New Xbox 360 "doesn't make sense"

By Robert Purchese Published 19 June, 2009

But hardware tweaks do, sources say.

The confusion surrounding 'Xbox Natal' continues, as retailer ShopTo, analyst Michael Pachter and an industry-leading developer close to Microsoft all sound off on the suggestion that Microsoft will refresh the Xbox hardware line in autumn 2010.

"I believe what they're going to do is bundle Natal with the existing Xbox 360 hardware," said our developer source. "Cosmetic changes: sure, that's possible, but I wouldn't get to married to that, because [Microsoft] have a lot of money invested and they've already gone through cost reductions on the existing Xbox. They fixed their Red Ring of Death problem, they're on their fourth or fifth motherboard now."

"Colour schemes and stuff are more likely. Maybe they'll get the transformer inside the machine - I doubt they'll resize the machine, that seems unlikely. If they did that and people caught wind of it - they'd stop buying [existing Xbox 360s]."

"I'd say it was 100 per cent likely they will be bundling the camera with the system," the source added. "When they said, 'It's the new launch', 'that's what they're telling developers."

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer put a spanner in the works overnight by announcing a new Xbox 360 with a built-in camera for a 2010 launch. He may simply have been referring to an Xbox 360-plus-Natal bundle, however, and used simple, engaging phrases to excite a room of non-videogame savvy execs.

Igor Cipolletta, boss of retailer ShopTo, agrees that a meaningful change the Xbox 360 is unlikely, but thinks Microsoft may take the opportunity to tweak the hardware.

"I don't think there will be any drastic changes to the hardware," Cipolletta told Eurogamer. "I think Microsoft will use this as a chance to release a bigger hard-drive, especially after all the new services announced at E3. The extra space would be a welcome addition."

Michael Pachter, videogame analyst for Wedbush Morgan, echoes the point: "There may be a new Xbox 360 SKU with Natal, but no new CPU-GPU combination. The box will run the same software as before, and Natal games will have a different control scheme - nothing more sinister or deviant than that," he told us.

"It would be a good time for Microsoft to add a DVR and an HDTV tuner, maybe roll out IPTV, but I don't think the brains of the box change much."

"All of this would be sensible for Microsoft if it intends to further strengthen Xbox Live and to help give Wii owners a reason to 'upgrade' in the face of the launch of the Wii Plus (HD)," Pachter added. "Wii Plus is coming and Microsoft believes this as well, and they will do what they can to maintain market share."

Rumours of a new Xbox 360 began last weekend, and have been allowed to run all week unchecked. Microsoft bigwigs have weighed in with non-committal comment, leaving the possibility of a new SKU alight.

"Having three consoles on the market is enough without adding a fourth," ShopTo's Cipolletta explained. "Maybe this will replace the [Xbox 360] Elite, as that seems to be the only one without any recent upgrades; it makes sense to bundle Project Natal with it to creating the new top tier hardware package."

"It doesn't make sense to launch a new console. Natal is the new console," said our developer source, adopting Shane Kim's "Xbox 360 relaunch" stance.

"It wouldn't make sense to do new hardware because they've already put into that box. In other words, that camera has some chips in it, it's not just a dumb camera. That's why it can track your body, can track all your bones, do all the stuff that the other [cameras] can't do.

"Natal will help them get so much more out of the console than they have now. That's really the truth of it."

However it arrives, Project Natal will have repercussions for the entire videogame industry. Head over to our Project Natal gamepage for all related goings-on (and pictures and videos) so far.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (46) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Psychotext #1 3 years ago

    I think anyone with more than a few brain cells to rub together realises that there wouldn't be any point in MS releasing a slightly overclocked version of the 360. Devs would just ignore it to concentrate on the much larger standard 360 user base.

  • kingcrude #2 3 years ago

    wii plus. did i miss something?

  • sneetch #3 3 years ago

    My prediction is that it'll simply be an elite with Natal bundled, that is all. The MS guys more or less said as much. There will be no changes to the base console design and it's obvious they wont integrate the Natal widget into the console as the camera will need to be placed on or near your TV and I don't know about you but I couldn't balance a 360 on my TV. :)

    Feel free to knock an article out of this post Eurogamer. :p

    Edit:I meant "Natal widget into the console" not "into the camera"
    Edited by 1 at 19/06/09 @ 14:45

  • vegard #4 3 years ago

    @kingcrude

    i guess we both did...

  • wizbob #5 3 years ago

    I hope it's 'wii plus some new games'

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #6 3 years ago

    Sigh..when is the next decent game coming out?

  • BillyBrush #7 3 years ago

    360 with natal built into it.

