ICO is not a game, says Ueda

By Ellie Gibson Published 9 March, 2006

But Shadow of the Colossus is.

Is ICO a videogame? "Yes, you idiot" would be most people's response - but the man who created it would disagree.

In an interview with Wired.com, Fumito Ueda said: "[ICO] isn't a videogame - a conventional videogame has things like a life meter or other icons on the screen. ICO doesn't have these things."

At the start of ICO's development period, Ueda explained, "I thought that the games industry had a negative image for many people. If I called my work a videogame, people would think, 'Well, this is just a videogame, so I don't want to play it.'"

"When we said, ICO is not a conventional videogame title, we set limitations on ourselves for the development of the game. We had to eliminate everything that made it look like a videogame."

But Ueda's next game - Shadow of the Colossus - does feature strength gauges, health meters and the like. So does that mean SotC is a videogame?

"For our next game, we wanted to remove those artificial limitations that we placed on ourselves," Ueda said.

"We wanted to just make a game that was fun. If a limitation made the game less fun, we weren't going to restrict ourselves. And yet, while we were developing Colossus, it became similar to the ICO style. We don't know why."

Of course, the big question we all want to know the answer to is what's next. Ueda declined to answer, though - he simply turned to SotC producer Kenji Kaido and said: "Yeah, what are we going to do?"

"I couldn't tell you," Kaido replied.

"Fumito has a couple of ideas, but we don't even know what the platform is going to be. I want to create a game that takes full advantage of the format it's on. If we made a PS3 or PSP game, we want it to take special advantage of the abilities of that format."

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (44) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • the_dudefather #1 6 years ago

    so...by the same rules the king kong game isnt a game either because it hasnt got icons?

  • Daikon #2 6 years ago

    That's right. This was 2001. It was still cool to call it "interactive multimedia". It's not a game!

  • alimokrane #3 6 years ago

    Huh? What the .... That's what happens to someone when they think they are way better than others. have at least a decent bit of modesty for god's sake!

    EDIT: another thing he should have just said it's an UNCONVENTIONAL GAME but not referring to it as not a game at all
    Edited by 1 at 09/03/06 @ 11:46

  • Macross #4 6 years ago

    he might be great at making great games...

    but man, he sounds so damn concieted i almost want to punch him in the face :p

  • vames #5 6 years ago

    Eh? This is fucking stupid, these japanese developers always have some crap to say. What will we ever do without them lol

  • --Ad-- #6 6 years ago

    @ Macross - Your anger has been bubbling up recently man.. Take a deep breath and relax. Then go play a game with ninjas and pirates ;-)

  • vames #7 6 years ago

    Eh? This is fucking stupid, these japanese developers always have some crap to say. What will we ever do without them lol

  • megastar #8 6 years ago

    There is no spoon.

  • drumbaby #9 6 years ago

    It's not a game, but still, great gameplay.

  • geepersd #10 6 years ago

    I see the point, but it still sounds silly - and it turns out tennis isn't a game either then... or dominoes, or well games

  • Blerk #11 6 years ago

    If Ico isn't a game, I wish more people would stop producing games.

  • neilch #12 6 years ago

    @geepersd Tennis is a sport :-)

  • Corvus #13 6 years ago

    By this reasoning, Black and White isn't a real game either...

    Maybe the man has a point ;-)

  • OnlyMe #14 6 years ago

    Nothing's appearently a game nowadays. I think this is bad for the image of the industry. When they get embarressed by calling it a game, you don't exactly act as a good representative for the gaming business.

  • jack_klugman #15 6 years ago

    Lost in translation.

  • Moonprince #16 6 years ago

    ..And also people towilling to jump on others and call them rubbish

  • tenma #17 6 years ago

    Why can't something be both a videogame *and* art? What's with this incessant 'either/or' mentality?

  • el_pollo_diablo #18 6 years ago

    From reading the Wired article I think Ueda does think of ICO as a game, just not a traditional 'video' game.

    "The big challenge of Ico was that it was my first game, and I was inexperienced. And so was the team; they didn't have the experience necessary to create this kind of unique title. It isn't a video game -- a conventional video game has things like a life meter or other icons on the screen. Ico doesn't have these things."

