 8 years ago

    Christ what an arrogant prick that Broussard is.

    I agree, Maybe the release date for DNF is up his arse along it would seem with his head.

  • El_MUERkO #13 8 years ago

    Slow news day was it lads?

    Seriously why post anything about this vapourware, DNF sounds like a half assed tedious action shouter without any of the unique traits from the orginal game.

    Hell two of the best things about Duke 3d was the humour and the multiplayer and they're not even paying attention to it yet.

    Its sickening, it doesnt deserve reporting, let the painkiller wannabe (which is what i think it'll end up like) sully the memory of a PC gaming classic on other websites and get on with the real reporting.

  • pjmaybe #14 8 years ago

    Bizarrely I was thinking about this game on the way into work this morning...you guys have got to stop reading my mind with that bloody satellite of yours...

    When this was first announced I was a PFY working at EB, scratching my way through college (but then my cooties got better), and thinking "WOW, that sounds like the coolest game in the world"

    Now, 6 PC upgrades later, a jaded old git working in the network industry and any announcement about DNF just makes me smile and think "Pfah!" Irritatingly it's become a huge industry joke which would have to be nigh-on spectacular (and given the development team you KNOW it won't be) to be going up against any FPS released this year, or for that matter in the past 2-3 years...

    Give it up you guys...

    Peej

  • krudster #15 8 years ago

    No, it's not a slow news day, it just happens to be the sequel to one of the best games ever made, and that we think this eternal tale of development hell makes for an unintentionably amusing read that you can all enjoy!
    Ignoring it is what we do most of the time, but having a laugh at the latest lamentable claims from 3DR now and then is turning into a sport!

  • lost_soul #16 8 years ago

    A worthwhile article, IMO. I stopped following the DNF mess years ago, so it's good to get the ocassional update on what's (not) happening.

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #17 8 years ago

    Come on Kris, everyone knows Quake was better!

    (What have I done.)

  • Lutz #18 8 years ago

    Bah! Quake was shite!

    :D

  • Daryoon #19 8 years ago

    Duke Nukem ...Whatever

  • bad #20 8 years ago

    Intriguingly the 'next month' page of the latest EDGE magazine is a huge radiation symbol...

    Do you reckon they know something we don't?

  • krudster #21 8 years ago

    Duke was great in single player and co-op over a modem. Never actually got a decent sized Dukematch going though.

    Quake was good, obviously, but we're not talking about Quake are we? Apart from Quake IV when that finally gets shown off at E3.

  • CyberClaw #22 8 years ago

    I'm all out of gum.

  • Gl@eken #23 8 years ago

    I do hope they never cancel it. The joke has to be kept a alive for future generations.

    For some reason it reminds me of a joke in Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy about some guy who had the record for the longest lunch hour ever. Basically he left 67 years ago and has not returned yet. They put a sign on his office door saying "missing presumed fed"

  • oceanmotion #24 8 years ago


    There using the Unreal engine lol. They are already behind the times. Liecence some other engine. Great humoured games though.

  • thebuzzard #25 8 years ago

    Deus Ex 2 shows just how bad the Unreal engine can be. Not suprised this will be the same.

  • rauper Verified Managing Director, Eurogamer Network #26 8 years ago

    krudster! that's shocking... Dukematch was amazing... only Hollywood Holocaust tho... Played it every lunch time at school for about two years :D

  • UncleLou #27 8 years ago

    At school, eh?

    /feels old

  • ssuellid #28 8 years ago

    bad, the radiation symbol could be for Stalker - lots of press went to visit the devs recently.

  • Razzajazz #29 8 years ago

    Thanks Krudster, I love reading the latest update of chaos in the story that is Disaster Never Finished. I really like DN3D, but I hope this game does not sell at all, so that a lesson is sent out to arrogant prick developers who think that they can take as long as they like on the grounds that it will be "Ground-Breaking" and that think they know better than the "Plebs" who buy their games.