    TBH i bet they are PISSED about the circus games news sites are managing to turn this into...

  • alimokrane #8 3 years ago

    Cant this stupid rumour die already ? Anyone expecting a new console is a down right idiot!

    All SKUs of the Xbox 360 will be available with Natal bundled in. It will also be available separately for people who already own a 360 to get. That's as FAR as it will go. People should be speculating about the price of Natal and not some nonsense new console.

    Bundling Natal (which is aimed at casuals) ONLY with the Elite is just as stupid.

  • kingcrude #9 3 years ago

    ooh yeah a price. Hmmm. Given how much plastic instruments cost, this could be interesting.

  • Hypercube #10 3 years ago

    Where's the Negotiator? I need to read some over-blown Natal hype. I'm having a very dull day.

  • Doctor_What #11 3 years ago

    "However it arrives, Project Natal will have repercussions for the entire videogame industry."

    Balls, I suspect, but I could be wrong.

  • VicViper #12 3 years ago

    I'll try and help hypercube, cough, cough...

    Natal does not mearly see your frail human bones, its see in dimensions far beyond your mortal eyes. Your soul is but an open book, that is how it percives your weak emotions with it cold glass glaze... how its stares!

    It will be an end to the world [ed- of video games] as we know it and usher in a new age of gaming that only its skynet like intelligence can possibly comprehend...

    The bundle with problay be 250-350 I'm guessing, seems that would make sense, what was the elite bundle when that came out?
    Edited by 2 at 19/06/09 @ 15:24

  • Xerx3s #13 3 years ago

    A new, smaller machine that doesn't sound like a hurricane and doesn't break down every 2 seconds + the natal thing is all they need to do really.

    It will attract new people and will be enough for a good portion of the existing fanbase to shell out some money for a new machine.

  • chrisjm #14 3 years ago

    its like saying ps3 is now ps 10 because of the different hardware packs they have had...

  • HolyJebus #15 3 years ago

    "Maybe they'll get the transformer inside the machine"

    Didn't they do that already in Transformers 1?

    BOOOYAAAAA.

  • lucky_jim #16 3 years ago

    "... wouldn't get to married to that..."

    "Too", damn it, "too"! Come on EG, what's going on, between this and the loose/lose debacle I'm starting to lose faith in your standards!

  • maximusfarticus #17 3 years ago

    @Hypercube

    Negotiator will be here in a bit, he's just letting farticusmaximus rim his arse and then they're gonna fuck each other and then they'll be on.

  • GreyBeard #18 3 years ago

    I honestly believe Natal is going to be a massive failure at retail. Hardcore gamers will have no use for it, and MS track record on aiming products at the casual market is frankly abysmal.

    A minor tweak to the hardware that improves capabilities going forwards but retains 100% backwards compatibility would be a far more productive approach.

  • kingcrude #19 3 years ago

    i just want a 360 that doesnt freeze slightly inbetween sending messages and the like

  • ShinMegami08 #20 3 years ago

    don't understand Microsoft. They are in a good second position, but seem to be very desperate in trying to reach new market shares.
    Balmer's statement that a "new" xbox360 is coming out next year will make potential new buyers wait till then.

    Prefer Sonys approach: They keep it cool and stay sharp on their "ten year cycle". They listen to criticism, and correct slightly their business plan after it, but they don't throw it totally down.

    Microsoft seems for me to be very nervous about the WiiHD. Shouldn't be.

  • BadBoyBonner #21 3 years ago

    I fail to see why so many struggle with the idea of a few more MHz from a chip - PSP when launched ran at 222mhz and was upped to 333mhz.

    Same with iPhone/iTouch/Gamecude/Wii - and nearly every PC CPU & GFX card since time began etc, etc.

    As for the launch price point, I feel it highly unlikely the bundled Natal/360 package will be at current Elite prices. I expect the package to be almost the same (or very close) to the Wii price point (which proved such a success) i.e. £179.99.

    I'd expect Natal to come in around to £59.99 and $99 in the US as a standalone - with a game set along the lines of Wii Sports but also with reworked demo's of old games with Natal controls i.e. Burnout.

    The Elite may well be the upgraded console - but all will use the new chipset with the "normal" 360 probably underclocked to current speeds running with less aggressive cooling and or a smaller design. Will they put the Natal CPU in the new 360? Only if it is cheaper to do so is probably the answer to that one.

    The Elite probably will run faster - no doubt resulting in "underground" flashing of 360 Core/Arcade Bios to gain Elite speeds, or some such. Perhaps only the Elite will offer 3D TV support - or perhaps they all will - but purchasing the Elite with a higher speed will make much more sense when your system is trying to render the same scene twice for you.