    I also think that the Wired journalist hasn't even played Shadow of the Colossus:

    "One of Ueda's signatures is dispensing with game chestnuts like meters and levels, instead showing players' progress by personifying the information in the characters' personality or movement. In Shadow of the Colossus, for instance, the scale of the massive beasts that must be slayed shows the "level" reached by the player."

    Yeah, that and the life bar that sits at the top of the screen...

    (edit: actually, I might have misread that last bit)
    Edited by 1 at 09/03/06 @ 12:46

  • Rambaldi #19 6 years ago

    Ueda: I salute your games almost as much as that large penis on your head.

  • Razz #20 6 years ago

    SOmeone needs to lay off the crack :/

  • Rambaldi #21 6 years ago

    This post isn't a post. It's really a deconstructive mixture of metaphor, shape and concept that, because of the boundaries that I'm trying to challenge and yet work within, transcends commonly accepted views of peer-to-peer interraction.
    Edited by 1 at 09/03/06 @ 12:53

  • Scientist #22 6 years ago

    "Why can't something be both a videogame *and* art? What's with this incessant 'either/or' mentality?"

    Who said anything about art?

  • smoison #23 6 years ago

    Hmm. I see it as yes its a game. And like all games, its Art too.

  • Scientist #24 6 years ago

    "And like all games, its Art too."

    There's no verb in your sentence.

  • Teeth #25 6 years ago

    Art too dee too

  • Psi #26 6 years ago

    ico is not a game, its a pizza box! now it's a firetruck! now it's a tuba!

    anyone get the impression they are sitting around like the muppit babies stoned outta their heads not making much sence?

  • space_ace #27 6 years ago

    another week, another ico story. great :)

  • tengu #28 6 years ago

    Not a game? That'll be why it plays in my lovely 'games' console then. Those wacky devs and the things they say, eh?
    Edited by 1 at 09/03/06 @ 15:23

  • Scientist #29 6 years ago

    At the SCEE pre-E3 event last year the boss of SCE UK said that SCEE was not about "games" it was about "computer entertainment".
    How about calling a spade a spade.

  • kangarootoo #30 6 years ago

    "a conventional videogame has things like a life meter or other icons on the screen. ICO doesn't have these things"

    So isn't he actually saying, based on his owns words, that ICO isn't a "conventional" videogame. I'd probably agree with that, but saying its not a game at all is just high brow bollox.

    Dictionary time.
    "An activity providing entertainment or amusement"

    He might be a design genius, but that doesn't make him immune from talking knackers very occasionally.

  • ProfessorLesser #31 6 years ago

    Why does he feel the need to differentiate between games and... ICO?

    1) He's wrong.

    2) We all know what he means without the need for him to explain it to us badly.

    I half agree with frod... take away the environment and the atmosphere, and you're not left with a lot. But I wouldn't say that those things "make up" for it... I would say they augment it. It's still a great game, and it still has great gameplay, even if it's a direct result of how the environment makes you feel rather than the actual 'fun' you derive from it.

  • BootLace #32 6 years ago

    @frod: You can distill any game down to just being a case of push the right button at the right time (or similar), but does that make all games inherently the same (or clones of forerunners)? I guess it's arguably so, but not necessarily sensible/practical.

    I feel Ico and Tomb Raider share a common heritage in many ways, going back to Arcade/Action Adventures of the 8bit era. Essentially platformers with puzzles. Tomb Raider shined as being one of the first to do it well in 3D (for the time), whereas Ico stands as probably being the best executed example of the genre. Ico seemed more puzzle orientated which favoured my preferences, the atmosphere was just a bonus.

    Still not sure how you can claim Ico's a poor tomb raider clone (removing graphics/camera). The puzzles are slightly deeper, player control is better, hazards had warning signs; the only thing I can think of being weaker is the combat, but that wasn't the focus of either game.

  • Bezzy #33 6 years ago

    The basic mistake Ueda has made here is to try and hijack the use of a term which is in common use (or perhaps he's being quoted out of context?). Ico may not be conventional, but it's not magically "not a game" just because he says so. Same deal when Raph Koster was saying that "MMOs aren't video games". If it looks like a game, and feels like a game, then chances are, people are going to call it a game.