    Mr. Broussard is clearly a man coasting along at his own pace, not giving a damn about gamers who have followed 'The Duke' since his side-scrolling days. As such, the games press should be hounding him for new info every single day, camping outside his house, invading his business lunches, harrasing him until he breaks down and hands out a single screenshot.

    Seems to me DNF is pretty DOA....

  • marilena #30 8 years ago

    / devil's advocate

    Everyone forgets that 3D Realms haven't exactly been sitting on their arses until now. They played an important role in the developement of Max Payne and it's sequel. I second Krudster in saying that Duke Nukem 3D was briliant, and way ahead of it's time too. Until Half-Life, no game offered so much interaction with the environement.

  • pjmaybe #31 8 years ago

    Did anyone see the last "in game footage" reel of DNF? (I think it was on some covermount disk a while back)

    Had to be one of the fugliest games I'd ever seen, specially the women models - looked like someone had cut their face textures out of cornflake packets...

    Grim!

    Duke Nukem Forever - Coming to an OAP home near you...soon.

    Peej

  • pjmaybe #32 8 years ago

    Jaysus, i hope not for their sake. It'd make my YEAR if that atrocity game out at the same time as Half Life 2.

    Peej

  • Celeborn #33 8 years ago

    I thought that they'd admitted in the past that the E3 footage they'd shown was just a mocked up demo using the Quake engine just so they could show something off: and was actually nothing to do with the actual game.

  • krudster #34 8 years ago

    Yeah, but that was the 98 demo, and looked a lot of fun, with tons of "on rails" sections from the back of a truck well before they were standard issue.

    The 2001 demo looked well ahead of anything else out at the time, too, and I disagree with Peej's assertion that it was fugly - I recall feeling quite elated at the time that it was close to release...how foolish and niave was I?

  • Sko #35 8 years ago

    "recipie"?

    I tell ya, when I die, I want to come back as a 3D Realms employee. Talk about job for life...

  • krudster #36 8 years ago

    The *point* is that this is a games site, and this is an article about a game that is the follow up to a 1996 classic. A follow up that no one has had any concrete info on in nearly three years.
    And the *point* is this is a comical situation that 3DR is perpetuating for our amusement...

    What was the point of your post?

  • mcmonkeyplc #37 8 years ago

    Good point Krud

    Why dont you just play pro evo 3, thats my point.

    Donits Never Fuck!

    Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkk after reading the article properly, Ive come to the conclusion that 3DR is a group of sad arse motherfucking geeks who have decided to play the biggest and lamest joke ever on the game playing public...

    Ladies and Gentleman...Donits Never Fuck, will never be released!
    Edited by 1 at 19/03/04 @ 22:14

  • DarkEula #38 8 years ago

    That is bad journalism at it's worst. You take a few forum posts and make it a preview? Disgraceful...

  • mcmonkeyplc #39 8 years ago

    pfft fanboy...

    to solve this problem I prescribe 1 bottle of vodka, 1 pack of skittles, 1 beautiful lady.

    Mix the vodka with all skittles except for the green ones.
    Let it brew for around 2 hours.
    Drink
    Indulge in the beautiful lady (legal indulgence only)

    Now go and be free of this geekness in which you have sucumbed while i go shoot my self for writing this.

  • mcmonkeyplc #40 8 years ago

    Its called a JOKE...this article, as its states at the start, is an attempt at black humour at the expense of the said game, which also should contain black humour ahhhhhh the irony.


    I really feel like a geek now

    P.S Krudster your a genius (need alchol now, NO must not drink alone, but soooo bored NOOOOO, No xbox and no beer makes MCMONKEYplc something something!

