No level cap in next Fallout? News

hell yeah, sound good to me. now give me a release date

Fuck sake but this is exactly the lesson learned from fallout 1!!!!!!!!!!!!

hopefully lesson number 2 is "hire some voice actors" ;)! The game, whilst ace, would become so much better with a little talent in the writing/acting department. People said the same after Oblivion mind you so maybe Bethesda don't want to learn that particular lesson.

The abrupt ending was certainly a bit gash as well, good to see that's going to remedied for the next one.

How about balancing your game so player doesn't have maxed levels after checking a quater of the world :D

How about, don't make ridiculous statements about there being 'hundreds of endings'. I'd have been happy with one proper ending.

Fallout 4? when's that due ? (btw, I have read the bulletin, just wondering)

Trouble is, at level 20 you're pretty much unstoppable anyway.

How about not having scaling monsters, so that you actually feel like your getting stronger!

Considering that Elder Scrolls 4 isnt due to 2010/2011 I'd guess fallout will be a few years after that.

So presumably they're working on a patch right now for 3 to turn off the level-cap... yeah thought not - buy our sequel kiddies.

"Considering that Elder Scrolls 4 isnt due to 2010/2011 I'd guess fallout will be a few years after that. "

Sorry to be pedantic, but I think you mean TES 5...

I'd also not mind the assets not being that depressingly ruined all the time. Look at the Bikini Atoll, nothing but a Moon crater 50 years ago and now it's a radioactive jungle.

Who cares about endless levels, all it breeds are opponents having your level +1 to keep it interesting. If only numbers decide, the game will feel boring.

I would rather see the game rewarding players who aim themselves. It can't be that I do have a 95% chance for a headshot in VAC and miss every self-aiming headshot due to an ungodly amount of weapon imprecision outside of VAC. The game was supposed to be for VAC users AND fps fans. Shooting without VAC is nothing but a colossal waste of ammo. You miss most shots you aligned correctly.

They didnt learn anything, they just ignored it for Oblivion. Both games have a level cap and ends the game abruptly.

why would they change now?

have scaling enemies

after a few weeks You'll have to fight godzilla

Woops yeah i ment tes 5 i forgot about daggerfall

@munki83

Uhm.. You mean Oblivion...

@Eraysor
"Trouble is, at level 8 you're pretty much unstoppable anyway."

There, fixed that for ya.

Yos!

@4th Variety: There is a reward for shooting outside of VATS - less degradation of your weapon; and if you do want something that hits where you want it to when manually shooting go and find Lincoln's Repeater Rifle which has a spread of 0.

4allout

i'd just concentrate on making the game fun

in all the fuss over VATS, story, graphics etc, i personally felt they left out FUN

The game was SOOOO dull, and is one of the few games i never finished

How about unlocking the level cap on Fallout 3 in the meantime? Or at least letting PS3 players get to level 30?

They didnt learn anything, they just ignored it for Oblivion. Both games have a level cap and ends the game abruptly.

Oblivion doesn't end abruptly, it lets you continue playing indefinitely...

Anyway, yay for no level caps. I never understood what purpose they served.

Other lessons to be learned: fun, challenging combat; animation; voice acting; writing of dialogue, plot, and character; deep, intelligent roleplaying; non-broken character development.

What is wrong with level caps? Why are people so against them?

Baldurs Gate had a level cap, and it was one greatest RPGs of its day, same with many other games at that time.

If you had no level cap then perks would lose their value, as you'd eventually be able to acquire them all with no level cap. The only thing wrong with levelling system in FO3 was that you needed too few XP to get to the next level. If it had taken longer to level up, people might not have moaned about it so much.

There's also nothing wrong with making games end, though Bethesda totally missed the point of the suppoed myriad of moral choices affecting your world, but never mind.

Seriously though, level caps are where it's at.

this will be due 2012 at the earliest i take it and after elder scrolls 5 - now thats the game im really excited about

@Smuggo

"Baldurs Gate had a level cap, and it was one greatest RPGs of its day, same with many other games at that time."

I smell a red herring.

Was Baldur's Gate great BECAUSE it had a level cap, or did its greatness (for other reasons) mean errors like level capping could be overlooked?