    Or perhaps it only speeds up if 3D mode or 1080p mode is selected?

    Being able to run components faster is effectively "free" as a by-product of reducing the fabrication size. It would also make for more compelling backwards compatibility (not that that would be a huge sales point).

    In fact some of the components in the original 360 are becoming so outdated it is now cheaper to install more advanced versions - which seems to be the case with the new 512mb nand http://ww w.engadget.com/2009/06/17/xbox-...

  • IneptPercy #22 3 years ago

    Its all down to the marketing, if Microsoft throw a lot of money at this and shove it in your face then people will notice and dare a say it may steal some wii owners.

  • man.the.king #23 3 years ago

    "Wii Plus is coming and Microsoft believes this as well, and they will do what they can to maintain market share."

    I don't think the majority of the Wii demographic is the kind that periodically updates or upgrades their Consoles by buying new ones :)

  • makeamazing #24 3 years ago

    I agree with Gaz40, I actually think this is a messed up concerted effort to keep Natal/Xbox in the press. I suspect there will be alot of back tracking as they will be worried people will stop buying Xbox's as there is a new console on the way. Which isnt a new console... ah you know :D

    To the person who said Natal would be a total sales disaster.. I really dont know, people will buy any old crap.. I didnt think people would go and buy the DSi in such large numbers... i really didnt.

    I do think this as the article suggests will be a good way of replacing the Elite, but then wont the cost be just as prohibitive as the PS3 (perhaps Sony can they say MS should reduce the price)....

    Me wonders how many more Xbox/Natal PR news items there will be between now and late next year....

  • man.the.king #25 3 years ago

    @BadBoyBonner

    "PSP when launched ran at 222mhz and was upped to 333mhz"

    As far as I know, the PSP was always capable of 333 MHz, but had previously locked out that capability, and later unlocked it via a firmware update. Don't ask me why they originally did that, as I do not understand why they did that. They have done something similar with the PS3 as well, keeping one SPU off-limits, but for the life of me, I cannot comprehend why :)

  • BadBoyBonner #26 3 years ago

    man.the.king

    I think Sony did it last minute to head off the massive battery drain comparisons with the DS - I remember the guys/gals who had just put the finishing touches to WipEout were severely pissed off as the framrate nosedived accordingly.

    Point that I am making is that production has advanced considerably in 4 years - where we are at the point that the tech inside the 360 is so old that there's fewer and fewer places designed to mass produce it.

    The new chips can be run cooler, faster and cost less to make - seems a no brainer.

  • Sar #27 3 years ago

    "Microsoft has flat-out denied that it will release an all-new Xbox 360 console in 2010. "There will be no new console," Microsoft product manager Aaron Greenberg informed Kotaku. "We're not going to be launching a new console any time soon."

    Greenberg cited a belief that Ballmer was referring to the upcoming Project Natal add-on for Xbox 360 yesterday, stressing that "we're barely halfway through this generation...we're happy with the Xbox 360, so there are no changes from that standpoint."

    "What we're doing that's unique is, instead of asking you to invest in a new generation of hardware, a generation that's already well established, extending the experience even longer by adding this whole new category of experiences with Project Natal."

    He further noted that there is no announced release window for Project Natal, but admitted that Microsoft has "looked at" bundling Natal with Xbox 360s in the future."

    Sorted.

  • The_vorlon_man #28 3 years ago

    Tits. That's all.

  • Les #29 3 years ago

    "Don't ask me why they originally did that, as I do not understand why they did that."

    To improve battery life. The higher speed costs more energy and drains the battery quicker.

    "They have done something similar with the PS3 as well, keeping one SPU off-limits, but for the life of me, I cannot comprehend why :)"

    That is to increase the yield (usable Cells) from the production process. Especially early on in the life cycle of a new chip, the manufacturing process isn't that good yet. So there are chips on which one of the SPUs doesn't work. To reduce waste (and thus cost) Sony decided do only use 7 SPUs out of 8. For the same reason some LCD manufacturers allow a certain number of dead pixels in an LCD screen instead of enforcing 0% defects.

    If I'm not mistaken, when companies started producing LCDs (not as TVs yet but primarily as small displays) yields were lower than 20% (so out of every 100 items manufactured, over 80 could be thrown away).

  • malexous #30 3 years ago

    I'm intrigued by this "Wii Plus". Please tell me more. 2 years until release would be perfect for me.

  • betahoven #31 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:36:16 17-12-2011

  • Daikon #32 3 years ago

    Natal = hype

    I'd much have a 360 which didn't sound like a vacuum cleaner.