    Edits for lack of grammer...grammer may take 7 years to develop.
    Edited by 3 at 19/03/04 @ 22:28

  • Tyronne #41 8 years ago

    ohh they are coming out of the wood work now...once you pick back the scab that is just how long its gonna take to make what at the end of the day is just a game, you will get the fanboys/girls/aliens appear as if by magic....lets be honest here ,even if they have dropped and changed game engines even on a yearly basis its still the same premise.Also this is a game that has taken longer to create than some developers are in existance for before being either bought out or they go the way of the dido..i mean dodo..the dido bit was just wishful thinking...
    Thing is when it does finally get released I will no doubt end up buying it but then give it a few hours it will be finished with and then it will be onto the multiplayer bit until the next game takes my fancy and it begins to gather dust on my shelf..d.n.f is not the be all and end all of gaming, no game ever will as they will always continue to innovate,borrow ideas and move on....

  • mcmonkeyplc #42 8 years ago

    Oh and lastly did you know that pro evo is being released on the xbox.

    Bless you Konami, just dont take any advice from 3DR

  • DarkEula #43 8 years ago

    Joke? The only joke is the author of that POS...

  • Razz #44 8 years ago

    Death Comes Fast Do Complete Fucking Duke Nukem Forever. Decide Now Frantically Doing Nothing Funny Doodoo Nilhilistic Fop.

  • L0cky #45 8 years ago

    Krudster,

    I've been a regular reader of eurogamer for years and not a 3drealms fanboy in the slightest (I played Duke Nukem for about 5 minutes a long time ago and it wasn't for me). Anyway, I came across the forum from a Bluesnews link, found it slightly interesting; then came to eurogamer and read this article.

    The quality of eurogamer has been slipping since about november and I think this article demonstrates it well. It's always a slow day here, it's quite apparant eurogamer doesn't have any solid links within the game industry for news; perhaps that's why this kind of crap makes the lead article.

    "More worrying still is the fact that the game engine is still being fixed:"

    The article takes a quote from the game developer and turns it upside down into something that wasn't said at all; I think anyone who made judgements based on this article should go and read the forum that it came from. 'few' being the operative word in this case.

    http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Nu mber=496648&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&fpart=1&vc=1

    "but having a laugh at the latest lamentable claims from 3DR now and then is turning into a sport!"

    "after reading the article properly, Ive come to the conclusion that 3DR is a group of sad arse motherfucking geeks"

    Very professional and commendable. Would reading this article make your readers informed enough to make this kind of judgement? I think you should consider journalistic credability before writing this kind of piece. The article pokes fun at a game developer and then asks why they stopped talking to the press; pretty much a self defeating question.

  • Tyronne #46 8 years ago

    fat american..bloody hell now theres a insult...talk about wrong on every single level...and missed the point i was trying to make..which is it still does not matter how much effort goes into it..it is still only a game...other than that its pretty farcical moaning about things on the net as both parties are like entrants in the special olympics...regardless who wins they are both retarded.

  • L0cky #47 8 years ago

    Maybe he's a realist. You can't make a judgement on how a game will 'feel' until it's finished. That goes for anything you can create. You can know technical specifics, but not the end effect.

  • merlin #48 8 years ago

    krudster, must say I agree with L0cky. This is bad writing, you make it sound like an interview when it is a series of forum posts misrepresented. Black humour? Not funny, if you ask me.

  • krudster #49 8 years ago

    Let me just quote myself: "This week, though, Broussard obligingly elected to answer some questions posed on the board"

    I think this makes it pretty clear where the source material came from. And at no stage did I make out that we interviewed him - or did the little fanboys here just miss that bit so they can exercise their flaming muscles?

    I consider myself a huge Duke fan, and want DNF to be as great a game as anyone, but you have to laugh at how GB talks about the game as if it's only been in development for a year...rather than seven!

    As I said, it wasn't a slow news day - I just considered some new info on a game we hear nothing about to be an absolute priority. If you didn't like the style, well, I can't help that. We're sarcastic gits in Britain, in case you weren't aware, which is why articles like this get such an extreme reaction from the US readers - because I think/assume you really don't share our sense of humour (that's "humour";). Or at least some, anyway. I know plenty of sharp Americans.