Must admit the scaling is bit dodgy in Fallout....im level 13 and have been unstoppable for most of the play time....though ive mainly been doing side missions....not even gone to the GNR building to see three dogs yet!. Does it get harder? Toughest opponent ive had so far is Behemoth tho the fat man soon took care of him! :)

How about having some actual consequences to your actions? I was looking forward to seeing what would happen after the whole quest with Harold but no, we were rewarded with some non-specific footage.

I miss the days of the epic RPG's like Might and Magic and Wizardry. They managed to pack more varied locations and monsters, spells and items, classes and questlines in one zone than the whole of Fallout and Oblivion combined.

The release of infinite Fallout...the day I say goodbye to sleep.

C'mon, the low level cap is obviously a way to sell DLC.

Thanks Zuljin ^_^

"Was Baldur's Gate great BECAUSE it had a level cap, or did its greatness (for other reasons) mean errors like level capping could be overlooked?"

Neither really. The level cap stopped you from becoming so powerful that you could defeat every enemy with ease, and they increased it through the add-on packs and sequel, so it all seemed like a continuous game. The system worked really well.

But Like I said, FO3 made it too easy to level up. You do a major sidequest, hack a few computers and pick a few locks, kill some bad guys and boom you've levelled up. The gap between levels is far too narrow, I felt like I was levelling up all the time. In Baldurs Gate you would have to do the entire main story and a good chunk of the side quests and other exploring to hit the level cap in any given game, which is probably why it worked so well.

regarding the invincible stuff, it's true... I keep thinking I can rampage all of the time, but there are 2 problems with this approach.
1. I can't carry enough shit, so I constantly have to go back to megatown to drop my crap off and then repair it, or repair it while I am on the road. but, I can onle repair so much (once perfect it's not repairable). I only carry 2 weapons anyway, laser rifle and minigun ;). but all my ammo. all my drugs, need them dugs man!

2. Washington, that place (capitol building there abouts) is quite difficult. again, mostly due to the fact that I can't leave anything behind. I am a horder, but only in games. Minimalist at home.

can't wait for the next Diablo ;)

todd howard is a moron. fallout 2 had a level cap and was fine. the level is just a number - all players want is a meaningful sense of progression to their character whilst maintaining the sense that you're just a normal guy.

the real problem is that about 20 hours into the game you can take on multiple super mutants (which, recall, are supposed to be genetically modified and superior to humans in every way) because you are crack shot, whilst also being an expert in lock picking, computers, and rocket science. the levelling is broken, but it's nothing to do with level caps.

critics love it, and people will pay money to get to "level 30". i'm in the wrong trade.

the_dudefather: have scaling enemies

penhalion: How about not having scaling monsters, so that you actually feel like your getting stronger!

michaelius: How about balancing your game so player doesn't have maxed levels after checking a quater of the world

Doctor_What: How about unlocking the level cap on Fallout 3 in the meantime?

Smuggo: If you had no level cap then perks would lose their value, as you'd eventually be able to acquire them all with no level cap.

Make your minds up.

I wanna make sure I'm clear on this - are all you people playin it on the HARDEST difficulty? Cos if ur not, you can't really say you've become too powerful too early. I've been playing Fallout since day one, bought number 2 on it's release date, and I'm well happy with 3.

On the hardest difficulty, even maxed out I'd still occasionally get my ass handed to me by mutants. In my current game I'm level 12 and although I'm pretty badass, I still get in over my head sometimes. I think the challenge is just right if you set the difficulty accordingly. Ammo and Caps are usually pretty scarce, depending on what weapons you use (I don't even carry any 10mm weapons, I just hunt down magnum and sniper ammo).

I think the level cap is good, and it's a good thing that the DLC increases it slightly. Without a cap, you just become too powerful and start sympathising with Umbra (hidden char in Morrowind who has beaten everyone and is too powerful and so is bored of life).

I just hope there's more DLC on the way after March. Like, Knights of the Nine and Shivering Isles sized DLC.

I would rather have a good ending than a load of shit that goes on forever, or an ending that happens so fast that it doesn't even register.

Frankly, I would have hoped, like other posters, that the lessons learned might have been more of the 'let's not have the same three twats play all of the characters once we've spent all the money on Liam Neeson' variety. Honestly, the writing and performances in this were so crap it comes close to ruining a great experience.