  • hiruu #33 3 years ago

    This makes sense...M$ isn;t going to launch a new console to compete for developers attention and resources, but instead will tweak the 360, and relaunch it with Natal. The device will come with tech to ease the strain on the CPU/GPU, but even with that said, I still think M$ will launch with the 45nm chipset, boost the storage options, and add more memory to strenghen the console. They will launch the console for $399, with a game...ala wii sports, and probably launch the stand-alone Natal camera for $99 or less (Wii Fit price modeling).

  • Rack #34 3 years ago

    A smaller box with integrated power and Wifi would be the ideal, something to make it look small and functional like the Wii appears to be.

  • The_vorlon_man #35 3 years ago

    Natal could either be the next big thing, or a new slightly more fun Eyetoy clone.

    To stop it being the latter, MS need to spend a huge ammount trying to ensure there are decent, must have games that make good use of it in ways that make sense. Otherwise, at best, it will be a good thing for party games, and at worst, a afterthought like Shake/waggle in so many Wii and Ps3 games.

    MS also need it to be cheap. How cheap? Enough to make it a no brainer purchase for those who arent decided yet.

    As I said in another thread, one way of achieving wold domination is to ensure all new XBOXs are bundled with it as standard.
    MS Genuinely view this as an opportunity to extend the 360s life-cycle, as they are essentially doing what Ninty did witht the Wii (It's a gamecube with waggle essentially).

    No new GPU, CPU, no new storage technology - it's a 360 with a new controller.

    Either way it could horribly backfire. They could find that people think it's not acurate enough, it doesn't add any physical feedback in game.

  • Evolution #36 3 years ago

    @The_vorlon_man

    So your prediction there is basically covering every single eventuality?

  • dirk_aircool #37 3 years ago

    autum 2010 . that works out nice , I've just bought my 3rd 360 at an average rate of 15 months life-span . they should name the next console Roy Batty.

  • StooMonster #38 3 years ago

    In my opinion there is no specification bump, simply a die shrink -- cooler, cheaper, more margin -- and maybe a smaller form factor. Natal included and available for all existing Xbox 360 customers is a no-brainer.

    But this initiative will live or die, not on the hardware, but on the software that is available for it. Nintendo were genius bundling Wii Sports with the Wii, Microsoft will have to be similarly smart.

  • StooMonster #39 3 years ago

    @dirk_aircool: quality Blade Runner reference ;)

  • Ryze #40 3 years ago

    A minor hardware update improving framerates and reducing tearing would encourage every enthusiast with a 360 to consider an upgrade, just like the DSi's new features do.

    If they just bundle the 360 with Natal, with nothing to hold onto for sports or shooting games, plus no killer app or decent marketing - this will be met with indifference.

    They better have something BIG to pull out of the hat over the next 12 months - as there's no excitement for EyeToy 2 here, after their ballsup of the1st 360 camera's support...

    edit:

    They need an aiming/pointing controller that (at least) rumbles, and lets me look around (hopefully independently of aim) or I'm not arsed.
    Edited by 1 at 20/06/09 @ 14:16

  • silentbob #41 3 years ago

    Jesus, some of these 'sources' write as if they were dropped on their heads at birth.

  • 3william56 #42 3 years ago

    "A minor hardware update improving framerates and reducing tearing "
    Brilliant - now we can have 360 vs 360 face-offs. \o/ Which one can Richie LB be biased in favour of? His frame buffer will explode with the dilemma.

    Interested how a built in Natal will work - 1:1 3D motion sensing of your ankles FTW. I predict a lot of So You Think You Can Tapdance tie-ins.

    "makes no sense" - Ha! Only if you're not interested in unleashing a swarm of white and green AI killbots on the meatbag population. Microsoft, on the other hand have every reason to unleash their blank eyed, posh voiced techno horror on an unsuspecting population.

  • superdelphinus #43 3 years ago

    any idea what this means?

    "Cosmetic changes: sure, that's possible, but I wouldn't get to married to that"

  • superdelphinus #44 3 years ago

    heh - what this man said

    ""... wouldn't get to married to that..."

    "Too", damn it, "too"! Come on EG, what's going on, between this and the loose/lose debacle I'm starting to lose faith in your standards!"

    this site is going to the dogs, grammar wise

  • superdelphinus #45 3 years ago

    ps - do we pronounce "natal" as in post-natal or kwazulu natal?

  • SaberEdge #46 3 years ago

    I think it is pretty obvious at this point that he was referring to the release of Natal and possible bundled SKUs, not an all new Xbox.

    A new Xbox will come in a couple years, but it will exist alongside the Xbox 360. Microsoft have made their intentions quite clear with respect to supporting the 360 for many years.