  • Tyronne #50 8 years ago

    There is one thing I would like to add...I do know how long it takes to create a game as a few years back I was a part of a production company making one, which sadly never released even though the beta version was practically complete.Although the music from it was used later in the gold edition of battlecruiser millenium and there is one song on that which has someone telling a story ove some music..and that person be me...songs taken out of context though as it was part of the story of the previous game but thats life.

  • Dropkick #51 8 years ago

    Krudster next time you write a review add a link to canned laughter, just help people without a sense of humour

  • Tyronne #52 8 years ago

    Large influx of newpeeps...this been linked from anywhere by any chance...namely the 3drealms forum perchance ?

  • krudster #53 8 years ago

    Ooh sticks and stones. If the article is pathetic, you might want to check back and acknowledge that the vast majority of it comes straight from the horses mouth. I'm not actually in a position to judge the game, and neither is anyone here. The fact that it's taking so long and GB still thinks he can keep interest high by drip feeding us nothing is actually funny.

    So, can any of the DNF watchers actually tell us what will be good about the game, and why non DN3D fans should be excited? Because in all this kerfuffle I think all of us have overlooked the fact that we know precisely zip about the game other than tiny details.

  • Shadrach #54 8 years ago

    Thanks for that Tyronne. You once worked on a game that was never released. Your point being...? Games do not take 7 years to make, unless you do something very wrong.

  • Tyronne #55 8 years ago

    has there suddenly been a new gaming law like something from the bible in which it states..thou shalt not joke about dnf in any shape nor form ? as I sure dont recall hearing anything about it... although black books on thursday must of been like the game development meetings over the past 7 years....okay so its got a mouse who eats licorice and lives in a shoe..yes i like it so far let programme for a few months...ohh and he sings rock and roll songs...no no no no its crap lets start afresh...okay...well theres this bloke with a weird haircut...okay...and he likes guns and women..okay ...and he fights aliens...yeah great lets programme and do art for a few years....ohh and he uses a out of date game engine..no no no no wrong wrong wrong lets start again...okay...how about a transvestite nun..okay...who likes guns...hmmm okay...lives in a shoe...and fights aliens ...yeah great i love it lets make it....and it`ll come out when its done.

  • krudster #56 8 years ago

    Wow Rexxie you'd make a *great* journalist!

    "Hey, let's link to a forum with 300 rambling posts..that'd make a great story"

    Imagine switching on the TV: "We can't be arsed to report the news today - we heard that there's something vaguely interesting on some other channels if you want to turn over."....

  • Sko #57 8 years ago

    Kristan, please promise me that if you ever do another article like this you'll post a link to it in the fan-boy forums yourself. These "this is pathetic" posts are hilarious!

    You can almost see these people reading the original GB posts in the forum and nodding sagely. :)

  • vincent #58 8 years ago

    very good.
    a lot of blood

  • L0cky #59 8 years ago

    The way I see it 3DRealms started working on a new Duke game; they released info on it; they had internal problems (like the majority of projects that are announced) and it got canned.

    Then they started working on another Duke game, and decided that releasing info on it was a bad idea, based on the previous game being scrapped.

    So really, they've been working on a game for less than four years and haven't yet announced it other than by title and general concept.

    The only difference between this and Valve's Half-Life is that Valve were fortunate enough to get the previous incarnation of the game out the door.

    "...and GB still thinks he can keep interest high by drip feeding us nothing..."

    Nowhere since they scrapped the old build of DNF have I seen GB's intention to keep interest high, I've only seen the opposite.

    I know the article is supposed to be humuorous but good humuor makes a good point. The whole 'DNF is taking forever' joke has been done to death a million times over, it's not funny. It's even less funny that you chose to recycle it again just because a developer dared to speak.

    eurogamer's never been entirely objective, that's why I read it; and I'm not against making fun of people if it's witty and fair, and retains some form of respect. In this case I think you just came off sounding bitter and arrogant rather than sarcastic; and I'm British.