Todd Howard wants working over until he's learned his lesson properly. Anyone who lets a performance like Moira's through the door needs a good, hard kick in the testies.

@bratmandu

Did you actually read my post or just quote it for the sake of it?

I said a lack of level cap would devalue perks, which has bugger all to do with the difficulty setting.

The problem with FO3 is that level ups happen too often, rather than being well spaced out. So after 10 hours of playing you've got all the perks you're going to get and the enemies aren't going to get any harder. This problem is actually made even worse at the highest difficulty as you gain more XP than you do at normal difficulty, meaning you level up even faster. Also, efficient levelling and perk selection makes even very hard mode quite easy by the time you hit level 12.

The simple fact is the levelling system is broken, but in different ways to Oblivion.

"Todd Howard wants working over until he's learned his lesson properly. Anyone who lets a performance like Moira's through the door needs a good, hard kick in the testies."

Moira was a slightly needy and insecure, but entheusiastic character. The sort of person who is okay in small doses but starts to grate after a while.

This was portrayed perfectly by the voice actor, and Moira is one of the most distinctive characters in the game because of it.

Surely such realism and attention to character should be applauded?

@ Smuggo

Yea I read it

I wasn't referring to your comments when I mentioned difficulty, I just wanted to check if the people who think it's too easy are using the right difficulty - first time through I didn't even notice there was an option for difficulty and played through on normal.

I agree that lack of a level cap would devalue perks, and of course efficient or power-levelling will make it easier around level 12 or so, but I pick the stats and perks I wanna pick, depending on the character I'm playing. I don't want to just power my way through the game.

In my current game, I'm exploring perks that I never used before such as animal friend which is pretty cool and I just picked both lawbringer and contract killer.

I don't think I'm able to judge if the levelling is broken or not until I get past level 20 in the new DLC. I don't think it is at the minute. If you're out to level up quickly then I think you can, but I play it at my own pace and in my own style, and I enjoy it.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Fallout 3, and Oblivion, and Morrowind, but I still realise that Bethesda have absolutely no idea about how to make an appropriate levelling system and balance their games. They basically spend too much time developing and not enough time playtesting, and they've always done that.

Bethesda's games tend to be more like action adventures than RPGs, which is why I don't rate the RPG elements of their games (ie the levelling system).

I was at level 20 when I was only halfway through the game... way too easy.

Another lesson I hope they learned is: perform proper beta testing before releasing the game, way too many bugs.

Fallout 4 sounds great, but Elder Scrolls V first please!

Yeah, I have 260 G in Fallout 3 and I'm verging on getting 18. level already.

Well they said of Oblivion, when someone asked about how it was possible to get too powerful in Morrowind, and would this be an issue in Oblivion - that yes - if you grind and put in a lot of work, you can get ultra powerful, as people who put that effort in deserve a reward for it, but if you play it at your own pace, then you will also be rewarded with a good challenge.

I think as far as levelling goes, they seem to try and get it right by tinkering with it on each RPG they make. Which is a better way to reach a good balance than just copying the way other games do it. I prefer Bethesda's type of RPG to archaic-turn-based-JRPGS and hardcore d&d of baldur's gate and diablo.

No no no.

The problem isn't entirely the level cap. It's that, by the time you reach it - hell, even by level 15 or so - basically no fight in the game is a challenge. Switch to VATS, headshot headshot, repeat for as many enemies as there are.

High level encounters are needed.

Depends on your preference really, but Bethesda tend to do RPG-Lite, and I prefer the D&D type stuff. Pity there haven't been any good D&D style RPGs for nearly a decade.

That's cos it's the 21st Century and genres are becoming blended, blame Deus Ex. If I had enough time to play D&D style rpgs, I'd have bought Hero Quest, not an Xbox.

i don't think it being RPG lite should necessarily break the levelling. system shock 2 only had a few RPG elements but still knew to keep challenging the player. i don't understand why bethesda have such a problem with showing players fights they can't win. that whole mechanic of wandering into a hellish area, getting beasted and then going back and building up your skills to face it later, are a great element of all exploration games, never mind RPGs.

the thing is, FO3 is hardest in the first 5 hours (after you leave the fault), and then gets progressively easier. it wouldn't be so bad but those first 5 hours were brilliant - so immersive and rewarding.

So no more Elder Scrolls then???

I really can't get away with Fallout.