    There's nothing in Ico that demonstrates that it's not-a-game. Therefore, this is an empty statement. I worry that it stinks of snobbery and/or insecurity about the perception of videogames as some kind of ghetto medium. It's great to aspire to make fine games, but feeling the need to distance yourself from other games incase your out-of-touch relatives think that you make "those murder simulators"... I don't get it.

    Just for clarity's sake, let me list some things that are not videogames:

    "Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man"
    "Pi"
    "Song 2"

    I fucking love his games, but it's not up to him to decide whether his works are games, or stories, or works of art. That's for public perception to decide. Personally, I feel like both Ico and SotC are art, AND games. But that's just me personally.

  • Shadar #34 6 years ago

    I see that people here can't bear to think that other people just *might* possibly be a lot better than themselves.

    Fumito Ueda is, along with Keita Takahashi, one of the most important figures in videogaming today. If they say that they set out to work outside of general conventions, to create something unique, then who the flying fuck are you guys to berate them for it?

    "Oh, that's what happens when someone thinks he's better than others! Have some modesty!"
    And those are the words of an insecure, constrained person if I ever heard them.

    "He's so conceited I want to punch him in his face."
    Yeah, let's see you make something that'll change the face of videogaming. Please.

    "These Japanese developers always have some crap to say."
    Oh, and by the Lord does the same apply to you. Only no-one listens.

    These threads really piss me off sometimes. Get some perspective, people.

  • Rambaldi #35 6 years ago

    "who the flying fuck are you guys to berate them for it?"

    And who the flying fuck are you to berate them for berating them?

  • chavatar #36 6 years ago

    How about calling a spade a spade.

    I'm no aficionado of fustian, but the compass of "games" extends beyond the computer, while a perusal of the comments on Electroplankton tells me that not everything that comes on a game cartridge and is 'played' on a game console can usefully be considered a game.

    oh, and there's no question mark in your sentence ;p
    Edited by 2 at 10/03/06 @ 09:55

  • Shadar #37 6 years ago

    Rambaldi: Someone who very occasionally gets really pissed off when people fail to acknowledge that lack of modesty not necessarily translates into arrogance.

  • DeveloperPump #38 6 years ago

    A game is defined as having rules as opposed to a toy which is something without rules and has unguided play.

    ICO has rules. i.e. you have to play with it in a specifically directed manner and there is a directed flow of play.

    Therefore ICO is a game.

    This article is not news. It is a big mealy pudding of an article, traditionally called filler, designed to increase footfall on the site when it's a slow news day.

    Further debate is not required.

    That is all.

    ;}
    Edited by 1 at 10/03/06 @ 10:04

  • Rambaldi #39 6 years ago

    Yes it is...JUST BECAUSE (I can't bear to see you end this thread in such triumphant fashion;)

    /chortles
    Edited by 1 at 10/03/06 @ 12:08

  • DeveloperPump #40 6 years ago

    lolz

  • chavatar #41 6 years ago

    Therefore ICO is not a game

    Love the syllogism, but your appraisal of the value of the article is pure opinion. I, for one, would prefer to hear about Ueda's thoughts on his own creations (even if ICO patently is a game) than any number of drab topics which get covered in the gaming news.

  • DeveloperPump #42 6 years ago

    >Love the syllogism,

    Man, that's a great word. I'm going to use it alot more now. Thanks for that. And I'm not being sarcastic, I really mean it. I like good words like that. From now on, I'll use it anispeptically.

    >but your appraisal of the value of the article is pure opinion.

    Of course it was pure opinion. That's the nature of forum posts. tbh, it was a slow work day for me and that thread was winding down, so I thought I'd just inject a little bit of life into it by being obviously facetious.

    Ho hum....

  • chavatar #43 6 years ago

    Sorry, guess like Rambaldi I couldn't let such a triumphantly *right* post finish the thread ;). Great post. And Peace.

  • miller343434 #44 5 years ago

    @Scientist "And like all games, its Art too."

    There's no verb in your sentence. "
    Do you not recognise "is" as a verb?