  • L0cky #60 8 years ago

    Suggestion: do an article on the state of Atari :p

  • quantumsheep #61 8 years ago

    Unless by some miracle the game is 'the best game evah' and sells more than The Sims then it simply won't make back the money it needs to pay for seven years worth of development.
    Add to that the fact that it will alienate some players by requiring top of the line systems to play on and the market for it gets smaller.
    Then (correct me if I'm wrong) factor in that it's a PC game only and your market shrinks even further.
    I really don't see how the game, even if it rocks, will ever make money for 3Drealms.
    As such, it's a very expensive joke stuck in development hell.

  • Feanor #62 8 years ago

    DNFD: Duke Nukem Forever Delayed

  • sam_spade #63 8 years ago

    Anyway, I can't believe you chose to write this instead of providing us with the Top 50 that was promised to us.

  • quantumsheep #64 8 years ago

    Well, Shakuan, I can only apply a little common sense.

    Games cost money to make. A lot of money. Mutliply 'a lot of money' by the amount of years and you have 'a hell of a lot of money'.

    Then you have to look at the market. The best selling PC game was Myst until The Sims came along and usurped it. These are not 'hardcore' games like First Person Shooters but games that appeal to a lot of 'casual' gamers.

    Games made by ID for example don't sell huge amounts. But they license the engine out to other developers and make a lot of money in that way. DNF is using the Unreal 2 engine, so they're not going to get extra revenue that way.

    So you have a game that cost a hell of a lot of money to make over 7 years (maybe more?) that will appeal mainly to the hardcore. Indeed, the hardware requirements George speaks of suggest that only the mega hardcore that will have the ninja PCs of the future will be able to play it properly.

    I'm sure if it gets average to good reviews it will sell ok. But it won't sell, imho, enough to recoup the investment.

  • El_MUERkO #65 8 years ago

    Hey Krud,

    Just so you know I enjoyed the article, understood the humour behind it (i'm irish, we're as bad if not worse than u lot) and dont disagree with it in any way.

    I'm just tired of seeing articles like this across the gaming press every few months for the last 4/5 years of DNFs 'development'.

    It'll probably be an xvbox exclusive anyway :/

  • Tyronne #66 8 years ago

    thing is which model x-box..the 2nd or third...or would the y-box of been released by then ? :)...

  • krudster #67 8 years ago

    Thanks Freek - true comedy gold!

    And Vexed? - comedy gold of the unintentional kind

    I notice none of the 15 or so 3DRealms board posters (hello Kayzer Soze!) have managed to answer the question of what they know about this game and what keeps them thinking it will be so amazing.

    I really hope it is great too, but we're all being taken for mugs after all this time. If it really does turn out to be some sort of work of art, then hats off to 3DR, but until then I kind of wish they didn't keep shooting themselves in the foot with claims that (as Freek's collection of quotes makes clear) they never follow through with.

    Remember, those polite, nice boys that come here to post constructive comments, don't shoot the messenger. This is all George's work, not mine.

  • deadlock #68 8 years ago

    Fanboys:

    There's a form of journalism called 'commentary' and that is what this article constitutes. Perhaps it was filed as a 'preview' as a joke. For better or worse, Duke Nukem Forever is a large part of the background noise that constitutes gaming culture and it is inevitable that articles like this are going to be written. This is especially true given the penchant that Broussard and Miller et al. have for making extravagant claims that they have no hope of delivering on.

    HalfLife was one of, if not the most original and innovative shooters of all time.; a sequel was both a given and a necessity and Valve's next release was always going to be watched with interest. The same is not true of the Duke Nukem games: they were, at best, passable and Duke Nukem 3D was a plagiarist magpie's nest of movie clichès and Sam Raimi rip-offs.

    So, although a sequel to DN3D could possibly be enjoyable, it was never a necessity and the currency that the 3DR franchise deals in - toilet humour (literally), misogyny, 80s machismo and the kind of gags that a movie critic would describe as 'signposted' - are becoming more and more worthless.

    deadlock

  • krudster #69 8 years ago

    Yeah, the "preview" thing should be taken with a pinch of salt, but hey, semantics and all that. It's too long to be a news story, not an interview as such...ah bollocks.

    Have to say I disagree on some of the points above. It seemed clear to me that the game was poking fun at mysogyny and sexism, being so utterly obvious. Or did I just completely miss the point?

  • deadlock #70 8 years ago

    Krudster:

    Possibly, but I think that that's giving the 3DR crowd a little more credit than they perhaps deserve. Also, the market that DN3D was aimed at at the time was reknowned for its puerile humour. It's just my take on it though - everyone takes something different away.

    Also: I do find the whole DNF saga amusing (again, I have to cite the crap that Miller and Broussard come out with), but I genuinely don't care that much about the game and my comments should be taken in that context. Like I said previously, DNF could very well turn out to be an enjoyable game (and that's no bad thing, whatever side of the fence you come down on), but I don't think that it will be a necessary one.
    Edited by 1 at 21/03/04 @ 16:48

  • Tyronne #71 8 years ago

    is it me or have a good number of these fanboys got the complete wrong end of the stick ?...I quess its times like this that you can really notice between then more sceptical and pisstaking sites here in the uk/europe and the take everything serious like it actually means something sites elsewhere....

  • ChrisOTR #72 8 years ago

    deadlock, can't really see where you're coming from here. The comedy in Duke 3D was pretty puerile but it's possible to appreciate pretty base humour as a supplement to other, more intelligent pursuits. There's no point in taking everything too seriously. The obvious influences from the Sam Raimi stuff were incredibly derivative and a little lame but who cares? As a 17 year old at the time I loved it, and I daresay there are plenty of people who'll love it as 17 year olds this time around when it comes out (so that means they're around 3 now).

    And more importantly, to my memory Duke 3D was a pioneer of interactive environments in gaming - it was rough and ready in graphical technology terms but offered a level of interactivity and fun far out of the range of what Quake was offering at the same time (so as to avoid being slagged off - I *loved* Quake as well, but its environments were incredibly simplistic by comparison to what Duke 3D achieved)

    Having said all that, to mirror what so many others here have said - I no longer really give a crap about this game. There are too many great games around here and now to spend my life wondering when this one will come out.

  • DrZaius #73 8 years ago

    these comments are just getting further and further out of context.

    I will say only that it was an interesting read. Wouldnt expect anything less from teh Krudster.

  • 3william56 #74 8 years ago

    In other news:
    Glacier Making Steady Constant Forward Progress to Bottom of Mountain.

    I never though I'd live long enough to see Duke Nukem defended as "art". I think I ruptured something at that comment.

    There's nothing like a good fanboi hoedown to lighten a boring lunchtime. More please.

  • L0cky #75 8 years ago

    "I daresay there are plenty of people who'll love it as 17 year olds this time around when it comes out (so that means they're around 3 now). "

    lol, now that's funny

  • Tyronne #76 8 years ago

    3..that months or years ? :)

  • deadlock #77 8 years ago

    ChrisOTR: deadlock, can't really see where you're coming from here.

    I was essentially defending Krudster's article, but was also offering my 2c on Duke Nukem in general, like the good busybody that I am :p

    Vexed: I'd hate to burst your buble but most of what made halflife so good was already in duke3d only to a lesser extend.

    Certain Half life level endings are pretty obvious rip offs from Duke3d for instance.

    Really? Care to expand on that? Did you even play HalfLife? The HalfLife and Duke Nukem franchises are polar opposites in terms of theme, content, presentation, immersion and general level of maturity. And, just for the record, I don't remember there being a hell of a lot of interactivity in HalfLife's environments, so I've no idea where you're coming from on that score.

  • UncleLou #78 8 years ago

    Some people here seem to have problems reading properly. The article clearly states that it's origin are forum posts.

    Besides, it's definitely one of the friendliest article about DNF I've read in ages - if even this one provoces reactions by the 3D Realms forumites, they must be busy slagging off other websites 24/7. o_O

  • krudster #79 8 years ago

    I agree, taking time isn't a bad thing, but there are limits to patience.

    The fact that they've started over twice is widely known, but it doesn't really alter the fact that the project is over seven years old.

  • marilena #80 8 years ago

    By the way Krudster, that "Best Games of 2003" feature is going to look very odd when it comes out in 2005.

    :)

  • speedjack #81 8 years ago

    Are there any screenshots for this game anywhere ? I know all the old ones were taken down as they wereno longer meant to represent the finished (sic) product.

  • Razzajazz #82 8 years ago

    Does anyone actually know anything about this game?! Krudster, can I just say that I thought this article was quite hilarious, and it was QUITE obvious to (almost) anyone reading that this was not new news or anything like that, just a commentary on how you see the development of DNF going. All those people who have slated Krud for this article, has anyone seen anything on any gaming sites about DNF recently? At least someone's talking about it....

    As much as I really do want this game to suceed, this is now consigned to Elephant-Man levels of gawping and stick-poking, and has now become a joke to most gamers. Again, to all those defending the development time, I would ask 'Are you really, 100% convinced by Mr. Broussard's claims? Can you really believe that a game that has already been scrapped twice has the vision and direction attached to it to make it a success?' If so, then I will not fault you for your decision at all, but my faith evaporated a long, long time ago....

  • krudster #83 8 years ago

    Speedjack - I doubt the 2001 screenshots are much use now, but it's all anyone has to go on for the time being.

    Razzajazz - at least some of you understood where I was coming from with this.

  • Dexter #84 8 years ago

    Do Eurogamer staff get paid according to how many comments their articles generate? ;)

  • kissoon #85 8 years ago

    I couldn't give a rat's ass about Duke Nukem but it's really fucking pathetic the way EG gets all defensive if someone other then the usual idiotic fanboys comments on their articles.

    Dexter... you might have a point.

  • pjmaybe #86 8 years ago

    Posts like the last 2 really crack me up.

    Peej

  • Sko #87 8 years ago

    Heheh. Pointing out things like them being on their third attempt at writing a game just makes GB's comments even funnier.

  • jellyhead #88 8 years ago

    The third attempt on the SAME game as well. :)

  • krudster #89 8 years ago

    Ker-ching!

  • Genome #90 8 years ago

    As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.
    [/]

    True, true. But at least, after seven years, you could at least start to see the outlines and the general ideas and the look of what Rome would be. And I'm pretty certain that Rome was a bigger task than DNF is.

  • Freek #91 8 years ago

    But they also burned that down. :D
    Edited by 1 at 22/03/04 @ 22:35

  • Tyronne #92 8 years ago

    well there you go then...give it a try...then burn it down and start all over again...thats the thing that gets me...they say its now on its third incarnation but surely the design spec has been fairly steady throughout...way it stands at the moment I get more fun out of reading DNF posts by fanpeople than no doubt I will have fun of the game itself..

  • jellyhead #93 8 years ago

    Maybe they're coding it on a swamp and the Game keeps sinking into the mud, apart from the third one which will catch fire, fall over and THEN sink into the swamp.
    Maybe the fourth one will work. :)

  • Cpt_Fluffy #94 8 years ago

    Quoting Mr Vexed:

    "Something that isn't widely known is that they started over more than twice. "

    Sod how many times they've started the coding from scratch, what sort of a devteam does any of the hard work without a clear idea of script, features and so-on fully mapped out?

    I hear EA won't let their devteams add features that weren't mentioned in the initial planning stages because of the problems caused to both project timescale and often one new feature messing up an old one (bugs!).

    What I'm saying is 3DR are experienced in this industry and that it amazes me that they can be seven years in (I fully forgive scrapping code to work on a new engine) and not really be willing to sound like they have the basics in place. Jesus, how hard a decision can it be as to whether to attempt to recreate the humour of DN3D? (As hinted in the final paragraph of Krudster's article, Broussard really has no idea yet.)

    Game development lesson #42. Bad planning does not an easy project make.

  • Freek #95 8 years ago

    Max Payne wasn't developed by 3D Realms, it was developed by Remedy, 3D Realms was just an advisor in the project.

  • Dirtbox #96 8 years ago

    Christ almighty!

    I honestly didn't think there were people stupid enough to play fanboi to a game that doesn't exist, nor is ever likely to at this rate. Get a life, go on...

    Detestabley Naive Fanboys

    Developers Nibbling Forums

  • Brutalisk #97 8 years ago

    The question beckons... what's the average age of the majority of the people that post?

    Judging from all the crap I've read through (I've stopped around mid-way couldn't handle reading everything - so I guess the bottom half can take a breather as this does not necessarily include them) I would say from 12 to an immature 15 (so the mature 15s can relax).

  • Khab #98 8 years ago

    I like how they all refer to Broussard as "George", sort of implying they have a special relationship with him and therefore know everything we do not. :)

  • HarryB #99 8 years ago

    LOL I had a look at the official DNF site and this is what it says
    -----------
    No, you cannot pre-order the game. If you see some online store saying "We are taking pre-orders", they're just trying to get your money (they usually also make up their own supposed "insider release date info", too). There is no release date set, we are not taking pre-orders for the game. End of story.

    Once we begin taking pre-orders, believe us, you'll know about it. :)

    The release date of this game is "When it's done". Anything else, and we mean anything else is someone's speculation. There is no date. We don't know any date. If you have a friend who claims they have "inside info", or there's some game news site, or some computer store at the mall who claims they know - they do not. They are making it up. There is no date. Period.

    And yes, we know the game has taken a long time. There's no possible joke you could make about the game's development time that we haven't already heard. :)
    ------------

    Angry chaps!

  • HarryB #100 8 years ago

    ooh more info

    * Console ports: The decision on what to port DNF to has not been made, despite what you might have read anywhere. It won't be made until right around the same time DNF has been released for the PC. Why? YOu can't port something that isn't finished! As for what consoles? Again, that decision won't be made until later - however, the Xbox is the leading candidate because of it's internal architecture. Others - don't know. Although I'd tend to doubt the Gamecube, because we wanted Max Payne there (Max has lower requirements than Max did) **WTF is he on about here???**, and couldn't make it work.

    and George claims this is why it was delayed.....

    * "What's taking so long?": Lots of things. We had too few programmers early on. Some tech took too long to do. We switched engines. We started over a time or two. And a bunch of other stuff. Point is, we know it's late, and you know it's late. Let's stop talking about it, ok?

    We're not going to debate development with you. Our job is to deliver the best game we can. Your job is to buy it or not, based on many factors. We don't have to listen to you telling us how we're doing everything wrong, in the process. We're old and stuck in our ways, and you won't change our minds, so just accept that.
    Edited by 1 at 09/04/04 @ 10:03

  • #101 8 years ago

    gunna wunna shunna

    IT'S COMING FOR YOU!

  • rebelradiouk #102 8 years ago

    i cant believe how old this all is now i remember getting a demo disk with pc zone years ago now with a video of duke nukem and max payne i was so impressed with the look of both games max came and gone max payne 2 came and gone................then i gave up, used to check the site like once a month 2 c if anything was new then offcourse it will be done when its done, not exactly possitive but hey lets hope they can make a game which can go against hmmmmm half life 2 doom 3 chaser and aything else in the pipeline but i guess those games will be forgotten by 2025 when duke nukem forever is released